Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	body_n	nature_n	power_n	1,617	5	4.8157	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A14406	Actes of conference in religion, holden at Paris, betweene two papist doctours of Sorbone, and two godlie ministers of the Church. Dravven out of French into English, by Geffraie Fenton; Actes de la dispute & conference tenue à Paris. English.	Fenton, Geoffrey, Sir, 1539?-1608.; Vigor, Simon, d. 1575.; Sainctes, Claude de, 1525-1591.; Du Rosier, Hugues Sureau.; L'Espine, Jean de, ca. 1506-1597.	1571 (1571)	STC 24726.5; ESTC S112583	180,168	252

weighty remaining in his substance and natural heauinesse coulde not by Goddes almightinesse be suspended on highe but that it must encline downwaede notwithstanding it were against his nature and inclination For the rest touching the answere to many Articles concerning twoo bodyes to be in one place and the places of Holy Scripture and Anciente Authoures produced by the Doctours to proue that it was in Goddes power to make twoo bodyes to be in one onely place and by the like reason that it was also in the same power to bring to passe that one body of the contrary be in twoo places we saie for the firste that the Ministers doo wrong to denie this Consequence twoo bodyes maie be in one place by Goddes power then of the contrary one bodye by the same power maye be in twoo places for there is asmuche repugnancie of Goddes order established in the one as in the other and no lesse contradiction in nature grounded vpon one cause and reason which is in the lymitation and circumscription of a bodye to the whiche as it is naturall to be in place so is it natural to him to be in place proportioned and corespondent to his dimensions And if for the number of diuerse places where one body were it might be inferred that it were no more a body as implying contradiction euen by the same reason according to one onely place where were many bodyes it coulde not be inferred that they were no more bodyes than many bodyes were one whiche woulde implie like contradiction to the firste And where the Ministers denie the Antecedent which is that twoo bodyes maye be in one place we haue produced to proue it the text of the doores being shut the byrth of the body of our Lord of the Virgyn the comming out of the Sepulcher the passage of a Camell through the creuis of a Néedle the penetration of the heauens which Iesus made at his Ascension and bicause they deny these doings conteined expressely in the holy scripture interpreted by the ancient Christians depraue it at their pleasure the Doctoures auouch againe vpon the textes of those Scripture as foloweth Firste touching the doores shutte S. Iohn saithe that Iesus is come He meanes to the place where his Disciples were neither came he thither without entring for that wer a more greate myracle to be in the middest of them without entring than to enter there simply In the seconde place it is saide ●um f●res essent clausa or tanuis clausis which is to say He entred the doores being shutte neither dothe it appeare that the Scripture makes mentiō rather of the doores than of an other place but to shewe on what part he entred Thirdly the Scripture addes not in vaine that the doores were shut without saying that any opening was made myraculously for it is alwaies saide ●●od venit tanuis clausis And if it were true that the doores had bene opened by Diuine vertue it shoulde be false that our Lorde entred tanu●s ●●rsis● for then shoulde he haue entred tanuis apertis by what meanes so euer they had bene opened And to declare that the common consent of all the Auncientes hathe bene that Iesus entred by the doores shutte the Doctoures preferre foure fundations drawne cute of the Auncientes In the firste they all confesse expressely that the myracle of the entring was made in the Bodye of Iesus Christe The seconde that suche myracle was done aboue the nature of the Bodye by the vertue of god The thirde is that expressely the Auncientes iudge that in that did consiste the myracle that the bodye passed throughe the doores shutte and was so with an other body And for the fourth fundation they adde that in regarde of suche an entring the Apostles taught that the bodye of Iesus was no true bodye but a Sprite or Vision whiche the Ministers passe lightely withoute aunswere But if it be so that by Goddes power as the Ministers holde there was made an opening either by the doores or other parte of the house to giue entring to the bodye of Iesus Christe then the myracle shoulde not consiste in the saide Bodye but in the doores or other parte of the house whiche were opened and yet there was nothing contrarie to the nature of the Bodye of our Lorde for it resistes not any Bodye what so euer it be to enter by an opening made by myracle or otherwayes Be it that Iustine is not the Authour of the Questions againste the Gentiles yet it cannot be denyed that they were not of some Aunciente Christians of the Primitiue Churche And the Doctoures haue attributed them to him on whose name they be entituled onely the saide Iustine in the place alleaged makes the myracle to haue passed in the Bodye of Iesus Christe whiche being grosse and thicke entred throughe the shutte doores againste the nature of a Bodye by the power of God and therefore the Apostles estéemed it to be a Vision by reason of an entry made withoute opening as Sprites are woonte to enter Sée the Texte S. Hilary dothe not onely saie that he entred by the Omnipotencie of God in what sorte so euer it be as the Ministers séeke to turne and wrest his authoritie but as one that had euen nowe to doo with the Ministers he repulseth and scoffes at al their euasions subtilties whiche they contriue of this dooing He saithe that nothing gaue place to make opening to suche a bodye neither loste he any thing of his substance nor to enter was in nothing diminished He addes that the doores and all other openings were closed and faste barred and yet in this lyeth the myracle that the true naturall body of Iesus Christe againste his nature by the Omnipotencie of God entred a house faste closed and couered without any opening by whiche he shewes apparantly that the myracle consisted in the Body of Iesus Christe Herein we referre to the texte which we desire to be wel examined by the Ministers S. Ambrose in the place recited saith that S. Thomas was abashed when he sawe the Bodye of Iesus Christe enter Per inuia septa corporibus quod natura corporea per impenitrabile Corpus sese infuderit inuisibili aditu S. Chrysostome in the Homilie of S. Iohn Baptiste and in his Commentaries vppon the Gospell of S. Iohn saithe expressely Qui intrauit per ostia clausa non erat Phantasma non erat Spiritus verè corpus erat Quid enim dicitis respicite videte quia Spiritus carnem ossa non habet quae me habere videtis Habebat carnē habebat ossa clausa erāt omnia Quomodo clausis ostijs intrauerunt ossa caro clausa sunt omnia intrat quem intrantem non vidimus Nescis quomodo factum sit das hoc potentiae Dei Where without difficultie S. Chrysostome as also S. Ambrose confesse the myracle to be done in the Body of Iesus Christe in that he passed through

conteined comparison of two Reuelations of the spirite the one made to the body and the other to the members which they maintaine to be of equal value touching the certaintie and in the confession is mention made of the Reuelation of Gods spirite which causeth the consent of the Churche which foloweth thereof as the effecte And if it be so that the cause being preferred afore his effect there is greate reason that the Reuelation of the spirite of God compared with the consent of the Churche should be preferred afore it as the cause to the effect which it produceth And touching the cōtrarietie which they pretend in Confessions Printed in diuers seasons and by sundrie Printers they shall be Aunswered when their pleasure is to debate the Articles particularly Question Where they made a doubt of the true Church euen the like may be said of the Reuelations pretēded of Gods spirit to particular men whom also we may dout whether they be members of the Church or not Touching the other point where they denie to impugne the fourthe Article of their Confession there séemes no small contradiction as comparing the particular Reuelation with the consent of the church as appeareth by their Aunswere it séemes also to serue to small purpose where they alledge the Reuelation to be the cause of the consent preferring it afore the same as the cause afore the effecte the same séeming as who should say the Reuelation is to be preferred afore the word of God and holy scripture for it is moste certaine that the Reuelation goeth before the woorde and scripture And as it appeares in the texte of the Confession which may be easily iudged the Authors of the same speake of the certaintie and infallibilitie of two Reuelations as holding themselues more assured of that they haue in their spirite than that which is of the iudgemēt of the churche Touching the other pointe that particulare men may sometimes faile when Gods spirite leaues them we may conclude by that we ought not to rest infallibly vpon the inspirations pretended of particulare men bicause it may be douted whether they be forsaken of Gods spirite or not which we can not do of the Church therefore it is more assured to stay vpon the Churche infallibly gouerned by the holy spirite than vpon the priuate pretended inspirations which the Catholikes do not folowing their priuate iudgement and therfore can not be estéemed fantastike but rather such are guiltie of that name who prefer their proper iudgement which they couer with the title of particulare inspiration The Doctors require a texte of the Scripture by the which the holy spirite is promised to euery particulare person as to the vniuersal church therby to know how to iudge and discerne what be the scriptures Aunsvvere Touching the first pointe as in déede we do not approue all churches to be true which are so said euen so we allowe not for faithfull suche as vaunt them selues to be so For the second the comparison of the Doctoures is improper in this pointe as who should say the Reuelation is to be preferred afore the woorde of god c. Bicause Gods worde and all the writings aswel of the Prophetes as Apostles are as so many Reuelations of Gods spirite and that betweene the one and the other there is no more difference than betweene genus and species Touching the Article that the Reuelation goeth before the scripture we muste distinguishe betwéene the Reuelations made to the Prophets before they committed them to writing and those which are made to them that read their writings to vnderstande them For the first we confesse they goe before the scripture and for the seconde we say they folowe it Touching the third Article the ministers Aunswere that it is easie to iudge whether Gods spirite assist a particulare man or whether he be drawne from him by the matters he propoundes when they be conferred with Gods woorde and censured by the rules of the same as is saide Touching their demaunde it were a long and weary encomber to alleage all the places where it is written that Gods spirite is communicated to the chosen the better to knowe and discerne the things that are of God in Esay 5● the Lord promiseth to poure his spirite vppon the faithfull as water vpon the earthe Likewise in Ioel. 2 Ieremie 34. in the first Catholike of S. Iohn 2. vnder the name of vnction and many other places Obiection These places make no proofe at all that the spirite was promised to all to iudge of the Doctrine Other wayes euen women and all artificers that were faithfull mighte iudge of the Doctrine as the Prophetes and Apostles of the contrary S. Paule saithe Numquid omnes Propheta c. He saithe expressely that discretion of Spirites is to haue vnderstanding of the scriptures and be giftes not common to all the faithfull but particulare to some Aunswere The consequence which the Doctors make is nothing woorthe bicause Gods spirite oftentimes is communicated more aboundantly to some than to others and that also some be better exercised in the scriptures than others Touching the place of S. Paule 1. Corinth 12. the ministers say it makes nothing against them bicause the spirite of Prophecie and the spirite of discretion be giftes differing as appeares by the discourse of the Apostle in the same Chapter The second day of disputation being VVednesday the tenth of Iuly THe Doctors required that their Protestation made the day before might be Inregistred which was this that they would not enter into disputation of things receiued into the vniuersall Churche since the Apostles till our time decided and already determined by the holy Councels Ecumenike and general holding them most certaine and vndouted and that all Doctrine to the contrary was false Onely they were ready according to the holy desire of the Lorde Montpensier and the Ladie of Buillon his daughter to make knowne by the expresse woorde of God interpreted by the saide vniuersall Churche and Councels that their Doctrine is holy and conducible to saluation in which Doctrine as the saide Ladie had bene first instructed so all instruction ministred to her in the contrary is hurtful and damnable And lastly that this conference might be in manner of instruction and not a Disputation In like sorte the Ministers protested that they did not ioyne in assemblie with the Doctoures for any doubte they had that all that was centained in their Confession of faith was not certaine and true and grounded vpon Gods woord as appeareth by the places of Scripture noted in the Margent of the sayde Confession beléeuing that what so euer is contrary is damnable and to be reiected thoughe euen an Aungell of heauen would propone it And touching themselues they came not thither to be instructed in other Doctrine than that which they folowe and which they haue learned of Iesus Christe whome they acknowledge as the only maister and teacher of the churche Héere the Lorde of

the Question For the Doctours demaunde seeing it is essentiall and naturall to a body earthly and heauie in respecte of his waight and heauinesse to tende downeward to know if God by his only vertue against the natural propertie of a body heauie and waighty can not hold and suspend it on highe And touching the euasion which the Ministers make of a most strong and mightie argument againste their Doctrine that two bodies may be in one place according to the proofe taken of the scripture not only to iustifie that God can bring to passe that two bodies may be in one place but also that he hath done it serues for nothing to couer their erroure as to say that in S. Iohn it is not written that our Lord did not enter by the gates shutte but that he was in the midst of them and stoode where the saide Ministers helde their peace and omitted this Verbe venit reasting onely vppon this Verbe stetit For the expresse Texte of S. Iohn Chapter .21 verse .19 saythe that the doores being shut Iesus came into the place where the Disciples were assembled and was there in the middest of them And therefore we nowe aske them séeing the Scripture sayeth he came thither the Doores being shutte and was in the middest of them Whether he was in the middest of them and in the saide place wythoute entring Or if he dyd enter seeing the Texte beares that the Doores were shutte when hee came how will they proue by the Scripture that he entred there but by the shutte doores the same séeming a greater miracle to be in the middest of his Disciples without entring into the place where they were This refuge is too light to saie it is not written that he entred For S. Augustine in his Booke de Agone Christiano Chap. 24. vseth these woords Nec nos moueat quòd clausis ostijs subito eu●n apparnisse Discipulis scriptum est vt propterea negemus illud fuisse humanū quia contra naturam huius Corporis videmus illud per clausa ostia intrare omnia enim possibilia sunt Deo. Nam ambulare super aquas contra naturam huius Corporis esse manifestum est tamen non solum ipse Dominus ante Passionem ambulauit sed etiam Petrum ambulare fecit Wherein appeares that S. Augustine holdes openly that our Lord entred by the shutte doores referring the whole to the almightinesse of God. Besides the Texte of S. Luke ioined with the authoritie of S. Iohn declares that he entred throughe the doores for the Apostles had not had reasonable occasion to thinke it was a Sprite and not a Body seeing him in the semblance of a man before them but that he entred otherwayes than a true Body and a true man can doo meaning that he entred by the shutte doores whiche a true man and true body coulde no waye doo Neither coulde it serue to any pourpose to saie that the doores were open and then shutte by myracle or otherwayes For so mighte a true body a true man enter the same taking away al occasion to thinke that it was a Sprite or Vision Moreouer the Doctours saie that all the Auncient Heretikes and Christians were of this common accorde that Iesus Christe passed through but their difference was suche as at this daye is betwene the Doctours and the Ministers The Aunciente Heretikes helde that Christe after his Resurrection had not a true bodye bicause he did woorkes contrary to the nature of a body the same implying contradictiō in the naturall body that in one instante he was in one selfe place with an other bodye as when he had passed throughe the doores The Ancient Christian Catholikes aunswered that truely the nature of the Body bare that he coulde not passe throughe the doores issue out of the bodye of the Virgyn in his byrthe without breaking it nor come throughe the stone of the Sepulcher in his Resurrection but yet that it did not imply contradiction that two bodies shoulde be together by the Omnipotencie of God bicause it was so happened in the three cases done and recited The firste that speakes of it is Iustinus Martyr in the 117. Question againste the Gentiles wherein he makes this Demaunde If a bodye grosse or thicke saith he be lette to be able to passe throughe the doores howe did our Lorde enter the doores being shutte after his Resurrectiō And if it be so why was the stone rolled by the Angel from the mouthe of the graue to the ende his body might rise againe he aunsweres euen as our Lorde withoute chaunging his Bodye into a Sprite walked vppon the sea making in deede by his Diuine power the sea harde to walke vpon it and not onely to beare his body but S. Peters also euen so by his diuine power came he out of his graue the stone lying vppon it and entred to his Disciples the doores being shutte by whiche as we haue to vnderstande that things procéeding of diuerse vertues oughte to haue a like Faithe euen so wée oughte to know that suche things as passe nature when they are done in the same by power diuine ought not be measured according to the reason and propertie of nature in whiche respecte our Lorde séeing his Disciples troubled with his entrie offered them to touch the partes of his body the markes skarres of his woundes to the end they might sée he did not enter by changing his bodye into a sprite but in his proper body composed of his conuenient dimensions thicknesse and that by his Diuine almightinesse which did al things excéeding the force of nature S. Hilarie in his third Booke of the Trinitie euen of thée saith he which wilt search things iuscrutable be iudge of Gods secrets his power I aske coūsel that thou giue me reason and solution only of this deede yea to me that am ignorant beleue simply in God touching al things as he hath saide and pronounced them I meane that as the Lord hath oftentimes presented himselfe after his Resurrection to be séene and knowne of those who beleued it not So the same Lorde applying him selfe to the imbecilitie of our vnderstanding and to satisfie the doubtes of the vnfaithefull shewes a secrete an acte of his Omnipotencie Therefore expounde to me who euer thou arte that wilte be a searcher of the Omnipotencie of God the reason of this facte The Disciples were enclosed together and drawne into a secrete place the Lorde reuealed him selfe to Thomas to confirme his Faithe according to the condition he desired that is to touche his body and proue his woundes For whiche reason and cause it muste needes be that he bare euen that true body wherein he had receiued those woundes I aske then séeing he was Corporall by what parte of the house did he thruste or intrude him selfe within For I see the Euangelistes opnion is plaine that Iesus came the doores being shutte and was amidde his Disciples Did

the Ministers folowe Lo●us est superficies Corporis continentis by which if the highe and laste Heauen were circumscript of place there must needes be an other body aboue the highe and firste Heauen a quo primum Coel●m contineretur sic in infinitum For the rest the Ministers giue no answere to the other obiections made vpon this Article Touching the places of Scripture which they alleage to proue that there are places aboue the Heauens they doo paraphrase and abuse the ambiguitie of the name of a Place For in al their speache of the dimension of Bodyes whiche thei say doth necessarily require a place equal to their greatnesse they must meane Corporall places as the dimension of bodyes demaunde And now when they speake of places aboue Heauen they must vnderstand meane thē other than Corporal as not being such places or like to those wherin our bodyes be heard but places incomprehensible and imaginable where bodies and Sprites are indifferent without distinction of certaine spaces and places Corporall for their greatnesse in whiche places the Rule of the Ministers is false by which they mainteine that one body cannot be in one place if it conteine not roumth according to the greatnesse of the body for the reste we saie the manner of Heretikes is to interprete the Scriptures spiritually when they should take them according to the Letter and of the contrary to expounde by the Letter that which oughte to be vnderstanded spiritually and by figures as the Ministers expounde the house of God in the other world Literally and Corporally as to conteine spaces and Corporall habitations diuerse and separated one from an other albeit it oughte to be vnderstanded spiritually for the diuersitie of degrées of beatitude neither can the Doctours here omitte one manifest contradiction of the Ministers in this Article wherein they pretende that the Bodies and Soules of the blessed are lodged aboue al the Heauens and yet they lodge the Bodye of Iesus Christe within Heauen And touching the Article condemned by the Facultie of the Diuines of Paris we answer that it is an ordinarie vse with the Ministers to alleage Authorities either corrupt or improper For the Article saithe that the Bishop of Paris hauing assembled the Facultie condemned all suche as would mainteine twoo seuerall Heauens the one for Aungelles and the other for the soules of men whiche apperteines nothing to the present question In the fourth Article the Ministers impose vpon the Doctoures who neuer attribute the propertie of God to any creature and haue saide many times before that to be euerywhere and incircumscript was not naturall to any creature but onely to god Wherein the Authoures alleaged by the Ministers as S. Basil Dydimus and Vigilius speake not otherwayes than of the propertie of Nature to be euerywhere or not and yet denie not that it is in Gods power to bring to passe that a creature or bodye be in twoo or many places aboue his nature but as hath bene saide when they come to the power of God many of those ancient authours confesse it to be possible to God and that he hath done so in the Sacrament and therfore the Ministers answer is out of the matter séeing al the contention is but of Gods power not of natural properties In this fifth Article the Ministers haue not rightly comprehended the reason of the Doctours who haue not alleaged that Aungelles are circumscripte naturally as well as bodyes by whiche they woulde inferre that the circumscription of place simply depended not as of the only essential cause of the dimensions of a body as by al their said reasons the Ministers pretende notwithstanding the Doctours are not ignorant that to put difference betwene corporall and spiritual creatures there is a custome in the schole to distinguish the Angels sunt diffinitiuè in loco bodies circūscriptiuè In the sixth Article to satisfie the Doctours request to produce one only place or testimonie of the Ancients to proue it not in Gods power to make one body in twoo places The Ministers for al the authorities they can haue alleage falsly one place of S. Augustine where it is said as is recited vpon Gratian de Consecratione Distinct 2. C. Prima quidem that S Augustine wrote that it muste be that Christes body be in one place whereunto the Doctours answere that it is not so set downe in the proper text of S. Augustine which is in the 30. Treatise vpon S Iohn the tenure being thus in all the ancient exemplaries of S. Augustine Corpus Domini in quo resurrexit vno loco esse potest Veritas eius vbique diffusa est Here is no Oportet as the Ministers recite hauing it of Gratian. And to the ende it be knowne that there oughte no greate trust to be had in the fragmentes of Gratian without hauing recourse to the exemplaries of S. Augustine In the title of the Canon there be these woordes drawne out of the Exposition of S. Augustine vppon the 54. Psalme from whence he drawes the onely beginning of his Canon and yet he brings it not in as for truth the residue of which Canon is taken of diuerse places of the saide S Augustine And albeit there were Oportet yet S. Augustine vsing his custome speakes according to the propertie of the Bodye opposing the Diuinitie to the Humanitie and toucheth not the operation of Goddes Omnipotencie whereof when he doothe make mention and that he speakes of the Sacramente he affirmes expressely the Bodye of Iesus Christe to be in diuerse places by the Almightinesse of God as wée hope to deduce aswell of him as other Auncientes in our resolution The eighth Article conteines many Erroures againste Philosophie and Truthe as first in that they make no Distinction betwéene a body called Mathematicall whiche is hauing dimension of largenesse length and height and a body Physical or natural that is composed of a forme substantial and matter by the vnitie of which it is made a body natural and substantial In the second place if the body should be without quantitie yet would it differ from our soules separated which be no substance materiall and consequently it would differ also from Angels and Sprites In the thirde place for conclusion of this Article the Ministers declare plainly not to acknowledg any substantiall Body And where they saie that if God could separate the dimensions of a substance and not corrupte it that that substance should remaine spirituall as the Angells they are abused for that substance shoulde not remaine immateriall as our Soules and Angelles doo which be not capable of dimensions and therefore shoulde be still differente from Angels and our Soules To the ninth Article the Ministers answere nothing to pourpose for the Doctours holde not that grauitie weight are essentialles in a body but to encline downewarde is essential to the heauinesse weight of a body thei demaunded also in their obiection if an Earthely body and

to him and yet notwithstanding he may be incircumscript For if it be necessary that the dimensions wherof he is composed be terminable it folowes then necessarily that he is termined limited and circumscript Afterwardes where they say that our reasons takē of the Creede alleaged to proue that the body of Iesus Christe is in heauen in place certaine are friuolous we Answere that therein they shewe the reuerence they beare to the woorde of God and his holy spirite which hath reuealed it vnto vs and to his Apostles who haue pronounced it to vs. To iustifie Gratian and the Canon which we alleage of S. Augustine as prouing therby that the body of Iesus Christe muste necessarilye be in a certaine place Wée alleage againe for more ample confirmation the Maister of sentences Lib. 4. Distinct 10. who reciting the selfe same texte of S. Augustine vseth this verbe Oportet and not Potest Where the Doctours alleage Iustine to proue that the myracles which were done when Christ appeared in the middest of his Disciples the doores being shutte and when he walked vppon the waters were done in his person Wée maruell muche that the Doctours doo yet repeate that seeing the same Iustine as hathe bene already aunswered them saithe in expresse termes that at the time when the saide myracles were done there happened no chaunge in the body of Iesus Christ which as it had bin necessary if the myracles had bin done in his person so wée confesse stil as many times wée haue done that the cause of the saide myracles and the Diuine vertue of which they procéeded rested in Iesus Christ as when he healed the sicke that touched him with other myracles recited in the Histories of the Gospelles which were done by him but not in him but in the person of those that were healed There is greate difference betweene those myracles and them of his Transfiguration and Resurrection which were done by his onely vertue and in his proper person Vppon the importunate repetition whiche the Doctoures make aswel touching the meane of the byrth of our Lord Iesus Christe as of the terme Aphantos The Ministers no lesse to auoide the losse of time than to gréeue or trouble the Readers sende them to their former aunsweres Wée maruell also that the Doctoures to proue their penetration pretended of twoo bodyes and theire dimensions will grounde their proofe and principell Argumente vpon the proper signification of the woord to Penetrate For be it that by the French terme they woulde interprete the Gréeke woorde P●e●cliestai or the Latine woorde Penetrare yet it shoulde be alwayes impossible to them to proue that which they pretend And to shew it is so in the Actes of the Apostles chapter 1● 10. it is saide of the Aungel and S. Peter that they passed the firste seconde warde And in S. Luke 4 3● but he passed through the middes of them and wente his way And in S. Iohn 4.4 He must passe by Samaria in al which places the Doctoures cannot finde that the terme Diercherstai alleaged in the said places may be any wayes applied to their penetration of dimensions neither can they proue any more that the terme Penetrare which the Auncient Translatour hathe vsed in 2. Timoth. 3. may be referred to their said penetration Wée say further that the Doctoures oughte not to finde it more strange that Iesus Christ mounting into heauen with a body termined and limited made himselfe opening to enter therin than whē he discendes betwene the hands of Priests singing their masses for then as S. Gregorie saith the heauens are opened to make him passage albeit that according to their imagination his body be then separated from his measures dimensions The Doctors ought to haue contēted themselues with the answer which we made them vpon the similitude parable of the Camel. For first they could no way proue that the saying of Iesus Christ vpon the end of the speach ought to be referred otherwaies than to the next member of the same where is spoken of the conuersion sauing of the Rich séeing the Pronoune Demonstratiue Hoc shewes it clearly After notwithstanding the proposition generall whiche is vpon the end cōclusion of the said speach that al things are possible to God stretcheth aswel to the Camel as to the rich men as the doctors hold yet to accomodate the two parts of the comparison thei must confesse that as changing is necessary to the rich man to be saued so is it also to the body of the Camel to make him passe through the hole of a néedle but what so euer it be in what manner so euer that may be done the doctors shal neuer proue or conclude by that that two bodies may penetrate one an other Bicause the doctors by their most mighty and strong Argumentes coulde not conclude any their said absurdities nor enforce vs by force of their reasons to cōfesse them they doo nothing but crye blasphemie blasphemie the same being the last shift of al men that despite and whet their téeth against the Truthe and mainteiners thereof when they can not ouercome them If wée woulde subscribe to their errours and abuses wée should be good and Catholike men but bicause wée resist and reproue them wée are in their opinion Heretikes Seducers Blasphemours and Atheistes Yea they haue in vs such horrour that it is maruel they rent not as did Caiphas their hoodes and hattes in spite of Gods woorde proponed defended by vs and condemned by them as Blasphemy The doctours haue dissembled our place of scripture alleaged to proue that faith is a worke of God that it produceth in the hart of the faithful when he wil regenerate him speaking by chaunge of Frée wil and Merite of Woorkes wherein wée are determined to answere and mainteine the truthe of these twoo pointes with Gods grace againste the enimies of his glorye when they shal be proponed to be debated vppon And touching the ioy that they say they haue receiued for that wée haue confessed to haue read in no ancient Authour or expresse termes that God cannot bring to passe that one body in one instant be in diuers places they haue no great cause to reioice at it séeing that albeit the said ancients haue not spokē it in expresse speach yet haue they both said and written it in termes equiualent and that in infinite places A shorte resolution of al the discourse and aunsweres whiche the Ministers haue made vppon the matter of Goddes Omnipotencie in the conference which they haue had with the Doctoures THe craft art of Sathan hath bene alwaies from the beginning of the world to trāsfigure him self into an Angel of light search some fine pretēce to colour distinguish him self as vnder such colour to insinuate into the church of God there to sette abroach his Lyes trumperies like as we sée that vnder the colour to honor God he hath established al the Idolatry

his iustice life and other fruites of his sacrifice but also they receiue and possesse euen himself and are made one with him no lesse truely and stricktly then the members be conioyned to one head we say further that this coniunction is the fountaine and meane of all the benefites which discende vnto vs by him through Goddes grace But we say with all that this receiuing oughte to be attributed in all and by all to the free woorking of the holy Ghoste who makes vs fitte and capable to knowe our Lord Iesus Christe with all his vertues and propreties and in knowing him to put oure truste in him and in reapposing our truste in him to possesse and enioy him wholly To Aunswere the .vij. question we say that we reiecte and reproue the terme of concomitance togither with the thing it signifieth as being the occasion that the common people haue bene barde and secluded from one of the essential partes of the sacramēt which is the participation of the cup and we say it is an attempt against the diuine maiestie to seeke to seperate that which the sonne of God hathe conioyned denie to any of his membres that which he hath willed and commaūded to be common to all Like as also the reason of the sacrament requires it the same being instituted for our spirituall nouriture the which as doth the corporal consists in eating and drinking To the end therfore that there be a certain correspondencie betwéene bothe it must be that as we are filled with the crucified flesh of Iesus Christ that euen so also we be licoured with his bloud shed for the remission of sinnes To be short seeing the supper was principally instituted to declare the deathe of our Lord that in his death his bloude was deuided from his body it is very conuenient the bread wine be there administred to represent both the one and other more clearly to propound to vs the whole misterie of the death of Christ To the .viij. Question we acknowledge no other cause or meane for remission of sinnes than the grace of God the bloud of Iesus Christ faith by the which the effect of gods grace the frute of the death of Iesus Christ are applied vnto vs. Our Aunswer to the .ix. question is that the faithful comming to the Supper come not to receiue there a newe Iesus Christ with whom they haue not bene conioyned before nether a new iustice which hath not bene cōmunicate to them But we say that if any man present him self there without faith by want wherof he was not vnited incorpored knit in Iesus Christe to participate with his iustice his life other his gifts and blessings in this case the holy supper is vnprofitable to him as meat to a dead man But if liuing by the meanes aforesaid by gods grace the bloud of Iesus Christ and faith he present himself there in such estate that then gods graces are multiplied cōfirmed and increased in him more more as the Circumcision brought not to Abraham a new iustice but sealed and ratified that which had bene communicate to him before by the promisse the which being knowne to the faithfull in what degrée of vertue so euer they be ought not to mistake the holy supper nor in any sorte abstaine from it when they haue the occasion and meanes to assist it considering that they cānot be so farre aduaunced in the knowledge and feare of God and in the faithe of his promisses but that they may further profite and encrease therin in what estate so euer they be by the meanes which God hath lefte and ordained for this effecte in his Churche neither is it possible that a man hauing a true faith in his heart do otherwayes hauing the commoditie of it Bicause the nature of faithe is not to comprehend only the promisses of God but also to engender and bring foorthe in the hearts of the Faithfull a wil to obey him with obseruation of his commaundements and ordinances To Aunswere the first Articles proponed by the Doctors touching their Masse we say they blaspheme openly Iesus Christe as to authorise vnder his name and by his example such an abhomination and that also they make a scoffe of the church and the world to preach and wryte such impieties To the second Article of the Masse we Aunswere that there is no other sacrifice in the church by which men are reconciled to God and which makes him mercifull and fauourable to them in appeasing his wrath than only that which Iesus Christe hathe once offred to his father vppon the crosse the vertue of the which being eternal to sāctifie all the beleeuing and obtaine remission of their sinnes for euer there is no néede of any others nor that that which he hath once offered be euer repeated For Answer to the third Article we say that suche as approue the Masse and other sacrificature than that of Iesus Christ and seeke to establish for remission of sinnes an other Sacrifice than that which he himselfe offered in his bodie of the Crosse are Antichristes and deface in so muche as in them is all the vertue and frute of the deathe and sacrifice of the Sonne of God. To Aunswere the fourthe we alleage that which S. Paule wryteth that where is remission there is no more Oblation for the sinne And if it be so that by the death of Iesus Christ remission hathe bene obtained for vs it foloweth that there is no more Oblation for sinne neither in the Masse nor oute of the Masse And if there be none for the liuing there is lesse for them that be dead For Aunswere to the fifthe we maintaine that the Communion is of the essence of the supper according to S. Paule in the first to the Corinthians Chap. 10. and .11 and as the Canon and other partes of the Masse importes For Aunswere to the sixthe we alleage thrée things First that the Masse of the Papists is no Sacrament and then that the bodie of Iesus Christe is not there and conclude thereupon that there can not be worshipped therein but the breade and wine which rest there which being creatures can not be woorshipped but that suche as doe woorship them are Idolatrers To Aunswere the seuenth and last Article we say contrary to the Doctors that there is nothing in the Masse which either directly or indirectly is not contrary to Gods woorde And for Conclusion we aduise and praie the Doctoures not to excéede or forsake the limites of the matter proponed this day to dispute vpon as they haue done héeretofore to the ende that these two pointes which stande at this day in debate betwéene them may be perfectly and wholly decided to the contentment and edifying of suche as shal read the Actes of this conference Tuesday the .30 of Iulie the yeare aforesaid A summary Replie of the Doctours against the laste Aunswere of the Ministers sente to them by the Duke Nyuernois the