the auncient Priestes of the lawe vnto whome GOD hath forbidden it For if they woulde bée Iewes and followe them in older thinaes they oughte also to followe them in thys or to yéelde a reason wherefore they followe them in one thing and not in an other Hillarius they had rather to followe the Gentyles and Panims in this behalfe For their Ceremonies and superstytions doo bringe vnto them more profite the which they followe notwithstandinge they are nothing worthe as I haue alreadye sayde Wherefore I thincke that they would haue made to others a lawe gathered out of all that whiche was euyll and wycked Theophilus It is then easelye to bée vnderstanded by all those thinges that the prayse that Neomi dyd gyue vnto Ruth sayinge The Lorde deale as kindlye wyth you as ye haue dealte wyth the dead And vnto Booz in lyke manner praysinge hym for that hée hath kepte for the deade that same grace and lyberalytie as he did vnto the liuinge regarding not the Masses prayers songes and sacrifices whiche they haue done for them But the loue and charitie that they haue shewed towardes the parents and friendes of the dead that be liuing Wherefore the holy Scripture declareth what mercy we ought to haue of the dead and what good déedes God requyreth of vs for them The prayers offerings and good deedes that Ruth that good wydowe did make for hir husbande that was dead was that she kept company faith and loyaltie wyth Noemi hir Mother in lawe hir husbandes mother A poore widowe both of husbande and children as shée hirselfe was she comforted hir in hir afflictions and aduersities And nourished cherished loued hir was attendaunt vpon hir in hir olde age as though she had bene hir owne mother In like manner the grace and loue that Booz hath also kept done vnto the sonnes of Noemi as well to those that were dead as to those the be liuing that is that euen as during their life he hath exercised loue and charitie towards them in cherising and comfortinge them the lyke affection hath he kept towardes them after they were deade And when he coulde no more ayde and succour them and that they had no more neede of him hée hath declared his loue that he dyd beare vnto them towardes the wydowes mothers and wiues of whome he hath had pittie and compassion hath hulpen them both in body goods procuring wyth all his power the honour and profite both of the one of the other vntill he did take to wyse that poore widowe Ruth the Moabite which was y graundmother of Dauid and hir remembraunce is celebrated with the same of Booz hir husbande in the gonealogy of Iesus Christe Wherefore we may knowe howe much the woorke bothe of the one of the other hath pleased God what remembraunce we ought to haue of the dead Thomas I doe finde that to bée the best waye to bestowe and giue the almose vnto the poore widowes and fatherlesse children for that is the true Religion then for to take their goodes and bestowe them vppon the dead or to waste and consume them vppon bawdes and harlots and vpon their children in like manner Hillarius I warrant you they will not followe any good example nor the certeine commaundement of God but what do they follow in this matter When I haue wel read ouer and ouer againe all the holy Scripture I doe not finde one worde And the most auncientest that I can finde which did first bringe in those manner of dooings among the Panims was Pluto of whome we will speake off héereafter whome the Docts and the Panims haue made the God of the soules and the king of the dead and of hell After him came Aeneas who did bringe that custome into Italy After Aeneas Romulus and Numa the Kinges of the Romaines afterwardes our Popes who haue contynued augmented and confirmed still more and more those errours and abuses Althoughe that the Panyms hadde yet a certeyne better opynion in the same then our superstitious Papystes hadde For they dyd not make the sacryfices for the deade for the estymation that they hadde that that shoulde serue them for to deliuer them from paines but for to appease them to the ende that their spirites shoulde not hurt them and doe them euill if they had displesed them when they were aliue For Plato himselfe who hath bene the one of the chiefest forgers inuenters of Purgatory witnesseth plainely that the parents friends cānot profit y dead And therfore saith he the parents friends and kinsslolkes ought to admomshe their friends that they do liue well and honestly and to do presently vnto them that good For there to wytte after this life they cannot giue it thē And before the iudgement seat there shall not be any great company of parents friends which shall mainteine and defende and intreate y Iudge and which canne obtaine of him that he wil pardon thée Theophilus I would to God that all our diuines bad no more euill and wicked opinions then that panim touching the dooings of the dead and that they had saide noe sentence lesse to be credited then this Thomas If the panims did not meane y their sacrifices commemoration should profit the dead wherefore did they it then Hillarius It might be that they did thinke that there might retourr◠vnto them some little profit But yet neuerthelesse their cheife intent and purpose was to appease the soules of the dead and to reconcile them vnto them by that meanes to the end they should not hurt them either in their bodies or goods euen as they haue accustomed to celebrate scasts and to do sacrifices vnto the soules of holy men whom they did think to be in heauen with the gods for to haue ayd and solace as Aeneas did vnto his Father Anchises And all that errour procéeded from the false opinion that they had of the soules and for want of knowing their nature and estate therefore they iudged after their owne sence and vnderstanding and not after the word of god As they do also of the bodies thinking at the least the most supersticyous as it hath bene alreadye touched that the soule doth walke a certaine time if their bodyes hath not bad y honor of the burial such as apertameth was meete for them And that the bodies were in daunger of Enchantors and sorcerers which would abuse them thorow their Nycromancic coniuration And the Hebrewe Rabins and doctors of the Iewes and in no lesse dreaming For they say that the dead body is left in the power of the diuell who calleth him selfe Zazell and doe wrest and turne those places of the scripture for to confirme their erroure vnto whom it is said vnto the Serpent Thou shalt eate of the earth all the dayes of thy life And in another place The earth shal be the Serpents meate They woulde conclude
Pamins do allow the Ceremonies Feasts and Anniuersaries of the dead yet neuerthelesse they doe also teache that it is not nowe néedefull to bestowe any greate cost about them but that they content themselues with a little thing euen as Ouid the maister of ceremonies witnesseth in his Calender in these wordes It is an honor dew to soules and bodies that be dead To bring such giftes to yerksome graue as satisfye their mead The soules doe much delite therein and much the same doth craue By meanes whereoff themselues they thinke from Plutos force to saue With flowers greene and garlands gay their heads they doe adorne And wine and salt is put thereto with other fruites and corne Nor things of more waight I reproue For soules therein delight On graue say thou thy prayers then that ghostes may haue their right Wherevnto agréeth also the Dracle of Apollo speaking of the sacrifices of the infernall Gods and of the soules in these wordes The Gods vvich vvith their bodies black about the vvorld do fly Which also dayly sacrifice require incessauntly Iucense of Meale and salted fruites and also pleasaunt Cakes See that you make together mixt as daintie delicates For that cause they vsed in that time there to sette such meates vpon a. stpueâ—to the cude that the good scules and shadowes should come and banket there they called that banquet and supper that they made for them Silicernium bicause that the shadowes and the soules behold it in stlence They doe also call it Feralis Coena as wee may say the supper of the dead of which speaketh luuenal confirminge the thinges aboue spoken after thys manner In platters small the suppers they doe put â—oâ— bodies dead in lothsome graue layd vp And in like manner Persius speaking of him which consumed his goods foolishly The heire with wrathfull ire doth pine to see thy goods so spent Nor funerall feastes esteeme will he not made to his intent I doe thincke that Baruch did vnderstand by such suppers that which is written in hys booke of the Priestes of the Babilonians and Idolaters saying The Priestes sit in their temples hauing open clothes whose beades and beardes are shauen and haue nothinge vpon theire beades roaring and crying vpon their Gods as men doo at the feaste when one is dead Hee sheweth in sewe woordes the manner that the Idolaters had both in their diuine seruice for the Gods and the office of the dead Hillarius And what had they that wée haue not dooe not our Priestes roare and crye both after their Gods and after the dead may we not rightlye call their Masses of Requiem the supper of the dead For they haue all that which Baruch hath comprehended without faylinge one haire of ones head It may haue peraduenture some differâ—ce in that that the Masse is song in the morning Wherfore it should soeme more fitter to call it the draft of wine or the breakfast or dinner of the dead Thomas That which thou hast spoken to couer the able to the dâ—â—â— is vsed yet at this day of some who at the fense that is made when one is dead do leaue all night the Table couered and set full of meates béeing of that opinion that the soules do come thither to banket Theophilus Maister Iohn Belet witnesseth neuerthelesse in his booke that he made of the Legend of Saincts and feastes of all the yeare that the auncients haue ordeyned the feast of Sainct Peters chaire in February vppon suche a day as the Panyms accustomed to offer yearely Wyne and other meats vppon the Sepulchers of the dead and to banket them thinking that the soules and shadowes which passed by the Sepulchers would come eate Wherefore to abolishe that superstitious witked custome they haue constituted that that feast should be celebrated the which for that cause was called at the beginning the feast of Sainct Peter of meates bankets Hillarius And what haue they gayned by changing it The poore Christian people haue no profit by it and there is no gaine but for the Priests whiche in ste ede therof haue at this day their stones aulters vpon which they do lay their table clothes and afterwardes when the table is spread and couered wee must take care for the meates and pay the banket and yet neuertheles we cate nothing at all but are as the Panims which bring the supper to the dead afterwards they onely looke on them not daring to touch it which was also the one of the causes wherefore that banket was called Silicernium as witnesseth Donatus For they did thinke that whosoeuer did taste eate or drinke of that which was offered vnto the dead was polluted and defyled But our priestes feare not that For they themselues doe eate with they domestical Nimphes which beuoure and consume with them the reliefe which remayned for that soules For such Nymphes do take no lesse pleasure in sweete deheate meats then those of the Panims who would that one should offer vnto them wyne and â—ony as witnessoth the Oracle of Apollorsaying The Nymphes are glad and make good fare with hony and wine which pleasant are In steede of them wée haue those paliards whorehunters vnto whom we must offer vnder the title and name of the Soules who endeuour themselues so wel that nothing of the offrings remaineth although that that shadowes and soules diminish them nothing at al. For they baue not very great bellies except peradueÌ„ture there be dronkerds like vnto those of the bawde vnto when Propeise giueth the Requiescant in pace saying Thou slinking bavvde and filthy vvhore strumpet al forlornt Thy lothsome Tombe is ouer grone vvith sharpe pricking thorne Thy ghost ' is dry fore a thirst so vvill still remaine Against thy will it must be so vvhy should I to thee saine Thomas Yet neuertheles a man shall finde shadowes which do eate very well and which haue good teeth great bellies Hillarius If thou doe take the shadowes for those which come vnto the bankets not beeing byd with those which are the gestes I graunt vnto thée that such shadowes haue not the taste in the teeth nor liue not of the dewe as the Grashoppers or of the winde as the Camelion But the shadowes of which I speake are of another nature The auncients called those whom thou speakest off shadowes bicause that they follow and accompany those that are bidden as the shatowe solloweth and accompanieth the bodie and vnder coloure of them all though that they bee not called by him that maketh the banket do keepe neuerthelesse company with the gestes sit at the table with them After that sorte did Plutarch expounde it and Horace amonge the Latius hath often vsed it For when such shadowes are at the table they do effectually shew that they are not vaine emptie shadowes but of bodies altogether fat
enter into the matter I bring in the persons who take their theame and matter vpon a fermon which they heard of an holy father entreating of such matters And although the matter might seeme wholy to be fayned yet it hath the foundacion vppon a true history For mine intent is partly in this first disputacion to rebuke the sottish and vayne curiositie of foolish Preachers and Doctors who haue forsaken the principal points of the holy Scripture to occupy thēselues vpō vnprofitable questions vayne contemplations to enquire of things that they cannot know and which wee haue not to doe withall And which serue to none other ende but to hinder and let the poore Christian people to seeke out the will of God to induce and lead them to false religion supersticion Idolatay and all Paganisme Also I declare the Arguments of the Popes Purgatorie with the Purgatorie of the Panims and the ceremonies and supersticions which they vse about the dead out of what spring they issued and what haue bene the purgations of the Panims which the Idolatrous Christians do yet keepe and how the Papisticall Purgatory hath serued the insatiable auarice of those which doe lyue to destroy and deuoure all the poore world Also how the priests Purgatorie is burned how fire hath taken the same and what punishment is prepared for those which go vnto strange fire to be purged from their sinnes any other then the fire of lesus Christ and how the priests do disagree both from the word of God and from their owne doctrine decrees and cannōs After those things we shal enter into the secōd part which shall entreat of the appearing of the spirites of those that be dead All these things shal be yet more playnly vnderstoode and better confirmed by the Dialogues following of the which the last shal be of the immortalitie of the soules and the resurrection of the flesh Afterwardes we will come vnto the lyuing and in the other parts wee shall enter into matters yet more graue more necessary and of greater importance for the present time to shew what is the estate of the world of relygion and by what meanes that man which feareth God and the poore troubled and doubtfull consciences may be assured and know what is the true Church the truth and wherevnto they may surely stay themselues and how they may be certeine what doctrine is of god I haue intituled this first Dialogue the Alchymee of Purgatory chiefely for two causes The first bicause I declare how the auncient Panims and our priests after their example doe trauayle to extract the fifte essence of the soules which they melt in their furnaces of Purgatory The other is bicause from those furnaces our priests do drawe out the Philosophicall stone ¶ For to enter then into the matter Hillary beginneth asking his companions of the Sermon which they heard ¶ THE FIRST DIALOGVE which is called the Alchymee of Purgatorie The Speakers Hillarius Eusebius Theophilus Thomas HIllarius If mine eyes haue not deceiued mée I thinke I saw you all thrée to day at the Sermon wherefore I desire to know your opinions how the same pleased you and what you thinke of the Preacher Eusebius As far as I can iudge I thinke that he is very skilfull and cloquent for he hath spoken very learnedly and deepely of matters so obscure and profounde Hillarius He could not speake more profoundly For he hath pearced euen vnto y very centre of the earth therfore I am the more abashed that he spake so cléerly of matters so obscure and of these darke places no man euer saw ought For the Sunne neuer shineth there Theophilus As far as I could perceiue by him I thinke that eyther he hath not bene in those places of which he spake or els if he were it is long agoe If the opinion of Isydore be true we shall haue very small occasion to giue credite to this ghostly father and to his preachinge Eusebius Hath Isydore ben of an other opinion then the rest of the Christian Doctors touching this matter Theophilus There is none among the Christians which doubteth that there is an hell seeing that the holy Scripture rendereth so sure and vndoubtefull a testimony with the which we ought to content our selues not willyng to know any further then it hath reuealed it vnto vs It ought to suffice vs which Iesus Christ witnesseth vnto vs that there is an hell of eternall vnquenchable fire where the worme dieth not but wher ther is euerlasting horrour weeping gua hing of teeth we need not to enquire of the place for I thinke ther is none which desireth to go thether And therfore we haue néede to praye vnto GOD that it woulde please him to giue vs his grace to know his will and to be able to accomplish it thorow his sonne Iesus Christ to the ende we may auoide that hell fire and extreme darkenesse We néede not much to stay to know in what place hell is whether it is in the centre of y earth according to the common opinion of the Doctors of Plato which saith y it is in the depth of the earth or whether it is vnder the earth in the country of the Antipodes according to the opinion of Isydore who sayth that after the day of iudgement the Sunne and the Moone shall kéepe themselues so stedfaste in heauen that they shall no more tourne round about the earth but giue their lyght and brightnesse onely in that part of the world in y which we dwell and that the damned shal be all sent away vnder the earth into those horrible darkenesse and into those places in the which at this day some men doe thinke that the Antipodes doe dwell Hillarius If it were so that the Sunne and the Moone doth nowe shine there wée maye thinke that some one of the countrye of the Antipodes is come from thence who hath declared and described to our Preacher the scituacion of hell of Lymbo patrum and of Purgatory with al their confines in such sort and manner as he hath expounded them vnto vs. Thomas You may saye what you will and I will beléeue what pleaseth mée but I cannot thinke that he was euer there or that hée hath euer heard any one speake that came from thence hath so well visited all the places theroff For neuer in my lyfe I hearde it better deuised There is neyther hall chamber nor closet cole-panne kitchin nor seller chimney nor pot-hangers great caudron nor lyttle caudron chaynes nor flesh-hookes and other insernall vtensills but that he hath described and set them foorth so lyuely as mée thinketh I sée the thinges before mine eyes in such sort that yet I am afrayde when I thinke on them The Cyrographers and Notaryes are very dilygent and curious for to expresse declare in their instruments and writings the situacion lymtis of houses and possessions of which they make writings off But
or touching them as the son of y Centurion But euen as thereby hée woulde declare that al procéeded from his vertue and power not of the creatures Also sometime hée vsed them for to let vs to vnderstande that when hée woulde they shoulde serue hée gaue them such vertue and propertie as it pleaseth him for to learne vs that wée ought not to despise the meanes that hée hath gyuen vnto vs how vile soeuer our reason iudgeth them to bée For whatsoeuer they may bée so that hee hath ordeined them and that wée haue hys promise wée muste not doubt but by them hée doth that which hée hath promysed Therefore hée hath taken thinges which had not of their owne nature the vertue to bringe to passe those effectes to whiche they haue bene applyed that all men might knowe that from hym onely procéeded the vertue and not of any ordinary or naturall cause But these miraculous woorkes are nothinge at all lyke vnto those which our Priestes doe and theire ceremonies haue not such promises If by that they could remedy she corrupt waters as Eliseus did we will acknowledge the gyft to woorke myracles to bée in them which was in Eliseus But to what ende serueth the salt in the water Hillarius To what ende serueth it to bée put into the mouthes of the little children when they baptize them Theophilus As much as their spittle profited the infants béeing put into their mouthes vppon the tongue and vppon the eares Hillarius Mée thinckes that I doe see Apes which would counterfet al y woorkes of Iesus Christ At the least wise all their dooings are as those of the Apes which doth but little and yet euill If they could by their spittle make the little children and those that are dumme speake or make the blinde sée and the deafe heare I would counsaile them to vse it often But if I had a little childe I would not haue that such swinish pockie Merchaunts as are among them should breath ouer his face nor put their spittle in his mouth They doe call their salt y salt of wisdome And in stéed to season vs to make vs wise through the salt of the woord of God They salt vs in the throat at the baptisme I thincke that they feared y the wine would not abide drincking that we should not be good bibbers Wherefore they would season vs in good time I beléeue that they greatly feared least we should become Turkes and least we should cast vp the wine if they salted not wel the throate as men doe vnto their shéepe If they coulde with their salt make the fooles to become wise I woulde thinck it good to salt al the foolish people as men do salt the fat larde throughout all the body not onely in the throat Thomas I would not giue y counsaile For then the salt would ware very déere if Saloman hath said true wryting that the number of the fooles are infinit Hlilarius Thy reason is good For y inconuenience which thou speakest off would follow and an other more greater To wéet that S. Maturyn who healed the fooles should loose his occupation Besios that I beléeue that the salt although there be great quantitie store of it wil not much profit y soules when the Priestes doe mingle them with the Water For the disease is very incurable But for to retourne to our Priests I doo beléeue that of that salt Water they would make such potage for the soules as my Mother did once make for hir selfe for me my little brother which were not much aboue twelue or xiij yeares of age without putting into it eitheir Oile or Butter bicause that she would haue vs to fast with hir with bread water For if ther had bene any fatnesse in the broth or potage it had not bene a perfect fast If it bée so our Priests on this side the sea which dwell farre from it should haue better coulour cause to salt season the water then those y dwell hard by it For if they would make potage for the soules they shall finde inough of such sodden Water in the sea they shall not néede to seeke after the example of Eliseus for to make him their Authour For he was neuer such a Cooke But they must giue the honour of that inuētion vnto Pope Alexander the first of that name For if they will purge the dead through water I woulde gyue them counsaile rather to wash them altogether with hotte Water as the Panims dyd theirs and call that washing the last bath or washing euen as our Priests doo call their last an cling or vnction the latter Sacrament In which they doe héerein differ from the Panims that they anoynted men a lyttle before they dye the Panims anointed them afterwardes Wherefore their vnction was a little more latter But least you should thincke that I speake wythout authoritie as many Diuines and Preachers doe when they doo preache their owne fables and dreames I will bring out first for mine Authours that auncient Poet Ennius saying When death vvith dreadfull dart bereft king Tarquin of his life His body vvasht and nointed vvas by handes of his ovvne vvife And Virgile speakinge of the burninge of Misenus sayth Some brought the Water vvarme in Caudrōs hot they set in flowre The body colde they vvash a precious ointment on they powre If the water could any thing profite the deade it were better to make for them a great bath to plunge all their body in a great tub of Water and to wash them well for a good space then to sprinckle them so little For me séemeth that that manner of dooing is more proper for to kindle the fire of Purgatory if the Water doth descend thether then for to quench it And the same I wyll proue by authoritie and by examdle I wyll first proue it by the authoritie of many good Phisitions which say that when a man is very drie for want of drincke it is better for him to drincke a good draught at once then to sippe often For that same doth not quenche the heate that is in the body but kindleth it the more And to the ende that it doe not séeme that they speake that wythout reason they doe also alleadge the example of the Smythes the which I will bring foorth for my seconde argument which is infallible inasmuch as it is alwayes confirmed by experience For wée sée that when they woulde haue their coales burne well and to giue great heat they sprinckle thē with water which they haue alwayes ready wyth a little sprinckle or besome as the Priestes haue them in their holy water stocke There is yet an other reason for which I doe finde the manner of the Panims better and more lowable bicause that at the leastwise that shall serue for the dead for to proue whether
they bée dead or not For it chaunceth oftentimes through some disease that the spirite is so locked and enclosed in the body that man loseth altogether his breath in such sort that one can by no meanes perceiue it but iudgeth him to bée dead and so hée is deceiued By that meanes sometimes some haue bene buryed quicke The which thing ought very much to bée feared in all suffocations and chokings and chiefly of the matrice of women and also in the time of the pestilence or plague wherein many times it hath bene found that they haue brought to bée buryed those who were found aliue Wherefore it is not méete to bury any dead body to sodeine especially when hée dyeth sodeinly For y may very well sometime happen vnto man which we haue proued in some beastes namely in the Dormouse which haue bene found so fast of sléepe in the Winter that it is not possible to awake them As it hath ben many times proued in some of them who although they were cut a sunder in the middle did not wag nor stur vntill such time as they are put into hot sething water And to that ende and pourpose many Historiographers and namely Pliny maketh mention of one Attilius Auiola Lucius Lamia that after that their bodies were cast vpon the woode for to be burned after the custome of the auncient Romaines did stand right vp when they felt the heate of the fire and there taried stil For none could succour helpe them bicause y fire was kindled about them but were burned all aliue Thomas Those haue no néed to go into purgatory For they haue ben purged inough alredy Hillarius For y cause y panims dyd not burne the bodyes of those that dyed incontinently but kept them seauen dayes and washed them in hot water and bewayled and lamented them with a loude voyce many times as we doe vnto those that doe sounde or faynt when any fayntnesse of heart hath taken them And after when they haue bewayled them the last time they doe burne them the eight day and the nynthe day they bury their ashes For that cause doe they also celebrate the nyne dayes feaste for the soule of the dead Thomas If that which you speake off be true we do but a lyttle differ from them For our priests doe cry after them with so loud a voyce that if they be not deafe or altogether dead they would awake Hillarius There is no difference but that we are more foolish more mad then the Panims For the Panims do not crye after the dead but vntill they are burned and their ashes buryed But our Priestes doe crye after them ouer their Tombes and Sepulchers twentie thirtie fortie yea a hundreth yeares after their death and although they are altogether consumed to duste But I finde them a greate deale wiser and better aduised in that matter for that they doe sprinkle theire Sepulchers with water onely and not with wine as the Panims that did shed out great aboundaunce of wine and milke vppon the Sepulchers and more lyberally then those doe the holy water Thomas They were very fooles doe they thinke that that wine descendeth into Purgatory for to giue drincke to the soules of the dead or the bodyes that were in the Sepulchers HIllarius We are asmuch fooles if we do thinke that the holye water wherewith we sprinkle the Sepulchers and Churchyards doth descend into Purgatory for to quench and put out the fire For when the priest maketh his Asperges in the Masse and in casting the holy water vppon the people if he doe sée any that putteth not off his cappe or bonet for to receiue that holy coniured and charmed water he cryeth out vppon him and calleth him Lutherian and Hereticke Neuerthelesse if their holy water had such strength to penetrate and goe thorow into Purgatory it is meruayle if it cannot aswell pearce and goe thorow a cappe or bonet without putting it of the head Thomas From whence thinke you that that manner to sprinkle the Scpulchers with water did first come Hillarius Truly I know not excepte it be done in stéede that as the Panims after the burninge did sprinkle with water all those that were there present for to purifie them from the pollution and filth that they might receiue in approching nigh the dead with which they did thinke themselues defiled And in stéede that the Panims did purifie those that be alyue our Priestes will purifie those that bée dead and when they are vppon the earthe and vnder the earthe Or peraduenture that custome first came or tooke his beginninge for that the Panims did decke and beautifie their Sepulchers with goodly flowers Afterwards they sprinkeled them with water to make them continue the longer fresh and swéete The which is vsed at this day in the country of Bigore in the Citie of Bagnieres hard by the hills Pyrenes And amonge some other Christians aswel in Almaigne as in other countryes who doe put hats or garlands of flowers eyther of Baye or of Iuye within the béere vnder the body of the dead bicause they should kéepe a long time their verdure and swéetnesse But bicause peraduenture you may desire the witnesse of all these things which I haue now declared vnto you of the Panims I would y you should heare theÌ„ speake themselues as already before we haue done it translating word for woorde their Latine verse into Englishe rime to the end that they may kéepe the better their stile Marke well then the Prince and chiefe of the Poets touching the cryes and lamentations that they make after the dead speaking after this manner of the burying of Polidorus And holy bloud in basins brought we poure and last of all We shright and on his soule our last with great cryes out wee call And as touching the effusion of the wine the sprincklyng of the water and of flowers the which he hath comprised altogether marke what he sayth at the funeralls of Misenus â—Hen falne his sinders were and longer blase did not endure His reliques remaine of dust with wines they washed pure Then Choryney his bones in brasen coffin bright did close And sprinklyng vvater pure about his mates three times he goes And drops of sacred devv with Olyue palmes on them did shake And compasse blest them all and sentence last he sadly spake To fields of ioy thy soule and endelesse rest we doe betake And in an other place speaking of the Anniuersary that Aeneas did for his father Anchises sayth â—E from the counsel came with thousaÌ„ds thick in mightie throÌ„g Vnto his fathers tom be in mids of all his Princes strong Two bowles of blessed vvine in solemn guise he cast on grouÌ„d And milke in basins tvvayne about the tombe he poured round And tvvayne of sacred bloud then all the graue he spred layd With flovvres of purple hevves and thus at last
of Sardinia for that he asked money of Neâ—eida a noble woman for the sepulture and burying of hir daughter And for to make him more ashamed he propounded vnto him the example of the Panim Ephron and the honestie that he vsed towards Abraham touching his fielde for the buryall of his wife What shall we say friende Eusebius of those poore blynde men blynded thorow their auarice who so openly speake agaynst the worde of God and all Councells and Canons May not we rebuke and checke them with that that Tertulian rebuked the Gentiles and Panims saying The Gods that are most tributaryes and the greatest gyuers are to you the most holyest but for to speake better those that are the holyest are the greatest gyuers and trybutaryes Their maiestie is put to sale and valued and is estéemed after the gayne that it bryngeth Your begging Relygion goeth about in Tauerns Shops and Markets for to begge Ye demaunde money for the pauement and bourding of the Temple for the entring into the Temple and holy places It is not lawful for to know your Gods without money or rewarde for they are to be solde We cannot suffice or haue inoughe both for men and for your begging gods and lette vs not thinke that we are bounde to giue vnto any other then vnto those that aske it If Iupiter then will haue it lette him put foorth his hande For our mercy doth bestow more goodes throughout all the stréete then your relygion throughout all your Temples Hée declareth by those woordes that the auncient Christians bestowed not their goodes in buylding of Temples setting vp of Idolls and in offring to them sacrifices and in féeding of those Caphards false Prophets and in the meane season to suffer the poore to perishe with hunger about in the stréetes but doe bestow them in nourishing and féeding of those that were among them Therefore he complayneth in the name of all the Christians that sith that they haue bestowed already so much goodes for to nourishe and féede the poore they cannot prouide sufficient to giue so much vnto the Idolls and Gods of the Panims who doe neuer cease to aske and begge He thinketh in his iudgement that the Christians haue inough to doe to kéepe and prouide for the poore that are among them without bestowing so much cost and charge to keepe and prouide for the Gods of the Panims who are more costlye then the poore What will he then now saye if hée did sée the Priestes who are called Christians and Lieuetenants of Saint Peter to gather and receiue tribute of the Gods of Images of the quicke and the dead and to make Gods and men the quicke and the deade tributaries and to compell the poore Christians to maynetayne and keepe so rychly theire false Gods and Prophets the bones and the carcases of the dead and to be at such great charge and expences vppon the dead and in the meane time doe suffer the poore members of Iesus Christ and the lyuely Images of God to perish with hunger May he not rightly say that all the Christian Relygion is no other thing now but a very beggery And the Gods that are there of the beggers doe neuer any other thinge but begge and that the deade dâ—e spende more then those that be alyue Hillarius These are daungerous beggers For they are lyke vnto those lusty and stout beggers who will chide and beate people when they will not giue them that they would haue and sometimes they doe cutte Merchaunts throates At the beginning they doe séeme but as though they did begge And therefore they haue found out so many abuses for to make their begging the better worth and for to still theire scrippe the better Afterwardes in the ende they make men to giue by force But among all their inuentions they neuer had any that brought them more gayne then the God Pluto and his furnaces of Purgatorie For there they doe make the Philosophicall stone and by those doe impouerish all the whole worlde as the Alcumistes deceiue those who do muse after their furnaces But these are more craftye and subtile For they do enrich themselues with other mens pouertie and the Philosophicall stone is alwayes good for them And if God would not haue had that the fire shoulde haue begunne in those furnaces as Theophilus hath sayd all the whole worlde would haue gone to ruyne and there woulde nothing haue bene lefte Thomas I haue desired of longe time to vnderstande how that fire hath begunne there by what meanes and by whom But you haue not yet declared it vnto me Hillarius I am content to tell vnto you First that that I doe vnderstande and know and who haue bene the mouers of sedition which were the causes of that great offence and afterwardes Theophilus shall tell you his aduice which I doubte not but that it is better then mine Sithens that Paradise and Hell were so shutte vp and that there arryued dayly suche a greate number of soules in Purgatory and haue bene kepte there so longe time there is no doubt but that it must néedes be that the fire was very great for to kéepe such a rosting and for to warme and make hot the kitchin and for to seethe the potte of so many Priestes and Moonkes who are dispersed and scattered abreade throughout all Christendome to so great a number there is no Arithmetician how cunning soeuer he be in his Aâ—te which can caste or number them And yet neuerthelesse all the fire that was in theire kitchin begun of Purgatory For they neyther their family which is not lyttle doe eate no meate but that which is boyled and sodden in that fire For you oughte to vnderstande that forasmuch as the number of y soules do become very many and that Purgatory was the better furnished so much the more greater did the fire kindle in their kitchin For the reuenew was very great Wherfore it must néedes be also y the trayne did encrease augment and that after Requiem one should sing Gaudeamus And y more they did sée y fire to burn y more they did blow it To be short al weÌ„t by y disshes They did cast the house out of the windows There was no more question but to blow the coale to reioyce and tryumphe insomuch that they themselues did make the fire Thomas I doe not yet very well vnderstande your meaning except you doe speake more playnly Hillarius I meane that they are fedde and nourished so fatte and bigge about that kitchin and haue inuented so many fables and lyes for to mayntayne and augment that fire that they haue vncouered and bewrayed themselues and also haue done such wicked and most execrable things that whether men woulde or no they haue bene constrayned to open their eyes to know that they were but deceiuers and seducers of the people and that all their doctrine was nothing but fables
they cannot agrée together and it is impossible that the one can endure continue with the other sith that the one purgeth without money through the onely grace of God and the other is an insatiable goulfe which melteth consumeth all the golde siluer of the world neither purgeth it the sinnes but maketh all those guiltie of hell fire that séeke in it their purgation Hillarius I doe compte him to be foolish mad that had rather consume and wast all his substaunce for to buy hell then to receiue Paradise fréely which shal cost him nothing Thomas In hearinge you speake I am greatly estonied to see how men haue chaunged their nature For they do all willingly runne to the best chepe there is none but bad rather receiue good merchaundise if it coste nothinge then to buy the bad very deere or poyson for to kill in steede of bread which ought to nourish which shall be presented and offered vnto him without money Theophilus And yet neuerthelesse wée doe sée the same put in practise euery day wherein we may well know how God hath taken away the sences and vnderstanding of men who doe take such great pleasure to destroy themselues and to lose both their bodies soules and goodes For they are mad to runne after the priests for to buy death and refuse life which is presented vnto thē fréely and thanckfully by Iesus Christ Hillarius I beléeue it well behold the cause wherefore al these collyars and kitchin men who doe liue vpon that fire haue endcuoured themselues as much as lyeth in them to quench out altogether the fire of the gospel of Iesus Christ which quencheth putteth out theirs bicause that it is more vehement and more violent and consumeth it into Asshes Thomas Is it then true that it is quenched euen as you say and that there remaineth nothing whole Theophilus There remaineth yet some chamber or cabine which are not yet all burned But sithence that once the fire of Iesus Christ hath begun there to kindle it will not cease vntill such time as it hath consumed it all into Asshes for that is a fire which none can quench Hillarius I do much meruaile that they doe not all runne for water to cast vpon it Whereto serueth their holy water wherefore doe they not no we make it to shew his vertues as well as against the lightninges tempestes when they coniure them Theophilus They do cleane contrary For euery one runneth to the fire to the fagots to the brimstone to the lights to the bellowes for to make it the more to burne And they are so hot after it that there is neyther King Prince Lord Bourgis Merchaunt or Labourer whom they do not prouoke to blow their fire to cast on fagots in such sort that it is become so great that men doo sée in many places that it is like to consume those that bée aliue Thomas Can they quench it by that meanes Theophilus You are not deceiued hath the fire of men vsed to quench the fire of God No but they doe kindle it dayly more and more Hillarius I know the cause wherefore they doe it They do greatly feare least those Lutherians and heretickes should not be dampned and that they should not go into hell sith that they denie the Purgatory and that they will not enter therefore they woulde make them to féele it in this world and to purge them from their sinnes to put them in Paradise against their wils They doe well declare thereby that they differ from the Persians who will not burne the dead bodyes as the Greekes Latines do bicause they hold the fire as a God and they thinck that it séemeth that it was much vnséemely for his maiestie to defile himselfe with dead bodies and to nourish him with flesh But these héere do giue him none other meat but do sacrifice to him men as the Idolatres dyd God Moloch Pluto Saturnus and dyd nourishe them wyth mans fleshe But one maye replye vnto mée and saye that they dyd vnto him that honour to nourishe hym wyth lyue flesh Theophilus I am not so much amazed to sée them doo that as I am to sée how they make the princes lords their hangmen putting into their hands those whom they would haue to be executed Hillarius They shewe themselues to bée the successors of those who sayde vnto Pylate speaking of Iesus Christe we haue a lawe and by our lawe he ought to dye But it is not lawfull for vs to put any man to death And therefore they praye ayde of the seculer power the whiche men dare not refuse I doe thincke that many Princes Lordes doe feare least it happen vnto them as it happened vnto Nicanor the preuost of Alexander against the Bactrianians The Hircanians and Bactrianians did vsually giue vnto the dogges those that were very olde and did thincke it to be the best burying For that cause the common people nourished vp common dogs for that purpose and the riche men tame and demesticall dogges for to serue them for that purpose And therefore they called them in their language the dogges of Sepulchres or graue dogges Then when Nicanor was come vnto the Bactrianians hée endeuoured himselfe to reforme and correct that vile custome and execrable crime But he could neuer take order to reforme it but to the contrary as witnesseth sainct Hierome they did rise againste him in such sort that he had almost lost his kingdome Now if we will consider the thinges and way them well what are in these daies our Priests and Moonkes who do liue vpon carrion as the dogs of the Sepulchres doo For that cause I thincke that Rosset the Poet of Sauoy called the dogges the Chanons of mount Faucon as I haue heard him oftentimes say in his lessons Sith thē they haue vsed to eat mans flesh it is no meruaile though men do feare them that they féede them deintely as they doe in Hircania For there is not almost any great house but hath his domestical dogs besides those that are kept fed commonly in euery towne village Theophilus I doe much doubt that the same that they are afraide off will happen vnto them sith the they wil set no good order according to the power that God hath giuen vnto them I do greatly feare that in the ende those dogs wil dououre thē altogether For they haue already wel begun Hillarius Me thincks that they take the Pope for Moloch Pluto or Saturne whō men cannot appaise without sacrificing vnto them men The Pope woulde bée called our holy father but that is such a father as Saturne was who did eat his owne children if the Poets haue not lyed but yet Rea his wife hid them from him and kept them the he should not eate them But the court of Rome the papisticall Church who would be called our holy mother Church doth
afterwards shee was conuerted to your law and the most part of all hir parents and kinsfolke Wherefore the Priestes should haue lost all that Hillarius And therefore it is not without cause that they make such hast of offerings but without the same they make no hast Theophilus It should séeme to those that heare thē read vpon their bookes the they haue great pittie compassion of those captiue soules sith that they had rather delay the honor that they would do vnto the saints their office then the same of the dead the solace comforte that they would giue vnto them But the practise of their doctrine and experience declareth vnto vs the contrary For hée that will not giue them readye money in theire handes without all question those poore soules should neuer haue any helpe of them or at the least it shal be but lyttle and they shall tarry their leasure And so by that meanes the poore shal be alwayes miserable and cannot enter into Paradise for want of money if there be such auarice in Paradise as is among them Hillarius Some men saye they haue hearde their lamentations and that you doe wronge vnto them and that they are not so pittilesse as you make them For in singing for the dead they lament so piteously that men would say that they did wéepe and mourne as if they had buryed their father and mother But it is easie to bée séene that they are not so sorrowfull as they séeme they are But that those are the teares of the Crocodile who weepeth when he would eate and deuoure men Wherefore the more I beholde them so much the truer do I finde the aunswere of him of whome one asked what kinde of people doe lyue now a dayes most ioyfully and fréely vppon the earth and who haue the greatest franchises and priuiledges Thomas What aunswered he Hillarius That they were the Priests and the Phistcians For the Priestes are alwayes ioyfull and merry as you heare them sing at the burialls when all the other do wéepe and lament The Phisicians also haue great lyberties and franchises For it is lawfull for them to kill men not onely without receiuing punishment for it but which is more they haue and receiue money for their labour Thomas The hangmen are asmuch priuiledged Hillarius You say true I am abashed that Plinie hath not ioyned them together when he did speake of the priuiledge of the Phisicians But it seemeth vnto me that they ought yet to haue wages of the Priests For they doe not neglect and fore slow their businesse but doe bring goodly hydes into their tanne fatte Theophilus Yea the barbarous and ignorant Emperiques and Arabians which ought to agrée with them and the Theologians Sophistes But they cannot gette much with the cunning Phisicians and which are of a good conscience Hillarias And therefore me thinkes that those cannot well agrée with the Priestes For the Priestes desire none other thing but death And the good Phisicians doe not trauayle but to driue death away to giue health and to kéepe and mayntayne the lyfe of men Thomas There is nothing truer then that thou sayst For I my selfe haue hearde them how they doe reioyce of their poore parishieners and say the one to the other in goyng to the tauerne Let vs go drincke vpon the first skinne that will come Theophilus What meane they by that Hillarius I do vnderstand their prouerbe But I am not much abashed although you do not vnderstād it for it is not in the Chiliades of Erasmus They compare the poore people to the beastes of whom they are the boutchers and flears as they themselues confesse by their prouerbe And neuerthelesse Eusebius is angry when we do name them by the names that they themselues haue giuen them For what other thing doth their prouerbe signifie but as the boutchers and flears haue the profite and gaine of the skinne and hyde of the beastes whom they flea Euen so also haue they the profite of the dead bodyes of which they flea I haue heard them my selfe howe they reioyce when they heare that there is any rich man sicke and in daunger of death and howe they saye let vs make good chéere For we shall haue by and by héere a good skinne for shoes and for the tanne fatte There is neither Tanner nor Cordwaytter so wealthy as those are For all the other knowe not to make their profit but of the skinnes hides of beasts But these héere do occupy the skinnes of men And although that they be vnprofitable for any woorke neuerthelesse they doe make of them more gaine then of any other insomuche that al the gaine that the Tanners do with their marroquino and vntanned hides and the Cordwamers with their shoes is nothing in comparison of that whiche these doe get with their trade Thomas I assure thée that I doe know a man at Couppet which is besides Geneun who hath made this reproche vnto the Priests of the same place and said vnto them Ye haue dronken vpon my skin but you shal pay y shot if ye wil for mo For I will not disburse any penny or farthing Hillarius Wherfore said he that Thomas Bicause that he was sicke of long time during his sicknesse the Priests hoping that he would haue dyed in short time went to the Tauerne to drinck vpon his skinne But he deceiued them did not to them the pleasure they looked for For he died not but is yet aliue to this day Hillarius The dead hath then deceiued mocked them as wel as the olde men who do spend all their goods vnder hope that they shall dye in short time afterwards as men say were constrained to go beg at the gates doores desiring to giue some almose vnto those poore people whom death hath begiled These Priests haue as great occasion to complaine of him as the Curate had who as men saye complained of his Parishoners sayinge what would you haue me do my Parishioners you will neither offer nor yet dye Whereof do ye thincke that I can lyue haue you determined the I should dye with hunger doe you not thincke Eusebius the one may say the same of them that Seneca hath written of Aruncius and Aterius and of other like who do make it an occupaciō science to purchase after heritages to watch after testaments saying that they haue the same desire which the Marrons had those who make it an occupacion to bury the dead bodies to furnish prepare that which is necessary for the burials funerals For the greater that the number of the dead bodies are so much is the game the greater both of the one and the other And therefore saith he Those the do make it an occupatiō to bury the dead know not of whom they ought to desire death But these hunters watchers after testaments
bée not sadde For that should be Stoique like and of men he woulde make stones and blockes of woode without any affection But the doctrine of the Gospell importeth not the same For although that the Gospell of Iesus Christ doth correct and mortefie the wicked affections of the flesh yet neuerthelesse it depriueth nor spoileth man from all humaine affection but amendeth onely that which is vicious thorow the naturall corruption procéeding from the sinne of man It is impossible that we can be wout dolour sorrow although wée would when we do sée the afflictions and miseries of our brethren béeing of our flesh and bloud The holy Scripture hath not condemned the sorrow and heauinesse that Abraham conceiued for the death of Sara his wife Isaac of his mother Ioseph of his father Iacob The Disciples of S. Iohn of Iesus Christ of s Steuen of s Iames of the teares the they haue shed of the sorrow that they made For man cannot be man without béeing moued to pittie and compassion séeinge the calamities of others féeling the damage that he himselfe receiueth Therefore S. Paul speaketh very sharply when he sayd that the faithfull shoulde not bée sorrowfull as the Panims and Infidels who haue no hope of the resurrection Sith then that he condemneth the dooinges of the Panims we ought not to kepe them except we would be rather counted Panims then Christians It ought then to suffice vs to bury honestly the bodies of the dead and to put them in the earth as in their bed tarrying and lookinge for the comming of Iesus Christ and the generall resurrection of all fleshe Therefore the Christians doe call the place that is appointed for their buriall Cimiterium bycause that it is as the bed couch and dortoire of the faythfull that be dead And therefore it is good to haue some certeine honest and comely place as a common repository of the Christians and publike witnesse of the resurrection of the flesh For we should doe great wronge vnto our bodyes which are the temple of God in whom God dwelleth and which haue bene consecrated and made holy through the bloude of Iesus Christ vnto his honour and glory and dedicated vnto the immortall inheritage of his kingdome if wée doe cast them to dogges fowles and wilde beastes as she carryon of wilde and brute beastes as though they should liue no more after they were dead and bée no pertaker of the immortalitie no more then beastes Their bodies ought to be more déere vnto vs and more ioyned and knit vnto vs then their apparell as Basile witnesseth For that cause the Patriarches and true seruauntes of God were praised and namely Thoby not for that they caused singing praiers offering for the dead and in spending their substaunce without necessitie vpon the dead But bicause they haue deliuered them againe to the earth their mother from whom they came out and that they haue so honoured them by their burying without sparing that which was necessary for the bodyes of the seruaunts of God for whom he was glorified And the Panims themselues were greatly afraide to suffer those to lye vnburied who haue liued honestly and did not depriue but those who thorow dispaire did kill themselues as yet vnto this day it is ordained by the Canons But the Panims oftentimes doe but cut off the hand that committed the fact iudgeing it vnworthy to be buried with the body to whom it hath done violence Also in some places they do punish with such insamy those that commit sacriledge and that kill their fathers and mothers and others that haue committed such execrable crimes notwithstanding that the Hebrewes after that they had satisfied to Iustice buryed them and would not suffer that the buriall should be denied not to the enimies as Iosephus witnesseth And the Lord by his Prophet declareth vnto the tyrant of Babilon that he shall haue no place to be buryed in And threateneth Ioachim that he shall be buried among the Asses bicause of his infidelitie and tyranny Hillarius The Panims had some appearaunce to doe that vsed not such crueltie as our Priests who for default of money do refuse the buriall not onely vnto the olde folke but also to the little Infāts And how many times doth it happen that they haue excōmunicated some poore labourer or busbādmā for twētie or thirtie soubs yea for thrée if he do die being so excōmunicated by thē hauing not wherwith to pay they haue denied him the place to be buried with the other christiās or els he must buy it déerly And yet neuerthelesse there Canons deny not that Churchyard but to those who are no Christiās or who do kill thēselues or to those the haue ben killed in doing some wicked acte as adultry larceny murder Iewish playes I am greatly abashed where they we haue had the vnderstāding S. Paul Moses do forbid vs expresly to be cōfirmable to the imitatiōs of the Panims Idolatrers it that in dispite of them wée haue not taken any other myrrour nor haue studied in any other thing For what difference is there betwéene our funerals and buryals theirs Haue not we the Bels in stéede of the Minstrels that the Panims had And euen as they had the Minstrelles that were best allowed according to the estate and condition of the persons so haue we the Bels Priests Monks When there dyeth any Prince or noble man or rich man that hath well wherewith to pay they will bury him with the trumpet with many torches with great pomp procession with a great company of Minstrels and of men and women for to singe wéepe and lament about him as it doth wel appeare by the discription that Virgile made of the burying and funerals of Pallas the sonne of king Euander sayinge that after that hée was knowen to be dead in the Citie and that the Citizens dyd vnderstand that men dyd bringe the body and that it was already at hand did as followeth Th'archadians most sodeinly vnto the gates then came Holding the torches funerals already for the same According to their olde fashion their guise and eke custome And euery one his torch did light that serued in that rome Marching so well before the herse by order on a row That there vvas none among them all out of order did show Giuing such great a shining light the vvay the vvhich they went With the dead corps pomp so great vvhich to his graue him sent That all a farre and round about the fieldes that are full faire Did giue such light and seruent heat which flamed in the aire And in an other place speaking of the wéepings lamentations done ouer the dead saith Euen to the heauens assended is of men the dolefull cry And eke the sound of the trumpets lamenting pitiously And hesids all these things the rich men were
wee ought not to doubte but that that faithe hath imprinted suche a crosse and such a signe and marke in our hearts and bodies the the diuel dareth not to approch nor come nigh them And if that same is not sufficient there is none other after our death which can serue vs Furthermore sith that God hath giuen vnto vs his Angels for to serue kéepe defend vs let vs not feare that as they haue caâ—ted the soule of Lazarus into Abrahams bosome and haue kepte and defended the body of Moses from the power of the diuell and did striue and fight for it against them but that they wil be also assisting vnto all true faithfull people for to kéepe their bodies soules according to the charge and commission that they haue of God and that God himselfe woulde bury them rather as he hath buried Moses then to suffer that Sathan shoulde haue domination or rule ouer them Wherfore I do greatly feare that the bodies and reliques which the idolatrous christians do worshippe and honour vnder the name and title of the saincts saintes are not the true bodies and reliques of the Saincts and true seruants of God but rather those of some malefactory or wicked man and abhominable before god For it euer any bodyes were lefte vnder the power of the olde Serpent and of the Diuell those be they of whom men haue made Idols which haue ben set vp for relicks for to be adored worshipped which haue bene the occasion among the Christian people of the greatest Idolatry the euer was in the worlde Wherefore it is most lykest to be true that the diuell maketh himselfe to be worshipped and honoured by the bodyes in which he dwelled and of which he was serued during their lyfe then in those whiche haue bene the Temple of the lyuing God and which haue serued to his honour and glory forsaking altogether the diuell and his seruice The Iewes and Cabalysts haue estéemed those purifications and ceremonyes about the dead of which we haue spoken to be necessary to their bodyes bicause that the Magicians and coniurers haue vsed to steale them awaye or to take certayne members from them for to serue for their witchcraftes to make them instruments of the diuell as it appeareth by the witnesse of many auncient writings and historyes Hillarius Lucan declareth it very playnely describing the Witchcraftes and Sorceryes of Erichtho For that same cause the custome was in Thessalia the which hath alwayes had the name to be full of Enchaunters Witches and Coniurers that when any man was dead a certeine Seriaunt or common Heralde cryed with a loude voyce in the open stréete that if there were any man which woulde kéepe a dead body lette him come foorth and bargaine and agrée for the price Thomas Wherefore did they so haue the dead bodyes in Thessaly vsed to run away or whether they were more daungerous then in other countryes Hillarius Thou mayst well knowe that the deade bodyes can no more byte any man and that they are in an euil case for to runne away sith the they must be carryed to be buryed their seete stretched out right before But I thinke that thou hast not forgotten that which we haue spoken of the Panyms how that they doe not bury their dead by and by and the causes wherefore And therefore the Thessalians vsed to keepe their dead al the night vntil the day that they burned their bodies and buried their ashes bicause they had that opinioÌ„ that the sorcerers did come in the night and did byte their faces and dismember them for to serue them for their enchauntements and witchcraftes and for to doe the same they transforme and chaunge them selues into the forme and likenes of what beast they list sometime into the likenes of birdes some time like dogs or myce yea into the likenes of very flyes and afterwards doe flye and come into the houses and enter so subtilly and secretly that none cane perceiue it And when they are entred within they thorowe their enchauntements doe make those that keepe them fall into a slepe afterwards they doe vnto the dead bodies what it pleaseth them For that cause the parents and frinds of the dead did hire kéepers for a péece of money for to watch all the night by the dead bodie without sléeping any thing at all not so much as to winke or to turne their face here and there but to haue theyr eyes alwayes fixed vpon the dead body After that they haue founde out keepers whiche will take vppon them that charge they deliuer the body vnto them in charge hauing witnesses how they haue deliuered it all whole and sound afterwards they shut them into a chamber with the dead body and a lampe full of Oyle for to giue them light vntill the morning and water within vessels And if he that kéepeth it do not take good héede of the body the next day whatsoeuer is wanting or diminished of the dead body that he hath euil and negligently kept hee is bounde to restore and recompence it of his owne proper face Thomas These people were verye fooles to beléeue such follyes Who hath written the same Hillarius A good doctor called Apuleus whiche saith that he hath done that office himselfe Thomas Truely thou hast very well founde it Peraduenture he hath séene the same whilest that he was chaunged into an Asse Hillarius I do confesse that the same is a great dreaming But do not the christians almost the like doe not they also watche the dead bodies with a candle and holy water Are they afrayd that they would runne away or least the Cattes or Mice should come and gnawe the féete and the face of the dead or whether they are afraid of witches and coniurers or that the diuell shoulde carry them away as one hath written of some whose bodies are not yet toune if God hath giuen power vnto the diuels ouer the dead bodies the water candles fire nor incense shall not make them afrayd nor yet the witchecraftes and coniurations except they will say that they do vse charme against charme and that theirs is more stronger then those of the enchauntors Theophilus It is not now néede that they take such paines for to driue awaye the diuels or the socerers from them For their was neuer forcerer coniurer nor enchauntor that abused more vile and shamefully the bodies of men nor to the greater dishonoure of God and hurte of all the Christianitie then the Priestes and Moonks who in steade of the coniuring that is to say diuination by the dead that the Panyms and Infidels haue exercised and vsed they haue set vp erected a necrolatrie that is to say an adoration and worshipping of the dead and the most greatest Idolatrie that euer was vpon the earth And haue made the bodies of men to serue the diuell haue made him to be worshiped
sicke and that he had some hope of lyfe he watched fasted and prayed making request vnto God for the childe and dyd lye flat on the earth and during the space of seuen dayes all those of his house no not his auncients and counsellers could not make him to lye on a bed nor to aryse vp from the earth nor to eate nor drinke with them vntyll such tyme he vnderstoode that the childe was dead the which thing none of his seruaunts durst tell him off thinking that he would haue bene mernaylously sadde and pensise after that hée should bée aduertised of his deathe sith that all the time of his sickenesse whilest that there was yet some hope of lyfe he alwayes wepte and lamented But it happened cleane contrarye For as soone as hée knewe for a certeynetie that the childe was dead he arose from the earth and washed and anoynted himselfe and chaunged his apparell and went into the house of the Lord and prayed and after came to his own house and bad that they should set meate before him and he did eate And made greater cheere then before whereoff his seruaunts were much abashed and asked him what is this that thou hast done vnto whom he aunswered while the childe was a lyue I fasted and wepte For I thus thought who can tell whether God will haue mercy on me that the childe may lyue But now séeing it is dead wherefore should I fast Can I bring him agayne any more I shall goe to him but hée shall not come agayne to me Dauid teacheth vs a good lesson and learneth vs to praye the one for the other while wée bée in this lyfe and to make prayers vnto God and to lament and mourne for our bretheren and neighbours whilest they are alyue whether they be in health or sicke prosperitie or aduersitie and not after they be dead For whilst that they be sicke we ought to pray for them that it would please God to pardon their sinnes and ours to giue vnto them health and to suffer them a while to be with vs and comfort vs to serue moreouer vnto his church if he know that the same is most expedient for the glory of his name and our profite For whilest that man is sicke we know not certeynly what God meaneth to boe with him We know very well that his wil cannot be but good that he wil dispose all things to the best But we cannot know perticulerly wythout a singuler reuelation whether that it be better that the sick person doe lyue or dye both for him and for vs Wherefore we ought to pray and weepe for him whilest that we can ayde and helpe him and that he is yet alyue with vs in the which we haue place to repent to obteyn pardon for our sinnes and we ought chiesly to bewayle the poore sinners whom we see to goe to perdition as Samuel bewept Saul séeing him forsaken of God And Sainct Paule the Corinthians whom he law to be deteyned and kept in sinnes if it would please God to haue mercy vpon them But sith that God hath once declared vnto vs his will we must holde our selues vnto the same and to take no more care for those whome God hath called vnto himselfe from among vs but we ought onely to aduise and sludie how we should dispose and order our selues for to follow them after the example of Dauid Wherevnto agreeth very wel the doctrine of Daynct Iames who admonusheth the faithfull if any of them bee diseased to call vnto them the true Priests of the Gospell and Elders of the congregation for to comfort them with the worde of God and for to praye for them that they may haue the forgiuenes of their sinnes and to comfort and procure all that they can for the health of their bodyes and soules and for their health and thorow prayers and oyntments and other lyke things which God hath giuen vnto the primitiue Church the which hath receyued the gyfte to doe miracles and in the which the Apostles did miraculously heale the diseased Anoynting them with oyle not after the manner as the Papisticall Priestes doe which doe anoynt the diseased not thorow the hope that they haue to heale them For if they did thinke that they should heale them they would not anoynt them Hillarius They would not doe so For they should loose much nor they should haue so many fatte hydes Theophilus For that same cause they call that vnction extreme and the last sacrament And they giue it not for the health of the body nor for to heale the diseased as the Apostles did nor to that intent as Saint Iames hath written but did giue it for the health of the soule as thoughe their holy oyle could penetrate in the same and that the haly Ghost and forgiuenesse of sinnes wertied vnto the oyle I know not whereto the vnction can serue for the poore diseased such as the do vse sith that thei haue no promises of god that the gift of miracles is not giuen vnto thē as vnto the Apostles to that primitiue church they do none other thing but read the Psalter babble it in a strange language vnto the sicke person of which he receiueth no instruction nor any consolation at all Hillarius If thou know not wherto that vnction serueth I will tell thée First that is a witnesse for to proue that in that same they are the Apes of the Apostles for to counterfet their workes and myracles as they counterfetted those of Iesus Christ in the Baptisine of young children Afterward it serueth vnto the diseased for to make them hope to be healed as the comming of the hangman vnto the théeues when they doe sée him For they know right wel that he is the messenger of death So when the poore patients séeing the Priestes comming with their Creame bores Dyle and Drogues they may well thinke that men accompt them for deade and their time is come For such Phisitians haue not accustomed to come nor to bring their Triacle but at the very houre that the sicke person is abandoned and forsaken of other Phisitians They may iudge that their hangman is come who careth nor for the soule but requireth onely the body and the spoylyng thereoff Theophilus There is nothing truer Wherefore they cannot alledge Saint Iames for their defence nor also the auncient doctors whom they would take for bucklers for al their matters They make a great accompt of Denis who hath written the celestiall and ecclesiasticall Hierarchies saying that that is Saynct Denis of Athens who was conuerted by the preaching of Saynt Paul which is not lyke to be true For the stile of those bookes sinelleth not lyke vnto that of the Apostles nor of their tyme Furthermore Eusebius in his ecclesiasticall history maketh mention so dilygently of the bookes of Denis Bishoppe of Corinth and neuer maketh any mention of those of Denis
which were common to all the dead according to the viuersitie of the countries nations as the case requireth the person which dyed they had other feasts Annirersaries more perticular either for one or for many as the Greekes had a custome to celebrate the xbj day of the moneth of September the Dbsequies Anniuersaries of those which dyed in the war fighting against the Persinns as witnesseth Plutarch Also he witnesseth the at Rome they did the like in the moneth of November for the Gaulois Frechmen Greekes which haue bene buried in the place which was called the Bullock market And Gicero Titus Liuius do offeÌ„times make inention of such feast dayes of the Panims and good déeds Theophilus He hath learned by those things euen as we do sée dayly the lilte practise in our Popes prelates of the Church who haue alwayes added ceremonies vpon ceremonies superstition vpon superstition Idolatry vpon Idolatry haue dayly augmented them sith that they are once begun insomuch that it is not possible that they can procéede any further For we do surmount excéed already long since all the auncient Idolaters in Idolatry Wherfore we haue better occasion to complaine then S. Augustine had in his time which differed much from ours And yet neuerthelesse he did greatly complaine of the multitude of ceremonies and superstitions with which alreadye the Church was then ouercharged corrupted Therefore said he our Lord Iesus Christ willing to giue vnto his church a great liberty would not make it to be subiect vnto many ceremonies but onely vnto a little certeine number of sacraments And yet neuerthelesse it is nowe so much charged that the condition of the Iewes who were vnder the shadowes and figures and the seruitude and bondage of the lawe is more tollerable then ours and chiesly in that that the ceremonies which they had were giuen vnto them of God but those which haue ben brought into the Cstristtan Church are nothing els but mans presumptions inuentions of presumptious and ouerbolde men Hillarius Truely he should haue now other occasion to write the same if he did sée the traine that the Papistes doe holde as well towardes the quicke as towardes the dead wee may assuredly affirme that Pluto was no lesse the authour of the Dbsequies Funerals Dbites Legates Anniuersaries and other like things which are at this daye vsed among the Christians as among the Panims For Pluto is the God of riches And what hath bene the first cause and firste foundation of all these thinges and of Purgaforye and of those dependaunces and the occasion of so much augmenting increasing of them but the insatiable auarice couetousnesse of the great Romish Pluto of his Mercuries other like Gods which are ioyned with him For if we by iust occasion do cal him Pluto we haue no lesse occasioÌ„ to compare both him his vnto Mercurie whose office is among the Gods to lead bring the soules in those Plutonical infernal regions kingdomes after that they be seperated from the body He hath to dooe now in heauen now in the earth and by by in hell The which thing was one of the causes wherfore the Panims did paint his picture Image hauing thrée heads In steed whereoff our Pluto hath his thrée crownes for to declare that he hath power in heauen earth hel and that he holdeth the place of Hecate vnto whom the Idolaters do attribute thrée formes and such a power the which the Pope doth attribute vnto himselfe altogether For he is mounted and ascended into such arrogancie and pride that hée dare take vpon him to commaunde the Angelles and the Dyuels and to stretch foorth his hande euen to the hells for to pull from thence the soules and those which are thether descended but it is after that sort as Orpheus went to seke his wife Eurydice Pollux his brother Castor Theâ— seus and Pyrothus who rauished Proserpina Dr as Hercules descended thether for to bring away Cerberus For I doubt not but that these poeticall fables do containe as much truth as that which that Pope would make vs to beléeue And I beléeue that his Musitions Singers haue no more tertue then the Harpe of Orpheus for to drawe the soules from Purgatory But he hath a Harpe vpon which hée playeth better then euer Orpheus did For by the meanes of the same he eateheth euery thing nothing escapeth him but y he bringeth al things vnder his wing Wherfore we may rightly attribute vnto him thrée heads as vnto Mercurie Cerberus thrée bodies as vnto Geryon sith that he hath such credit with the celestial infernal gods that he coÌ„maundeth that. Angels of heauen that they bring vnto the ioyes of paradise the soule of him who for his pardons goeth to Rome that he be deliuered from Purgatory And he sayth yet moreouer we wil not that the paine of hel be any thing at al inioyned vnto such a persoÌ„ And it is not sufficient for him to vsurps such authoritie seigniory vpon hyn but he doth also giue that power vnto those which do receiue his Cromade â—o deliuer from Purgatory thrée or foure soules yea such as they will themselues Thomas Is it possible that he is so shamelesse ouerbold Hillarius The Bull of Pope Clement may beare witnes of it the which is kept yet at this day well sealed with seales of lead at Vienna Limoges Poictiers in the coffers of that priuiledges It is very true that the SorboÌ„nists of Paris would not allow it but condempned it But yet neuerthelesse it must néeds be that it must passe by their hands He hath also a great many other proverties in him for the which one may compare both him his vnto Mercurie who was in like manner holden accompted of the Panims for the God of gaine of merchants deceiuers hers théeues And therfore they painted him with a serip did set his Image in the middle of the market before the gates of the houses for to kéepe them for to driue away the other théeues bicause that he was the greatest Prince of others For did the earth bring foorth euer such deceiuers abusers and liers such merchaunts and more couetous of filthy gaine They may well cary the scriâ— For that is the cabin from which do come foorth all these lawes canons decrees for to yet the money both of the liuing and also of the dead And hee caryeth not the key wythout a cause for to open and shut the gates and to empty the coffers and scrippes and to take awaye the praye from other théeues of whome hée is the Capitayne At the leastwise none can denfe but that the doctrine of the Panims as muche as concerneth the dead is more reasonable then that of the Papistes For althoughe that the Theologians of the
massy But when the auncients doe speake of the shadowes of those that bee dead they vnderstand not properly their soules but their visiōs and fantafficall figures which do watch about the Sepulchers and do shew themselues as shadowes in the forme and likenes of bodies which yet neuerthelesse were not vanished away when 〈◊〉 did come nigh them and when one did thinke to tonche them as a shadow and smoke Thomas I doe verily beleeue that those doe not much diminish the meates Eusebius Also one may well knowe that there is now none so foolish that doth thinke that the soules do eate the offrings But we doe cary them at their feast dayes for to nourish the seruants of God thorow whose prayers by reason of the Masses good déedes that they do vpon such dayes for them they haue deliuerance and rest Hillarius That is the cause wherefore their Bing pluto Neoptolemus Eacus Minos Radamantus that criminall Iudges of the Infernall courte and of those Plutonicall Regions do open vnto them the charters prysons of Purgatory do giue vnto them fielde playes and pastimes and leaue to play a litle as the Schoole maisters do giue vnto their scollers for to take some recreation pastime euen as Mantuan witnesseth saying As ofte as men their Sacrafice By almes or seasts do make Or els by prayers they do thinke the needies thirst to slake To bellies rage and pamperd flesh a brydell they do set And to the gods they do poure out their prayers from heart yfet By meanes whereoff the furious rage of windy force is layd For gods thereto agreed hath which makes them well apayd By vse whereoff and gods good grace they haue both mirth and ioye And saue them from the hellish rage that doth their soules anoye It were good reason that they should haue at the least once or twice in the yeare some good Aristotolicall dayes for to delite and refresh themselues and for to bring them out of these hot and burning furnaces I pray thee thinke what ioye they do make when that they feele perceiue their feast to drawe nigh in whiche they looke to haue some libertie and to finde some little grace and fauoure of their king Pluto by whom I meane him of whom the Frenche Poet hath written after this manner in his hell It is the holy name of Pope that hellish hounds imbrace And vvith his stole can cull them in vvinne them to his grace But fearest thou not that monster great that doth affirme say That hell to ope and also shut he both them can and may Yea he it is by scorching heate that martir can the soules And thousand thousands ryd he can from heate of parching coals I think that then he holdeth his keyes in the right hand for to let loose a little these poore soules that they should laugh and bee merry if that be true which a holy father preached at Bordeaux saying and affirming that when one offereth for the dead and that the soules do heare the sounde of the money which falleth ting ting in the basin or the bore prepared to receiue the offring they receiue so great ioy and do beginne somuch to laugh that they do make a noyse ha ha ha hi hi hi. What wilt thou more should one spoyle and robbe them of their laughing Thomas And did that holy father laugh so in the pulpit Hillarius Thou doest well know that the play had bene nothing worth otherwise and it behoueth that a good player of iests and games do reprcsente and make all the lestures and partes of the parsonnes whose parte he playeth And wilt thou know whether he spake it in carnest or not I beléeue that hée did sweare that it was so by his brest by the faith of his Pricsthoode and by the Masse hée song this daye and the God that hee had eaten But for to returne unto the bankettes of the soules howe muche doest thou thincke that they haue spente I thincke that they doe lesse burte unto those meates then the flyes and that they dooe but lych a lyttle upon it Wherefore one cannot perceiue the cost for to recken to them their shot Neuerthelesse although that accoroing to the Theology of Ouid they are contēted with a little yet they are notwithstanding meruailously sorrowfull and angry and doe rage out of measure when one forgetteth them without making any accompt doing his duetie towardes them and doe auenge themselues rigorouslye as the Theologyan before alledged wytnesseth speaking of that matter and of theyr feaste saying When doubtfull chaunco of victory vvith foes in field was tride Then sunerals for parents soules was layed cleane aside And though that flames for corses dead did heat the wals of Rome Yet seapt they not vnpunished by iust and rightfull dome He meaneth by the same that they were stroken wyth so terrible diseases and so great mortalitie that euery daye men ceased not to make great fires in the suburbes of the Citie for to burne the bodyes of those which dayly dyed to a great number Thomas But how haue the Romaines imagined that their euyll procéeded thereby For they had a certein excuse bicause of the great affaires that they had Hillarius Dur Doctour before alledged expoundeth also the manner how the same came unto theyr knowledge saying The graundfathers reported are by night from Tombe to come And in those times doe much bewayle the wrongs vnto them done For sacrifice not for them made their soules by streetes doe glide And through fieldes and desarts great in wofull dole doe slide They learned to their coste not to dispise and forget any more the soules they did set such good order that they neuer afterwaids tt eir realt and solemuitie was forgotten and onlitted without beeing ducly celebrated as it ought to be according to the auncient manner Thomas And did that profit them any thing al all Hillarius Marke the aunswer and witnes of the same Doctor saying But after sacrifices donne that did surcease of yore These monstrous shapes and mortall plagues afflicted them no more Who will deuy but that Ouid was a true Prophet of the Popes who hath prefigured and described in his feasts and Calender the feastes and popish Religion soe well in euery point that there is no more to bee spoken of it for what other thing is the popishe Religion then the contmucation and maintenance of the auncient Rome the which this man here hath succeeded obserued and kept all in all Theophilus He hath hit the nayle on the head Wherfore you do no wronge friend Eusebius in saying that you would liue as your predecessors For those olde Idolatrous Romaines are your true predecessors sith that you will follow them not that Prophets Apostles of Iesus Christ And euen as those fictions appearing of spirites shadowes serued among the Panyins but for to nourish keepe and
either he will become altogether without God religion or else hée wyll forge and inuent a newe after hys owne brayne On the coutrarye if one gyue bym ceremonies for to holde hym in religion and in hys office hée wyll make of them Gods and Idolls and will put all hys trust in the outwarde visible and materyall ceremonye and wyll forsake the principall and spyrituall thinges signified by those ceremonies and in stéede to serue hym as for degrées and shewes for to attaine vnto the true spirituall religion and to enter into the true Temple of God stayeth hymselfe vppon the degrées and before the gate and wyll not enter into the house As wée sée by experience in the people of Israel who haue alwayes more estéemed the exteriour ceremonies then those by which God woulde teache them Now if the same be happened vnto the people of God and to the Ceremonies ordayned of God hymselfe as all the Prophetes doo wytnesse what may happen vnto the ceremonies and traditions inuented by men Especially when the Churche hath false Prophetes or neglygent and couetous pastors and Shepheardes whiche haue no care of the healthe and saluation of the people and whiche doe not trauayle to pull awaye the superstytion and Idolatry but rather to augement and increase it for to abuse the ignoraunce of the poore simple people to their profite and filthy gayne cursed and too execrable is that which wée at this daye dooe proue and féele For in stéede to haue abolyshed by the feast of Candlemas the olde Idolatrye one hath augmented and confirmed it a greate deale more the whiche is so muche the more daungerous that the maske and dysguisinge of Sathan is better paynted out and hath founde out names and tytles more goodly and fauourable as is that of the blessed Virgin the mother of Iesus Christe as hathe bene alreadye touched in speakinge of Pantheon Hillarius Let vs consider all the matter worde by worde and thou shalt sée whether that in the feast of Candlemas we doe not celebrate the Februales Lupercales Proserpinales and Florales of the Panims First the name of the Purisication agréeth very wel with the name of February and of the Februales which doe also signifie purifications Afterwardes that purification is celebrated in the honour of the virgin Mary in whose name men doe blesse consecrate and be are Candells Tapers of War and Torches The Panims had all the same or the like in their Lupercales in that same time andmoneth and in the feast of the Godd else luno the whiche they called Februla Februalis Februata which signifieth purified or purisicatiue bicause that the purifications were made in hir feast and chiefely the same of the women the which the Lupercall Priests do purisie beating them vpon hands and backe with scourges and whippes made of Goates skill and with the cloake of Iuno with which they doe couer them chiefely for to make them beare children But I am certaine that for to do such miracles the gownes and cloakes of the Priests and Moonkes haue more vertue then the same of luno and I béeléeue that the women which haue bene couered with it shalbée barren by nature except they retourne more sertile and fruitfull Theophilus Sainct Augustine maketh also mention of a Goddesse named Meria whom he also calleth Februa bicause that the Panims do beléeue that shée purgeth the woemen of their issue of bloude and stayeth them euery moneth and chiefely after the conception and deliuering of childe But there is no doubt but that was not that luno of whom thou speakest off Hillarius Wee cannot doubt of it for that office was also assigned vnto hir and for that cause they haue called it Fluona by reason of the Flur and issue of bloud But our Priests haue now giuen that office vnto the virgyn Mary and do cause the woemen to be purified after their deliuery when that they are rysen from their bed as the Iewes dyd As though Iesus Christ had not bene yet come and as though wee were vnder the Ceremouies of the lawe Theophilus Durand also witnesseth that in that same feast the Romaines from fiue yere to fiue yere the first day of Februarie did purifie all the night the Townes with Tapers Torches lighted in the honour of Februa the Goddesse the Mother of God Mars whem they accompted for the God of Battell to the ende he we ulde giue vnto them victorie And they call also that feast Ambuibales bicause of the processions in which they cary that hostes and Sacraments that they do sacrifice with and in like manner the sacrifices which they make by the Townes Villages and rounde about the same and by the fields as wée do in the Rogation wéeke and on Christmas day Furthermore men did sacrifice that same very time vnto Pluto who for that cause as witnesseth Isidorus was named Februus and they did in like manner do sacrifice vnto other infernall Gods for the soules of their auncesters and offered vnto them hostes Watching all night singing Vigiles with Tapers and Torches burning to the ende they should haue pitie and compassion of the poore soules that be dead The women also celebrated the feast of Candlemas in the honour of the Goddesse Ceres and of hir daughter Proserpina bicause that Pluto that God of hell for hir beautie had rauished at the beginning of that moneth that hir mother Ceres séeking for hir by hils valleys béeing lighted in the night with torches lampes in Actna that hil of Sicile as that pocticall fables do witnes Hillarius Theu hast all â—dged Durand the master of that papisticall ceremonies I will alledge vnto thée an other whiche is of no lesse credit of whom thou hast already often times heard the witnes the which I do bring forth againe for confirmation of the words of Durand out of that booke in which he describeth the feast of Ceres saying amonge other of his words as followeth Yea there in steede of flaming lampe the Pine tree they did vse Hereoff the torch then graunted was for Ceres sacred Muse Theophilus For that cause saith he that in remembrance of the same at the beginning of the moneth of February they purified the Cittie and went in procession rounde about the same In stéede whereoff Pope Sergius hath commaunded established the feast of the Purification of our Lady And if thou thinke that I speake without booke and that I haue inuented the same of my selfe I do send thée vnto your owne bookes chiefely vnto Durand of whome I thinke that there wanteth not much but that I haue recyted vnto thee word by worde almost all that which thou hasâ—e now heard of mée Hillarius He ought also to adde that the wéepings lamentations sower lookes that they do make in their temples the Passion weeke the which they call the great holy wéeke chiefely the apish trickes
this custome that in the prayers of the Priestes which they doe make vnto God at his aulter the recommendation of the soules hath also his place And did not Monica the Mother of Sainct Augustine require that they should make remembraunce of hir in the sacrament of the aulter For that cause hath Sainct Gregory written that the soules of the dead are deliuered in scure manners and sorts either by the oblations of the Priestes or by the prayers of the Sainctes or by the aimes of their friendes or by the fastinges of their parents I doe not thincke that these two learned men would haue written suche thinges wythout hauinge foundation of the holye Scriptures And it is not lyke that the Church hath kept that custome so longe time but that shée was well assured that it came from the Apostles and afterwardes was augmented and ordayned by Origene as witnesseth Isidore for from the tyme of Sainct Denis and Tertulian who were next vnto the Apostles they made prayers sacrifyces and oblations for the dead For Sainct Denis maketh expresse mention of the prayer which the Bishop made for the dead that God woulde pardon him all that that hée myght haue committed through mans infirmitie and that he woulde place him in lyght and in the region and countrey of the liuinge and in the bosome of Abraham 〈◊〉 and Iacob It is in lyke manner written in Tertulian wee doe make yéerely one daye â—â—oblation for the dead I haue declared vnto thée many witnesses and of great authoritie I haue alledged vnto thee the custome of the auncient Church which is a witnesse which is worth a thousande I haue alledged vnto thée the practise of the auncient Doctors They doe sufficiently declare both they haue vsed and chiefely Sainct Augustine who â—â—â—â—â—festly witnesseth that the same was ordeyned of the authors which the vniuersall Church kéepeth that is no say that for those which are dead in the communion of the body and bloud of Christ when one maketh remembraunce of them in their place in the sinne very socrifice that one ought to maye and make remembraunce that one doe also offer that sacrifice for them Wherefore he sayth that we must not omit the supplication the which the Church hath taken in charge to doo for the spirites and soules of all the dead which are departed in the Christian society and company Theophilus I thinke that thou hast very strongly dysplayed and set foorth the principall weapons that thou canst finde for to defende thy quarrell and that if I haue once satisfied those obiections I beleeue that the matter shall bée ended as soone as hée toucheth the witnesse and authoritie of the auncient fathers As touching Sainct Denis and the authour of that booke of the celestiall and ecclesiasticall Hieratchies I haue already ready tolde thée what it was For who knoweth not that that booke of the celestiall Hierarchia is more worthy to be some dreamer then of Sainct Denis the Disciple of Sainct Paul For it hée had written eyther of the Angels or of the order of the Church hée had woulde rather haue followed Sainct Paule his Master then the dreames of his owne head and hée woulde not haue spoken of such matters otherwise then hée in his Epistles If thou doe diligently reade that booke of Denis whatsoeuer it bée thou shalt there finde that the prayers which are made at the burials are made for those that bée aliue and not for the dead And doth confirme that which wée haue already spoken off of the manner whiche the auncientes had to prayse the dead Wherefore it shoulde not bée néedefull to reiterate that whiche alreadye hath bene opened before if thou wouldest vnderstande that which one telleth thée But wee are alwayes to beginne wyth thée I haue already sufficiently declared vnto thee from what originall and beginninge the commemoration which is done for the dead in the Church came firste and what hath bene the custome of the auncient fathers the which was altogether contrary from that whiche is nowe in the Popish Church Wherefore that whiche thouhast alledged of Denis and Tertulian doth confirme my matter as I wyll proue vnto thee by Cyprian that holy Martyr who hath read and well vnderderstanded Tertulian if euer man dyd vnderstand him For hee had him in such reputation that hee dyd call him no otherwyse but the Master thorowe his great excellentnesse Insomuch that when hée woulde reade in hys bookes he sayde alwayes bringe mée the master And the better to declare the pleasure that hée dyd take in readinge him and the fruite that one myght therein learne receiue they saye that hee laide it at nyght when hée went to bed vnder vys pillolue that hee nyght haue it alwayes ready at hande when hee woulde occupye and looke in it as the auncient historyes doe also wytnesse that Alexander the great dyd myth the bookes of Homere For hée giueth vs sufficiently to vnderstande that the commemoration and the oblations which are done for the dead in that auncient Churche were none other thinges then the prayses and giuinge of thankes which the faythfull did render vnto God for the mercy that he did vnto their bretheren whome hée hath called from this world with the other thinges whiche haue bene already spoken off which are yet done at this daye in some places in Almaigne after the auncienâ— manner But they doe call commonly the oblation and sacryfice the diuine seruice and that which they dyd in theire assembles in which they did obserue chiefly foure things The first was the prophecie and preaching of the worde of god After the prayers Afterwards the supper and last of all the gatherings and almos for the poore And they did call that oblation and sacrifice not that they dyd vnderstand and meane to offer and sacrifice Iesus Christe as the Priests say that they doe in their Masse But bicause that the Bishop and Pastor of the church and al the Christian people did come to offer present themselues vnto god did offer vnto hym their orisons giuing of thanks which are y true sacrifice of praise And their almes in like manner for to coÌ„fort y poore people of Iesus Christ They are those which the Apostle calleth offerings agreeable vnto god And they did make coÌ„memoration of the death passion of Iesus Christ in celebrating the holy supper Wherfore we must not thinke y they did make prayers offerings for the dead to the ende they should be deliuered frdiâ— the paines of Purgatory as hath bene done in our time But the praiers were the prayses and thanks that they rendered vnto God and exhortations and admonitions which they dyd make by his word vnto those that bée liuinge The offeringes were of the almes that the faythfull dyd bring for to succour helpe the poore which were liuing And therefore long time amonge the auncientes that diuine soâ—â—ke that they
Aegyptians 184. Antiquitie of the Areadians 184. Antiquitie and instruction of mariage 185 Apes of the Apostles 126 Apparell white 167 Appearing of spirits to what end they pretende 135 Appellations extremes to whom they belong 198 Apophâ—hegme of Diogenes 153. Artillerie Papisticall 116 Aspersions and sprinklings at the entring in comming forth of the temple 153 Ashes holy 168 Ashes of an Heyfer 171 Ashes of the Auncients 169 Ashes of the vestales 171. Saint Augustine 175 Authoritie of S. Augustin for the suffrages for the deade 176 Authors of the Masse 183. Authours of the eclestiall and Ecclesiasticall Hierarchia 126 Ayme Duke of Sauoye 191 B. Bacchanales Bacchus 140 Banket and supper for the dead 132 Baptisme deferred 172 Baptisme for the dead 172. 183 Baptised to be for the dead 172 Beginning of prayers for the deade 116 Benifices and offices giuen by parentage 139 Bellyes giuen to slouth vnder coulour of religion 123 Bessation 191 Berengarus 139 Bying of the sielde of Ephron 118 Bloud of Iesus 163 Blessing of the brides bed 147 Blessing of Torches and Tapers 153 Blessing of the Pascell fire 157 〈…〉 171 〈…〉 â—â—6 138 〈…〉 195 〈…〉 of propositâ—â—â— 144 〈◊〉 and mourning for Iacob and Mosis 117 C. Candelles of a good saiut 181 Candelles blessed and prucessious 151 Candelles for the health of soule and bodie 152 Candelmes day 147 Caruâ— the goddesse the porter 167 Castor and Pollus 1â—1 The cause of the mourning of the Israelites 119 The cause of the institucioÌ„ of feasts 147 Celerin and his family 179 Cereales 151 Certitude in the doctrme of faith required 196 Ceremonies 170 Chameleon 1â—3 Charmes 152 Chastitie and secretly 145 Chase away the diuell by fasting prayers 171 Charge of ceremonies 130 Cloris 166 Christians sauage wilde 146 Combat of Mars and Mineâ—â—a 136 The true Commemoration of the death of Iesus Christ 151 Commemorantes 181 To Communicate sacramentally spiritually 186 Comparison of the Ashes of an Heiser holy water 163 Conformitie and deformitie of the Bacchanales and the Shroftide 146 Conformities betweene the religion of the Paâ—â—ms and the Popes 136 Conformitie betweene God mars and faint Geâ—rge 137 Conformitie of the feastes of the deade 137 Conformitie of Cyble to our Lady 138 Constancy of the Greekes 190 Complaint of Saint Augustine 130 Coâ—â—uring of the water 153 To put the Lorde about the necke 144 Coâ—empaing of the Gospel 14â— Counsell and moderation of Saint Paul 144 Councile of Constance and of Basle 187 Councile of Florence 190 Councile of Lateran 190 Councile of Basill 190 Councile of Ferrara 190 Councile of Innocent Pope and others 190 Conuent of Monkes 183 Couetous of renowne 156 Creatures of the Pope 143 Creators of the creatour 143 Craft and deceite of a Priest of Canopus 157 Custome of the Romaines 123 Custome of the Thracians 122 Custome of the Cathercumenes 172 Custome of the Lecedemonians 123 Custome of the Lycians 123 Custome auncient of the Massilians 123 Cyble 137 Cygales 133 Cypâ—â—an 177 D. Dayes appointed to mourne for what cause 119 Dayes Aristotolicalls 134 Dayes dedicated to the deed 117 Dauâ—d and Abimelech 141 Denis Areopagâ—te 126. 177 Diana Strongilios or Diana Rotunda 138 The disceite which Faunus did thinke to do vnto Hercules 147 Difference betweene â—hisike and Philosphiie a charmer and a Magicyan 154 Dishonour vnto the Urigin Mary 151 Little dispenses costes about the dead 132 Dispensation of mariage 124 Dispensations of the Pope 141 Disputations of the bablers of Diuinytie 196 Disputations of the Athess of the hoast 161 Diuersitie of opinions touching the suffrages for the dead 196 Doctrine of the Apostles perfect 193 Dionisiales 146 E. Easter 150 Eccâ—â— 115 Egges of Serpents 197 Elect in daunger to be seduced 197 Aeneas 129 Ende of mans life 142 Ende of the Popes Lawes 143 Eucratistes and Seuerians 141 Epitaphe of Lucresse 141 Errour of the Idolaters and hypocrits 164 Example of Dauid 125 Excommunication for communion 18â— Exhortacion to repentance 144 F. False following of the worke of Saints 164 Fastings condempned 170 Fastings of the auncients 169 Fastings and abstinence of the Panims 171 Fastings 167 Fasting the principall vse 170 Fannes and Satyres 147 Februa 131. 149 Feastes and Anniuersaries for the deade and their beginning 128 Feasted for the deade in Februarie 129 Feastes of Martyrs and confessors 13â— The feast of the dead 138 An other feast of the dead 139 Feasts of mad men 140 Feast of saint Peters chaire 133 Feasts of the dead in May. 129 Feasts cut in peeces 139 An other feast of the deade in Ianuarie 139 Feasts of fooles 140 Feast of Kings 14â— Feast of the Panims comprised in the feast of Candels 14â— Feralis Coena 132 Fire of Vesta 158 Fire Diuturnall and eternall 194 Fire kindeled in the Temple of Vesta 160 Fire and water the Gods of the Papists 157 Fire the God of the Persians 154 Fire made a God. 159 Fires of S. Brandon of Ihon. 168 The true fire what it is 162 Flora. 166 Florales 151. 166. Fluona 149 The force of gold and of Iron 159 Fraction or breaking of the hoast 188 G. Gerion 131 Gift of continency 144 Gifts to doe myracles in the primitiue Church 126 Goddesse Pecunia 143 Goddesse of Beasts 169 God Ris. 150 God compared to fire 155 God Canopus 156 Gods of fire and water 162 The great God of the Pope 14â— The most puissant God of the Priests 158 Good fryday 150 Gold why it is pale 159 Gregory the first 116 Gregory the third 116 Gregory the fourth 138 H. Handkerchefe of Chambery 160 Harpe of Orpheus and that of the pope 131 Hecate triua triformis 131 Hercules 131 Herostratus 156 Hillaria 150 Holy bread and the breade of saint Agathe 165 Holy hoast 158 Hoostes the subtillest in the world 186 Humilytie famed 170 Hypocrits 170 Hymenius the God of mariages 136 I. Ieto me contrarie vnto mariage 145 Saint Iessiye 140 Ieast of a holy father 134 Iewes among the Christians 160 Idolatrie of the fire and plamrets 155 Images Noses stopped and couered 172 Images instruments of the diuell 155 Image of saint George cast into Saine 137 Imitacion of the Iewes and Panyms and of Mahomet 128 Incredulytie 171 Induction 142 Institucion of the supper 185 Infirmitie of man. 148 Interpretation of the blessing of the new fire 157 Inuocation of Saints 181 Iulian the Apostat 132 Iuno Sospita 167 Iuno and Diana Queene of Heauen 138 Iupiter a sauiour 167 L Laughing of the Soules 134 Lawe of â—uma for the marriage of widowes 124 Lawes of marriage what they ought to be 124 Laws of the Romaines of the mourning of widowes 124 Lawe of the Iewish funeralles 120 Lawe of fastings 169 Lawes cimles and obedience to Maiestrates 142 Lewes King. 1â—9 Lent. 240 Libertie of the Gospell 120 Libertie Christian 11â— Lymit of mans affection 121 Lugentibus in Purgatory 166 Lupercales 129. 149 M. Manner by the which the soules are deâ—uered 176 Manner and
cleane and very proper for to represent the same of the holy Ghost For it washeth purifieth cleanseth and refresheth the hearts and consciences for to comfort them and to make them bring foorth fruite pleasing vnto God in such sort that the water causeth the earth to fructifie renoweth and maketh it fertile washeth away the filthinesse from the body It quencheth and putteth out in lyke manner the fire and heate of wicked carnall concupiscences as the water quencheth out the fire and queÌ„cheth the thirst and alteration of the poore féebled soules refresheth them for euer The seconde cause is that hée would haue opened vnto vs the intelligence and vnderstanding of ceremonies baptismes and purifycations conteyned in the law of Moses of y prophets in like manner by which the holy ghost was promised chiefly by Esay Ezechiel vnto whom he maketh allusion hath had the regard thervnto Therefore he would expound them vnto vs and giue vs to vnderstand that those waters promised of God did signifie none other thing theÌ„ the abouÌ„dance of the holy ghost which ought to be shed foorth vpon all flesh as a riuer and a floud of water whiche watereth and ouerfloweth all the earth The which Sainct Peter witnesseth to haue bene accomplished both in him and in the other Disciples of Iesus Christ the day of Pentecost according to y prophecie of Ioel. And therefore Iesus Christ would as well in that place as in speaking vnto the Samaritane and bidding those which were in the temple to come drinke of those liuing waters vse those manners of speakings And for to declare vnto vs in like manner to what ende he hath instituted the signe of the water in the baptisme And that it is true I doe take Sainct Iohn for a witnesse who expounding the words of his Master saith that he vnderstandeth by those waters y holy Ghost y which the beléeuers ought to receiue Thirdly by that forme of figured speaking be teacheth vs in like manner what the Christian man ought to bée that is regenerated by the holy Ghost setting foorth the water and the winde which are bodyes more subtill thinner cléerer purer then the earth which is an elemeÌ„t more weightier vnpurer thicker and materyall These wordes then doe signifie as much as if hée had sayde that in stéede of that weightie earthlye carnall and corruptible man wée must be regenerated into a newe man heauenlye spirituall and perfect as much differing from this héere whiche is earthly and fallinge as the water and the winde doe differ from the earth And it must be that the same is done by the holy Ghost which is the true water which maketh that purification in vs. Eusebius Thy exposition is not without a fayre shew But ought I therefore the sooner to receyue it then the same of the auncient Doctours who in that place by the water haue vnderstanded the baptisme whiche is giuen by the water and chiefely Saincte Iohn Chrisostome Theophilus I am well content to magnifie with the auncients the Sacraments as much as shall be possible So that thou wilt vnderstande them so as they themselues would they should be vnderstanded For although that I would receiue the exposition of Chrisostome it followeth not therefore that by the same one may conclude the element of the water to be so necessary vnto saluation that without the same man cannot obteine it For wée must consider that when the scripture the auncient Doctors do speake of the sacraments they haue not regarde onely to the outward signe but do staye themselues principally vpon the thing signified by them the which they doe vnderstand properly And therefore following their intellygence we may expounde those wordes after that sence as if Iesus Christ did say hée which shall not wash away his sinnes which shall not receiue truely the holy Ghost and which shall not be receiued into my Church and into my flocke after the manner as I haue ordeyned that hée shoulde doe by the baptisme shall not enter into the kingdome of god It followeth not therefore that he which shall haue héere all the thinges comprised and signified by the baptisme ought to bée reiected and forsaken of God if he lacke but the water But yet the better to content thée I will declare vnto thée euidently that not onely the auncient Doctors but also the scholasticalles and questionaries doe confirme my sentence For the master of the sentences hauing moued the same question which thou hast propouÌ„ded touching those words of Iesus christ aunswered that the same place ought to be vnderstanded of those which may be baptised and doe make none accompt of it or that one may thus expound it he which shall not be regenerate of the water the holy Ghost y is to say of that regeneration which is made by the water the holy Ghost shall not be saued Now y regeneration cannot be made onely by the baptisme but also thorow penance and by the bloud Behold the very wordes of the master of the sentences who vnderstandeth by the bloud the same of the Martyrs which is shed for the witnesse of the truth For your owne doctours perceiuing the absurdities inconueniences which would followe if one would vnderstand that place of Iesus Christ of the exterior baptisme and to take it rigâ—rously haue béene compelled to say that there shoulde be three sortes of baptisme that is to saye of the water of the holy Ghost and of bloud by the whiche diuision they doe confesse openly that there is an other kinde of baptisme then the same of the water by the which man may be saued There is the baptisme of the holy Ghost and of faith which may be without the same of the water Vpon which the maister of the sentences alledgeth Augustine saying Thou doest demaund which is greatest either faith or the water I doubt not but that thou wilt aunswere vnto mée that it is the faith If then that which is least can sanctifie shal not that which is greater do it better to wit the faith of which Iesus Christ hath said he that beléeueth on mée yea though he were dead yet shall he liue Eusebius S. Augustine neuerthelesse concludeth of the words of Iesus Christ that none can come vnto eternall life without the sacrament of baptisme but those which do shead their bloud for the trueth in the Church But which is more he sayth we do not beléeue that any Cathecumenian hath eternall life although that he shall dye in good workes if he be not baptised or martyred You do well knowe that in the auncient Church those which had receiued the Gospell and were not yet baptised were called Cathecumenes bicause that one had instructed them in the faith And following that same matter he saith more ouer We beléeue that there is no way of saluation but for those that are baptised Theophilus I
infamy the which yet neuertheles redoundeth more vnto their pareÌ„ts friends then vnto them But they forget themselues or rather they think that they do yet foele shal féele that dishonour infamye and publike shame which shall continue to their infants and lynage And although that they bée sufficiently tormented with their euill yet neuerthelesse they féele a great ease and refreshing if they vnderstande that their children haue none euill their torment is aggrauated and increased if they vnderstande the contrarie For that cause the Prophetes doe threaten not onely the wicked sort of their owne ruine and distruction but doe foreshewe vnto them that of their children and the euilles whiche shall happen vnto them as it appeareth in the prophecy of Esaie against Babylon and others like But for to stoppe all those euills and for to appaise the wrath of God kindled vpon vs as well for our sinnes as those of our fathers there is no better prayers nor offrings then to runne with true repentance amendemeÌ„t of life to implore his mercy Behold the good prayers for y deade to that ende that their sinnes be not counted wish ours Although that it be after whatsoeuer manner 〈◊〉 wilt take that place it sufficeth móe at this present to haue shewed vnto thée that thou canst not by the same proue thy purgatory although that the booke shoulde bée of the holy scripture And if thou wilt giue vnto it any credit it may better serue thée for to proue the Lymbe if there be one then the Purgatory But sith that Iesus Christ is come and that you confesse that he hath drawen the â—athers from the Lymbes the example of Iudas Machabeus can haue no more place among you sith that according to your doctrine the cause is ceased Eusebius Put case that there were no more neither Lymbe nor Purgatory can we not at the least pray for the resurrection of the deade And for the seconde comming of Iesus Christ the which we doe looke for as well as the auncyent fathers haue prayed for the first and haue desired and sighed after it Theophilus We may well pray as I haue alreadye saide and aske of God all that which apperteyneth to the perfection of his kingdome But to make prayers which are called prayers for the deade and to pray in perticuler that God woulde raise vp againe the bodyes of those which are deade and that Iesus Christ would soone come to iudgement I haue no commaundement of God nor example in all the holy scripture but rather to the contrary For when the Lorde aunswered vnto the soules of the saints which complayned of their persecutors that they shoulde â—arry vntill the number of their bretheren were fulfilled he doth sufficiently shewe by the same that he hath prefered the tyme the which cannot be plucked nor driuen backe And sith that the thing is altogether certeine and that we are alreadie all assured what néede is it then to make perticuler praiers Eusebius We are asmuch assured that all thinges which ought to come are passed by the counsell of God and that he will giue vs all that which shal be requisite to our helth and saluation that all the haires of our heade are numbred and none shall fall to the grounde without his wyll and his kingdome shall shall come and shall be exalted aboue all creatures but we may not leaue off therefore to pray continually â— to demaunde those thinges of God. Theophilus It is an other thing of vs which are yet in our voiage earthly peregrination â— of those which haue alreadie ended their course vnto whome we can no more add too nor dimynish For all the while that we are yet in the battaile we may empaire or amende and we haue alwayes néede to inuocate and call for the aide of God both for vs and for our bretheren which are yet in combate fight with vs And which is more God commaundeth vs so to do not that he knoweth not better then we what we do lacke before we do aske and that hee is not willing to giue it vs but hee doth it for to hold and kéepe vs in his feare to learne vs to sanctifie his name to exercise our faith towards him and our loue towardes our neighboure whilest that wée may serue him in this mortall peregrination But after that the voctorie is gotten or lost and that one is once come and arriued to the hauen and port to which he must go the cause and the occasion is no more such Eusebius Thou hast saide before that the soules of the blessed and the verye Angels were not yet in their full glorie Also wee cannot denye but that the bodies of the faithfull that are deade are yet kept in death sith that they are in corruption from the which they shal not be deliuered vntill their resurrection that death shal be altogether abolished What euill is it then to pray for the deade that their bodie may be deliuered from corruption and that they may haue their perfect consummation in bodie and soule Theophilus I haue alreadie satisfied thée in that if thou vnderstandest what difference there is betwéene the lyuing and the deade And although we had none other thing but that the scripture maketh no expresse commasidement that ought to suffice thée For if it were a question to worke subtilly and sophistically in the worde of god I shoulde well haue asmuch reason to put forth that wée must make prayers in perticuler for the virgin Marye for all the Prophets Apostles Saints and Saintes of Paradise Yea for the Angells and for Iesus Christ himselfe Hillaâ—ius It shoulde be requisite then by that accompt to make out of hand a newe Letany In stéede where the Prâ—estes do sing saint Michael pray for vs saint Mary mother of God pray for vs saint Peter pray for vs and so consequently of others we must say O Lorde we pray and beseech thée for saint Michael saint Gabriel saint Mary saint Peter saint Paul â—nd â—or all the saints and saintes of Paradise that thou do put them in full â—oye and perfect â—elicitie and that thâ—u â—aise vp their bodyes to eternall glorie Theophilus If our dâ—e examine well the greatest part of the prayers which the priestes make for the deade euen as they are written in their Messell and Breuiaries one shal be constrained â—o confesse that such prayers cannot be made in the name of others then of those whome they do inuocate and call vpon in their Letanyes and that they be of like condition Hillarius I haue heard the Cordeliers mocke at Frier Christofer which was one of their order and couent bâ—cause that he did sing the Masse of Requiem for the Saints and Saintes of Paradise But if he had knowen howe to defende his cause it had not béene without reasâ—n For he might haue verie wel alledged for his warrant the Memento of the
rest except that sometimes those lyttle varlets and lockesmithes doe picke the locke and the dore of the great loksmith and great treasurer he knowing nothing thereoff and that he be not therewithall content although that vnder his name and title they streth foorth their power as séemeth good vnto them and doe forge keyes bulles and pardons as many as they lyst and alwaies at the costs of the poore people Now the great lockesmith hath no lymit but that he hath alwaies reasonable cause for to giue buls and pardons as many as one woulde so that money doe come or otherwise he will suffer the poore soules to be rosted and tormented in Purgatory as long as the world shall continue for want of one leafe of paper or parchment with a lyttle waxe and leade As concerning the others which haue the daies limitted that they may giue pardons I haue a certeine doubt the which I would that I were resolued of it by thée Eusebius For sith that the one hath power to giue two or thrée thousand an other two or thrée hundreth an other an hundreth fiftie fortie thirtie or twentie either more or lesse I would gladly know of thée what horologes clocks what quadrans they haue in purgary for to measure those dayes there For sith that there is no sun moone nor stars what daies what yeres can they haue For the time is taken of the morning of the heauen of the course of the sunne But those which are in purgatory haue nothing of al this Wherfore I cannot comprehend what yeres what months dayes houres they can haue whether they be very long or short As far as I can imagine by an exāple which Antonius Florentin reciteth in his sum the daies ought ther to be meruailous lōg For he saith that an Angell caryed thether a soule of a man to whome hée promised that it shoulde tary there but an houre And as soone as that Angell did come agayne to see that soule it did begin to crye out vpon him and to call him lyer deceiuer and traytor Thomas To what purpose Hillarius It sayd vnto him Thou hast promised me that I should be but an houre and I haue bene heere already more then an hundreth yeres But the Angel aunswered vnto him There wanteth a great many my friende For thou hast not yet taryed a quarter of an houre Wherefore I doe conclude that it must needes be that the dayes and yeares be there very long sith that a quarter of an houre is there compared to a hundreth or thousande yeares of ours or els that the fire is there meruaylous hotte and that the time continueth long to the poore soules Eusebius I will tell thée as touching the pardons it hath bene long time sithence that many people doe know that there is in them great abuses Wherefore I will not much breake my braynes to maynteine them Theophilus I doe also iudge it lost time to speake of such abuse if I did not sée that sithence the time of Gregory so many people to haue bene abused that so many great Doctors which are most estéemed amongst the Sophisters and Schoolemen haue written of it and haue confirmed it so assuredly Hillarius I know that thou doest beginne already Eusebius to agree with vs I beléeue that thou art of this opinion that the Pope ought to let the dead rest without reigning ouer them sith that they haue more power ouer the Pope then the Pope ouer them as I will proue it by an example taken from the Autentike booke which is intituled the conformities of Saint Fraunces For I haue neuer read that the Pope hath raysed to lyfe any dead person and that he came to aunswere before him of all those whom he hath cyted condempned absolued or excommunicated But that booke doth witnesse manifestly that Fryer Walter a Cordelier and Bishop of Poytiers hath caused to be cyted after his death by a Cedule Pope Clement the firt for to appeare before the eternall Iudge bicause that he had vniustly deposed him from his office Thomas And did the Pope appeare there by vertue of that Cytacion Hillarius If the booke lye not that was no iest For at the verye same daye which was prescribed vnto him the Pope dyed of a sodeyne death and departed sodeinely for to goe and aunswere there What sayest thou by this Eusebius If this history be false it is a great dishonor for the Cardeliers who do make great accompt of that booke and doe holde it to be very pretious among them as a relicke and reuelation And for the Pope also which hath confirmed the order of saint Fraunces and of the foure Mendicants I know not what good meanes we may héere finde for to maynteine that buylding and the honour and authoritie both of the one and of the other For sith that the Pope hath confirmed the order of Saint Fraunces the order of saint Fraunces is buylded and staied vppon the Pope wherefore when the Pope shall fall which is the stone and foundation of that Church and of that buylding also shall fall the buylding the order and the rule of the Mendicants Now we cannot deny but that example doth ruinate ouerthrow the Pope all his power I do not dispute whether that the history be true or false For I beléeue that is as true as it is true that the Pope is God saint Fraunces conformable agréeing to Iesus Christ as that booke ful of blasphemies enforceth it selfe to proue it But I consider onely that sith that the Cordeliers haue written such an history do maynteine it by their bookes that they doe abate asmuch the authoritie and power of the Pope as the Pope doth confirme their rule and order For how can this witnesse agrée with this proposition The Pope cannot erre And with the exposition which Eccius and his lyke doe make of those words Thou arte Peter and vppon that rocke I will buylde my congregation and the gates of hell shall not preuayle agaynst it If the Pope be that rocke or stone and that stone is fallen it must néedes be that all the Popish church doe fall with it and the orders of the foure Mendicants which are his foure Euangelysts and his principall pillers And so by that meanes the Cordeliers whome the Pope hath made doe vnmake the Pope which hath made them and the creature vnmaketh his creator and the creator his creatures Theophilus It chaunced to them as to the Madianits which destroyed themselues the one the other with their owne weapons when they heard the sound of the trompets and pitchers of the army of Gedeon and saw the lyght of his torches So in lyke manner sith that Iesus Christ our true Gedeon hath put the trompets of his gospell into the handes of his lyttle army the which by vertue of his holy spirite he maketh to sounde euen vnto the endes of the