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A87135 Politicaster or, a comical discourse, in answer unto Mr. Wren's book, intituled, Monarchy asserted, against Mr. Harrington's Oceana. / By J.H. Harrington, James, 1611-1677. 1659 (1659) Wing H818A; Thomason E2112_2; ESTC R212655 19,838 56

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by King Lords and Commons which is the more modern is so plain that you are put unto a shift who can say no more then that I make Janotti authour of the division of Prudence into ancient and modern How dare you you for your reputation do thus Mr. Wren while first by your own acknowledgment I infer this division from more ancient Authors as Thucydides and Florus and secondly my words relating unto Janotti do no where from him derive the division of Prudence into ancient and modern as to those terms upon which runneth your equivocation but fortifie this division of my own by the two periods of time by him observed and that are of like sense with these terms But Mr. Wren there was never the like of you VVhereas the Question by me proposed was VVhether Prudence be not rightly divided into ancient and modern you have conveyed it into a Question whether Monarchy be not a more ancient Government then a Commonwealth This have I hitherto not disputed as that which concerneth not the present Controversie but seeing it may be for your service I do flatly deny that Monarchy is the more ancient Government not that Mr. Hobbes holdeth Democracie to be of all Governments the first in order of time but first because upon the place where it is said That Nimrod was a mighty hunter before the Lord it is resolved by Divines that Nimrod was the first Monarch Now Sir Nimrod began his reign about the One thousand eight hundredth year of the world whence I conclude thus Either the world had no Government till Nimrod or a Commonwealth may be above a thousand years elder then Monarchy Nay unless you can finde some Government that was neither a Common-wealth nor a Monarchy must have been no less I know what you will say That the Government till Nimrod was by fathers of families why so I hope you will yeild it was afterwards at least in the line of Shem. Now let us compute from Noah and consider in the posterity of Shem what judgment may be made of the Government by fathers of families or whether this were indeed as Divines affirm Monarchical or may not much rather be esteemed popular Noah had three Sons Shem Ham and Japhet of Shem by Arphaxad and others descended Reu of Reu Serug of Serug Nahor of Nahor Terah of Terah Abram of Abraham Isaac of Isaac Jacob and of Jacob descended the Commonwealth of Israel So much for the elder brother which was Shem. Now Sir for the second son of Noah that is Ham of Ham descended Cush and of Cush Nimrod by which plain it is at the first sight that the Commonwealth as to precedence in dignity is of the elder house and as to precedence in time unless you can shew the descendents of Shem to have been under Monarchy must also have been the more ancient Government that is if Government by fathers of families were popular Now as to this it is a tradition with the Rabbins that there were seven precepts delivered to the children of Noah 1. Concerning Judicatories 2. Concerning Blasphemy 3. Concerning perverse worship 4. Concerning uncovering of nakedness 5. Concerning the shedding of mans blood 6. Concerning rapine or theft 7. Concerning eating of things strangled or of a member torn from a living creature This tradition throughout the Jewish Government is undoubted for to such as held these precepts and no more they gave not onely as I may say toleration but allowed them to come so near unto the temple as the gates and called them Proselytes of the gates Nor do I think the proof in Scripture of these precepts though not set down together to be obscure as where it is said None of you shall approach to any that is near kin to him to uncover their nakedness for in all these the Nations that is the Canaanites are defiled which I cast out before you The Canaanites were descended from Ham and that in these words it must be implyed that they had violated the foregoing precepts is in my judgment evident seeing there is nothing in the Law of Nature why a man might not approach in this manner unto one that is near of kin to him Again that two other of these precepts were given by God unto Noah the Scripture is plain where he saith Flesh with the life thereof which is the blood thereof shall you not eat And whoso sheddeth mans blood by man shall his blood be shed VVhence it must follow that either fathers of families were not subject unto this Law which because it is given generally and without any exception were absurd to think or else that during Patriarchal Government they subjected themselves unto some common Judicatories according unto the first of the seven precepts Of which saith Maimonides By this the sons of Noah constituted Judges in every City to judge of the other six precepts and to govern the people and the Gemara Babylonia saith That this was done after the manner that Moses commanded Judges to be set in the gates throughout the tribes By the advice of Jethro to Moses the like should have been the custome of the Midianites who as also the Gibeonites descended of the same line with the Monarchy of Nimrod and for ought perhaps to the contrary of as ancient standing were a Common-wealth But above all it should seem by some of the Rabbines that there was a Consistory or Senate instituted by Shem which was of use with his posterity Now if Patriarchal Government was exercised by or under the common Ligament of a Senate or Consistory then was the Government of the Patriarchs of a popular nature or a Commonwealth at least these Mr. Wren must be disproved by them who will have Monarchy out of all controversie to be the more ancient Government Good Sir I do not know nor do I think that this same way do you see of disputation hath any Predecessor VVhat do you tell me then that you have cause to think by the last or any Book of mine that my stores of Reason and Arguments are brought very low You see already that it is far otherwise Tell not me in this place that Doderus is as good a Book as the Bible nor let Divines for a thing that I know run here as they do from the Scripture unto Heathen Authors It is confest that Diodorus Siculus Aristotle Cicero Salust and Trogus say That in the beginning of things and of Nations the power was in Monarchs But then the Heathen Stories know nothing beyond Nimrod or his Successor Belus which is no excuse to you while the Scripture is so much a more ancient record much less to Divines at least such of them as preach against the squaring of Government according to the rule of Heathen Authors Mr. VVren to be plain there are of these that have a strange kinde of frowardness if a Commonwealth be described out of Heathen Authors they will