free_a hear_n be_v 57_o more_o than_o ever_o the_o english_a catholic_n can_v obtain_v though_o they_o have_v often_o offer_v and_o desire_v it_o and_o that_o but_o under_o the_o prince_n word_n and_o that_o no_o answer_n have_v nor_o no_o good_a answer_n can_v be_v give_v and_o he_o cite_v campian_n for_o it_o how_o far_o or_o how_o often_o this_o have_v be_v ask_v by_o the_o english_a romanist_n i_o can_v tell_v nor_o what_o answer_n have_v be_v give_v they_o but_o sure_o campian_n be_v too_o bold_a and_o so_o be_v a._n c._n too_o to_o say_v praefixâ_fw-la honestum_fw-la responsum_fw-la nullum_fw-la no_o good_a answer_n can_v be_v give_v for_o this_o i_o think_v be_v a_o very_a good_a answer_n that_o the_o king_n and_o the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v no_o reason_n to_o admit_v of_o a_o public_a dispute_n with_o the_o english_a romish_a clergy_n till_o they_o shall_v be_v able_a to_o show_v it_o under_o the_o seal_n or_o power_n of_o rome_n that_o that_o church_n will_v submit_v to_o a_o three_o who_o may_v be_v a_o indifferent_a judge_n between_o we_o and_o they_o or_o to_o such_o a_o general_n council_n as_o be_v after_o 1._o mention_v and_o this_o be_v a_o honest_a and_o i_o think_v a_o full_a answer_n and_o without_o this_o all_o disputation_n must_v end_v in_o clamour_n and_o therefore_o the_o more_o public_a the_o worse_a because_o as_o the_o clamour_n be_v the_o great_a so_o perhaps_o will_v be_v the_o schism_n too_o f._n moreover_o he_o say_v he_o will_v ingenuous_o acknowledge_v that_o the_o corruption_n of_o manner_n in_o the_o romish_a church_n be_v not_o a_o sufficient_a cause_n to_o justify_v their_o depart_v from_o it_o b._n §_o 22_o i_o will_v i_o can_v say_v you_o do_v as_o ingenous_o repeat_v as_o i_o do_v confess_v for_o i_o never_o say_v that_o corruption_n of_o manner_n be_v or_o be_v not_o a_o sufficient_a cause_n to_o justify_v their_o departure_n how_o can_v i_o say_v this_o since_o i_o do_v not_o grant_v that_o they_o do_v depart_v otherwise_o than_o be_v 6._o before_o express_v there_o be_v difference_n between_o departure_n and_o causeless_o thrust_v from_o you_o for_o out_o of_o the_o church_n be_v not_o in_o your_o power_n god_n be_v thank_v to_o thrust_v we_o think_v on_o that_o and_o so_o much_o i_o say_v express_o then_o that_o which_o i_o do_v ingenuous_o confess_v be_v this_o that_o corruption_n in_o manner_n only_o be_v no_o sufficient_a cause_n to_o make_v a_o separation_n in_o the_o church_n 236._o nor_o be_v it_o it_o be_v a_o truth_n agree_v on_o by_o the_o father_n and_o receive_v by_o divine_n of_o all_o sort_n save_v by_o the_o cathari_n to_o who_o the_o donatist_n and_o the_o anabaptist_n after_o accord_v and_o against_o who_o etc._n calvin_n dispute_v it_o strong_o and_o s._n augustine_n expectant_a be_v plain_a there_o be_v bad_a fish_n in_o the_o net_n of_o the_o lord_n from_o which_o there_o must_v be_v ever_o a_o separation_n in_o heart_n and_o in_o manner_n but_o a_o corporal_a separation_n must_v be_v expect_v at_o the_o seashore_n that_o be_v the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n and_o the_o best_a fish_n that_o be_v must_v not_o tear_v and_o break_v the_o net_n because_o the_o bad_a be_v with_o they_o and_o this_o be_v as_o ingenuous_o confess_v for_o you_o as_o by_o i_o for_o if_o corruption_n in_o manner_n be_v a_o just_a cause_n of_o actual_a separation_n of_o one_o church_n from_o another_o in_o that_o catholic_a body_n of_o christ_n the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v give_v as_o great_a cause_n as_o any_o since_o as_o 3._o stapleton_n grant_v there_o be_v scarce_o any_o sin_n that_o can_v be_v think_v by_o man_n heresy_n only_o except_v with_o which_o that_o sea_n have_v not_o be_v foul_o stain_v especial_o from_o eight_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ._n and_o he_o need_v not_o except_o heresy_n into_o which_o 23._o biel_n grant_v it_o possible_a the_o bishop_n of_o that_o sea_n may_v fall_v and_o pope_n stella_n and_o almain_n grant_v it_o free_o that_o some_o of_o they_o do_v fall_v and_o so_o cease_v to_o be_v head_n of_o the_o church_n and_o leave_v christ_n god_n be_v thank_v at_o that_o time_n of_o his_o vicar_n defection_n to_o look_v to_o his_o cure_n himself_o f._n but_o say_v he_o beside_o corruption_n of_o manner_n there_o be_v also_o error_n in_o doctrine_n b._n §_o 23_o this_o i_o speak_v indeed_o and_o can_v you_o prove_v that_o i_o speak_v not_o true_a in_o this_o but_o i_o add_v though_o here_o again_o you_o be_v please_v to_o omit_v it_o that_o some_o of_o the_o error_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v dangerous_a to_o salvation_n for_o it_o be_v not_o every_o light_a error_n in_o disputable_a doctrine_n and_o point_n of_o curious_a speculation_n that_o can_v be_v a_o just_a cause_n of_o separation_n in_o that_o admirable_a body_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v his_o 23._o church_n or_o of_o one_o member_n of_o it_o from_o another_o for_o he_o give_v his_o natural_a body_n to_o be_v rend_v and_o tear_v upon_o the_o cross_n that_o his_o mystical_a body_n may_v be_v one._n and_o st._n john_n augustine_n infer_v upon_o it_o that_o he_o be_v no_o way_n partaker_n of_o divine_a charity_n that_o be_v a_o enemy_n to_o this_o unity_n now_o what_o error_n in_o doctrine_n may_v give_v just_a cause_n of_o separation_n in_o this_o body_n or_o the_o part_n of_o it_o one_o from_o another_o be_v it_o never_o so_o easy_a to_o determine_v as_o i_o think_v it_o be_v most_o difficult_a i_o will_v not_o venture_v to_o set_v it_o down_o in_o particular_a lest_o in_o these_o time_n of_o discord_n i_o may_v be_v think_v to_o open_v a_o door_n for_o schism_n which_o sure_o i_o will_v never_o do_v unless_o it_o be_v to_o let_v it_o out_o but_o that_o there_o be_v error_n in_o doctrine_n and_o some_o of_o they_o such_o as_o most_o manifest_o endanger_v salvation_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v evident_a to_o they_o that_o will_v not_o shut_v their_o eye_n the_o proof_n whereof_o run_v through_o the_o particular_a point_n that_o be_v between_o we_o and_o so_o be_v too_o long_o for_o this_o discourse_n now_o 55._o here_o a._n c._n will_v fain_o have_v a_o reason_n give_v he_o why_o i_o do_v endeavour_v to_o show_v what_o cause_n the_o protestant_n have_v to_o make_v that_o rent_n or_o division_n if_o i_o do_v not_o grant_v that_o they_o make_v it_o why_o true_o in_o this_o reasonable_a demand_n i_o will_v satisfy_v he_o i_o do_v it_o partly_o because_o i_o have_v grant_v in_o the_o general_n that_o corruption_n in_o manner_n be_v no_o sufficient_a cause_n of_o separation_n of_o one_o particular_a church_n from_o another_o and_o therefore_o it_o lay_v upon_o i_o at_o least_o to_o name_n in_o general_n what_o be_v and_o partly_o because_o he_o and_o his_o party_n will_v needs_o have_v it_o so_o that_o we_o do_v make_v the_o separation_n and_o therefore_o though_o i_o do_v not_o grant_v it_o yet_o amiss_o i_o think_v it_o can_v not_o be_v to_o declare_v by_o way_n of_o supposition_n that_o if_o the_o protestant_n do_v at_o first_o separate_a from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n they_o have_v reason_n so_o to_o do_v for_o a._n c._n himself_o confess_v that_o error_n in_o doctrine_n 56._o of_o the_o faith_n be_v a_o just_a cause_n of_o separation_n so_o just_a as_o that_o no_o cause_n be_v just_a but_o that_o now_o have_v i_o leisure_n to_o descend_v into_o particular_n or_o will_v to_o make_v the_o rent_n in_o the_o church_n wide_o it_o be_v no_o hard_a matter_n to_o prove_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v err_v in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n and_o dangerous_o too_o and_o i_o doubt_v i_o shall_v afterward_o descend_v to_o particular_n a._n c._n his_o importunity_n force_v i_o to_o it_o f._n which_o when_o the_o general_a church_n will_v not_o reform_v it_o be_v lawful_a for_o particular_a church_n to_o reform_v themselves_o b._n §_o 24_o num._n 1_o be_v it_o then_o such_o a_o strange_a thing_n that_o a_o particular_a church_n may_v reform_v itself_o if_o the_o general_n will_v not_o i_o have_v think_v and_o do_v so_o still_o that_o in_o point_n of_o reformation_n of_o either_o manner_n or_o doctrine_n it_o be_v lawful_a for_o the_o church_n since_o christ_n to_o do_v as_o the_o church_n before_o christ_n do_v and_o may_v do_v the_o church_n before_o christ_n consist_v of_o jew_n and_o proselyte_n this_o church_n come_v to_o have_v a_o separation_n upon_o a_o most_o ungodly_a policy_n of_o 27._o jeroboam_n so_o that_o it_o never_o piece_v together_o again_o to_o a_o common_a council_n to_o reform_v all_o they_o will_v not_o come_v be_v it_o not_o lawful_a for_o judah_n to_o reform_v herself_o when_o israel_n will_v not_o join_v sure_o it_o be_v or_o else_o the_o prophet_n deceive_v i_o that_o
express_o ascribe_v rule_n to_o the_o church_n and_o that_o be_v not_o only_o a_o pastoral_n power_n to_o teach_v and_o direct_v but_o a_o praetorian_a also_o to_o control_v and_o censure_v too_o where_o error_n or_o crime_n be_v against_o point_n fundamental_a or_o of_o great_a consequence_n else_o s._n paul_n will_v not_o have_v give_v the_o rule_n for_o excommunication_n 1_o cor._n 5._o nor_o christ_n himself_o have_v put_v the_o 5._o man_n that_o will_v not_o hear_v and_o obey_v the_o church_n into_o the_o place_n and_o condition_n of_o a_o ethnic_a and_o a_o publican_n as_o he_o do_v s._n mat._n 18._o 17._o and_o solomon_n rule_n be_v general_a and_o he_o have_v it_o twice_o my_o son_n forsake_v not_o the_o teach_n or_o instruction_n of_o thy_o mother_n now_o this_o â—8_o be_v either_o speak_v and_o mean_v of_o a_o natural_a mother_n and_o her_o authority_n 20._o over_o her_o child_n be_v confirm_v ecclus_n 3_o and_o the_o fool_n will_v be_v upon_o he_o that_o despise_v she_o prov._n 15._o or_o it_o be_v extend_v also_o to_o our_o mystical_a and_o spiritual_a mother_n the_o church_n and_o so_o the_o geneva_n 8._o note_v upon_o the_o place_n express_v it_o and_o i_o can_v but_o incline_v to_o this_o opinion_n because_o the_o blessing_n which_o accompany_v this_o obedience_n be_v so_o many_o and_o great_a as_o that_o they_o be_v not_o like_a to_o be_v the_o fruit_n of_o obedience_n to_o a_o natural_a mother_n only_o as_o solomon_n express_v they_o all_o prov._n 6._o and_o in_o all_o this_o here_o be_v no_o exception_n of_o 22._o of_o the_o mother_n err_v for_o mater_fw-la errans_fw-la a_o err_a mother_n lose_v neither_o the_o right_a nor_o the_o power_n of_o a_o mother_n by_o her_o error_n and_o i_o marvel_v what_o son_n shall_v show_v reverence_n or_o obedience_n if_o no_o mother_n that_o have_v err_v may_v exact_v it_o it_o be_v true_a the_o son_n be_v not_o to_o follow_v his_o mother_n error_n or_o his_o mother_n into_o error_n but_o it_o be_v true_a too_o it_o be_v a_o grievous_a crime_n in_o a_o son_n to_o cast_v off_o all_o obedience_n to_o his_o mother_n because_o at_o some_o time_n or_o in_o some_o thing_n she_o have_v fall_v into_o error_n and_o howsoever_o this_o consideration_n meet_v with_o this_o inconvenience_n as_o well_o as_o the_o rest_n for_o suppose_v as_o i_o say_v in_o the_o whole_a catholic_a militant_a church_n a_o absolute_a infallibility_n in_o the_o prime_a foundation_n of_o faith_n absolute_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o then_o though_o the_o mother-church_n provincial_a or_o national_a may_v err_v yet_o if_o the_o grandmother_n the_o whole_a universal_a church_n can_v in_o these_o necessary_a thing_n all_o remain_v safe_a and_o all_o occasion_n of_o disobedience_n take_v from_o the_o possibility_n of_o the_o church_n err_v be_v quite_o take_v away_o nor_o be_v this_o mother_n less_o to_o be_v value_v by_o her_o child_n because_o in_o some_o small_a thing_n age_n have_v fill_v her_o face_n full_a of_o wrinkle_n for_o where_o it_o be_v say_v that_o christ_n make_v to_o himself_o a_o church_n without_o spot_n or_o wrinkle_n eph._n 5._o that_o be_v not_o understand_v 27._o of_o the_o church_n militant_a but_o of_o the_o church_n triumphant_a 88_o and_o to_o maintain_v the_o contrary_a be_v a_o branch_n of_o the_o spread_a heresy_n of_o pelagianism_n nor_o be_v the_o church_n on_o earth_n any_o free_a from_o wrinkle_n in_o doctrine_n and_o discipline_n than_o she_o be_v from_o spot_n in_o life_n and_o conversation_n num._n 5_o the_o next_o thing_n i_o consider_v be_v suppose_v a_o general_n council_n take_v itself_o to_o be_v infallible_a in_o all_o thing_n which_o be_v of_o faith_n if_o it_o prove_v not_o so_o but_o that_o a_o error_n in_o the_o faith_n be_v conclude_v the_o same_o err_v opinion_n that_o make_v it_o think_v itself_o infallible_a make_v the_o error_n of_o it_o seem_v irrevocable_a and_o when_o truth_n which_o lie_v hide_v shall_v be_v bring_v to_o light_n the_o church_n who_o be_v lull_v asleep_a by_o the_o opinion_n of_o infallibility_n be_v leave_v open_a to_o all_o mauner_n of_o distraction_n as_o it_o appear_v at_o this_o day_n and_o that_o a_o council_n may_v err_v beside_o all_o other_o instance_n which_o be_v not_o few_o appear_v by_o that_o error_n of_o the_o council_n of_o 13._o constance_n and_o one_o instance_n be_v enough_o to_o overthrow_v a_o general_n be_v it_o a_o council_n 23._o christ_n institute_v the_o sacrament_n of_o his_o body_n and_o blood_n in_o both_o kind_n to_o break_v christ_n institution_n be_v a_o damnable_a error_n and_o so_o confess_v by_o 49._o stapleton_n the_o council_n be_v bold_a and_o define_v peremptory_o that_o to_o communicate_v in_o both_o kind_n be_v not_o necessary_a with_o a_o non_fw-la obstante_fw-la to_o the_o institution_n of_o christ._n consider_v now_o with_o i_o be_v this_o a_o error_n or_o not_o 26._o bellarmine_n and_o stapleton_n and_o you_o too_o say_v it_o be_v not_o because_o to_o receive_v under_o both_o kind_n be_v not_o by_o divine_a right_n no_o no_o sure_a for_o it_o be_v not_o christ_n proferunt_fw-la precept_n but_o his_o example_n why_o but_o i_o have_v think_v christ_n institution_n of_o a_o sacrament_n have_v be_v more_o than_o his_o example_n only_o and_o as_o bind_v for_o the_o necessary_n of_o a_o sacrament_n the_o matter_n and_o form_n precept_n as_o a_o precept_n therefore_o speak_v out_o and_o deny_v it_o to_o be_v christ_n institution_n or_o else_o grant_v with_o stapleton_n it_o be_v a_o damnable_a error_n to_o go_v against_o it_o if_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o christ_n institution_n be_v not_o as_o bind_v to_o we_o as_o a_o precept_n which_o you_o shall_v never_o be_v able_a take_v the_o precept_n with_o it_o chrys._n drink_v you_o all_o of_o this_o which_o though_o you_o shift_v as_o you_o can_v yet_o you_o can_v never_o make_v it_o other_o than_o it_o be_v a_o bind_a precept_n but_o bellarmine_n have_v yet_o one_o better_a device_n than_o this_o to_o save_v the_o council_n he_o say_v it_o be_v a_o mere_a calumny_n and_o that_o the_o council_n have_v no_o such_o thing_n that_o the_o non_fw-la obstante_fw-la have_v no_o reference_n to_o receive_v under_o both_o kind_n but_o to_o the_o time_n of_o receive_v it_o after_o supper_n in_o which_o the_o council_n say_v the_o custom_n of_o the_o church_n be_v to_o be_v observe_v non_fw-la obstante_fw-la notwithstanding_o christ_n example_n how_o foul_a bellarmine_n be_v in_o this_o must_v appear_v by_o the_o word_n of_o the_o council_n which_o be_v these_o 13._o though_o christ_n institute_v this_o venerable_a sacrament_n and_o give_v it_o his_o disciple_n after_o supper_n under_o both_o kind_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n yet_o non_fw-la obstante_fw-la notwithstanding_o this_o it_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v consecrate_a after_o supper_n nor_o receive_v but_o fast_v and_o likewise_o that_o though_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n this_o sacrament_n be_v receive_v by_o the_o faithful_a under_o both_o kind_n yet_o this_o custom_n that_o it_o shall_v be_v receive_v by_o layman_n only_o under_o the_o kind_n of_o bread_n be_v to_o be_v hold_v for_o a_o law_n which_o may_v not_o be_v refuse_v and_o to_o say_v this_o be_v a_o unlawful_a custom_n of_o receive_v under_o one_o kind_n be_v erroneous_a and_o they_o which_o persist_v in_o say_v so_o be_v to_o be_v punish_v and_o drive_v out_o as_o heretic_n now_o where_o be_v here_o any_o slander_n of_o the_o council_n the_o word_n be_v plain_a and_o the_o non_fw-la obstante_fw-la mus_fw-la necessary_o for_o aught_o i_o can_v yet_o see_v be_v refer_v to_o both_o clause_n in_o the_o word_n follow_v because_o both_o clause_n go_v before_o it_o and_o have_v as_o much_o force_n against_o receive_v under_o both_o kind_n as_o against_o receive_v after_o supper_n yea_o and_o the_o afterword_n of_o the_o council_n couple_n both_o together_o in_o this_o reference_n for_o it_o follow_v et_fw-la similiter_fw-la and_o so_o likewise_o that_o though_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n etc._n etc._n and_o a_o man_n by_o the_o definition_n of_o this_o council_n may_v be_v a_o heretic_n for_o stand_v to_o christ_n institution_n in_o the_o very_a matter_n of_o the_o sacrament_n and_o the_o church_n law_n for_o one_o kind_n may_v not_o be_v refuse_v but_o christ_n institution_n under_o both_o kind_n may_v and_o yet_o this_o council_n do_v not_o err_v no_o take_v heed_n of_o it_o num._n 6_o but_o your_o opinion_n be_v more_o unreasonable_a than_o this_o for_o consider_v any_o body_n collective_a be_v it_o more_o or_o less_o universal_a whensoever_o it_o assemble_v itself_o do_v it_o ever_o give_v more_o power_n to_o the_o represent_v body_n of_o it_o than_o bind_v power_n upon_o all_o particular_n and_o itself_o and_o do_v it_o ever_o give_v this_o power_n otherwise_o than_o with_o this_o reservation_n in_o nature_n
hinder_v it_o now_o to_o be_v since_o that_o do_v not_o depart_v from_o the_o protestant_a church_n but_o the_o protestant_a church_n from_o it_o true_o i_o neither_o suspect_v the_o inference_n will_v be_v make_v nor_o fear_v it_o when_o it_o be_v make_v for_o it_o be_v no_o news_n that_o any_o particular_a church_n roman_n as_o well_o as_o another_o may_v once_o have_v be_v right_o and_o afterward_o wrong_a and_o in_o far_o worse_a case_n and_o so_o it_o be_v in_o rome_n after_o the_o enemy_n have_v sow_v tare_n among_o the_o wheat_n 25._o s._n mat._n 13._o but_o whether_o these_o tare_n be_v sow_v while_o their_o bishop_n sleep_v or_o whether_o finem_fw-la they_o themselves_o do_v not_o help_v to_o sow_v they_o be_v too_o large_a a_o disquisition_n for_o this_o place_n so_o though_o it_o be_v once_o right_o yet_o the_o tare_n which_o grow_v thick_a in_o it_o be_v the_o cause_n why_o it_o be_v not_o so_o now_o and_o then_o though_o that_o church_n do_v not_o depart_v from_o the_o protestant_n church_n yet_o if_o it_o give_v great_a and_o just_a cause_n for_o the_o protestant_a church_n to_o depart_v from_o the_o error_n of_o it_o while_o it_o in_o some_o particular_n depart_v from_o the_o truth_n of_o christ_n it_o come_v all_o to_o one_o for_o this_o particular_a that_o the_o roman_a church_n which_o be_v once_o right_a be_v now_o become_v wrong_a by_o embrace_v superstition_n and_o error_n f._n farther_o he_o confess_v that_o protestant_n have_v make_v a_o rent_n and_o division_n from_o it_o b._n §_o 21_o num._n 1_o i_o confess_v i_o can_v here_o be_v hearty_o â—_o angry_a but_o that_o i_o have_v resolve_v in_o handle_v matter_n of_o religion_n to_o leave_v all_o gall_n out_o of_o my_o ink_n for_o i_o never_o grant_v that_o the_o roman_a church_n either_o be_v or_o be_v the_o right_a church_n it_o be_v too_o true_a indeed_o that_o there_o be_v a_o miserable_a rent_n in_o the_o church_n and_o i_o make_v no_o question_n but_o the_o best_a man_n do_v most_o bemoan_v it_o 1._o nor_o be_v he_o a_o christian_n that_o will_v not_o have_v unity_n may_v he_o have_v it_o with_o truth_n but_o i_o never_o 7._o say_v nor_o think_v that_o the_o protestant_n make_v this_o rent_n the_o cause_n of_o the_o schism_n be_v you_o for_o you_o thrust_v we_o from_o you_o because_o we_o call_v for_o truth_n and_o redress_v of_o abuses_n for_o a_o faith_n schism_n must_v needs_o be_v they_o who_o the_o cause_n of_o it_o be_v the_o woe_n run_v full_a out_o of_o the_o mouth_n of_o *_o christ_n ever_o against_o he_o that_o give_v the_o offence_n not_o against_o he_o that_o take_v it_o ever_o but_o you_o have_v by_o this_o carriage_n give_v i_o just_a cause_n never_o to_o treat_v with_o you_o or_o your_o like_a but_o before_o a_o judge_n or_o a_o jury_n 7._o num._n 2_o but_o here_o a._n c._n tell_v i_o i_o have_v no_o cause_n to_o be_v angry_a either_o with_o the_o jesuit_n or_o myself_o not_o with_o the_o jesuit_n for_o he_o write_v down_o 56._o my_o word_n in_o fresh_a memory_n and_o upon_o special_a notice_n take_v of_o the_o passage_n and_o that_o i_o do_v say_v either_o iisdem_fw-la or_o aequipollentibus_fw-la verbis_fw-la either_o in_o these_o or_o equivalent_a word_n that_o the_o protestant_n do_v make_v the_o rent_n or_o division_n from_o the_o roman_a church_n what_o do_v the_o jesuit_n set_v down_o my_o word_n in_o fresh_a memory_n and_o upon_o special_a notice_n take_v and_o be_v they_o so_o few_o as_o these_o the_o protestant_n do_v make_v the_o schism_n and_o yet_o be_v his_o memory_n so_o short_a that_o he_o can_v tell_v whether_o i_o utter_v this_o iisdem_fw-la or_o aequipollentibus_fw-la verbis_fw-la well_o i_o will_v a._n c._n and_o his_o fellow_n will_v leave_v this_o art_n of_o they_o and_o in_o conference_n which_o 57_o they_o be_v so_o ready_a to_o call_v for_o impose_v no_o more_o upon_o other_o man_n than_o they_o utter_v and_o you_o may_v observe_v too_o that_o after_o all_o this_o full_a assertion_n that_o i_o speak_v this_o iisdem_fw-la or_o aequipollentibus_fw-la verbis_fw-la a._n c._n conclude_v thus_o the_o jesuit_n take_v special_a notice_n in_o fresh_a memory_n 55._o and_o be_v sure_a he_o relate_v at_o least_o in_o sense_n just_a as_o it_o be_v utter_v what_o be_v this_o at_o least_o in_o sense_n just_a as_o it_o be_v utter_v do_v not_o these_o two_o enterfeire_n and_o show_v the_o jesuit_n to_o be_v upon_o his_o shuffle_a pace_n for_o if_o it_o be_v just_a as_o it_o be_v utter_v than_o it_o be_v in_o the_o very_a form_n of_o word_n too_o not_o in_o sense_n only_o and_o if_o it_o be_v but_o at_o least_o in_o sense_n then_o when_o a._n c._n have_v make_v the_o most_o of_o it_o it_o be_v not_o just_a as_o it_o be_v utter_v beside_o at_o least_o in_o sense_n do_v not_o tell_v we_o in_o who_o sense_n it_o be_v for_o if_o a._n c._n mean_v the_o jesuite_n sense_n of_o it_o he_o may_v make_v what_o sense_n he_o please_v of_o his_o own_o word_n but_o he_o must_v impose_v no_o sense_n of_o he_o upon_o my_o word_n but_o as_o he_o must_v leave_v my_o word_n to_o myself_o so_o when_o my_o word_n be_v utter_v or_o write_v he_o must_v leave_v their_o sense_n either_o to_o i_o or_o to_o that_o genuine_a construction_n which_o a_o ingenuous_a reader_n can_v make_v of_o they_o and_o what_o my_o word_n of_o grant_n be_v i_o have_v before_o express_v and_o their_o sense_n too_o num._n 3_o not_o with_o myself_o that_o be_v the_o next_o for_o a._n c._n say_v it_o be_v truth_n and_o that_o the_o world_n know_v it_o that_o the_o protestant_n do_v depart_v from_o 56._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o get_v the_o name_n of_o protestant_n by_o protest_v against_o it_o no_o a._n c._n by_o your_o leave_n this_o be_v not_o truth_n neither_o and_o therefore_o i_o have_v reason_n to_o be_v angry_a with_o myself_o have_v i_o grant_v it_o for_o first_o the_o protestant_n do_v not_o depart_v for_o departure_n be_v voluntary_a so_o be_v not_o they_o i_o say_v not_o they_o take_v their_o whole_a body_n and_o cause_n together_o for_o that_o some_o among_o they_o be_v peevish_a and_o some_o ignorant_o zealous_a be_v neither_o to_o be_v doubt_v nor_o be_v there_o danger_n in_o confess_v it_o your_o body_n be_v not_o so_o perfect_a i_o wot_v well_o but_o that_o many_o among_o you_o be_v as_o pettish_a and_o as_o ignorant_o zealous_a as_o any_o of_o we_o you_o must_v not_o suffer_v for_o these_o nor_o we_o for_o those_o nor_o shall_v the_o church_n of_o christ_n for_o either_o next_o the_o protestant_n do_v not_o get_v that_o name_n by_o protest_v against_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n but_o by_o protest_v and_o that_o when_o nothing_o else_o will_v serve_v reformation_n against_o her_o error_n and_o superstition_n do_v you_o but_o remove_v they_o from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o our_o protestation_n be_v end_v and_o the_o separation_n too_o nor_o be_v protestation_n itself_o such_o a_o unheard-of_a thing_n in_o the_o very_a heart_n of_o religion_n for_o the_o sacrament_n both_o of_o the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n be_v call_v by_o your_o own_o school_n visible_a sign_n protest_v the_o faith_n now_o if_o the_o sacrament_n be_v protestantia_fw-la sign_n protest_v why_o may_v not_o man_n also_o and_o without_o all_o offence_n be_v call_v protestant_n since_o by_o receive_v the_o true_a sacrament_n and_o by_o refuse_v they_o which_o be_v corrupt_v they_o do_v but_o protest_v the_o sincerity_n of_o their_o faith_n against_o that_o doctrinal_a corruption_n which_o have_v invade_v the_o great_a sacrament_n of_o the_o eucharist_n and_o other_o part_n of_o religion_n especial_o since_o they_o be_v man_n c._n which_o must_v protest_v their_o faith_n by_o these_o visible_a sign_n and_o sacrament_n num._n 4_o but_o a._n c._n go_v on_o and_o will_v needs_o have_v it_o that_o the_o protestant_n be_v the_o cause_n of_o the_o schism_n for_o say_v he_o though_o 56._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v thrust_v they_o from_o she_o by_o excommunication_n yet_o they_o have_v first_o divide_v themselves_o by_o obstinate_a hold_v and_o teach_v opinion_n contrary_a to_o the_o roman_a faith_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n which_o to_o do_v s._n bernard_n think_v be_v pride_n and_o s._n augustine_n madness_n so_o then_o in_o his_o opinion_n first_o excommunication_n on_o their_o part_n be_v not_o the_o prime_a cause_n of_o this_o division_n but_o the_o hold_n and_o teach_v of_o contrary_a opinion_n why_o but_o then_o in_o my_o opinion_n that_o hold_v and_o teach_v be_v not_o the_o prime_a cause_n neither_o but_o the_o corruption_n and_o superstition_n of_o rome_n which_o force_v many_o man_n to_o hold_v and_o teach_v the_o contrary_n so_o the_o prime_a cause_n be_v they_o still_o second_o a._n
that_o be_v the_o scripture_n or_o if_o there_o be_v a_o jealousy_n or_o doubt_n of_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o scripture_n they_o must_v either_o both_o repair_v to_o the_o exposition_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n and_o submit_v to_o that_o or_o both_o call_n and_o submit_v to_o a_o general_n council_n which_o shall_v be_v lawful_o call_v and_o fair_o and_o free_o hold_v with_o indifferency_n to_o all_o party_n and_o that_o must_v judge_v the_o difference_n according_a to_o scripture_n which_o must_v be_v their_o rule_n as_o well_o as_o private_a man_n num._n 2_o and_o here_o after_o some_o loud_a cry_n against_o the_o pride_n and_o insolent_a madness_n of_o the_o protestant_n a._n c._n add_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n 58._o be_v the_o principal_a and_o mother-church_n and_o that_o therefore_o though_o it_o be_v against_o common_a equity_n that_o subject_n and_o child_n shall_v be_v accuser_n witness_n judge_n and_o executioners_z against_o their_o prince_n and_o mother_n in_o any_o case_n yet_o it_o be_v not_o absurd_a that_o in_o some_o case_n the_o prince_n or_o mother_n may_v accuse_v witness_v judge_n and_o if_o need_v be_v execute_v justice_n against_o unjust_a and_o rebellious_a subject_n or_o evil_a child_n how_o far_o forth_o rome_n be_v a_o prince_n over_o the_o whole_a church_n or_o a_o mother_n of_o it_o will_v come_v to_o be_v show_v at_o after_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n though_o i_o can_v grant_v she_o to_o be_v either_o yet_o let_v we_o suppose_v she_o to_o be_v both_o that_o a._n c_n argument_n may_v have_v all_o the_o strength_n it_o can_v have_v nor_o shall_v it_o force_v i_o as_o plausible_a as_o it_o seem_v to_o weaken_v the_o just_a power_n of_o prince_n over_o their_o subject_n or_o of_o mother_n over_o their_o child_n to_o avoid_v the_o shock_n of_o this_o argument_n for_o though_o a._n c._n may_v tell_v we_o it_o be_v not_o absurd_a in_o some_o case_n yet_o i_o will_v fain_o have_v he_o name_v any_o one_o moderate_a prince_n that_o ever_o think_v it_o just_a or_o take_v it_o upon_o he_o to_o be_v accuser_n and_o witness_v and_o judge_n in_o any_o cause_n of_o moment_n against_o his_o subject_n but_o that_o the_o law_n have_v liberty_n to_o judge_n between_o they_o for_o the_o great_a philosopher_n tell_v we_o 6._o that_o the_o chief_a magistrate_n be_v custos_fw-la juris_fw-la the_o guardian_n and_o keeper_n of_o the_o law_n and_o if_o of_o the_o law_n then_o both_o of_o that_o equity_n and_o equality_n which_o be_v due_a unto_o they_o that_o be_v under_o he_o and_o even_o tiberius_n himself_o in_o the_o cause_n of_o silanus_n when_o dolabella_n will_v have_v flatter_v he_o into_o more_o power_n than_o in_o wisdom_n he_o think_v fit_a then_o to_o take_v to_o himself_o he_o put_v he_o off_o thus_o no_o annal._n the_o law_n grow_v less_o where_o such_o power_n enlarge_v nor_o be_v absolute_a power_n to_o be_v use_v where_o there_o may_v be_v a_o orderly_a proceed_n by_o law_n and_o for_o 9_o parent_n it_o be_v true_a when_o child_n be_v young_a they_o may_v chastise_v they_o without_o other_o accuser_n or_o witness_v than_o themselves_o and_o yet_o the_o child_n be_v to_o give_v they_o reverence_n and_o it_o be_v presume_v that_o natural_a affection_n will_v prevail_v so_o far_o with_o they_o that_o they_o will_v not_o punish_v they_o too_o much_o for_o all_o experience_n tell_v we_o almost_o to_o the_o loss_n of_o education_n they_o priesthood_n punish_v they_o too_o little_a even_o when_o there_o be_v cause_n yet_o when_o child_n be_v grow_v up_o and_o come_v to_o some_o full_a use_n of_o their_o own_o reason_n the_o apostle_n rule_n be_v 21._o colos._n 3_o parent_n provoke_v not_o your_o child_n and_o if_o the_o apostle_n prevail_v not_o with_o froward_a parent_n there_o be_v a_o magistrate_n and_o a_o law_n to_o relieve_v even_o a_o son_n against_o 7._o unnatural_a parent_n as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o case_n of_o t._n manlius_n against_o his_o over-imperious_a father_n and_o a_o express_a law_n there_o be_v among_o the_o jew_n 19_o deut._n 21._o when_o child_n be_v grow_v up_o and_o fall_v into_o great_a extremity_n that_o the_o parent_n shall_v then_o bring_v they_o to_o the_o magistrate_n and_o not_o be_v too_o busy_a in_o such_o case_n with_o their_o own_o power_n so_o suppose_v rome_n be_v a_o prince_n yet_o her_o subject_n must_v be_v try_v by_o god_n law_n the_o scripture_n and_o suppose_v she_o a_o mother_n yet_o there_o be_v or_o aught_o to_o be_v remedy_n against_o she_o for_o her_o child_n that_o be_v grow_v up_o if_o she_o forget_v all_o good_a nature_n and_o turn_v stepdame_n to_o they_o num._n 3_o well_o the_o reason_n why_o the_o jesuit_n ask_v the_o question_n quo_fw-la judice_fw-la who_o shall_v be_v judge_n he_o say_v be_v this_o because_o there_o be_v no_o equity_n in_o it_o that_o the_o protestant_n shall_v be_v judge_n in_o their_o own_o cause_n but_o now_o upon_o more_o deliberation_n a._n c._n 57_o tell_v we_o as_o if_o he_o know_v the_o jesuit_n mind_n as_o well_o as_o himself_o as_o sure_o i_o think_v he_o do_v that_o the_o jesuit_n direct_v this_o question_n chief_o against_o that_o speech_n of_o i_o that_o there_o be_v error_n in_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n and_o that_o in_o the_o general_n church_n as_o the_o jesuit_n understand_v my_o meaning_n the_o jesuit_n here_o take_v my_o meaning_n right_o for_o i_o confess_v i_o say_v there_o be_v error_n in_o doctrine_n and_o dangerous_a one_o too_o in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n i_o say_v likewise_o that_o when_o the_o general_a church_n can_v not_o or_o will_v not_o reform_v such_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o particular_a church_n to_o reform_v themselves_o but_o then_o i_o add_v that_o the_o general_n church_n not_o universal_o take_v but_o in_o these_o western_a part_n fall_v into_o those_o error_n be_v sway_v in_o these_o late_a age_n by_o the_o predominant_a power_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n under_o who_o government_n it_o be_v for_o the_o most_o part_n force_v and_o all_o man_n of_o understanding_n know_v how_o oft_o and_o how_o easy_o a_o over-potent_a member_n carry_v the_o whole_a with_o it_o in_o any_o body_n natural_a politic_a or_o ecclesiastical_a num._n 4_o yea_o but_o a._n c._n tell_v we_o that_o never_o any_o competent_a judge_n do_v so_o censure_v the_o church_n and_o indeed_o that_o no_o power_n on_o earth_n or_o 57_o in_o hell_n itself_o can_v so_o far_o prevail_v against_o the_o general_n church_n as_o to_o make_v it_o err_v general_o in_o any_o one_o point_n of_o divine_a truth_n and_o much_o less_o to_o teach_v any_o thing_n by_o its_o full_a authority_n to_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o faith_n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o divine_a truth_n express_v or_o involve_v in_o scripture_n right_o understand_v and_o that_o therefore_o no_o reformation_n of_o faith_n can_v be_v needful_a in_o the_o general_n church_n but_o only_o in_o particular_a church_n and_o for_o proof_n of_o this_o he_o cite_v s._n mat._n 16._o and_o 28._o s._n luk._n 22._o s._n john_n 14._o and_o 16._o in_o this_o troublesome_a and_o quarrel_a age_n i_o be_o most_o unwilling_a to_o meddle_v with_o the_o err_v of_o the_o church_n in_o general_n the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v content_a to_o pass_v that_o over_o and_o though_o 19_o she_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v err_v even_o in_o matter_n of_o faith_n yet_o of_o the_o err_v of_o the_o church_n in_o general_n she_o be_v modest_o silent_a but_o since_o a._n c._n will_v needs_o have_v it_o that_o the_o whole_a church_n do_v never_o general_o err_v in_o any_o one_o point_n of_o faith_n he_o shall_v do_v well_o to_o distinguish_v before_o he_o be_v so_o peremptory_a for_o if_o he_o mean_v no_o more_o than_o that_o the_o whole_a universal_a church_n of_o christ_n can_v universal_o err_v in_o any_o one_o point_n of_o faith_n simple_o necessary_a to_o all_o man_n salvation_n he_o fight_v against_o no_o adversary_n that_o i_o know_v but_o his_o own_o fiction_n for_o the_o most_o 5._o lear_z n_v protestant_n grant_v it_o but_o if_o he_o mean_v that_o the_o whole_a church_n can_v err_v in_o any_o one_o point_n of_o divine_a truth_n in_o general_n which_o though_o by_o sundry_a consequence_n deduce_v from_o the_o principle_n be_v yet_o make_v a_o point_n of_o faith_n and_o may_v prove_v dangerous_a to_o the_o salvation_n of_o some_o which_o believe_v it_o and_o practice_v after_o it_o as_o his_o word_n seem_v to_o import_v especial_o if_o in_o these_o the_o church_n shall_v presume_v to_o determine_v without_o her_o proper_a guide_n the_o scripture_n as_o 58._o bellarm._n say_v she_o may_v and_o yet_o not_o err_v then_o perhaps_o it_o may_v be_v say_v and_o without_o any_o wrong_n to_o the_o catholic_a church_n that_o the_o whole_a militant_a church_n have_v
of_o all_o doubt_n for_o if_o there_o be_v reason_n of_o doubt_v the_o one_o there_o be_v as_o much_o reason_n of_o doubt_v the_o other_o since_o they_o stand_v both_o on_o the_o same_o foot_n the_o validity_n of_o christ_n prayer_n for_o saint_n peter_n num._n 17_o yea_o but_o christ_n charge_v s._n peter_n to_o govern_v and_o feed_v his_o whole_a stock_n s._n john_n 21._o nay_o soft_a it_o be_v but_o his_o sheep_n and_o his_o 151_o lamb_n and_o that_o every_o apostle_n and_o every_o apostle_n successor_n have_v charge_n to_o do_v all_o s._n matth._n 28._o but_o over_o the_o whole_a flock_n i_o find_v no_o one_o apostle_n or_o successor_n set_v and_o it_o be_v a_o poor_a shift_n to_o say_v as_o a._n c._n do_v that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n be_v 58._o set_v over_o the_o whole_a flock_n because_o both_o over_o lamb_n and_o sheep_n for_o in_o every_o flock_n that_o be_v not_o of_o barren_a wether_n there_o be_v lamb_n and_o sheep_n that_o be_v be_v weak_a and_o strong_a christian_n not_o people_n and_o pastor_n subject_n and_o governor_n as_o a._n c._n expound_v it_o to_o bring_v the_o neck_n of_o prince_n under_o roman_a pride_n and_o if_o king_n be_v mean_v yet_o then_o the_o command_n be_v pasce_fw-la feed_v they_o but_o deponere_fw-la or_o occidere_fw-la to_o depose_v or_o kill_v they_o be_v not_o pascere_fw-la in_o any_o sense_n lanii_fw-la id_fw-la est_fw-la non_fw-la pastoris_fw-la that_o be_v the_o butcher_n not_o the_o shepherd_n part_n if_o a_o a_o sheep_n go_v astray_o never_o so_o far_o it_o be_v not_o the_o shepherd_n part_n to_o kill_v he_o at_o least_o if_o he_o do_v non_fw-la pascit_fw-la dum_fw-la oâ—cidit_fw-la he_o do_v not_o certain_o feed_v while_o he_o kill_v num._n 18_o and_o for_o the_o close_a that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n shall_v never_o refuse_v 58._o to_o feed_v and_o govern_v the_o whole_a stock_n in_o such_o sort_n as_o that_o neither_o particular_a man_n nor_o church_n shall_v have_v just_a cause_n under_o pretence_n of_o 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the_o error_n in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n which_o be_v charge_v upon_o the_o whole_a church_n at_o least_o so_o much_o of_o the_o whole_a as_o in_o these_o part_n of_o europe_n have_v be_v keep_v under_o the_o roman_a jurisdiction_n have_v have_v their_o original_a and_o continuance_n from_o this_o that_o so_o much_o of_o the_o universal_a church_n which_o indeed_o they_o account_v all_o have_v forget_v she_o own_o liberty_n and_o submit_v to_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o bishop_n and_o so_o be_v in_o a_o manner_n force_v to_o embrace_v all_o the_o corruption_n which_o the_o particular_a church_n of_o rome_n have_v contract_v upon_o itself_o and_o be_v now_o not_o able_a to_o free_v herself_o from_o the_o roman_a jurisdiction_n be_v make_v to_o continue_v also_o in_o all_o her_o corruption_n and_o for_o the_o protestant_n they_o have_v make_v no_o separation_n from_o the_o general_n church_n proper_o so_o call_v for_o therein_o a._n c._n say_v well_o 58._o the_o pope_n administration_n can_v give_v no_o cause_n to_o separate_v from_o that_o but_o their_o separation_n be_v only_o from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o such_o other_o church_n as_o by_o adhere_v to_o she_o have_v hazard_v themselves_o and_o do_v now_o miscall_v themselves_o the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n nay_o even_o here_o the_o protestant_n have_v not_o leave_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o her_o essence_n but_o in_o her_o error_n not_o in_o the_o thing_n which_o constitute_v a_o church_n but_o only_o in_o such_o abuse_n and_o corruption_n as_o work_v towards_o the_o dissolution_n of_o a_o church_n f._n i_o also_o ask_v who_o ought_v to_o judge_v in_o this_o case_n the_o b._n say_v a_o general_n council_n b._n §_o 26_o num._n 1_o and_o sure_o what_o great_a or_o sure_a judgement_n you_o can_v have_v where_o sense_n of_o scripture_n be_v doubt_v than_o a_o general_n council_n i_o do_v not_o see_v nor_o do_v you_o doubt_v and_o a._n c._n grant_v 59_o it_o to_o be_v a_o most_o competent_a judge_n of_o all_o controversy_n of_o faith_n so_o that_o all_o pastor_n be_v gather_v together_o and_o in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n and_o pray_v unanimous_o for_o the_o promise_a assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o make_v great_a and_o diligent_a search_n and_o examination_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o other_o ground_n of_o faith_n and_o then_o decree_n what_o be_v to_o be_v hold_v for_o divine_a truth_n for_o then_o say_v he_o it_o be_v firm_a and_o infallible_a or_o else_o there_o be_v nothing_o firm_a upon_o earth_n as_o fair_a as_o this_o passage_n seem_v and_o as_o free_o as_o i_o have_v grant_v that_o a_o general_n council_n be_v the_o best_a judge_n on_o earth_n where_o the_o sense_n of_o scripture_n be_v doubt_v yet_o even_o in_o this_o passage_n there_o be_v some_o thing_n considerable_a as_o first_o when_o shall_v the_o church_n hope_v for_o such_o a_o general_n council_n in_o which_o all_o pastor_n shall_v be_v gather_v together_o there_o be_v never_o any_o such_o general_n council_n yet_o nor_o do_v i_o believe_v such_o can_v be_v have_v so_o that_o be_v suppose_v in_o vain_a and_o you_o may_v have_v learn_v this_o of_o 1._o bellarmine_n if_o you_o will_v not_o believe_v i_o next_o say_v he_o if_o all_o these_o pastor_n pray_v unanimous_o for_o the_o promise_a assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n why_o but_o if_o all_o pastor_n can_v meet_v together_o all_o can_v pray_v together_o nor_o all_o search_n the_o scripture_n together_o nor_o all_o upon_o that_o search_n decree_v together_o so_o that_o be_v suppose_v in_o vain_a too_o yea_o but_o three_o if_o all_o that_o meet_v do_v pray_v unanimous_o what_o then_o all_o that_o meet_v be_v not_o simple_o all_o nor_o do_v the_o holy_a ghost_n come_v and_o give_v his_o assistance_n upon_o every_o prayer_n that_o be_v make_v unanimous_o though_o by_o very_o many_o prelate_n or_o other_o faithful_a people_n meet_v together_o unless_o all_o other_o requisite_n as_o well_o as_o 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pronounce_v by_o the_o church_n and_o there_o be_v a_o visible_a and_o a_o live_a judge_n but_o not_o infallible_a and_o that_o be_v a_o general_n council_n lawful_o call_v and_o so_o proceed_v but_o i_o know_v no_o formal_a confirmation_n of_o it_o needful_a though_o a._n c._n require_v it_o 6._o but_o only_a that_o after_o it_o be_v end_v the_o whole_a church_n admit_v it_o be_v it_o never_o so_o tacit_o num._n 2_o in_o the_o next_o place_n a._n c._n interpose_n new_a matter_n quite_o out_o of_o 60._o the_o conference_n and_o first_o in_o case_n of_o distraction_n and_o disunion_n in_o the_o church_n he_o will_v know_v what_o be_v to_o be_v do_v to_o reunite_a when_o a_o general_a council_n which_o be_v acknowledge_v a_o fit_a judge_n can_v be_v have_v by_o reason_n of_o manifold_a impediment_n or_o
that_o it_o will_v call_v again_o and_o reform_v yea_o and_o if_o need_n be_v abrogate_v any_o law_n or_o ordinance_n upon_o just_a cause_n make_v evident_a that_o this_o represent_v body_n have_v fail_v in_o trust_n or_o truth_n and_o this_o power_n no_o body_n collective_a ecclesiastical_a or_o civil_a can_v put_v out_o of_o itself_o or_o give_v away_o to_o a_o parliament_n or_o council_n or_o call_v it_o what_o you_o will_v that_o represent_v it_o nay_o in_o my_o consideration_n it_o hold_v strong_a in_o the_o church_n for_o a_o council_n have_v power_n to_o order_n settle_v and_o define_v difference_n arisen_a concern_v faith_n this_o power_n the_o council_n have_v not_o by_o any_o immediate_a institution_n from_o christ_n but_o it_o be_v prudent_o take_v up_o in_o the_o church_n from_o the_o 3._o apostle_n example_n so_o that_o to_o hold_v counsel_n to_o this_o end_n be_v apparent_a apostolical_a tradition_n write_v but_o the_o power_n which_o counsel_n so_o hold_v have_v be_v from_o the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n who_o member_n they_o be_v and_o the_o church_n power_n front_n god_n and_o conciliorâ—m_fw-la this_o power_n the_o church_n can_v far_o give_v away_o to_o a_o general_n council_n than_o that_o the_o decree_n of_o it_o shall_v bind_v all_o particular_n and_o itself_o but_o not_o bind_v the_o whole_a church_n from_o call_v again_o and_o in_o the_o after-calls_a upon_o just_a cause_n to_o order_n yea_o and_o if_o need_v be_v to_o abrogate_v former_a acts._n i_o say_v upon_o just_a cause_n for_o if_o the_o council_n be_v lawful_o call_v and_o proceed_v orderly_a and_o conclude_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n the_o scripture_n the_o whole_a church_n can_v but_o approve_v the_o council_n and_o then_o the_o definition_n of_o it_o be_v bind_v and_o the_o power_n of_o the_o church_n have_v no_o wrong_n in_o this_o so_o long_o as_o no_o power_n but_o her_o own_o may_v meddle_v or_o offer_v to_o infringe_v any_o definition_n of_o she_o make_v in_o her_o 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may_v err_v with_o you_o if_o the_o pope_n confirm_v it_o not_o so_o belike_o this_o infallibility_n rest_v not_o in_o the_o representative_a body_n the_o council_n nor_o in_o the_o whole_a body_n the_o church_n but_o in_o your_o head_n of_o the_o church_n the_o pope_n of_o rome_n now_o i_o may_v ask_v you_o to_o what_o end_n such_o a_o trouble_n for_o a_o general_n council_n or_o wherein_o be_v we_o near_o to_o unity_n if_o the_o pope_n confirm_v it_o not_o you_o answer_v though_o not_o in_o the_o conference_n yet_o elsewhere_o that_o the_o pope_n err_v not_o especial_o give_v sentence_n in_o a_o general_n council_n and_o why_o especial_o do_v the_o deliberation_n of_o a_o council_n help_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o conclusion_n sure_o not_o in_o your_o opinion_n for_o you_o hold_v the_o conclusion_n prophetical_a the_o mean_n fallible_a and_o fallible_a deliberation_n can_v advance_v to_o a_o prophetic_a conclusion_n and_o just_o as_o the_o council_n be_v in_o stapleton_n judgement_n for_o the_o definition_n and_o the_o proof_n so_o be_v the_o pope_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o etc._n melch._n canus_n and_o they_o which_o follow_v he_o prophetical_a in_o the_o conclusion_n the_o council_n than_o be_v call_v but_o only_o in_o effect_n to_o hear_v the_o pope_n give_v his_o sentence_n in_o more_o state_n else_o what_o mean_v this_o of_o etc._n stapleton_n the_o pope_n by_o a_o council_n join_v unto_o he_o acquire_v no_o new_a power_n or_o authority_n or_o certainty_n in_o judge_v no_o more_o than_o a_o head_n be_v the_o wise_a by_o join_v the_o office_n of_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o member_n to_o it_o than_o it_o be_v without_o they_o or_o this_o of_o concilio_n bellarmine_n that_o the_o firmness_n and_o infallibility_n of_o a_o general_n council_n be_v only_o from_o the_o pope_n not_o partly_o from_o the_o pope_n and_o partly_o from_o the_o council_n so_o belike_o the_o presence_n be_v necessary_a not_o the_o assistance_n which_o opinion_n be_v the_o most_o groundless_a and_o worthless_a that_o ever_o offer_v to_o take_v possession_n of_o the_o christian_a church_n and_o i_o be_o persuade_v many_o learned_a man_n among_o yourselves_o scorn_v it_o at_o the_o very_a heart_n and_o i_o avow_v it_o i_o have_v hear_v some_o learned_a and_o judicious_a roman_a catholic_n utter_o condemn_v it_o and_o well_o they_o may_v for_o no_o man_n can_v affirm_v it_o but_o he_o shall_v make_v himself_o a_o scorn_n to_o all_o the_o learned_a man_n of_o christendom_n who_o judgement_n be_v not_o captivate_v by_o roman_a power_n and_o for_o my_o own_o part_n i_o be_o clear_a of_o fiâ—â—_n jacobus_n almain_n opinion_n and_o a_o great_a wonder_n it_o be_v to_o i_o that_o they_o which_o affirm_v the_o pope_n can_v err_v do_v not_o affirm_v likewise_o that_o he_o can_v sin_v and_o i_o very_o believe_v they_o will_v be_v bold_a enough_o to_o affirm_v it_o do_v not_o the_o daily_a work_n of_o the_o pope_n compel_v they_o to_o believe_v the_o contrary_a for_o very_o many_o of_o they_o have_v lead_v live_v quite_o contrary_a to_o the_o gospel_n of_o christ._n nay_o such_o life_n as_o no_o epicurean_a monster_n story_v out_o to_o the_o world_n have_v outgo_v they_o in_o sensuality_n or_o other_o gross_a impiety_n if_o their_o own_o historian_n be_v true_a take_v your_o choice_n of_o corum_fw-la john_n the_o thirteen_o about_o the_o year_n 966._o or_o of_o sylvester_n the_o second_o about_o the_o year_n 999._o or_o john_n the_o eighteen_o about_o the_o year_n 1003._o or_o benedict_n the_o nine_o about_o the_o year_n 1033._o or_o boniface_n the_o eight_o about_o the_o year_n 1294._o or_o alexander_n the_o six_o about_o the_o year_n 1492._o and_o yet_o these_o and_o their_o like_a must_v be_v infallible_a in_o their_o dictate_v and_o conclusion_n of_o faith_n do_v your_o own_o believe_v it_o sure_o no._n for_o ergo_fw-la alphonsus_n à _fw-fr castro_n tell_v we_o plain_o that_o he_o do_v not_o believe_v that_o any_o man_n can_v be_v so_o gross_a and_o impudent_a a_o flatterer_n of_o the_o pope_n as_o to_o attribute_v this_o unto_o he_o that_o he_o can_v neither_o err_v nor_o mistake_v in_o expound_v the_o holy_a scripture_n this_o come_v home_o and_o therefore_o it_o may_v well_o be_v think_v it_o have_v take_v a_o shrewd_a purge_n for_o these_o word_n be_v express_a in_o the_o edition_n at_o paris_n 1534._o but_o they_o be_v not_o to_o be_v find_v in_o that_o at_o colen_n 1539._o nor_o in_o that_o at_o antwerp_n 1556._o nor_o in_o that_o at_o paris_n 1571._o 64._o harding_n say_v indeed_o alphonsus_n leave_v it_o out_o of_o himself_o in_o the_o follow_a edition_n well_o first_o harding_n say_v this_o but_o prove_v it_o not_o so_o i_o may_v choose_v whether_o i_o will_v believe_v he_o or_o no._n second_o be_v it_o so_o that_o he_o do_v that_o can_v help_v their_o cause_n a_o whit_n for_o say_v he_o do_v mislike_v the_o sharpness_n of_o the_o phrase_n or_o aught_o else_o in_o this_o speech_n yet_o he_o alter_v not_o his_o judgement_n of_o the_o thing_n for_o in_o all_o these_o late_a edition_n he_o speak_v as_o home_n if_o not_o more_o than_o in_o the_o first_o and_o say_v express_o ibid._n that_o the_o pope_n may_v err_v not_o only_o as_o a_o private_a person_n but_o as_o pope_n and_o in_o difficult_a case_n he_o add_v that_o the_o pope_n ought_v to_o consult_v viros_fw-la doctos_fw-la man_n of_o learning_n and_o this_o also_o be_v the_o opinion_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n of_o christ_n concern_v the_o pope_n and_o his_o infallibility_n for_o thus_o liberius_n and_o he_o â—_o pope_n himself_o write_v to_o athanasius_n brother_n athanasius_n if_o you_o think_v in_o the_o presence_n of_o god_n and_o christ_n as_o i_o do_v i_o pray_v subscribe_v this_o confession_n which_o be_v think_v to_o be_v the_o true_a faith_n of_o the_o holy_a catholic_a and_o apostolic_a church_n that_o
define_v any_o one_o divine_a truth_n how_o can_v we_o be_v infallible_o certain_a of_o any_o other_o truth_n define_v by_o it_o for_o if_o it_o may_v err_v in_o one_o 15._o why_o not_o in_o another_o and_o another_o and_o so_o in_o all_o it_o be_v most_o true_a if_o such_o a_o council_n may_v err_v in_o one_o it_o may_v in_o another_o and_o another_o and_o so_o in_o all_o of_o like_a nature_n i_o say_v in_o all_o of_o like_a nature_n and_o a._n c._n may_v remember_v he_o express_v himself_o a_o little_a 71._o before_o to_o speak_v of_o the_o define_v of_o such_o divine_a truth_n as_o be_v not_o absolute_o necessary_a to_o be_v express_o know_v and_o actual_o believe_v of_o all_o sort_n of_o man_n now_o there_o be_v there_o can_v be_v no_o necessity_n of_o a_o infallible_a certainty_n in_o the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n and_o much_o less_o in_o a_o general_n council_n of_o thing_n not_o 5._o absolute_o necessary_a in_o themselves_o for_o christ_n do_v not_o intend_v to_o leave_v a_o infallibe_n certainty_n in_o his_o church_n to_o satisfy_v either_o contentious_a or_o curious_a or_o presumptuous_a spirit_n and_o therefore_o in_o thing_n not_o fundamental_a not_o necessary_a it_o be_v no_o matter_n if_o counsel_n err_v in_o one_o and_o another_o and_o a_o three_o the_o whole_a church_n have_v power_n and_o mean_n enough_o to_o see_v that_o no_o council_n err_v in_o necessary_a thing_n and_o this_o be_v certainty_n enough_o for_o the_o church_n to_o have_v or_o for_o christian_n to_o expect_v especial_o since_o the_o foundation_n be_v so_o strong_o and_o so_o plain_o lay_v down_o in_o scripture_n and_o the_o creed_n that_o a_o modest_a man_n may_v just_o wonder_v why_o any_o man_n shall_v run_v to_o any_o late_a council_n at_o least_o for_o any_o infallible_a certainty_n num._n 22_o yet_o a._n c._n have_v more_o question_n to_o ask_v and_o his_o next_o be_v how_o 72._o we_o can_v according_a to_o the_o ordinary_a course_n be_v infallible_o assure_v that_o it_o err_v in_o one_o and_o not_o in_o another_o when_o it_o equal_o by_o one_o and_o the_o same_o authority_n define_v both_o to_o be_v divine_a truth_n a._n c._n take_v here_o upon_o he_o to_o defend_v m._n fisher_n the_o jesuit_n can_v not_o but_o see_v what_o i_o have_v former_o write_v concern_v this_o difficult_a question_n about_o general_a counsel_n and_o to_o all_o that_o be_v large_a he_o reply_v little_a or_o nothing_o now_o when_o he_o think_v that_o may_v be_v forget_v or_o as_o if_o he_o do_v not_o at_o all_o lie_n in_o his_o way_n he_o here_o turn_v questionist_n to_o disturb_v that_o business_n and_o indeed_o the_o church_n as_o much_o as_o he_o can_v but_o to_o this_o question_n also_o i_o answer_v again_o if_o any_o general_a council_n do_v now_o err_v either_o it_o err_v in_o thing_n absolute_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n or_o in_o thing_n not_o necessary_a if_o it_o err_v in_o thing_n necessary_a we_o can_v be_v infallible_o assure_v by_o the_o scripture_n the_o creed_n the_o four_o first_o counsel_n and_o the_o whole_a church_n where_o it_o err_v in_o one_o and_o not_o in_o another_o if_o it_o be_v in_o non_fw-fr necessariis_fw-la in_o thing_n not_o necessary_a it_o be_v not_o requisite_a that_o we_o shall_v have_v for_o they_o a_o infallible_a assurance_n as_o for_o that_o which_o follow_v it_o be_v notorious_o both_o cunning_a and_o false_a it_o be_v false_a to_o suppose_v that_o a_o general_n council_n define_v two_o thing_n for_o divine_a truth_n and_o err_v in_o one_o but_o not_o err_v in_o another_o do_v define_v both_o equal_o by_o one_o and_o the_o same_o authority_n and_o it_o be_v cunning_a because_o these_o word_n by_o the_o same_o authority_n be_v equivocal_a and_o must_v be_v distinguish_v that_o the_o truth_n which_o a._n c._n will_v hide_v may_v appear_v thus_o then_o suppose_v a_o general_n council_n err_v in_o one_o point_n and_o not_o in_o another_o it_o do_v define_v both_o and_o equal_o by_o the_o same_o delegated_a authority_n which_o that_o council_n have_v receive_v from_o the_o catholic_a church_n but_o it_o do_v not_o define_v both_o and_o much_o less_o equal_o by_o the_o same_o authority_n of_o the_o scripture_n which_o must_v be_v the_o counsel_n rule_n as_o well_o as_o private_a man_n no_o nor_o by_o the_o same_o authority_n of_o the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n who_o do_v not_o intentional_o give_v they_o equal_a power_n to_o define_v truth_n and_o error_n for_o truth_n and_o i_o hope_v a._n c._n dare_v not_o say_v the_o scripture_n according_a to_o which_o all_o counsel_n that_o will_v uphold_v divine_a truth_n must_v determine_v do_v equal_o give_v either_o ground_n or_o power_n to_o define_v error_n and_o truth_n num._n 23_o to_o his_o former_a question_n a._n c._n add_v that_o if_o we_o leave_v this_o to_o 72._o be_v examine_v by_o any_o private_a man_n this_o examination_n not_o be_v infallible_a have_v need_n to_o be_v examine_v by_o another_o and_o this_o by_o another_o without_o end_n or_o ever_o come_v to_o infallible_a certainty_n necessary_o require_v in_o that_o one_o faith_n which_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o to_o that_o peace_n and_o unity_n which_o ought_v to_o be_v in_o the_o church_n will_v this_o inculcate_v the_o same_o thing_n never_o be_v leave_v i_o tell_v the_o jesuit_n 4._o before_o that_o i_o give_v no_o way_n to_o any_o private_a man_n to_o be_v judge_n of_o a_o general_n council_n and_o there_o also_o i_o show_v the_o way_n how_o a_o err_a council_n may_v be_v rectify_v and_o the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n either_o preserve_v or_o restore_v without_o lift_v any_o private_a spirit_n above_o a_o council_n and_o without_o this_o process_n in_o infinitum_fw-la which_o a._n c._n so_o much_o urge_v and_o which_o be_v so_o much_o decline_v in_o all_o 14._o science_n for_o as_o the_o understanding_n of_o a_o man_n must_v always_o have_v somewhat_o to_o rest_n upon_o so_o must_v his_o faith_n but_o a_o 15._o private_a man_n first_o for_o his_o own_o satisfaction_n and_o after_o for_o the_o church_n if_o he_o have_v just_a cause_n may_v consider_v of_o and_o examine_v by_o the_o priâ—_n judgement_n of_o discretion_n though_o not_o of_o power_n even_o the_o definition_n of_o a_o general_n council_n but_o a._n c._n conclude_v well_o that_o a_o infallible_a certainty_n be_v necessary_a for_o that_o one_o faith_n which_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o of_o that_o as_o i_o express_v 1._o before_o a_o most_o infallible_a certainty_n we_o have_v already_o in_o the_o scripture_n the_o creed_n and_o the_o four_o first_o general_n counsel_n to_o which_o for_o thing_n necessary_a and_o fundamental_a in_o the_o faith_n we_o need_v no_o assistance_n from_o other_o general_a counsel_n and_o some_o of_o your_o faith_n own_o very_o honest_a and_o very_a learned_a be_v of_o the_o same_o opinion_n with_o i_o and_o for_o the_o peace_n and_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n in_o thing_n absolute_o necessary_a we_o have_v the_o same_o infallible_a direction_n that_o we_o have_v for_o faith_n but_o in_o thing_n not_o necessary_a though_o they_o be_v divine_a truth_n also_o if_o about_o they_o christian_a man_n do_v differ_v it_o be_v no_o more_o than_o they_o have_v do_v more_o or_o less_o in_o all_o age_n of_o the_o church_n and_o they_o may_v differ_v and_o yet_o preserve_v the_o â—_o one_o necessary_a faith_n and_o 2._o charity_n too_o entire_a if_o they_o be_v so_o well_o mind_v i_o confess_v it_o be_v hearty_o to_o be_v wish_v that_o in_o these_o thing_n also_o man_n may_v be_v all_o of_o one_o mind_n and_o one_o judgement_n to_o which_o the_o apostle_n exhort_v 2._o 1_o cor._n 1._o but_o this_o can_v be_v hope_v for_o till_o the_o church_n be_v triumphant_a over_o all_o humane_a frailty_n which_o here_o hang_v thick_a and_o close_o about_o she_o the_o want_n both_o of_o unity_n and_o peace_n proceed_v too_o often_o even_o where_o religion_n be_v pretend_v from_o man_n and_o their_o humour_n rather_o than_o from_o thing_n and_o error_n to_o be_v find_v in_o they_o num._n 24_o and_o so_o a._n c._n tell_v i_o that_o it_o be_v not_o therefore_o as_o i_o will_v persuade_v 72._o the_o fault_n of_o counsel_n definition_n but_o the_o pride_n of_o such_o as_o will_v prefer_v and_o not_o submit_v their_o private_a judgement_n that_o lose_v and_o continue_v the_o loss_n of_o peace_n and_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o want_n of_o certainty_n in_o that_o one_o aforesaid_a soulsaving_a faith_n once_o again_o i_o be_o bold_a to_o tell_v a._n c._n there_o be_v no_o want_n of_o certainty_n most_o infallible_a certainty_n of_o that_o one_o soulsaving_a faith_n and_o if_o for_o other_o opinion_n which_o flutter_v about_o it_o there_o be_v a_o difference_n a_o dangerous_a difference_n as_o at_o this_o day_n there_o be_v yet_o