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A57666 The new planet no planet, or, The earth no wandring star, except in the wandring heads of Galileans here out of the principles of divinity, philosophy, astronomy, reason, and sense, the earth's immobility is asserted : the true sense of Scripture in this point, cleared : the fathers and philosophers vindicated : divers theologicall and philosophicall points handled, and Copernicus his opinion, as erroneous, ridiculous, and impious, fully refuted / by Alexander Rosse ; in answer to a discourse, that the earth may be a planet. Ross, Alexander, 1591-1654. 1646 (1646) Wing R1970; ESTC R3474 118,883 127

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not novv spend time in vievving the parts and materials of your Poeticall castle till you have brought it to perfection and then I vvill take a survey of every particular 4. I had said that a bigger body as a mill-stone vvill naturally descent svvifter then a lesse as a pebble stone the cause of this You will not have to be ascribed to the bodies bignesse but to the strength of naturall desire which that big body hath to such a motion Answ. You make a shevv as if you did ansvver our argument but in effect you ansvver nothing for if I should aske you vvhy a mill-stone falls faster then a pebble you will answer because it hath a stronger desire to fall but if I aske againe why it hath a stronger desire you answer because the bigger a thing is the stronger is its desire c. and is not your opinion now all one with mine in effect that it is the bignesse that is the cause of this swiftnesse now the same reason is appliable to bodies moving circularly for though they were in their proper scituations yet there is in them as great a desire to move about the center as there is in elementary bodies to move to and from the center therefore the greater the body is the greater desire it hath to move according to your opinion Againe I said that the winde will sooner move a great ship then a little stone you answer This is not because a ship is more easily moveable then a little stone but because a little stone is not so liable to the violence from whence its motion proceeds This answer is as wise as the former for why is not the stone as liable to the violent cause of its motion as the ship but because it is not so big therefore the ship is more easily moveable then the stone because by reason of its bignesse it 's more liable to the violent cause of its motion And when you say That I cannot throw a ship as farre as a stone I grant it but this will onely argue want of strength in me but not want of aptitude for a swifter motion in the ship then in the stone if I had strength to sling the one as well as the other A bigger bullet out of the same peece will flie farther and swifter then a lesser 5. I brought some instances to illustrate the possibility of the heavens swiftnesse as the sound of a cannon twenty miles off of the sight of a starre in a moment of the light passing suddenly from East to West of the swiftnesse of a bullet carried by the powder to these you answer That the passage of a sound is but slow compared to the heavens motion that the species of sound or sight are accidents and so is the light that the disproportion is great betwixt the heavens motion and the swiftnesse of a bullet Answ. Let the sound and light and species be what they will be they are moved and if they be accidents they cannot be moved alone but with the subject in which they are inherent therefore if there be such swiftnesse in the motion of these what need we doubt of the swiftnesse of the heavens and if accidents can be so swiftly moved with and in their subjects much swifter must be these heavenly substances having no resistance whose matter is so pure that it is a great furtherance to their motion and though there be great disproportion betwixt the bullets motion and the heavens swiftnesse yet the motion of the one serves to illustrate the swiftnesse of the other And yet I take not upon me as you doe peremptorily to tell how swift the heavens are and though I said that the light was an accident yet I said also that it was corpori simillimum that it comes very neere to the nature of a body neither did Aristotle prove the light to be no body because of its swiftnesse as if no body were capable of that swiftnesse for then he should contradict himselfe as you use to doe but he meanes that no sublunarie body had so swift a motion It had been folly to illustrate the swiftnesse of the bullets motion by the motion of the hand in the watch for there by many other motions far swifter then this to expresse the bullets motion but of sublunary motions there be none swifter then those I alledged to illustrate the motion of heaven 6. You would have the earth to be both the efficient and finall cause of its motion But indeed it is neither the one nor the other for if it move at all it must be moved by another mover then it selfe and God made the heavens not for the earth but for man so the diurnall and annuall motions have man for their finall cause and heavenly movers for their efficient 2. You say That nature is never tedious in that which may be done an easier way This I will not grant you for nature doth not still worke the easiest but the most convenient way but I deny that the earths motion is either more easie or more convenient then that of heaven for a light body such as heaven is is more easily moved then a heavy and it is more convenient that the foundation of our houses should remain firme and stable then moveable as I said I could tell you how laborious and tedious nature is in the perfecting of mans body and of many other things therefore she doth not take still the most compendious way 3. You say It is not likely that the heaven should undergoe so great and constant a worke which might be saved by the circumvolution of the earths body How tender hearted are you are you afraid that the heavens will grow wearie and I pray you is not heaven sitter to undergoe a great and constant worke then the earth so small so dull so heavy so subject to change a great worke is fit for a great body and a constant work fit for that body that knoweth no unconstancy 4. You are deceived when you say That the heaven receiveth no perfection by its motion but is made serviceable to this little ball of earth The perfection of heaven consisteth in its motion as the earths perfection in its rest neither was heaven made to serve this ball but to serve him who was made Lord of this ball 5. Your Similies of a mother warming her childe of a Cooke rosting his meat of a man on a tower of a Watch maker are all frivolous For a mother turneth her childe and a Cook his meat to the fire because the fire cannot turne it selfe to them the motion is in them not in the fire so he that is on a tower turnes himselfe round to see the countrey because the countrey cannot turne it selfe about him If you had proved to us that the heaven cannot move but that it is the earth that moveth then we should yeeld that the earth did foolishly to expect the celestiall fire to turne about her but
at all of any sphear but it is within the sphears therefore the Earth not the Moon is fittest to be the center Thus you have made mee say more now then I did before You had no reason then to put so much vinegar in your ink but you are a namelesse Moon-man wrapt in a cloud Cernere ne quis te ne quis contingere possit But be not so high conceited of your selfe though your habitation be in the Moon yet learn humility Tecum habita noris quàm sit tibi curta supellex As for the other Objections which you say are not worth the eiting are indeed such as you know not how to answer them therefore you slight them as the Fox did the grapes which he could not reach CHAP. VII 1. The Starres have not their fight because the Sun is in the center nor hath the Sun lesse light being out of it 2. Why the Earth is in the center 3. The Sun is not the center because the Planets move about him 4. The center is not the most excellent place neither are the best things next it or in it 5. There is an harmony amongst the Starres though the Sun be not in the center IN this Proposition you say That the Sun may be the center and you tell us of deformities wheeles and screws as if Nature in framing of the world had been put to such hard shifts by Ptolomie's and Tycho's Hypothesis But indeed the wheeles and screwes you speak of are the whirle-gigs of your own head and I hope your Creed is that not Nature but the God of Nature framed the world but let us consider the weight of your arguments by which you would prove Copernicus his Assertion 1. You say That the light which is diffused in the starres is contracted in the center which can onely be by placing the Sun there so then it seemes by you that if the Sun were not in the center the light of the starres could not be so eminently contained and contracted in the Sun either you must mean that the starres could not receive so much light as they doe from the Sun or else that the Sun could not have in himselfe so much light as hee hath if hee were not in the center But both these are frivolous whimsies for neither hath any starre its light because the Sun is in the center as you would have nor would the Sun lose any of his light if he were out of the center no more then a candle can lose its light though it be not placed in the midst of the roome Now whether the light of the starres be all one with that of the Sun or any parcell of it is not yet fully resolved In your next Edition tell us more plainly what you meane by the light in the starres contracted in the center and wee will give you a more satisfactory answer 2. Because Clavius and others say That the Sun was placed in the midst of the Planets that hee might the more conveniently distribute his beat and light amongst them the force of this reason you say may more properly prove him to be in the center I answer that it will rather prove the Earth to be in the center thus The Sun is in the midst of the Planets that they may the more participate of his light so is the Earth placed in the midst and center of the world that the Sun might the more conveniently distribute his light and heat to it for the Sun was made chiefly for the Earth's sake and the inhabitants thereof neither doe the stars so much need his light and heat as we without which we can neither live nor procreate and as it is questionable whether the stars receive their light from the Sun though the Moon doth so is it much to be doubted that they receive no heat from the Sun seeing Saturne is cold and the Suns heat comes by reflexion which cannot be in the starres 3. You say That the Planets move about the center of the world and that I grant you but Saturne Jupiter Mars Venus Mercury move about the body of the Sun ergo the Sun is in the midst of the world Answ. If you had been better acquainted with the master of Syllogismes you had not framed such a lame Syllogisme as this for thus it runnes in briefer tearmes some Planets move about the center of the world some Planets move about the Sun ergo the Sun is the center of the world Besides that it consists all of particulars the conclusion is falsly inferred against the lawes of the third figure for it should be formed in the first figure thus What moves about the Sun moves about the center of the world the Planets move about the Sun ergo they move about the center of the world and all this I grant you that the Planets move about the earth which is the center now then I hope you will not say that the Sun is the center of the world because the Planets move about him no more then Iericho was the center of Canaan because the Priests went about it 4. When you tell us that the revolution of Venus and Mercury is about the Sun because they are never at any great distance from him you alledge a cause fit to be laughed at for is the vicinity of one starre to another the cause of its revolution about that starre because the mill-wheele is not farre distant from the miller doth it therefore goe about the miller 5. The reason which you alledge from Pythagoras is also weak for though the sunne in respect of his light were the most excellent body and the center the most excellent place yet it will not follow that he is there for we see that the most excellent creatures are not placed still next the center or in it but farthest from it as man is placed in the superficies or circumference of the earth and not in the center of it the heart is not in the midst of the body if the middle or center were alwayes the sittest place for a luminous body God would have commanded Moses to set the candlesticke with the lamps in the midst of the tabernacle and not in the side of it our eyes had beene placed in our navels not in our heads And albeit Plato say that the soule of the world resides in the innermost place of it yet I hope you doe not by this understand the sunne and you did well to alledge Macrobius against your selfe in comparing the sunne in the world to the heart in a living creature for as the heart is not in the center of the body neither is the sun in the center of the world But you give us a profound reason why in living creatures the chiefest part is not alwayes placed in the midst because they are not of an orbicular forme as the world is then it seems that the outward figure is the cause why the best part is not placed in the midst What
you had spake within compasse If one should say that a little wheele and a great mill-stone may be moved according to the proportion of their bodies so likewise may the hill Athos or Atlas be turned about he would be counted ridiculous and yet there is a farre greater proportion between a mill-stone and those hills then between an Eagle and the Earth 7. Though the magnitude of the earth make it incapable of so swift a motion yet this doth not make the heaven much more incapable as you say For it is the magnitude joyned with the heavinesse of the earth that makes it incapable of such a motion but the heavens are not heavy though great A cloud which may be a mile or two about hath a greater magnitude then a pebble small stone and yet you see with what facility the cloud is carried whereas the stone is not moved though it were high in the air but with the motion of descent 8. As for the swiftnesse of the earth's course which exceeds not you say the celerity of clouds driven by a tempestuous winde of a cannon bullet which in a minute flies foure miles c. These I say are the phansies of a crasie braine in a dream you are the onely darling and favourite of Nature who both knowes the Earth's motion and how much it can runne in a minute It seemes this incredible swiftnesse of the earth hath made your head giddy that you know not what you write and how can it be otherwise for if you be carried 240. miles in an houre and your pen whilst it is forming almost every letter foure miles in a minute your braines flie as fast as the bullet out of the cannon If this be true I doe not think that either you know what you write or where you are nay you could not write at all nor were it possible for you to live or for your lungs and heart to move or draw breath Your subsequent discourse of the Earths magneticall property is grounded as indeed all your Book upon ridiculous suppositions and on such grounds do you raise the structure of your Babel or bables 1. You suppose that the lower parts of the Earth do not consist of such a soft fructifying soyl as in the surface because there is no use for it But what if I should suppose the contrary that it doth consist of a fructifying soyle and that there be people there aswell as in your Moone I doubt not but I could prove it with as good reasons as you do your world in the Moon 2. You suppose it consists of a hard rock is substance because these lower parts are pressed close together by the weight of the heavy bodies above them What if I should suppose the contrary that the softest ground is in the lowest parts as being farthest from the Sun which hardneth the earth therefore they that dig deep into to the bowells of the earth finde it still softer and softer the deeper they goe And wee know that many fruits and heavy bodies are hard and stonie without but soft within the earth then is not like a cheese that by pressing groweth hard 3. You suppose that this rockie substance is a load-stone But what if I should suppose it to be a diamond which is more likely both because it is the more precious stone and Nature commonly layeth up the most precious things within her most inward parts and because it is harder for according to your doctrine the pressing close of heavy bodies is the cause of hardnesse 4. It 's probable you say that this rockie substance is a load-stone because the earth and load-stone agree in so many properties What if I should say that they disagree in many more properties and that therefore this cannot be the load-stone But what an Argument is this the earth and loadstone agree in many properties therefore the lower part of the earth consists of load-stones as if you would say A man and an horse agree in many properties therefore the lower part of a man consists or is made up of a horse or thus The elementary and our culinary fire agree in many properties therefore the inmost or lower part of the one consists of the other 5. You say well that what hath all the properties of the load-stone must needs be of that nature but because you are not well read in the Master of syllogismes you inferre that the inward parts of the earth consist of a magneticall substance which is the conclusion without an assumption which should have been this but the lower parts of the earth have all the properties of the load-stone which wee deny Now let us heare how you prove it The difference you say of declination and variation in the mariners needle cannot proceed from it selfe being the same every where nor from the heavens for then the variation would not be still alike in the same place but divers according to the severall parts of heaven which at severall times happen to be over it therefore it proceeds from the earth which being endowed with magneticall affections diversly disposeth the motions of the needle I answer the Earth may have a disponent vertue to alter the needle and yet not be a load-stone so the heavens are the causes of generation corruption alterations c. in the world and yet they are not capable of these qualities the Moon causeth the sea to ebbe and flow doth shee therefore partake of the like affections or hath shee the properties of the sea The load-stone disposeth the motions of the yron will you therefore inferre that the load-stone hath the properties of yron 2. If the variation as you say of the needle be divers according to the severall parts of heaven passing over it it must follow that the needle must vary every minute and scruple of an houre even here where we live seeing every scruple or minute divers parts of the heaven are still passing over it 3. If the Inclination or motion of the needle towards the North is caused by the heaven not by the earth why should not the variation and declination of it be caused by the heaven likewise You are driven to hard shifts when you are forced to flie to similitudes for want of proofs to strengthen your weak and absurd assertions for similitudes may illustrate they cannot prove 2. Because you cannot shew any similitude of the earth's motion with such things as you are acquainted you are forced to borrow similitudes from those things with which you are not acquainted rather then you will seeme to say nothing You flie beyond the Moon Saturne and Iupiter must serve you at a dead life but I know not upon what acquaintance This is your conceit A bullet or any part of the earth being severed from the whole observes no lesse the same motions then if they were united to the whole whereas Jupiter Saturne c. doe constantly and regularly move on in their courses hanging in the
truth of his miracles the terrour of his judgements the greatnesse of his majestie be seene if these things shall not truely and really be effected you may as well say that all former miracles were but in shew or appearance as Christs turning of water into wine his walking on the Sea his raising of the dead curing of diseases appeasing of the storme c. Is it a thing more incredible for the Sun to be miraculously darkened at Christs second coming then it was at his passion when the Sun lost his light the Moone being at full Which miracle was acknowledged by that learned Areopagite being then in Egypt Or is it more incredible that the Moone shall be turned into bloud then for clouds to raine bloud of which bloudy showers you may read in the Roman and French stories and in our owne Chronicles at home of bloud that rained seaven dayes together in this Island so that the milke was turned into bloud What say you of all the waters of Egypt which were turned into bloud and if wee may beleeve the Church stories when Felix the Martyr suffered for not delivering up the Bible to be burned about the yeare of Christ 302. the Moone was turned into bloud thus God is able to make your world in the Moone Aceldama And why shall we not as well beleeve that the Starres shall fall as that they sought against Sisera or that a new Starre conducted the Wise-men to Christ God is as able to shake the Heavens and the Stars from them as a winde is to shake a fig-tree and spoile it of leaves he that setled the Stars may remove them And to tell us that these Meteors which wee call falling Stars are meant is a childish conceit seeing such doe fall almost every night and are the meer works of nature no wayes fit to expresse Gods judgements and the terrour of that day 12. Christ saith to Nicodemus that he knew not whence the winde cometh nor whether it goeth You inferre that none knows this as the vulgar thinke and therefore this and such like phrases are to be understood in relation to their ignorance and the Scripture you say speaks of some naturall effects as if their causes were not to be found out because they were generally so esteemed by the vulgar I perceive you are none of the vulgar but de meliore luto for it seemes you know these causes which the vulgar know not you are gallinae filius albae a happy man that knowes the hid cauises of things Foelix qui poteris rerum cognoscere causas I confesse my ignorance in the most of these naturall causes Philosophers reasons are not satisfactory to me Obstat cui gelidus circum praecordia sanguis But if the wiser sort know from whence the winde commeth which the vulgar doe not so likewise must the wayes of the Spirit in our regeneration be known to them also though not to the vulgar but sure that is not Christs meaning for he meanes that the way and manner of our regeneration are as hid secret to men without divine revelation as the wayes of the winde are and as none knows the one so none the other 2. If you know from whence the winde cometh and whither it goeth I pray tell us and hide not your light under a bushell perhaps you will say that it cometh from North or South East or West if you can say no more you were as good lay your finger on your lip with Harpocrates and say nothing For tell us out of what part of the earth or sea doth the North-winde arise when it blowes over our Island and how farre doth it goe or where doth it end Whence came the great South-West-winde which the 27. of December last sunke so many ships overturned so many trees overthrew so many barnes and dwelling houses and where did this winde end Can you tell us whence the Brises or trade-windes under the line which blow continually from East to West doe proceed or doe you know whence the Aniversarie windes in Egypt called Etesiae doe come These begin to blow when the dog-starre ariseth and continue forty dayes together such windes blow in Spaine and Asia but from the East in Pontus from the North. I thinke that though you should aske of the Finlanders who used to sell windes if you will beleeve Olaus they cannot informe you 3. How can Philosophers tell us from whence the winde cometh when they know not as yet what the winde is whether an exhalation or the aire moved whether it ariseth out of the sea as Homer thinks or out of the bowells and caves of the earth as others suppose Pliny will tell you of Caves where the winde blowes continually and Neptune in Virgil will shew you that AEolus hath no power in his kingdome but in the hollow caves and rockes of the earth tenet ille immania saxa Illâ se jactet in aulâ AEolus caeco c. 4. St. Austine was no vulgar man and yet hee confesseth his ignorance that he knowes not out of what treasure God bringeth forth his windes and his clouds indeed wee may all acknowledge with Seneca that our knowledge is but ignorance and because of the uncertainty of humane conjectures it is best to content our selves with the knowledge of that supreme cause of all naturall effects revealed to us in Scripture 13. Solomon you say doth onely mention the sea being obvious and easily apprehended by the vulgar to be the cause of springs and rivers though in nature there be many other causes of them I answer Solomon doth mention the sea onely not because the vulgar apprehends it so but because indeed and verily it is so to wit the onely prime cause of springs and rivers If you should tell mee that raine and vapours are other causes you would say nothing for these are subordinate to the sea hee that names the prime and superiour cause of any effect doth not exclude but include all subordinate and inferiour causes If I say the sea is the cause of springs I say inclusively that raine and vapours which have their originall from the sea are the causes also When the Jewes said they were the sons of Abraham they excluded not Isaac and Iacob When Saint Paul saith that God giveth to every seed its body hee excludes not the Sun Raine Earth and the formative power of the seed which are subordinate causes to God 2. Solomons drift was not to make a Philosophicall discourse about the causes of rivers but to shew the vanity of things by the continuall issuing and returning of rivers from and to the sea as hee had done before by the Sunnes motion 14. For the thunder which David calls the voice of God wee say that this phrase is not to be understood with relation to some mens ignorance as you fondly conceit but to Gods omnipotency and providence who by his thunder as by a voice speaks unto the world and
planting of the heavens 12. How the earth is established 13. What Job meanes by the earth moved out of its place YOu would faine here overthrow those Scriptures which shew the immobilitie of the earth 1. That place of Ecclesiastes one generation cometh and another passeth but the earth standeth for ever You say That it is not the purpose of this place to deny all kinde of motion to the whole earth but that of generation and corruption But I say that it is neither the purpose of this place to deny the motition of the earth nor to affirme the motion of the sunne for why should he either deny the one or affirme the other which no man doubted of or called in question his drift is to prove the vanity of mankinde from the stability of the earth and motion of the sun windes and waters thus man is inferiour to the earth because the earth is firme stable and immoveable whereas man abideth not in one stay but cometh forth like a flower and is cut downe he flyeth like a shadow and continueth not Or as it is here he cometh and goeth so that coming going are motions to which man is subject and are opposite to the immobilitie of the earth The Antithesis then or opposition here is not between the substance of man and of the earth for man in respect of his substance is permanent as well as the earth if either we consider his soule or his body according to the first matter but the opposition is between the qualities outward estate and life of man and the immobilitie of the earth so that the standing of the earth must be meant either of its permanency or immutabilitie or immobilitie not the first for man as I said is not inferiour to the earth in permancie not the second for the earth is subject as all sublunary things are to mutability and changes therefore the third which is the earths immobility must needs be understood And if Solomon had thought otherwise to wit that the earth moved and the sun stood still he would have said The sunne standeth for ever the earth ariseth and the earth goeth downe c. But for all his knowledge he was ignorant of this quaint piece of Philosophie Againe he proves mans vanity from the motion of the sunne windes and waters though they move and are gone for a while yet they returne againe but man being gone returnes no more so that man hath neither the stability of the earth but passeth away and being past hath not the power to returne againe as the sunne winde and waters doe It is plaine then that the standing of the earth is opposed to its locall motion and to the motion of men coming and going but it were ridiculous as you say to inferre that the earth is immoveable because permanent for the mill and ship may be permanent and yet move this illation is none of ours we say it is immoveable because Solomon here sayes so for he saith it standeth and if standing be motion then the earth moves It is more safe for us to say That the earth is immoveable because Solomon saith it stands then to say it is moveable because the word standing may signifie permanency or abiding As for the motions as you cal them of generation and corruption from which you free the earth they are not indeed motions but mutations Metus est à termino positivo ad terminum poserivum You checke the Jewes for collecting the earths eternity from the word Legnolam albeit I know that this word doth not alway signifie eternity but a long continuance of time yet that the earth is eternall à posteriori I thinke you will not deny except you will tread in some new way of your owne different from that both of ancient and modern Divines who affirme with the Scripture That there shall be a new earth but new in qualities not in substance a change of the figure not of the nature of the forme not of the substance a renovation of that beauty which is lost by man but no creation of a new Essence so that the Jewes might justly inferre from Solomons words that the earth is eternall or stablished for ever You snap at Mr Fuller for urging that these words of Solomon must be all understood literally and not some of them in reference to appearance but without cause for can the same Scripture with one breath blow hot and cold At the same time speake plainly and ambiguously in the same sentence have a double meaning The Scripture which is plaine and simple is farre from double dealing Will any thinke that when Solomon saith There be three moveable bodies the Sun Windes and Rivers that there are indeed but two and that the Sun moves not but in appearance that is moves not at all This is to make the Scripture indeed a nose of wax for what may I not interpret this way Christ fed the people with five barley loaves that is with foure loaves for one was a loafe but in appearance Three Wise-men came from Persia to worship Christ that is two came indeed but the third came onely in appearance You would laugh at me if I should tell you that of any three ships or mills which move really one did move apparently whereas both you I see them move really Now if the Sun doth not move why doth the Scripture say it doth What danger would arise if it spoke plaine in this point You say That the Scripture speaks of some naturall things as they are esteemed by mans false conceipt But this is a false conceit of yours the Scripture doth not cherish or patronise the falshood of our conceits the end of it is to rectifie our erroneous conceits It is true that in high and obscure points of Divinitie the Scripture condescending to our capacity useth the tearms of familiar and earthly things that by them we may by degrees ascend to the love and knowledge of spirituall things for the naturall man understandeth not the things of God but in naturall things which are obvious to our senses we need no such helps If the Sunne stood still it were as easie for us to understand his standing as his moving What you talke of the ends of a staffe and of the ends of the earth is impertinent and frivolous for the Scripture for want of proper words useth metaphoricall and because there is no other word to expresse the remote bounds of the earth then the word End therefore the Scripture useth it But you inferre that because the ends of a staffe and the ends of the earth cannot be taken in the same sense that therefore the motion of the sun and of the winds must be understood in divers senses make an Enthymeme and see the consequence the Scripture saith That a staffe hath ends and that the earth hath ends which cannot be understood properly and in the same sense ergo when the Scripture saith The sunne moveth
the shore and looking upon trees I see no other motion in them then what is caused by the winde When I am in a ship I perceive the motion of the other ship that saileth by me though the motion of both be equall and uniforme but when I am in an Island I can neither perceive the motion of it nor the motion of the other Island that is by it And although the motion of the eye makes a thing seeme to move which doth not move yet it doth not make the thing seeme to move which doth really move if it be within distance for being in a ship I have discerned the running of horses and carts upon the shore really though the shore it selfe moved apparently therefore though I should yeeld that the earth did move yet that motion could not make me thinke that the sun did not move really no more then the motion of the ship can hinder me from discerning the true motion of a horse or wheele on the shore and albeit motion be not the proper object of the eye yet it is an object neither is the eye more deceived in apprehending or receiving the species of motion then it is in receiving the species of colours caeteris paribus the action of the eye or passion which you will being no other towards the motion of a coloured object then towards the colour of a moving object Againe it would be considered whether the naturall motion of the earth as you call it and the violent motion of a ship produce the same effect in our eye as because the moving of a ship makes the shore seeme to move therefore the moving of the earth makes the sunne seeme to move 2. Your words seeme to be contradictory when you say That motion is not the proper object of the sight nor belonging to any other peculiar sense We say that colours are the proper object of the sight because they belong not to any other peculiar sense and that motion is not the proper object of the eye because it doth belong to other peculiar senses but your other words are false when you say That the common sense apprehends the eye it selfe to rest immoveable For when the eye is moved the common sense apprehends it to be moved and so when it rests the common sense apprehends it to rest otherwise it and the imagination should be still deceived But when you say That the eye is an ill judge of naturall secrets you should have said That it is no judge of naturall secrets for the visible workes of nature are no secrets natures secrets are invisible and therefore are judged by reason not by sense Now though this be a good consequence the earth doth not move because it doth not appeare so to us yet this consequence will not hold the earth doth move because it appeares to move for an object that is immoveable may seeme to move because the eye is moved but when we see a great body neere us to stand still wee justly inferre that it moveth not because we see it not For the apparent motion of the shore there is a manifest cause but for the apparent rest of the earth there can be no cause for if it did move it would not seem to rest being there is no cause not so much as imaginable of this supposed rest but rather the contrary for if it did move it and all things else would seeme to move as for the apparent bignesse of the sunne and moone I have already told you a reason but you have not nor can you tell mee a reason for the apparent rest of the earth 2. I objected That if the motions of the heavens be onely apparent that then the motion of the clouds would be so too your answer is That I might as well inferre that the sense is mistaken in every thing because it is so in one thing Answ. You should have rather inferred that as the sense is mistaken in one thing so it might be in any other thing but I will stand to your illation the sense is mistaken sometimes in every thing when it is mistaken in one thing of the same kinde the eye is mistaken in the bignesse of one star and so it is in the bignesse of every star because the reason or cause of the mistake is alike in all to wit the distance The eye is mistaken in the motion of one tree or house upon the shore and so it is in all the trees and houses it seeth on the shore for the reason of this mistake is alike in all to wit the agitation of the eye even so if the heavens move apparently the clouds also move apparently Nam in horum motu potest decipi visus non minus quam in motu coelorum these are my words which you cunningly left out The eye is deceivable in the one as well as in the other therefore my eye being alike disposed in respect of its agitation by the supposed motion of the earth to the heavens and to the clouds it will follow that as it is mistaken in the one so it is in the other and consequently wee must no more trust our eyes in the motion of the clouds then in the motion of the heavens if the earth did move Therefore what you speake of Anaxagoras his opinion concerning the blacknesse of the snow is fit for your selfe for to hold the snow to be blacke and the earth to move are both alike absurd and ridiculous but this opinion is more dangerous then that As for your conceit of the common sense conceiving the eye to be immoveable I have said already that it is false and indeed the opinion of one that seems to want common sense and as boldly without proofe doe you affirme that the clouds though they seeme not to move are carried about with our earth by a swift revolution for so you make the inferiour bodies against that order that God hath placed in the world to move the superiour as if you should say The foot originally moves the head and not the head the foot But this is no hinderance you say why we may not judge aright of the other particular motions It is true I judge aright of the particular motions of the clouds when I see them carried to and fro by the winde and so I judge aright of the motion of the sunne but when I see the sun and a cloud moving from East to West and you should tell me that the sunne doth not move though the cloud doth move I would know the reason why my eye should be more deluded in the one then in the other seeing the motion of the earth and so of my eye is alike disposed to both It is as much as if you would tel me when I see a horse and a man run both on the shore that the man runs but not the horse whereas my eye is alike disposed to both As for your similies of a man walking in the
ship and of the moving of the oares they will not hold for it is true that though the banks seeme to move yet it will not follow that my friend doth but seem to walke or the oares seeme to move when as they move truely the reason is because the motion of the ship is no hinderance to the sight of that motion of my friend or of the oares being so neer to my eye although that same motion of the ship is a hinderance both to the sight of the earths stability as also of the motion of such things as be afar off for a horse a great way off on the shore running will seeme to me a bush moving with the trees and bankes even so the motion of the earth may as well delude my eye in the moving of the clouds as of the sunne 3. I said that the eye could not be still deceived in its sight or judgement of a lucid body which is its prime and proper object Your answer is That the deceipt is not concerning the light or colour of these bodies but concerning their motion which is neither the primary nor proper object of the eye Answ. The motion of the sunne as you take it is no wayes the object of the eye for it is non ens in your opinion What is apparent is not quod videtur non est a seeming motion is no motion and therefore no object 2. I said that a lucid body was the eyes object the light it selfe objectum quo or the cause that bodies are discernable by the eye now what probability is there that the eyes which were made to looke upon these lucid bodies should be still deluded or can be seeing their motion is rather the object of the eye then their light as is said albeit motion be a common object I see their motion I see their lucid bodies but their light I see not properly their light is the cause or meanes by which but not the objectum quod or thing that I see 4. We say that our high buildings would be hurled down if the earth did move You answer That this motion is naturall and therefore regular and tending to conservation Answ. Earth-quakes are naturall motions which neither are regular nor tend to conservation the motion of windes haile raine thunder c. are naturall and yet doe much hurt therefore the naturality of the earths motion cannot preserve our buildings from falling But you say If a glasse of beere may stand firmely in a ship moving swiftly much lesse will the naturall and equall motion of the earth cause any danger in our buildings Answ. There is no proportion betweene a glasse of beer and a high building nor is there between the motion of a ship and of the earth for the ship moves upon the plaine superficies of the water being carried by the winde or tide the earth moves circularly and with an incredible celerity as your side say You should compare the earths motion to the motion of a wheele or great globe and then set your glasse of beer upon it whilst it is whirling about but you need not feare the fall of your high buildings though the heaven whirle about except you meane to build castles in the aire or to raise your house as high as the tower of Babell I thinke your buildings in the moone cannot stand upon such a whirling foundation 5. I perceive by your Interjection ha ha he that you are a merry gentleman indeed you cannot answer for laughing but Per resum multum c. I doubt me you are troubled with a hypochondriacke melancholy or with the spirit of blinde Democritus take heed of risus Sardonius But let us see what it is that tickles you I had said that though this circular motion of the earth were naturall to it yet it was not naturall to townes and buildings for these are artificiall To this you answer not but by your interjection of laughter which is a very easie way to solve arguments and so fooles will prove the best disputants I hope you doe not thinke that townes and buildings are naturall bodies or that the motion of the earth is naturall to them and if you thinke that artificiall things are priviledged from falling by the naturall motion of a naturall foundation you speake against reason and experience for a ship is not priviledged from sinking because the foundation on which it is carried moves naturally and high buildings must needs be weakned by motion let it be never so equall and regular hee that thinkes otherwise deserves to be laughed at I have read of moving Islands but without buildings you were best goe build there 6. I said that the aire could never be quiet about us but that there would be a continuall and forcible motion of it from East to West if the earth did move with that celerity you speak of to this you answer That the aire is carried along with the same motion of the earth But this will not help you for the carrying of the aire about with the earth cannot hinder the forcible motion of it nor can we be so senselesse as not to feele it Doth not the whirling about of a great wheele move the aire about it and if you stood by you should feele it But you are very witty in your words following If the motion of the heaven say you which is a smooth body be able to carry with it a great part of the three elements c. much more may our earth which is a rugged body be able to turne the aire next to it You should rather say If the earth which is but a small dull low and heavy body can carry the aire about with it much more may the heavens doe this which are vast agil active and high bodies for we finde that the superiour bodies are more apt to work upon and to move the inferiour then to be moved by the inferiour as the inferiour parts of the little world of mans body are moved by the head so it is in the great world Againe the heavens in respect of their agility activity subtlety come neerer to the nature of spirits then the earth which is a dull heavy lumpish body not apt to be moved much lesse to move Is it the earth that moves the aire or the aire that moves the earth in earth-quakes Is it the earthy and heavy part of mans body that moves these aereall substances in the nerves which we call animall spirits Or are not these rather the movers of our grosse bodies Your argument is just such another as this if the winde or aire be able to move about the weather-cocke much more may the tower or steeple which is a rugged body move it But that rugged bodies are more apt to move or to be moved then smooth bodies I never heard before I have observed that the smoother the bowle is the swifter it runneth why did David choose five smooth stones to sling if rugged ones
nine arguments which I urged in one Chapter against your opinion but because I proceed say you with such scorne and triumph you will examine my boastings You doe wisely like the Romans who that their Generals might not be puffed up with the glory of their triumphs caused some to walke along by their chariots using upbraiding words the like doe you calling my arguments cavills not worth the naming yet you are pleased to name them to shew doubtlesse their weaknesse and your wit My first cavill as you call it is this If the earth move it will be hotter then the water because motion is the cause of heat but that the earth should be hotter then water is repugnant to that principall in naturall Philosophie which affirmes the earth to be colder besides the water would never freeze if it were moved as swiftly as the earth This argument because you cannot answer you picke as you thinke a contradiction out of it which is this The earth by motion is hotter then the water and yet the water moves along with it which water is made warme also by motion that it is not capable of congelation Answ. Is this a contradiction thinke you the earth is hotter then the water and yet the water is hot too the fire is hotter then the aire and yet the aire is hot too who ever heard that the degrees of comparison make a contradiction I should not contradict my selfe if I should say Keplar was a cold disputant but you are a colder 2. Though I say that the water moveth along with the earth yet the earth may be hotter then the water without any contradiction for of two bodies moving together one may be hotter then the other especially if they be of different natures who knowes not that drie and solid bodies such as the earth is are more capable intensively of heate then thin and moist bodies such as the water is 3. Though the earth water and aire next to it be not severed one from another yet they are made hot by such a violent motion when you runne your cloathes skin flesh bloud c. are not severed one from the other and yet your motion makes them all hot 4. If motion in fluid bodies were the cause of coldnesse as you say some do think then it would follow that the more you move your bloud should be the colder Scaliger shewes that they who water their horses being hot use to stirre the water violently that it may be brought to a warme temper that the horses may drinke without danger 5. I deny that all running waters are the coldest neither are they the colder because they run but because the meet still with fresh aire so shall you in a cold day if you rise to walke be colder for a while then when you sit still not because you walke for that in time will warme you but because you meet with fresh aire vvhich you did not vvhilest you sate neither is there yet so much heat in you as to abate the sense of the cold aire till your motion have caused it 6. I deny that the strongest windes are still the coldest though they blow from the same coast at the same time of the year for I have observed that in one February a gentle easterly vvind hath brought snovv and the next February a strong East vvinde hath brought raine 7. If rest be the cause that in cold vveather vvater doth freeze then all vvaters that rest vvould freeze and no running vvaters vvould freeze but this is false for some vvaters resting doe not freeze and sometimes running vvaters doe freeze vvhen the motion is not so strong as to stirre up the heat therefore it remaines that the heat caused by the motion and not the motion it selfe is the hinderance of the waters freezing 8. If this motion were true that the earth runnes foure miles in a minute the heat of the aire would be more then moderate even in winter you could not indure the heat of it we should need no fire to warme us wood would be cheap enough 2. My second argument was this If the earth did move the aire then the aire which is next to the earth would be purer as being more rarified but the contrary is true for the higher the aire is the purer it is You answer never a word to this argument which shewes you assent Qui tacet consentire videiur 3. My third argument If the earth did move the aire it would cause a sound but this is no more audible then the Pythagoricall harmony of heaven You answer That there is no reason why this motion should cause a sound more then the supposed motion of the heavens But I say there is a great deale of reason for if any solid body be it never so small though an arrow bullet or wand moving the air cause a sound will not the vast body of the earth turning the aire with that violence cause a hideous noise which would make us all deafe now there is no reason why the motion of the heavens should make any sound for neither are they solid bodies themselves nor doe they move or encounter any solid body nor is there any aire in heaven which things are required to make a sound 4. I argued that nature had in vaine endowed the heavens with all conditions requisite for motion if they were not to move for they have a round figure they have neither gravity nor levity they are incorruptible and they have no contrary This you say will prove the earth to move as well as the heavens For that hath a round figure it is not heavy in its proper place and being considered as whole the other two conditions you reject as being untrue and not conducing to motion Answ. Though I should grant you that the earth were round yet it is not so exactly round and smooth as the heaven for it hath many mountaines and vallies and some hills higher some lower is a globe or boule that hath knobs and dents in it so fit for motion as that which is smooth and equally round 2. I have shewed already the folly of that conceit which holdeth the whole earth not to be heavy in it s own place as if the elements must loose their essentiall properties being in their own places whereas it is the place that preserveth the propertiese and essenc of things Have the fire and aire lost their levity because they are in their own places and is it not absurd to say as I have already shewed that there should be weight in a part of any thing and not in the whole as if a piece of an yron bullet were heavie but not the whole bullet you were as good say that totum non est majus suâ parte 3. Whereas you say that the heavens are corruptible you may say also that they are generable and so being subject to generation and corruption they are of the same nature with sublunary bodies and must
Pererius explaines himselfe in another place that that is only time properly and principally which is measured by the motion of the primum mobile because the motion of the heaven is the first and the cause of all other motions and because it is the least as being the swiftest and it is most certaine and uniforme universall and known to all so that if the earth did move which as yet you have not proved yet these conditions cannot agree with the earths motion time which is measured by other motions is not properly and formally but materially and improperly so called so it is false that the earths motion is the cause of time which Pererius never affirmed or dreamed of 4. You will have the heavens subject to other vanities besides that of motion as first unto many changes witnesse the comets seen amongst them and then to that generall corruption in the last day when they shall passe away with a noise c. Answ. If changes be vanity to how much vanity is your world in the Moon subject which so often changeth 2. Though the heavenly bodies were subject to other vanities as you say yet these will not exempt them from the vanity of motion 3. How comets which are Gods extraordinary workes and denouncers of his judgements are vanities I understand not 4. That the Apostle speaks of comets in that place is your part to prove either by reason or authority 5. That comets which are seen onely by us in the aire are discerned by you amongst the heavenly bodies is no wonder seeing you can discern a world in the Moon 6. St. Ambrose on that place sheweth that the vanity to which the heaven is subject is the continuall toile of their motion and that it expects rest that it may be delivered from servile work 7. If the heavens be subject to the vanity of corruption as you say tell us whether you speak properly and philosophically or metaphorically If philosophically you are absurd for every fresh-man can tell you that heaven is not capable of generation and corruption if metaphorically you speak impertinently for by the passing away of heaven is meant onely the abolition of imperfect qualities and a perfecting of it to a more glorious estate 8. The heavens you say are subject to that generall corruption in which all creatures shall be involved in the last day But you cannot tell us what that corruption shall be and so you speak at randome you doe not mean I hope that the heavens shall be involved in the same corruption with snakes rats toads and other such kinde of creatures You say that there is not such invincible strength in my arguments as might cause me triumph before hand But I say there is so much vincible weaknesse in your answers that makes me think that the refutation of them deserves neither triumph nor ovation so that my strife with you is but pugna nullos habitura triumphos neither did I purpose to make you any reply had not some friends solicited me to vindicate the truth and my owne credit which seemed to be somewhat eclipsed by the unwholsome fogs and misty discourses of your Book I said that the heaven was called AEthera ab 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from its continuall motion and the earth Vesta quòd vi suâ stat from its immobility You say they were so called because it was then the common opinion that the heaven moved and the earth stood But now because you are of another opinion it 's fit that the names be changed aswell as the nature let the heaven now be called Vesta and the earth AEtherae or let heaven be called Terra quòd perenni cursu omnia terat and the earth should be called coelum à caelando so let all things and arts be confounded Grammar aswell as your Logick Philosophy and Astronomy 2. If heaven and earth have their Etymology from what they seeme to be not from what they are then the like may be said of other things Fire is called focus à fovendo from cherishing the sea is called mare quasi amarum because it is salt or bitter not that these things are so but because they seem to be so the like may be said of other Etymologies 3. For your conceit of the Hebrew word Erets from Ruts because it runs is but a running motion of your head The Hebrews who were better skilled in their owne language then you are derive Erets from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because it continually desires to beare fruit as Munster sheweth in Genes c. 1. You object to your selfe How are two distinct motions conceiveable in the earth at the same time and you answer you selfe that it is easily apprehended considering how both these motions tend from West to East as you instance in a bowle Answ. How the earth should have two distinct circular motions is not conceiveable by us nor demostrable by you Your similie of the bowle is a poor demonstrastration and indeed false for it running on the superficies of the ground hath not two circular motions as you should have shewed but onely one such motion or rowling the other as it moves from your hand to the mark is the motion of projection or rather the bowles motion is indeed but one being a mixed or compounded motion neither doth it move with two distinct circular motions in the same place the same time as you will have the earth to doe but it runs from one place to another neither is it naturall but violent and though it were true that the bowle had two distinct circular motions in the same place at the same time yet it will not prove that the earth is either capable or we conceiveable of these two motions considering the disproportion that is between the vast and heavy earth and a small light bowle You conclude this Chapter singing the triumph before the victory for you say that we may gather some satisfaction out of it but indeed we can gather none neither are we a whit the wiser for it but leave it with as great discontents and as little satisfaction as they did Sibylla's cave who came to consult with her intricate Oracles Inconsulti abeunt sedemque odêre Sibyllae Chap. IX 1. The earth cannot be the cause of its owne motion 2. The vasinesse and thicknesse of the heavin no hinderance to its motion 3. The matter of the heavens and their smoothnesse no hinderance to their motion 4. Bignesse helps motion 5. The heavens swistnesse illustrated by other motions 6. The earth neither the finall nor efficient cause of its motion the heaven fitter for motion because greater and more constant nature worketh not still the most compendious way some idle similitudes refuted 7. Bodies having the same properties have not alwayes the same motion motion belongs to the noblest creatures 8. The smoothnesse subtilty and purity of bodies no hinderance to their motion the aire moves the water the circular motion of the fire naturall
by sense or reason demonstrations are of things true and reall not of dreames and imaginations therefore neither your pictures nor bare words shall perswade us that dayes moneths yeares houres weekes c. are or can be caused by the earths motion till first you have proved that the earth moveth you that cannot abide Eccentrickes and Epicycles in the heavens are forced now to make use of them both for the motion of the Moone and of the earth too so that you have not mended but marred the matter rejecting Ptolomy because of Eccentrickes and Epicycles aud yet you admit Copernicus with his new devised Moone Eccentricks and Earth Eccentrickes so that you thinke by these fictions to solve the divers illuminations bignesse eclipses c. of the Moone A phantasticall Astronomer might devise other wayes besides these of Ptolomy and Copernicus to shew the different appearances of the Planets for of things that are uncertaine and beyond our reach divers men will have divers conceits and conjectures many have held and doe at this day yet maintaine that the stars have soules and are living creatures and why may not this be as true as your opinion that there is a world of living creatures in the Moone What if I should hold that the eight spheare is a solid substance therefore called firmamentum full of holes some great and some small so that these lights which wee call starres are but beames of that bright and cleare heaven above called Empyreum shining through these holes Or if I should say that every starre had its Angel moving it about the earth as wee use in darke nights to carry lanternes divers Nations of Asia Africke and America have divers opinions of the starres and few or none true all which do argue our ignorance and foolishnesse we are but Curvae in terris animae coelestium inanes But any of these conjectures mentioned is as probable as yours of the earths motion therefore I was not without sense and reason when I concluded my Booke with this Argument That if the Sunne stood still there could be no variation of the shadow in the Sunne Diall you will say that may be altered by the earths motion but I say to you as I said to Mr. Carpenter prove that and what I profered to him I also profer to you Phillida solus habeto You will say this may be easily proved if I will admit the earth to move but so you may say that you will easily prove an Asse to flye if I should admit that hee hath wings but I will not admit that upon a false maxime of your devising you shall inferre what you please What if I should admit an absurd conceit of yours that the Earth draweth the Moone about can you prove mee that when the Moone shineth there is any variation of shadowes when both the luminous and opace body are moved with the same motion 2. The difference you say betweene Summer and Winter between the number and length of dayes and of the Sunnes motion from Signe to Signe and all other appearances of the Sunne concerning the annuall motion may be seene by your Figures and easily solved by supposing the earth to move in an Eccentricall orbe about the Sunne Answ. Not the Sunnes appearances but your phantasies are to be seene by your figures the earth doth not move because your figure represents it it is also an easie matter to suppose things that never were nor can be you suppose the earth to move about the Sunne and not the Sunne about the earth you may as well suppose the house to be carried about the candle and not the candle about the house and so all appearances may be solved as well this way as the other for if the house did move about the candle the house shall be seene as well as if the candle did move about the house and why may we not suppose the house to move sometimes neerer to and sometimes farther from the candle the neerer it moveth the more it is illuminate c. But what Cato is so grave as to refraine from laughter at such absurd and foolish suppositions You spend much paper to shew how the Planets will appeare direct stationary retrograde and yet still move regularly about their owne centers This is Magno conatu magnas nugas dicere and who but Iudaeus apella will beleeve that one motion of the earth should cause so many different appearances in the severall Planets howsoever you talke of Ptolomie's Wheele-worke I preferre his Wheele to your Whirlegig It is more easie for many Planets to wheele about then for one rocke or piece of earth to whirle about but you are as exact in placing the Planets as if you had been upon the top of Iacobs ladder You place Mercury next to the Sunne hiding himselfe under his rayes you say well for theeves doe use to hide themselves but for one to hide himselfe in the open light is not usuall darknesse one would thinke were more proper then that But how Mercury hath a more lively vigorous light then any of the other I understand not I should rather thinke that there were a more lively vigorous light in the Sun Moone and Venus And whereas you say that Venus in her conjunction with the Sunne doth not appeare horned is true but if her husband Vulcan had beene as neere the Sunne his hornes doubtlesse had beene seene doe not you know how much ashamed Venus was when the Sunne looked upon her being in bed with Mars Now that the orbe of Mars containeth our earth within it I will not deny but I am sure our earth containeth Mars within it who is oftentimes too exorbitant Toto saevit Mars impius orbe And that the orbe of the Moone comprehends the earth in it because shee is sometimes in opposition to the Sunne is a feeble reason as though the opposition of two round bodies should be the cause why that which is in the midst betwixt them should be within the circumference of either of their circles or orbes Other Planets have their oppositions is therefore the earth within the orbe of either of them Or why is the earth more within the orb of the Moone then of the Sun seeing the Moone is no more in opposition to the Sun then the Sun is to the Moone 3. You conclude your Booke with a large digression upon the commendations of Astronomy which hath for its object the whole world you say And therefore farre exceeds the barren speculation of universale and materia prima Answ. It seemes you have left nothing for the objects of other sciences if Astronomy must ingrosse the whole world for its object 2. Vniversum belike exceeds Vniversale with you and the extent of the one is not so large nor the speculation so fruitfull as of the other but surely your Vniversum or world in the Moone is as barren a notion as that of Vniversale 3. The knowledge of Philosophy and Logicke