as he pleaseth to call them on the other and whether he or they mistake the question and point in controuersie wherein there is indeed great folly and want of vvisedome let vs heare vvhat it is which these Ministers haue written wherevpon this imputation is grounded The Separatists schisme 181.182.183 c. The first thing say they which they of the Separation obiect against the whole body of our Church and of our parish assemblies is this That it was not gathered by such meanes as God in his word hath ordained and sanctified for the gathering of his church And that thus you obiect they proue by two testimonies of your owne and then immediately returne therevnto the seuerall answeres here following First say they wee may esteeme them a true Church and so our owne of whose present profession and faith we are well assured though wee cannot see by what meanes they were first gathered Else may we still doubt whether Melchisedech and the families of Iob and Cornelius were true Churches or members of the Church because wee cannot finde how they were first gathered and conuerted Secondly wee might be rightly gathered to the society and fellowship of the vis Church by other meanes then by the preaching of the Gospell Thirdly our Church was gathered by the preaching of the Word which is the meanes God hath appointed for the gathering of a Church as your selues doe teach And here they bring in the preaching of M. Wicklâ—ffe Fourthly This say they being proued that there was a true Church in this land before her Maiesties raigne the question must not be whether the meanes shee vsed were the right meanes for the first calling and conuerting of a people to the faith but whether shee tooke not a lawfull course for the recalling and revniting of her subiects vnto those true professors whose fellowship they had forsaken Fiftly and lastly though the solemne couenant to renounce idolatrie and to cleaue to the truth be not absolutely necessarie yet was that also required and performed in the beginning of Queene Elizabeths Raigne Tell mee now M. Ainsworth doe you not hold and maintaine that our Church was not rightly gathered to vvit by the preaching of the vvord and therevpon doe coâ—demne vs for a falsâ— Church Yes haue not these Ministers therevnto returned a most direct answere The indifferent Reader cannot but by the aforesaid heads and summe of their answere see and acknowledge it With sinne and shame inough then doe you affirme That these Ministers haue in their fiue seuerall answeres as your selfe points them out missed the question and passed by the maine controuersie No lesse vnconscionably and vnhonestly deale you in bearing your simple Reader in hand that these said Ministers indeuour to proue by the examples of Melchisedech Iob c. and the rest summed vp before both these points following or at least one of them either that open prophane and wicked persons may be receiued and kept in the bosome of the Church or that there be not multitudes of open prophane and wicked members of the Church of England whereas they intend no such thing neither haue they a word tending this way nay abhor with their brethren to affirme either Yâ—u doe therefore slander vs when and as oft as you charge vs to say That the open prophane may lawfully be receiued and kept in the Church and to deny that there be any such in ours And in disprouing both these the one by the tâ—stimonies of our owne men the other by the sacred Scriptures what doe you else but pull down that building which your selues with your own hands not we haue erected and built vp Thus doing you haue bestowed a great deale of labour to as small purpose as he that casteth stones into the ayre pursuing your owne shadow instead of our bodies All that we maintaine here and by the grace of God will against men and Angels is That the being of open wicked men in it doth not destroy a church Against this you should haue argued or held your peace but we heare not a word to any such puâ—pâ—sâ— Iâ—stead thereof you proue the aforesaid positions which we in commâ—n hold with you Whether you now or the Ministers haue missed the question and passed by the maine controuersie as in other cases so here a blinde man may see It had beâ—n vvell you had fiâ—st plucked out the beame that is in your owne eye then should you haue seene more cleerely to pull out the mote out of your brothers eye if any be there More against this commixture of good and bad in our Church who list and hath the Counterpoyson may reade pag. 9. and 27. 28. and 60. and 70. 76. 101. 212. 213. And here by way M. Ainsworth I must needs tell you this booke of yours is falsely called Counterpoyson for it is not a preseruatiue against the poyson of false doctrine as the title pretendeth but indeede full of such poison the receiuing and beleeuing vvhereof is as daÌ„gerous to the soule of man as poison receiued is to the body Now that wee haue heard M. Iohnson and M. Ainsworth we will likewise heare what M. Robinson saith concerning this separating from the world and the causes of their separation Separation quoth he from the world and so from the men of the world Answere to a Censorious Epistle pag. 4. and so from the Prince of the world that raigneth in them and so from whatsoeuer is contrary to God is the first step to our communion with God and Angels and goodmen as the first step to a ladder is to leaue the earth Before we haue beene taught if we be so foolish as to learne of them that a visible Church is a company of people called and seperated from the world this man now instructeth vs in the meaning of this last clause That by seperated from the world they meane from the men of the world that is earthly minded men whose hearts and affections are set of this world and the things thereof So that a true visible church is not a mixt company whereof some doeth chiefely desire earth and earthly things others heauen some this world and others the world to come but all of this societie are rapt and rauished with a desire longing after the world to come and the ioyes there despising this world with the glory and pompe thereof who though they be in this world yet are not of it Thus you shut out of the visible Church all hypocrites and all wicked men as well those which be separately as openly wicked for as much as all hypocrites and men of this world to whom you deny a being in the Church because a visible Church is a company seperated from such And whereas in the visible Church there be some children of the diuell if not in appearance yet in deed and trueth and are not all the children of God adopted in Iesus Christ you tell vs that in the visible Church
the longer and more dangerous the way is we haue to trauell by so much the more desirous and inquisitiue are we after company because it maketh greatly for our safety and comfort and helpeth much against the tediousnes and wearisomenesse of the way Thou therefore my deare brother who as a pilgrime and stranger on earth art wandring in the wildernesse of this world towards that heauenly Canaan a way long and dangerous wherein doe lye in waite many theeues and robbers full also of crosse-wayes and by-paths and none almost to direct thee except thou wilt aske of the beasts of the wildernesse inquire and seeke out some of these that are trauelling as well as thou to Canaan to bee thy associates And this shall bee sweete and comfortable both to thee and them Thus did Dauid a pilgrime as all our Fathers were Psal 119.63 I am a companion saith he of all them that feare thee and keepe thy precepts And that which is more All his delight next to that he had in God Psal 16.3 Prou. 12.26 was in the Saints that were in the earth who are more excellent then their neighbours and consequently their societie more to be desired It goeth well with that woman who maketh choice of such an husband whose company shee cannot auoid and with that man which hath such a wife and with him that hath such neighbours or out of them can and doth cull out such to be his companions and acquaintance It is good being in the company of these for with the godly thou shalt learne to bee godly Prou. 13.20 or being godly to encrease in godlinesse But it is much better yea a blessed thing to be one of this society For is it not I pray thee an happy thing to be beloued of God and in speciall fauour with him Dauid so accounted it and therefore prayeth thus to God Psal 4.6 Many say who will shew vs any good but Lord lift thou vp the light of thy countenance vpon vs. And professeth that herein he had more ioy of heart then worldly minded men haue when their wheate and wine doth abound Now all of the Church are dearely beloued of God They are as wee heare the Congregation of the first borne Rom. 1.7 No first borne child is so tenderly beloued of his parents no not of his mother as these be of God For it may so fall out that a woman may forget her childe and not haue compassion on the sonne of her wombe Isa 49.75 Psal 27.10 Ephes 15.25 Iohn 10.11.15 Iohn 15.13 but this cannot fall into God Though father and mother forsake one of these the Lord will take him vp This Church and company of men Christ so loued that hee gaue himselfe for it that is layd downe his life for it And greater loue then this to dye for his friends can no man haue O loue vnspeakable As by his deeds so by his words Iesus doth witnes his loue to this Church Cant. 2.14.15 4.2 7 8. c. 5.1.2 Mat. 12.49.50 in calling it his Welbeloued his Doue his Spouse his Loue and in accounting euery one of this societie his Brother and Sister and Mother If then thou be one of this fellowship O man thou art in grace and speciall fauour not with thy King and Soueraigne on earth but with thy God and thy Lord who is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and with him whose loue is the fountaine of all mans happinesse Of this loue I say euery one of this Church and company may be assured Happy therefore are all they and only they who be of this society Their happines and dignity their excellent estate full of maiesty and glory may yet further appeare by sundry of those titles which are giuen vnto them in holy Scripture They of this society are called a spirituall house the Tabernacle of God the Temple of God and are said to be the habitation of God by the Spirit because the Spirit of God dwelleth in them What a grace and honor is this that the King of glory should cohabite with vs And what a rebell is he Reu. 3.20 who though this King stand at his doore and knock will not open that he may enter in Happy and thrice happy is he who hath the presence and fellowship of God For who shall harme him with whom the Almighty is alwayes present to defend Hee needs not bee afraid of the feare of the night Psal 91.1 nor of the arrow that flieth by day nor of the pestilence that walketh in the darknes nor of the plague that destroyeth at noone-day that dwelleth thus in the secret of the most high and abideth in the shadow of the Almighty Though a thousand fall at thy side and ten thousand at thy right hand yet shall not the euill come neere thee In all perils thou mayest be secure lye downe in peace and take thy rest when others feare and tremble Gal. 5.22 Where this Spirit is there is peace towards God with men yea with all men as much as is possible There is also loue to God to men for Gods cause louing our enemies praying for and doing good to them that hate and persecute vs Iohn 15.26 all maliciousnes enuy and euill speaking being laid aside If thou hast this spirit it will lead thee into the truth and preserue thee from error This is the holy Spirit and therefore hauing it it will sanctifie thee and make thee holy And is the Comforter giuing that ioy to man Iohn 15.26 and 16.22 which the world cannot take from him Where he dwelleth there is a continuall feast He makes the children of men to reioyce in afflictions taking away the bitternes of them If it fall out so that thou bee in prison in close prison and so want the company of men suppose of Angels too though that is not possible yet art thou not alone but hast one with thee to whom thou mayest make thy mone and in whose society thou mayest solace thy selfe He will lead thee when thou walkest watch for thee when thou sleepest and when thou wakest talke with thee and comfort thee in the houre of death when others dying shall be in heauinesse Is not he now happy that is one of the Church And yet heare what further I say vnto thee All of the Church for as much as they haue the Spirit of God are the children of God and soâ—eires of God and coheires with Christ Gal. 4.6 Because yee are sonnes saith the Apostle God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Sonne into your hearts And againe As many as are led by the Spirit of God Rom. 8.14 they are the sonnes of God Then he addeth If children also heires euen the heires of God and coheires with Christ For this cause all of this fellowship are most happy and of all persons vnder heauen the most honorable in truth though not in the account of the world
vnwilling to passe by Maister Robison with silence who of late hath saide so much against our interpretation of it He beginneth thus The point is Maister Bernard following I confesse the most beaten way makes the fielde the visible Church and the tares scandalous offenders IustificatioÌ„ 116 seene and discouered That which Maister Bernard calles the interpretation of learned and godly Deuines vniuersally both with vs Separatists Schisme 87. and beyond the Seas Maister Robinson not vnfitly calleth here the most bea en way but with all we may remember what he saith further of the said exposition that it is a prophane glose Iustification 116. 117. and againe that some are ashamed of the grossenes and indeede of the iniquitie of the saide exposition But leauing your reproachfull tearmes come we to the matter You must first then vndâ—rstâ—nd that by tares we doe not meane scandalous and notorious offenders Iustif 118. or open wicked men onely as diuers times you charge vs nor yet hypocrites not so throughly discouered but thereby we doe vnderstand both these sorts of hypocrites and wicked men and so all the hypocrits and vngodly that be in the Church whosoeuer as well those that be not discouered as those that bee discouered and known by their open wickednesse to be hypocrites as well those vngodly that hauing a shew of godlines are reputed godly as those whose wicked and leawde conuersation declareth them to be vngodly For who can denie but that by tares Iesus meaneth all in the visible Church beside the godly resembled by wheate Againe Christ expounding the parable saith expressely vers 38. That the tares are that is signifie the children of that wicked one that is the diuell the enemy who sowed them but all hypocrites and wicked men both secretly and openly such are the children of the diuell Therefore by tares Christ meaneth all hypocrites and wicked in the Church whatsoeuer Adde hereunto that by tares are shadowed foorth all that shall bee burned in hell fire also all those which doe iniquitie as vers 41. That is all workers of iniquitie But all hypocrites and vngodly whatsoeuer whether openly or secretly such shall be damned and are workers of iniquitie Therefore all those Christ meaneth by tares This being true Iustif 118. these following lines of yours be vntrue Admit the field be the Church which Christ expounds the world then say I by tares in the field are meant not notorious offenders but hypocrites not so throughly discouered which by the enuy of Sathan are foysted into the Church These lines are false two wayes 1. As they haue reference to vs and our exposition of tares 2. As they haue relation to the Separists and their interpretation of the same word But proceede we now to the moued reason which you haue against our exposition Iustif 116. Whereupon meaning if the visible Church be the field and the tares scandalous offenders it must followe say you that as the Lord forbids the seruants to meddle with the tares or with the plucking them vp but will haue them and the wheate to growe together in the fielde till the haruest so Ministers and people are straightly inhibited and forbidden any way to admonish and censure wicked and scandalous persons in the Church but must let them there remaine without disturbance till the last iudgement I answer Some of the learned Diuines which you thus despise haue preuented this obiection and told you that to collect and reason from this Scripture as you doe is to abuse Scripture Cauendum ne his verbis abutamur contra doctrinam de disciplina Ecclesia c. Piscâ—tor in hunc locum We must saith Piscator take heede that we abuse not these wordes against the doctrine of the discipline of the Church by which offences are to be taken away out of the Church as much as may be For Christ in this parable as appeareth by his exposion of it aymeth at no other thing then to comfort the godly against the grieuances which they haue by conuersing with hypocrites in the meane while he would haue nothing minished from the discipline of the Church as which he himselfe instituted after Chap. 18.17 By the like reason the vse of the sword should bee taken from the Magistrate which God would haue to be vsed as Paul testifieth Rom. 13. This parable then is not to be extended further then the scope thereof requireth Secondly I answere you Iesus heere speaketh of a perfect seperation betweene the wheate and tares that is the godly and vngodly such as shall leaue no tares not a tare I say among the wheaâ—e For he speaketh of such a seperation as cannot be made without daunger to the wheate for which cause he forbids it as vers 29. Secondly of that seperation which shall bee made by the Angels in the end of the world vers 30.41 Now this letteth not nor forbiddeth a seperation in the meane season betwixt the cleane and those be apparently vncleane the holy and prophane the godly and notorious offenders which may be seperated and taken away from the godly without any daunger to them at all This reason likes you so well Iustif 120. that you vrge it the second time and thereunto adde two reasons more And that the Lord Iesus say you no way speakes of the tolleration of prophane persons in the Church it doeth appeare by these reasons First because as hath beene obserued he doeth not contradict himselfe by forbidding the vse of the keyes in one place which in another he hath turned vpon impenitent offenders Matth. 18.15.16.17 2. In the excommunication of sinners apparently obstinate with due circumspection and in the spirit of wisdome meekenesse and long suffering with such other generall Christian vertues as with which all our spirituall sacrifices ought to be seasoned what danger can there bee of any such disorder as the plucking vp of the wheate with the tares which the husbandman feareth vers 29. Lastly the Lord Iesus speakes of the vtter ruinating and destruction of the tares the gathering and plucking them vp by the rootes vers 28.29 And to this end they are reserued by the husbandman vers 30. euer presupposed they so continued but excommunication rightly administred is not for the ruine and destruction of any but for the saluation of the partie thereby humbled Your first reason in effect is this If Iesus speake heere of the tolleration of prophane persons in the Church then heere he forbids the weeding out or censuring of them whom in another place vz. Matth. 18.15 Hee commands to be weeded out or censured But Iesus doeth not contradict himselfe Therefore Iesus speaketh not here of the tolleration of prophane persons This reason being the very same with the former hath receiued answere The second argument is this Christ speaketh of and forbiddeth such a seperation as wherein there is danger of plucking vp the wheate with the tares But in the excommunication of sinners apparantly
obstinate or seperating such from the Church there is no danger of plucking vp the wheate with the tares Therefore of the excommunication of sinners apparantly obstinate or seperating such from the Church Christ speaketh not nor forbiddeth Your third argument followeth Iesus spâ—aketh of the vtter ruinating and destruction of the tares But excommunication rightly administred is not for the ruinating and destruction of any Therefore of excommunication Iesus doeth not speake We now see clearely that these two latâ—er arguments doe conclude and proue the same thing But what not that which your first argument doeth as you pretend and beare the silly reader in hand but in stead thereof this that in the parable of the tares Christ speakes not of excommunication or censures of the Church which we not onely confesse but teach and vrge against you But suppose they did soundly prooue that proposition for which the are produced to wit that in the parable of the tares Iesus doeth not speake of the tolleration of prophane persons in the Church yet did they not at all make against vs for by prophane persons you meane 1. Scandalous offenders or open wicked 2. Such onely deny eyther of these if you will And so by your owne proposition which forsooth you will prooue by three arguments you imply that we teach that by tares are meant scandalous offenders or knowne wicked onely The contrary whereunto is manifest by the premises You commit then here two foule faults besides the former One is you persue your owne shadowe in stead of an aduersary 2. You abuse the reader in making him beleeue wee hold that we doe not But to proceede say you It may be some will answere Iustif 117. that Christ doeth not heere forbid his Disciples the vse of the censures against the wicked but rather acquaints them before hand what will be the state of the Church and how the wicked will be suffered to continue in it vncensured This is indeede our answere and I will maintaine it against all gainesayers You adde and if this were so it made nothing against me nor for Maister Bernard No Maister Robinson If there will bee and continue wicked in the Church vncensured if this will be the estate of the visible Church by the testimonie of Christ Iesus then for as much as all that be and continue in the visible church are of it euen members of it it must needes be that the visible Church is a mixt company consisting of good and bad godly and wicked Now this makes as much for vs and against you as can be You write before thus Heere is no such mingle mangle as Maister Bernard would make of good and bad but all good Iustif 115. 112. 113. and so auowed by the holy Ghost And againe that if all the Diuines in the world should with Maister Bernard say that the visible Church is a mixt company yet the deuine Scriptures speake otherwise which you will clearely manifest And yet once more It is prophane diuinitie to make vngodly persons true matter of the visible Church These speaches of yours with this heere doe agree together as light and darkenes Againe if to the worlds ende there will be and continue wicked in the Church vncensured If I say this will be the estate of the visible church as the truth is to foretel comfort the godly against it is the very scope and drift of our Sauiour in this parable why do you then condemne vs for a false Church because of the wicked that are among vs Answere to a censo Epist pag. 35. and for this cause chiefely seperate from vs In these two respects principally say you your babylonish confusion of all sorts of people in the body of your Church without seperation and your Babilonish bondage vnder your spirituall Lords the Prelates we account you Babilon and flee from you Shewe vs how this speech here and your accounting our Church to be Babilon for the reason aforefaide and flying from it can possibly accord Iustif 117. You adde It were the Churches sinne so to suffer them that is the wicked to continue in the Church vnsensured And I deny not say you but Churches vsually are too negligent and remisse through want of zeale and faithfulnesse to the Lord in this dutie This is it we teach it were well for you yee had learned the same If you haue as you heere pretend why doe you account our parishionall assemblies because of the wicked that be in them false Churches and Synagogues of Sathan you acknowledge heere ecclesiasticall assemblies may bee true Churches notwithstanding there be and continue wicked in them vncensured And yet the truth is you all hold that where there are and continue wicked vncensured the same are false Churches Iustif 120. Finally say you The Lords field is sowen onely with good seed though by the malice of Satan and negligence of such as should keepe this field and vineyard and house of God adulterate seede and abominable persons may be foisted in yea and suffered also which the Scriptures affirme and we deny not Such is the excellencie and power of truth that it maketh sometimes the aduersaries thereof to yeeld and stoupe vnto it For twice together you doe against your selfe beare witnesse to the truth You here acknowledge that abominable persons may be in the Church of God yea and suffered also that is abide or continue there and that this the Scriptures affirme Now touching the particular point wee haue in hand this is the some and effect of that we say and contend for and you impugne and gaine say But answere mee Are there any worse in our Church then this adulterate seede you speake of and abominable persons 2. Can you adde thereto any more or worse then this that they are suffered also that is let to continue in our Church vncensured If notwithstanding this great sinne a societie may bee a true Church by the testimonie of the holy Scriptures why doe you for this very sinne Iudge and proclaime vs to the world to be a false Church and therevpon depart from vs True it is that for this cause onely you doe not deeme vs a false Church and leaue vs yet that you doe it for this cause yea chiefely for this very cause you cannot without blushing deny and this not onely your selfe but besides M. Ainsworth and M. Smith haue published and made knowne vnto the world as I haue manifested in my Epistle written to you of the Seperation That which you affirme here you contradict at least I thinke an hundred times Omitting them all see how you thwart your selfe in the two last lines of this present Section Iustiss 121. And so except the Church of England had been sowen with good seed without tares since that generall Apostacie it cannot be the Lords field In the beginning of the Section in thesi you affirme that howsoeuer the Lords field is sowen onely with good
this their error there was iust cause of the pursuing hereof to the full according as I was able Defence of the Churches and Ministers of England 7. Counterp 3. Your people saith M. Fr. Iohnson are not seperated from the world but stand in confusion with it and therefore cannot bee deemed a true church of God and the people of Christ But leauing this man let vs heare what M. Ainsworth saith thereunto in a booke lately published called the Counterpoyson We forsake saith he your church for this maine corruption that all sorts of prophane and wicked men haue ben and are both they and their seede receiued into and nourished within the bosome of your church contrary to the first couenant of our redemption wherein God with his own mouth proâ—laimed a perpetuall enmitie and warre against the serpent and his seede which the woman and her seede should wage though with the bruysing of the heele thereof Gen. 3. Contrary also to the example of all Gods churches since the world began who alwayes were seperated from the vngodly as the Scriptures shewe Now that this is a corruption among you your selues haue taught saying and complayning that in the church are swarmes of Atheists Idolaters Papists sectaries witches charmers sorcerers murtherers theeuâ—s adulterers lyars c. This testimony being true I hope your selues now will be ashamed to pleade that such a people are Christians and to be communicated with or deny that we may seperate from them in things concerning God And a little after saying there are 4. causes of their seperation he telleth vs that the first of them concerning the people meaning because of the mixture of bad with good which is among vs. Seeing the falsehood and vanitâ—e of these and the rest of the lines here following doe manifestly appeare by the premises I wil not bee so vnwise as at large conuince you the second time onely by the way as it were I will say a word or two as I shall see cause That wicked men that is open wicked men for that is your meaning are not to be suffered to remaine in the church we acknowledge especially if they be very vile and abhominable dogges and swine and that where such a thing is endured it is a corruption and the sinne of that Church We likewise confesse that in our church are many open wicked So that in proouing that which we freely confesse to bee true where about M. Ainsworth hath spent a great part of his Counterpoyson you deale very childishly But if passing by this you hereafter prooue that we deny you shall quit your seâ—ues like men Gen. 3.15 In the meane season wee haue two proofes or arguments from you such as they are It is say you contrary to the first couenant of our redemption I will put enmitie betweene thee and the woman and betweene thy seede and her seede hee shall breake thine head and thou shalt bruise his heele The next tâ—me you write conclude from this Scripture that the being of open wicked in the Church doeth nullifie a Church and giue iust cause to the godly of seperation If this you cannot wherof I am very sure you abuse both this Scrâ—pture and the reader You imply here and teach expressely else where That the couenant of redemption and saluation God made with the visible church That this is false I haue made plaine hereafter and wil not therefore speake of it heere Note their peruerting of Scripture Where learne you by the woman and her seede to vnderstand Christ and the visible Church you haue not beene taught this of God Besides you contradict your selfe For in your confession of Faith you vnderstand this Scripture of the inuisible Church Art 5. Where for proofe of this that the Elect all and onely are redeemed you alleadge Gen. 3.15 I will put enmitie c. You intimate also that the perpetuall enmitie that is in the world for Religion is betweene them onely that are in the Church and them that are without and that there is no enmitie but all amitie and friendship among those that are in the visible Church They all beare vnfaiâ—ed loue one to another as in your description of the visible Church you teach You might be of the Famiâ—y of loue Familists and not Brownists by this doctrine of yours The holy Scriptures shew vs the direct contrary That euen in the Church and betweene the members thereof there hath beene perpetuall enmitie and deadly hatred whence it hath alwayes beene that that some of the Church haue slandered raised vpon and saide all manner of euill against the godly and often times spoyled them not onely in their good name but also in their goods banished imprisoned and put them to death Caine belike had no enmitie to Habel nor Esau to Iacob nor Saul to Dauid nor the Scribes and Pharisees to the faithfull then liuing Your sâ—cond reason is That since the world beganne there was neuer in the Churches of God a mixture of wicked and prophane with the godly but the godly were alwayes seperated from the vngodâ—y And therefore ought to be so at this day Prooue the Antecedent and we will graunt you the conclusion Haue I not shewed that this mixture was in the families of Abraham and Isaack wherin the Church was shut vp for a time Also in the Church in Moses time in Dauids time and the ages succeeding him and lastly in the dayes of Christ Nay I haue made it plaine that in Dauid Isaiah Ieremiah Micah their times there were not only wicked men and open wicked but so many wicked and vngodly in the Church that there were scarce any godly to bee found Psal 12.1 according to that complaint of Dauid vnto God Helpe Lord for there is not a godly man left In like manner did the church swarme with wicked yea open wicked wheÌ„ our lord Iesus was on earth as hereafter shal be made euident Counterp 23. How far are you then from the truth who teach That there neuer haue beene prophane and wicked men in the Church and that this is contrary to the example of all Gods Churches since the world began Obserue their abuse of holy Scripture who alwayes were seperated from the godly as you say and againe in these words They cannot shewe any true church since the beginning of the world but was of a seperated people Gen. 6.1.2 12. Leuit. 20.23.24 Ezr. 6.21 Act. 2.40.41 19.9 c. If for confirmation of this grosse and palpable error you should cote as many places of Scripture as there be heares of your head it would doe you no good but onely shewe that you feare not to peruert holy Scripture to take the name of God in vaine no more then a fish to drinke water And here marke I beseech thee Christian Reader wherein we and these Seperatists differ as touching seperation Wee acknowledge a seperation of the people of God and professors of true
there are none of the diuels children for the diuell raigneth in all his children But you say in the visible Church there bee none in whom the Prince of this world the deuill raigneth for it is a company seperated from all such Therefore in the visible Church there are no children of the diuel and so by consequent are all the children of God by faith in Iesus Christ But these things you knowe and acknowledge to be false that therefore from whence they are inferred which all of you stiffely hold and maintaine to wit that the visible Church is a company of people seperated from the world is likewise false This generaall doctrine of theirs he thus applieth to vs. Answere to a censorious Epistle pag. 5. Which seperation the church of England neither hath made nor doeth make but stands actually one with all that part of the world within the kingdome without seperation for which cause amongst others we haue chosen by the grace of God rather to seperate our selues to the Lord from it then with it from him in the visible constitution of it Answere It is true we neither haue made nor goe about to make a seperation from the men of this world and betwixt them whom Christ by his spirit ruleth and them in whom the Prince of this world raigneth This passeth our skill and power and is such as is vnpossible to be performed by vs. Our Lord Iesus onely can and will doe this by the Angels in the day of his glorious comming to iudgement And where you say that wee stand actually one with all that part of the world within the kingdome it is false and slanderous For we onely stand actually one with all those in the kingdome that professe the same religion with vs which the Pap among vs who be not a few with whatsoeuer other hereticks or schismatiks do not except it be in hypocrisie which we cannot hinder but must leane to God therfore I say we stand not actually one with all in the kingdome except there be in our land no Papists no Heretickes or Schismaticks If you obiect heere our Church Papists and say that we receiue Papists into our Church and communion with vs. It is answered already and I adde They professe to be of the same Christian Religion with vs and to forsake poperie in comming to our publike assembles and pertaking with vs there in the holy things of God If they doe this hypocritically what is that to vs But especially marke that this is one cause of their seperation yea a principall cause thereof as he saith in another place In these two respects principally Answere to a censorious Epistle pag. â— your Babilonish confusion of all sorts of people in the body of your Church without seperation and your Babilonish bondage vnder your lords the prelates we account you Babylon and flee from you And speaking of this want of seperation Ibid. 43. and confusion else where he hath these words It is not by our sequestration but by your confusion that Rome and hell gaines Your odious commixture of all sorts of people in the body of your Church in whose lap the vilest miscreants are dandled sucking her breasts as her naturall children is that aduantageth hell Wee see how this man condemneth the mixture of good and bad godly and vngodly in the Church calling it an odious commixture confusion and Babilonish confusion that principally for this and one other cause they account vs Babylon and flye from vs. And yet hath this commixture of all sorts of people beene euer in the Church as hath beene manifested out of the sacred Scripture What age then could these men haue liued in wherein they might not for this cause as iustly haue seperated from the Church and haue accounted it likewise Babylon It cannot be denied but that in Sauls raigne there were most vile men dandled as you tearme it in the lap of the Church considering he himselfe the head of that people was so vile Nay by the booke of the Psalmes it is euident that in Dauids time there were store of leawde and vile men in the Church Psal 12. 69. And so were there in the dayes of Isaiah Ieremiah and other of the Prophets Yea what say you M. Robinson to the age wherein Christ Iesus liued and his Apostles The Scribes and Pharisees then were most vile miscreants and they being principâ—l members in the Church as the eyes re in the body it must bee confessed that they did sit in the lappe of the Church and sucked her breasts as if they had beene her naturall children No lesse vile were those that had crept into the church of whom Iude speaketh Yet notwithstanding this commixture and Babilonish confusion as you call it did neither the Prophets nor Iesus nor his Apostles seperate from the Church but had religious communion with this confused society consisting of all sorts of people The commixture then in our Church you speake of is no iust cause of seperation and why you should account vs Babylon But râ—turnâ— we to M. Robison Ibid. 4. The seperation wee haue made in respect of our knowledge and obedience is indeede late and newe yet is it in the nature and causes thereof as auncient as the Gospel which was first founded in the enmitie which God himselfe put betwixt the seede of the woman and the seed of the serpent Gâ—n 3.15 Which enmitie hath not onely ben successiuely continued but also visibly manifested by the actuall seperation of all true churches from the world in their collection and constitution before the Lawe vnder the Lawe and vnder the Gospell Gen. 4.13.14.16 6.1 2. 7.1.7 with 1. Pet. 3 20.21 12. Leu 20.24.26 Neh. 9.2 Ioh. 17.14.16 Act. 2.40 19.9 1. Cor. 6.17 Aâ—swere If we speake of practise among vs your seperation is as auncient as Browne who first caused or at least greatly furthered that seperation and schisme from our Church where vpon you are called Brownists But if you speake of the doctrine August Tom. 7 contra Cresco Gram. lib. 2. cap. 34. then is it as auncient as Donatus after whom some were called Donatists or rather as some schismaticks in Cyprians time of whom Austen writing against the Donatists maketh mention That the visible Church is not a mixt company consisting of good and bad but is a company seperated from the world that is from the men of the world or a seperated company of righteous men which all of you doe hold this I say is neither founded of the Lawe nor Gospell nor any part of Gods word but in the bottomles pit by the diuell the father of lyes I meane of all lying and false doctrines and was long since publ shed August Tom. 7 Collâ—tiâ—nâ—bus cum Donatists and contended for by the former heretickes specially the Donatists who for this cause seperated from the Church of God in their times and is now after many hundred
in the visible Church are members of it vntill by excommunication they bee cut of But by your owne confession wicked men are in the visible Church therefore wicked men are members of it Which if it bee true all your doctrine almost of the visible Church is false But to put an end to this point and part of your description By the premises it is plaine that a true visible Church is not seperated from the world that is a company of righteous and godly men onely seperated from the open wicked of the world For if a visible Church be a mixt company of good and bad godly and vngodly for which cause it is compared to a barne floore to a field and to a draw-net as hath been shewed out of the holy Scriptures againe if from time to time in the ages precedent both vnder the Law and Gospell there haue beene and remained in the true visible Church vvicked yea many wicked and open wicked as hath likewise been made manifest by the Scriptures how can it possible be true which you affirme That a visible Church is a seperated companie of righteous men not mixed with but seperated from the wicked of the world If this doctrine of yours be true the one of these doe necessarily follow either the former persons of whom I haue spoken so much Ismael Esau Doeg Saul Absalom the Scribes and Pharises were not openly wicked and men of this world or not in the Church but without or else that the Church wherein they in thâ—ir time liued was not a true but a false Church The premises considered it is very fondly done of you so often to obiect against vs the mixture of good and bad in our Church Calling it Cofusion Babel Babilonish confusion and our Churches because of it Babylon and a meere madnesse for this cause to seperate from our Church And thus much concerning this clause in your description seperated from the world The rest of your description I omit as not greatly to bee found fault with though something might bee said against it For where you say It is a company ioyned together by voluntarie profession you should raâ—her haue said ioyning together c. Wee are ioyned and knit together by loue and doe ioyne and agree in the same profession And where you require a voluntarie profession of the faith of Christ and tels vs elsewhere that a true Church consisteth of a voluntary people and that ours are confused and compelled and so a false church You must know that a man may bee of the visible Church albeit his profession be not voluntarie as hath been declared before Neither is that so fit you adde of the Faith of Christ as if you had said of the true Religion The Papists professe the faith of Christ and so doe the Anabaptists Families with sundry others and yet are they false Churches But whatsoeuer societie professeth true Religion is a true church To conclude Apology 44. Confession of Faith 11. Counterp 133. this I say that vnderstanding these words seperated from the world as Christ meaneth Ioh. 17.14.16 and 15.19 Which testimonies you here in your confession of faith and in the Counterpoyson alledge for the proofe of this and therefore must so vnderstand them without manifest peruerting of the said Scriptures then is this a description rather of the militant Church or those of the inuisible Church that are effectually called then of the visible Church CHAP. III. Of the matter and forme of the visible Church AS these men doe greatly erre in their description of the visible Church so doe they likewise in other points touching the same and namely about the matter and forme thereof Iustification 88. 82. The constitution of the Church saith M. Robinson is the orderly collection and coniunction of the Saints into and in the couenant of the new Testament wherein the Saints are the matter the couenant the forme from which two concurring the Church ariseth and is by them constituted And in another place deliuering the very same with this hee addeth And this is that which giues true being of a Church and nothing else Because of this let vs so much the more carefully seeke out the true matter aâ—d forme of the visible Church and remember that if the Separists mistake the matter and forme of the visible Church as the trueth is they doe they cannot iudge aright of the Church and therefore their iudgement and account of our Church is to be despised We hold as hath already beene saide men not Angels or any other creatures but a company of men to be the matter of the visible Church and the profession of true Religion to be the forme So that wheresoeuer there is a company of men ioyning together in the profession of true Religion the same is and may truely be called a visible Church The Seperators teach otherwise and first that Saints are the matter of the visible Church forgetting that a company of Saints are a Church by the Testimony of the holy Ghost as before hath beene shewed in the third Chapter of the first booke and therefore such a societie containeth in it as well the forme as the matter without both which nothing can be But we must know that howsoeuer the Separists euen all of them agree in this That Saints are the matter of the visible Church yet notwithstanding they disagree at least in appearance about the matter because they differ about these Saints who Instif 105. principles and Inferenâ—es 10. M. Smith in his Answere to M. Beâ—n rd 27 28. Separatists Schisme 83. Counterp 174. and what they be Saints say some of them are a people forsaking all knowne sinne doing all the knowne will of God growing in grace and continuing to the ende and these say M. Smith and M. Robinson are the onely matter of the visible Church This being conuinced by some of our side M. Ainsworth answereth thus This position meaning the aforesaide description of Saints and that such are the matter of the visi church I deny and also disclaime the errors which be gathered from it and therefore will spend no time in answering it but referre M. Bernard to them that haue so spoken or written if any be This we hold and let vs see what M. Bernard can say against it That Saints by calling are the onely matter of a true visible church For confutation of this that M. Ainsworth and the more auncient of this schisme doe maintaine that little which hath beene saide may suffice and the rather because but a litle before M. Ainsworth accordeth with vs and is as contrary to himselfe herein as we be Counterp 170. To the constitution of a Church saith he there belong 1. A people as the matter whereof and 2. A calling gathering and vniting together as the forme whereof the Church consisteth Where obserue how he contradicteth himselfe 1. Hee expressely affirmeth that a people which is the same that wee teach
Church in the one of these times this complaint was taken vp Ah sinfull nation a people ladâ—n with iniquitie c. And of the other this Helpe Lord for there is not a godly man left c. These children of wrath might I now argue with you this sinfull generation could not possibly bâ—e members of the body of Christ nor haue him for their head and therefore was not a true but a false Church And marke heere gentle Reader I pray thee how this man affirmeâ—h first That all of the visible Church are members of the Body of Christ Secondly but more truely that all the members of the body of Christ are partakers of his life and spirit so as whosoeuer doeth not participate with this life and spirit is no member But with this lâ—fe and spirit the inuisible Church onely and company of the Elect I meane so many of them as are effectually called doe partake as before I haue prooued Therefore not the visible but the called of the inuisibâ—e Church are members of the body of Christ and make that body whereof Iesus is the hâ—ad And hereby he excludeth and shutteth out of the visible Church all reprobates all hypocrites and wicked men as well secret as open wicked and maketh it to consist onely of godly or righteous men indeede or if you will of the Elâ—ct alone For saith he all the members of the true visible Church are members of the Body of Christ not dead but liuing members partaking with the spirit and life of Christ But no râ—probate hypocrite or wicked man is a liuing member of the Body of Christ partaking with the spirit and life of Christ Therâ—fore none such are of the true visible Church Againe onely the Elect and sincere or truely godly are such liuing members Therfore onely such by your wise doctrine are of the true visible Church Moreouer obserue heere that by this mans doctrine in the true visible Church there are no children of the diuell For saith he Christ hath no concord with Belial therefore not with his children Againe All the members of the true visible Church are members of Christ his glorious Body But the dead stinking and abhominable members of Sathan are not members of Christs glorious Body therefore not of the true visible church Wherevpon foâ—loweth that all of the true visible Church are the children of God and so heires of saluation for if children heires And particularly that Cain Ismael Esau Saul Absalom Iudas and the Scribes and Pharisees were the children of God and are sauâ—d for all these were members of the true visible Church And tell me M. Ainsworth yâ—u that will haue no children of Beliall no dead stinking and abhominable members of Sathan members of the true visible Church but require that all the members of the visible Church bee members of the glorious Body of Christ hauing him for thâ—ir head fâ—r which cause you condemne the Church of England for a false Churâ—h because in it there be many dead and rotten members tell me I say in your next Treatise first whether this reason of yours proues not as is in part aforesaide as well the Church of the Iewes in Christs time as also before and after in the dâ—yes of his Apostles to be a false Church as weâ—l as ours Secondly whether Cain Esau Iudas and the rest aboue named were liuing members partâ—king of Christ his life and Spiâ—it or dead stinking and the abhominable members of Sathan And this latter being true which you cannot deny whether dead stinking and abhominable members of Sathan haue not beene members of the true visible Church seeing these were no better members and yet were all of the vis church Marke also how in the former words hee requireth faith and repentance in euery member of the visible Church And so he doeth a little before The people of EnglaÌ„d in the beginning of Q. Elizabeths raigne Counterp 127. did not enter into the church by repentance faith in Christ but by the commandement of the Magistrate were compelled vnto the Church Sacraments and ministery Now the Magistrates lawe cannot worke faith in any Ephes 2.8 Rom. 10.17 seeing faith is the gift of God and by his word onely is wrought in mans heart I haue told you before and now tell you againe that not faith and repentance but the profâ—ssion of these is necessary to the making of a membâ—r of the visible church and that thereunto the Magistrates law and authoritie will drawe and perswade men Had you and the rest of your societie learned this you would neuer then haue required these graces nor such holinesse at least externall in all the members of the visible church as you doe But it is no maruell though you requâ—re faith and repentance not in the iudgement of charitie but in deede and veritie in euery member of the visible Church Communion of Saints 321. and tell vs else where that this is the doore whereby a man must enter into the Church considering you teach that the visible Church is the Body of Christ and that all the members of the visible Church are members of his misticall body and partakers of his spirit and life For no vnbeleeuer and impenâ—tent person is member of the misticall bodie of Christ You now that require true faith and repentance in euery member of the visible Church say whether any of the visible Church can be damned For the Scripture saith He that beleeueth is saued alreadie hath passed from death to life And that If the wicked returne from all his sinnes which he hath committed and keepe all Gods statutes Ezech. 18.21 that is If he repent he shall surely liue and shall not die After many friuelous lines tending hereunto that there is peace and agreement betweene Christ and all of the visible Church That in the Church among the members thereof there is no hatred or enmitie both which are palpably false you drawing to an end of the proofe of your Assumption vse these words following By this it may appeare that Christ is no head of such Antichristians Pag. 130. nor of any other prophane wicked worldlings seeing his spirit giues them not life and motion but they are carried by the spirit of Satan that possessed them neither can they bee knit vnto him by ioynts or bands as all his body and members thereof are Therefore saith hee the Church of England is not the true Church of God Thus the second time you tell vs and truely That Christ his body and all the members thereof haue his spirit giuing them life and motion wherby as by ioynts or bands they are knit vnto him the head But againe say I the called of the inuisible Church only haue this spirit by this spirit are knit vnto the head Christ They therefore onely are the body of Christ and to him vnited as the head Againe many of the true visible Church that I say not the greatest part therof haue
not this spirit causing in them this life and motion thereby also as by ioynts or bands knitting them vnto Christ the head but in stead thereof are carried by the spirit of Satan that possesseth them as hath often been shewed Many therefore of the true visible church are not members of Christs body And therefore also the church of England may bee a true church notwithstanding there be many in and of it who be not the members of Christs body led by his spirit but prophane wicked worldlings carried by the spirit of Satan that possâ—sseth them You who teach that in the true visible Church there be no prophane wicked worldlings none that are carried by the spirit of Satan possessing them and for this cause will haue it to be a false church answere me I pray you First whether the Scribes and Pharises were pro phane wicked and worldlings Ioh. 6.70 and 13.25 and whether they were carried by the spirit of Satan yea or no and namely Iudas whom Iesus calleth a Diuell and of whom it is said that Satan entred into him Secondly whether all the Diuels children bee not carried by his spirit And let this suffice for answere to your first argument The second followeth Argument 5 Euery true Church of God hath Christ for the Mediator and Aduocate of the same For it is written There is one God Counterp 132. and one Mediator betweene God and Man which is the man Christ Iesus 1. Tim. 2.5 1. Ioh. 2.1 And if any man sinne we haue an Aduocate with the Father Iesus Christ the iust Neither is there saluation in any other for among men there is giuen no other name vnder heauen wherby we must be saued Act. 4.22 But the Church of England hath not Christ for the Mediator and aduocate of the same Therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of God Paralleles 86. In like manner M. Smith reasoneth against vs The true Church hath Christ for their Mediator But your assemblies haue him not for their Mediator Therefore they be false Churches Answ I answere True it is that Christ is the Mediator and Aduocate of euery true Church that is of euery seuerall congregation or company of true beleeuers but that hee is such to euery true visible Church as you meane I vtterly deny And grant that it might be said That Iesus is the Mediator and Aduocate of euery true visible Church it must needs bee in respect and with relation had to them vvho be of the inuisible Church which makes nothing for you nor against vs. Your Proposition therefore is false neither doe the testimonies alleadged by you confirme it They onely proue that Christ Iesus is a Mediator betweene God and man and an Aduocate to the Father for him Who in their wits but you and your Disciples by man in Timothy will vnderstand the visible Church or euery true visible Church and not rather the inuisible Church and all of mankinde who be of Gods elect whose alone Mediator and Aduocate Iesus is The Papists may more probably by man vnderstand all mankinde and make Iesus the Mediator of all men as they affirme that he died for all men then you the visible Church seeing the letter of the Scripture here maketh for that exposition And surely the one is as true as the other As little doth the place of Iohn auaile you For neither doth he say That Christ is the Aduocate of the visible Church or of euery true visible Church which is that you are to proue and make your vnaduised Reader beleeue you doe proue when you doe nothing lesse Nay your Proposition may be conuinced by this Scripture so farre is it from confirming and strengthning of it For whose aduocate Christ is said here to be for their sins in the next verse he is said to be a propitiation But he is a propitiation onely for the sinnes of the Elect or inuisible Church which your selues will not deny Therfore the Aduocate onely of the inuisible Church and consequently not of the visible When Iohn had said that Iesus Christ is our Aduocate he addeth And he is the propitiation for our sinnes 1. Ioh. 2.2 and not for ours onely but also for the sinnes of the whole world If by the whole world you vnderstand the whole visible Church as by your alleadging of this Scripture for proofe of your Proposition you seeme to doe you must needs doe or else cry peccaui for alleadging it then wil the whole Christian world reiect this your expâ—sition And know ye that that which is hâ—re said by Iohn is as true of the whole world as of the whole vis Church and that Christ is and shall as soone be a propitiation and aduocate for the sinnes of the whole world as an Aduocate for the whole visible Church The truth then is that by world here is meant all whosoeuer in the world beleeue in Christ Iewes or Gentiles or all Gods elect throughout the whole world For their sinnes Christ Iesus is said to bee a propitiation and for them onely is he an aduocate And this is confirmed by Paul Rom. 8.33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of Gods chosen It is God that iustifieth Who shall condemne Meaning any of this chosen generation Implying that it is not possiblâ— that any of them should be damned And why Because for all of this societie as onely for them Christ died and rose againe and maketh request also for them If now one aske the question for whom Christ dâ—ed for whom he rose againe and for whom he maketh intercession the answere is readie for Gods chosen which be thâ—y we call the inuisible Church But you giue vs an other answere and say he is the Aduocate and maketh intercession for the visibâ—e church You may as well and truely say that Christ died for the visible church For by this Scripture it is cleere that hee is an Aduocate and maketh request to God his Father for them for whom hee died But he died Coâ—fession of faith 26. say you else-where for the elect onely therefore as Aduâ—cate hee maketh request onâ—ly for the elect And by consequent Iesus is not the Aduocate of the vis church as you teach except the vis church be the societie of the elect and the visible and inuisible church be all one Verse 20. In the 17 of Iohn our Sauiour saith I pray not for these alone meaning the eleuen Disciples but for them also which shall beleue in me through their word But the elect and inuisible church onely beleeue in Christ T it 1.1 Act. 13.48 wherevpon faith is called the faith of Gods elect and in the Acts it is said As many as were ordained to eternall life beleeued Therefore the elect and inuisible church onely haue Christ Iesus for their Aduocate Thus we see your first proofe of the Proposition maketh nothing for you the second greatly against you helping to conuince you