sauing Priests of the Seigniory would be the the first weary of it For if I knowe their disposition they are as vnpatient as any men to bee at controlment and moste of all by a poore Minister It hath alwaies bene the practise of y e subtile Serpent who that hee might vndermine the authorye of Gods Embassadours and bring the Messengers of the most highest vnto disgrace to lift vppe some who neglectinge the moste essentiall duetyes of a Pastoure and Elder in feeding the flockes and being a Pattern in their whole life and example vnto them are wont to climbe into the ambitious throne of exercising a vsurped ecclesiasticall Dominion and a Lordship ouer their fellow-ministers that whilste by their place and pompe they might amaze the people as beeing men of great learning and wisedome and might also by their authority make the poore Ministers as the aunswearer sayth Priuat Ministers to speake when they wil wryte to what they list and to be their Commissaries cryer y t is their mās man to promulgat his sentence of excommunication at his pleasure hee might also bring to passe that which the Prophet Jeremy complayneth of in both The Prophets prophesie for reward and the Priestes exercise dominion * by their meanes and my people loue it so and what will they doe in the ende Which we see hath not onely won much vnto the cause of Sathan in popery but also it keepeth much power vnto him amongest those who do professe the Gospell For by this meanes it commeth to passe that they will goe 5. mile to heare a Lord preach when they will hardly come to Church to heare their owne Pastour By this meanes they becomme so irreuerent or rather sawcie with their Pastour that they care no more for his admonition and rebuke then for the bleating of a sheepe by this meanes they maye call him before a Commissarye a lay-man as he speaketh they may fetch out Excommunications thicke and three-folde if hee appeare not and so not only not haue him not to exercise dominion ouer them which Peter forbiddeth but also be Lordes ouer their Pastour beeing but priuate personnes which the lawe of reason disaloweth Which pollicy of Sathan although it become odious in the sight almost of all men but especially of true and louing subiects who are greeued that some not onelye exercise Lordship ouer theire fellow-ministers but also pearche so high as they pray vpon the right of princes whilste they forsoothe may not eate flesh in Lent or on a Fryday but by a Byshoypes lycense yet this man who hath giuen his tong leaue to reuile the Ministers with diuers slaunders reproches cannot content himselfe with that but must open his mouth against the due authority of the Ministers of Jesus Christe In which respect wee account our selues bounde by the Canonicall obedience which we owe vnto y e Archbishop of our soules Jesus Christ according to y e Canons which he hath made in his worde first to shew how this man disordereth y e questiō according to his maner voweth consent as it seemeth with the Jesuits in these his assertions proofs and then hauing discussed his allegations to confirm the plain truth by holy authority of scripture and worthy witnes of ancient times In the entrance therfore the Answerer is not content only to fly from y e issue whether according to the word of God the minister shold exercise the censures of the Church according to y ◠word of God which with vs is executed by Commissaries meere lay-men vnto another thing namely what inconueniences the excommunication committed to the pastor might bring but also to set vpon a matter neuer affirmed by vs that a minister should without the rest of the ecclesiastical senate perform this thing His agreement with the Papists may appeare manifestly by their Annotation the 4. ver of 5. cap. 1. Cor. Their wordes are these Though he commanded the Acte shoulde be done in the face of the Church as such sentences and censures bee at this day executed also yet the iudgement and authority of giuing sentence was in himselfe and not in the whol multitude as the Protestants and populer sects affirm Wherfore seeing his cause is that which is betweene the sworne enimies of GOD and his Church we are not to fear but the truth which hath preuayled so often against them shall also carry the Garland from this newe Wrestler His first reasons are drawne from the inconueniences which hee thinketh will come vnto the Church by this means as requiring rather like a Ciuilian not a diuine what is safe then what is according to God his wil Amongst which he demaundeth whether the Authour had not rather be vnder the forme that nowe is then vnder the infinite dictatorship of his owne minister which I aunswere by another Question why should the ministers censures proceeding by the equall authority of an Eldership vpon causes determined by God his worde in a small volume be more infinite then y e Commissaries who cannot but proccede according to the infinite and contradictorye Canons of their Law who can excommunicate vpon non apparaunce for a matter of 12 pence Is it liker that one Minister shal haue many elders more tied to his wil pleasure then one Commissary his own affections Againe may not their appeale from one Eldership to a Conference or assemblie of many Ministers and Elderships be as safe as from the Commissary to another Byshop And if it were granted that the Byshop should haue authoritye in euerye particuler Churche yet with the Ministers consent vnlesse he will iustle one lawe against another why were it not more reasonable safe then as it is nowe in the Byshoppe alone Seeing then the Minister might haue more particuler knowledge of the causes in his Congregation then the Byshop and yet if hee were rash the Byshops wisedome might stay him And if the Byshoppe shoulde suspende the Minister vppon abuse of his authoritye yet hee were not at the same poynt he was before because then they which did not abuse their authoritye mighte exercise it still And if the Byshoppe dwell in the Parish and had preheminence yet hee shoulde not draw the execution of Discipline to himselfe onely but to holde it in common with him But what doe I answering his cauelles agayuste the Lawe seeing I doubt not but the Abstractor will soone aunswere his cauill in this behalf For the fountayns which are in his Booke already are not yet dammed vp by the answerer Wherefore I passe to his incōuenience which he fetcheth from the want of discretion in y ◠Minister which is What if hee vpon want of discretion doe excommunicate some greate peere of his Parish vppon some surmized cause whose indignation may turne the whole church to great mischeefe To this I answere that vnlesse the Byshops seat aboue a Pastors be so sanctified as Hierome sayth by humain constitutions as that it can alwaies proceede with
Churches in his dominions both lawfully may by duety ought not onely to disanull what-soeuer election the Elders and people haue vnlawfully made but also by his ciuil preeminence to compell them to make a newe election according to the Worde of God Which as it is as much as the sole election by the Byshop giueth to the Prince yea or rather more so if they can shew any further thing due vnto the Magistrate all such as with a sincere minde seeke for the reformation of the Church are alwayes as readye with all humblenesse to giue it as they will be willing with singlenesse to shew it To the place of the Councell of Laodicea and Origin let this be the aunswere The meaning of the Councell in those words Non populo concedendum electionem facere c. We ought not to giue leaue to the people to make electioÌ„ is they shold not bear y e whol sway without the gouernment or direction of the Elders and not to shut out the due consent of the people as is manifest by the counselles going afore as shall hereafter appeare against which this counsell woulde not haue decreed vnlesse it had repealed the same or shewed some reason but most of all by Counselles following who haue authorized the consent of the people and namely the 4. of Carthage which was confirmed in the sixt generall Counsell at Trullum together with that of Laodicia which would not haue confirmed contrary decrees The wordes are these When he speaking of the bishop shal be examined in al these and founde fully instructed then let him bee ordayned with the consent Clericorum laicorum of the Clearks lay men As for that of Origin it is nothing to the purpose which hee sayth of the people except there could be some priuiledge shewed that partly the same or such like as daungerous infirmities were not to be founde in a Byshop The next reason maketh as much against the election of Byshops as of the people seeing they may bee hypocrites as well as the people in all mens iudgement one man is sooner carried with ambition couetousnesse then an whole Church of godly Elders and Christian people vnto disorder And if for the contentions striuings of y â— people y e church may abrogate the consent of y e people in Ecclesiastical elections theÌ„ may she by the same authority disanull Synods and Counselles which as often haue beene full of rage and vprores and of which Nazianzen saith He neuer sawe good issue but that thorough merueilous ambition desire of contention thinges out of order were not remedied but made worse Epist 42. ad procopt Neither for this cause as the promise of God made to counsels is not lightly to bee regarded so ought hee not thus prophanely to reiect it when it is brought to vphold y t consent of y e people Further wher as he saith that Churches both of elder later times haue for that cause abandoned such elections it is to be thought he can bring as much for the proofe of it as hee hath already alleadged which is nothing Whatsoeuer hee can doe the Doctrine of the auncient Fathers and the examples of the elder Churches is farre otherwise For Chrysostome vpon Actes 1. aunswering the Question why Peter communicated the election with the Disciples saith Least the matter should be turned into a brawle and haue fallen to a contention For the elder Churches he cannot be ignoraunt how many haue beene troubled with such inconueniences and yet haue not sought such extream remedies nay the example of good Constantine the Emperour is notable who when the citizens of Nicodemia had chosen an Arrian a runnagate and a rayler on the Emperour he did not take awaye the Churches consent but by his Letters according to his duety mooued them to a newe Theodoret lib. 1. Cap. 19. Againe if these infirmities of the people bee a good reason to take away their libertye in the Election of their Ministers then the contrary vertues which oftentimes haue beene found in them in staying the rage of the Scribes and Pharisies Mat 21. 26. Actes 3. 26. in preferring catholique persons before Arrians and in being themselues catholiques when their Byshops haue been heretiques Zozo lib. 7. cap 7. Theodo lib. 2. cap. 7. is a good reason to maintaine their liberty â—till As concerning his questions following which as they declare rather a mind giuen to cauell at that which he cannot by sound reason auoyde so are they easilye aunswered out of the course and proportion of trueth in the Scripture Women not being in the seate of Magistracy are forbidden by the Apostle to speak in such publique assemblies and exercise authority ouer men Which rule being spoken of y â— mother doth also barre children and such as shall bee in greater subiection vntill by yeares and Christian knowledge they shall by the iudgement of the Church growe vnto the liberty of Christians in that behalfe and then if they followe the greater and better part their sentence ought to preuaile As for the Question of the Patron seeing it is a constitution not of God but of man let the wise and skilfull lawyers define so they do no iuiury to the holie trueth of GOD and his Church The next Question is vayne and friuolous For first by due authoritye diuers be propounded and the Church consent to haue one of them it must needes bee that hee which is approued of the Elders and hath most voices must receiue the charge seeing that can not be sayde to be done with generall consent which thing the Scripture giueth to Church-elections where the fewest but where the moste directed aright do agree And as for them that be absent sicke or imployde if they haue any thing of waight to signify to the Church the Church is to harken vnto them by whome soeuer they sende their aduise And as it is no reason that when eyther sicknesse or theire duetie to the Church doe withhold them that shoulde abridge that libertie so if by negligence or wilfulnesse they bee absente after competent warning the whole Churche is not to depend vppon them who doe not so much loose as cast awaye theire interest in the election Lastly who seeth not that anye idle brayne may make these and such like demaundes both against the rules in the Scriptures and the obseruation in the primitiue Church Where he sayth that in the sixth of the Actes was not done by anie expresse commaundement of Christe but vppon the mutinye of the Greekes agaynst the Hebrewes as it is to bee graunted that it was an occasion why the people did present so that was no cause of their free consent is manifest by the other places where that is maintained without any particuler cause Actes 1. and Cap. 14. If Actes 6. speake of Deacons onely yet Actes 1. Actes 14. speake of Apostles and Elders and theire election by the consent of the people And if the peoples consent
both in assigning of these iust causes of S. Pauls refusall and giuing the Testimony of the Churche to Paul who commēded him to y e grace of God of both which cōcerning Barnabas he keepeth silence Then by how much more right may and ought we to striue with such as haue not only left the work of the Lorde but haue beene annointed with the filthy grease of the vncleane priesthoode and haue receiued the balde marke of the beast and haue in continuall ministry blasphemed the most holy that they should not be taken againe into the fellowship of this worke and seruice of the Gospell Lastly when as the Apostle requireth y ◠all Ministers must haue a good Testimony of those who are without least he fal into the reproch and snare of the caueller 1 Tim. 3. 7. howe cā they auoid this reproch who are to be taunted with their back-sliding with the turning of their coates and with high treasons againste their GOD how are not they in danger of the snare who haue opened a way vnto Sathan and the world how they may deal with them already Nowe vnto this deuine voyce of the Prophets we add the reuerend though humane testimony of auncient time Wherein the sentence of the generall Councel of Carthage alleadged before vs by Cyprian is of most reuerend account Cyprian lib. 1. epist 4. And there be other both many and grienous faultes wherewith Basilides and Marshall are inwrapped such do in vaine go about to occupy the place of a Byshop seeing it is manifest that such men may not gouern the Churche of Christ nor offer vp Sacrifices vnto God Especially when of late both with vs and with all the byshops in the worlde euen Cornelius also our fellow in ministry peaceable and iust and whom the Lord vouchsafed the honour of a Martyr decreed that such men might be admitted to repentance but should notwithstanding be kept from the cleargy or ministery By which also it is manifest y ◠this Counsel was not that prouinciall which concluded rebaptization whereunto Cornelius neuer consented And how Cyprian himselfe mainteineth our reasons may appeare by his discourse in the 7. Epist lib. 1. and his wordes following How dare he challenge vnto him the ministery which he hath betrayed as though it were lawfull after hauing beene at the Alter of the diuell to come vnto the Alter of God And againe Seeing therefore the Lorde threatneth such tormentes and punishmentes in the daye of his wrath to such as obey the Deuill and sacrifice to Idolles howe can hee thinke that he may doe the office of the minister of God which hathe obeied and serued the priests of the deuils or howe doth hee thinke that his hand can be translated to the sacrifice praier of the Lord which was captiue to sacriledge such a crime These may suffice for this point that after we haue mainteined the due honour of God his Embassadors we should also maintain the iust lawfull and holy authority committed vnto them of God Of the authoritie of Ministers of the Worde COncerning the authority of Ministers he speaketh thus Page 53. And heereuppon I woulde bee resolued by the Authour or some other whether hee thinke this indowment of euerye Minister with the execution of all dicsipline admitting but not graunting it to be so by law to be a conuenient pollicy for the vnity quiet of the Churche And whether he him selfe had not rather be vnder the forme now in practize in regard of his owne contentment then vnder the infinite dictatorship of his owne minister or else whether shoulde appellations frō the iudgement of the minister in this respect be allowed of and whether to the byshoppe or to whome and whether the Byshop by this interpretation of lawe shall not retain his authority of executing the Discipline of the Church vpon euery particuler minister and in euery seuerall parish as afore time seeing the authour sayth as well as the Byshop in his diocesse And if he shall what if the Byshop vppon good cause and for abusing of the authority shall suspende the Minister from his iurisdiction of executing Discipline is hee not at the same point he was before what if the Byshop him-selfe dwell in the parish who shall then haue the preheminence and what if the ministers discretion serue him vpon some small or surmised cause to excommunicate some great pear or noble counseller of his parish whose indignation may turne the whole Church to greate mischeefe or to proceede against his Patrone who peraduenture hath a bōd of him to resign And a little after page 54. The author seemeth to me to deuide the discipline of the Church which he would intitle euery Minister vnto into admonition denuntiation and excommunication If by denuntiation he meane the publishing of Excommunication done by him selfe then is it a part thereof If as I rather think he mean the second degree of proceeding vpon faults not publike specified in the 18. of S. Mathew then is this common with the minister vnto all other Christians euen as admonition is being the first degree And where the minister is the party offended and hath not preuayled neither by his admonition in priuate nor his denuntiation before two or three to whome shall hee tell it in the third place where he himself hath the authority to excommunicate and a little after in this respect hee calleth the Ministers priuate and inferiour And againe pag. 59. Yes truely as was touched afore they doe and may execute the discipline of declaring by doctrine according to the Worde of God mens sins to be bound or losed and the censure of rebuking and prouing openly those that doe freeze in the dregges of theire sinnes which are not the leaste partes of discipline which is as much as for auoiding intollerable inconueniences which otherwise would insue as is expedient to bee attributed to euery one c. A little after And if no especiall preeminence might be attributed in matter of execution of discipline to one minister aboue another why is it sayde by S. Paul excommunicating the incestuous Corinthian Absens decreui being absent I decreed seeing they had Ministers of their own and willed the denuntiation afterward to be done openly in the Church And at the time of his absolution Paul being absente saith to whom you forgiue any thing I forgiue also likewise speaking of the Anathematisme of Hymenaeus and Alexander I haue giuen them vp vnto Sathan not naming their owne Minister or any segniory Againe fol. 61. But if hee meane the discipline passiuely I thinke hee and his fellowes haue had some wrong at the cheefe prelates hands a great while If actiuely that euery minister without check might haue the execution of all discipline in his owne Parish I do verily beleeue that this man and others who so earnestly call for they knowe not what If they might not be them selues also Elders auncientes or what you will
e Church of France is ridiculous For thogh they say that Ministers Elders and Deacons are for Church discipline whereby discipline they mean y e order of y e Church generally yet in the gouernment of the Presbytery they ioyne onely the Elders with the Ministers and to the Deacons they giue nothing but the care for the poore and to giue aduise as the French Churches say is not onely graunted to Deacons but vnto all as â—uâ—re occasion shall serue Concerning the difference of widowes T. C. saith Where the conditions fall out which are set downe in 1. Tim. â— there they ought according to that rule to be established Wherin he agreeth with Daneus and the booke of Discipline doth not deny but that where there are such women and causes they maye and ought to bee so founde of the Church and are to serue the Church in such seruice as they shall put them to onelye he findeth no one peculier and proper seruice wherevnto they are tyed but are to bee imployed by the Deacons vnder whom they are contayned and in all this there is no difference worth the speaking of much lesse contradiction In the next y e question is only of a circumstance how long they shold continue wherein if Berna differ somewhat from vs what is that vnto the matter in hand what hurt to the substaunce of the cause The next obiection doth aunswere it selfe that as they vsed them then in some respects as the Deacon to Catechise and such like which they thought the straightes of the Church draue them vnto â—o otherwise for their office we do see they do in their confession acknowledge That the church must he gouerned with the policie which Christ hath ordayned that the offices of elders and Deacons are part of that policie Also y t it is a part of his Gospel is confirmed to be perpetuall to haue such a gouerment in their publike writing to y â— ende As fond is the next out of Daneus which declareth that although the Churches after the Apostles chose the Elders and Deacons to be perpetuall yet it also sayeth there is no such thing defined of in the Scriptures which proueth that it is a circumstaunce which may be altered according to the estate of the Church In the next he quoteth Bucer as repugnaunt to T. C. but nameth no place where we shall finde it Daneus doth not contrarie him but acknowledging it the order of God doth onely shew what was done in smal churches adioyned to the great and populous there beeing sufficient persons in the one which were not at the first in the other notwithstanding the Apostles ordayned it Church by Church Actes 14. And euery Church muste haue them to send for Jam. 5. and the causes of them which are to be assistaunt to the Pastor to administer the ecclesiastical censures to watch ouer the people and admonishe them are a like euery where Now if the Churches be too little the bodyes of seuerall congregations ought so to be ordred as they may haue all the members which Christ hath set for the perfection and beauty af his body vpon all the wals of Hierusalem there must be watch-men and vpon Euery habitation of mount Syon vppon her meetinges and Congregations there must be this presence of God as a cloude by day and a fire by night For looke what places they can bring for the perpetuity and for the right of euerye Church for a Pastour The same or lyke may be brought for the Elder Whereof it commeth that Ignatius sayde as he is alleadged before No Church can stande without her Eldership And Iustinus made his apologie wherein this Eldership is mentioned for all Churches Wherefore whatsoeuer Daneus graunt was done for a tyme till the Churches might conuenientlye bee brought to a conuenient stature neither beeing too high nor too short and to be beautifull bodyes neyther wanting a member nor hauing one too much that muste not preiudice the institution of Christ which Daneus confesseth When he sayth they must looke to the Church house by house and publikely also to the whole and to the sicke Of two Consistories in a city it may be he hath reade of but in one particular Church of two Ecclesiasticall Senates I will then beleeue it when he bringeth vs a more certaine direction then yet hee hath done to finde it and if they did seeing the inconueniences as he sayeth bring it to the right order what preiudise is that to the trueth In the next poynt of counsels there is no contrarietie betweene the admonition and the French Churches order For they say they may definitiuely define causes in a prouintiall Synode although I can not find those wordes by his quotation And the admonition saythe so except there be a generall counsell and they will haue it there For there is no reason if they will order it fitly at hoam to carry it to a generall counsell And I pray are these two so contrary They may ende it and they may ende it except they thinke it better to referre it to a generall counsel In passing from this difference to the next he setteth peremptorilie that it is manyfest that there is no certayne forme of electing Ecclesiasticall officers vsed by the Apostles but reason he sheweth none whereby it maye appeare So that if his Doctorship saye it we muste take it from him as vndoubtedly as if he had it by reuelation For confutation of which folly we may say thus much That seeing in the Ministers examination is to be had of knowledge of doctrine of ripe nesse to expound the Scriptures and in a worde of aptnes to teach it is manyfest that as the gouerning of this action belongeth to the Eldership and is to be done with publike prayers that besides the gouerning Elders there must be ministers who maye be able throughly to iudge and examine to conceiue publike prayer and to deliuer to the Church by doctrine exhortation whatsoeuer is expedient in this case Which thing is euident not onely by the perpetuall reason of it but also by the constant and vnchaungeable practise of the Apostles in the first of the Actes in the sixth of the Acts in the 14. in the 1. Tim. 3. of Tit. 1. Onely it is to be noted that it is not committed to one no not so much as to ordayne much lesse to elect but the ordination is by the Eldership And Timothy could not carry the matter away but had a charge for his owne part To keepe him-selfe pure and not to communicate with other mens sinnes whatsoeuer other Elders did in this case Now as this order is certayne and vnuariable both in the reason and practise of it so the circumstaunces whether it shall be by 6. or by 7. Ministers by a conference only or by a synode sauing where it may be the more the better is left to the disposition of the church Wherefore it is
of preaching Ministers if those already which we haue may be suffered freely to execute their office matters may be so ordered till thorough the blessing of God all Churches bee replenished that no man neede to goe aboue fiue myle to heare a sermon and for the administration of the Sacramentes the Church with the consent of the Godly Magistrates may take such order if it shall so please them that euerye Parish may haue the Sacramentes ministred by a preaching Minister and so they maye bee still edified in the holy fayth and not as hee grosely and vngodlye imagineth of the people of God become more sauadge then Painims and wilde Irish The next is worthy of no other answere then is already made But where hee sayth They are not to bee counted dumb and silent who in their Churches doe exhort dehort comfort and in some degree instruct their Parishioners If he meane those dueties as the Apostle vnderstandeth them to be peculier to the man of God 2. Tim. 3 wee graunt he saith true for so they cannot be seperated from the true resoluinge and opening of the Scriptures But if he meane as his words import by comparing with the rashe dealing of suche as take vppon them to preache beeing not inabled thereunto then must wee needes say that that voyce which is lowde ynoughe in the house euen in the mouth of the Misteres of the family who must Open her mouth with wisdome and haue the doctrine of grace in her lippes Is not lowde ynough for the Pastors of Gods church who must lift vp their voyce alowde to shewe Israell their sinnes and Gods people their transgressions and that the riches of the Worde with wisedome to admonish and exhort one another which the Apostle maketh common to all grounded Christians is not competent for the Scribe who shoulde bee prepared for the Kingdome of God and bring out of his storehouse thinges bothe newe and olde that hee may bee a Pastor according to God his heart to feede them with knowledge and vnderstanding Touching the want of liuing in some Parishes for which cause hee sayth The Byshoppes haue ordered some of meane ability If they obserued the rule of the Apostle that at this time Their aboundaunce mighte supply others lacke that also others aboundance might be for their lacke that as it is written hee that gathered much hath nothing ouer and hee that gathered little had not the lesse Then that obiection neede not bee made In his large discourse to salue the sore of the vnpreaching ministry wherein hee laboureth to disprooue the Abstractors assertion who affirmeth that preaching of the Word is the ordinary meanes to worke fayth hee hath many wordes but no reason For as one wel beateÌ„ leaueth him that mastereth him and turneth to some easier match in steede of proouing out of the Scriptures that reading of the word is ordinarily so honoured that it should bee an ordinary instrument to worke fayth hee prooueth by many places of Scripture a cleane other thing namely that the reading of the Worde receiueth some other blessing then that which is extraordinary which euerye one will graunte him For they are no small blessinges that by publique reading priuate exercise of the word men are prepared made fit for the publike ministry and afterwards are continually quickned in al Christian holines and confirmed in the publike doctrine which is al the sence of the places which he alledgeth And it is as if one shold reason Apollo watered y â— Corinthes therfore Paul only did not plant theÌ„ Where he asketh why Moses is read euery Sabboth in the Synagogues we answere to the former ends and more fully with S. Iames that euery sabboth day he might be preached Neither doth he in any sort satiffie that which is obiected out of the Apostle Rom. 10. seeing hee speaketh of such Preachers as are publikely and solemnly sent verse 15 which we hope he will not vnderstande of bare reading and of such as the Prophet Esaie with admiration of the blessing of the Gospel crieth out How beautifull are the feete of those which preach peace of those which preach good thinges As for his obiection Of many thousandes in the tyme of persecution by bare reading conuerted and that we are not to saye that the people where they haue no preaching Minister be saued by myracle It is not worth an answere For besides that the blessing of God is extraordinary by raysing vp the light of the Gospell in so palpable darkenesse which had couered the whole earth in stead of a thousand he can not shew one who by bare reading without the preachinges then vsed in secreat and the open publishing of the truth by the Martyrs at their death or by ordinary preaching going afore as in the dayes of King Edward of blessed memory haue beene truly conuerted vnto the Lorde In the other poynt he is forced to goe against y â— wool For whereas else-where though to an ill ende namely to dazell the eyes of the people that they shoulde not see the plague of an ill ministery he doth worthely commend the running of the Gospell vnder her Maieâ—â—ies happy gouernment yet heere he is fayne to as ill a purpose farre more vnworthely to abase the same as though preaching were so scant as the Lorde knoweth it is very scant and both Country and Citie doe lament the rarenes of it as that men can not haue fayth but by reading onely which is farre otherwise seeing they ought to haue at the least foure sermons euery yeare it is as if complayning of a great dearth one should aske how they liue that starue not As good is his reason out of Angust The scriptures containe all thinges necessarye to saluation therefore men may ordinarily haue faith by bare and naked reading As materiall is his demaund following whether the declaring and publishing of the Worde be not a kinde of declaration and preaching of the Lordes will vnto vs. And that which he sayth afterwardes of Homilyes that although in a strickt signification they be not preaching yet in some sence they are as well as a Sermon penned is vttered forth to the people for so it may be replyed that the insensible creatures preach and publishe God his will and that the sheepehardes preached though not as he sayth in a strikt signification So women and Children may make a declaration of the wil of God and yet not apt to preach as the scripture requireth of euery Minister Further if he had remembred that the Apostle maketh so great a difference between his owne writing preaching as when he writeth to the Romanes he desireth earnestly to preach vnto them also he need not haue maruailed if good men make such seperation between the reading of good writinges of men the liuely preaching of the holye worde of God especially considering he can not be ignoraunt that the one proceedeth onely from the common gyftes
discretion and Wisdome when the Pastors seate sanctified with God and ordained with so many pretious promises shoulde bee subiect to more follye and headinesse then the chayre of the Byshoppe this inconuenience is as likelye to fall into the Byshoppe as the Minister Further whether is more likely that the Byshop hauing by reason of his countenaunce and Ciuill authoritye bothe more heart-burning betweene the Noble Counsailers and himselfe and being in lesse feare as thinking him selfe better able to shoulder amongest them would be more bold in his conceit then a poore Minister as hee calleth him who neuer woulde for feare but vpon moste necessary and sufficient cause vrged in conscience aduenture suche thing neither if hee woulde could many graue Elders without whom he coulde do nothing bee drawne vnto it especially considering that their feare woulde preuayle where greate Conscience of theire duetie shoulde not ouercome it And maye not this man when his opinion as a Canker shall frette so farre turne all this agaynst the euery of publique rebuking as-well as agaynste the Mynisters execution of Disciplyne for maye he not also demaunde whether the Byshoppe shall retayne his authoritye to preache in his Diocesse and if hee bee in that Parishe who shall haue the preeminence If hee suspende the Minister from preachinge whether hee bee not at the same poynte hee was before And what if the Minister vppon some discretion woulde rebuke openlye some Peere of the Realme vpon bare conceyte or some surmise shall then the duetye of the Minister in Preaching for suche vnitye of the Churche cease and bee counted inconuenient If hee saye no this is the commaundemente of GOD and necessarye for Christian institution so wee saye this is the commaundemente of JESUS CHRISTE and necessarye for holye correction In the nexte place hee asketh to whome the Pastour shall tell it when hee doth admonishe him him-selfe I aunswere for the Pastour easely to the whole Eldership as our sauiour willeth But this question in deed cleane dasheth the sole authority of the Bishop out of countenaunce For to whom shall he tell not to the Congregation of Elders as our Sauiour commandeth but to the Church which standeth of him-selfe only as he desireth not ascending by the stayres of Christ from one to two from two to manye Godly Presidents as Chrisostome speaketh but by the stayres of Rome to descend from two to one and to take the matter wherin he is a party into his own hands and proceed in censure Ecclesiasticall as liketh him-selfe best In the next to blear mens eyes with all he graunteth they may rebuke in publike doctrine bynde and loose by preaching which is a great part of Discipline as though any man were so blynd as when the booke maketh three partes of the Ministers Office ministring of doctrine ministering of the Sacraments and ministring of Discipline as not to see what violence he doth Nay what folly he imputeth to the booke as though they shoulde make three of two For if Discipline be nothing but the open rebuking in preaching and binding and loosing by the same that beeing a parte of ministring the Doctrine by preaching is manifestly contained vnder it and so not onelye maketh one two but carrieth one halfe from one end of the sentence to another placing a thirde betweene and for an vmpier belike leaste they shoulde fall out or else being ioyned orderly togeather should to much annoy him But his reasons which the Jesuites haue shaken against the trueth hefore him do follow Unto which I aunswere that it followeth not that if the Apostle mighte by sole authority excommunicate therefore the Byshop may for an Apostle is of far greater authority then a Byshop is Secondly it is false that the Apostle did onely command vnto them to pronounce the sentence as the Byshop doth the minister giuing them no further authority For although as an Apostle whose duety was to deliuer ordiaunces which the Churches were to obserue and keep hee did iustlye decree as the voyce of Christe and so commaunde them what they should do yet he doth not excommunicate or take it vnto him-selfe but willeth that by the authority of Christ they should caste out not pronounce his sentence of eiection they shold Seperate frō amongst them such that they Should iudge those within that is vnder their authority not that they shoulde only pronounce his sentence of seperation and iudgement which is also most manyfest by his other allegation out of the second to the Corinthes where hesheweth that hee alone would not forgiue but whomsoeuer they forgaue he would forgiue he calleth it the rebuke or censure of many not of him-selfe He sheweth now they ought freely to forgiue he did exhort them to ratifie and by authority confirme their loue towards him Let him therfore take this necessary collectiō cleane against him y ◠if y ◠Apostle wold not nor durst not take vnto himself the sole anthority of excommunication absolution but left it vnto the church How shal any one bishop presume to shut out y ◠Ministers and elders carry it wholy vnto himself His next reason is of as great force The Apostle saith he did deliuer vnto sathan mentioneth neither their Ministry nor segniory therfore he did alone Upon which example I reason thus Paule saith that Timothy receiued grace by the laying on of his hands making no mention of y ◠elders therfore it is false that he saith in the 1. Tim. 4. that he receiued it by the laying on of the hands of the Eldership James Act. 15. saith I determine or iudge Therefore it is false which is after set down y ◠this was the decree of the Apostles Elders with the consent of the Churches But what neede I stande to aunswere this argument which was by a reuerent seruaunt of God aunsweared openly at Paules crosse that although the action be giuen to one who moderated yet neither Peter nor James nor anye Apostle aboue Apostles nor Bishop aboue Ministers had any authoritye ouer others and that as the Senatours were equall in authoritye notwithstanding he moderated so is it amongest the Apostles and Bishops And thus much for his reasons Ours follow that it belongeth to the Pastor the Eldership to excommunicate by the consent of the people If our Sauiour Christ Math. 18. when hee sayth tell the Churche meane not one Bishop because one can not be a number nor one alone a Church and he goeth vpwarde from one to 2. from two to moe not contrarywise from twoo to one neither can it be meant of manye Churches for then it muste bee all the whole Church in the phrase of the scripture and it were a confusion and vnpossibility for many Churches or the whol people to heare all such Ecclesiasticall causes but do meane vpon these reasons a particular Congregation then our assertion is most true and certaine The first we haue proued therfore the second is
matter of the Sacrament of the vbiquiti other points may be reiected of y e papists and their reason must be held as good because they haue as learnedly and truly gathered our diuersities betweene our selues inconueniences following vppon our Doctrine as this man hath doone in the matter of Ecclesiasticall Discipline Next vnto this fowle iniury done vnto religion his iniury done vnto so many worthy lerned men which haue so well deserued of the Church of God nay his inuiry done vnto all the reformed Churches in setting them together by the eares in slaundering them to like of vphold and maintain such a gouernment as hath no witnesse of the Scriptures or ancient times thogh they main tayne it by both such as bringeth with it not onely a maze and labarinth vnto all common-weales but which is at flat ennemity with Princes ouerthroweth their gouernment in Ecclesiastical causes and by sudden alteration turneth euery thing vpsie-downe Which reproch though it be so apparaunt as his owne conscience smote him with the gylce of it so as he would fayne auoyd the shame of it by colourable protestation and that before God not to derogate from any tollerable order established in these externall matters yet he cannot chuse but charge them that they make Princes raunge with the rest of their Seniours and Church-gouernours and that they debar princes of that right of gouernment in matters and ouer persons Eeclesiastical which the word of God al the examples of godly kings of Iudae doe aford vnto vs. The falsehoode of which is not onely manyfest by this witnes of haste as good as a thousand agaynst him but also by the testimonye which so manye worthy wryters nay Princes and Magistrates in their practise and confessions haue giuen to the same Now when the Christian Reader hath considered of this iniurye donne vnto GOD and his Church to vnderstande also firste that these are but Rapsodies gathered at leasure boasted of cast in the teth of some long since such as had other-wyse been vttered ere this but that no market would serue so well this Secondly that although He do as Sanballet send vs in wryting worde that we woulde builde vp the wall of Ierusalem and make our selues kinges when these thinges come to passe and that we set vp Prophetes which may preach of vs at Ierusalem there is a King at Iuda euery Pastor will be Pope yea and aboue the Prince in his Presbytery Yet with good Nehemias we can truely aunswere There is none of these thinges done but thou dost inuent them in thine hart and that all this is but to cast a feare vnto vs for they say their handes shall be weake from this worke that they perfect it not And therefore that our remedy is seeing we vse no meanes but by supplication but by manyfestation of the truth and seeke for nothing but Discipline which by the booke of ordination we promise to further according to our power euē to pray with the sayde Neh. Confirme O God our hands The first contradiction interlased with a lie that they make him Antichrist which refuseth the Presbytery is y ◠we vrge this as perpetual out of the place of Timothy which Caluin doth referre to his ministery which is no contradiction seeing if it be referred to his office yet it being a peece of Timothies office to procure that the thinges which he had learned of Paule shoulde be kept according to their nature and difference perpetually in the Church it sufficiently prooueth the matter in hande otherwise how Could he keepe it vntill the comming of Christ Like to that is the allegation out of the French discipline that those articles which were there contayned touching discipline are not so setled amongst vs but that the vnity he should say vtility of the church so requiring they may be chaunged which I saye is a meere cauill for they speak not nor meane not it of the substance of discipline contained in y ◠word but their maner of setting it downe according to the circumstaunces of their time as is plaine by Their title which calleth it but the firste cast brought of the substance of it as it is contayned in the Scriptures of the Apostles Which substaunce they were not so mad to change though they iudged they might alter thē in many points of circūstances For these sily contradictions let him take these monstrous ones proceding from this y ◠they wil not acknowledge the perfection of y ◠scriptures cōcerning discipline One nūbring vp as a circumstance to come clothed or naked to the supper of the Lord saith of those circūstances None of these circumstances are commauded in the Scriptures nor can by necessary collectiō be granted yet he knoweth it doth necessarily appertaine to comelines The next is that the Abstractor saith the Ministers ought not to wrest any thing into the gouernment of the church without due authoritie from the magistrate which he would haue contrary to that of the admonition M. Cartwright that our life must not be deare as thogh we can not by suffering if need were for so the condition is put aforde that without doing any thing which hath not due authority from the Magistrate His mingling of our sentence with Brownes is but a malitious proceeding Seeing him-selfe testifieth after that wee doe more then mislyke his doinges and writinges in respect of such proceedinges Like to this is that he alleadgeth out of Iunius that if the Prince doe hinder the building of the Church the people may by force of armes resist him Which as it is not in the Page which he noteth nor in all his booke of Discipline so how malitious a slander it is brought vp vpon so worthy a seruaunt of God maye appeare by his whole treatise of the ciuill Magistrat Lib. 3. cap. 5. Where hauing shewed how the Magistrate cannot alter the substantiall poyntes of Discipline and handled that question to one obiecting What shall the Church doe if it be by the Magistrates authoritye commaundement threatning and violence compelled Hee aunsweareth If the Magistrate ordayne any thing contrarie to God his worde that the Ministers shoulde plainly and modestly declare with Paule that they can do nothing against but for the truth But if the thinges be not contrarye to the truth and necessitie that the Churches are bound rather patiently to beare it then to bring the holy ordinaunce of God their body and the common peace into daunger Concerning excommunication shall be spoken after The booke he nameth of obedience I haue not The other matter out of the book deiure Magistratum as not pertayning to vs I purpose not to meddle with especially considering he handleth it more like a Lawyer then otherwise But after he hath alleadged testimonies to prooue that Which none but Papistes and Annabaptistes will deny that it is traiterous to teach the people that they shoulde owe no