his preposterous actions Physiologus Preposterous actions indeed for the diuell to appropriate to himselfe the peculiar organon of the possessed mans soule Do you imagine the Lord euer propounded any such end to himselfe in the creation of bodies Or do you suppose the Lord euer granted so large a commission or that the diuell himselfe euer receiued such an absolute power concerning the bodies of men But go to what becomes of the soule or spirit all the while the diuell himselfe is really inherent in the possessed mans bodie Remaines the soule still in that bodie as in her proper habitation appointed of God till the day of her vtter dissolution by death Or is it for the whole time of the diuell his being in that bodie vtterly exiled thrust out from the same Lycanthropus Naie the soule is not euen then secluded or shut out from the bodie at al but continueth and lieth therein like a subdued prisoner fast bound hand and foote yeelding ouer to the diuel for that present his whole interest concerning the bodie and endureth perforce his inexorable and tyrannous crueltie Physiologus But tell me I pray you is not the soule or the minde of a man an incorporall substance or a spirit equally diffused and spred throughout the whole bodie and euerie part thereof according to powers and proportion not Arithmeticall but Geometricall so as all the members of the bodie it selfe doth effectually fulfill their peculiar offices accordingly They being the proper instruments of that selfesame minde or spirituall substance furdering freely the organicall operation thereof and excecuting readily whatsoeuer the minde shall giue them in charge And that therefore this selfesame bodie being thus vtterly depriued as you say for the present of the soules organicall operation is in effect but dead to the soule because wheresoeuer is an vtter priuation of the soules operations concerning the bodie there the life of that man is for the present dissolued Hold you all this for a truth Lycanthropus Yea I may not denie any part thereof Physiologus Seeing then you doe flatly conclude that the minde or spirit of man is the first substantiall forme or action in a liuing bodie and the originall or primarie cause of all effects whatsoeuer performed duly therein as being that onlie whereby we doe liue perceiue desire are moued in place and doe also vnderstand how is it possible that the soule or mind of a man being naturally in perpetuall motion should at any time lie idle in her bodie it being the proper Organon of the soule peculiarly appointed vnto it by God yea euen vnto the very dissolution thereof Or how should the said soule or minde lie bound like a prisoner in her proper bodie and not execute effectually those selfesame operations and powers which are peculiarly appropriated vnto it for the special seruice of that selfesame bodie Lycanthropus What meane you by the proper operations of the soule or minde Physiologus I vnderstand thereby all those peculiar actions which doe necessarily succeede the powers of the minde as proper effects peculiarly appertaining vnto it Otherwaies this peculiar power of the minde it being a meane betweene the substance and operations of the minde are the only efficient cause of the said mindes operations should be vtterly in vaine and to no purpose at all vnles the peculiar effects of that selfesame power did vndoubtedly and immediatly succeede the same Howbeit these selfesame effects cannot possibly succeed the saide power of the minde so long at the least as the Diuel himselfe really possessing the bodie doth wholy and absolutely take vp the said bodie with the members thereof to accomplish his mischieuous purposes As for example all the operations of the minde are either organical or animal The organical operations they are those seuerall actions which the minde can in no wise accomplish but in the bodie it selfe and by all the seuerall members thereof as by the proper instruments for that purpose peculiarly appointed vnto it Namely the nutritiue augmentatiue and generatiue operations appertaining especially to the vegetatiue life also the facultie of seeing hearing tasting smelling handling and of common sense moreouer the imaginatiue the memoratiue the concupiscible irascible and motiue faculties being all attendant vpon the sensitiue life Now then these and euerie of these are the organical operations of the minde yea and such also as the minde cannot possibly effect but in her owne bodie and by all the partes thereof as by the peculiar instruments appointed of God And therefore how should the possessed mans minde his bodie it selfe being thoroughly surprised and taken vp as you say by the Diuel at any hand accomplish either all or any one of these organical operations Lycanthropus As the minde her selfe cannot but be in perpetuall motion so surely being forcibly restrained from these her organical operations she must for the present be faine to put in execution and to practise as she may her animal operations Physiologus The animal operations they are such speciall actions as the minde of it selfe both can and may effectually accomplish without the bodie namely those three essential powers of the reasonable soule called the vnderstanding affection and will Whereof the two last are fitly termed the intellectiue appetite whereas the organical affections arising only from out of the hart the lyuer and entralles are called the sensitiue appetite But for as much as these animal operations all the while the minde it selfe is seated in her proper bodie are by the order of God appointed to be the directours and moderatours of all the organical operations I aske you by what meanes the mind may accomplish her appointed dutie concerning the direction and moderation of those her organical actions so long as the Diuel himselfe doth really and wholy take vp the said bodie with her seuerall partes to become the vnhappie instruments of his Diuellish attempts Lycanthropus I see no possible helpe but that the minde it selfe must giue place to the Diuel for a time Physiologus Giue place for a time for how long I beseech you Put case this man be really possest of the diuell for seuen yeeres togither or more and that in the meane time he should die before the diuell be dispossest of his bodie which for any thing knowne to the diuell he may very well do for his daies are determined which he cannot possiblie passe Now then the soule it selfe being surprized by death and so seperate from the bodie it selfe before she recouer her pristinate power concerning the saide bodie or any the organicall actions appertaining vnto it to whom must those the disordered actions wrought in the bodie all the whole time of the diuell his reall possession therein be imputed I pray you Whether to the possessed mans minde or to the diuell himselfe that possesseth his bodie And whether of both must yeeld an account vnto God for those seuerall actions of the sinfull bodie Lycanthropus The verie soule it selfe is answerable
which is too too absurd as was told you before Lycanthropus I wonder you are so peremptory in denying this point I hauing not onely the Philosophers as you heard euen now but ecclesiastical fathers both old and new on my side Orthodoxus Your philosophers they shoote faire and farre off as you also haue heard euen now You say you haue fathers both old and new on your side let vs see first whether your old fathers doe come any neerer the marke Lycanthropus First Origen he flatly affirmeth that spirits and diuels are endued with their proper bodies Orthodoxus Origen if that booke be his owne is not to be regarded concerning this question because therein he doth nothing but play the Platonist iumpingfull patte with Psellus in euerie point And therefore he deserueth none other answere then that which was giuen to those other before Let vs heare more authentical fathers or end the discourse Lycanthropus Hilarie he saith there is nothing which in it owne substance and in respect of creation is not corporall And therefore spirits and diuels they hauing their substance and being created are also corporall Orthodoxus Hilarie he saith so indeed but giues no one reason of saying so It is not enough for your selfe to crie out and say Hilarie he speakes it vnlesse Hilarie also doth prooue what he speake which he doth not in the place you alleage He onely propoundeth the matter without any proofe and may easily be answered thus The soule of man it hath her substance and was also created and yet incorporall For or euer it was infused into the bodie and after the dissolution thereof it doth substantially exist and is also immortall accomplishing continually her animall operations Neither needes shee an humane bodie in any respect of her proper essentiall being but onely in regard of her organicall operations as was shewed before And therefore Hilarie he helpes you nothing at all Lycanthropus Tertullian verie plainely affirmeth Angels and spirites to haue their peculiar bodies Orthodoxus Whatsoeuer Tertullian saith there concerning this question the Schoolemen they doe excuse and qualifie his speech on this sort They say that Tertullian by the name of bodie vnderstandeth onely the spirituall substance of Angels and nothing else And this he doth saie they in an onely regard of the simplicitie of that people with whom he delt who helde that nothing coulde possibly exist in nature without a bodie Tertullian therefore in that onely regard did purposely call the substances of spirites and diuels by the name of a bodie Lycanthropus Yea but Tertullian auoucheth further that God himselfe is also a bodie and therefore much more that spirits and diuels they haue their bodies His wordes be these Who will deny God himselfe to be a bodie although God indeed be a spirit Orthodoxus This is so farre from confuting as it rather confirmes that qualification which the Schoolemen doe make Namely that by the worde bodie Tertullian vnderstandeth nothing but the spirituall and simple substance of spirits and diuels Besides that it is one thing to be a bodie and another to haue a bodie Tertullian saith onely that God is a bodie he saith not there that God hath a bodie Lycanthropus Notwithstanding all this he saith elsewhere that spirits and diuels are corporall his reason is because the soules of men are also corporall Orthodoxus Herein his pouerty bewraieth it selfe being constrained as you see to beg his cause wherin also he would proue the same by the same namely corporall spirits by corporal soules Howbeit we haue proued before do here affirm it a fresh that the soules of men they are incorporal and therefore by consequence spirits and diuels they are not corporal but spiritual substances Besides all this Augustine verie flatly affirmeth that the incorporall doe differ fully from corporall substances and denieth withall that whatsoeuer is created the same is a bodie yea he sharpely reprehendeth and derideth Tertullian for auouching the soules of men to be corporall And in the end he thinks it too too absurd to hold that a reasonable soule should be a bodie in any respect because the same is onely and altogether incorporall And thus you may plainely perceiue by Augustine how vnfitly Tertullian doth fit your turne Exorcistes But Augustine himselfe elsewhere verie flatly affirmeth that all reasonable creatures are corporall substances yea and that euen the intellectuall creatures namely Angels spirits and diuels are euerie of them also corporall powers howsoeuer they subsist not of flesh and bloud Orthodoxus How Augustine agreeth with Augustine your selfe may plainely perceiue and therein also may wisely consider what credit consists in such varietie But that your Augustine may also receiue his answere let vs heare his argument whereby he would prooue spirits and diuels to be corporall substances Lycanthropus He reasoneth thus We doe therefore affirme the intellectuall powers to be corporall substances onely because they are circumscribed with place euen as humane soules are also inclosed with bodies Orthodoxus This is his argument Whatsoeuer is circumscribed with place that same is corporall but spirits and diuels they are circumscribed with place therefore spirits and diuels they are corporall I answere the proposition is faultie and halteth downe right For the localitie of spirits and diuels doth not simply depend vpon a bodie which after it owne manner I meane circumscriptiuely and sensibly is no doubt in a place but it ariseth properly from the finitouesse and dimensiuenesse of the angelicall nature it selfe Which said angelicall nature being created of God is therefore but finite and circumscribed also with those her owne termes which are competent and proper vnto her And therefore the intellectuall powers they are in a place because they be finite substances although yet they are in a place but definitiuely or determinately So then spirites and diuels you see they are vndoubtedly in a place because they be locall but they are therefore said to be local not because they be corporall as Augustine imagineth but for that being finite they haue their muchnesse or quantity after a sort I meane no predicamental but an intelligible quantity And therefore Augustine he speaketh soundly you see against Tertullian but proueth your purpose nothing at al. Exorcistes But the author of the Ecclesiasticall opinions writeth plainely that we must beleeue nothing to be incorporall or inuisible but onely God Who alone is truely said to be incorporall because he is euery where present replenishing al things and therefore also inuisible to euery creature because he is incorporall His first argument is framed thus Whatsoeuer is incorporall that same is euery where because vbiquity is the cause of incorporality But spirits and diuels they are not euery where therefore spirits and diuels they are not incorporal Orthodoxus The proposition with his prosyllogisme halteth downe right the same being a deceaueable Elench making that the cause which is not properly the
some few but euen in Adam himselfe and al his posteritie or els you must grant that that possession which the diuel hath in anie it is onlie an actual possession Howsoeuer the latter be true the first you may neuer acknowledge for shame Because if the Lord created the members of our bodies for these two onelie respects namelie that they should be for euer the liuelie organons of our owne proper soules and the expresse images of him their Lord creator it is vnlikely that satan should euer haue power through the permission of God to frustrate those former effects by assuming our bodies essentiallie vnto himselfe and by applying them so forcibly to his slauish seruice in an vnuoluntarie action whether they will themselues or not Lycanthropus Why may not the Diuel for a time essentially vsurpe the possessed mans bodie to accomplish therin his Diuelish actions Physiologus The question is not what the Diuel may doe but whether he doth so essentially vsurpe vpon the possessed mans bodie as your selfe doth absurdly imagine For if an humane soule be only made capable of an humane bodie then also an humane bodie it is only made capable of an humane soule But the first in all reason is vndoubtedly true and therefore also the latter and so by consequence there can be no essential possession of spirits and Diuels Lycanthropus Why sir the scripture saith that the strong armed man possesseth his house in peace Physiologus That must only be vnderstood of an actual and of no essential possession at all I prooue it thus Satan so possesseth as Christ inuadeth his house But Christ inuadeth only effectiuely and not essentially therefore Satan he possesseth only effectiuely and not essentially Besides that if Satan essentially and inherently dwelleth in the possessed mans bodie what then for the present becomes of the soule and who must become accomptable to God for those corporall actions which are wrought in the possessed mans bodie as was shewed you before the man or the Diuel If the man how can it stand with the iustice of God to punish those things in a man whereunto he was violently enforced and drawen against his owne will If the Diuel then should something be effected in the possessed mans bodie which nothing concerneth himselfe Briefly you cannot possibly propound to your selfe any one necessarie vse or end for such an essentiall entring of Diuels into the bodies of men Lycanthropus Oh yes sir it is needfull for this special end namely that they might thereby the more fitly afflict and torment such persons as the Lord in iudgement hath committed vnto them Physiologus All this may as fitly as fully and as effectually be effected by an only actual possession as shall be shewed hereafter in the meane time you shall neuer be able to prooue your imagined real possession of Diuels while you haue any breath For if Spirites and Diuels be in deed and in truth in the possessed mans bodie then are they so either as the part in the whole or as the whole in the part or as the special in the general or as the general in the special or as the accident in the subiect and forme in the matter or as the efficient in the effect or as the intention in the end or as the thing placed in the place at the least But he is not in the possessed mans bodie according to any of these respects therefore not essentially or personally in the possessed mans bodie at all Lycanthropus Though not according to any the former respects yet are they in the possessed mans bodie as we say autoprosopos I meane euen personally not putting any other qualitie in the bodie which it had not before but only mouing and stirring the said bodie with the seueral partes to such extraordinarie operations as by the prouident disposing of God are permitted them to accomplish thereby Physiologus He is in the possessed mans bodie you say only as a mouer and stirrer vp of the same to some extraordinarie operations this is too too absurd For then he must be in that bodie either as one hypostatically ioined with that man in his essence which hypostatical vnion is only proper to Christ or els formaliter as the Schoolemen doe call it to giue an essential forme to those the entended operations and so there should be in the selfe-same subiect two essential formes at once which is too too absurd For Diuels being incorporal spirites are also inuisible impalpable insensible yea such spirituall creatures as cannot possibly be discerned by corporall sence such a substance I meane as can neither be seene nor felt nor handled nor possiblie perceiued by corporall or sensible meanes And therefore how should your selfe be able to iudge or the possessed man certeinlie know when the diuel is really and substantially inherent within his bodie as a moouer to such operations Lycanthropus The same is verie apparantly perceiued by the diuell his violent rending and tearing and such other vnnaturall and preposterous actions Physiologus This perceiuance or knowledge is giuen neither to you nor the possessed himselfe by any meanes of the diuell his essentiall being within him but by reason of his effectuall working in the possessed mans bodie By which said effectual working that selfesame rending and tearing with other like vnnaturall and preposterous actions may effectually be wrought in the man though the diuell doth neuer essentially enter into the possessed mans bodie or any part thereof Euen as also the efficacie and heate of the sunne may effectually be perceiued and felt both outwardly and inwardly and yet the verie substance of the sunne it selfe neuer essentially inherent in anie mans bodie And thus at vnawares you do fully ouerthrowe you idle supposall of an essentiall and reall possession concluding withall that the diuell hath onely an actuall or powerfull possession whereof also hereafter we will conferre to the full Lycanthropus Staie heere a while I beseech you me thinke you are somwhat ouerswift in gathering vpon me For albeit I do freely confesse that spirits and diuels are spirituall substances and therefore not sensiblie perceiued or felt of vs by any corporall or sensible meanes yet doe I not hold them for such absolute and simple substances but that they haue also their proper bodies peculiarlie appropriate to them though of another nature and farre different also from ours And therefore the diuels entring into the possessed mans bodie with those their owne bodies they may by meanes of their said bodies so violently worke in the possessed maus bodie as that their essentiall being therein may easily be discerned of others and verie sensiblie also perceiued of the possessed himselfe Physiologus A man had need to be swift in gathering when he lighteth vpon one so lauish in laying abroad For besides your conclusion heere against your owne cause you do flatly discent a fresh from that we concluded before in our first conference concerning the
spirits and diuels Thus you reason The Lord sent his euil Angels among the Egyptians therefore spirits and diuels they assume to themselues what bodies they please This consequent hath in it no sequel at al and it is quite contrary to the words of the text For Dauid saith not that the Lord sent his euil Angels essentially into them but among them I meane the Egyptians which proueth nothing for Satan his assuming of bodies Exorcistes But yet we haue a notable example concerning this point from the diuel his tempting of Euah in the serpent Orthodoxus Wel go to frame your argument Exorcistes I frame it thus Satan he did put vpon him the body of the serpent and spake very sensibly in that selfesame serpent therefore spirits and diuels they can and are able to do the like with any body els whatsoeuer Philologus Maister Orthodoxus this argument I beleeue will set you hard Orthodoxus Not so hard as you thinke by then the ambiguous termes are opened more plainely And therefore doe tell me here what you meane by satan his putting the serpents body vpon him Exorcistes I meane this namely that he did really and essentially enter into the very essence and substance of the serpent it selfe Orthodoxus Then it must folow by necessary consequence that the diuel himselfe did essentially become the serpent in deed or the serpent essentially the diuel at least during the whole time of that action Lycanthropus Yea what else Orthodoxus Do you aske me what else I aske you for answere whether your hart be so deeply bewitched with blindnesse as you cannot perceiue the absurdity hereof it beeing so apparantly euident to all the world For is it possible thinke you that the diuel should be able vtterly to annihilate the essētiall being either of himselfe or of any other creature vnder the heauens Or is it likely that satan can cause himsele to be a diuel or no diuel and the serpent to be a serpent or no serpent when and so oft as it pleaseth himselfe If this were certeinely so what one creature in al the world could any long time continue in that proper estate wherein it was first created of God For the diuel hath wil and malice enough to do mischiefe if he had but that absolute power to accomplish the same Moreouer from satan his assuming of the serpents body alone you doe plainely conclude an absolute power in diuels ouer all other bodies else whatsoeuer and so from one perticular example you do cunningly gather a generall conclusion thus Satan he did essentially assume the body of the serpent therefore spirits and diuels can essentially assume what bodies they please This argument is vtterly vntrue in euery part For first whereas I plainely deny that the diuel can so essentially assume a body the which thing you should proue your selfe by a pitifull begging of the cause in question do take it as graunted and thereupon would proue the same by the same attributing also to the diuel such an absolute power therein as is vtterly impertinent to any creature and thereby also you doe highly derogate from the diuinity and power of God Secondly your argument also is faulty in that it concludeth more largely then was put downe in the premisses namely from one particular practize of satan it concludes an absolute power as was said ouer al bodies whatsoeuer which is a deceiueable kind of reasoning For albeit we should grant which will neuer be proued that satan had for that once some speciall preuiledge granted from God and did thereby also essentially enter into the very essence of the serpent as your selfe suppose yet doth it not folow that therefore spirits and diuels they can also essentially assume to themselues what bodies they please Howbeit to the end we may the more directly and plainely proceed doe tell me whether it was the diuel alone or the serpent alone or the diuel and serpent together that gaue the onset vpon Euah in that temptation Philologus It could not be the diuell alone for he is not named at all in the action Orthodoxus If he be not named at all in the action how comes he then to be charged for the principall author in that selfesame action Exorcistes In other places of scripture his malice that way is mightily tainted and himselfe accused for a murderer from the beginning although in the historie of Euahs tentation he be not precisely named any author at all Orthodoxus Yea but how can those places of Scripture in anie sounde reason impose the blame of the action vpon satan himselfe if neither absolutely nor properly nor historically nor Allegorically nor metaphorically nor any waies else he be specially named in that very historie of Euahs tentation wherein the action it selfe with the seuerall circumstances is fully and plainely expressed Exorcistes Moses you know doth not set downe the story of the Bible at large but onely compiles the same in a summary abridgement Orthodoxus But that action especially being so waighty a matter was necessary to be knowen in euery point and therefore it is not to be doubted but that the history concerning the same is so exactly set forth with euery circumstance as that any man may be able to iudge of the principall actors therein at the least So then although the diuel in that history be neither absolutely nor historically nor properly expressed by name yet must we acknowledge him to be therein allegorically and metaphorically set forth at the least or otherwaies impose no blame vpon him at al concerning the action Lycanthropus Yes euen by that selfesame story he is allegorically or metaphorically set forth in the serpent Orthodoxus Then was it no natural serpent but the diuel himselfe metaphorically set forth by the name of a serpent who gaue the onset vpon Euah in that tentation For by allegories and metaphors there is euermore some other thing ment then that which is literally expressed Lycanthropus But yet for all that the serpent is said to haue tempted Euah Orthodoxus That is the diuel alone metaphorically set forth as you say by the name of a serpent was he that tempted our grandmother Euah I proue it thus If in that action the diuel himselfe be not historically and properly but allegorically and metaphorically called a serpent because he is most crafty and subtile then vndoubtedly the obiection of a serpent is very inconuenient but the antecedent is true and therefore also the consequent Exorcistes Proue your antecedent Orthodoxus I wil. First besides that which you grant your selfe it is an accustomed thing in the sacred scriptures to vse the names of other creatures in setting forth to our sense the intellectual creatures themselues Hereupon it is that in the Apocalypse the diuel by a perpetual allegory is called a dragon or serpent and therefore in this history of Euahs tentation by the like perpetuall allegory he is also called a serpent Secondly Moses in that action doth purposely
by other words in the text which affirme that the Egyptian Sorcerers they did in like maner by their enchantments Where you may plainely perceiue the particle of likenes purposely put down to set foorth the difference as if he should say the Sorcerers they did the very like in shewe although not in substance For marke I beseech you there is in that text both the maner and meanes of their working precisely put downe The manner of their working was by a likenes of serpents in an onelie appearance the meanes of effecting that worke was the Sorcerers inchantments From which words of the text I may reason thus A like cause argueth a like effect But the Sorcerers inchantments which are altogither deceiueable false and standing onely in outward appearance were the very efficient cause of that likenes therefore the effect I meane that likenes it selfe must needs be deceiueable false and onely exist in an outward appearance Thus then the case it selfe being by all the premisses apparantly euident I will now returne at the last to answere your maine or principall argument which was this in effect Satan by the Egyptian Sorcerers transformed rods into serpents therefore he is much more able to doe the same by himselfe This I must tell you is a false and deceiueable argument For first in your antecedent you do shamefullie begge the cause in question before it be prooued and now when it comes to the triall it is not able to holde the hammering Againe your consequent also is false for therein you do make the diuell a verie free and absolute agent in transforming of bodies as well without as with meanes at his pleasure which onely is a power peculiar to God whereas the diuels can accomplish nothing in nature but by naturall causes and meanes no more then the Carpenter can frame an house without fit matter and instruments to worke withall So then both parts of your argument being apparantly false you cannot possiblie conclude from thence any power in the diuell for an essentiall transforming of bodies Lycanthropus Well sir Howsoeuer you passe ouer this argument taken from the sorcerers rods transformed to serpents and all this forsooth by a pretie distinstion of a thing in existence and of a thing in appearance yet haue I one argument more which you shall neuer be able to auoide with that cunning deuise Physiologus Let vs heare that irrefragable argument for hitherto you haue afoorded vs none that needes any great cunning in answering Lycanthropus Nebuchad-nezzar it is very well knowen was essentially transformed into an oxe therfore the diuel may easily change himselfe into any shape whatsoeuer Physiologus Or euer I come to answere directly your argument doe tell me how it is certainly knowen that Nebuchad-nezzer was essentially transformed into an oxe Lycanthropus Iosephus writing of the Iewish antiquities he flatly affirmes it so Physiologus Iosephus doth so I confesse Howbeit Iosephus he hath beene so often discredited and tainted in other points of more waightie importance as the lesse credit is to be giuen him in this especially the very words of the text being otherwaies euident and testifying plainly vnto vs that Nebuchad-nezzer he was not essentially transformed at all either in minde or in bodie Lycanthropus Neuer goe about to make vs thinke so for the very text it telleth vs plainly he did eate grasse like an oxe Physiologus It doth so in deede and what of that will you hereupon inferre that therefore he was essentially transformed into an oxe That were a mad kinde of inference So conies and geese they doe eate grasse like an oxe and yet notwithstanding they still retaine their proper essential being without any essential transformings into either oxen or asses Besides that if you will wilfully insist vpon any essentiall transformation in Nebuchad-nezzer you might with more shew of sense and better probabilitie of reason auouch that he was transformed rather into an eagle both bicause the haires of his head saith the text were growen like to an eagles feathers and for that also the very nailes of his hands and feete they were like to the clawes of a bird And therefore it would be more consonant you see to conclude that Nebuchad-nezzer was rather transformed into some fowle hauing feathers and clawes then into a beast that hath hornes and hoofes Howbeit there was in him no corporal transformation at all but only a changed minde for so saith the text Let his hart be changed from mans nature and a beastes hart be giuen vnto him Lycanthropus If you yeeld vnto him a changed hart I make no doubt at all of an altered bodie For if the minde it selfe which is the first substantial forme in man be transformed as you say to an oxe what other forme or being at all can be giuen to the bodie it being the organical partes of the minde but only the forme of an oxe Physiologus What meane you by Nebuchad-nezzer his hart transformed Lycanthropus I meane thereby that his very hart it selfe was essentially changed into the very hart of a beast for so saith the text Physiologus The text vnderstandeth there no reall transmutation or transformation of substance but only an alteration or change of qualities For there is no doubt at all but that in Nebuchad-nezzer there still remained a reasonable hart howsoeuer by the iust iudgement of God for his pride he was for the determined time euen vtterly depriued of all vse of reason Hauing his said hart for the present so plunged in beastly corruptions and so wholy ouerwhelmed with brutish affections as that thereby he differed nothing at all from a beast being more blockish and senselesse in humane knowledge then the very oxe that feedeth on grasse So that how honorable soeuer before in princely dignitie yet hauing now in him no vnderstanding at all he is not vnlike to the beastes that perish Lycanthropus If there were in his hart no substantiall change at all how could there possibly be wrought in the same such altered or changed qualities Physiologus There is nothing you knowe impossible to God By whose eternal decree the hart of Nebuchad-nezzer was so thoroughly ouertaken and tainted with such an outragious furie or madnes as that he being vtterly depriued of humane sense did presently depart the Court very wildly wandring ouer the wildernes like to a beast conuersing in brutish manner among the brute beastes themselues and leading for the time a very sauage and beastly behauiour Exorcistes If Nebuchad-nezzer was not essentially transformed at all in bodie or minde but possessed only with furie and madnes it is vnlikely his Courtiers would suffer him then to conuerse with beasts abroad in the fields but would rather haue bound him and kept him vp close in the darke and therefore for any thing hitherto heard he might be essentially transformed into a beast Physiologus That he was not essentially transformed at all it is very
catholike faith doe iointly auouch that spirits and diuels are of an Angelical nature and that howsoeuer by malice corrupted their naturall faculties doe still remaine absolute in them we may consequently conclude that therefore no sensible matter or corporall vertue is able of it selfe directly or indirectly to effect in them any such action they beeing properly of a spirituall substance So that the diuels themselues they cannot by any such created or corporall meanes be compelled to any thing much lesse may they be violently expelled from their actuall possessions in men Although yet I dare not deny but that by a diuine and supernaturall power whether immediate or mediate they may be dispossessed or driuen from their hold Exorcistes But the very text it selfe doth plainely auouch that when Dauid did play on his harpe the euill spirit of the Lord departed from Saul Physiologus My answere is this It is generally doubted and our selues do flatly deny that Saul was euer essentially possest with either spirit or diuel Howbeit because you labour with tooth and naile to prooue the dispossessing of Demoniakes by an onely created or meere naturall meanes and thereupon also would threape vpon vs a supposed essentiall possession in Saul go to let it for arguments sake be granted which will neuer be prooued that Saul in deed was so possest as your selfe do happely imagine what then infer you thereof Exorcistes I infer from thence his vndoubted dispossession and that also by the onely bare meanes of a melodious instrument For Dauid but plaid with his harpe and the euil spirit of the Lord departed from Saul Physiologus Howsoeuer your selfe may conceiue of the matter it is doubted of some whether the euil spirit did euer depart from Saul neither is any man bound to beleeue the same as a certeine truth For this is vndoubtedly true that a man may be alwaies actually possessed and yet not alwaies apprehend the violent or actuall outrage of satan Besides that if Saul had been dispossessed in deed yet that selfesame dispossession was effected neither by the inherent holinesse of Dauid himselfe nor by any supposed helpe of his harpe For a meere created nature it hath of it selfe no possible power to expel the possession of spirits or diuels as was shewed before no that is onely an extraordinary and supernaturall work of the Lord. Exorcistes Yea but the text it telleth vs plainely that when Dauid once handled his harpe the euil spirit of the Lord departed from Saul Physiologus That is the euill spirit he shewed not his outragious force as before in Saul Vnderstanding thereby that the torments of Saul through the melodious sound of Dauids harpe they might for the time be something abated though the euill spirit it selfe if any such there was not vtterly expelled from Saul himselfe and thus much also affirmeth the text Namely that when Dauid did handle his harpe king Saul was refreshed or eased Yea and the seruants also of Saul they accordingly aduised him a little before to procure to himselfe some excellent harper that when the euill spirit should vexe him the said harper might play with his harpe And wherefore I pray you to expell the diuell nay but to ease the king for the present Exorcistes How should the king be eased at all and the spirit not expelled out of his bodie Physiologus Verie well I assure you For this we may boldly auouch namely that by meanes of a melodious sound or some other like sensible matter such as are actually afflicted of Satan they may haue their afflictions for some season abated notwithstanding the actuall possession of Satan it selfe be not vtterly expelled and this also in a double respect First because the action of all actiues are euermore actuall in a predisposed patient in such a subiect I meane as is proportionably appliable and fitted before to the orderly apprehension of those selfesame intended actions For spirits or diuels they cannot essentially alter any one qualitie in a corporal matter when and so oft as it pleaseth themselues they onely may effect some such kinde of thing by meanes of some corporall actiues And for that selfe-same consideration when they would afflict any man with their actuall torments they doe eftsoones respect the naturall disposition of some corporal matter whereupon they may worke their intended effects Knowing this by experience that in euerie such matter as naturally hath in it the selfesame naturall qualities a transmutation of qualities may more easily be effected by much And hereof also it is that certaine Lunatike persons are eftsoones verie strangely and diuersly afflicted at some one time more then another according to the variable disposition of the Moone it selfe as was shewed before Because the Moone being predominant ouer all moist bodies and the braine also of man it being naturally more moist then any part else the said braine is therefore more apt at one time to receiue the actions of Satan then it is at another according to the variable dispositions of the Moone it selfe being then more effectuall in them â—uen as also we see by dayly experience that all shel-fish in the seas they are at the increase of the Moone verie full and eftsoones againe by the onely decrease thereof they become verie emptie So surely the diuell he obserueth those selfesame seasons wherein the bodies of men being weake are more subiect to sicknesses and abuseth those times to his pestilent purposes And therefore euen as by the onely obseruation of meere naturall causes the diuell he may aggrauate his actuall torments in men so surely on the other side by the onely bare meanes of a melodious harmonie or some other such sensible matter there may be procured in the bodies of men such an apt disposition as is lesse subiect by much to those the operations of Satan And so by consequence those sefesame afflictions or torments which were actually inflicted vpon them by Satan they may verie well be abated or lessened notwithstanding the diuell his actuall possession be not vtterly expelled Lycanthropus In what respect else may their said torments be abated Physiologus Secondly this said mitigation of satan his actuall torments inflicted on men it may very easily be effected also if we but consider aright as we ought that to the actuall afflicting of any there is required in the patient an apt apprehension of the intended affliction For euen as delectation or pleasure is none other thing els but the coniunction of some conuenient actiue to some conuenient passiue with an apt apprehension of the present delight in so much as where there is no such apprehension there is no delectation so surely in affliction or heauinesse which is the coniunction of some conuenient actiue to some conuenient passiue there must needs be an apt apprehension of the obiected affliction otherwise where such apprehension is wanting there the affliction is
appointed praier and fasting an onely effectuall meanes for the powerfull expelling of diuels he notwithstanding all this doth make a speciall choice of persons of places and times for the more orderly effecting of euerie such admirable enterprise Orthodoxus Your answeres without doubt are suddenly fallen to such deadly debate among themselues as the one is readie to pull out the throate of the other by reason of some bad disposition or present defect in your memorie For praier fasting ere while was the only appointed meanes to expel the power of the diuel and now the efficacie thereof is restrained to places times It was not long since a publike ordinance appointed generallie for all men and now it is imposed vpon some speciall persons Not long since it might well be effected by the partie himselfe and his parents but now the powerfull dispatch thereof is peculiar onely to preachers and pastours Not long since it was an ordinarie power incident to any godly Minister or others but no Minister now how godlie soeuer hath the good hap to hit on that matter saue onely your selfe Thus then you see that as the disease so also the cure it doth ebbe and flowe with the Moone Howbeit these doubtfull vncerteinties doe sauour verie shrewdly of some legerdemaine at the least And howsoeuer your selfe auouching that God maketh speciall choise of persons of places and times woulde cunningly shelter your cause vnder Augustines credite verie certeine I am that the same is onely a Iesuiticall iuggling deuise and therefore it deserueth the selfesame answere with theirs For be it that the Lord as Augustine saith doth make a speciall choice of persons of places and times for the orderly effecting of euery such admirable action this prooueth not that the power of working myracles continueth still to this present Onely it sheweth that whensoeuer the Lord worketh any woonderfull worke he is free to make choise of persons of places and times as seemeth best to his wisedome And therefore admitting all this for a truth do tell me withall by what meanes you are certeine that the Lord made speciall choise of your selfe for such speciall busines Exorcistes Why sir the verie effect it selfe doth fully declare the truth of the matter for I cast foorth the diuell Orthodoxus Be it that some such effect as your selfe surmizeth did forthwith succeed your saide enterprize yet forsomuch as your selfe did no more in the matter then was ordinarily incident you say to any godly preacher or others how comes it to passe that those other performing the very selfesame things you performed your selfe no such admirable effect should follow their labors Was it for that the rest of the Ministers were all but vngodly wretches in comparison of you Or was it so rather for that those Ministers fearing the Lord aright the Lord would not suffer their innocent soules to be falsly seduced by any such sleights or for that you your selfe being at that time more destitude of grace had for the present some power to effect such a false deceiueable signe to your greater condemnation without speedie repentance Exorcistes Howsoeuer I may not impure a lesse measure of godlinesse to others neither yet arrogate any more to my selfe then to any of the rest verie certeine it is that onely my selfe had then the speciall power to expell the diuell Physiologus Master Orthodoxus let me argue this point Come on Exorcistes If your owne selfe as you say had then a more speciall power to expell the diuell by prayer and fasting then any of the rest that your said power it must needs be a vocall or personall power at the least My meaning is that such a speciall power it proceeded either from your prayer or your person but not from your prayer at all for the others also they prayed and fasted as deuoutly as you did your selfe albeit in vaine and therefore your prayer of it selfe it could haue no more power then theirs vnlesse hapily you haue some speciall prayer for that speciall purpose beyond the rest of your brethren Yea and when all comes to all it was not your prayer but your preaching it should seeme that expelled the diuell Againe if such a speciall power proceeded from your person alone then surely that selfe same personall power it was either some naturall or supernaturall power at the least Howbeit a meere naturall power it might not possibly be because no created or meere naturall power may possibly extend foorth it selfe to any such supernaturall action as hath been sufficiently shewed before Exorcistes That followeth not For the body of Christ it was vndoubtedly a created or true naturall body and yet notwithstanding there went vertue or power from out of the same for the admirable curing of people And therefore if it so seemed good to the Lord for the glory of his name why might not some power in like manner proceed from my person for the timely expelling of that spirit or diuel Physiologus Besides your shamelesse pride in matching your body with the body of Christ you do monstrously mistake the very point of your purpose For do you imagine that there went any power essentially from out of the body of Christ for the admirable curing of any Exorcistes I make no question thereof And the scripture it telleth vs plainly that the whole multitude thronged to touch him for there proceeded vertue out of him and healed them all Physiologus Though it be said in the text that vertue proceeded out of Christ to the curing of many yet that must not be vnderstood as though any vertue essentially existing in the naturall body of Christ did passe foorth essentially from him vnto others in that selfesame absolute number no but this proceeding of vertue from the bodie of Christ vnto others is so farre foorth to be accounted a going foorth as the effect may be said to proceed from the cause Or it is to be interpreted according to the maner of a cause producing an effect The which are said to go foorth the one from the other in as much as the verie cause it selfe doth apparantly shine foorth in that selfesame effect which it worketh And euen after such a manner we must vnderstand this matter in question Because the Diuine vertue it selfe essentially existing in the person of Christ did effectually procure present health to the parties oppressed Otherwaies how must that text be vnderstood which telleth vs that the wisedome of God being but one the same can do all things it selfe that it renueth all and entreth eueh into the holie soules making them the friends and prophets of God Now sir because it is said he entreth into the holie soules must we therefore imagine the holie spiriâ— of God to be any where now where it was not before not so for the same of necessitie at all times and seasons is euerie where present Howbeit because the holie spirit of God doth then