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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A25216	A reply to the Reverend Dean of St. Pauls's reflections on the Rector of Sutton, &c. wherein the principles and practices of the non-conformists are not only vindicated by Scripture, but by Dr. Stillingsfleet's Rational account, as well as his Irenicum : as also by the writings of the Lord Faulkland, Mr. Hales, Mr. Chillingworth, &c. / by the same hand ; to which is added, St. Paul's work promoted, or, Proper materials drawn from The true and only way of concord, and, Pleas for peace and other late writings of Mr. Richard Baxter ...	Alsop, Vincent, 1629 or 30-1703.; Barret, John, 1631-1713.	1681 (1681)	Wing A2919; ESTC R6809	123,967	128

too p. 287. By that Rule whosoever regulates his Life and Doctrine or Belief I am confident that though he may mistake Error for Truth in the way he shall never mistake Hell for Heaven in the End And yet further should you not consider whether it be not more agreeable to the Revealed Will and Mind of Christ that you should suffer some Ta●es to grow rather than pluck up good Corn with them Reverend Sir It having so happened that poor I have been called out among others an hundred times fitter to shew my Opinion touching the Matter you have started I cannot but think as I here declare so far as my Judgment serves you might have employed your Time your Learning and Parts to much better purpose than you have done in this late Piece of Work Surely my Life would be but sad to me if I could not find more pleasing Work than this that you have been an Occasion of engaging me in And yet I hope to have more Comfort in it at the great day of Accounts than I can conceive you to have of yours in that Day If you lay the Vnity ●f Christians upon Conformity too or Vniformity in doubtful and suspected if not unlawful Practices a general Vnion can never be had or hoped for If you would make the way to Heaven narower than Christ has left it many will be forced to leave you here But now if you would henceforth propose and promote an Vnion amongst Christians u●on Catholick Ierms we are for you and would heartily joyn with you And as that most learned and pious Bishop Vsher Serm. of Vnivers of the Church and Vnity of Faith p. 43 44. If at this d●y we should take a Survey of the several Professions of Christianity that have any large Spread in any part of the World and should put by the Points wher in they did differ one from another and gather into one Body the rest of the Articles wherein they all did generally agree we should find that in th●se Propositions which without all Controversy are universally received in the whole Christian World so much truth is contained as being joyned with holy Obedience may be sufficient to bring a Man unto everlasting Salvation Neither have ●e cause to doubt but that as many as do walk according to this Rule Pe●●e shal● be upon them and Mercy and upon the Israel of God Now there●or● do as he says ibid. p. 18. We for our parts dare not abridg this Gra●t and limit this great Lordship as we conceive it may best fit our own turns but ●●ave it to his own Latitude and seek for the Catholick Church neither in this Part nor in that P●ece but among all that in every place call upon the N●m● of Jesus Christ our Lord both theirs and ours And if a Zeal for such a general Comprehension and happy Vnion of Christians will to use the Words of Mr. de L' Ang●e p. 424. bri●g down a thousand Blessings of Heaven and Earth upon those that shall contribute the most unto it resolve now and hence forward to put forth your self this ●ay Put in for your share of Blessings I remember I concluded my former writing with a Collect borrowed from you Here I would say Amen to that Prayer with which Dr. Potter shuts up his Answer to Charity mistaken That it would please the Father of Mercies to take away out of his Church all Dissention and Discord all Heresies and Schisms all Abuses and false Doctrines all Idolatry Superstition and Tyranny and to unite all Christians in one holy Bond of Truth and Peace Faith and Charity that so with one Mind and one Mouth we may all joyn in his Service I add no more but that the Father of Lights would so direct your Studies and Course that you may do nothing against the Truth but for the Truth which is the Prayer of Reverend Sir Your humble and faithful Servant Iohn Barrett I more wish than hope that of these sad Controversies here will be The END Proper Materials drawn from the true and only way of Concord c. QUERY 1. WHether the Apostle Paul hath not clearly and fully decided the case against censuring or despising one another for things Indifferent Rom. 14 15. And if Men wi●● not understand nor stand to that Decision whether it should be any wonder if they will not understand or be satisfied with our most cogent Arguments Second Plea for Peace p. 169. § 75. Whether they that say the Apostle doth not forbid such Impositions there can see Day for Light 1. Doth he not forbid censuring despising and not receiving one another and command Dissenters to receive one another And then must he not forbid such Imposition as is inconsistent herewith 2. Doth he not direct this Command to all the Church of Rome even to the authorized Pastors and Rulers of the Church as well as to the People 3. Was he not a Pastor and Ruler of that Church as fully authorized as any that should succeed 4. Is not this Scripture as others written for a standing Rule and so obligatory to Rulers still ib. p. 170. § 77. Did not the Apostle speak here by Divine Authority Are not his Words recorded here part of Christ's Law indited by the Spirit And may we think that any that come after him or to whom he wrote should have power to contradict or obliterate the same Way of Concord p. 152. 5. Do not his Reasons touch the case of all Churches in all Ages and not only some particular Persons and Case As he argueth from the difference betwixt well-meaning Christians as weak and strong as doubting and as assured as mistaken and as in the right c. If such weak mistaken Christians in such matters ever have been and ever will be in the Church upon Earth doth not the reason from their case and necessity still hold 6. How many great and pressing moral Reasons that all Christians are bound by are heaped up here Does he not argue 1. From Christian love to Brethren 2. From human Compassion to the Weak 3. From God's own Example who receiveth such whom therefore we must not reject 4. From God's Prerogative to judg and our having no such judging power in such cases 5. From God's Propriety in his own Servants 6. From God's Love and Mercy that will uphold such 7. Because what Men do as to please God must not be condemned without necessity but an holy Intention cherished so it be not in forbidden things 8. Because Men must not go against Conscience in indifferent things 9. From Christ's dreadful Judgment which is near and which we our selves must undergo 10. From the Sin of laying Stumbling-blocks and occasions of Offence 11. From the danger of crossing the end of Christ's Death destroying Souls for whom he died 12. Because it will make our Good to be ill spoken of 13. Because the Kingdom of God or Constitution of Christianity and the Church lieth in

or lay the Sin at their Door But I observe you would have Care taken Preface p. 86. that there be No Pretence left for idle loose and profane Persons never going to any Church at all whence I conclude that you cannot but allow it that such as are not satisfied to joyn with you yet ought to joyn in God's Worship elsewhere and that in your serious Thoughts you judg it better for Persons to joyn with Congregations that hold Communion in your way of Worship unlawful for of such you are speaking in that place than to be of no Christian Society than not to attend at all on God's Worship Here if you would not be offended I shall tell you what a plain Christian a Neighbour of mine said of you I can remember I have seen him at the Sacrament with some of you abov● 20 Years ago and would he now have poor hungry Souls deprived of such Ordinancees and Means of Grace that cannot be satisfied to partake of them in his Way If any were a Cause of depriving so many thousands of their bodily Food as he would have deprived of Food for their Souls what would the World say of such Whereby he seemed to think your Sin as great as Murder and in some respects aggravated beyond it As he may likewise think the Sin of those that care not unnecessarily to offend others or would cause them to offend to be a kind of Murder in the Apostles Account Rom. 14. 15. Now walkest thou not charitably Destroy not him with thy meat for whom Christ died Such was the honest Man's Zeal he would have written to you to put it to your Conscience as he said but I thought this Intimation from him sufficient 3. I find you so kind or just you help such to Ministers those that cannot conform Irenic p. 42 you say It belongs to the Magistrate To see that Ministers preach the true Doctrine though he cannot lawfully forbid the true Doctrine to be taught and that they duly administer the Sacraments though he cannot command them to administer them otherwise than Christ hath delivered them down to us And that Christ did not deliver the Sign of the Cross down to us with Baptism I suppose the highest Conformists will grant This gives some Hopes such may lawfully preach still whom others cannot lawfully forbid Preaching And you tell us from another Vnreasonableness of Separation pag. 7. that Cranmer held himself for a Arch-Bishop still and was by Q. Marry forcibly restrained from it Latimer though he renounced his Bishoprick yet he kept his Ministry and never repented him of it And Ibid. p. 132. you say The Question is not whether all publick Worship be sinful when forbidden which you never said or thought as you tell us in the same Page I abhor and detest such Principles as to set up Man's Laws above God's This is good And you seem to allow that such publick Worship as hath no Evil in it antecedent to the Prohibition may not be forbidden Very good still All the Question here is Whether there be not Schism in it For I hope you shall never find Idolatry or Sedition in that Worship I would plead for Now as for the Charge of Schism do but allow Ministers equal Favour with others and you have said enough to clear them Iren. p. 113 116 119 120. Charge not them with Schism upon account of their distinct Meetings who are driven into them by your over-rigorours Impositions You know well how great a matter this imposing unlawful Conditions is with Chillingworth to warrant Separation How oft he is upon it in Chap. 5. where p. 267. ● 40. he hath the confidence to tell his Adversary You mistake in thinking that Protestants hold themseves obliged not to communicate with you only or principally by reason of your Errors and Corruptions For the true Reason according to my third Observation is not so much because you maintain Errors and Corruptions as because you impose them c. like your pleading for Non-conformists Irenic p. 118. So Ball of Separation pag. 159. The Lord needeth not Mans lie neither doth he allow us to do Evil that Good may come thereof And therefore I must not subscribe to an Error against Conscience though never so innocent nor profess Approbation of that which in Conscience I cannot allow though never so small c. But thus are many Ministers driven from you who neither dare lay down their Ministry nor take the charge of Parochial Congregations on them upon such hard that is sinful Terms For to borrow an Expression of Dr. Potter's Though in the issue the Errors be not damnable to them which believe as they profess yet for us to profess c. what we believe not were without question damnable Now may I come in with my Conclusion It is this Conclusion 1. It becomes unavoidable necessary for such Ministers and Christians as cannot in Conscience submit to your Terms and conform to your way of Worship neither may lawfully lay aside their Ministry nor live without God's Worship and Ordinances to be for other Assemblies than yours where the one may exercise their Ministry and the other with such Ministers may partake of God's Ordinances and joyn in his Worship which you call setting up of new Churches After the drawing up of this looking into Corbet of Church-Unity and Schism I find something to this purpose pag. 31 32. Though indeed I took my Hints from you here Now because I would not leave this Proposition so naked as yours stands I shall here offer something 1. On the behalf of Ministers 2. On the behalf of private Christians 1. On the behalf of such Ministers 1. You cannot deny but the Ministers who are forced to stand off from you were at least very many of them duly qualified for and had a sufficient valid call to the Office of the Ministry that they were God's Ministers Christ's Ministers before their Ejection You cannot deny but the mediate Call is from God and Christ even as well as the immediate Call was Those two Texts Act. 20. 28. 1 Cor. 12. 28. to name no more fully prove it 2. Though it is not questioned by us but the Clergy is under the Iurisdiction of the Prince Ministers as well as others under the Civil Magistrate and that they may where there is just Cause by him be deprived of their publick Liberty and may be imprisoned banished put to death yet without just Cause as Male-administration or matter of Scandal rendring them unfit to use your own Words no Power on Earth whether Civil or Ecclesiastical may turn those out of the Ministry whom God hath called to it Rulers Bishops may neither put in nor put out of this Office as they list Men may neither admit into nor put from the Ministry meerly at their their own Pleasure but only according to Christ's Will and Appointment For his Officers and Servants they are And Christ hath by his Apostles whose Authority

Instance he gives there is convincing If a Souldier knew his Captain his Leader was for opening the Gates to the Enemy and yet followed such a Leader keeping Rank and Order so unseasonably he would shew himself a Traitor rather than a faithful Souldier The Disciples would seem to have been for Order there as you are when they were hindring Christ's Service Mar. 9. 38. Luk. 9. 49. Master we saw one casting out Devils in thy name and we forbad him because he followeth not us Now I heartily wish even for your own sake from that true and due Respect I owe to you that you would more impartially examine what you have been doing and reflect upon your self consider seriously whether you are not forbidding and condemning some as faithful Followers of Christ as your self even in their serving Christ and serving their Generation What are your Thoughts of such as Iospeh and Richard Alleyn with divers others that might be named who kept to their ministerial Work and as you say of Father Latimer never repented them of it If now they have that Well-come home Well done good and faithful Servants enter into the Ioy of your Lord. How far are they above all your Censures And me-thinks it deserves Men's serious Consideration whether they pray as they ought Thy Kingdom come or whether indeed they act not against their own Prayers who indeavour to hinder the preaching of the Gospel a means of enlarging and building up God's Kingdom And as you declare to the World p. 394. you are one that believes a day of Iudgment to come which I would not once question I beseech you Sir think well of what that well disposed Gentleman as you call him says I think gravely and piously Letter out of the Country pag. 38 39. Let us bring the Cause before our Supream and Final Iudg. And bethink your self whether of these two things he will be most likely to have regard unto the saving of Souls which He bought with his Blood or the preserving inviolate certain Humane Institutions and Rules confessed by the Devisers of them not to be necessary c. And so much of your first Conclusion and mine Your second Conclusion follows Preface p. 73. 2. Those are new Churches when Men erect distinct Societies for Worship under distinct and peculiar Officers governing by Laws and Church-Rules different from that Form they separate from Here 1. I cannot but look on you as very unfortunate unhappy in this Cause you have espoused How oft do you greatly expose your self that what you urge agianst your Brethren may justly be retorted on you So here how plain is it that you look but on one side which as I remember you suppose those that differ from you to be faulty in Had you not one Thought that if you owned such a Conclusion as this I should be likely to tell you you had spoiled your Cause Nihil quod nimis satis that by proving too much you would in effect prove nothing of that you aim at Should you not have considered what an Argument you here put into the Mouths of the Dissenters against the National Church of England against Diocesan Churches and against Parochial Churches too 1. Will not many be ready to tell you that it follows undeniably from this Conclusion of yours that you have made the National Church of England and the Diocesan Churches therein New unlawful Churches because under divers peculiar Officer governing by Laws and Church-Rules different from the Apostolical Primitive Church as from other Reformed Churches If those are new unlawful Schismatical Churches with you that are under distinct and peculiar Officers governing by Laws and Church-Rules different from the Apostolical truly Primitive Churches as I suppose it must come to that Primum in unoquoque genere est Regula Mensura reliquorum what work have you made here What an heavy Task and hard Province have you taken on you Can you ever prove that there are no Officers Laws Rules and Orders in your Church different from what were in the true Primitive Church Can you ever find all these Officers Arch-Bishops Lord-Bishops Deans Chancellors c down to Apparitors in the Primitive Church Will you undertake to find there all our Ecclesiastical Canons even Rules for kneeling in the Act of Receiving for signing with the Cross in Baptism for excluding the Parents and setting God-Fathers and God-Mothers in their stead with a Rule for peculiar appropriate Vestments c. To say here that though you have peculiar Officers Laws and Rules different from the Apostolical Primitive Church yet you do not own your selves to be a Church separate from that Primitive Church will not bring you off For this many Dissenters likewise say they separate not from you but hold Communion with you in all that is necessary and further have more Local Presential Communion with you than you can pretend to have with the Primitive Church Yet you will have their Assemblies separate Churches while they worship God by any other Rule than yours though their Worship be as agreeable to the Scripture-Rule And yet can you or any mortal Man prove that others may not be allowed to differ from you in such things wherein you differ from the Apostolical primitive Church Again it will as little help you to say That you speak of particular Congregations or Societies for Worship For 2. Do you not here make your Parochial Congregations also New Churches If the Primitive Church had not your Liturgy were not bound to the use of your Book of Common-Prayer then you cannot deny but you are under a somwhat different Rule And are there not some Parishes that have only Deacons to officiate And may I not be bold to tell you that you can never prove your Deacons the same with those in the Churches erected by the Apostles According to P. Paul Sarpi of matters Benefic N. 27. Deacons were Ministers of temporal things You your self say p. 311. It was no properly Church-power which they had but they were Stewards of the common Stock Then are not Deacons that are allowed to preach and baptize c. different Officers By this time I hope you will be sensible what a Wound you have given to the Cause you take upon you to defend by this Conclusion which is my first Note upon it 2. At the first view and reading of this your second Conclusion I was willing to hope that then you would not condemn such Assemblies as Mr. B's who leave the ruling Work to you and are glad if they be permitted to preach and hear God's Word and do not separate from you but joyn with you even in Sacraments as well as other parts of God's Worship But looking farther into your Book I see my Mistake For you say pag. 98. as was cited before No Man denies that more places for Worship are desirable and would be very useful where c. But is it possible that Mr. B. should think the Case alike where

be scrupled Noted Rector of Sutton pag. 16. And thus far if you please you and I are agreed That Rules of Order not contrary to the end of Order should be submitted unto and that not only for the Churches Peace but also in Obedience to God's Command Let all things be done decently and in order And to such orderly Determinations what Camero says pag. 314. col 1. may in some sort be applied Admonitiones quidem sunt respectu Ecclesiae at Leges respectu Dei nempe hâc Ratione quod commendavit Ecclesia Deus imp●ravit 2. But I observe that in other Writings since your mind is changed and you have learned now to confound what before you would have distinguished that is your Rites and Ceremonies and Matters of Order and Decency as was noted Rector of Sutton p. 63. So you say in your New Account or Vnreasonableness of Separation p. 393. We declare that they are appointed only for Order and Decency And thus now these become meer Matters of Order and Decency with you Of which there hath been and is so great dispute Here two or three Questions come in for your Solution 1. Whether such Rites and Ceremonies are Matters of meer Order and Decency 2. Whether the Governours of the Church have Power to appoint and determine the use of such Matters 3. Whether every one is bound to submit to them upon such Determination I intend not to say much upon these Questions supposing they may fall in others Way And but that you seem too resolved to hold your own Conclusion so much hath been written upon these Points that might excuse us from saying more till what hath been published be fairly answered Question 1. Whether such Rites and Ceremonies are Matters of meer Order and Decency 1. You say and declare they are appointed only for Order and Decency But not as if the contrary implied a natural Indecency as was noted Rector of Sutton p. 63. whereupon it follows that you must hold them vainly appointed or that the contrary might as well have been appointed and so teach or tempt People to have hard Thoughts of the Governours of the Church for appointing and so rigorously imposing such Ceremonies whereby many are deprived of their Ministers and of some of God's Ordinances which may seem very harsh if they are only for Order and Decency and that in so low a Degree that the Worship of God might be as orderly and decently performed without them Would you have the Governours of the Church deprive Ministers of their Liberty and others of the Sacraments for no other Cause than their meer Wills 2. Do you well accord here with Mr. R. Hooker who says Our Lord himself did that which Custom and long-usage had made fit we that which Fitness and great Decency hath made usual You seemed Answer to several Treatises p. 268. unwilling that any should urge you with that Scil. Then the Apostle's way of Worship was not not in it self altogether so decent and fit● But if the Ceremonies be in themselves of such an indifferent Nature that the contrary implieth no Indecency then you cannot say that their great Decency and Fitness was the Ground of appointing and using them Wherein you and Mr. Hooker appear to be of different Minds And kneeling at Communions with him l. 5. § 68. p. 366. is a Gesture of Piety which is something more than meer Decency 3. Do you well accord here with the Governours of the Church You declare our Ceremonies are appointed only for Order and Decency Whereas they have declared them to be for the due Reverence of Christ's holy Mysteries and Sacraments And that they are apt to stir up the dull mind of Man to the Remembrance of his Duty to God by some notable and special Signification whereby he might be edified Will you say such things are only for Order and Decency which are for the due Reverence of Christ's holy Mysteries and for stirring up the dull mind of Man to the Remembrance of his Duty to God and for his Edification One would think that such things should be good in themselves and not as you say of an indifferent Nature in themselves Can you imagine things that are only for Order and Decency whose contrary are as decent to be the same or as good as things for the due Reverence of Christ's holy Mysteries c. And if a Ceremony be apt to stir up the dull mind of Man to the Remembrance of his Duty whereby he may be edified then is it not made medium excitans which you say Vnreasonableness of Separation p. 354. our Church utterly denies Is here no spiritual Effect attributed to Ceremonies which you can by no means allow pag. 347. But this you are commonly driven to in Disputation to say they are only Matters of Order and Decency and so would bring them under that Rule or Precept Let all things be done decently and in Order tho they are things of a quite different Nature Matters of Order and Decency are there commanded in genere but it would be no Transgression of that Command though not one of these Ceremonies were appointed or used in the Worship of God nor any others like them Quest. 2. Whether the Governours of the Church have Power to appoint and determine the Use of such Ceremonies Here 1. You say pag. 347. If Men do assert so great a Power in the Church as to appoint things for spiritual Effects it is all one as to say the Church may make new parts of Worship And then the Question is whether these are no spiritual Effects if they be for the due Reverence of Christ's holy Mysteries and for Men ' s Edification And as Dr. Field says they are adhibited to exercise great Fervour and Devotion And Hooker Men are edified by Ceremonies when either their Vnderstandings are taught somewhat whereof in such Actions it behooveth all Men to consider or when their minds are stirred up to that Reverence Devotion and due Regard which in those Cases seemeth requisite If you mak● them unprofitable idle Indifferents are not such things unworthy of the Churches Appointment and if others make them profitable edifying Ceremonies have you not here denied that the Church hath so great Power of her self to appoint such 2. If Church-Governours have Power that is lawful Power or Authority from Christ to appoint and command the Use of such Ceremonies then they can shew so much Power granted them in their Commission or prove it from the written Law of Christ. Here I remember what you say Rational Account p. 103. Is it in that Place where he bids the Apostles to teach all that he commanded them that he gives Power to the Church to teach more than he commanded And a little before it what hath he commanded her to do to add to his Doctrine by making things necessary which he never made to be so Surely you cannot think the Church hath any such Power In all kind of