sometime no is called most happy and the like be those intelligences that serues him bicause they be neuer letted of any thing and may alwayes beholde God wherby they be reputed more happye and blessed than we which althoughe we may well sometime taste by contemplation parte of him we can not stand long in so happy estate bicause we be hindred of many diuers things wherof that parte which is in vs that vnderstandeth bicause it vnderstandeth not alwayes but sometime yea and sometime no is called intellect by name of a power and they bicause they vnderstand euer are called intelligences by name of operation and of acte Iust These thy reasons be very good but they haue not yet persuaded me that sléepe is not good And when I remember the great pleasure that I haue in sléeping one sléepe of will as when I am weary which thing chaunced to me oftener when I was a yong man than it doeth now I can not but be sory of olde age that hath taken it from me in suche sort that mine may for the most parte rather be called a slumbring than a sléeping Soule Ah hast thou séene that of thy selfe thou haste confest that sléepe is not good Iust Oh in what manner thou hast vnderstanded me cleane contrarie Soule Rather haue I vnderstanded thée well Iust How Soule Bicause those things that be not good of their proper nature but only for respect of other be not called good absolutely but by chaunce and respect and to them onely that haue néede among the which is sléepe the which being as thou hast said a restoring of trauailes and of the paines of creatures is only good to them and yet not euer but when they haue néede And if it séeme it bringeth them some delight it is in respect of this wearinesse which were muche better not to haue as those intelligences whereof I spake afore to whome it were a greate impediment and annoyance bicause they are neuer weary for it shoulde diminishe their felicitie at leaste so muche time as they were occupied of it But that thou sholdst be more cleare of this tel me is eating and drinking to be put among good things Iust Who doubteth of that being a thing so good and so desired to liue and that without thē nothing can be maintayned aliue Soule Then what is the cause thou doest not eate and drinke alwayes Iust Now heare a goodly matter that thou hast spoken bicause when I haue taken of them as much as my néede requireth I haue no desire and hauyng no desire I haue no delight Wherfore to eate or drinke more should as much loth me as afore it did delight me Soule Then sée that to eate to drink to sléepe and like things be good only to supply a want of them that haue néede and the wante of a thing necessary to the being or the wel being of an other is neuer good and it were much better not to haue néede Wherof thou mayst cléerely knowe that if olde age had not taken away thy sleepe causing thée to haue lesse néede of sleepe than thou wert wont thou hadst wrongfully complayned of hir as thou doest also lamenting of time yeares which thou saist hath brought thée to this state foolish vnkind that thou art Iust O why may I not reasonably complaine me of time it onely being y ◠which hath made me so to grow olde Soule First bicause olde age is not worse in it selfe than the other be and furder bicause it is not time that cōsumeth and maketh things olde Iust Neuer tel me that y ◠it is better to be olde than yong for certainly if I had .xxv. yeares lesse I would thinke my selfe happy Soule If thou hadst .xxx. lesse thou sholdst be but Iust the Couper as thou art now and perhaps shouldest be in an age much more perillous and ful of trauaile than this is that thou art in now But I will not speake of this for I will make thée know it manifestly when I list I◠I doe not shew thée first how false and foolish thy opinion is in complayning of time more that thou art olde being a naturall thing to be olde And no man ought to lament of those things that nature brings Iust Say what thou wilt for seing I cā not sléepe it shal grieue me lesse to looke for day and shall reioyse me of that good that thou sayst little sleping bringeth Soule Thou doest Iust as the most part of men the which not seing manifestly the cause which consumeth wasteth things when they sée any present they doe attribute it to the time Wherof if they sée a man wax olde or forget that he knew they say it comes of time likewise when they sée an house fall yet whā they sée it builded they impute it to the workeman When they sée a man grow and come to perfect stature they attribute it to nature And so whē they sée he learnes they say his maister hath taught him Iust What meanest thou by this Soule Let me firste tell thée what Time is then thou shalt sée Time Iust as I haue often heard is nothing but a measure by the which all motions be measured which thinges corporall doe euen as thou doest with thy Brace wherwith thou measurest al things in thy shoppe and as that in it selfe and properly is a péece of woodde and intencionally in mannes minde by consideration and as it serueth for measure of things it is a measure so Time in it selfe really is the motion of heauen and as it serues for the measure of other motions it is called Time Iust I vnderstande thée and not vnderstande thée and I would haue thée declare it better Soule Heare me and that thou mayst the better vnderstand thou must know that a thing whych must all be brought vnder a determyned quantitie thou must sée it so neyther more nor lesse in thy imagination but with one of the very selfe same sorte which thyng thou prouest euery hour in thy selfe for whē thou wilt compt the patens in thy shop bicause they be things diuided and seperated thou must doe it with numbers which be also deuided seperated And when thou wylte measure an Axiltrée thou must take a yarde that is ioyned and continued as that is Iust This is most true Soule Wherefore when men wyll measure motions whych they sée continually in these things generable and corruptible it was of necessitie to do it otherwise And bicause in al measures this condition of necessitie is soughte by reason they mighte be inuariable and neuer chaunge otherwyse thyngs coulde not be measured by them for if thy yard should sometime diminish and sometime increase thou couldest neuer measure any thing rightly with it men not findyng any motion among these natural things that wēt alwais equally not varying they wente to them of heauen and not finding among them any so righte as that whych the starry Sphere maketh called
as thou sayst but sée I doe not graunt thée it for if I did so what would other do who am I then Soule Thou art the body of Iust Iust And who art thou Soule The soule of Iust Iust Thâ— what maner thing is Iust Soul We two together for neither is the body nor the soule the maÌ„ but that coÌ„pound thing that coms of them both And mark that wheÌ„ the soule is separate fro the body it is called man no more but a carcas after the Latin tong and a deade body after y â— vulgar spéech so as thou spakest before when thou saidst y â— wert half beside thy self Iust This is true and I can not denie it But heare me if thou art my soule as thou sayst what means this thy beginnyng to talke of thy selfe without me shalte thou euer depart from me â–ª Alas I would not that for then I should die as thou sayst Soule Haue no doubt of y â— Iust for I haue no lesse will to remaine with thée thaÌ„ thou hast to remain with me Iust O blessed be y â— my swete soule Soule Yea I praye thée that thou wilt not put me from thée Iust Mary God forbid beleue not that for I wold liue loÌ„ger if I could than did Mathusalem Soule Yea but y â— is not inough for y â— may not do as one of our Citizens did which was wont to say y â— he neuer put away seruant but he handled them so whome he liked not as they went away of themselues Iust And what wayes be they that I must kepe y â— thou goe not froÌ„ me Soule Take héede thou make no disorder whereby the temperature of thy complexion wherevpon thy life is founded doe not come to suche alteration as it choketh thâ— â–ª vital spirites and force me to depart â–ª froÌ„ thée Iust And if I regarde my selfe as thou sayest how long wilt thou tarie with me Soule So long as thy grounded moysture â—e not dried vp for thy naturall heate shall bée quenched â–ª as a lampe that lacketh oyle Iust And wherof commes that Soule Of age the which is nothing else but a drying â–ª vp of the one and a cooling of the other Iust O good Soule hears â–ª me teach me then if ther he any way to restore this moysture that thou speakest of that dothe quenche as the oyle of the lampe that it may continue longer Soule There is none other waye but that whiche nature hath taughte thée giuing thée appetite to eate â–ª and drink with one of the which heate with the other moisture is restored Iust Then he that eats and drinks well shall neuer die Soule Rather the contrarie for too much nouriture â–ª doe gendre too great quantitie of humours â–ª and the moste parte not good whereof come those infirmities that violently doe strangle the liuely spirites euen as a light put out by force and is the cause of death before our time Iust Oh how might a man then do it by eating and drinking by rule Soule Neither by this could a man liue euer â–ª for that restorement that is made is of moisture â—eate which be not of y â— perfection as those which nature haue giuen although they 〈◊〉 better or worse in one and an other according to the coÌ„plexion And Iust thou knowest y t in this thing it haps as doth in a vessel of wine out of the which if thou takest euery â–ª day a drop and put in as muche water â–ª in space of time it wil come to passe â–ª that it is no more wine nor can not be called watred wine but rather wined water bycause there lackes in it â–ª 〈◊〉 worke the operation of wine euen so when moisture and heate restored by outwarde meane of eating and drinking do ouercome the naturall it can not doe those operations that the naturall doth wherby the life falleth to decay Iust What is the cause that amoÌ„g men that vse all one manner of diet some haue longer life than other Soule CoÌ„plexion which one hath by nature better than an other by which his heaâ—e is more temperate and his moisture lesse apte to be dried vp and corrupted as in sanguine 〈◊〉 and al them y t haue their moisture lesse watry more â—â—ry â–ª Of the which thing thou mayst see euident experience in trées amoÌ„g which they that haue watrie moisture â–ª as alders willowes salowes and other like endure but a while they that haue airy as pine â—â—rre cypresse do liue long time â–ª and and all this commeth bicause the airy moisture is more hardly dried corrupted than is the watrie Iust Oh my soule I do not remember that since I had vnderstandyng I haue euer had so muche pleasure as this morning and forasmuche as I am a litle assured of thée and begyn to beleue that thou art my soule and not a spirite or a vision as I thought at the first I will aske thée certaine questions Soule Say what thou wilte for I willingly answere thée Iust But before I doe aske any thing I would haue thée tell me why after we haue ben together .lx. yeare or more thou haste deferred to discouer thy selfe and to reason with me as thou dost now for if thou haddest done so before I should perhaps haue beÌ„ an other maner maÌ„ thaÌ„ I am now Iust There haue ben many causes that haue kept me from doing of it the principal cause hath ben thineage not apt vnto it for in thine Infancie and Childehoode thy members and partes be not apt to my seruices and in thy growing and youthly time the passions of the sensitiue parte that then be most vehement in thy ripe yeares care how to liue at lust hathe not suffred me to withdrawe â–ª me into my selfe as I haue done now when I am not letted of like things â–ª although as yet â–ª I can not do it as I would for thou being afrayde euery houre not to lose that thou hast as other old couetous men thou doest not suffer me to rest one halfe houre in the day for when thou hast eaten or sleptte thou runnest to thy work wherby I being forced to minister vitall spirites to thy senses and thy members I neuer haue any rest and of this did I lameÌ„t at the beginning if thou remeÌ„brest when I began to talke with my self Iust Wel tel me for this it is that I wil aske thâ—â— first what is the cause why thou didst lament of me Haue I not alwayes loued thée euen as thou haddest ben my proper soule and my life as thou sayst thou art Soule Yes but thou haste muche more loued thy selfe and where thou oughtest to haue loued thy selfe for my sake and haue made much of thy selfe that I mighte the better haue wrought in thee mine operatioÌ„s thou hast loued me for thy seruice so the parte lesse worthy lesse noble hath euer coÌ„maÌ„ded y e more worthie more noble as it doth
beginning to open to me the way of knowledge of the truth which as I haue said vnto thée is my chiefe ende Iust Be shorte and tell me what I must haue done Soule Thou must I say haue giuen thy selfe to the study of science diuiding thy time so as thou shouldest not haue let thy worke Iust And wouldest thou that I shold both haue plaide the Couper and the Student Soule Yea would I. Iust And what would the people haue said Soule What say they at Bolonia of one Iames Fellay ther which kepes his occupation yet hath profited in learning that he may compare with many that haue done nothing else but study and in Venice an Hosier that died of late and was very wel learned Iust What time should I haue had to it Soule So much as should haue suffised which thou didst spende somtime in play or in going abroad babling by the way for dost thou thinke that they that study do study euer if thou lokest wel thou shalt sée them most part of the day walking abroad remember of Mathew Palmer thy neighbour that euer was a Potecarie and yet got so much learning as the Florentines sente him embassadour to the king of Naples the which dignitie was giuen him only to shew a thing so rare y â— a man of so base condition shold haue so noble conceits as to giue himself to study not leauing his exercise and I remember I haue heard that the king said What Phisitians be at Florence when their Apothecaries be so singular men Iust I knowe thou sayst true and I hadde inclination inough but two things caused me that I neuer had no minde that way the one was the base arte that I was of the other the payn that I haue heard of many that is in study Soule Thou art euen fallen wher I would alleaging this second cause for as for the first if these examples of our time which I haue named doe not suffise thée let the auncient examples of those olde Philosophers suffise which vsed all some occupation and specially of Hippias which did shape and sowe his clothes did make trappers for horses and many other things but to the other I answere thée that in the world is not so easy a thing as to study and to get learning Iust Thou telst me a thing which I thought the contrary Soule Heare me and I will proue it Euery thyng holpen of his proper nature getteth his perfectioÌ„ without any paine and perfection is the knowledge of veritie wherefore a man in getting it should haue no payne at all Of this coÌ„clusion the propositions being true I know that thou hast no doubt at all but bicause thou mightest doubt of theÌ„ I wil proue them and first the maner Tell me thinkest thou the earth endureth any paine in going to the centre Iust I thinkeÌ„ not Soule And doth y â— fire take any pain to mount to his Sphere Iust Lesse Soule And doe the plants take any pain to be nourished to be augmented and to bring forth their séede and the beasts to â—oaâ—e and gender like to them selues Iust No for I sée euery one doth these operations if he be not letted Soule Then thou knowest that nothing dureth any paine to get his perfection bicause the earth is onely perfect when she is in hir Centre and the fire when he is in his Sphere wher he hath no contrariety and the trées wheÌ„ they become to their termes brought forth their fruits the beasts wheÌ„ they haue gendred like to theÌ„selues to maintain their kinde which they can not do in theÌ„selues singular bycause so doing they grow more like their first mouer Now I haue only to proue thée y â— them and perfection of man is to vnderstand but I knowe that the desyre of knowledge the which thou séest to be in euery man doth assure thée of it Iust Oh I wold not haue ben dead yesterday for nothing in the world for thou haste opened mine eyes so well that I sée now that I neuer sawe afore in thre score yeares and more Soule I will saay more vnto thée it were more easy for Iust to vnderstande a worke of Aristotle than to make a Pitcher or a payre of Soccles for a Frier Iust Nowe thou speakest of a great matter Soule I speake as it is and heare the reason What pleasure hast thou in making a paire of patens or a vessell or such like Iust I haue pleasure bicause I sée I gaine therby and so prouide for my neede that riseth euery day Soule Let vs leaue gaine for that also cometh of study but what other pleasure hast thou Iust None surely Soule And I lesse rather I haue an extreame passion knowing as I haue told thée and finding my selfe occupied in such things vile Iust Then what is the cause séeing it is as I see that so fewe men be giuen to study and chiefly of them that might and wante not the way to doe it Soule Of their euill bringing vp gouernement of their fathers and of their euil way of life which is now in the world and also in the feare whych they make that be counted lerned shewing that study is the hardest thyng that a man can doe Iust Thou sayst truth for I haue hapt many times to heare them say so they play as phisitians which alwais makes the diseases of their parents to be greuous and daungerous to shewe that if they recouer them they haue done a great cure Soule Ah Iust would God that this occasion only moued them to do so but they be moued of an other worse principle Iust What is it tell me Soule I must haue more time and now it is broade day to morow if thou will reason as thou hast done this mornyng I will tell thée that and other things Iust With a good will and I pray thée too Soule Well I will tarrie till thou callest me for I will no more wake thée to grieue thée as thou werte this morning Iust So will I doe The .iiij. Reasoning IVST SOVLE Haue slepte euill thys nyght God I what would it meane yet I fynde no euill at all Some other wil say that these be the things which the infirmitie that all men couereth I meane Age bringeth to slepe euill and watche worse but it shal be better for mée since I am entred into this Fansie to talke with my Soule with whome I haue had suche pleasure these thrée rymes that wee haue talked together that euery houre seemeth a thousande yeare to renue the same yet may it be a Dreame wherof I stand halfe in doubt for I neuer heard that any such thing hath chaunced to any other before this time and thoughe it séemeth that Dauid in hys Psalmes sometime talketh with hir as in the begynning of the Seruice where he asketh hir why she is so melancolie and troubled yet could I neuer learne that she made hym any answere
a trée whereby it foloweth a yarde to be nothing but in our cogitation as a yarde can doe neither good nor hurt Iust Thou mightst aske my prentice if it can do hurt or no y t so oft haue laid with it good blowes vpon him Soule This operation he doeth as a trée as he is really not as a yarde so shold an other haue done that serued not for a measure Therefore if thou wouldest nedes lament thou must do it of heauen which with his mouing maketh al things to varie that be included within thē of the which thou canst not reasonably doe it bicause he with his mouing gendring all things is y ◠cause why thou also art And though it séemeth the cause why thou other decay this commeth not principally of him bicause his intētion is to maintaine this vniuersal but by reason y t he hath none other maner to make y ◠things whereof you be made which goeth continually chaūging vnder diuerse formes therefore you wax old and finally decay Yet can you not lament for this of him that hath made you being better to be of a matter corruptible thā to be nothing at all which thou oughtst not to doe for though thou arte mortall thou arte vnited with me which am immortall in suche sort as I shall make thée also immortall by the grace of him that hath created me sent me vnto thée when we shal rise at y ◠day of the great iudgement So sée how euill thou doest to cōplayne of time and perhaps the more bicause thou art waxen olde the age wherein thou now art being no lesse worthie to be estemed or paraduenture better than all they Iust To this I wil say thou art cunning if thou cāst make me vnderstād it Soule I hope it shall not be hard for me to doe it if thou wilt heare reason and folow it as thou oughtst But it is now day arise and go to thy businesse and as I shall sée thée disposed another time of these things I will kéepe promise with thée The .x. Reasoning SOVLE IVST IVst O Iust awake for it is now time complaine not this morning that thyne age hath taken away thy sléepe for thou hast slept this night as well as when thou wast a childe Iust O my Soule thou saist truth I am so comforted y ◠me think I came but now to bed But what is y t cause I haue slept better now thā I am wont I pray thée tell me the cause if thou canst Soule If I should aunswer thée the disposition of the heauen which paraduenture now is in a being much appropriate to the temperature of thy complexion thou mightst aunswer me that this is y ◠aunswere of y ◠ignorant which not knowing the particular causes of things bringeth forth euer vniuersall aūswering to thē y ◠aske thē God the heauen wil haue it so Wherefore comming to y ◠perticularitie wherwith our desire is quieted I say y ◠thy temperate séeding hath ben the cause which thou didst vse yesternight whereby the quātitie of thy nutrimēt not hauing ouercome the force of the heate that ought to séeth it there hath risen in thée no trouble euerie power hath ben able to doe his office liberally So as if thou sléepest not so other nights the fault is many times of thy fragilitie and not of thyne age which as I haue sayd vnto thée doth not deserue to be blamd more than the other which thou hast passed Iust Wouldest thou make me vnderstand that olde age which is the receipt of troubles should be good Soule I wil not make thée beleue any thing but I will onely shew thée the truth which thing I shall well doe this morning bicause thou hast so well reposed thy self as thou art more hable to vnderstande reason now than when thou hast by some accident altered thy humors and troubled thy spirites Iust I wil heare thée with a good wil truely for I know that of euery opiniō be it neuer so muche against reason a man learneth somewhat But I shall desire thée y t thou wilt not doe as they whose purpose is only to persuade vsing all reason and coniecture being neuer so false so it haue any meane to obtaine their desire Soule Doubt not of this for I shuld doe thée too muche iniurie and whome should I deceiue but my selfe being so vnited with thée that must haue the same fortune Soule Then thou shalt doe thy duetie and when thou wouldest doe otherwise I should yelde a recompence contrary and doe to thée as he did to the frier maister of the reuestrie in the Anuntiata who wold haue bought a candle to haue offred to that image for a vowe and the frier saying to him take one of these that be here in the churche and giue the mony which thou shouldst spend to the reuestrie then giuing him a bunche of candles in his hande said take which thou wilt and it shall be as good as if thou hadst euen now put it in the altare The mā doing as y ◠frier bad him said now touche you this purse wherin my money is and it shal be euē as good vnto you as if you had it and so the one was euen with the other Soule Iust let these toyes goe for I tell thée certainly that I shal make thée vnderstand y t olde age doth not deserue to be blamed nor called a worse age thā any of the other And that thou mightst better vnderstand mark what wants it hath or wherof men do blame it and I wil shew thée how much both thou and they be deceiued for I otherwise could not defend it not knowing any wāt in it And whē I haue deliuered it of those blames then will I shew the praises of it and I hope in the end that it shall no lesse please thée to be olde than yong Iust If ther wer none other thing but this y t we olde men be not only litle estemed but rather scorned of euery one dost y u not think y t old age is an il thing Soule Yes if it came of hir self but if thou considerest wel to whom this happeneth y u shalt sée it procedeth not of old age but of them selues which hauing had little accōpt of their honor in their life haue bene cause that mē giue them not that reuerēce y t they ought to haue wherby if they be in litle reputation w t other their behauior is the fault not their age So as if thou hast none other cause to blame hir this is worthe nothing but rather discouereth what thy maners be or haue ben y t causeth their blame in their olde age Iust Yes I haue reasōs too many but bicause I sée I cā neuer proue any with thée I will not speake them but yelde to thée and will also if I can force my self to beleue thée for if I could do so it wer