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write_v from_o thence_o now_o from_o the_o relation_n of_o this_o story_n and_o your_o practice_n upon_o it_o i_o shall_v propound_v these_o query_n which_o will_v give_v some_o light_n to_o judge_v whether_o there_o be_v any_o sufficiency_n in_o your_o course_n to_o remedy_n and_o redress_v thing_n amiss_o in_o church_n and_o betwixt_o person_n offend_v 1._o whether_o your_o church_n do_v agree_v upon_o and_o tie_v yourselves_o to_o this_o principle_n of_o submission_n and_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n at_o your_o first_o set_v up_o and_o come_v into_o that_o place_n of_o exile_n or_o do_v you_o first_o acknowledge_v it_o and_o be_v willing_a to_o submit_v upon_o the_o occasion_n of_o the_o scandal_n of_o mr_n ward_n depose_v and_o that_o great_a clamour_n upon_o it_o both_o in_o holland_n and_o england_n 2._o whether_o do_v you_o then_o or_o do_v you_o now_o acknowledge_v that_o principle_n of_o submission_n to_o all_o other_o neighbour_n church_n as_o well_o as_o to_o they_o of_o your_o own_o way_n as_o namely_o to_o the_o presbyterian_a church_n those_o english_a church_n at_o amsterdam_n hague_n utrich_n etc._n etc._n and_o will_v you_o have_v submit_v to_o those_o church_n to_o have_v so_o proceed_v upon_o offence_n and_o difference_n among_o you_o 3._o how_o long_o be_v it_o be_v it_o not_o for_o the_o space_n of_o between_o a_o year_n and_o two_o that_o mr_n ward_n stand_v depose_v and_o lay_v aside_o from_o his_o ministry_n and_o maintenance_n before_o he_o be_v restore_v and_o if_o so_o be_v not_o this_o a_o late_a remedy_n and_o iâ—…_n it_o so_o in_o presbyterial_a government_n 4._o when_o and_o at_o what_o time_n be_v this_o principle_n of_o sâ—…bmission_n and_o your_o solemn_a practice_n both_o of_o â—…equiring_v the_o church_n offend_v to_o give_v a_o account_n with_o their_o châ—…arfull_a submit_v
thing_n when_o they_o must_v we_o find_v it_o so_o in_o all_o converse_v with_o man_n and_o good_a man_n be_v man_n there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o difference_n between_o authority_n and_o obedience_n and_o only_a persuasion_n on_o the_o one_o part_n and_o free_a will_n on_o the_o other_o no_o man_n will_v deny_v but_o in_o civil_a matter_n there_o be_v a_o great_a difference_n in_o such_o case_n be_v it_o in_o the_o power_n of_o particular_a member_n in_o your_o church_n to_o submit_v or_o not_o submit_v as_o they_o please_v there_o will_v be_v much_o ado_n to_o remedy_v any_o thing_n as_o will_v be_v betwixt_o church_n differ_v but_o particular_o for_o excommunication_n and_o non-communion_n excommunication_n may_v upon_o these_o ground_n awe_v man_n conscience_n more_o and_o be_v more_o effectual_a than_o non-communion_n 1._o because_o there_o be_v something_o positive_a in_o it_o it_o be_v a_o deliver_v of_o the_o offender_n up_o unto_o satan_n but_o your_o non-communion_n be_v a_o privative_a deprive_v only_o of_o communion_n now_o there_o be_v more_o efficacy_n in_o a_o positive_a then_o in_o a_o privative_a and_o negative_a second_o excommunication_n do_v deprive_v the_o person_n offend_v or_o the_o church_n of_o all_o communion_n among_o themselves_o as_o well_o as_o the_o communion_n of_o other_o church_n whereas_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n do_v but_o take_v other_o church_n off_o from_o communion_n with_o they_o but_o meddle_v not_o to_o debar_v they_o of_o communion_n among_o themselves_o in_o their_o own_o particular_a church_n but_o still_o they_o enjoy_v the_o word_n prayer_n sacrament_n etc._n etc._n which_o be_v a_o great_a difference_n three_o yourselves_o make_v excommunication_n the_o great_a censure_n as_o appear_v by_o your_o own_o phrase_n call_v it_o a_o authoritative_a power_n etc._n etc._n and_o not_o practise_v that_o against_o other_o church_n whereas_o you_o do_v exercise_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o we_o know_v it_o be_v the_o high_a censure_n in_o the_o church_n now_o certain_o the_o great_a censure_n and_o more_o dreadful_a punishment_n according_a to_o christ_n institution_n and_o intention_n be_v more_o effectual_a and_o powerful_a to_o awe_v and_o to_o remedy_v thing_n amiss_o then_o the_o lesser_a and_o low_a censure_n and_o so_o much_o for_o the_o comparison_n in_o the_o ecclesiastical_a proceed_n second_o in_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n you_o grant_v that_o aught_o to_o back_n and_o assist_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o church_n miscarry_v according_a to_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o crime_n and_o you_o give_v more_o as_o you_o think_v to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n in_o matter_n ecclesiastical_a than_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yeâ—…ld_v your_o way_n of_o church_n proceed_v will_v be_v every_o way_n as_o effectual_a as_o the_o presbyterian_o i_o answer_v suppose_v all_o that_o you_o say_v of_o give_v so_o much_o power_n to_o the_o magistrate_n &c_n &c_n be_v true_a yet_o that_o make_v not_o your_o submission_n and_o non-communion_n so_o effectual_a a_o mean_n as_o excommunication_n for_o the_o question_n be_v about_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n and_o spiritual_a power_n and_o about_o spiritual_a mean_n and_o remedy_n for_o the_o conscience_n and_o soul_n and_o not_o about_o civil_a power_n and_o civil_a external_a mean_n and_o i_o will_v ask_v you_o this_o question_n upon_o this_o passage_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n either_o you_o give_v he_o a_o ecclesiastical_a spiritual_a power_n of_o apply_v spiritual_a remedy_n and_o mean_n to_o church_n miscarry_v or_o you_o do_v not_o if_o you_o give_v he_o not_o this_o first_o as_o i_o judge_v your_o principle_n will_v not_o allow_v you_o he_o be_v no_o churchofficer_n of_o christ_n â—…hurch_n but_o only_o christ_n give_v pastor_n teacher_n etc._n etc._n as_o necessary_a and_o sufficient_a for_o the_o government_n of_o his_o church_n than_o all_o you_o say_v of_o the_o magistrate_n help_v you_o not_o it_o be_v nothing_o to_o the_o question_n in_o hand_n but_o before_o i_o speak_v any_o more_o to_o that_o point_n that_o the_o magistrate_n power_n back_v your_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n be_v not_o comparable_a to_o the_o presbyterian_a way_n i_o must_v animadvert_v upon_o the_o passage_n itself_o both_o in_o the_o comparative_a of_o your_o say_n you_o think_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o upon_o the_o positive_a what_o you_o give_v they_o 1._o for_o the_o comparison_n it_o be_v a_o odious_a and_o dangerous_a insinuation_n to_o prepare_v king_n and_o parliament_n to_o reject_v the_o presbytery_n as_o not_o give_v so_o much_o to_o magistrate_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o church_n government_n as_o be_v their_o due_n and_o it_o be_v scandalous_a against_o scotland_n and_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n but_o what_o be_v the_o main_a â—…nd_n of_o it_o or_o what_o may_v be_v conceive_v the_o reason_n of_o your_o say_n you_o give_v so_o much_o to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n and_o more_o than_o the_o presbyterian_o see_v man_n of_o your_o church_n principle_n be_v never_o guilty_a yet_o of_o give_v too_o much_o ecclesiastical_a power_n to_o magistrate_n you_o be_v the_o first_o independent_o and_o this_o be_v the_o first_o time_n that_o ever_o public_o you_o have_v express_v yourselves_o thus_o i_o judge_v you_o be_v politician_n politici_fw-la theologi_fw-la to_o flatter_v the_o parliament_n at_o this_o time_n the_o better_a to_o work_v your_o end_n for_o a_o toleration_n and_o to_o promote_v your_o churchway_n you_o write_v thus_o it_o be_v observe_v by_o learned_a man_n that_o among_o the_o principal_a attempt_n and_o policy_n of_o the_o remonstrant_n whereby_o they_o labour_v to_o bring_v the_o church_n of_o the_o netherlands_o into_o commotion_n and_o to_o obtain_v their_o own_o end_n this_o be_v a_o great_a one_o the_o cry_v up_o the_o power_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n both_o by_o write_v of_o book_n of_o their_o great_a power_n in_o ecclesiastical_n and_o in_o their_o sermon_n every_o where_o and_o their_o asperse_v the_o orthodox_n minister_n and_o their_o lawful_a meeting_n and_o ecclesiastical_a action_n with_o the_o contrary_a and_o among_o many_o other_o particular_n of_o the_o great_a power_n they_o give_v the_o magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_n this_o be_v one_o that_o they_o do_v ascribe_v to_o the_o magistrate_n the_o ultimate_a and_o high_a jurisdiction_n and_o power_n of_o give_v judgement_n in_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n reason_v that_o unto_o the_o magistrate_n alone_o immediate_o under_o christ_n do_v belong_v the_o judgement_n when_o controversy_n of_o faith_n do_v arise_v in_o the_o church_n and_o therefore_o after_o the_o arminian_n despair_v of_o prevail_v by_o the_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n they_o bring_v and_o remove_v their_o cause_n from_o the_o ecclesiastical_a cognizance_n to_o another_o court_n by_o their_o policy_n and_o artifices_fw-la make_v use_n of_o the_o authority_n of_o one_o or_o two_o chief_a man_n in_o place_n to_o work_v for_o they_o and_o that_o this_o new-way_n may_v have_v some_o colour_n and_o that_o so_o much_o the_o more_o easy_o the_o favour_n of_o many_o politician_n or_o at_o least_o a_o toleration_n may_v be_v procure_v for_o these_o arminian_n novelty_n there_o be_v a_o book_n set_v forth_o by_o uttenbogardus_fw-la de_fw-la jure_fw-la supremi_fw-la magistratus_fw-la in_o ecclesiasticis_fw-la many_o other_o of_o the_o arminian_n also_o sing_v the_o same_o song_n as_o episcopius_n print_v a_o disputation_n de_fw-fr jure_fw-la magistratus_fw-la circa_fw-la sacra_fw-la barlaeus_n grotius_n etc._n etc._n and_o beside_o all_o these_o there_o be_v a_o great_a number_n of_o book_n put_v forth_o in_o the_o vulgar_a and_o mother_n tongue_n of_o the_o power_n and_o authority_n of_o the_o magistrate_n and_o thus_o whilst_o the_o magistrate_n let_v the_o arminian_n alonâ—…_n and_o do_v nothing_o against_o they_o even_o till_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n in_o the_o year_n 1618._o they_o slatter_v they_o thus_o but_o after_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n have_v determine_v against_o their_o opinion_n and_o that_o the_o magistrate_n be_v agaiâ—…t_v they_o than_o they_o lift_v up_o the_o heel_n and_o then_o they_o write_v book_n in_o a_o far_a other_o stile_n and_o in_o their_o apology_n that_o power_n which_o before_o they_o have_v so_o liberal_o measure_v out_o for_o they_o they_o do_v not_o a_o little_a limit_n and_o contract_n and_o offend_v as_o much_o in_o the_o defect_n give_v magistrate_n too_o little_a as_o before_o they_o have_v in_o the_o excess_n give_v they_o too_o much_o for_o the_o full_a proof_n of_o this_o i_o refer_v the_o reader_n to_o learned_a erant_fw-la voetius_fw-la select_a disputation_n concern_v that_o question_n penes_fw-la quos_fw-la sit_fw-la potestas_fw-la ecclesiastica_fw-la where_o he_o do_v at_o large_a relate_v this_o and_o their_o opinion_n about_o the_o magistrate_n power_n after_o the_o synod_n
of_o dort_n and_o unto_o ostensum_fw-la vedelius_fw-la de_fw-la episcopatu_fw-la constantini_n magni_fw-la who_o as_o all_o man_n know_v give_v in_o that_o book_n power_n enough_o to_o magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_n yet_o he_o lay_v down_o at_o large_a that_o as_o the_o anabaptist_n and_o socinian_o follow_v the_o donatist_n give_v too_o little_a to_o the_o magistrate_n so_o the_o arminian_n do_v offend_v in_o the_o excess_n for_o before_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n they_o contend_v that_o under_o the_o orthodox_n magistrate_n the_o church_n have_v of_o itself_o no_o spiritual_a power_n the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n do_v perform_v their_o office_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o magistrate_n so_o that_o the_o magistrate_n because_o he_o for_o other_o business_n can_v not_o preach_v etc._n etc._n he_o do_v preach_v by_o the_o minister_n they_o give_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n to_o the_o magistrate_n alone_o they_o give_v the_o call_n of_o minister_n and_o their_o depose_n to_o the_o magistrate_n alone_o with_o many_o other_o such_o but_o afâ—…er_v the_o synod_n they_o deny_v it_o be_v their_o right_n and_o office_n to_o oblige_v man_n by_o their_o authority_n to_o the_o decree_n of_o synod_n however_o agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n or_o to_o use_v any_o coactive_a power_n in_o that_o case_n etc._n etc._n in_o which_o they_o take_v away_o as_o much_o from_o the_o magistrate_n as_o in_o other_o thing_n they_o seem_v to_o give_v and_o it_o may_v be_v fear_v however_o these_o apologist_n now_o to_o ingratiate_v themselves_o and_o be_v leave_v alone_o in_o their_o churchway_n say_v they_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o presbyterial_a and_o that_o they_o profess_v to_o submit_v and_o to_o be_v most_o willing_a to_o have_v recourse_n to_o the_o magistrate_n judgement_n and_o cognizance_n and_o examination_n of_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n yet_o when_o they_o shall_v come_v once_o to_o be_v cross_v and_o the_o parliament_n by_o the_o advice_n of_o the_o assembly_n to_o settle_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n and_o by_o their_o authority_n to_o bind_v they_o to_o the_o thing_n agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n we_o shall_v see_v then_o what_o they_o will_v say_v of_o the_o magistrate_n power_n there_o be_v too_o many_o speech_n already_o since_o the_o meeting_n of_o the_o assembly_n out_o of_o their_o fear_n how_o thing_n may_v go_v which_o have_v fall_v from_o many_o independent_o that_o prognosticate_n they_o will_v do_v by_o the_o parliament_n as_o the_o remonstrant_n do_v after_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n by_o the_o state_n 2._o but_o whatever_o you_o say_v here_o that_o you_o think_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o principle_n suffragamur_fw-la of_o the_o presbyterian_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v i_o do_v much_o doubt_v it_o and_o do_v judge_v that_o in_o many_o thing_n you_o give_v no_o more_o in_o ecclesiastical_n then_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o in_o other_o you_o give_v less_o and_o they_o give_v more_o m._n robinson_n in_o his_o apology_n say_v of_o himself_o and_o his_o church_n that_o in_o the_o point_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o his_o office_n they_o hold_v altogether_o the_o same_o thing_n which_o the_o belgic_a church_n do_v and_o that_o to_o their_o confession_n in_o this_o point_n they_o do_v ex_fw-la animo_fw-la agree_v now_o the_o belgic_a church_n be_v presbyterian_o and_o your_o churchway_n &_o m._n robinson_n differ_v not_o much_o â—…o_o that_o till_o you_o know_v what_o you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n then_o m._n robinson_n and_o his_o church_n do_v i_o can_v believe_v you_o especial_o consider_v that_o m._n burroughes_n one_o of_o you_o in_o his_o lecture_n upon_o hosea_n speak_v of_o the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n in_o church_n affair_n veâ—…_n give_v no_o more_o to_o they_o then_o the_o rigide_a presbyterian_o namely_o that_o the_o king_n be_v supreme_a governor_n to_o govern_v in_o a_o civil_a way_n by_o civil_a law_n so_o as_o to_o sâ—…_n christ_n not_o dishonour_v so_o as_o to_o keep_v out_o idolatry_n to_o protect_v the_o church_n to_o punish_v enormitio_n that_o be_v there_o to_o define_v it_o from_o enemy_n in_o that_o sense_n he_o be_v say_v to_o be_v the_o head_n but_o that_o title_n of_o supreme_a governor_n be_v understand_v in_o a_o civil_a way_n be_v more_o proper_a now_o it_o be_v easy_a out_o of_o beza_n calvin_n zanchius_n and_o many_o presbyterian_o to_o show_v more_o power_n give_v to_o king_n by_o they_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n then_o by_o m._n burroughes_n there_o so_o that_o i_o have_v more_o reason_n to_o judge_v of_o your_o principle_n by_o what_o m._n burroughes_n write_v particular_o and_o by_o way_n of_o answer_v doubt_n of_o conscience_n then_o from_o a_o narrration_n in_o general_a and_o from_o we_o think_v more_o than_o the_o principle_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v in_o other_o thing_n you_o give_v not_o so_o much_o to_o the_o magistrate_n as_o the_o presbyterian_o first_o whereas_o the_o a_o presbyterian_o do_v acknowledge_v the_o protestant_a prince_n and_o magistrate_n a_o eminent_a member_n of_o the_o church_n and_o in_o their_o great_a assembly_n and_o counsel_n give_v he_o a_o eminent_a place_n and_o power_n you_o according_a to_o your_o principle_n do_v not_o own_v he_o for_o a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n neither_o shall_v his_o child_n be_v admit_v to_o baptism_n nor_o he_o to_o the_o ordinance_n though_o a_o protestant_n and_o orthodox_n unless_o you_o account_v he_o a_o visible_a saint_n etc._n etc._n neither_o do_v you_o give_v he_o so_o much_o power_n or_o vote_n no_o not_o in_o a_o particular_a church_n in_o any_o church_n matter_n of_o censure_n admission_n election_n of_o officer_n etc._n etc._n as_o you_o do_v give_v to_o one_o of_o your_o serve_a man_n and_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n and_o his_o child_n though_o bring_v up_o and_o profess_v the_o true_a religion_n may_v be_v and_o will_v be_v keep_v from_o the_o sacrament_n all_o their_o day_n 2._o the_o presbyterian_o give_v to_o the_o magistrate_n a_o coercive_a and_o coactive_a power_n to_o suppress_v heresy_n schism_n to_o correct_v troubler_n and_o unruly_a person_n in_o the_o church_n to_o tie_v and_o bind_v man_n by_o their_o authority_n to_o the_o decree_n of_o synod_n make_v according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o power_n as_o b_o voetius_fw-la show_n only_o the_o remonstrant_n with_o the_o libertine_n do_v not_o admit_v but_o all_o the_o presbyterian_o do_v reject_v such_o opinion_n that_o the_o magistrate_n can_v not_o by_o his_o stringere_fw-la authority_n bind_v and_o compel_v man_n to_o observe_v the_o decree_n of_o synod_n conformable_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n ordinem_fw-la now_o do_v you_o allow_v the_o magistrate_n such_o a_o power_n by_o your_o plead_n for_o toleration_n of_o religion_n and_o for_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n and_o that_o conscience_n be_v not_o to_o be_v tie_v and_o by_o your_o speak_n against_o imposition_n of_o thing_n lawful_a and_o agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n as_o set_v form_n of_o prayer_n decree_v by_o synod_n and_o such_o like_a it_o be_v very_o suspicious_a you_o allow_v not_o such_o a_o power_n to_o magistrate_n and_o your_o good_a friend_n â—…0_n m._n s._n in_o his_o answer_n to_o the_o observation_n and_o consideration_n upon_o your_o apologetical_a narration_n plead_v your_o cause_n deny_v and_o plead_v against_o this_o coercive_a power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n 3._o the_o presbyterian_o give_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o power_n to_o the_o supreme_a christian_a magistrate_n in_o the_o reformation_n of_o religion_n and_o in_o repair_v and_o build_v the_o house_n of_o god_n as_o may_v be_v show_v out_o of_o calvin_n zanchius_n peter_n martyr_n etc._n etc._n but_o whether_o the_o independent_o give_v as_o much_o when_o they_o allow_v private_a man_n to_o gather_v and_o make_v church_n and_o minister_n to_o do_v such_o public_a work_n and_o that_o without_o leave_n nay_o against_o the_o mind_n and_o law_n of_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n i_o question_v there_o be_v a_o tractate_n in_o my_o hand_n about_o a_o church_n that_o go_v under_o the_o name_n of_o one_o of_o you_o wherein_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v cut_v off_o and_o minister_n too_o from_o have_v any_o power_n to_o make_v church_n and_o the_o immediate_a independent_a power_n from_o christ_n be_v give_v to_o the_o saint_n only_o to_o gather_v and_o combine_v themselves_o in_o such_o a_o assembly_n without_o expect_v warrant_n from_o any_o governor_n what_o soever_o upon_o earth_n saint_n as_o saint_n have_v a_o right_n and_o full_a power_n to_o cast_v themselves_o into_o the_o fellowship_n without_o ask_v the_o consent_n of_o governor_n and_o civil_a magistrate_n who_o have_v no_o power_n in_o the_o marriage_n of_o their_o people_n nor_o shall_v have_v it_o be_v a_o act_n of_o natural_a civil_a
complaint_n and_o appeal_n now_o the_o presbyterian_o in_o that_o give_v the_o magistrate_n a_o power_n about_o the_o use_n and_o abuse_v of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n and_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n and_o business_n yea_o and_o definitive_a to_o namely_o a_o political_a objective_n consequent_a power_n which_o may_v be_v diverse_o exercise_v both_o ordinary_o and_o extraordinary_o in_o a_o church_n constitute_v and_o in_o a_o good_a estate_n and_o in_o a_o church_n fall_v and_o corrupt_v voetius_fw-la in_o his_o disputation_n upon_o that_o question_n in_o who_o hand_n the_o ecclesiastical_a 68_o power_n be_v a_o great_a presbyterian_a in_o that_o question_n grant_v and_o give_v to_o the_o magistrate_n a_o public_a judicial_a power_n of_o judge_v not_o only_o with_o the_o judgement_n of_o knowledge_n but_o definitive_a in_o cause_n and_o matter_n ecclesiastical_a which_o judgement_n be_v consequent_a not_o antecedent_n because_o the_o ultimate_a disquisition_n be_v not_o in_o that_o whether_o that_o be_v true_a but_o whether_o they_o will_v by_o public_a authority_n maintain_v and_o execute_v that_o so_o *_o apollonius_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o vedelius_fw-la where_o he_o strong_o plead_v for_o the_o presbyterian_o in_o that_o point_n of_o ecclesiastical_a power_n yet_o give_v much_o to_o the_o magistrate_n ordinary_o in_o a_o church_n constitute_v and_o well_o reform_v in_o the_o point_n of_o this_o part_n of_o power_n and_o extraordinary_o in_o the_o state_n of_o a_o church_n corrupt_v and_o great_o disorder_v when_o the_o doctrine_n be_v corrupt_v and_o the_o sacrament_n contaminate_v with_o idolatrous_a rite_n and_o discipline_n turn_v into_o tyranny_n and_o when_o the_o ministry_n and_o all_o ecclesiastical_a meeting_n both_o inferior_a and_o superior_a conspire_v to_o oppress_v the_o truth_n of_o god_n and_o to_o establish_v tyranny_n in_o the_o church_n in_o such_o case_n the_o magistrate_n may_v do_v many_o thing_n beside_o the_o ordinary_a way_n now_o let_v i_o entreat_v you_o to_o consult_v the_o book_n of_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o especial_o apollonius_n answer_v to_o vedelius_fw-la of_o the_o several_a particular_n of_o the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n about_o the_o use_n and_o abuse_v of_o discipline_n in_o a_o constitute_v church_n beside_o the_o power_n give_v they_o in_o extraordinary_a case_n and_o in_o your_o reply_n to_o this_o answer_n satisfy_v i_o what_o you_o give_v more_o but_o let_v i_o tell_v you_o whatever_o power_n you_o five_o may_v have_v find_v out_o for_o the_o magistrate_n which_o the_o principle_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v not_o suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v some_o new_a power_n may_v be_v like_o that_o devise_n of_o non-communion_n of_o church_n and_o protestation_n to_o all_o church_n that_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a yet_o your_o church_n may_v not_o grant_v it_o and_o so_o the_o magistrate_n shall_v be_v never_o the_o near_o the_o power_n you_o give_v the_o magistrate_n in_o the_o 17._o and_o 19_o pag._n be_v not_o yield_v by_o many_o of_o your_o own_o church_n whereof_o you_o be_v minister_n a_o gentleman_n a_o prime_a member_n of_o one_o of_o your_o church_n immediate_o after_o the_o come_n forth_o of_o your_o apologetical_a narration_n disclaim_v and_o renounce_v that_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n express_v by_o you_o in_o the_o hear_n of_o a_o minister_n a_o member_n of_o the_o assembly_n who_o relate_v it_o to_o i_o but_o what_o be_v it_o wherein_o you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n sure_o there_o be_v something_o you_o mean_v and_o aim_v at_o in_o it_o if_o we_o can_v find_v it_o out_o suffer_v i_o to_o guess_v at_o it_o and_o you_o shall_v see_v though_o you_o do_v not_o formal_o express_v so_o much_o yet_o i_o have_v some_o reason_n to_o judge_v so_o first_o do_v you_o not_o mean_v in_o this_o phrase_n the_o magistrate_n power_n to_o which_o we_o give_v as_o much_o and_o as_o we_o think_v more_o than_o the_o principle_n of_o 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heresy_n schism_n or_o strange_a opinion_n be_v broach_v in_o your_o church_n and_o you_o can_v tell_v what_o to_o do_v with_o they_o nor_o how_o to_o suppress_v they_o nor_o how_o to_o have_v the_o person_n censure_v be_v so_o powerful_a in_o particular_a congregation_n whereof_o they_o be_v member_n in_o such_o a_o case_n you_o give_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n a_o power_n to_o question_v they_o for_o these_o heresy_n schism_n and_o to_o imprison_v banish_v etc._n etc._n if_o they_o do_v not_o revoke_v they_o new-england_n practise_v the_o way_n of_o independency_n and_o not_o have_v class_n synod_n that_o have_v authoritative_a power_n to_o call_v to_o account_v and_o censure_v such_o person_n be_v necessitate_v to_o make_v use_n of_o the_o magistrate_n and_o to_o give_v the_o more_o to_o they_o a_o power_n of_o question_v for_o doctrine_n and_o judge_v of_o error_n and_o punish_v with_o imprisonment_n banishment_n and_o they_o find_v out_o a_o pretty_a fine_a distinction_n to_o deceive_v themselves_o with_o and_o to_o salve_v the_o contrariety_n of_o this_o practice_n to_o some_o other_o principle_n that_o the_o magistrate_n question_v and_o punish_v for_o these_o opinion_n and_o error_n which_o now_o for_o want_n of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n and_o censure_n they_o know_v not_o what_o to_o do_v with_o not_o as_o heresy_n and_o such_o opinion_n but_o as_o breach_n of_o the_o civil_a peace_n and_o disturbance_n to_o the_o commonwealth_n which_o distinction_n if_o the_o parliament_n will_v have_v learn_v from_o you_o and_o proceed_v upon_o they_o may_v long_o ago_o have_v put_v down_o all_o your_o church_n and_o congregation_n and_o just_o have_v deal_v with_o you_o as_o the_o magistrate_n in_o new-england_n do_v with_o mr_n williams_n and_o the_o antinomian_o familist_n and_o anabaptist_n there_o and_o yet_o have_v say_v they_o punish_v you_o not_o for_o your_o conscience_n nor_o because_o of_o such_o opinion_n but_o because_o your_o opinion_n way_n and_o practice_n be_v a_o occasion_n of_o much_o hurt_n to_o the_o commonwealth_n a_o breach_n of_o civil_a peace_n a_o great_a cause_n of_o many_o people_n sit_v so_o loose_a from_o the_o parliament_n a_o great_a hindrance_n to_o the_o reformation_n and_o a_o ground_n of_o much_o distraction_n to_o the_o public_a and_o of_o strengthen_v the_o enemy_n whereas_o the_o presbyterian_o give_v the_o power_n in_o case_n of_o heresy_n error_n etc._n etc._n that_o be_v not_o remedy_v in_o the_o particular_a congregation_n to_o class_n synod_n assembly_n to_o question_v convince_v judge_v of_o censure_n and_o to_o apply_v spiritual_a remedy_n proper_a to_o spiritual_a disease_n which_o i_o be_o confident_a of_o have_v such_o be_v in_o new-england_n in_o the_o presbyterial_a way_n there_o have_v never_o be_v so_o many_o imprison_v banish_v for_o error_n nor_o the_o magistrate_n put_v upon_o that_o distinction_n or_o three_o be_v it_o that_o you_o do_v give_v a_o power_n to_o the_o magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_a thing_n of_o the_o ultimate_a determination_n of_o matter_n pure_o ecclesiastical_a which_o the_o presbyterian_o principle_n do_v not_o as_o now_o in_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n and_o in_o matter_n of_o scandal_n and_o in_o matter_n of_o censure_n excommunication_n deposition_n etc._n etc._n which_o be_v bring_v before_o and_o have_v pass_v in_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n to_o appeal_v from_o they_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o to_o carry_v cause_n from_o thence_o to_o civil_a court_n to_o repeal_v and_o revoke_v they_o your_o word_n and_o passage_n about_o the_o magistrate_n power_n imply_v this_o and_o i_o find_v that_o many_o quick_a sight_a man_n as_o the_o walachrian_a classis_fw-la nay_o a_o whole_a synod_n after_o they_o in_o their_o late_a letter_n to_o the_o assembly_n apprehend_v you_o so_o and_o therefore_o i_o may_v upon_o good_a ground_n judge_v beside_o the_o two_o former_a that_o you_o aim_v at_o this_o three_o in_o say_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n then_o the_o presbyterian_o
whatever_o any_o of_o your_o way_n can_v say_v for_o it_o second_o when_o a_o assembly_n be_v first_o agree_v upon_o there_o be_v not_o many_o more_o minister_n and_o scholar_n of_o your_o way_n in_o the_o kingdom_n who_o be_v capable_a of_o such_o a_o service_n how_o ever_o you_o may_v be_v increase_v since_o so_o that_o you_o have_v as_o much_o advantage_n as_o your_o condition_n be_v capable_a of_o yea_o and_o favour_n too_o three_o consider_v the_o many_o hundred_o minister_n in_o this_o kingdom_n that_o petition_v for_o reformation_n and_o subscribe_v the_o remonstrance_n who_o also_o bear_v the_o heat_n of_o the_o day_n and_o never_o flinch_v for_o it_o and_o the_o small_a number_n of_o the_o independent_a who_o flee_v also_o to_o save_v their_o stake_n and_o to_o keep_v in_o a_o whole_a skin_n have_v quit_v to_o our_o church_n and_o ministry_n and_o make_v no_o account_n to_o be_v bind_v by_o the_o determination_n of_o the_o assembly_n it_o be_v more_o in_o proportion_n both_o arithmetical_a and_o geometrical_a to_o have_v ten_o of_o you_o member_n in_o the_o assembly_n than_o some_o hundred_o of_o our_o minister_n and_o yet_o you_o know_v the_o whole_a number_n of_o divine_n who_o meet_v there_o do_v not_o much_o exceed_v 80_o person_n four_o number_n be_v little_a where_o conscientious_a man_n have_v take_v such_o a_o protestation_n come_v together_o to_o seek_v out_o truth_n be_v free_a also_o to_o receive_v and_o choose_v any_o government_n lay_v down_o in_o the_o word_n and_o not_o overawe_v by_o power_n or_o fear_v of_o crush_a nor_o byase_v by_o hope_n of_o preferment_n it_o be_v true_a in_o such_o a_o assembly_n as_o the_o convocation_n house_n of_o bishop_n and_o their_o clerk_n be_v number_n be_v a_o great_a disadvantage_n second_o for_o ability_n of_o learning_n i_o grant_v you_o there_o be_v many_o member_n of_o the_o assembly_n go_v far_o beyond_o any_o of_o you_o in_o that_o yet_o among_o you_o all_o and_o in_o some_o particular_a man_n of_o you_o there_o be_v ability_n enough_o of_o learning_n speech_n and_o wit_n to_o bring_v out_o and_o enforce_v to_o the_o great_a advantage_n upon_o study_n take_v time_n which_o you_o do_v and_o write_v down_o your_o ground_n any_o scripture_n or_o reason_n for_o your_o way_n so_o that_o you_o need_v not_o complain_v for_o want_v of_o learning_n but_o rather_o for_o want_v of_o truth_n in_o your_o cause_n which_o will_v afford_v no_o better_a argument_n for_o it_o three_o for_o authority_n i_o know_v not_o well_o what_o you_o mean_v by_o that_o in_o this_o place_n you_o have_v so_o many_o doubtful_a passage_n in_o your_o apology_n whether_o the_o authority_n of_o parliament_n or_o whether_o the_o minister_n who_o be_v for_o presbytery_n have_v great_a authority_n in_o the_o assembly_n than_o you_o or_o what_o else_o now_o if_o you_o mean_v the_o first_o that_o the_o presbyterian_a party_n have_v the_o advantage_n of_o you_o namely_o the_o authority_n of_o parliament_n i_o answer_v the_o parliament_n interpose_v no_o authority_n to_o determine_v what_o government_n shall_v be_v but_o call_v the_o assembly_n to_o advise_v with_o and_o draw_v up_o for_o they_o what_o government_n be_v most_o agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n give_v also_o a_o liberty_n to_o the_o few_o number_n in_o matter_n of_o dissent_n to_o give_v in_o their_o reason_n as_o you_o in_o the_o 30_o page_n grant_v and_o imply_v you_o will_v do_v and_o as_o for_o the_o parliament_n who_o be_v authority_n there_o be_v but_o few_o minister_n of_o the_o assembly_n who_o have_v be_v able_a to_o do_v more_o with_o they_o than_o you_o or_o who_o have_v have_v a_o great_a interest_n in_o their_o favour_n then_o yourselves_o witness_v all_o passage_n of_o parliament_n from_o first_o to_o last_o wherein_o the_o parliament_n have_v honour_v any_o of_o the_o minister_n either_o in_o preach_v before_o they_o upon_o solemn_a occasion_n or_o in_o call_v this_o assembly_n or_o in_o employ_v they_o about_o the_o scottish_a affair_n either_o in_o englaâ—…d_n or_o into_o scotland_n or_o in_o the_o set_n up_o a_o lecture_n at_o westminster_n or_o in_o appoint_v licenser_n for_o print_v of_o book_n what_o ever_o it_o have_v be_v or_o how_o few_o the_o number_n that_o have_v be_v employ_v though_o but_o two_o or_o three_o yet_o still_o a_o independent_a have_v be_v one_o but_o second_o if_o you_o mean_v that_o the_o minister_n who_o differ_v in_o judgement_n from_o you_o have_v a_o great_a authority_n in_o the_o assembly_n than_o you_o i_o answer_v you_o be_v all_o equal_a have_v a_o brotherly_a equality_n there_o the_o whole_a assembly_n not_o have_v authority_n that_o be_v jurisdiction_n and_o power_n of_o censure_n over_o the_o mean_a to_o cast_v he_o out_o or_o to_o hinder_v he_o from_o speech_n according_a to_o rule_v and_o order_n and_o as_o for_o authority_n of_o speak_v in_o the_o assembly_n and_o of_o be_v hear_v some_o of_o you_o have_v exercise_v as_o much_o of_o that_o as_o most_o there_o and_o for_o authority_n with_o the_o people_n to_o lead_v they_o whether_o you_o or_o most_o of_o the_o minister_n in_o the_o assembly_n have_v the_o great_a be_v no_o controversy_n witness_v the_o deep_a censure_n upon_o the_o assembly_n and_o the_o godly_a minister_n every_o where_o by_o multitude_n of_o the_o people_n but_o the_o great_a applause_n and_o cry_v up_o of_o you_o and_o other_o independent_o so_o that_o if_o authority_n with_o many_o well_o mean_v people_n be_v a_o advantge_n it_o be_v on_o your_o side_n and_o that_o have_v do_v you_o heretofore_o some_o service_n to_o make_v many_o man_n more_o rich_a of_o preach_v against_o your_o way_n because_o of_o your_o great_a authority_n with_o the_o people_n that_o be_v ground_n enough_o to_o put_v many_o man_n out_o of_o the_o state_n of_o grace_n with_o some_o sort_n of_o people_n beside_o â—…f_a authority_n in_o the_o people_n heart_n can_v sway_v any_o thing_n with_o the_o assembly_n against_o the_o truth_n yea_o 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pure_a in_o doctrine_n etc._n etc._n the_o other_o make_v minister_n and_o people_n turn_v arminian_n socinian_o etc._n etc._n 2_o answ._n there_o be_v another_o reason_n why_o it_o may_v so_o fall_v out_o in_o the_o low-countries_n because_o presbyterial_a government_n have_v not_o its_o free_a course_n there_o in_o synod_n but_o it_o be_v much_o disturb_v over_o it_o be_v in_o france_n geneva_n scotland_n whereas_o by_o their_o canon_n and_o constitution_n in_o the_o netherlands_o there_o shall_v be_v a_o national_n synod_n once_o in_o three_o year_n they_o have_v not_o nor_o can_v procure_v one_o in_o twenty_o year_n and_o upward_o and_o whereas_o provincial_n synod_n shall_v be_v yearly_o they_o have_v they_o in_o some_o province_n but_o once_o in_o five_o and_o seven_o year_n beside_o there_o be_v other_o disturbance_n in_o presbyterial_a government_n which_o hinder_v the_o free_a course_n of_o it_o in_o holland_n many_o encroachment_n be_v make_v upon_o the_o right_n of_o their_o church_n due_a to_o they_o by_o virtue_n of_o their_o discipline_n and_o heretofore_o establish_v in_o a_o word_n that_o anabaptisticall_a and_o familisticall_a spirit_n in_o many_o and_o that_o corrupt_a spirit_n and_o principle_n in_o other_o with_o those_o principle_n of_o toleration_n do_v much_o check_n and_o stop_v presbyterial_a government_n from_o have_v its_o perfect_a work_n and_o bring_v forth_o its_o full_a effect_n the_o true_a reason_n of_o so_o many_o minister_n and_o people_n turn_v arminian_n and_o socinian_o in_o the_o low-countries_n be_v the_o want_n of_o synod_n which_o arminius_n and_o his_o follower_n always_o decline_v and_o by_o flatter_v the_o magistrate_n keep_v off_o for_o many_o year_n in_o which_o time_n so_o many_o fell_a whereas_o if_o presbyterial_a government_n have_v have_v its_o course_n and_o a_o national_n synod_n have_v be_v call_v yea_o but_o a_o provincial_n for_o the_o arminian_n to_o have_v answer_v in_o at_o first_o before_o it_o have_v so_o much_o
as_o they_o see_v just_a ground_n the_o controversy_n be_v at_o a_o end_n 4._o the_o corporation_n that_o be_v those_o in_o place_n and_o power_n if_o they_o proceed_v unjust_o be_v accountable_a to_o the_o state_n they_o live_v in_o that_o be_v to_o a_o high_a civil_a power_n and_o adjudge_v themselves_o in_o case_n of_o wrong_n condemn_v the_o innocent_a suffer_v delinquent_n to_o escape_n but_o your_o corporation_n of_o particular_a congregation_n even_o in_o case_n of_o real_a administration_n be_v against_o all_o judge_a and_o all_o ecclesiastical_a authoritative_a power_n out_o of_o your_o own_o congregation_n to_o the_o five_o reason_n hint_v by_o you_o to_o strengthen_v your_o practice_n that_o it_o be_v safe_a and_o allow_v and_o the_o reform_a church_n more_o questionable_a namely_o appeal_n to_o they_o who_o have_v read_v book_n whether_o much_o have_v be_v write_v with_o strength_n set_o and_o direct_o to_o prove_v that_o government_n but_o rather_o to_o overthrow_v episcopal_a and_o to_o maintain_v those_o several_a officer_n in_o church_n which_o christ_n have_v institute_v and_o therefore_o you_o infer_v you_o may_v have_v more_o ground_n to_o question_v this_o government_n of_o combine_a classical_a presbyterial_a government_n i_o answer_v the_o ground_n of_o that_o be_v full_o lay_v down_o in_o the_o reformation_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n page_n 17_o and_o 18._o with_o a_o account_n of_o what_o have_v be_v write_v and_o do_v by_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o france_n for_o the_o presbyterial_a way_n and_o against_o the_o popular_a independent_a way_n which_o be_v more_o than_o you_o once_o in_o this_o reason_n hint_v but_o suppose_v that_o in_o former_a write_n of_o calvin_n beza_n zanchius_n peter_n martyr_n danaeus_n junius_n zeppâ—…rus_n gersom_a bucerus_n dr_n reynolds_n parker_n there_o have_v not_o be_v much_o set_o and_o direct_o insist_v on_o and_o with_o strength_n to_o prove_v the_o government_n of_o synod_n and_o class_n 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congregation_n and_o the_o toleration_n of_o they_o in_o this_o kingdom_n which_o book_n in_o your_o seem_a to_o take_v no_o notice_n of_o i_o believe_v you_o remember_v above_o the_o rest_n and_o in_o the_o 25_o page_n of_o your_o apology_n it_o appear_v you_o remember_v it_o but_o the_o author_n of_o it_o belike_o be_v none_o of_o your_o divine_n and_o in_o the_o close_a now_o of_o this_o answer_n to_o your_o reason_n hint_v about_o the_o government_n and_o discipline_n of_o the_o church_n why_o you_o in_o your_o congregationall_a way_n shall_v be_v in_o the_o truth_n but_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n be_v a_o question_n to_o you_o and_o judge_v a_o additament_n because_o the_o presbyterian_o allow_v you_o what_o you_o practise_v and_o grant_v what_o you_o hold_v but_o themselves_o hold_v and_o practise_v over_o and_o above_o i_o answer_v this_o be_v no_o argument_n at_o all_o for_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n the_o samaritan_n shall_v have_v worship_v god_n true_o but_o the_o jew_n false_o and_o the_o samaritan_n may_v have_v 22._o say_v to_o the_o jew_n as_o you_o do_v to_o the_o presbyteriann_n the_o five_o book_n of_o moses_n which_o we_o own_v to_o be_v sure_a they_o be_v from_o god_n you_o acknowledge_v they_o but_o for_o the_o book_n of_o the_o prophet_n that_o be_v a_o question_n which_o rest_v upon_o you_o that_o allow_v what_o we_o hold_v to_o make_v evident_a and_o demonstrate_v and_o so_o the_o jew_n may_v now_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n speak_v against_o the_o christian_n and_o say_v we_o be_v in_o the_o safe_a way_n to_o be_v sure_a we_o practise_v safe_o for_o you_o christian_n confess_v what_o we_o hold_v namely_o moses_n and_o the_o prophet_n to_o be_v the_o scripture_n but_o for_o the_o new_a testament_n that_o be_v to_o we_o a_o question_n and_o a_o additament_n which_o therefore_o rest_v upon_o you_o christian_n to_o make_v good_a who_o believe_v and_o practice_v over_o and_o above_o we_o and_o whereas_o the_o common_a prejudice_n and_o exception_n lay_v into_o all_o apolog._n man_n thought_n against_o we_o and_o our_o opinion_n be_v that_o in_o such_o a_o congregationall_a government_n thus_o entire_a within_o itself_o there_o be_v no_o allow_v sufficient_a remedy_n for_o miscarriage_n though_o never_o so_o grossâ—…_n no_o relief_n for_o wrongful_a sentence_n or_o person_n injure_v thereby_o no_o room_n for_o complaint_n no_o powerful_a or_o effectual_a mean_n to_o reduce_v a_o church_n or_o church_n that_o fall_v into_o heresy_n schism_n etc._n etc._n but_o every_o one_o be_v leave_v and_o may_v take_v liberty_n without_o control_n to_o do_v what_o be_v good_a in_o their_o own_o eye_n we_o have_v through_o the_o good_a providence_n of_o god_n upon_o we_o from_o the_o avow_a declaration_n of_o our_o judgement_n among_o our_o church_n mutual_o during_o our_o exile_n and_o that_o also_o confirm_v by_o the_o most_o solemn_a instance_n of_o our_o practice_n wherewith_o to_o vindicate_v ourselves_o and_o way_n in_o this_o particular_a which_o upon_o no_o other_o occasion_n we_o shall_v ever_o have_v make_v thus_o public_a god_n so_o order_v it_o that_o a_o scandal_n and_o offence_n fall_v out_o between_o those_o very_a church_n whilst_o live_v in_o this_o banishment_n whereof_o we_o ourselves_o that_o write_v these_o thing_n be_v then_o the_o minister_n one_o of_o our_o church_n have_v unhappy_o depose_v one_o of_o their_o minister_n the_o other_o judge_v it_o not_o only_o as_o too_o sudden_a a_o act_n have_v proceed_v in_o a_o matter_n of_o so_o great_a moment_n without_o â—…nsulting_v their_o sister_n church_n as_o be_v public_o profess_v we_o shall_v have_v do_v in_o such_o case_n of_o concernment_n but_o also_o in_o the_o proceed_n thereof_o as_o too_o severe_a and_o not_o manage_v according_a to_o the_o rule_v lay_v down_o in_o the_o word_n in_o this_o case_n our_o church_n do_v mutual_o and_o universal_o acknowledge_v and_o submit_v to_o this_o as_o a_o sacred_a and_o undoubted_a principle_n and_o supreme_a law_n to_o be_v observe_v among_o all_o church_n that_o as_o by_o virtue_n of_o that_o apostolical_a command_n church_n as_o well_o as_o particular_a man_n be_v bind_v to_o give_v no_o offence_n neither_o to_o jew_n nor_o gentile_a nor_o the_o church_n of_o god_n they_o live_v among_o so_o that_o in_o all_o case_n of_o such_o offence_n or_o difference_n by_o the_o obligation_n of_o the_o common_a law_n of_o communion_n of_o church_n and_o for_o the_o vindication_n of_o the_o glory_n of_o christ_n which_o in_o common_a they_o holdforth_o the_o church_n or_o church_n challenge_v to_o offend_v or_o differ_v be_v to_o submit_v themselves_o upon_o the_o challenge_n of_o the_o offence_n or_o complaint_n of_o the_o person_n wrong_v to_o the_o most_o full_a and_o open_a trial_n and_o examination_n by_o other_o neighbour_n church_n offend_v thereat_o of_o what_o ever_o have_v give_v the_o offence_n and_o further_o that_o by_o virtue_n of_o the_o same_o and_o like_a law_n of_o not_o partake_v in_o other_o man_n sin_n the_o church_n offend_v may_n and_o aught_o upon_o the_o impenitency_n of_o those_o church_n persist_v in_o their_o error_n and_o miscarriage_n to_o pronounce_v that_o heavy_a sentence_n against_o they_o of_o withdraw_a and_o renounce_v all_o christian_a communion_n with_o they_o until_o they_o do_v repent_v and_o further_o to_o declare_v and_o protest_v this_o with_o the_o cause_n thereof_o to_o all_o other_o church_n of_o christ_n that_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a and_o what_o further_a authority_n or_o proceed_n pure_o ecclesiastical_a of_o one_o or_o many_o sister_n church_n towards_o another_o whole_a church_n or_o church_n offend_v either_o the_o scripture_n do_v holdforth_o or_o can_v rational_o be_v put_v in_o execution_n without_o the_o magistrate_n interpose_v a_o power_n of_o another_o nature_n unto_o which_o we_o upon_o his_o particular_a cognisance_n and_o examination_n of_o such_o cause_n profess_v ever_o to_o submit_v and_o also_o to_o
be_v most_o willing_a to_o have_v recourse_n unto_o for_o our_o part_n we_o see_v not_o then_o nor_o do_v yet_o see_v and_o likewise_o we_o do_v then_o suppose_v and_o do_v yet_o that_o this_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n that_o miscarry_v unto_o other_o church_n offend_v together_o with_o this_o other_o that_o it_o be_v a_o command_n from_o christ_n enjoin_v to_o church_n that_o be_v final_o offend_v to_o pronounce_v such_o a_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o withdraw_n from_o they_o while_o impenitent_a ac_fw-la unworthy_a to_o hold_v forth_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n these_o principle_n be_v receive_v and_o general_o acknowledge_v by_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n to_o be_v a_o mutual_a duty_n as_o strict_o enjoin_v they_o by_o christ_n as_o any_o other_o that_o these_o will_v be_v as_o effectual_a mean_n through_o the_o blessing_n of_o christ_n to_o awe_v and_o preserve_v church_n and_o their_o elder_n in_o their_o duty_n as_o that_o other_o of_o claim_n to_o a_o authoritative_a power_n ecclesiastical_a to_o excommunicate_v other_o church_n or_o their_o elder_n offend_v for_o if_o the_o one_o be_v compare_v with_o the_o other_o in_o a_o mere_a ecclesiastical_a notion_n that_o of_o excommunication_n pretend_v have_v but_o this_o more_o in_o it_o that_o it_o be_v a_o deliver_v of_o whole_a church_n and_o their_o elder_n offend_v unto_o satan_n for_o which_o we_o know_v no_o warrant_n in_o the_o scripture_n that_o church_n shall_v have_v such_o a_o power_n over_o other_o church_n and_o then_o as_o for_o the_o bind_a obligation_n both_o of_o the_o one_o way_n and_o the_o other_o it_o can_v be_v suppose_v to_o lie_v but_o in_o these_o two_o thing_n first_o in_o a_o warrant_n and_o injunction_n give_v by_o christ_n to_o his_o church_n to_o put_v either_o the_o one_o or_o the_o other_o into_o execution_n and_o second_o that_o man_n conscience_n be_v according_o take_v therewith_o so_o as_o to_o subject_v themselves_o whether_o unto_o the_o one_o way_n or_o the_o other_o for_o suppose_v that_o other_o principle_n of_o a_o authoritative_a power_n in_o the_o great_a part_n of_o church_n combine_v to_o excommunicate_v other_o church_n etc._n etc._n to_o be_v the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n yet_o unless_o it_o do_v take_v hold_v of_o man_n conscience_n and_o be_v receive_v among_o all_o church_n the_o offend_a church_n will_v state_n all_o such_o excommunication_n as_o much_o as_o they_o may_v be_v suppose_v to_o do_v our_o way_n of_o protestation_n and_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n on_o the_o other_o side_n let_v this_o way_n of_o we_o be_v but_o as_o strong_o entertain_v as_o that_o which_o be_v the_o way_n and_o command_v of_o christ_n and_o upon_o all_o occasion_n be_v heedful_o put_v in_o execution_n it_o will_v awe_v man_n conscience_n as_o much_o and_o produce_v the_o same_o effect_n and_o if_o the_o magistrate_n power_n to_o which_o we_o give_v as_o much_o and_o as_o we_o think_v more_o than_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v do_v but_o assist_v and_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o other_o church_n denounce_v this_o non-communion_n against_o church_n miscarry_v according_a to_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o crime_n as_o they_o judge_v meet_v and_o as_o they_o will_v the_o sentence_n of_o church_n excommunicate_v other_o church_n in_o such_o case_n upon_o their_o own_o particular_a judgement_n of_o the_o cause_n then_o without_o all_o controversy_n this_o our_o way_n of_o church_n proceed_v will_v be_v every_o way_n as_o effectual_a as_o their_o other_o can_v be_v suppose_v to_o be_v and_o we_o be_v sure_a more_o brotherly_a and_o morâ—…_n suit_v to_o that_o liberty_n and_o equality_n christ_n have_v endow_v his_o church_n with_o but_o without_o the_o magistrate_n interpose_v their_o authority_n their_o way_n of_o proceed_v will_v be_v as_o ineffectual_a as_o we_o and_o more_o liable_a to_o contempt_n by_o how_o much_o it_o be_v pretend_v to_o be_v more_o authoritative_a and_o to_o inflict_v a_o more_o dreadful_a punishment_n which_o carnal_a spirit_n be_v seldom_o sensible_a of_o this_o for_o our_o judgement_n and_o for_o a_o real_a evidence_n and_o demonstration_n both_o that_o this_o be_v then_o our_o judgement_n as_o likewise_o for_o a_o instance_n of_o the_o effectual_a success_n of_o such_o a_o course_n hold_v by_o church_n in_o such_o case_n our_o own_o practice_n and_o the_o blessing_n of_o god_n thereon_o may_v plead_v and_o testify_v for_o we_o to_o all_o the_o world_n the_o manage_n of_o this_o transaction_n in_o brief_n be_v this_o that_o church_n which_o with_o other_o be_v most_o scandalize_v do_v by_o letter_n declare_v their_o offence_n require_v of_o the_o church_n suppose_v to_o be_v offend_v in_o the_o name_n and_o for_o the_o vindication_n of_o the_o honour_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o relieve_v the_o party_n wrong_v to_o yield_v a_o full_a and_o public_a hear_n before_o all_o the_o church_n of_o our_o nation_n or_o any_o other_o whosoever_o offend_v of_o what_o they_o can_v give_v in_o charge_n against_o their_o proceed_n in_o that_o deposition_n of_o their_o minister_n and_o to_o subject_n themselves_o to_o a_o open_a trial_n and_o review_v of_o all_o those_o forepast_a carriage_n that_o concern_v that_o particular_a which_o they_o most_o cheerful_o and_o ready_o according_a to_o the_o forementioned_a principle_n submit_v unto_o in_o a_o place_n and_o state_n where_o no_o outward_a violence_n or_o any_o other_o external_a authority_n either_o civil_a or_o ecclesiastical_a will_v have_v enforce_v they_o thereunto_o and_o according_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n offend_v with_o other_o two_o gentleman_n of_o much_o worth_n wisdom_n and_o piety_n member_n thereof_o be_v send_v as_o messenger_n from_o that_o church_n and_o at_o the_o introduction_n and_o entrance_v into_o that_o solemn_a assembly_n the_o solemnity_n of_o which_o have_v leave_v as_o deep_a a_o impression_n upon_o our_o heart_n of_o christ_n dreadful_a presence_n as_o ever_o any_o we_o have_v be_v present_a at_o it_o be_v open_o and_o public_o process_v in_o a_o speech_n that_o be_v the_o preface_n to_o that_o discussion_n to_o this_o effect_n that_o it_o be_v the_o most_o to_o be_v abhor_v maxim_n that_o any_o religion_n have_v ever_o make_v profession_n of_o and_o therefore_o of_o all_o other_o the_o most_o contradictory_n and_o dishonourable_a unto_o that_o of_o christianity_n that_o a_o single_a and_o particular_a society_n of_o man_n profess_v the_o name_n of_o christ_n and_o pretend_v to_o be_v endow_v with_o a_o power_n from_o christ_n to_o judge_v they_o that_o be_v of_o the_o same_o body_n and_o society_n within_o themselves_o shall_v further_o arrogate_v unto_o themselves_o a_o exemption_n from_o give_v account_n or_o be_v censurable_a by_o any_o other_o either_o christian_a magistrate_n above_o they_o or_o neighbour_n church_n about_o they_o so_o far_o be_v our_o judgement_n from_o that_o independent_a liberty_n that_o be_v impute_v to_o we_o then_o when_o we_o have_v least_o dependency_n on_o this_o kingdom_n or_o so_o much_o as_o hope_n ever_o to_o abide_v therein_o in_o peace_n and_o for_o the_o issue_n and_o success_n of_o this_o agitation_n after_o there_o have_v be_v for_o many_o day_n as_o judiciary_n and_o full_a a_o charge_n trial_n and_o deposition_n of_o witness_n open_o afore_o all_o comer_n of_o all_o sort_n as_o can_v be_v expect_v in_o any_o court_n where_o authority_n enjoin_v it_o that_o church_n which_o have_v offend_v do_v as_o public_o acknowledge_v their_o sinful_a aberration_n in_o it_o restore_v their_o minister_n to_o his_o place_n again_o and_o order_v a_o solemn_a day_n of_o fast_v to_o humble_v themselves_o afore_o god_n and_o man_n for_o their_o sinful_a carriage_n in_o it_o and_o the_o party_n also_o which_o have_v be_v depose_v do_v acknowledge_v to_o that_o church_n wherein_o he_o have_v likewise_o sin_v in_o this_o part_n of_o your_o apology_n be_v contain_v the_o four_o and_o five_o of_o those_o five_o forementioned_a head_n unto_o which_o i_o refer_v all_o i_o shall_v answer_v to_o what_o you_o say_v upon_o your_o three_o and_o last_o instance_n about_o the_o government_n and_o discipline_n in_o the_o church_n the_o scope_n of_o which_o four_o head_n be_v to_o answer_v and_o take_v off_o a_o common_a objection_n bring_v against_o your_o way_n the_o strength_n of_o which_o answer_n be_v make_v up_o of_o those_o part_n and_o stand_v in_o these_o particular_n first_o in_o lay_v down_o your_o own_o principle_n which_o you_o hold_v in_o such_o a_o case_n second_o your_o practice_n according_a to_o those_o principle_n occasion_v upon_o a_o offence_n commit_v in_o one_o of_o your_o church_n which_o story_n you_o brief_o relate_v three_o the_o success_n and_o effectualness_n of_o your_o practice_n according_a to_o your_o principle_n illustrate_v by_o a_o instance_n now_o for_o that_o common_a