among brethren The assumptiō or second part of the former Argument is granted by the answerer answerer himselfe in his answer to the first Argument yea it is manifest by the good successe of their ministery from God in the sayd Argument mentioned Yea and that this argument from the blessing of God upon their ministery is of force and much to be respected appereth by the words of the blind man reported with commendation by S. Iohn This is a mervelous thing that ye know not whence he is and yet he hath opened myne eyes Now we know that God heareth not sinners but if any man be a worshipper of God and doth his will him heareth he And verse 33. If this mā were not of God he could haue done nothing Was this argumēt good from the opennyng of the eyes of the body of one that was borne bodily blind and is it not much stronger from the openyng of the eyes of the minde of many that are borne spiritually blind The further answer of M. Powel to this third Argument conteyneth nothing but that which is partely answered before and partly to be answered afterward Therefore I passe the same by and come to the 4 argument The Fourth Argument The Israelits so respected a bodily deliverance wrought by Ionathan for them that they saved him from danger of death Ergo Much more ought this Christian high Court of Parliament being not a company of rude souldiers but the cheife flower of this Realme and representing the whole Realme so to respect the spirituall deliverance of themselues and of many other wrought by the Ministers now silenced etc. That they speake what lawfully they may for all lawfull releefe of them against their troubles The marginall notes G. Powel a Ionathans case and the Schismaticall Ministers is altogether unlike And the urging of this zeale having not the like cause seemes to be dangerous But I spare my brethren The author urgeth not this argument from Ionathan as from a like example but from a comparison a minore ad maius from the lesse to the greater Therefore though there be not the like cause yet there being greater viz. From consideration of a spirituall deliverance there is no danger therin The author by this example moveth only the Parliament to be zealous for the saide Ministers Is there danger now in the zeale of so wise judicious an assembly It is also acknowledged by the answerer afterward that the Israelits did justly rescue Ionathan Is there any danger then by an example of them that did justly to provoke the wise Parliament to pleade with a wise and religious Prince for the Ministers Wherin then doth this answerer spare vs that seeketh every corner to find something for which he might if he could hang us G. Powel b The greater is their sinne whose superstition and wilfull obstinacy hath restrained their libertie and made them unserviceable in the Church Reply Is it not a strange thing I had almost saide sinne that it should be accounted sinne superstition and wilfull obstinacy yea such as makes men vnserviceable in the Church in feare of sinnyng against God soberly to refrayne from humane Ceremonyes and yet swearing swaggering rioting gamyng dronkennes whoredome adultry even in the sight of the world should not make men unserviceable etc That such things are in many suffred and countenaunced in the ministry is knowne to many of the Parliament house If his Christian Majestie were also rightly informed thereof I doubt not but that thinges would be otherwise ordered Further answer to the 4 Argument The Ministers did but their duety etc. If men should alwayes be so answered when in their necessities they should require some help and comfort in regard of some former kindnes would not men cōdemne such answerers of great ingratitude in humanitie viz. Thus to be answered that which you haue done was but your duety G. Powel Ionathans example is unlike unto the suppliants For Saule in hypocrisy had made a rash vowe etc. But the actions of our Soveraigne are not so exorbitant etc but advised and just etc. See how wise the children of this world are in their kind Reply The author altogether wisely and purposely as it seemeth concealed the name of Saule in the argument that he might reason from the comparison of the worke onely of Ionathan in a bodily deliverance for the better regard of the Ministers now silenced etc. In respect of the spirituall deliverance of the people by them This I say he doth without any mention at all of Saule that so the worke might be generally and simply respected in it selfe without any perticular eye unto Saule out of whose hāds the people delivered Ionathan He respected their thankefulnes in delivering Ionathan from death without respect of the person that would haue put him to death Agayne I know not why the answerer should thinke the author to meane rather our gracious King as answerable to Saule then the Prelats the cheife and principall actors in all wrongs and injuries done unto the Ministers pleaded for except that either he had rather impute all hard dealing to his Majestie than to the Prelats or that hereby he would provoke the more wrath against the author and all by him supplicated for whom before notwithstanding he seemed greatly to spare Further if the Israelits justly rescued Ionathan as the answerer confesseth they did iustly much more iust is it that many ministers should be releeved in their troubles If yet they presse the author further for meanyng Saule and comparing our King unto him as Saule was the Lords annoynted what is the danger wherein the answerer before should bragge of sparing his brethren Can he gather any undutifulnes towards his Majestie Or can he imagine the author to haue intended any forcible meanes to be used by the Parliament that sitting to make lawes against force and violence towardes any subject must therefore much more themselues be farre from offering any force and violence towards their Soveraigne Doe the words in the Argument to be Zealous and earnest import any such matter Force and violence of any especially of subjects against their Princes is rather of Popish fury and madnes then of any Christian zeale and earnestnes Besides the often most Honorable mention of his Majestie in the Arguments and his expresse pressing the Parliament to doe all in humility modestie in the next argument yea that they should not onely use boldnes but christian boldnes yea that they should put forth all their giftes and graces of knowledge Zeale compassion modesty and humility yea finally that in the preface he petitioneth nothing by him written to be understood of any other meanes then good honest lawfull peaceable and agreable to every mans calling All these things doe abundantly cleere the author from all undnetifull intent and meanyng against his Majestie That the Israelits did not in such humility speake for Ionathan to Saule as they should
such a cause take heed you be not found a servant of men Answer But if any in authority haue cōmaunded you this worke did they also commaund you to rayle and revile your antagonist as you call him in such manner as you doe It is lamentable that any in authority in such a Christian Church should either commaund any such thing or allowe of it being done But it is more lamentable to obey The time was when you did well employ your selfe against the Common adversaryes You did then runne well What letted you that you did not hold on in that course What hath provoked you to turn your pen from them and to whet it now the second time against those whom you call and should in truth acknowledg your brethren Doe you feare any violence from the Papists by holding on against them because perhaps of some former experience Indeede you may well feare such violence from them and be secure touchyng all danger from us because you haue learned from the Apothegme after mentioned of D. Elmer late Bishop of London and much more from all experiēce that you may justly feare your life and cuttyng of your throat in the company of one Papist but that no such thing is ever to be feared amongst ten thowsand of those whom it pleased him to call prescisians G. Powel In divers respects I feared to plead in so high a Court before such judges etc. Yet the equity and holines of the cause moved me etc. Answer Why should you feare being commaunded Would not your comnaunders beare you out It may be they will before men but who shall plead for you before God except you repent Take heed you commend not that to be equall and holy which agreeth not with the wayes of God G. Powel I presently resolued to stand in the gap and breach between our brethren and vs. Answer This resolution upon bare commaundement of a man it may be also contrary to the likyng of some to whom you are more bound was too present to be sound How haue you stod in the gap breach By treading it down to make it lower that wild beasts or at the least strang cattell may the more easily break in to devoure the Lords vine and to eate up the Lords people as it were bread G. Powel Albeit I knew my brethrens affections to be somewhat unkind and their pens foule and shamefull Answer Whereby knew you their unkindnes and foulnes towards you Indeed they haue seene and dayly doe see your unkindnes towards them yea towards the Lord in oppossing your selfe to the Lords cause and to them in seeking therof and that in this bitter manner yea for the foulnes of your pen you might justly feare the like measure from them againe to you But God forbid that for that we should sinne against God and cease praying for you G. Powel Seeing it lyeth not in our powers to make them modest peacable and that we are called to serue God and his Church which we are bound to doe in good and evill report Answer You should first haue proved us immodest and unpeaceable before you had used these wordes God giue those graces to you and us The serving of God and of his Church is not in rayling reprochfull speaches in sharpnes and bitternes in untrue and unjust collections directly contrary to the words of our brethren But what meāe you by good and evell report If as patients it is well if as agents it is not so But though by your booke I haue little cause yet I will take you in the better sence G. Powel I pray our heavenly Father to forgiue them any injury etc. Answer Before prayers you should lay aside all wrath of heart and bitternes of word Math. 5.22 1 Tim. 2.8 Pray also sor the forgivnes of the wrongs you doe to vs both in this booke and also in your latine treatise De adiaphoris I haue not with drawne my selfe from this worke Gab. Powel no not for the estimatiō reverence I haue of the graue judgments of your honors If you had duely reverenced their Honors Answ you would haue feared the offering vnto them such a present of raylings vnjust collections etc. As if they had been voyd of judgement not able to discerne of such accusations G. Powel I mayntaine here the glory of God and honor of our Prelats Answer As our Saviour said They shall excommunicate you yea the time shall come that whosoever killeth you shall thinke that he doth God service Ioh. 16.2 So this answerer thinketh that he glorifieth God by rayling on his cause servāts As for the Honor of our Prelats you should first haue been on a sure ground for the lawfulnes thereof before you had taken upon you like a champion the defence thereof 2. Even a good cause is rather overthrowne then vpheld by such meanes of scoffing and rayling as in this this booke you haue vsed Thus much for the answer to the Preface of M. Powels THE NEXT THING TO BE CONSIDERED is his marginall Notes vpon the preface of the author The first note with a I passe by G. Powel b This pretense unto the Christian reader is because they would not seeme to be petitioners unto the Parliament Answer What a strange collection is this Haue we expresly directed all the said argumēts vnto the Parliament house and yet would we not seeme to be petitioners unto thē Nay rather sith this answerer thus carpeth at these words the Christian reader M. Powell maketh the Parliament no christian assembly gatthering from the humble petition of the Author of those Argumentes to the Christian Reader etc. that he would not seeme to be Petitioner to the Parliment may not this be better gathered that the answerer distinguisheth the christian readers from the Parliament and the Parliament from them and so maketh the Parliament no christian assembly But why did the author use those wordes the christian reader The reason seemeth double 1 because he did so account of every one in the Parliament house 2 because he thought that those arguments might come to the handes of other Christian readers then onely of Parliament men G. Powel c The supplicants make the profession of the gospell and all religion to consist in refusing cap surplice crosse etc. Great cry litle wooll Answer This etc. After the word crosse is well added For otherwise although we hold those things to be matters of religion yet never any of us did affirme all religion to cōsist in thē without this etc. therfore this is an unchristian slaunder and to speake according to the answerers learning in Aristotles Eleuchs a fallacy ab eo quod est secundum quid ad id quod est simpliciter The adage in the end of this note is too homely for that Honorable Court to whom the answerer speaketh as being taken from swyne
conscience of keeping Gods commaundements and observing his word Answer Deut. 4.6 The which to reject is the greatest folly Ierem. 8.9 We haue made no breach or division at all But as Ioseph for telling his divine dreames was hated of his brethren and at the last sold a way to strangers by themselues and as the blinde man Iohn 9. for confessing Christ and stoutly standing in that confession was throwne out of the Iewish Synagogue by the Pharises so to use the words of this answerer we are violently and unjustly broken of and divided and thrust out of the ministery by other and yet charged that we haue made a folish breach and division G. Powel And therefore I cannot allow the opinion of such as giue out Answer Yet we doe all as hartily and faithfully loue and affect our Prince and King yea of whatsoever religion and are as ready and willing to defend his person honor against all adversaryes etc. that these our factious brethren are as dangerous enimyes vnto the state as the papists etc. Neither you nor any other haue ever yet had or ever I hope shall haue cause justly to speake write or thinke otherwise concernyng either our loue loyalty towards our Soveraigne or our duety to any of his governors yea though we should cunningly be solicited to some vndutifull practises as some not many yeares since were in the dayes of late Q. Elizab. of most Honorable memory who were so farr from enterteyning any such motions as that most dutifully they discovered the same to other in higher authority Though I say we should be cunningly solicited to any undutifull practises or to the approbation of any such practise yet I trust that never any of vs shall be found so to offend against his Majesties meanest and lowest officers G. Powel D. Elmer late B. of London gravely sayd If I were in the company but of one Papist I might justly feare the losse of my life but being amongst ten thousand Precisians well might I be afrayd of my Bishopricke but never of my throate the one would cut my coate and the other my throate The Precisians as it pleaseth B. Elmer to call them never desired the Bishopprickes of any of their adversaryes Answer but onely that they would giue glory to him that sitteth vpon the Throne and cast their miters at the feete of the Lambe acknowledging him worthy of all rule and Dominion contenting themselues with the places and Honors commended in the scriptures according to an other apothegmaticall exhortation of the sayd Bishop both made openly at Paules crosse and also printed before himselfe was so advanced in the world viz. that Bishops and other Prelats should come downe from their thowsands and content themselues with an hundred vntill which abasing of themselues and resignyng that which uniustly they hold reigning as Lords Kings over the Lords inheritance neither the Church of God in generall neither our Soveraigne in speciall shall haue so much service and good by their service neither themselues so much peace and comforte of conscience as otherwise would be G. Powel Though they be free from suspition of treason and rebellion yet it cannot be denyed but that presumptuously and willfully they contend with the Magistrat impugning his authority in things indifferēt Cannot that be denyed which never was neither ever can be proved against us Answer 1 We deny that it is the Magistrats meere pleasure that we should conforme otherwise then by mis information of our adversaryes against us as David upon the like mis information of Ziba against Mephibosheth gaue all to Ziba that had been Mephibosheths 2 Sam. 16.2 Yea they doe not only giue all the mis informations them-selues against us which they can jmagine or wherwith they are informed by other but also they labour what they can to keep the Magistrats from all right information in our behalfe by any other yea they indeavour their vtmost to keep both Parliament and all other from mediation for us 2 Though we yeeld not in all thinges required of us yet it is not presumptuously and wilfully but in all humility modesty we contend not by the sword nor any violence but onely by word yea pleading the word of God for our cause Our contentiō also is in a patient suffering with a duetifull cleering of our innocency against the false imputations wherewith we are burdened The things in question haue been said but never substantially proved to be indifferent in such sorte and to such vses as now they are urged Our adversaries haue so long strivē to maintayne the things which they call indifferent for such uses as to which they are not indifferent that they haue made religion it selfe an in different thing to many men In things truely indifferent it is already justified and shal be further justified if neede requyer that we attribute no lesse to the magistrat then our adversaryes doe Let them name in what sense and degree the Papists deny the Soveraignty of Princes in any thinge and I doubt not but that it may be proved that themselues holding their owne principles doe deny the same in the same sense and degree G. Powel All of them make a faction and schisme in the Church for carnall respects some because they know not otherwise how to be mainteyned some to gratifie their benefactors and Patrons and to please their frends some for discontentment and want of preferment some for giddines of innovation etc. What all M. Powell How doe you forget your selfe Answer You should haue left this generall judgment of all to the generall judge of all There is none of these of whom you speake but for the world and outward things they might liue better conformyng then not cōforming themselues What benefit haue any by gratifying their Patrons Will their Patrons giue them better mayntenance otherwise Nay some Patrons are their adversaryes and are gratified by them that put such Ministers out that so they may present againe etc. Some so displease their frends heerby that by their displeasure they loose more in one day then they get all their life by any Ecclesiasticall living Some also by displeasing their frends doe not only lose temporall benefits for them and theirs but doe also hinder themselues of as great Ecclesiasticall promotion as many or the most of the conformable sort doe ateyne unto Some by their troubles for this cause having had good patrimonyes haue consumed wasted them so that in their age when they need most comfort they liue in penury and want and at their death leaue not so much to their wiues many children as was left to themselues alone Some by want for this cause are forced to take their children of very great hope and forwardnes for learnyng frō the schoole and to make them apprentises to their owne great greife and in time to the detriment of the Church Agayne this imputation of