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A14408 Acts of the dispute and conference holden at Paris, in the moneths of Iuly and August. 1566. Betweene two doctors of Sorbon, and two ministers of the Reformed Church A most excellent tract, wherein the learned may take pleasure, and the ignorant reape knowledge. Translated out of French by Iohn Golburne, and diuided according to the daies.; Actes de la dispute & conference tenue à Paris. English. Golburne, John.; Vigor, Simon, d. 1575.; Sainctes, Claude de, 1525-1591.; Du Rosier, Hugues Sureau.; L'Espine, Jean de, ca. 1506-1597. 1602 (1602) STC 24727; ESTC S119134 189,279 272

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against his Maiestie and that with the sorrow and displeasure he hath for the same he cast himselfe betweene the armes of his sonne stretched out vpon the Crosse to haue thereof a generall and full abolition And that euen so with such a faith and repentance hee be prepared to present himselfe worthily at the table of the Lord and to receiue the good things which are there administred The Sermon ended the Minister recyteth with an high and audible voyce and his face turned towards the people the words of the institution and ordinance of the Supper together with a briefe and short declaration of the same That done he denounceth to all those not fully instructed and Catechised that they depart and to all them which are excommunicated or attainted with some sinnes or scandalous crimes whereof they haue made no satisfaction to the Church that they abstaine therefrom and pollute not the table of the Lord. After that the Minister goeth to the table where hauing taken the bread and giuen thankes to God he breaketh it and giueth it to the people there assembled And also presently the Cup to all them that communicate which being ended he giueth thankes to God and dismisseth the people The Ministers following in all these things the example and rule which Iesus Christ hath giuen them cannot imagine wherevpon the Doctors haue grounded that their saying of the Supper calling it a prophane and polluted banquet And they cannot perceiue what they could or would reproue in all theyr action vnlesse peraduenture they will taxe them for not hauing Aulbes stoles fanets Crosses holy water banners Chisibles tunicles lights Incense belles singing in a straunge and vnknowne language Musicke and Organes holy napkins Aultars Clearkes to answere Et cum spiritu tuo nor words addressed to the bread and wine which haue no eares after the maner of Inchanters nor the Crosse signes nor any eleuation of the bread and wine to cause them to be adored nor other like aperies of mans inuentiō and drawne part from Iudaisme and part from Paganisme The obseruation of which things the Ministers would make great conscience of because they be but Idolatries and superstitions whereby the puritie integritie of Christian Religion is wholly wasted and corrupted Answeres to the questions proposed by the Doctors touching the Supper FOr answere to the first question the Ministers say that the Sacrament in perfection considered consisteth in three things One whereof is the Element which Ireneus calleth a thing earthy the other the thing signified called by the same author a thing heauenly And the third is the word by which the earthy thing is deputed to signifie the heauenly and assureth them of the exhibition thereof that with faith do present themselues to receiue it For answere to the second question the Ministers say that the ordinance of God contained in his word and declared by his Minister according to his commandement is this word word necessary with the E●ment to constitute the Sacrament and not the onely lowe and secret pronunciation of certaine vnkowne words addressed to the elements nor any vertue which is hidden in the same For answere to the third question the Ministers say that by the word aforesaid the signes bee chaunged not as touching the nature or as touching the substance but as touching the vse onely and that only during the action whervnto they serue For answere to the fourth question the Ministers say that the bread and wine which before the action of the Supper were common are consecrated in the Supper that is to say deputed by the said word and ordinance of God declared by the Ministers to a holy and sacred vse which is to represent and exhibit the things by them signified The answere to the fourth question sufficeth for the fift For answere to the sixt question the Ministers say that the faithfull receiue not onely in the Supper the gifts and graces of Iesus Christ as his tighteousnesse life and the other fruites of his sacrifice but that they also receiue and possesse himselfe and are made one with him no lesse truly and straightly then the members are conioyned to the head And they say moreouer that this coniunction is the spring and meane of all the benefites which flowe from the grace of God by him into vs but they adde that this reception must bee wholly attributed to the free operation of the holy Ghost which maketh vs fit and capable to knowe our Lord Iesus Christ with all his vertues and properties and in knowing him to trust in him and in reposing our trust in him to possesse and wholly enioy him For answere to the seuenth question the Ministers say that they reiect and reproue the word Concomitance and more also the thing thereby signified for as much as that hath beene the cause for which the common people hath bene depriued and excluded from one of the essentiall parts of the Sacrament namely from the participation of the Cuppe And they say that it is an attempt against the diuine Maiestie to seperate what the sonne of God hath ioyned together and to deny to some of his members that which he hath willed and commaunded to be common to all Ioyned that the reason of the Sacrament requireth it which was instituted for our spirituall nourishment The which as doth the corporall consisteth in drinke meate To the ende then that there be some correspondency betweene them two it behoueth that as we are fed with the flesh of Iesus Christ crucified So be we also watered with his blood shead for the remission of sinnes To be short seeing that the Supper was chiefly instituted to shewe foorth the Lords death and that in his death his blood was seperated from his bodie Meete it is that the bread and wine be there administred to represent the one and the other and more clearly to propose vnto vs all the mistery of the death of Iesus Christ For answere to the eight question the Ministers do acknowledge no other cause nor meane of remission of sinnes then the grace of God the blood of Iesus Christ and faith whereby the effect of Gods grace and the fruit of the death of Iesus Christ are applied vnto vs. For answere to the ninth question the Ministers do say that the faithfull comming to the Supper do not come thither to receiue there a new Iesus Christ with whom they had not bene formerly conioyned nor a new righteousnes which had not bene communicated vnto them And they adde that if some one did present himselfe there without faith for want whereof he should not be vnited incorporated and engraffed into Iesus Christ to bee partaker of his righteousnes life and all other his gifts and blessings that the holy Supper in that case should be as vnprofitable to him as is meate vnptofitable to a dead man But if liuing by the meanes aforesayd namely the grace of God the blood of Iesus Christ and faith he present himselfe
the reall presence of the body and bloud of Iesus Christ in the holy Sacrament And shall moreouer be verified in that the Doctors haue obiected to the Ministers some arguments against their Supper to make them enter into the same Vnto which they haue nothing answered or so impertinently at the least as one may iudge by the reading of their answere that they fled the Lists as yet also they do by their last writing hiding as much as they possibly can what they thinke of the Supper albeit they haue bene admonished to answere therevnto plainely and to purpose Whether the Doctors or the Ministers retyre shall bee seene by effect For albeit the Ministers will not answer the Doctors will not leaue to aduise them thereof and to manifest to all the world the intollerable errors which bee in the Supper and in all the doctrine of the Ministers Who beeing demaunded dare not confesse and auouch by writing what hath beene written by the inuenters of theyr Supper Now to begin to speake thereof the Ministrrs do maintaine it to be celebrated according to the ordinances of Iesus Christ and after the fashion which the Apostles vsed and all the Primitiue Church whiles it flourished and abode in it puritie Wherevpon the Doctors demaund how long the Ministers esteeme the doctrine of the Supper to abide in it puritie And whether the Church were not then as pure in the doctrine of all the other articles as of this Furthermore whether since that time there is not some place in the world where the true doctrine of the Supper and of other Articles haue beene retained and conserued and whether such doctrine hath euer continued without interruption and in what place and by whom hath it bene preached and set forth and from age to age The Doctors desire the Ministers to make declaration thereof for that it much importeth For as much as before Caluin put forth his Catechisme there was no memorie that such doctrine as he taught had bene held in any Region and the Supper was not celebrated after the fashion and maner as it is celebrated in the Church called Reformed The Doctors would willingly cheare vp the Ministers who are much disquieted in their writing because the Doctors haue said that their Supper differeth not from a common banquet except in that it is worse as being prophane and polluted To meete wherwithall the Ministers haue made a great narration of the whole action of their Supper and by faire shewes which haue a forme of all godlinesse they endeuour to make it very commendable and to couer a new nothing betweene two platters And contrariwise that they may tread vnder foote and abase the thrise precious sacrifice of the body and bloud of Iesus Christ in the Masse by renting in peeces some shewe of him as if they were vsed without reason or signification which the Ministers vnderstand not or make semblance not to vnderstand But things ought not to be prised and esteemed by their shewes but according to their value nature and truth Moreouer the Ministers should foresee that all the Sects which bee now in the world against the Church Catholique for the act of the holy Sacrament doo vse at the least as faire shewe as they And were they thereof asked there is not any which would not enforce himselfe to proue that it approacheth nearer to Iesus Christ and his Apostles and the Primitiue Church then the pretended reformed Religion dooth Concerning all which the Doctors referre them to the writings of the Lutherans Zuinglianists Anabaptists Trinitaries Maister Alasco and such like For vnreasonable it is by such faire deceits to preferre the Supper of the Ministers to other Sects to iudge it good holy vnpolluted and according to the word of God but to repute it rather polluted and defiled with impietie for as much as it cloaketh a lye in stead of truth and giueth the shewe of pietie to impietie and falshood Also the Doctors haue not dispraised the Supper of the Ministers for the praises therein giuen to God or for the confession they there make of their sinnes or the preaching if it contained the truth or for other preparation But therefore did they say it was detestable because against the ordinance of Iesus Christ it contained not but common bread and wine and yet that they attributed vnto it some spirituall effect and other faire pretext of godlinesse The which is an abhominable thing and inuentiō of Sathan who endeuoureth by such maner of Supper to abolish and extinguish the true Supper according to the institution of Iesus Christ and to depriue the faithfull of the fruite and veritie of the same Supper in causing them to giue common bread onely instead of the body and blood of our sauiour Iesus Christ The Doctors could as well recyte the euill shewes as the Ministers do recyte the good which be in their Supper as the secrets the new enterprises practised vnder colour and shadow of assemblies made in their said Supper But to the ende the Ministers reproach not the Doctors that Priests spake of armes of contributions c. they passe it ouer with silence and referre them to the thing it self and wil content themselues to declare some causes whereby they maintaine that there is no truth in the same Supper according to the institution of Iesus Christ which are such as follow That in the Supper of the Ministers and theyr like no consecration can be made of the matter of bread wine which are there proposed And that for this cause there is not in the same matter any change made be it before or in or after the vse And by consequence that the bread and wine in such a Supper cannot be but common That no consideratiō is made in their Supper hereby appeareth first that it belongeth not to all persons to consecrate bread and wine in the Supper but onely to those that by imposition of the Pastors and Bishops hands are lawfully ordained according to the succession from the Apostles time euen vnto vs. Now certaine it is that the most part of the Ministers of the Church called Reformed be not ordained by the laying on of the Pastors hands who haue the power by succession frō one to an other since the Apostles Whereof we must conclude that such Ministers vsurping the office which pertaineth not to them cannot make any consecration and giue not by consequence but common bread and wine Which article shall be spoken of when we shall entreat of the sacrifice and Priesthood Secondly to make consecration of the bread and wine it sufficeth not that the person be fit to consecrate the matter but also it is necessary that the lawfull Minister by a certaine meane do make the consecration to wit by blessing and pronouncing of certaine words ouer the matter proposed euen as Iesus Christ hath first obserued it And because the Ministers albeit they were lawfully ordained and that they had authoritie and power to