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cause_n body_n great_a part_n 3,256 5 4.2928 3 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A63577 A true narrative of the Portsmouth disputation, between some ministers of the Presbyterian, and others of the Baptist, persuasion, concerning the subjects and manner of baptism held in Mr. Williams's meeting-place there on Wednesday, Feb. 22. 1698/9. The managers for the Presbyterians were, Mr. Samuel Chandler of Fareham. Mr. Leigh of Newport in the Isle of Wight. Mr. Robinson of Hungerford in Berks, moderator. For the Baptists were, Dr. William Russel of London. Mr. John Williams of East Knoyle in Wiltshire. Mr. John Sharp of Froome in Somersetshire, moderator. Transcribed from two copies taken at the dispute; the one by Mr. Bissel Town-Clerk of Portsmouth, and the other by Mr. Samuel Ring. Revis'd and publish'd by Dr. William Russel. Bissel, Mr.; Ring, Samuel.; Russel, William, d. 1702. 1699 (1699) Wing T2806A; ESTC R215290 67,061 90

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declare_v that_o mr._n chandler_n have_v in_o his_o preach_v assert_v that_o infant_n be_v the_o subject_n of_o baptism_n but_o tell_v we_o we_o be_v not_o to_o call_v on_o he_o for_o that_o then_o 3._o i_o will_v make_v this_o far_a remark_n upon_o it_o that_o the_o reason_n why_o he_o take_v this_o method_n be_v because_o he_o be_v unable_a to_o prove_v what_o he_o have_v assert_v for_o in_o one_o of_o his_o sermon_n he_o thus_o speak_v but_o that_o i_o may_v proceed_v with_o the_o great_a clearness_n i_o shall_v do_v these_o thing_n first_o prove_v from_o scripture_n the_o warrantableness_n of_o infant-baptism_n etc._n etc._n and_o to_o make_v his_o assertion_n good_a he_o cite_v the_o commission_n matth._n 28._o 19_o for_o the_o baptise_v the_o infant_n of_o believe_a parent_n and_o argue_v upon_o it_o that_o disciple_n be_v to_o be_v baptise_a and_o say_v he_o we_o have_v a_o plain_a text_n that_o such_o infant_n be_v disciple_n see_v act_n 15._o 10._o and_o when_o our_o saviour_n say_v go_v make_v disciple_n baptise_v they_o it_o must_v be_v understand_v of_o such_o infant_n now_o as_o to_o his_o pretence_n from_o act_n 15._o 10._o we_o do_v sufficient_o enervate_a that_o and_o as_o for_o the_o commission_n mr._n leigh_n do_v confess_v as_o well_o as_o mr._n chandler_n that_o it_o be_v a_o command_n and_o that_o the_o command_n be_v express_v pag._n 27._o and_o far_o say_v in_o pag._n 28._o we_o must_v all_o confess_v that_o jesus_n christ_n give_v commission_n to_o baptise_v believer_n when_o at_o the_o age_n of_o maturity_n but_o afterward_o the_o child_n of_o those_o believer_n yet_o when_o mr._n chandler_n begin_v to_o answer_v my_o first_o argument_n he_o affirm_v that_o christ_n have_v no_o where_o express_o command_v infant_n to_o be_v baptise_a see_v p._n 6._o and_o if_o so_o than_o infant_n can_v be_v intend_v
way_n of_o baptise_v whatever_o he_o may_v say_v in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o dispute_n because_o he_o do_v say_v to_o divers_a person_n that_o if_o it_o have_v be_v in_o a_o private_a conference_n where_o there_o have_v be_v but_o a_o few_o person_n of_o a_o side_n he_o shall_v have_v make_v several_a concession_n which_o he_o be_v not_o willing_a to_o make_v in_o so_o great_a a_o assembly_n and_o therefore_o i_o will_v not_o charge_v those_o extravagant_a expression_n of_o mr._n chandler_n upon_o he_o i._n e._n that_o dip_v be_v always_o use_v as_o a_o token_n of_o displeasure_n and_o sure_o mr._n chandler_n have_v mighty_o forget_v himself_o when_o he_o say_v so_o for_o naaman_n the_o syrian_a be_v command_v to_o dip_v himself_o not_o in_o a_o way_n of_o vengeance_n and_o wrath_n but_o in_o a_o way_n of_o mercy_n and_o he_o find_v it_o to_o be_v so_o for_o he_o be_v perfect_o cure_v of_o his_o leprosy_n thereby_o i_o will_v advise_v mr._n chandler_n to_o read_v over_o rom._n 2._o 1_o 2_o 3._o and_o consider_v how_o sharp_o the_o apostle_n reprove_v such_o that_o condemn_v other_o and_o yet_o do_v the_o same_o thing_n themselves_o and_o say_v thou_o be_v inexcusable_a o_o man_n whosoever_o thou_o be_v that_o judge_v for_o wherein_o thou_o judge_v another_o thou_o condemne_v thyself_o for_o thou_o that_o judge_v do_v the_o same_o thing_n how_o can_v he_o or_o any_o of_o they_o condemn_v our_o practice_n when_o themselves_o can_v do_v it_o to_o satisfy_v a_o scrupulous_a conscience_n or_o etc._n etc._n and_o especial_o mr._n leigh_n who_o confess_v it_o to_o be_v according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o mr._n erle_n have_v do_v it_o by_o their_o consent_n i_o shall_v now_o give_v you_o a_o account_n from_o another_o hand_n write_v from_o gosport_n in_o which_o after_o he_o have_v signify_v his_o respect_n to_o i_o etc._n etc._n he_o thus_o say_v although_o they_o look_v on_o your_o argument_n to_o be_v of_o little_a weight_n yet_o we_o think_v they_o to_o be_v of_o too_o great_a weight_n for_o they_o to_o answer_v with_o all_o their_o cunning._n i_o hope_v those_o that_o be_v unprejudiced_a will_v receive_v some_o light_n though_o they_o endeavour_v as_o much_o as_o in_o they_o lay_v to_o darken_v counsel_n with_o their_o mutinous_a carriage_n but_o truth_n will_v be_v truth_n still_o in_o spite_n of_o all_o its_o opposite_n and_o will_v shine_v though_o they_o will_v cloud_v it_o this_o be_v write_v after_o that_o vain_a boast_a advertisement_n of_o the_o presbyterian_o in_o the_o post-man_n which_o be_v very_o please_v to_o their_o party_n at_o london_n and_o make_v so_o great_a a_o noise_n all_o over_o the_o nation_n as_o if_o they_o have_v get_v some_o great_a victory_n although_o in_o truth_n it_o be_v nothing_o so_o as_o will_v evident_o appear_v by_o this_o narrative_a but_o my_o friend_n proceed_v say_v i_o hope_v this_o account_n i_o have_v herewith_o send_v you_o will_v come_v safe_a to_o your_o hand_n wherein_o you_o may_v see_v some_o of_o their_o curiosity_n whereby_o they_o say_v they_o have_v confound_v your_o sophistry_n four_o thing_n i_o observe_v in_o their_o proceed_n which_o to_o i_o condemn_v their_o cause_n i._o the_o want_n of_o so_o much_o as_o one_o bare_a instance_n in_o scripture_n to_o confirm_v their_o practice_n of_o infant_n baptism_n ii_o when_o they_o require_v a_o instance_n of_o a_o believer_n child_n baptise_a when_o adult_n and_o promise_v when_o produce_v they_o will_v give_v we_o the_o cause_n which_o instance_n be_v give_v and_o yet_o they_o persist_v in_o it_o as_o before_o iii_o their_o appeal_n to_o the_o people_n to_o give_v their_o assent_n that_o they_o be_v satisfy_v with_o mr_n leigh_v argument_n from_o matth._n 19_o 4._o of_o such_o be_v the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n by_o hold_v up_o their_o hand_n and_o it_o be_v observe_v there_o be_v but_o few_o that_o do_v hold_v up_o their_o hand_n in_o comparison_n of_o so_o great_a a_o multitude_n suppose_v by_o some_o not_o to_o be_v one_o in_o fifty_o and_o by_o other_o a_o much_o few_o number_n so_o that_o they_o be_v far_o from_o have_v the_o opinion_n of_o the_o people_n on_o their_o side_n by_o way_n of_o approbation_n whatever_o they_o may_v say_v of_o themselves_o which_o be_v not_o a_o little_a mortification_n to_o they_o iv._o when_o they_o can_v not_o obtain_v it_o by_o right_n they_o will_v have_v it_o be_v they_o by_o might_n and_o this_o be_v evidence_v by_o their_o repeat_v clamour_n which_o be_v not_o when_o due_o consider_v to_o their_o honour_n beside_o there_o have_v be_v two_o concession_n make_v since_o the_o dispute_n by_o themselves_o which_o be_v these_o 1._o that_o there_o be_v credit_n gain_v to_o our_o cause_n by_o this_o dispute_n 2._o that_o there_o be_v truth_n and_o christianity_n in_o it_o for_o my_o part_n i_o be_o satisfy_v in_o what_o be_v say_v and_o so_o be_v our_o friend_n etc._n etc._n sir_n this_o be_v but_o some_o and_o consider_v the_o procedure_n be_v so_o clamorons_a it_o may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v some_o of_o the_o spoil_n win_v in_o battle_n where_o innocence_n and_o rancour_n encounter_v i_o shall_v be_v glad_a to_o hear_v of_o your_o welfare_n and_o desire_v a_o interest_n in_o your_o prayer_n as_o oft_o as_o you_o go_v to_o the_o throne_n of_o grace_n you_o etc._n etc._n gosport_n march_v 11._o 1698-9_a i_o will_v give_v you_o a_o abstract_n of_o another_o letter_n from_o a_o worthy_a person_n in_o those_o part_n direct_v to_o i_o who_o be_v a_o eye_n and_o ear_n witness_v of_o what_o past_a in_o which_o after_o christian_a salutation_n he_o say_v i_o hope_v these_o line_n will_v find_v you_o in_o health_n after_o your_o tedious_a and_o uncomfortable_a journey_n which_o i_o hope_v may_v bring_v some_o glory_n to_o god_n notwithstanding_o the_o great_a rage_n that_o the_o etc._n etc._n be_v in_o indeed_o they_o have_v no_o other_o shift_n to_o save_v their_o reputation_n but_o by_o cast_v out_o a_o flood_n act_v the_o part_n of_o the_o serpent_n hiss_v among_o the_o worst_a i_o do_v understand_v several_a be_v convince_v by_o their_o rudeness_n and_o they_o be_v since_o baptise_a i_o think_v it_o may_v be_v convenient_a to_o take_v away_o the_o cloud_n from_o the_o common_a people_n by_o expose_v what_o be_v deliver_v in_o the_o dispute_n to_o public_a view_n and_o by_o add_v that_o which_o they_o will_v not_o then_o hear_v i_o mean_v that_o which_o relate_v to_o the_o manner_n of_o administration_n you_o may_v consider_v of_o it_o it_o be_v pity_n they_o shall_v glory_v in_o their_o shame_n deceive_v the_o world_n dear_a friend_n i_o thank_v you_o for_o all_o your_o labour_n of_o love_n your_o preach_a and_o behaviour_n be_v to_o i_o very_o acceptable_a and_o to_o all_o our_o friend_n etc._n etc._n gosport_n march_v 6._o 1698-9_a by_o these_o testimony_n you_o may_v see_v that_o the_o presbyterian_o have_v no_o cause_n to_o publish_v what_o they_o do_v to_o the_o world_n except_o it_o be_v to_o keep_v up_o their_o decline_a reputation_n after_o the_o dispute_n be_v end_v and_o i_o be_v return_v to_o my_o lodging_n mr._n williams_n tell_v i_o he_o will_v go_v to_o his_o namesake_n house_n to_o talk_v with_o the_o presbyterian_a minister_n that_o be_v there_o i_o desire_v he_o to_o remember_v my_o love_n to_o they_o and_o let_v they_o know_v that_o i_o can_v dispute_v with_o man_n and_o yet_o love_v they_o notwithstanding_o but_o desire_v he_o to_o tell_v mr._n robinson_n their_o moderator_n that_o i_o take_v it_o very_o unkind_o at_o his_o hand_n that_o he_o shall_v transgress_v so_o much_o as_o he_o have_v do_v against_o the_o rule_n of_o dispute_n and_o be_v so_o abusive_a as_o he_o be_v so_o as_o to_o give_v the_o lie_n for_o he_o say_v in_o the_o midst_n of_o the_o dispute_n with_o a_o loud_a voice_n that_o be_v a_o lie_n and_o yet_o can_v not_o make_v any_o thing_n out_o about_o it_o and_o for_o his_o misrepresentation_n of_o what_o i_o have_v say_v particular_o upon_o that_o argument_n about_o the_o beast_n of_o the_o field_n not_o be_v capable_a etc._n etc._n and_o when_o mr._n williams_n come_v to_o see_v i_o before_o i_o leave_v portsmouth_n he_o tell_v i_o that_o he_o have_v deliver_v my_o message_n to_o they_o and_o that_o mr._n william_n the_o presbyterian_a minister_n do_v acknowledge_v that_o mr._n robinson_n have_v exceed_v his_o bound_n and_o that_o he_o do_v abuse_v i_o in_o his_o misrepresent_v of_o i_o to_o the_o people_n upon_o that_o argument_n i_o answer_v it_o be_v well_o he_o have_v acknowledge_v it_o now_o but_o it_o have_v be_v better_a if_o he_o have_v do_v it_o before_o the_o people_n mr._n williams_n the_o baptist_n minister_n be_v please_v to_o communicate_v this_o account_n to_o i_o by_o mr._n sharp_a