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cause_n body_n bread_n wine_n 1,851 5 8.1707 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A19656 The confutation of the mishapen aunswer to the misnamed, wicked ballade, called the Abuse of ye blessed sacrame[n]t of the aultare Wherin, thou haste (gentele reader) the ryghte vnderstandynge of al the places of scripture that Myles Hoggard, (wyth his learned counsail) hath wrested to make for the transubstanciation of the bread and wyne. Compiled by Robert Crowley. Anno. 1548. Crowley, Robert, 1518?-1588.; Huggarde, Miles. 1548 (1548) STC 6082; ESTC S109117 58,868 100

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fantasticall bodie but euen the same bodye that was borne of the virgyne Marie It semeth by your wordes that you thinke the Apostels to be of your opinion concerneing the pluralitie of Christes bodies To shewe them you saye what bodie it was that he mente he sayed y ● bodie which for oure synnes was brokē And stil thinkeing euerie mā to be of your owne opinion you aske vs y ● same questian Wherunto we answere euen as you coniecte no signe of a bodie but the selfe same bodi y t was borne of the virgine Marie Uoide this if you may saye you Alas pore fole whie triūphest thou before the victorie Thou thinkest y t al is ouerthrowne with this one weake argumēt Which in veridede is none argumēt but a mere cauillacion as shall moste plainely appeare to as● many as knowe how to fourme an argumēt Your argumēt or rather cauillaciō is fourmed in this wyse Thys is my bodye which shal be broken for you but the bodie that shal be brokē for you was borne of the virgine Marie Ergo this bodie was borne of the virgine Marie I thynke a man had nede to haue you to y ● vniuersitie to teach you to vnderstād your erroure in this argumēte For I perceiue you haue perswaded your selfe y ● euerie thinge y t may be brought into tourme of argument is infalliblie true Other wise you would not triumph vpon this argument I am sure Consider I praye you your maior prosicion if you knowe what a maior or proposicion meaneth then tel me wherther it be not a doubtful proposicion for a man holdeinge bread in his hād or rather haueing deliuered breade vnto other to saie this is my bodie which shal be brokē for you Is it not as like y ● he should by y ● proposiciō meane y ● the bread is his bodie in significacion as in substaūce Yesse verely more lyke considering the partie that spake the wordes and the cause whie that natural bodie of his was cōceiued borne of the virgine Mar●e againe the heares to whō the wordes were spokē the bread deliuered For ther be in y ● bread two thinges whiche do plainelie declare these 〈…〉 by y t the bread is the principanl fode of the bodie yea in the language y t he spake al kyndes of fode are called bread Christ therfore being the onely vniuersall fode of the soule is right wel declared signified vnto vs by thys bread The other thinge is the makeing of the bread of mani graines being but one bo●i whē it is made And therby is wel declared y ● vnitie of al faithful beleuers in Christ who being manie in nūbre are in fayth but one mistical bodye of Christe Lo here is your maior proposicion Aske your coūsalours how your cōclusion foloweth herupon I praie you thē tel me more of your mind I will spēd no more time w t you nowe about this argumēte because I thynke you may say by the termes of the arte as a certayne priste in the citie of Londō saied by thys terme trāsubstāciacion I could neuer knowe quoth he what this word trāsubstāciō should meane Wel you labour to proue by y ● same argumēt y ● the wine is y ● natural bloud of christe and thē you descant vpon Christes this when he sayed Do thys in the membraunce of me What this was it y ● he bade them do saie you was it not to bles to breake to geue to speake the same wordes y ● he spak● No fole no. But by those visible sygnes bread wyne to cal to remēbraūce the heauēli fedeing of th●ir soules and y ● inseparable vnitie of thē selues by faith Neither be the wordes y ● Christes spake the wordes of cōsecraciō or able to ●ourne the substaūce of creatures more thē the name Pe●tus which Christ gaue vnto Simon was able to turne Simon into a rockey or s●onye nature when Christ sayed ●ues Petrus et Supper h●nc petram et cetera The wordes therefore art the wordes of Christ but to cal the wordes of consecracion is a mere inuencion of mē As for your note in y ● magine is so wel applied to the purpose y ● I leaue it for men to laugh at thinkinge it no neede to confute y ● which fighteth with it self and is redie to ●ourne agayne and take you by the face in diuers places of your Answere Then ye call to remembraunce you saye yet one other thing Christ takeing y ● cup you say intēded to fulfil the moysaycal law in al pointes that is to saye to make the wyne his bloud which was prefigured by al the blud that was offered in the olde lawe Wherfore you saye if the wine remayne styll he fulfilled the law● with the figure of bloude so that one figure was the fulfilling of an other Lord god wha● beast coulde be so blind as you shewe your sel● to be wer it not that the spirite of errour reigneth in you It appeareth by your words that folow that you haue reade the Epistle to the Hebrues and yet you are not ashamed to saye that Christ instituted the sacramente to fulfyl● the lawe● Paule sayeth the offerynge of hym●selfe on the crosse was the thing that was pre-figured and you saye it was the sacrament I● thys your phantastical opinion be the trueth howe chaunceth it that in al the writteinges of the Apostles can not be founde one word of any such fulfilling of the lawe Paule wryttin● of the sacrifices of the olde lawe euen of p●rpose to declare the meaneing of thē declareth thē al to be fulfiled in the one onely offering 〈◊〉 of Christ on the crosse Also to the Corin. intēdeing to declare the true meaning of the yerel● passeouer lambe he sayeth Christ is offered 〈◊〉 oure pascall lambe Let vs therefore bancke 〈◊〉 not in the leuen of olde malice and wickednes but in the swete breades of sinceritie and veritie Loo here he applieth the passouer Lambe vnto Christe offered for oure synnes and the swete breades to our godlie conuersacion and liueing And yet as one thorowly blinded with affections you wyl conclude vpon an inconuenience If the wyne be not turned into verye bloud you say it is not so much to be estemed as the figur●s of the olde lawe ▪ For they were no fygures of bloude but verye bloude in dede Here you declare your selfe not to haue captiuated your senses for if you had you would not iudge the wyne to be a figure of bloud because it is red for other cause 〈◊〉 is none why you should so cōiect but you woulde wyth vs confesse that as Paul teach●th the wyne representeh vnto vs the wonderfull vnion of all the faythful beleuers in christ that they beinge infinite meanie in numbre are ●et but one bodie through the fayeth in Christ Iesu whiche knitteth theym to gether euen as ●he sin●es doo the bodie And this is declared sayth Paule by
therwyth ¶ The balad Ise men honour Both breade and wyne For christ our sauiour which he left for a sign To the beleuer Of hys death deuyne Lorde amende thys The answere Whoeuer hearde beaste so shamefully ly No Christen man doth honour breade or wine For nether kynds be there thoughe to our eye They do so apere yet faye●h doth defyne Christe hole to be ther by hys power deuine To whom the godhede is knit there Ioyntlye Whome we are bounde to honoure of dewtye ¶ The confutacion Here you wyll hange your selfe and aske me no leaue you wyl not walke out of the reache of the proclamacion You wyll styll be sayeing that scripture denieth and denie that scriptur affirmeth I am sorie that I was not of your counsayle before you published your answere for if I had I woulde haue shewed you thys daynger before Well nowe it is to late for I am sure you can not stop it but it wyll be shewed to the maiestrates and then you knowe theyr charge alredie The best counsayle that I cā geue you now is to make haste and recante For so shall you yet saue some parte of your honestie though it be but a verie little You saye no christen mā doth honour br●ade and wyne Hitherto you say●●rue for to honour breade and wine is the worke of an infidele But then you shewe a good cause whye men honour not breade and wine because the● is none to be honoured Here is occasion offered of moe questians then euer you woulde be able to solute euen with the helpe of all your secrete counsalours I myght aske you what thynge that is which the bodily eie seeth that the hande feleth that the taste discerneth that is broken that wa●th ●●a●mye when it take● weate that will putrifie and rotte if it be kept longer tyme then breade maye endure finally what that is whych must be burned when it is muldie so that ▪ the stomak abhorreth it I am sure you wyll not saye it is the bodye of Christe for that is not nor can not be otherwyse sene wyth the bodilie eie thē as it was is and shal be in the fourme of man it can not be broken for it is impassible it can not wa● slymye nor clammye for it is purified frome all slymie nature it can not putrifie for it is w t out all corruption it can not be burned ▪ because it is immortalle But here you wyl say that you haue allredie answered to these questians It appeareth you saye to be breade or wyne but fayeth defyneth an other maner of thynge That is that whole Christe as there and that the godhead also is ioyntlye knytte vnto the same Christe beynge there so that of duitie we muste ho●our hym in these formes Then note you in the margent Blessed be they that beleue and se not Wher you fal●ifie the texte whych hath Blessed are they that sawe not and b●leued spoken in reproch of the herd belyue of Didimus that woulde not beleue the resurrection of hys maister Christe by the reporte of them that sawe hym risen not wythstandynye he knewe that Christe had promised before hys death that he woulde rise agayne the thirde daye but sayed he woulde firste se the fastening of y ● nayles in his handes and put his finger in the holes and his hande into hys syde yer he woulde beleue But when he had sene and confessed sayeinge My Lorde and my God then Christe sayed vnto hym Because thou hast s●ne me Thomas thou hast be leued Happy or blessed are they that sawe not and beleued ▪ meaneyng therby the fathers and prophetes of the olde lawe whiche sawe hym not wyth the bodily eie and yet beleued al that they writte of hym concerninge his cominge in the fleshe whiche Thomas woulde not b●leue tyll he sawe it Thus you declare your knoledge in the scritures to be but base as theyrs is that are of your counsayle But nowe let vs returne to yo●r answere It appeareth to our eie you saye to be breade and wyne but fayth defineth whole Christe to be ther by his powre diuine Here you speake subtyllye You thynke you haue plentie of startynge holes in thys piece of your answere Fayth defyneth you saye that whole Christe is ther by his powre diuine so y ● if we woulde charge you w t the proclamatiō and saye that you affirme the natu●all reall ▪ and to ●all presence of Christe God and man fleshe blude and bones toth and naiale and all together then you wyll saye no syr ▪ I mente no suche thynge He is ther by hys powre diuine euen as he hath promised to be with his church vnto the ende of the world You are answered Not yet frende hogherde For thys presence that you speake of whiche Christe promised to hys sayethful is an inuisible assistence of g●ace as appeareth by the circumstaunce of the text where thys promise is mencioned For after he had geuen them in commaundement to preache vnto all nacions and to baptise them in the name of the father the sonne and the holy gost ●●achinge them to kepe all thinges that I haue geuen you commaundement he sayed Beholde I am w t y●u euen vnto the ende of the world meaneinge none other thynge then he did whē he sayed wher so euer to or thre be gathered together in my name ther am I in the middes of them That is to saye be you neuer so fewe in number be you neuer so little regarded of the worlde and worldelye wys● feare not to t●stifie and wytnesse my trueth vnto all nacions baptiseynge and teachynge them to kepe all thynges that I haue commaunded you not your owne dreames not your own phantasies for then you go in your owne name and ▪ not in myne and be holde I am wyth you all the dayes euen to the ende of the worlde I wyll confounde your enimies they shall not be able to re●iste the spirite that shall speake in you I my selfe whych am all one wyth my father wylbe continua●ly wyth you Thus you se frende Hoggarde that thys pre●ence of Christe with hys churche is not anatural and inuisible presence vnder a visible forme as my Lorde of Wynchester teacheth you but it is a mercifull assistence of the immense and in comprehencible godheade wych is presente in all places but assistent to his electe onely So that if you wyl not haue Christ naturally really and carnally presēt you must not say● that whole Christe is ther that is to saye God and man for so as saynt Augustine witnessethe w t expresse wordes he was on the earth and not in heauen ●where he is nowe in as muche as he was man whan he sayde Noman ascendeth into heauen but onely the son of man whyche is in heauen and dyd also des●ende frome heauen One persone saieth the same Augustine is ●oeth God and man and boeth these natures are bu● one Christe by y ● he is God in al places but