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A35787 A treatise concerning the right use of the Fathers, in the decision of the controversies that are this day in religion written in French by John Daille ...; Traité de l'employ des saints Pères pour le jugement des différences qui sont aujourd'hui en la religion. English Daillé, Jean, 1594-1670. 1675 (1675) Wing D119; ESTC R1519 305,534 382

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not the same thing have hapned to them in the one that hath so manifestly befallen them in the other It is not very probable as we have said before that they so much as ever thought of our Differences and it is much more improbable that ever they had any intention of being our Judges in the Decision of them as we have before proved But now put the Case that they were acquainted with the Business and that they did intend to clear our Doubts and to give us their Positive Determination touching the same in their Books who shall assure us that they have had better success here than they had in so many other things wherein we have before heard them give their Verdict so utterly against all Justice and Reason He that hath erred touching the Point of the Resurrection is it not possible that he should be in an Errour touching the State of the Soul after this Life He that could be ignorant what the Nature of Christ's Body was must he Necessarily have a Right Judgment touching the Eucharist I do not see what solid Reason of this Difference can possibly be given It cannot proceed but from one of these two Causes neither of which have yet any place here For it happens sometimes that he who is deceived in one Particular hath yet better fortune in another by reason perhaps of his taking more heed to and using more Attention in the Consideration of the Later than he did in the Former or else by reason that one of the Points is easier to be understood than the other For in this Case though his Attention be as great in the one as in the other yet notwithstanding he may perhaps be able to understand the easie one but shall not be able to master the hard one But now neither of these Reasons can be alledged here For why should the Ancients have used less Care and Attention in the Examination of those Points wherein they have erred Or why should they have used more in those Points which are at this day controverted amongst us Are not those Ancient Points of Religion of as great Importance as these Latter Is there less danger in being ignorant touching the Nature of God than touching the Authority of the Pope or touching the State of the Faithful in the Resurrection than touching the Punishment of Souls in Purgatory the Real Qualities of the Body of Christ than the Nature of the Eucharist the Cup of His Passion than the Cup of His Communion Is it more Necessary to Salvation to know Him Sacrificed upon the Altar than Really Suffering upon the Cross Who sees not that these Matters are of equal Importance or if there be any Difference betwixt them that those Points wherein the Fathers have erred are in some sort more Important than those which we now dispute about We shall therefore conclude That if they had had both the one and the other before their eyes they would questionless have used as much Diligence at least and Attention in the Study of the one as of the other and consequently in all probability would have been either as successful or else have erred as much in the one as in the other Neither may it be here objected That those Points wherein they have failed are of more difficulty than those other wherein these Men will needs have them to have been Certainly in the Right for whosoever shall but consider them more narrowly he will find that they are equally both easie and difficult or if there be any difference betwixt them in this Particular those which they have erred in were the easier of the two to have been known For I would fain have any Man tell me what he thinks in his Conscience whether it be not as easie to judge by Reason and by the Scripture whether or no the Saints shall dwell upon the Earth after the Resurrection as it is to determine whether after they are departed this Life they shall go into Purgatory or not Is it a harder matter to know whether the Angels are capable of Carnal Love than it is to judge whether the Pope as he is Pope be Infallible or not And if it be answered here That the Church having already determined these Latter Points and having not declared it self at all touching the other hath taken away all the Difficulty of the one but hath left the other in their former Doubtful State this is to presuppose that which is the main Question or rather it is manifestly False the Church in the First Ages having not that we know of passed any Publick and Authentick Judgment touching the Points now in controversie as we have before already proved Forasmuch therefore as these Holy Men if at least they had any thought at all of these our Quarrels had an equally Clear Insight in these things both according to all Reason and all Probability they would have also come unto them with an equal both Attention and Affection And I believe that there is no Man but sees that if they might erre in the Decision of the one it is altogether as Possible that they might be mistaken also in their Judgment upon the other Now those Books of theirs which are left us proclaim aloud and openly enough as we have seen by those few Testimonies which we have but just now produced out of them that they have erred and sometimes also very grievously touching those First Questions it remaineth therefore that we say That their Judgment is not any whit more Infallible in our present Controversies I could be content that you had demonstrated to any Protestant by clear and undeniable Reasons that S. Hilary in those Passages which are produced out of him for the same purpose hath Positively taught the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist and I could be well contented that he should grant you the same which yet perhaps he will never do However after all he hath this still to put you in mind of namely that this is the self-same S. Hilary who in the same Book maintains That the Body of Christ felt no Pain at all upon the Cross And if he were in an Error in this Particular why must he Necessarily be in the Right in the other The Question touching the Body of Christ is of as great Importance as that of the Eucharist and it is besides much more Clearly decided in the Scriptures where there is nothing in the Earth that obligeth in the least degree to fancy any such thing of the Body of Christ as S. Hilary hath done but where on the contrary there seems to be some kind of Ground for the Opinion which he is pretended to have had touching the Eucharist Forasmuch therefore will the Protestant say as that in a thing which is of equal Importance and of much less Difficulty he hath manifestly erred who can assure me that in this Point here which is both less Necessary and more Difficult he may not also