this your naturall Countrey for reading and cherishing matter agaynst their ouune suretie and against the state of Realme But trueth is to hye set for you to plulze her out of heauen to manyfestlye lznouuen eo be by your papers obscured and to surely stablished to drouune her in the myrie lalzes of your Sophisticall licorous uuritinges Houusoeuer ye embosse out your glorious stiles they be but Superuacaneae cōflictationes hominū mēte corruptorá 1. Tim. 6. quibus adēpta est veritas qui existimāt quaestū esse piet uuith the fore part of the text there expressed that is but superfluous brauulings of men peruerse in hart Psaal 2. 1. Tim. 3. from uuhom the truth is uuithdrauuen uuhich thinlz that lucre is godlynes c. Ye uuere best to understand Quod qui habitat in coelis c. irridebit omnes Ianes Mābres qui resistūt veritati homines mēte corrupti reprobi circa fidē sed nō proficiēt amplius siquidē amēt ia istorū euidēs erit omni bus quēadmodū il He uuiche is in heauen shal deride all Lannes Mambres uuhich resist the trueth men of corrupt mindes reprobate in the fayth but they shal preualye no longer for their madnes shal be utterly lznouuen to all men as theyrs uuas Ye shoulde do uuell to remember Quod Dominus est qui custodit veritatē Psal 145. 3. Ese 4. quod veritas magua est fortior prae omnibus veritas enim manet inualescit in aeternū viuit obt c. hat it is the Lorde uuhiche preserueth the trueth for the trueth is of great force and is stronger then all other thynges for ueritie uuill remayne uuill preualie for euer and uuyll lyue and hauo the uictory uuorlde uuithout ende Yt weare to be wished that the aduersares of trew religion had not causeto reioyse at these your ouersightes who being not many if men many bee measured by there iudgemēts do so boldye pronounce of the rest of your brethern that they are not of the syncere and lerned protestātes that thei trobell the church that they be contrefaits that yow shall litill ioye and vse us in the defence of the gospel against them that wee are like Iudas who yet god be praysed neuar fell from Christ with that traytor but iustlie depart frome yovv yet but in a Ceremony and that vvee are gone frome yovv for that belike vvee vveare neuar of yovv c. vvho are yovv that vve vvere neuar of yovv By the exemple of S. Paull vvee may say thus much for our selues yovv ar Christians so are vvee yovv are ministrs of Christ so are vvee yovv haue suffered for the Gospell of Christ so haue vvee That vvich yovv contend so much for vvhen yovv haue defendid it to the vnttermost is but the ordynaunce of man And vvill yovv saye that vvee are gone out of the church of god as heretikes Antichristians because vvee dissent from yovv in a tradition Thus in your heat to deface us yovv vvring and and racke S. Ihon. And as for the defence of religion God chosith his avvne chāpions as plesith him Other vvise it is neyther lerning nor vvisdom nor grauity but the lord Iesus vvith the breth of hs mouth that ouerhro vvith Antichrist And yet if yovv had the spirit of meake Moses yovv vvould reioice in the nōber of Prophets and if yovv vveare obedyēt to christ or had pitefull bowells toward the nedie people yow would pray the lord of the haruest to thrust out moe workmen into his haruest and not thrust anye out of yt for such tradicions But to drauue to and onde and to say some thing to these vpon uuhō this labour is bestouued uuho moste glori of this gaye boolze of theyrs I shall vvish them to haue a respect◠to their former callyng and profession of the Gospell And as loue of grace and trueth I trust dyd fyrst induce them so God graunt that they do not finally fight agaynst this grace receyued and uuylsullye peruerte the true sinceritie of the Gospell by treading not aright ouercome by humaine cogitations as uuas Peter for a tyme tyll Paulle dyd reprehende him Yf your dissimulation wear not to manifestest yow might easelie disceaue vs with your faire wordes ād sugered speach Euēnow wee wear Anabaptistes Libertines Iudasses and contēnid in the chirches yea such as were neuar belike of the Church now yow trust the loue of grace and truth did induce vs. Call yow this playne dealinge wee thanke god that he hath gyuen vs grace rather to sustayne such reproche at your handes and what so euar else lawes and magistrates shall lay vpō vs then to peruert the synceritie of the gospel by mynglyng of it with the leuen of Antichrist so may wee call them though the name be changed for it is wel known that changing of names changith not the thing As for example of Peters reprehension makith alltogether against yow for Petar offendid by dissimulacion and myngling the gospell with the leuen of the Iewes lawes wich thing either ignorantly yow omyt or else maliciuslie dissemble Trustyng that they uuyll so aduisedly expende the earnest counsell of these tvvo notable Fathers Maister Bucer ād maister Martir in this their purposed discussyng of the caase that they uuyll finally rest in quiet praysyng God in trueth and ueritie forsalzng errour couered uuith zelous persuuasion to the sauyng of theyr ouune soules to the reioyce of such Christians to uuhō they haue ben teachers as good subiectes ought to do to the glory of God To uuhom be all honour and donanion for euer Amen To the epistlles of Bucer and Martir wee aunsweare that what so euar semed to them tollerable for a tyme is not to be inforced as a perpetuall lawe Their epistls and censures to the contrary are to be shewd And euen in these epistlls wich vow bring they grant all the minors wich yow deny as in the table following doth apere Yow go far in iudgemēt Can yow make this controuersie a damnable errore and a matter of sauing and loosnig soul les so yow do pronouncing seuerlye against vs. God be to yow a more mercifull iudge The examiner AS you pretend in your preface that feare lest the Ministers of Gods worde shoulde be brougth into contempt was the cause of the vnoderly pubblishing of these your smalreasons So it is well knowen that the great care whiche the chiefe gouernours of this Churche of Englande taketh to preserue true and faythfull Ministers from dispite and reproche moued them to retayne and set forth these orders as whereby theyr hope is Gods diligent seruauntes accomplishing also other partes of their vocation myght recouer agayne the auncient dignitie of their forefathers and that Gods holy Worde Sacramentes nowe by the craft of Sathan somethyng basely esteemed myght also haue there due reuerence and honor herein they folowed the steppes of wyse Princes rnd good Fathers who thought it theyr
and borrwed spechis as exagerat diuulged dispensed comprehension expend concor de infarce expect ītimate c. so somtime yow vse them as one not well acquainted with thē Whan yow say publickly diuulged Non loqueris vulgo yow speke not to the common people yow can speke twise as much as yow doe O noble rhetorician yow willnot take so muche aduantage against the inconsiderat writing it is not worthie anye answrere it will faull to ruine of it selfe Nowe wold to god yow wold haue writ as muchas yow could and are hable Yf ye aslize me uuhom I coulde thinlze to be under the protection thereof Surely I can not see that diuers suche as be learned and commōly iudged to be amongest this number can muche ioy to fight under that banner or o runne uuith them to that marlze they shoote at For it is certaine that many uuhō this smale route named London Ministers uuoulde haue ioyned uuith them for their more honestie be farre from their determonations in this question neither so handling it nor so uuolde conclude in this cause as they do VVho houusoeuer some of them do yet a litle stay at the using of this apparel in themselues yet be not of their iudgement to condemne the thyngs of uuyclzednes nether in them selues nor in the use of them as the Ministers in this Church of Englande be caled no uue to uueare them And therefore houusoeuer they uuoulde uuyshe a libertie to theyr ouune consciences reserued tyll they may see more in the cause yet be they farre of to condemne theyr brothers uuhose consciences can serue them for obedience salze to use them Yow wold fayne perswade mē that no lerned men are of oure iudgment but wee kowe that the gretist part of the best lernid yea of them that weare them were of this opiniō No man to our knowleg cōdemnith the things nor the vsers of them of wickednes And yow your selfe in your examination often affirm that wee graunt them to be indifferent And therfore I must nedes uuype a great many out of their brotherohed in their singularities enteyned in this last uuriting and say Thei be but a ueri feuue in them selues other then such as haue ben eyther unlearnedly brought up most in prophane occupations or suche as be puffed up in an arroganere of them selues peraduenture chargeable to suche vanities of assertions as at this tyme I uuyll spare to charge them God graunt they do not by this degree fall to the sectes of Anabaptistes or Libertines uuhere unto some uuyse and zelous men of their ouune frendes Patrones feare they do malze poste haste one day openly to professe Yf yow with all the lerned of your side wold procure us a free and a generall disputacion to haue the matter quietly debated ād indifferentlie iudged yow shoulde se a great nōber redie to defēded our cause with their tongs whom yow now blot out with your penn for it is well known that not onelie a few vnlerned brought vp in prophane occupations as yow vncharitable and slaūderuslie report but a gret nomber of wise godlie and lernid men such as haue bene and are the eldest prearchers in England neuar stayned with any recantacion or subscription brought upp in all kind of lerning both of artes and toungs such as haue the name not onelie at home but also in forraine nations to be in the nomber of the best lerned in the realm agree with us in this cause and of them partly haue wee lernid this iudgment Wherfore yow haue lost more credit with all indifferent men by this your slanderus defacing of vs then all your examination is able to pourchase to your cause Of the same spirit it procedith that yow charg us with post hast towards the sectes of Anabaptists and Libertins wich ar fo farr frome such detestable heresies as yow are frome christian charitie so to iudge of vs. As ar the argumēts of multitude customes orders and lerning are fet from the schole of papists whom by this kind of reasoning yow more confirme in their errour than strēghthen your cause or weaken ours To be called from an occupation to the mynisterie of the church is no more reproch nowe to men mete for that function then it was to Petar Paull and the rest of the apostoles Yf they were vnmete than the Bishopes are to be blamed for admitting them and most of all for retayning and daylie multiplyng others whom nothing ells but a capp and a Surples do make cōmendable VVhereupon the aduersaires af true religion can uuinne no great reioyce at these mens ouersightes as being but a uery feuue and counted in deede none of the sincere and learned protestauntes houusoeuer for a tyme thei seemed to be amongest us For though they be gone out from us yet they uuere belylze neuer of us So that the aduersaries shall haue the uuhole state of the Clergie in place and reputation for learnyng uuy sdome and grauitie concordely ioyned to be uuholy against them to defend the sinceritie of the Gospel though a feuue of these malze suche adoo in our Churche as stories malze mention uuas euer uuont some to ryse in sundry tymes to trouble the state of their Churches uuhere they duuelt And good it uuere that these Englis he Louanistes dyd no to muche delight them selues uuith any hye reioysinges as though the Prince uuoulde for disprouyng of a feuue counterfaites dislylze the uuhole state of the rest of the Cleargie uuho shall by Gods grace be able ynough to defende the true religion of the Gospell uuhiehe they maye heare houue the Prince doth professe dayly and openly to maintaine and defende to the uttermost iote of the uuorde of God uuith renoncing asuuell all forrayne aucthoritie as all forrayne doctrine not surely grounded upon this stable roclze of Goods uuorde Their faunuing flatterie prefaces their greatly conceyued hopes their busie dispraisyng of better learned then them selues be can not so be uuitche uuise mens heades or hartes but they cā discerne trueth frō falsehood deuotion frō superstitiōpapistrye from the Gospell tirany frō discipline Christ frō Antichrist And therefore sirs if ye lzneuue houne feuue these are by uuhom ye delyght to slaunder the learned honue lytle uue thinlze the rest of the Apostles discrepited though Iudas fell out frō them and houue these be regarded and accompted of so longe as they thus continue and finally houue lytle uue shall ioy of them and use them to take the Gospell in defence agaynst you Ye uuoulde not be so busie to infarce in your boolzes the reproche of these men to lade other uuith enuye the breath of uuhose penues ye shall neuer be able to aunsuuere say and uuryte uuhat ye can yourboolzes so fast and hastyly sent oner in great nūbers beyng not muche feared for any substaunce that is in them may for a time relieue you to your sustentation may be gaineful to your Printers Pedlours may peraduenture ieoparde your frendes uuithin
all be donne to edefinge not to be ment of domme thinges but thinges that wearred spoken or songe therfore was it necessarie to proue them out of godes worde SubstancialiÌ„e Wher you saye our Minor is not proued although we are men of occupation yet wee vnderstande that a vniuersall minor negatiue can not be well coÌ„firmed Yet our particular minors they ar al redie touched in the Table and herafler as you giue coccasion shal be particularlie proued The examiner The fyrst discorse here is of edifiyng or buyldyng the Churche of Christ which all faythfull Ministers do acknowledge to be theyr bounden duetie and seruice accordyng to the graces of God bestowed vpon them and neuer to hinder and plucke downe awhit wherof much more myght be said then is here rehearsed if it were nedefull to wade further in so worthy a matter Herewithall in textes and expositions you woulde not greatly haue enlarged your booke Ephes 2. if it had not ben to make al gods workemen sauiÌ„g your selues suspected to the world as pluckers downe aÌ„d destroyers of Gods most holy TeÌ„ple Fphes 4. buylded vppon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophetes when as through the grace of God workyng in theÌ„ by true and sounde doctrine in this apparell and orders manye earnest labourers of the lordes do trauayle to bryng his people to the full knowledge of Christ houesoeuer you haue entangled and accombred the consciences of your hearers So then to the two fyrst places that be out of the second and fourth Chapter to the Ephesians no more needeth to be spoken but that all the carefull buylders in this Churche of Christ whiche haue other commaunded or receyued these lawfull orders fyrst as they haue before time so do still take paynes to amplifie and beautifie the spouse of Christ with the precious iewels of spirituall wysedome And secondly do vtterly forsake vayne vngodly and vnprofitable inuentioÌ„s of man whiche two thynges you seeme to require by your note in a true preacher and can not denye them yf you be not wylfull to be in very many vsyng this apparell The Aunsvverer You confesse it is the dutie of ministers allwaies to builde and neuar to hinder or pluke downe but hear of oure texte and expositiones you wolde not haue iudged so rashlie yf you had remembred what our Sauioursayth Nolite iudicare Mat. 7. c. Iudge not Wee do not affirme that they are all destroiers and pullers down of the Temple that weare the paparell but wee may well say that all the destrioyers and pullers downe are glad to be couerid in this Apparell And that the Ceremonies and apparell tend not to edification but destruction for that no man by them is directed to Christ and the sinceritie of the Gospell neyther yet prouoked to amendment of lyfe but to Antichrist and the remenbraunce of poperie Caluin sayth that al Ceremonies are corrupte and hurfull except men be directed by them vnto Christ And for these Cerimonies that are vsed in papacie they are seperated from doctrine so that they kepe men in signes lacking all fignifications thus fare Cal. Inst li. 4 cap. 10. sect 15. Secondly whether they refuse all vaine vngodly and vnprofitable inuentions which receue this apparell must be tried by the conclusion of the matter Yet wee are not more to be accused ffor condemning the receuers then you for condemninge vs the refusers agreing with the most excelent reformed Chirchis of Fraunce Germanie and â—cotland and will yow see how yow haue setforwardes godes building in the Cytie of London Did you not in one day vnfurnish and quite dispatch of work men all the placis in the Cytie whereas any greate bildinge was and haue you not heitherto kept backe those workmen ffrom ther worke And haue you furnished these places with such diligent laborers againe and what can this be els but to stay hinder and plucke downe godes building The examiner Vpon this vniuer sall sentenc That Christes Ministers must huilde vp and not pull downe you determine that Vicars Curates and parishe Priestes ought to admit no orders whiche may not manifestly appeare vnto them that they do edifie Geuing eueri man in his paryshe an absolute authoritie muche more then they had before the prophecie was fulfilled Kynges shal be thy Nursefathers Esa 4â— and Queenes thy Nurses The Aunsvuerer Wee suppose that euerie pastor ought to be so far lernid that he may iudg of such matters or else wee thinke him not worthie to be a minister and what inconueniens commith of this affirmation wee do not yet see forasmuch as S. Paull willith euerie man to be certenlye perswaded in his own mynd whether it be lawfull or no though the matter be neuar so indifferent For he that doubtith is condemnid because he wantith faith Esa 49. and that wich is not of faith is syâ—ne Werfore when the scripture biddith all things to be done to edesie A good pastor should admit nothing but that wich he is perswaded will edifiâ— 1. Sam. 14. And of this iudgement is that reuerend â—father Peter Martir in plaine Words who putting a difference betwen Ecclesticall and polliticall lawes saith Spectanda est in in Ecclesiasticis â–ª Eutaxia in politicis autem parendum est quamuis tu eam euxtaxiam non videas In ecclesiasticall lawes good order must be considered but in polliticall lawes thow must obey allthough thow see not that good order But where yow name vicars curats aÌ„d parrish prests wherof wee made no mention in our declaration leuing out Archibishopes Bishopes Deanes Archedecons Prebendaries Cannons and Parsons wee marnell what yow meane vnles yow thinke none of them so mad as to ioyne with vs in this cause Isa 49. Yet shall she porest mynisters euen euerie vicar curat and parrish priest as yow call them haue as great authoritie in the ministration of the word and Sacraments in his Church as any of these prelates whom yow spare to name Wee confesse that kings and Quees shold be Nurcies of the Church but not Lordes of it not of our consciens wich the wordes immediatelie following in Isaye doth playnlie declare bownig down ther face to the erth they shall worship the and licke the dust of thy fet The authoritie that princis haue ouer the churchis is a seruice to defend it and to seke the profit therof raither then a prerogatiue to burthen it with superfluus and hurtfull Ceremonies at there pleasure The Examiner Yet you fearyng the inconueniences that must nedes folowe so an absurde an opinion remember your selues in the next lynes and saye That if you myght but conceyue an hope that the vse of these thynges myght helpe forwarde the Lordes buyidyng you woulde not refuse them So one tyme all orders not manifestly edifyng must be condempned another tyme yf you may hope that they wyll do well you will admit them This your chaungeable opinion well weyed differeth not much from that straunge saying of
to hym And agayne Aunsvver a foole accordyng to his foolyshnes lest he may seme to himself to be vvise It may novv of good congruence be uerified in the cause vttered in question for order of ministers appareill It is not vnlznovven vvhat argumentes and conclusions vvhat letters and vvrytynges haue ben vsed and tossed from man to man in secrete sort for these tvvo or three yeres to disprouue the libertie of the chyldren of God in the vse of externe thynges to conuel the obedience that true Subiectes shoulde perfourme to the auctoritie of theyr Prince to the lavves of the Realme established to the discredityng and condemnation of such vvhich in a vvhole conscience thynlze it lavvefull for them to vveare and yet charitably beeryng vvith the vvealznes of such vvhose consciences are entangled vvith fearefull scrupulositie tovvarde the same IT is well knowen that the matter was not handled so secretlie these ii or iii. yeres but openly setforth in the pulpit these seuen yeres without any grete contradiction but it may be said this is your houre Wee may loke for great truth in the body of your discourse when your begnnyng is so farced with lyes This cause was not taken in hand to disproue your libertie but rather to prouue that your libertie shold not be made necessity as the lettar of a certaine bishop written to à noble man witnessith And to teach you to use your libertie to profit and edification according to those sayings all things are laufull for me but all things do not edifie Let no man seke his owne profit but an other mans neyther to conuell for so yow terme it the obediens to the Prince and her lawes but to teach cheife obedience to god and his word nor to discredit and condemne them that can away with them for wee allwais iudged of them as S. Paull willith they staÌ„d or fall to their Lord for if wee had condemnid them wee wold neuer haue coÌ„municated with them but to discharg our own consciences and to labor for the synceritie as well in rites as in doctrin As for the charitable bearing wich yow speake of doth litill appere in these sayiÌ„gs subscribe or be depriued wear or preach not This is but small bearing The small vveight of theyr reasons and argumentes so set out theyr cause so harde to defende vvithlearnyng so many graue vvryters of iudgement agaynste them the matter sullye debated by the best learned men of the Realme of late vvith thorder of the counsayle talzen in the tyme of blessed memorie Kyng Edvvarde and fully concluded caused diuers men beyng yet offended vvith suche vnaduised vvrytynges to holde theyr pennes vvithout more confuting or disprouyng the same as vvas easye for them to do partly stayed by the fyrst part of Salomont counsayle Ne respondeas stulto iuxta stultitiam suam ne efficiaris ei similis Yea moreouer charitie borne to the aucthours of such vvrytynges moued some men to lzepe pacience and the counsell of S. Paule helde others in silence vvheras he chargeth his scholer Timothe thus Stultas ineruditas questiones respue setens eas parere pugnas porro seruum Domini non oportet pugnare sed placidum esse erga omnes propensum ad docendum tolerantem malos cum mansuètudine erudientem eos qui obsistunt si quando det illis Deus â—oenitentiam ad a gnoscenduÌ„ veritatem resipiscant a diaboli laqueo captiab eo ad ipsius voluntatem Foolyshe and vnlearned questions put from thee remembryng that thei do but gender stryse for the seruaunt of the Lorde must not striue but must be peaceable vnto all men and apt to teache and one that can suffer the euill in melzenes and can infourme them that resist yf that God at any tyme vvyll geue them repentaunce for to knovve the trueth that they may comme to them selues agayne out of the snare of the deuyll vvhch are novve taken of hym at hys vvyll These be wordes of course common to all them that go about to ouertrhow any cause wich because they are brought in without prose wee may stand to the deniall The argumeÌ„ts wear more weightie than yow cold auoid and whan yow haue by Gods word confuted them than yow may more iustlie call them weake The cause so easye to defend with lerning and scripture that yow neuar durst assaile it so many graue writers against yow the matter neuar fully debated by the best lerned in this Realme but of necessitie enioyned them caused yow to staye your pen vntill now their necessarie defeÌ„ce caused yow to write soÌ„thing least yow should be thought to haue nothinge Yf the rule of S. Paull had bene kept this question of popish Ceremonies had not bene thus ernestlie moued nor so sharplie folowd But Paulls place is wroÌ„glie alleged by yow for that he meanith questioÌ„s of genelogyes c. wich pertayne nothing to doctrin nor disceplyne in churchs of Christ The question of rites and ceremonies yow knowe Paull him self and the writers both olde and newe haue diligentlie handled and therfore may not be thought a foolish and vnlerned question To enforce this text at this tyme in the particuler appliyng therof shal be spared yet for hope of their amendement uuho hauer disorderlye behaued them selues To exagerat the matter agaynste them vvith muche alleaging learned mens iudgementes many dead some yet alyue othervvise then to in struct theÌ„ by a fevv reported shal also be spared as it vvould haue ben vvyshed the matter vvhooly myght rather vvith scilence haue ben styll buryed But novv the prouocation of a treatise so solemlye aduouched so confidentlye affirmed of very late so publiquely by print diuulged and dispearsed hath made this vvryter novve to thynlze it hygh tymn tocall to remenbraunce the latter part of Salomons fentence RespoÌ„de stulto iuxta stultitiaÌ„ suaÌ„ ne videatur sibi sapieÌ„s Not yet profossyng by this examination to say halfe so much as myght he spolzen in the comprehension af the cause nor talzyng so much aduauntage agaynst that inconsiderat vvrytyng as it myght deserue to be charged but briefely to put to the aucthours consideration the vuealznes of the reasons the sophistication of the arguments of that discourse unuuorthy of it selfe to saye ihe truetht to be once aunsuuered as beyng so uuritten as euery man but such as be eyther to parcially bent to the cause or for lalze of learnyng can not expende the substaunce of the Vurityng maye perceyue that it muste nedes fall to ruyne decaye of credite of it selfe though no man should bende any force at it houu soeuer in the heate uuich is nouu talzen thought to be nuittyly grauely inuincibly uurytten but uuorthy in deede to be put out in the name of such uuhom it uuould speciali defende A good deuine shold spare at all tymes to inforce textes of scriptures wich he ought rather rightlie to applie according to the meaning of the holie gost As yow deligiht in ynkehorne terms
which seke not to plese men but to shew them selues the seruāts of Christ which for the more detestation of Antichrist and clerer attestation of Christian liberty and for auoiding of strife and dissention wish and labor to abolish all remembrancis of Idolatri As for the sectaries called Audiani they misliked the fathers of Nicean counsel for that they wold not kepe Estar at such tyme as the Iewis kept their passouer and therfore they are more like vnto them then wee that carenot how like thei seme in outeward rites unto the papists The examiner Surely the examples whiche you bring in of wicked Kinges and false Prophetes might haue well at this time in this cause ben pretermitted as whiche concerne matters expressely forbidden or commaunded by God but that you woulde intimate to some not well stayed that the Prince in these thinges suffereth them contrary to Gods word and her lawfull aucthoritie whiche thankes be to our heauenly father for his abonndaunt blisinges most richly powred vppon her is altogether otherwayes or that all preachers and subiectes obeying so orderly demaūdes are but false Prophetes and flatterers This is very sore iudgement to condemne all your brethren for man-pleasers that obey their supreme gouernour vnder god in matters indifferent of whom as you knowe a great number when flaterie was muche more gaynefull refused to do it with no small daunger The aunsuuerer Yf nothing be expreselie forbidden by gods word but that which is expreselie named in gods word the Masse the Pope Purgatoire with a thowsand monsters be not expressely forbidden and thefore maye be named things indifferent but yf all that be contrarie to gods worde which is contrary to any generall rule of holy Srripture wee haue showed before that these thinges are not indifferent because they are the glorius badges of the enimy with whome wee maye not in any such thing communicate they offend the weake greue the godly confirme the obstinat aedifie not maintaine supersticion make contention are vncomely c. To aunswer your vncharitable surmise of our indgment were nedles because it bewrayith it selffe yet to vncouer your Sophistrie because of the simpell it shall not be amisse All though wee affirme that these things suffred or set forth by the Prīce are be sides gods worde but being perswaded by you and such as you are that they may stand with gods word your Sophistry is ab ignoratione elenchi or a non causa procausa The examiner Epi. gene And if you marke your note well Flatterie hath not ben alwayes the sure marke of false teachers For your shall reade S. Iude foretell of some that should despise them that were in aucthoritie Aug. Epi. 48. You shall reade of the Donatistes Rogations Circumcellions and Papistes that are rather disobedient to iust and good lawes of Princes for that as they sey they see not in the writinges of the Euangelistes and Apostles any suche example The aunsuuerer None despise them that be in authorite more then flatterers which speke fayer to their faces and condemne them in their harts The Donatists Epi. gene Aug. Epla 48. Rogatians Circumcellians and Papists haue all wais bene flaterers wher they haue hope to be entertained To such disobedient parasites you do vniustly and vngentlie compare your Brethern The examiner Nowe for the maner and condition of true Prophetes Eze. 13. whiche you assure vs is to aduouche alwayes Haec dicit dominus Thus sayeth the Lorde It is maruaile you remembred not in what thinges that was then necessary and wherein it is requiered nowe Trueli you are not so vnskilfull but that you knowe sundry seuerall thinges to be left to their iudgement who may for the more handsome feeding of Christessheepe 1. Cor 11. and not for their owne purse belly or kitchin say with S. Paule ¶ Other thinges when I come I will set in an order Al rites and fashions which euery natiō beleuing mai stablishe and vse are not distinctly rehearsed in Scripture that the minister may say of euery one of them Thus sayeth the Lorde It is sufficient in suche thinges yf they truely serue to EVTAXIA that is seemly order to retaine the which the Church hath power to abrogate olde and make newe lawes wherein sayeth Doctour Peter Martir these conditions must be obserued ¶ First that they be not contrari to Gods word Then that iustification and remission of sinnes be not sought for in them Thirdly that the multitude ouerwhelme not the Churche Fourthly that they be not decreed as necessari and not to be changed Last of all that they be not so vrged as yf he sinned dampnablie that sometime omitteth them without offence or contempt Suche lawes then albeit they be not in plaine termes and wordes mentioned in the scripture yet hauing these properties they are not to be reiected as yf they were by no maner of meanes in the worde of God The aunsuurere It is nedles you thinke in orders and Ceremonies to say hoc dicit Dominus Thus saith the lorde because sainct Paull saith other things whan I come I will set in order This is neither good logicke nor witty Sophistrie what a consequent is this S. Paull will set things in order whan he comith Ergo he will not or nede not set them in order according to the word of god S. Paull is wont to giue warning whā he spekith of things wherof he hath no commaundement of the Lord. Thus saye I and not the Lord. 1. Cor. 7. That I speke I speke it not afler the lord 2. Cor. 11. But when he prescribed orders to the Church of Corinth cōserning the reuerent vse of the Sacrament he saith that which he deliuered he receyuid of the Lord condemning all for disorder that was not receyued of the Lord. The same night he was betrayed Yow will cauil of the tyme place and companie Wee are not so ignorant how foeuar wee haue bene brought vpp in prophane occupacions but wee can distinguiss he and make a difference of things done at the institution of the Sacrament that some pertaine to the Sacramēt as the bread the wyne the sitting at the table the blissing the breaking the deliuering the receyuing the preching of the Lordes deth In the which action wee thinke nothing was omitted that serued ayther for reuerence of the Sacramēt or for decent and orderly mynistrīg of the same Therfore what so euer is addedor changid for these causis at the lest wee thinke it superfluus if it be not presūptius to seme more wise in these poyncts then Christ And his Apostells that were contented with this pure and innmingled institution Other thinges there were in the institution that were no part of it nor pertaynid to it as the tyme at night after supper the place a parler the certayne nomber 12 and suche like These are indifferent for wee reede in the scripture that all these circumstancis were chāged And of such are the rules of D. Peter
mens heades The Aunsuuerer Yf wee had as large consciencis as yow haue gowne sleaues perchaunce wee nede not feare but for anie thing that yow saye wee haue greate cause to feare lest wee offend ād brīg our doctrine that wee haue taught into doubt and that wee shall teach into supicion The examiner This many men thynke very straunge in you that you stande in greater feare that men will beleue rather your apparell then your wordes your coate then your preachyng your owteward shewe then your inward minde often opened by speache and plainelie set before them to perceiue What do you iudge of gods people that they be so muche without sense vnderstanding Yow feare the thing your selues imagine and imagine euen what you list The Aunsuuerer Wee iudg gods people to be as by experiens wee find them and it is raither like they will beleue our doings then our sayings yf wee saye all markes of Idolatrie are to be abhorred manie seing vs vse them our selues will thinke thear is no great daunger in vsing them nor truth in our wordes what so euar wee saye of them yt is the best persuasion if the tonge the cote talke theache one thing Ar for offence gueing our protestation will not excuse vs no more then if a man wold willfullie dig a pitt breake a bridg or lay a log in the waye then cry out saye O. take hede you fall not wee must stopp holles not make them take awaye stombling blockes not laye them then bid men bewar of them The examiner Here next may be seene your seuere and sharpe sentence vpon all you brethren and felowe ministers when yow in your selues pronounce but hell and dampnation to all them which vppon sincere ▪ loue towarde the flocke of Christ 1. Cor. 16. hauing a wide doore opened vnto them by gods singuler grace to spreade abrode the knowledge of Christ haue not such regarde in whar apparell they shoulde enter and feede as to be found faithful dispensours of the misteries of God In which paynefull seruice yf they go forwarde to the ende shall heare not that terrible voyce vpon the naughtie seruaunt which you vtter but the confortable saying to the good seruaunt well god seruaunt c. The aunsuuerer Nay here may be sene your false and vncharitable interpretation to say that we threaten to others that wee fear to our selues Of other we saye once againe they stande or fall to their Lorde who by his fyre shall bourne all the haye strawe and woode and saue all them that holde fast vpon the onelye foundacion Iesus Christ The examiner In the iudgement of all wise men you had done right well Luk 19. yf you had either stayed your penne in this place or spoken more plainly for the discharge of some when as you notifie to the world that the earnest solicitours of these matters were blouddy persecutours and still beare backe in the religion of Christ Surely the sagest and sobrest in this common wealth Church conceiue a better opinion of them that first stablyshed these thinges by lawe and of them also which of duetie nowe cal vpon the execution of the same as they may rightlie of them by whom chiefelie all Romishe religion with superstition and errour was through the spirite of God bannished this Relame Well howesoeuer it hath pleased you for spite against some one to bring a great number of very godly in obloqui and suspition yf the thinges required be indifferent in them selues and not so horrible daungerous for this Churche at these dayes as the prudent and chare ouerseers iudge euen as it were in the sight of Christ to whom they must render an accompt for his deare flocke what matter is it who they be that call vpon you to accomplishe your duetie Vnlesse you thinke that no man ought to make generall lawes in the like cases but let euery Curate be supreme gouernour in his owne parishe which loose imagination what incōuenience it will drawe with it you may well consider Howe innocent handes they haue from the bloud of all Gods Saintes who vnder a most godly vertuous and pure regiment deale with you all maner of wayes that you slippe not from your loyall obedience yea though they shoulde vse towarde some of you charitable seueritie terrible lenitie auengement medicinall as S. Augustine setteth out the true ecclesiasticall discipline not only the wise within this Realme vnderstande but the enemies also without contra li Petil. li. 3. cap. 4. confesse The Aunsuuerer All wyse men be not of one iudgement but they may easelie see if they wil that to be trew which wee haue sayde that the earnest soliciters in these matters seke not the aduancement of gods glorie but the defacing of the Gospell Yow allwayes burthen vs wythe enuye as though we ment all them that by anie meanes medle with the matter to be blodie persecuters nay all godlie men wish and wee as gods Ministers may speake that those prudent and chairie ouerseers which tythe mint and anice wolde raither execute mercie and Iudgment mercie in prouiding moe then ten thowsand Preachers not hindering those few that are Iudgment in disserning betwene halfe Papistes Hietlinges and faithfull and learned preachers Iudgment in restoringe discipline to the Churche withoute the which it is no perfecte Church therbie to punishe the euill and cherish the good not to be so straight in exhortinge trifles as though nothinge wanted to the perfection of the Church but the apparell of ministers The examiner But because your enemies as you surmize put you in minde of your duetiful subiection you will not be cowards you say yeelding your weapons to your aduersaries handes As if by wearing this apparell the sword of Gods worde were wrested out of your handeling 1. Cor. 10 where as you knowe well enough in these orders you may manfully caste downe strong holdes ouerthrowe imaginations and euery high thing that exalteth him selfe against the knowledge of God and bring into captiuitie all vnderstanding to the obedience of Christ yea and take vengeaunce of all disobedience as S. Paule describeth at large the faithful preachers weapons and fight The aunsuuerer We count Hipocrites and papistes to be our Enimies not such as you surmize to who me we sholde yeld the power of gods worde though wee kepte the bookes yf wee did that which wee haue taught to be contrarie The examiner Nay God graunt this vndiscrete dealing of yours be not a voluntarie throwing awaye of your weapons in dede marueillous daungerous also to Christes people committed to your charge whyles you open thus a gappe for hirelynges to crepe in and defende not your flockes from the great peryls of heynous errours and vngodlynesse of lyfe because some hauyng interest aswell as you in your sheepe shewe vnto you an orderly poy at or two The examiner This is vntimelie iestinge to knowe we are violentlie thruste out and saye wee willinglie leaue our