not out of Moses his Chair but ex Cathedrâ pestilentiae as the Psalmist phraseth it Psal 1.2 and therefore our Saviour often forewarns them not only of the life but doctrine of the Pharisees in the 16. of Mat. 6. take heed of the leaven of the Pharisees which in the 12. verse is expounded the doctrine and in this very Chap. verse 4. They bind heavy burthens and grievous to be born and lay them upon mens shoulders and in the 13. verse they were said to shut up the Kingdom of Heaven against men which must be by their doctrine In the 16th verse They are called blind guides which must also be by their ignorance in doctrine or teaching and if the blind lead the blind they will both fall into the ditch So likewise in the same verse he reproves their false doctrine about Oaths wherefore this whatsoever must be understood of whatsoever according to that they pretend So out of Moses his Chair what they from his Authority shall appoint to be observed must be observed but when they produce doctrine contrary to that they must be disobeyed their wicked lives shall not prejudice their godly doctrine nor shall Moses his Chair countenance their wicked doctrine or commands for if so S. Peter and S. Paul before spoken of were to blame who disobeyed their commands and the inhumane Murther of our Saviour might be justified which was acted by their direction Well I need speak no more to this it is apparent that this neither can prove Aristocraty nor deliver an infallible unerring rule for them to be regulated by And as he was to blame to found Aristocraty upon any of these places of Scripture so surely upon this hyperbolical expression That the power of every one of these Supremes is as great as possibly men can be imagined to make it For then all Supremes have a like power which certainly is not apparent and at all times for if such a greatness belong to a Soveraign as a Soveraign then in no Soveraign or at any time can it be missing Then the Subject cannot have right to rescue himself from bonds or such hardship which may render his life odious to him as he often perswades for such absolute power may be imagined to be made SECT XIII Mr. Hobbs his Hyperbolical Power scarce any where to be found and yet no such state of War as he imagines hath followed de facto His subsequent question answered by another Mr. Hobbs his Doctrine the foundation of Sedition Disputes concerning Governments dangerous but not to be prevented HE proceeds And though of so unlimited a power men may fancy many evil consequences yet the consequences of the want of it which is perpetual war of every man against his Neighbour are much worse Thus far he What a strange wild asseveration is this Mr. Hobbs I am perswaded hath lived in divers Commonwealths yet did he never find in any this absolute Hyperbolical Power of a Soveraign nor did he see any where that every man was at war with his Neighbour That which follows in that Paragraph I let pass because confuted by what hath been writ heretofore there being no new matter in it and pass to the next which he thus begins The greatest objection is that of the practise when men ask where and when such power has by Subjects been acknowledged Truly a wise question and shrewdly proposed and to which he makes an unsatisfactory answer which is But one may ask them again when and where hath there been a Kingdom long free from Sedition and Civil Wars That word long is a word of so large a capacity a man can hardly find any time which he cannot say is short But let that pass he may consider that Civil War and Tumults arise from divers occasions sometimes from diverse Titles sometimes from private injuries sometimes when people are taught that they may vindicate themselves from oppression by their own private force and strength sometimes when they shall be taught that they are the Fountain of all Power and therefore they may take away as well as give which two last are the Fundamental Props of his whole Leviathan and naturally produce Rebellion towards Superiours He goes on And in those Nations whose Commonwealths have been long-lived and not been destroyed but by Forreign War the Subjects never did dispute of Soveraign Power He should have done a great work if he had instanced in those Nations and had proved they never disputed that point In answer to this The less dispute there is about it 't is by so much the safer But who can hold men that have reason from disputing the reason of these great affairs which so nearly concern them SECT XIV Mr. Hobbs his bold censure of those who have written before him His Principles destructive to Humane Society BVt saith he howsoever an argument from the practise of men that have not sifted to the bottom and with exact reason weighed the Causes and Nature of Commonwealths and suffer daily those miseries that proceed from the ignorance thereof are invalid A bold assertion and censorious of all the world in a Subject of which hundreds of learned men have discoursed much more safely and rationally then himself and declared those things which he calls the Causes and Nature of Commonwealths much more excellently then he as may appear to any man who will peruse them Which Writers although they may have infirmities and errours yet I never read one man who maintained in Politiques Principles so destructive to Humane Society as himself But he gives an instance to confirm his answer to that argument For saith he though in all places in the world men should lay the foundation of their houses on the sand it could not thence be inferred that so it ought to be He saith truth but his instance is like his conclusion which he would illustrate by it and when he can shew me that all men have built their houses upon the Sand I will yield that all Nations in the world have founded themselves upon weak supports but until then he shall excuse me from thinking one or the other SECT XV. The Rules in Politiques not founded upon Demonstrations The judgments and humours of men equally various The Rule of Government must follow the present occurrences HE again The skill of making and maintaining Common-wealths consisteth in certain Rules as doth Arithmetick and Geometry not as Tennis play upon practise only which Rules neither poor men have the leisure nor men that have had the leisure have hitherto had the curiâ—siâ—y or the method to find out The first clause of this affirmation must be examined first where he saith the skill of making and ruling Commonwealths consists in certain Rules as doth Arithmetick and Geometry Rules without doubt all prudential actions are governed by but to say like Arithmetick and Geometry is more then can be justified for their Rules are most certain the demonstrations out of them most
he Those men who are so remisly governed that they dare take up Arms to defend or introduce an Opinion are still in War and their condition not Peace but a cessation of Arms for fear of one another and they live as it were in the Precincts of Battel continually This was wittily expressed by him but he did not remember that the Covenant in the institution put them in a state of peace when now he placeth peace only in the mannagement of that Government which if it be there 's another reason from hence to be added to what went before that the Supreme ought to Covenant with his Subjects concerning his Government which is obstinately denied by him SECT IX Doctrines among Christians not to be introduced by force Cessation of Arms not the height of Peace Remisness in matter of Opinion not the only cause of Mutiny or Rebellion COnsider those that are so remisly governed as they dare take up Arms to defend or introduce an Opinion This should not concern Christians whose Opinions and Doctrines must not be introduced by Arms of Steel and force but of reason and sufferings and as our Great Master our blessed Saviour planted it with his death so must we cherish and water it with our own not others blood It is not to be sowed or reaped by Swords but sufferings and the reason of those sufferings But be it of what opinion it will this Argument doth not become him because he makes war to be the natural state of all mankind which if it be it will return unless you take the very nature away in which it is rooted otherwise it only suppresses the outward acts of violence or war but not extinguisheth the being of it Again he makes his peace obtained by the Covenant in the Soveraigns Institution to be nothing else but a cessation of Arms for fear men should not else enjoy their conveniencies or well being Now then if this be the height of any peace they who are governed thus remisly as he speaks are in as good a state of peace as any others are I grant that remisness of Government is an occasion that loose people are incited to foster discontents and malicious people encouraged to take up Arms. But this may be imputed to all remisness as well as that of Opinions and ought not to be bounded by it SECT X. Mr. Hobbs his fallacies in arguing discovered To be Judge and to constitute Judges are distinct the latter more advantagious to the Commonwealth in point of Doctrines HE thinking that this is clear deduceth further thus It belongs therefore to him that hath the Soveraign Power to be Judge or constitute Judges of Opinions and Doctrines as a thing necessary to peace thereby to prevent discord and civil wars Observe here Reader is a fallacy that runs throughout his whole Book which I have often marked before and now must again which is that he makes his conclusion deduced out of his discourse another from that which he proposed His Conclusion proposed is this Sixthly it is annexed to the Soveraignty to be Judge of what Opinions are averse and what conduce to peace Observe it is in his own person now it is to be Judge or constitute Judges There is a great difference betwixt the performance of this act in his own person and by Officers It is not probable that a man or men taken up with so many and great thoughts of politick affairs can have leisure to get abilities for such a purpose or if he had can he attend them Therefore as I said before so I say again he ought to imploy in that great business men fitted by their proper Studies and endeavours to such a design We will go on CHAP. XI SECT I. The impossibility of the former imagined Institution of a Leviathan further discovered from the power given him by Mr. Hobbs in the propriety of Estates attained before the Institution SEventhly saith he To the Soveraignty is annexed the whole power of prescribing the Rules whereby every man knows what good he may enjoy and what actions he may do without being molested by his fellow Subjects and this is it men call Propriety To understand this we must return back and consider that this is spoke of a Commonwealth constituted after his impossible imagination by a multitude of people of which there was never any president nor is ever likely to be The impossibility of which will yet appear more manifest by the examination of this Paragraph To that purpose let us conceive a multitude of people met together upon such a design as he proposeth of chusing a Leviathan all these people either had estates or had none but only their beings in the world or else some had estates some had none To think that in such a multitude no man should have any thing of his own were most unreasonable And again to imagine that there were no necessitous men amongst such a number of men were ridiculous it must needs therefore be that some had estates and some none Let us then proceed according to his own Rule that the prime and principal Law of Nature is for every man to look to himself and his own accommodations and for that reason it is and the sole reason by him alledged why men incorporate into a Body Politick This being supposed as it is by him can any man think that such men who had estates would make themselves in an equal condition with those who had none and leave them at the disposal of a Leviathan when he is constituted whereby they should be levelled with them who had no estate or rather in the constitution of their Commonwealth provide to have them secured by some Covenant or other that they might not be worse afterwards then they were when they covenanted for it yea loose that which perhaps with great pains and industry they had acquired which if they do in their constituting a Commonwealth the Soveraign hath not right to dispose and give cross Rules to that Covenant afterwards he having formerly assented to that Covenant For if we consider his Politicks we shall find the only end why men imbody themselves into a Commonwealth to be the securing themselves to live comfortably enjoying their own without molestation or to that purpose Think then how it is possible for a man with such thoughts about him in that way to throw himself and all he hath clearly to anothers disposal without any condition or Covenant For although all things under the Sun are subject to change and the strongest Entails find means to be frustrated yet providence and careful men in such a constitution of so high a Nature would foresee that possibility and have some forecast how and by what ways that should be done which indeed must needs make the multitude of the people unfit men for such a work who have not wisdome to foresee or provide for such accidents SECT II. Mr. Hobbs his supposition of men met together
not be so to another The force of which answer lies in this That there may be many counterfeit Miracles which may appear true to one and may be found false by another and therefore because men may be deceived they have no assurance from them To this I can say that Mr. Hobbs is not so good a Logician here as the Devil for the Devil disputed from the real force of the Argument but Mr. Hobbs draws his Answer from the apprehension of the Hearer or Spectator when it thunders man a man is busie hears it not Doth it not therefore thunder because he doth not hear it The Sun ariseth and shineth out in the morning when I am in bed and see it not Doth it therefore not shine because I discern it not When a man who hath weak Eys or troubled with the Jaundice comes into a Room many colours are there which he perceives not or if he do they appear yellow to his Eyes Are they therefore yellow But this and no other is his consequence against Miracles because some apprehend them not therefore they are not or do not send out that proof which naturally flows from them Many fallacious Arguments are used He hath used many and because they are fallacies Are therefore perfect Demonstrations not good His Answer therefore is not Logical in saying that these things appear marvellous to one which do not to another Let a man consider the possibility or rather impossibility which Nature hath to do such a work and if he be not learned enough to discuss with a Cause let him consult with Learned men who are able to judge of it and he shall by that find whether God hath in an extraordinary manner any hand in it or no but the Answer which he makes may be returned to all Arguments whatsoever one understands another doth not therefore they are not good nor give assurance And â—o I have finished the first Argument which he framed against himself and answered weakly CHAP. XXII SECT X. Mr. Hobbs his second Argument examined The truth of Divine revelation to the Apostles asserted from the gift of Tongues AND I pass to his second Argument and Answer which is at the bottom of that page and the Argument is drawn to prove that these were Divine revelations from the Sanctity of the Persons who delivered it He answers that that may be feigned I reply It is improbable which were enough but I think I may go further and say it is impossible for the first clause that it is improbable we may discern Reason for it First in the Persons the Apostles who delivered these Revelations and affirmed they were such it is not probable they should be counterfeited all counterfeiting is for some end some worldly end for a man cannot think to get Heaven by counterfeiting and lying but the Apostles could have no worldly end in what they did the asserting of these Revelations being the ready way to miseries and unhappiness which was foretold by their great Master our most blessed Saviour We have seen in this distracted world in which we have lived now and then a man proud with an imagined Enthusiasme persevere in an abominable lye even to death but for so many to do it and suffer for the relation of the same story it cannot be imagined And then consider that they were men blessed by God in having these Revelations and the relating them I say relating them for because the Doctrine was to be divulged to all Nations by them God assisted them with the gift of Tongues by which they were able suddenly to relate in their own Language to every Nation the wonderful things which concerned their salvation And from hence I will draw the impossibility of their feigning their sanctity in the delivery of these Revelations for as the Revelation was from God so the very delivery of them by the power of Tongues was from God who cannot countenance and make good a lye But yet certainly although their might be a possibility of being other I grant that for Arguments sake which I allow not yet when there is no probability of the contrary we have great assurance of that truth and his answer is most wicked as well as weak drawn from a possibility of feigning and counterfeiting in the Apostles CHAP. XXII SECT XI Mr. Hobbs his third Argument from the wisdom of the Apostles confirmed The miraculous consent of men to the revelations published by them An Argument from the propagation of Christianity against the opposition of the whole world A serious application and vow for Mr. Hobbs his conversion A Third Argument which he endeavours to put off is drawn from the extraordinary wisdome or extraordinary felicity of his actions all which saith he are marks of Gods extraordinary favour His answer to this is at the bottom of that page thus The visible felicities of this world are most often the work of God by natural and ordinary causes And therefore no man can infallibly know by natural reason that another has had a supernatural revelation of Gods will but only a belief everyone as the signs thereof shall appear greater or lesser a firmer or weaker belief Thus far he I now answer to the first which concerns their wisdome I do not remember that I have read the wisdome of these men to be produced for proof of their revelations yet because he has put it down and given one answer to it I will urge something for it that it was and is a great convincing argument that such poor ignorant illiterate fishermen should attain or rather be endued from above with such wisdome as to be able to confute the greatest and best studied Philosophers and reduce them to consent to their revelations this must need prove that these men were assisted by some knowledg above Nature But let that pass since he makes no answer but for the other the success of Christianity that is a most rational argument and his answer confutes himself for whereas he saith the visible felicities of this World are most often the work of God by natural ordinate causes I retort it to him that the felicities of this world hapning to these men were nothing but that general propagation of the Gospel which was wrought against the force and power of all natural causes all the Emperours Kings and Princes of this World fighting against and suppressing it with all the force and tyranny which they were able to use so that their strength grew by oppression Sanguis Martyrum was Semen Ecclesiae And M. Hobbs cannot think that that was a natural seed And so I will conclude this discourse for this time hoping that God will so assist him that he may see his own error and with his own hand blot out all these unworthy doubts which he hath cast upon Christianity CHAP. XXII SECT XII Mr. Hobbs his second Question propounded and discussed his assumption not clear the Argument changed and the Reader eluded
external impediments but absolute liberty it is not because both it is impeded from overflowing the channel by the banks and likewise because it is restrained by its nature so that it is not absolutely liberty There is libertas à coactione a liberty from constraint of outward causes but there is no liberty à necessitate from the necessity of its nature without which there is no proper liberty any otherwise then a prisoner hath to live in Gaol But liberty is ad opposita to things of divers nature where the Internal Principle hath power to do this or that or at the least to do or not to do as he speaks at the end of the last Paragraph The doer had liberty to omit Now the water hath freedom to do it is not hindred from running in the channel but not so much liberty as School boys take one towards another when the weaker Boy should chuse the best the stronger would give him the worst and bid him chuse that or none for the water hath not liberty to run or not to run but only liberty to run SECT VIII Mr. Hobbs his former instance to voluntary actions His liberty to have or not to have written and dispersed these impious Doctrines HE proceeds So likewise in the actions which men voluntarily do It is not so in the actions which men voluntarily do there is no necessity for them to do their voluntary actions they can chuse whether they will do them or not that man who doth vertuously can chuse and do vitiously And so contrarily he could have chosen whether he would have writ these wicked Doctrines which he hath taught If not let him confess it and I will prove him not to be a Man but a Beast and fit to be used as a Beast yea worse then a Beast to be like a stone which naturally descends or water which necessarily runs down its Channel and so ought to be used like it for indeed there is no one thing more peculiar to man then this liberty SECT IX Mr. Hobbs his Reason of the former Assertion invalid Of the first and second causes Men actively other creatures passively capable of commands Fools and Mad-men incapable of commands BUt he gives a reason for what he speaks And yet because every act of mans will and every desire and inclination proceedeth from some causes and that from another cause in a continual chain whose first link is in the hand of God the first of all causes proceed from necessity The force of this Argument is invisible for though this will doth proceed from a cause as he expresseth it yet if that immediate cause from which it proceeds be not necessary yea if any one Link in the Chain of Causes be free and not necessary the effect is not necessary for the arbitrariness of any one will make the effect such But this liberty of the Agent he speaks of looks only upon the immediate cause which in humane actions is free and may not be done yea very often the Agent may chuse the contrary That the first cause works with all second causes is as certain as any thing in the Mathematicks for there cannot be a second or a third or any number but it proceeds from a first And yet because the first hath an influence upon the rest it follows not that they are Cyphers but each out of that foundation hath its several operations So in this the first cause is Causa generalis and works with second causes which are derived from it But they have their several ways and powers of working Natural according to their natural inclination Animal according to the peculiar disposition of those Souls which inhabit them only man hath a free nature amongst bodily things in that resembling the Great Cause of Causes he is the Principle of those actions which he doth as a man voluntarily and therefore is capable of Commands actively to do and the other Creatures passively to be done or used and Man is used as a Master or Owner under God of them a Steward who must give an account of such of them as come within the sphere of his Dominion Let any man tell me how a man can be capable of commands if he were like them necessitated No man commands Fools Mad-men or Infants we might account them Fools or Mad who should do it but if he would have them act any thing he must work upon their predominant passion as we would do with Beasts because there is in them a deficiency of this high Power to be Master of their own actions It cannot be then that all those Precepts Councels Commands of God should be given to him who hath no power to obey And from thence we must needs conclude that they have a liberty to do or not to do But let us follow him SECT X. Mr. Hobbs his Supposition impossible without a Revelation The force of the word See His Hypothesis granted His Inference would not follow Causes not otherwise to seem then as they are in their own Nature SO that saith he to him who could see the connexion of those Causes the necessity of all mens voluntary actions would appear manifest This conclusion is founded upon an impossible supposal there is no possibility that a man in this world should see that Chain of Causes in Heaven hereafter he may but here he cannot without a mighty strange Revelation But suppose he could This word See denotes a clear apprehension What would follow then but that he should see such causes necessary which are necessary and such free which are free he would see them as they are not see them in a representation false and so not agreeing to their condition SECT XI Of Gods concurrence with humane actions No man a sinner if necessitated to sin Divine disposure necessitates not to Evil. God not the Author of those actions which are contrary to his commands He is truly the Author of those actions he adviseth Gods concurrence further illustrated from the influx of the Sun Liberal Agents not necessitated by the ordinary concurrence of God HE proceeds And therefore God that seeth and disposeth all things seeth also that the liberty of man in doing what he will is accompanied with the necessity of doing that which God will and no more nor less Certainly although I think very many men are too bold to discourse of both Gods Knowledge and Will as they do which are things too high for the weak sight of man to look clearly into yet men may confidently say as his Knowledge cannot be deceived to judge falsly so his Will cannot be deceived in willing that which is not good and therefore because men are free Agents in what they do and must give an account of their actions to him and be judged according to them by him it is not possible to conceive that he should know them other then free which liberty was his own gift And for his will since it hath pleased
because thou only art without sin he is a just punisher who hâ—th nothing in himself to be punished he is a just reprehender who hath nothing in himself to be reprehended Here you may see how holy and learned men living near together about one time with St. Ambrose men famous in their generations and to whom the Church of Christ owes exceeding much for the propagation of the Gospel gave their sense of this text of scripture as well as he and St. Augustin was one who honoured St. Ambrose living and dead yet you see varies from him in his judgment in this point Give me leave to shew my sense of these words and then conclude And first I will allow Mr. Hobbs his reading to thee which is not according to our translation which is against thee and certainly by men learned in the Hebrew both amongst the ancient and modern writers with a great content it is acknowledged to be true yet it profits his cause nothing to read it as he doth insomuch that Bellarmine in his Comment upon this Psalm saith To thee only have I sinned he doth not say against thee only he had offended against Vriah against Bathsheba he had scandalized the people but to thee only as Judge and none else can judge and condemn me as he illustrates it So that although Mr. Hobbs varies from his own rule of scripture yet he gets nothing to his cause by it But to proceed in expounding I ask leave and beg pardon of such eminent men from whom I may seem to differ for my part I do not think that David here acts the part of a King or so much as thinks of his great Regality if he did it was to aggravate not to extenuate his sin but of a penitent and in his penitence is a pattern to other men as well as Kings how they should demean themselves even Kings in those duties are reconciling themselves to their King in respect of whom they are poor and mean people and if they should consider themselves Kings they should by this increase their humility considering that he who owes so much to God should be so ungrateful and unmindful of him The Prophet therefore now considering his offence to God cryes out To thee only have I sinned before Nathan the Prophet had visited him and told him of his faults he thought he had sinned only to man and therefore to hide his first sin with Bathsheba he added another of murther by which he thought his shame of the other might be hid from men which was possible but now clean contrary when he is acquainted with the wrath of God for his sin now he cares not for his sin to men so he may be right with God and to that end penned this Psalm to be sung in Churches and to God utters those lamentable complaints that he is besmeared with blood that his bones are broken that he hath need of Gods great and many mercies that his heart is broke yea contrite that he is all unclean and must be washed and washed again that he begs God to purge and make him clean although with hysop and sharp medicines Here is the perfect character of a true penitent many a man is sorry for his sin because it breeds him shame and wordly evil but this doth him no good but King David is grieved for sin because sin because against Gods law which he hath transgressed he cares not what this world thinks of him so God be appeased and reconciled to him and therefore that this may be done he only begs his pardon and thinks only of him To thee only c. do thou acquit me I care for nothing else And surely this is the most certain test of a true repentance when a man grieves that he hath offended God and values nothing but that offence not that Bathsheba was a woman which he injured but that he took the members of God and made them the members of an harlot not that Vriah was a man and that a gallant person but that he was the Image of God which he destroyed those and the like meditations are the issues of true and hearty repentance but yet consider as I have said before these things were sins to God and God is therefore offended with them because they are breaches of his laws concerning man with man in particular you may find this most emphatically expressed by Nathan in the pronouncing Gods sentence against David where the punishment is proportioned to the offence 2 Sam. 12.10 Now therefore because thou hast killed Vriah the Hittite with the sword of the Ammonites as it was expressed in the 9. verse therefore the sword shall never depart from thy house then for his sin with Bathsheba verse 11. and 12. I will take thy wives before thine eyes and give them to thy neighbour and he shall lye with them in the sight of the sun for thou didst it secretly but I will do this thing before all Israel and before the sun Then because by this deed he had given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme his child by her was adjudged to death as it is in the 14. verse So that it is evident by his punishments that he sinned against men and it is a most vain thing to collect from hence that a King can do no injustice to his subjects for certainly it is injustice in a King to butcher barbarously any man which without danger he may save how much more his own subjects which he is bound to preserve and his vertuous subjects whom he ought to reward I have been long in this Mr. Hobbs hath another instance for the lawfulness of supremes to do any thing without injustice CHAP. XX. SECT V. Mr. Hobbs his instance of the Common-wealth of Athens examined IN the same manner the people of Athens when they banished the most potent of their Common-wealth for ten years thought they committed no injustice The Athenians thought so but doth Mr. Hobbs think so For although he brings this for an argument to prove the arbitrary power which Supremes have over their Subjects lives yet the scorn he puts upon it within few lines which I shall speedily mention shews his contempt of it and no doubt but the Athenians themselves alâ—hough in the doing of it were delighted with such acts of power yet when it was done and the lack of such a worthy person to assist at the helme of the State did make them sensible of the unhappiness of that act they would repent of it and detest it and find it is most unjust and imprudent unjust because distributive justice ought with all caresses and politick blessings to reward vertuous men but to banish them is a heavy punishment due to evil doers and it is imprudent to banish such for by that means the Common-wealth loseth his assistance and perhaps finds that man an unhappy enemy who would have been a stedfast friend He goes on And yet they never
operation which is the art of Phancying any thing but if you take it for that eminent effect which is wrought by that operation and left in the memory it must be something and has an abode and being there it must needs be something therefore so that if we consider these colours only in the Phansie they are something if we consider them as he hath taught us in that being they have without our heads they are real things but to write to that which most especially reflects upon me my self that colour is nothing I could wish the reader so much leasure as to peruse what I have writ in my former treatise and he will find that Mr. Hobs hath neither answered those arguments I there produced nor confuted any answer I gave to his arguments I will add something more and consider good Reader if it be not rational that which not only works real effects which I have formerly shewed invincibly that Colours do but likewise in its self suffers change must needs be something for nothing cannot be changed it is a pure non-entity and will be so alwayes and when it is changed upon any supposition of such a thing it must be changed to something Now colours we see changed from white to redder or greener and therefore must needs be something If he shall say it is but a diverse imagination we shall cleare that by the examination of his following discourse which is this Quam apparitionem which apparition without some cause and foundation we sufficiently understand is impssible viz. white cannot be without some substance to subsist to the apparition which is its cause and as Logicians speak its subject here is a great deal of truth in this discourse but I can find nothing that Proves his conclusion which is that colour is nothing nay I will retort his discourse to him and prove his conclusion false by it which thus I do That which subsists to White must subsist to something or else that which requires or needs something to subsist to it must be something for nothing is nothing and needs nothing to subsist to it nor can any thing be said to subsist to nothing for any entity added to nothing makes it something which is most abhorring to nothing Again whatsoever hath a cause is somthing but these Apparitions have a cause according to him here and elsewhere for as he makes refracted light in other places to be the cause so here he makes the subject to be the cause of them the major is evident for nothing can cause nothing for although God by his almighty hand can annihilate any thing what he pleaseth yet that annihilation is not so properly a production of nothing as a destruction of a Being for there is no existence of that nothing either to or in another but a takeing away of that Being which did formerly exist so that there can be no Existence of nothing and therefore to say that nothing is supported or subsisted by a Substance seems to be a contradiction That which follows in this Paragraph is nothing to his purpose I let it pass therefore and come to Page 340. and skip divers things which indeed might deserve a sharp Censure and prosecute only such things which oppose what I have heretofore judged mistakes in him and to that purpose in the formerly 340. Page you may perceive that the Objector A puts the Question CHAP. V. His Definition of Substance by Ens Examined QVid ergo est Substantia what is substance and he is answered by B Idem quod Ens the same with a thing that is whatsoever is truly existing distinct from phantasme and name this definition or description of substance I must blame it being only a fuller and clearer expression of that of which I immediately before discoursed that all these things which we commonly call accidents are nothing but imaginations or meer names put to nothing existing and I will oppose to this that which he delivered in the preceeding page where he saith that the Latines call the subject of these accidents eus subjectum suppositum substantiam basom fundamentum Let me urge hence whatsoever is a foundation is a foundation of somthing therefore these must be somthing to which substance is the foundation consider a little good Reader that I may make all things clear to the most easy capacity can the Reader think that that heat which scorched his or my hand is nothing I speak not of those pointed Attomes of which some write that they cause heat but this heat which you and I feel so sensibly can any think it is nothing or that cold which benums my hand now whilst I am writing is that nothing why should we then be troubled with nothing or that sharpness which enabled the knife or bullet to peirce my flesh is that nothing or that they are meer names which certainly as such hurt no man or that they are meer phantasmes can any man think that the meer phantasme of one man can warm cool or hurt another I remember I think I have read in Parnelsus That if one mans inward man be too hard for anothers he may with an engine as he describes draw another to him many miles distance I am not peremptory in the Author having not my books about me but I have certainely read it but did never hear or read that by his fancy a man could cool or warm another or support such a burthen as we see Carpenters or Builders do by a Mathematical disposing of those materials which they use Nay give me Leave to tell the Author of this Paradon that no man can think that those habits which dispose any man to a ready acting vertuously or vitiously are nothing or but fancies or names Nay I will tread one step further if his doctrine were true those promised joyes of Heaven which we hope for and those dreaded torments of Hell which wicked men are threatned with by God should be nothing but empty names or fancies which appeares a most horrid thought to a Christian man for these are not bodies and therefore by him at the best but fancies I will here make this observation that when men vent extravagant opinions and such as are not usual in Philosophy intending perhaps they should not proceed beyond their own condition which is only Philosophy and give plausible reasons to perswade those opinions they believe not nor can foresee what ill consequencies they may have in Divinity but they are like new Laws which may seem reasonable at first but nothing but time and experience can assure the benefit of them SECT II. Many Errors in his citing Scripture for his Opinion ANd now Reader give me leave to look a little back upon what I skipt before which is at the top of Page 340. his Answer to that question how is Hypostasis taken in the new Testament His Answer is after the same manner as it is by other Writers that manner is it