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A51741
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A reformed catechism. The first dialogue in two dialogues concerning the English Reformation / collected for the most part, word for word out of Dr. Burnet, John Fox, and other Protestant historians ; published for the information of the people in reply to Mas William Kings answer to D. Manby's considerations &c. ; by Peter Manby.
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Manby, Peter, d. 1697.
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1687
(1687)
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Wing M388; ESTC R30509
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77,561
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110
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Head of the Church of England under Christ as well in all spiritual things or causes as temporal what better Answers in brief could be returned to the Questions of Dr. Martin Cranmer having sworn that the King was Supream Head of the Church of England under Christ as well in all spiritual things or causes as temporal A. But how did he interpret those words as well in all spiriritual things or causes as temporal B. Fox tells you p. 662. viz. After this Dr. Martyn demanded of him who was Supream Head of the Church of England Marry quoth my Lord of Canterbury Christ is Head of this Member as he is of the whole Body of the Universal Church Why quoth Dr. Martyn you made King Henry the 8th Supream Head of the Church Yea said the Archbishop of all the people of England as well Ecclesiastical as Temporal And not of the Church said Martyn No said he for Christ is only Head of his Church and of the Faith and Religion of the same the King is Head and Governour of his People which are the visible Church What quoth Martyn you never durst tell the King so Yes that I durst quoth he and did in the publication of his Stile wherein he was named Supream Head of the Church there was never other thing meant page 662. This is Foxes account of the Dialogue received as he says from a better hand A. Did he answer any thing further concerning the Perjury objected to him B. Fox tells you Others who were present at his Tryal do thus report the effect of Cranmers words viz. while he in this sort made his Answer ye heard before how Dr. Story and Martyn divers times interrupted him with blasphemous Talk and would sain have had the Bishop of Glocester to put him to silence who notwithstanding did not but suffered him to end his Tale at full After this ye heard also how they proceeded to examine him of divers Articles whereof the chief was that at the time of his creating Archbishop of Canterbury he was sworn to the Pope and had his Institution and Induction from him and promised then to maintain the Authority of that See and therefore was perjured wherefore he should rather stick to his first Oath and return to his old fold again than continue obstinately in an Oath forced in the time of Schism To that he answered says Fox saving his Protestation which term he used before all his Answers that at such time as Archbishop Warham dyed he was Ambassador in Germany for the King who thereupon sent for him home and having intelligence by some of his Friends near about the King how he meant to bestow the same Bishoprick upon him and therefore counselled him in that case to make haste home he feeling in himself a great inability to such a Promotion and very sorry to leave his Study and especially considering by what means he must have it which was clean against his Conscience which he could not utter without great peril and danger devised an Excuse to the King of matter of great importance for the which his longer abode there should be most necessary thinking by that means in his absence the King would bestow it upon some other and so remained there by that device one half year after the King had written for him to come but after that no such matter fell out as he seemed to make suspicion of the King sent for him again Who after his return understanding still the Archbishoprick to be reserved for him made means by divers of his best Friends to shift it off desiring rather some smaller Living that he might more quietly follow his Book To be brief when the King himself spake with him declaring that his full intention was for his Service sake note this and for the good opinion he conceived of him to bestow that Dignity upon him Fox proceeds After long disabling of himself perceiving he could by no perswasions alter the Kings determination he brake frankly his Conscience with him most humbly craving first his Graces Pardon for what he should declare unto his Highness Which obtained he said that if he accepted the Office he must receive it at the Popes hand which he neither would nor could do His Highness being the only Supream Governour of this Church of England as well in causes Ecclesiastical as Temporal this was a Chaplain after King Henry's own Heart And therefore if he might in that Vocation serve God the King and his Country seeing it was his pleasure so to have it he would accept that Dignity and receive it of his Majesty and of no Stranger who had no Authority within this Realm Whereat the King said he staying a while and musing asked me How I was able to prove that At which time I alledged many Texts out of Scripture and the Fathers also approving the Supream and highest Authority of Kings within their own Realms shewing withall the intolerable usurpation of the Pope of Rome Afterwards it pleased his Highness quoth the Archbishop many and sundry times to talk with me about it and perceiving that I could not be brought to acknowledge the Authority of the Bishop of Rome the King himself called Doctor Oliver and other Civil Lawyers to advise with them how he might bestow the Archbishoprick upon me inforcing me nothing against my Conscience who thereupon informed him that I might do it by the way of Protestation and so one to be sent to Rome who might take the Oath and do every thing in my name which when I understood I said he should do it super Animam suam And I indeed bona fide made by Protestation that I did not acknowledge his Authority any further then as it agreed with the express Word of God And that it might be lawful for me at all times to speak against him and to impugn his Errors when time and occasion should serve me And this my Protestation I did cause to be inrolled and there I think it remains This says Fox is the faithful Relation and Testimony of certain Persons that were present at his Tryal before the Bishop of Glocester See page 661 662. Reader Remember what Doctor Martyn observes page 60. Hearken good People to what this man saith he makes a Protestation one day to keep never a tittle of that which he intended to swear next day See the Tenour of his Oath to the Pope page 28. of this Catechism A. What did he answer to the particular of Incontinency or breach of his Sacerdotal Vow B. Dr. Martyn objected that being in holy Orders after the Death of his first Wife he married a second named Ann and kept her secretly in the days of King Henry 8. Whereunto he answered that it was better for him to have his own Wife than to do like other Priests holding and keeping other mens wives But the Question is whether other mens vices could be any excuse for him he seems to suppose here every man to be
his Disciples Feet saying Si ego lavi pedes vestrâ—s c. If I being your Lord and Master have washed your feet ye also ought to wash the feet of one another This was a Precept yet hath the Church altered it lest the simple people should think a Re-baptization in it Why do not Protestants observe Christs Institution of washing one anothers feet before they receive the Sacrament So because the Apostle saith Accepi a Domino quod tradidi vobis c. I have received of the Lord the same which I delivered unto you that our Lord the same night that he was betrayed c. notwithstanding Christs Precept that the Sacrament should be administred after Supper the Church hath commanded it to be received fasting and Protestants do receive it before dinner And where Christ did break the Bread we receive the whole Host Christ ministred sitting at the Table we standing at the Altar Likewise it is commanded in the Acts that Christians should abstain à suffocato sanguine from things strangled and from blood but the Church hath altered it nor do Protestants observe it God commanded the Sabbath or Seventh day to be kept holy the Church hath altered it to the Sunday If then the Church may change things so expresly appointed in Scripture she may also change the form of the Laitys receiving under both kinds and that for divers reasons First That in carrying it to the Sick the Blood may not be shed lost or misused Next That no occasion might be given to Heretiques to think that there is not so much under one kind as under both But why would you have it under both kinds only to pervert and contradict the Practice of the Church For when you have it under both kinds ye believed in neither meaning a real presence in neither Now Sir as concerning the Sacrament of the Altar where you say you have a number of Doctors on your side and we none of ours indeed one to stop your mouth I think it not possible to find Nevertheless whereas your desire is to have one shewed you and then you will recant I will shew you two Ferebatur manibus suis saith St. Austin super Psal 33. I find not how this is true in David saith he literally that he was born in his own hands but in Christ I find it true literally when he gave his Body to his Apostles at his last Supper Again St. Cyprian de Coena Domini saith Panis quem Dominus Discipulis porrigebat non effigie sed natura mutatus Omnipotentia Verbi factus est Caro. What can be more plain than this yet to you it is not plain enough But give me your figurative significative and such other like terms and I will defend that Christ hath not yet ascended no nor yet that he was incarnate Wherefore I can only put you in the number of those whom S. Chrysostom speaks of Audi homo fidelis qui contra Haereticum contendis c. Hear O thou Christian canst thou hope to do more than Christ Christ confuted the Pharesees yet could not put them to silence Et tu fortior es Christo Wilt thou go about to silence him that will receive no Answer Thus much have I said not for you Mr. Cranmer for my hope that I conceived of you is now past and gone but somewhat to satisfie the rude unlearned people that they perceiving your Arrogancy may the better eschew your detestable and abominable Schism Fox pag. 658 659. Thus spake the Bishop of Glocester like a Catholique understanding Prelate After whom Dr. Story saith Fox thus inferred in words Master Cranmer you have made a goodly Process concerning your Heretical Oath made to the King but you forget your Oath made to the See Apostolique As concerning your Oath to the King if you made it to him only it took an end by his Death and so it is released if to his Successors well Sir the true Successors have the Empire now and they will have you to dissolve the same and become a member of Christs Church again it was no Oath for it lacked the three points of an Oath that is to say Justiciam Judicium Veritatem Thus Dr Story ibid. p. 659. Protestants will needs swear the King to be Supream in all Spiritual things or causes whether the King will or no and when they have sworn it they will obey him in such matters so far as they think good when he happens to be a Papist A. What followed after this B. After all this Cranmer made that Recantation which you have heard and retracted it again when he saw no hopes of his Pardon He had this reason to rejoyce says Fox that dying in such a Cause he was to be numbered amongst Christs Martyrs although he had no mind to be a Martyr much more worthy the Name of Saint Thomas of Canterbury than he whom the Pope had falsly canoniz'd meaning Thomas Becker p. 672. A. Of what Church dyed he a Member B. I cannot tell the Church of England being then abolished and Catholique Religion restored by Act of Parliament A. One Question you have not answered what were the Words of his Mission and Consecration both as Priest and Bishop B. That you shall hear by and by Give me leave to observe one or two passages more out of Dr. Burnet A. As to what Point B. As to that Candour and Simplicity which Burnet admires in him page 172. 1. vol. The Story is thus Burnet p. 172. second volume viz. In the year 1551. the fifth year of Edward the Sixth the business of the Lady Mary was taken up with more heat than formerly The Emperors earnest Suit that she might have Mass said in her House was long rejected Yet the State of England making his Friendship at that time necessary to the King and he refusing to continue in his League unless his Kinswoman obtained that Favour it was promised that for some time in hope she would reform there should be a Forbearance granted The Emperors Ambassador pressed to have a License for it under the great Seal it was answered that being against Law it could not be done The two grounds she went upon were that she would follow the ancient and universal way of Worship and not a new Invention that lay within the Four Seas these were her words and that she would continue in that Religion in which her Father King Henry had instructed her To this the King sent an Answer he was then scarce 14 years of age telling her that she was a part of this Church and Nation and so must conform her self to the Laws of it the Laws made by Cranmer Sommerset Dudley c. and that the way of Worship now set up was no other than what was clearly consonant to the pure Word of God that was King Edwards first Common Prayer Book which expresly commanded Prayers for the dead After this she was sent for to Court and