in_o particular_a admonish_v that_o for_o so_o small_a a_o cause_n propter_fw-la tam_fw-la modicam_fw-la causam_fw-la he_o shall_v not_o have_v cut_v off_o so_o many_o province_n from_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n and_o last_o see_v the_o eccesiastical_a story_n of_o those_o time_n mention_n not_o other_o notable_a example_n of_o any_o such_o schismatical_a presumption_n but_o this_o of_o victor_n certain_o we_o have_v great_a inducement_n to_o imagine_v that_o irenaeus_n in_o this_o place_n by_o you_o quote_v have_v a_o special_a aim_n at_o the_o bishop_n and_o church_n of_o rome_n once_o this_o i_o be_o sure_a of_o that_o the_o place_n fit_v he_o and_o many_o of_o his_o successor_n as_o well_o as_o if_o it_o have_v be_v make_v purposely_o for_o they_o and_o this_o also_o that_o he_o which_o find_v fault_n with_o they_o who_o separate_v upon_o small_a cause_n imply_v clear_o that_o he_o conceive_v their_o might_n be_v such_o cause_n as_o be_v great_a and_o sufficient_a and_o that_o then_o a_o reformation_n be_v to_o be_v make_v notwithstanding_o any_o danger_n of_o division_n that_o may_v ensue_v upon_o it_o 12._o last_o s._n denis_n of_o alexandria_n say_v indeed_o and_o very_o well_o that_o all_o thing_n shall_v be_v rather_o endure_v than_o we_o shall_v consent_v to_o the_o division_n of_o the_o church_n i_o will_v add_v rather_o than_o consent_v to_o the_o continuation_n of_o the_o division_n if_o it_o may_v be_v remedy_v but_o then_o i_o be_o to_o tell_v you_o that_o he_o say_v not_o all_o thing_n shall_v rather_o be_v do_v but_o only_o all_o thing_n shall_v rather_o be_v endure_v or_o suffer_v wherein_o he_o speak_v not_o of_o the_o evil_a of_o sin_n but_o of_o pain_n and_o misery_n not_o of_o tolerate_v either_o error_n or_o sin_n in_o other_o though_o that_o may_v be_v lawful_a much_o less_o of_o join_v with_o other_o for_o quietness_n sake_n which_o only_o be_v to_o your_o purpose_n in_o the_o profession_n of_o error_n and_o practice_n of_o sin_n but_o of_o suffer_v any_o affliction_n nay_o even_o martyrdom_n in_o our_o own_o person_n rather_o than_o consent_v to_o the_o division_n of_o the_o church_n omnia_fw-la incommoda_fw-la so_o your_o own_o christophorson_n enforce_v by_o the_o circumstance_n of_o the_o place_n translate_v dionysius_n his_o word_n all_o misery_n shall_v rather_o be_v endure_v than_o we_o shall_v consent_v to_o the_o church_n division_n 13._o ad_fw-la §_o 9_o in_o this_o paragraph_n you_o tell_v we_o first_o that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o total_a deficiency_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n maintain_v by_o many_o chief_a protestant_n imply_v in_o it_o vast_a absurdity_n or_o rather_o sacrilegious_a blasphemy_n answ_n but_o neither_o do_v the_o protestant_n allege_v by_o you_o maintain_v the_o deficiency_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n but_o only_o of_o the_o church_n visibility_n or_o of_o the_o church_n as_o it_o be_v visible_a neither_o do_v they_o hold_v that_o the_o visible_a church_n have_v fail_v total_o from_o its_o essence_n but_o only_o from_o its_o purity_n and_o that_o it_o fall_v into_o many_o corruption_n but_o yet_o not_o to_o nothing_o you_o say_v second_o that_o the_o reason_n which_o cast_v they_o upon_o this_o wicked_a doctrine_n be_v a_o desperate_a voluntary_a necessity_n because_o they_o be_v resolve_v not_o to_o acknowledge_v the_o roman_a to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n and_o be_v convince_v by_o all_o manner_n of_o evidence_n that_o for_o diverse_a age_n before_o luther_n there_o be_v no_o other_o but_o this_o be_v not_o to_o dispute_v but_o to_o divine_a and_o take_v upon_o you_o the_o property_n of_o god_n which_o be_v to_o know_v the_o heart_n of_o men._n for_o why_o i_o pray_v may_v not_o the_o reason_n hereof_o rather_o be_v because_o they_o be_v convince_v by_o all_o manner_n of_o evidence_n as_o scripture_n reason_n antiquity_n that_o all_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o the_o world_n but_o above_o all_o the_o roman_a have_v degenerate_v from_o the_o purity_n of_o the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n and_o thereupon_o do_v conclude_v there_o be_v no_o visible_a church_n mean_v by_o no_o church_n none_o free_a from_o corruption_n and_o conformable_a in_o all_o thing_n to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o christ_n 14._o ad_fw-la §_o 10._o neither_o be_v there_o any_o repugnance_n but_o in_o word_n only_o between_o these_o as_o you_o be_v please_v to_o style_v they_o exterminate_v spirit_n and_o those_o other_o who_o out_o of_o courtesy_n you_o entitle_v in_o your_o 10._o §_o more_o moderate_a protestant_n for_o these_o affirm_v the_o perpetual_a visibility_n of_o the_o church_n yet_o neither_o deny_v nor_o doubt_n of_o she_o be_v subject_a to_o manifold_a and_o grievous_a corruption_n and_o those_o of_o such_o a_o nature_n as_o be_v they_o not_o mitigate_v by_o invincible_a or_o at_o least_o a_o very_a probable_a ignorance_n none_o subject_a to_o they_o can_v be_v save_v and_o they_o on_o the_o other_o side_n deny_v the_o church_n visibility_n yet_o plain_o affirm_v that_o they_o conceive_v very_o good_a hope_n of_o the_o salvation_n of_o many_o of_o their_o ignorant_a and_o honest_a forefather_n thus_o declare_v plain_o though_o in_o word_n they_o deny_v the_o visibility_n of_o the_o true_a church_n yet_o their_o meaning_n be_v not_o to_o deny_v the_o perpetuity_n but_o the_o perpetual_a purity_n and_o incorruption_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n 17._o ad_fw-la §_o 11._o you_o ask_v to_o what_o congregation_n shall_v a_o man_n have_v recourse_n for_o the_o affair_n of_o his_o soul_n if_o upon_o earth_n there_o be_v no_o visible_a church_n of_o christ_n answ_n if_o some_o one_o christian_a live_v alone_o among_o pagan_n in_o some_o country_n remote_a from_o christendom_n shall_v we_o conceive_v it_o impossible_a for_o this_o man_n to_o be_v save_v because_o he_o can_v have_v recourse_n to_o any_o congregation_n for_o the_o affair_n of_o his_o soul_n will_v it_o not_o be_v sufficient_a for_o such_o a_o one_o salvation_n to_o know_v the_o doctrine_n of_o christ_n and_o live_v according_a to_o it_o 18._o obj._n to_o imagine_v a_o company_n of_o man_n believe_v one_o thing_n in_o their_o heart_n and_o with_o their_o mouth_n profess_v the_o contrary_n as_o they_o must_v be_v suppose_v to_o do_v for_o if_o they_o have_v profess_v what_o they_o believe_v they_o will_v have_v become_v visible_a be_v to_o dream_v of_o a_o damn_a crew_n of_o dissemble_a sycophant_n but_o not_o to_o conceive_v aright_o of_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n answ_n what_o be_v this_o to_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o church_n may_v not_o the_o church_n be_v invisible_a and_o yet_o these_o that_o be_v of_o it_o profess_v their_o faith_n no_o say_v you_o their_o profession_n will_v make_v they_o visible_a very_o true_a visible_a in_o the_o place_n where_o and_o in_o the_o time_n when_o they_o live_v and_o to_o those_o person_n unto_o who_o they_o have_v necessary_a occasion_n to_o make_v their_o profession_n but_o not_o visible_a to_o all_o or_o any_o great_a or_o considerable_a part_n of_o the_o world_n while_o they_o live_v much_o less_o conspicuous_a to_o all_o age_n after_o they_o now_o it_o be_v a_o church_n thus_o illustrious_o and_o conspicuous_o visible_a that_o you_o require_v by_o who_o splendour_n all_o man_n may_v be_v direct_v and_o draw_v to_o repair_v to_o she_o for_o the_o affair_n of_o their_o soul_n neither_o be_v it_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o church_n absolute_o but_o this_o degree_n of_o it_o which_o the_o most_o rigid_a protestant_n deny_v which_o be_v plain_a enough_o out_o of_o the_o place_n of_o napper_n cite_v by_o you_o in_o your_o 9_o part._n of_o this_o chap_a where_o his_o word_n be_v god_n have_v withdraw_v his_o visible_a church_n from_o open_a assembly_n to_o the_o heart_n of_o particular_a godly_a man_n and_o this_o church_n which_o have_v not_o open_a assembly_n he_o call_v the_o latent_fw-la and_o invisible_a church_n now_o i_o hope_v papist_n in_o england_n will_v be_v very_o apt_a to_o grant_v man_n may_v be_v so_o far_a latent_fw-la and_o invisible_a as_o not_o to_o profess_v their_o faith_n in_o open_a assembly_n nor_o to_o proclaim_v it_o to_o all_o the_o world_n and_o yet_o not_o deny_v nor_o dissemble_v it_o nor_o deserve_v to_o be_v esteem_v a_o damn_a crew_n of_o dissemble_a sycophant_n obj._n but_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n can_v but_o make_v a_o church_n visible_a and_o these_o be_v inseparable_a note_n of_o the_o church_n i_o answer_v they_o be_v so_o far_o inseparable_a that_o wheresoever_o they_o be_v there_o a_o church_n be_v but_o not_o so_o but_o that_o in_o some_o case_n there_o may_v be_v a_o church_n where_o these_o note_n be_v not_o again_o these_o note_n will_v make_v the_o church_n visible_a but_o to_o who_o certain_o not_o to_o all_o man_n nor_o to_o most_o man_n but_o to_o they_o only_o to_o who_o
necessary_a to_o the_o church_n to_o be_v so_o than_o it_o be_v impossible_a the_o church_n shall_v acquire_v this_o essence_n or_o this_o property_n afterward_o and_o therefore_o impossible_a it_o shall_v have_v it_o at_o the_o time_n of_o luther_n rise_n necessarium_fw-la est_fw-la quod_fw-la non_fw-la aliquando_fw-la inest_fw-la aliquando_fw-la non_fw-la inest_fw-la alicui_fw-la inest_fw-la alicui_fw-la non_fw-la inest_fw-la sed_fw-la quod_fw-la semper_fw-la &_o omni_fw-la arist_n post_n analyt_v again_o every_o sophister_n know_v that_o of_o particular_n nothing_o can_v be_v conclude_v and_o therefore_o he_o that_o will_v show_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o adherent_n of_o it_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n at_o luther_n rise_v he_o must_v argue_v thus_o it_o be_v always_o so_o therefore_o than_o it_o be_v so_o now_o this_o antecedent_n be_v overthrow_v by_o any_o instance_n to_o the_o contrary_a and_o so_o the_o first_o antecedent_n be_v prove_v false_a the_o first_o consequent_a can_v but_o be_v false_a for_o what_o reason_n can_v be_v imagine_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o adherent_n of_o it_o be_v not_o the_o whole_a catholic_n church_n at_o s._n cyprian_n time_n and_o be_v at_o luther_n rise_n if_o you_o grant_v as_o i_o think_v you_o can_v deny_v that_o a_o church_n divide_v from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o roman_a may_v be_v still_o in_o truth_n and_o in_o god_n account_n a_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n we_o speak_v of_o than_o i_o hope_v mr._n lewgars_n argument_n from_o unity_n of_o communion_n be_v fall_v to_o the_o ground_n and_o it_o will_v be_v no_o good_a plea_n to_o say_v some_o one_o church_n not_o consist_v of_o divers_a communion_n be_v the_o catholic_n church_n at_o luther_n rise_n no_o one_o church_n can_v be_v name_v to_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n but_o the_o roman_a therefore_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v the_o catholic_n at_o luther_n rise_n for_o mr._n lewgar_n have_v not_o nor_o can_v prove_v the_o major_a of_o this_o syllogism_n certain_o true_a but_o to_o the_o contrary_n i_o have_v prove_v that_o it_o can_v be_v certain_o true_a by_o show_v divers_a instance_n wherein_o divers_a divide_a communion_n have_v make_v up_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o therefore_o not_o the_o divide_n of_o the_o communion_n but_o the_o cause_n and_o ground_n of_o it_o be_v to_o be_v regard_v whether_o it_o be_v just_a and_o sufficient_a or_o unjust_a and_o insufficient_a neither_o be_v the_o bishop_n or_o church_n of_o rome_n with_o the_o adherent_n of_o it_o a_o infallible_a judge_n thereof_o for_o it_o be_v evident_a both_o he_o and_o it_o have_v err_v herein_o divers_a time_n which_o i_o have_v evince_v already_o by_o divers_a example_n which_o i_o will_v not_o repeat_v but_o add_v to_o they_o one_o confess_v by_o mr._n lewgar_n himself_o in_o his_o discourse_n upon_o the_o article_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n pag._n 84._o s._n athanasius_n be_v excommunicate_v though_o by_o the_o it_o the_o how_o by_o the_o whole_a church_n when_o himself_o be_v part_n of_o it_o and_o communicate_v still_o with_o divers_a other_o part_n of_o it_o whole_a church_n yet_o may_v remain_v a_o member_n of_o christ_n body_n not_o visible_a for_o that_o be_v impossible_a excommunicate_v impossible_a what_o not_o to_o they_o who_o know_v and_o believe_v he_o to_o be_v unjust_o excommunicate_v that_o a_o person_n cut_v off_o from_o visible_a communion_n though_o unjust_o shall_v be_v a_o visible_a member_n of_o the_o church_n but_o by_o invisible_a communion_n by_o reason_n of_o the_o invalidity_n of_o the_o sentence_n which_o be_v unjust_a be_v valid_a enough_o to_o visible_a excision_n but_o not_o far_o ii_o a_o discourse_n against_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n with_o a_o answer_n to_o all_o those_o text_n of_o scripture_n that_o be_v allege_v to_o prove_v it_o the_o condition_n of_o communion_n with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n without_o the_o performance_n whereof_o no_o man_n can_v be_v receive_v into_o it_o be_v this_o that_o he_o believe_v firm_o and_o without_o doubt_v whatsoever_o that_o church_n require_v he_o to_o believe_v it_o be_v impossible_a that_o any_o man_n shall_v certain_o believe_v any_o thing_n unless_o that_o thing_n be_v either_o evident_a of_o itself_o as_o that_o twice_o two_o be_v four_o that_o every_o whole_a be_v great_a than_o a_o part_n of_o itself_o or_o unless_o he_o have_v some_o certain_a reason_n at_o least_o some_o suppose_a certain_a reason_n and_o infallible_a guide_n for_o his_o belief_n thereof_o the_o doctrine_n which_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n require_v to_o be_v believe_v be_v not_o evident_a of_o themselves_o for_o then_o every_o one_o will_v grant_v they_o at_o first_o hear_v without_o any_o further_a proof_n he_o therefore_o that_o will_v believe_v they_o must_v have_v some_o certain_a and_o infallible_a ground_n whereupon_o to_o build_v his_o belief_n of_o they_o there_o be_v no_o other_o ground_n for_o a_o man_n belief_n of_o they_o especial_o in_o many_o point_n but_o only_o a_o assurance_n of_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n now_o this_o point_n of_o that_o church_n infallibility_n be_v not_o evident_a of_o itself_o for_o than_o no_o man_n can_v choose_v but_o in_o his_o heart_n believe_v it_o without_o far_a proof_n second_o it_o be_v in_o vain_a to_o bring_v any_o proof_n of_o it_o as_o vain_a as_o to_o light_v a_o candle_n to_o show_v man_n the_o sun_n three_o it_o be_v impossible_a to_o bring_v any_o proof_n of_o it_o see_v nothing_o can_v be_v more_o evident_a than_o that_o which_o of_o itself_o be_v evident_a and_o nothing_o can_v be_v bring_v in_o proof_n of_o any_o thing_n which_o be_v not_o more_o evident_a than_o that_o matter_n to_o be_v prove_v but_o now_o experience_n teach_v that_o million_o there_o be_v which_o have_v hear_v talk_n of_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o yet_o do_v not_o believe_v that_o the_o defender_n of_o it_o do_v not_o think_v it_o either_o vain_a or_o impossible_a to_o go_v about_o to_o prove_v it_o and_o from_o hence_o it_o follow_v plain_o that_o this_o point_n be_v not_o evident_a of_o itself_o neither_o be_v there_o any_o other_o certain_a ground_n for_o any_o man_n belief_n of_o it_o or_o if_o there_o be_v i_o desire_v it_o may_v be_v produce_v as_o who_o be_o ready_a and_o most_o willing_a to_o submit_v my_o judgement_n to_o it_o full_o persuade_v that_o none_o can_v be_v produce_v that_o will_v endure_v a_o severe_a and_o impartial_a examination_n if_o it_o be_v say_v the_o roman_a church_n be_v to_o be_v believe_v infallible_a because_o the_o scripture_n say_v it_o be_v so_o 1._o i_o demand_v how_o shall_v i_o be_v assure_v of_o the_o text_n that_o be_v allege_v that_o they_o be_v indeed_o scripture_n that_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o the_o answer_n to_o this_o must_v be_v either_o because_o the_o church_n tell_v i_o so_o or_o some_o other_o if_o any_o other_o be_v give_v than_o all_o be_v not_o final_o resolve_v into_o and_o build_v upon_o that_o church_n authority_n and_o this_o answer_n than_o i_o hope_v a_o protestant_n may_v have_v leave_n to_o make_v use_n of_o when_o he_o be_v put_v to_o that_o perilous_a question_n how_o know_v you_o the_o scripture_n to_o be_v the_o scripture_n if_o the_o answer_n be_v because_o the_o church_n tell_v i_o so_o my_o reply_n be_v ready_a that_o to_o believe_v that_o church_n be_v infallible_a because_o the_o scripture_n say_v so_o and_o that_o the_o scripture_n be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n because_o the_o same_o church_n say_v so_o be_v nothing_o else_o but_o to_o believe_v the_o church_n be_v infallible_a because_o the_o church_n say_v so_o which_o be_v infallible_a 2._o i_o can_v never_o yet_o from_o the_o begin_n of_o genesis_n to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o apocalypse_n find_v it_o write_v so_o much_o as_o once_o in_o express_a term_n or_o equivalent_o that_o the_o church_n in_o subordination_n to_o the_o sea_n of_o rome_n shall_v be_v always_o infallible_a 3._o if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o this_o be_v draw_v from_o good_a consequence_n from_o scripture_n true_o interpret_v i_o demand_v what_o certain_a ground_n have_v i_o to_o warrant_v i_o that_o this_o consequence_n be_v good_a and_o this_o interpretation_n true_a and_o if_o answer_v be_v make_v that_o reason_n will_v tell_v i_o so_o i_o reply_v 1._o that_o this_o be_v to_o build_v all_o upon_o my_o own_o reason_n and_o private_a interpretation_n 2._o i_o have_v great_a reason_n to_o fear_v that_o reason_n assure_v no_o man_n that_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n may_v be_v deduce_v from_o scripture_n by_o good_a and_o firm_a consequence_n 4._o if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o a_o consent_n of_o father_n do_v so_o interpret_v the_o scripture_n i_o answer_v 1._o that_o
predetermination_n or_o against_o it_o stephen_n bishop_n of_o rome_n hold_v it_o as_o a_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o apostolic_a tradition_n that_o heretic_n give_v true_a baptism_n other_o there_o be_v and_o they_o as_o good_a catholic_n as_o he_o that_o hold_v that_o this_o be_v neither_o matter_n of_o faith_n nor_o matter_n of_o truth_n justin_n martyr_n and_o irenaeus_n hold_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o millenaries_n as_o a_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o though_o justin_n martyr_v deny_v it_o yet_o you_o i_o hope_v will_v affirm_v that_o some_o good_a christian_n hold_v the_o contrary_n s._n augustine_n i_o be_o sure_a hold_v the_o communicate_v of_o infant_n as_o much_o apostolic_a tradition_n as_o the_o baptise_v of_o they_o whether_o the_o bishop_n and_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n of_o his_o time_n hold_v so_o too_o or_o hold_v otherwise_o i_o desire_v you_o to_o determine_v but_o sure_o i_o be_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n at_o this_o present_a hold_v the_o contrary_a the_o 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the_o opposite_a part_n err_v damnable_o and_o deny_v god_n truth_n sufficient_o propound_v or_o they_o do_v not_o if_o they_o do_v than_o they_o which_o do_v deny_v god_n truth_n sufficient_o propound_v may_v go_v to_o heaven_n and_o than_o you_o be_v rash_a and_o uncharitable_a in_o exclude_v we_o though_o we_o be_v guilty_a of_o this_o fault_n if_o not_o then_o there_o be_v no_o such_o necessity_n that_o of_o two_o disagree_v about_o a_o matter_n of_o faith_n one_o shall_v deny_v god_n truth_n sufficient_o propound_v and_o so_o the_o major_a and_o minor_a of_o your_o argument_n be_v prove_v false_a yet_o though_o they_o be_v as_o true_a as_o gospel_n and_o as_o evident_a as_o mathematical_a principle_n the_o conclusion_n so_o impertinent_a be_v it_o to_o the_o premise_n may_v still_o be_v false_a for_o that_o which_o natural_o issue_v from_o these_o proposition_n be_v not_o therefore_o one_o only_o can_v be_v save_v but_o therefore_o one_o of_o they_o do_v something_o that_o be_v damnable_a but_o with_o what_o logic_n or_o what_o charity_n you_o can_v infer_v either_o as_o the_o immediate_a production_n of_o the_o former_a premise_n or_o as_o a_o corollary_n from_o this_o conclusion_n therefore_o one_o only_o can_v be_v save_v i_o do_v not_o understand_v unless_o you_o will_v pretend_v that_o this_o consequence_n be_v good_a such_o a_o one_o do_v something_o damnable_a therefore_o he_o shall_v certain_o be_v damn_v which_o whether_o it_o be_v not_o to_o overthrow_v the_o article_n of_o our_o faith_n which_o promise_v remission_n of_o sin_n upon_o repentance_n and_o consequent_o to_o ruin_v the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n i_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o pope_n and_o the_o cardinal_n to_o determine_v for_o if_o against_o this_o it_o be_v allege_v that_o no_o man_n can_v repent_v of_o the_o sin_n wherein_o he_o die_v this_o muce_n i_o have_v already_o stop_v by_o show_v that_o if_o it_o be_v a_o sin_n of_o ignorance_n this_o be_v no_o way_n incongruous_a 13._o ad_fw-la 6._o §_o in_o your_o six_o parag._n i_o let_v all_o pass_v save_v only_o this_o that_o a_o persuasion_n that_o man_n of_o different_a religion_n you_o must_v mean_n christian_n of_o different_a opinion_n or_o communion_n may_v be_v save_v be_v a_o most_o pernicious_a heresy_n and_o even_o a_o ground_n of_o atheism_n what_o strange_a extraction_n chemistry_n can_v make_v i_o know_v not_o but_o sure_o i_o be_o he_o that_o by_o reason_n will_v infer_v this_o conclusion_n that_o there_o be_v no_o god_n from_o this_o ground_n that_o god_n will_v save_v man_n in_o different_a religion_n must_v have_v a_o high_a strain_n of_o logic_n than_o you_o or_o i_o have_v hitherto_o make_v show_v of_o in_o my_o apprehension_n the_o other_o part_n of_o the_o contradiction_n that_o there_o be_v a_o god_n shall_v much_o rather_o follow_v from_o it_o and_o i_o say_v and_o will_v maintain_v that_o to_o say_v that_o christian_n of_o different_a opinion_n and_o communion_n such_o i_o mean_v who_o hold_v all_o those_o thing_n that_o be_v simple_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n may_v not_o obtain_v pardon_n for_o the_o error_n wherein_o they_o die_v ignorant_o by_o a_o general_a repentance_n be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v a_o ground_n of_o atheism_n that_o to_o say_v the_o contrary_a be_v to_o cross_v in_o diameter_n a_o main_a article_n of_o our_o creed_n and_o to_o overthrow_v the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n 14._o ad_fw-la 7._o §_o to_o what_o you_o say_v of_o some_o protestant_n that_o hold_v it_o necessary_a to_o be_v able_a to_o prove_v a_o perpetual_a visible_a church_n distinct_a from_o you_o i_o answer_v some_z perhaps_o undertake_v to_o do_v so_o as_o a_o matter_n of_o courtesy_n but_o i_o believe_v you_o will_v be_v much_o to_o seek_v for_o any_o one_o that_o hold_v it_o necessary_a for_o though_o you_o say_v that_o christ_n have_v promise_v there_o shall_v be_v a_o perpetual_a visible_a church_n yet_o you_o yourselves_o do_v not_o pretend_v that_o he_o have_v promise_v there_o shall_v be_v history_n and_o record_n always_o extant_a of_o the_o professor_n of_o it_o in_o all_o age_n nor_o that_o he_o have_v any_o where_o enjoin_v we_o to_o read_v those_o history_n that_o we_o may_v be_v able_a to_o show_v they_o 17._o to_o your_o ensue_a demand_n though_o some_o of_o they_o be_v very_o captious_a and_o ensnare_a yet_o i_o will_v give_v you_o as_o clear_v and_o plain_a and_o ingenuous_a answer_n as_o possible_o i_o can_v 18._o ad_fw-la 11._o §_o to_o the_o first_o then_o about_o the_o perpetuity_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n my_o answer_n be_v that_o i_o believe_v our_o saviour_n ever_o since_o his_o ascension_n have_v have_v in_o some_o place_n or_o other_o a_o visible_a true_a church_n on_o earth_n i_o mean_v a_o company_n of_o man_n that_o profess_v at_o least_o so_o much_o truth_n as_o be_v absolute_o necessary_a for_o their_o salvation_n and_o i_o believe_v that_o there_o will_v be_v somewhere_o or_o other_o such_o a_o church_n to_o the_o world_n end_n but_o the_o contrary_a doctrine_n i_o do_v at_o no_o hand_n believe_v to_o be_v a_o damnable_a heresy_n 19_o ad_fw-la 12._o §_o to_o the_o second_o what_o visible_a church_n there_o be_v before_o luther_n disagree_v from_o the_o roman_a i_o answer_v that_o before_o luther_n there_o be_v many_o visible_a church_n in_o many_o thing_n disagree_v from_o the_o roman_a but_o not_o that_o the_o whole_a catholic_n church_n disagree_v from_o she_o because_o she_o herself_o be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o whole_a though_o much_o corrupt_v and_o to_o undertake_v to_o name_v a_o catholic_n church_n disagree_v from_o she_o be_v to_o make_v she_o no_o part_n of_o it_o which_o we_o do_v not_o nor_o need_v not_o pretend_v and_o for_o man_n agree_v with_o protestant_n in_o all_o point_n we_o will_v then_o produce_v they_o when_o you_o shall_v either_o prove_v it_o necessary_a to_o be_v do_v which_o you_o know_v we_o absolute_o deny_v or_o when_o you_o shall_v produce_v a_o perpetual_a succession_n of_o professor_n which_o in_o all_o point_n have_v agree_v with_o you_o and_o disagree_v from_o you_o in_o nothing_o but_o this_o my_o promise_n to_o deal_v plain_o with_o you_o i_o conceive_v and_o so_o intend_v it_o to_o be_v very_o like_o he_o who_o undertake_v to_o drink_v up_o the_o sea_n upon_o condition_n that_o he_o to_o who_o the_o promise_n be_v make_v shall_v first_o stop_v the_o river_n from_o run_v in_o for_o this_o unreasonable_a request_n which_o you_o make_v to_o we_o be_v to_o yourselves_o so_o impossible_a that_o in_o the_o very_a next_o age_n after_o the_o apostle_n you_o will_v never_o be_v able_a to_o name_v a_o man_n who_o you_o can_v prove_v to_o have_v agree_v with_o you_o in_o all_o thing_n nay_o if_o you_o speak_v of_o such_o who_o work_n be_v extant_a and_o unquestioned_a who_o we_o can_v prove_v
diligence_n to_o find_v the_o truth_n do_v yet_o miss_v of_o it_o and_o fall_v into_o error_n there_o be_v no_o danger_n in_o it_o they_o that_o err_v and_o they_o that_o do_v not_o err_v may_v both_o be_v save_v so_o that_o those_o place_n which_o contain_v thing_n necessary_a and_o wherein_o error_n be_v dangerous_a need_v no_o infallible_a interpreter_n because_o they_o be_v plain_a and_o those_o that_o be_v obscure_a need_n none_o because_o they_o contain_v not_o thing_n necessary_a neither_o be_v error_n in_o they_o dangerous_a the_o lawmaker_n speak_v in_o the_o law_n i_o grant_v it_o be_v no_o more_o easy_o understand_v than_o the_o law_n itself_o for_o his_o speech_n be_v nothing_o else_o but_o the_o law_n i_o grant_v it_o very_o necessary_a that_o beside_o the_o lawmaker_n speak_v in_o the_o law_n there_o shall_v be_v other_o judge_n to_o determine_v civil_a and_o criminal_a controversy_n and_o to_o give_v every_o man_n that_o justice_n which_o the_o law_n allow_v he_o but_o your_o argument_n draw_v from_o hence_o to_o show_v a_o necessity_n of_o a_o visible_a judge_n in_o controversy_n of_o religion_n i_o say_v be_v sophistical_a and_o that_o for_o many_o reason_n 14._o first_o because_o the_o variety_n of_o civil_a case_n be_v infinite_a and_o therefore_o there_o can_v be_v possible_o law_n enough_o provide_v for_o the_o determination_n of_o they_o and_o therefore_o there_o must_v be_v a_o judge_n to_o supply_v out_o of_o the_o principle_n of_o reason_n the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o law_n where_o it_o be_v defective_a but_o the_o scripture_n we_o say_v be_v a_o perfect_a rule_n of_o faith_n and_o therefore_o need_v no_o supply_n of_o the_o defect_n of_o it_o 15._o second_o to_o execute_v the_o letter_n of_o the_o law_n according_a to_o rigour_n will_v be_v many_o time_n unjust_a and_o therefore_o there_o be_v need_n of_o a_o judge_n to_o moderate_v it_o whereof_o in_o religion_n there_o be_v no_o use_n at_o all_o 16._o three_o in_o civil_a and_o criminal_a cause_n the_o party_n have_v for_o the_o most_o part_n so_o much_o interest_n and_o very_o often_o so_o little_a honesty_n that_o they_o will_v not_o submit_v to_o a_o law_n though_o never_o so_o plain_a if_o it_o be_v against_o they_o or_o will_v not_o see_v it_o to_o be_v against_o they_o though_o it_o be_v so_o never_o so_o plain_o whereas_o if_o man_n be_v honest_a and_o the_o law_n be_v plain_a and_o extend_v to_o all_o case_n there_o will_v be_v little_a need_n of_o judge_n now_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n when_o the_o question_n be_v whether_o every_o man_n be_v a_o fit_a judge_n and_o chooser_n for_o himself_o we_o suppose_v man_n honest_a and_o such_o as_o understand_v the_o difference_n between_o a_o moment_n and_o eternity_n and_o such_o man_n we_o conceive_v will_v think_v it_o high_o concern_v they_o to_o be_v of_o the_o true_a religion_n but_o nothing_o at_o all_o that_o this_o or_o that_o religion_n shall_v be_v the_o true_a and_o then_o we_o suppose_v that_o all_o the_o necessary_a point_n of_o religion_n be_v plain_a and_o easy_a and_o consequent_o every_o man_n in_o this_o cause_n to_o be_v a_o competent_a judge_n for_o himself_o because_o it_o concern_v himself_o to_o judge_v right_a as_o much_o as_o eternal_a happiness_n be_v worth_a and_o if_o through_o his_o own_o default_n he_o judge_v amiss_o he_o alone_o shall_v suffer_v for_o it_o 17._o four_o in_o civil_a controversy_n we_o be_v oblige_v only_o to_o external_a passive_a obedience_n and_o not_o to_o a_o internal_a and_o active_a we_o be_v bind_v to_o obey_v the_o sentence_n of_o the_o judge_n or_o not_o to_o resist_v it_o but_o not_o always_o to_o believe_v it_o just_a but_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n such_o a_o judge_n be_v require_v who_o we_o shall_v be_v oblige_v to_o believe_v to_o have_v judge_v right_o so_o that_o in_o civil_a controversy_n every_o honest_a understand_a man_n be_v fit_a to_o be_v a_o judge_n but_o in_o religion_n none_o but_o he_o that_o be_v infallible_a 18._o five_o in_o civil_a cause_n there_o be_v mean_n and_o power_n when_o the_o judge_n have_v decree_v to_o compel_v man_n to_o obey_v his_o sentence_n otherwise_o i_o believe_v law_n alone_o will_v be_v to_o as_o much_o purpose_n for_o the_o end_n of_o difference_n as_o law_n and_o judge_n both_o but_o all_o the_o power_n in_o the_o world_n be_v neither_o fit_a to_o convince_v nor_o able_a to_o compel_v a_o man_n conscience_n to_o consent_v to_o any_o thing_n worldly_n terror_n may_v prevail_v so_o far_o as_o to_o make_v man_n profess_v a_o religion_n which_o they_o believe_v not_o such_o man_n i_o mean_v who_o know_v not_o that_o there_o be_v a_o heaven_n provide_v for_o martyr_n and_o a_o hell_n for_o those_o that_o dissemble_v such_o truth_n as_o be_v necessary_a to_o be_v profess_v but_o to_o force_v either_o any_o man_n to_o believe_v what_o he_o believe_v not_o or_o any_o honest_a man_n to_o dissemble_v what_o he_o do_v believe_v if_o god_n command_v he_o to_o profess_v it_o or_o to_o profess_v what_o he_o do_v not_o believe_v all_o the_o power_n in_o the_o world_n be_v too_o weak_a with_o all_o the_o power_n of_o hell_n to_o assist_v they_o 19_o six_o in_o civil_a controversy_n the_o case_n can_v be_v so_o put_v but_o there_o may_v be_v a_o judge_n to_o end_v it_o who_o be_v not_o a_o party_n in_o controversy_n of_o religion_n it_o be_v in_o a_o manner_n impossible_a to_o be_v avoid_v but_o the_o judge_n must_v be_v a_o party_n for_o this_o must_v be_v the_o first_o whether_o he_o be_v a_o judge_n or_o no_o and_o in_o that_o he_o must_v be_v a_o party_n sure_o i_o be_o the_o pope_n in_o the_o controversy_n of_o our_o time_n be_v a_o chief_a party_n for_o it_o high_o concern_v he_o even_o as_o much_o as_o his_o popedom_n be_v worth_a not_o to_o yield_v any_o one_o point_n of_o his_o religion_n to_o be_v erroneous_a and_o he_o be_v a_o man_n subject_n to_o like_a passion_n with_o other_o man_n and_o therefore_o we_o may_v just_o decline_v his_o sentence_n for_o fear_v temporal_a respect_n shall_v either_o blind_v his_o judgement_n or_o make_v he_o pronounce_v against_o it_o 20._o seven_o in_o civil_a controversy_n it_o be_v impossible_a titius_n shall_v hold_v the_o land_n in_o question_n and_o sempronius_n too_o and_o therefore_o either_o the_o plaintiff_n must_v injure_v the_o defendant_n by_o disquiet_v his_o possession_n or_o the_o defendant_n wrong_v the_o plaintiff_n by_o keep_v his_o right_n from_o he_o but_o in_o controversy_n of_o religion_n the_o case_n be_v otherwise_o i_o may_v hold_v my_o opinion_n and_o do_v you_o no_o wrong_n and_o you_o you_o and_o do_v i_o none_o nay_o we_o may_v both_o of_o we_o hold_v our_o opinion_n and_o yet_o do_v ourselves_o no_o harm_n provide_v the_o difference_n be_v not_o touch_v any_o thing_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o that_o we_o love_v truth_n so_o well_o as_o to_o be_v diligent_a to_o inform_v our_o conscience_n and_o constant_a in_o follow_v it_o 21._o eight_o for_o the_o end_n of_o civil_a controversy_n who_o do_v not_o see_v it_o be_v absolute_o necessary_a that_o not_o only_a judge_n shall_v be_v appoint_v but_o that_o it_o shall_v be_v know_v and_o unquestioned_a who_o they_o be_v thus_o all_o the_o judge_n of_o our_o land_n be_v know_v man_n know_v to_o be_v judge_n and_o no_o man_n can_v doubt_v or_o question_n but_o these_o be_v the_o men._n otherwise_o if_o it_o be_v a_o disputable_a thing_n who_o be_v these_o judge_n and_o they_o have_v no_o certain_a warrant_n for_o their_o authority_n but_o only_o some_o topical_a congruity_n will_v not_o any_o man_n say_v such_o judge_n in_o all_o likelihood_n will_v rather_o multiply_v controversy_n then_o end_v they_o 22._o nine_o and_o last_o for_o the_o decide_n of_o civil_a controversy_n man_n may_v appoint_v themselves_o a_o judge_n but_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n this_o office_n may_v be_v give_v to_o none_o but_o who_o god_n have_v design_v for_o it_o who_o do_v not_o always_o give_v we_o those_o thing_n which_o we_o conceive_v most_o expedient_a for_o ourselves_o 23._o so_o likewise_o if_o our_o saviour_n the_o king_n of_o heaven_n have_v intend_v that_o all_o controversy_n in_o religion_n shall_v be_v by_o some_o visible_a judge_n final_o determine_v who_o can_v doubt_v but_o in_o plain_a term_n he_o will_v have_v express_v himself_o about_o this_o matter_n he_o will_v have_v say_v plain_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n i_o have_v appoint_v to_o decide_v all_o emergent_a controversy_n for_o that_o our_o saviour_n design_v the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n to_o this_o office_n and_o yet_o will_v not_o say_v so_o nor_o cause_n it_o to_o be_v write_v ad_fw-la rei_fw-la memoriam_fw-la by_o any_o of_o the_o evangelist_n or_o apostle_n so_o much_o as_o once_o but_o leave_v it_o to_o
as_o we_o never_o go_v about_o to_o arrogate_v to_o ourselves_o that_o infallibility_n or_o absolute_a authority_n which_o we_o take_v away_o from_o you_o but_o if_o you_o will_v have_v speak_v to_o the_o purpose_n you_o shall_v have_v say_v that_o in_o follow_v she_o you_o shall_v soon_o have_v be_v excuse_v than_o in_o cleave_v to_o the_o scripture_n and_o to_o god_n himself_o 63._o whereas_o you_o say_v the_o fearful_a example_n of_o innumerable_a person_n who_o forsake_v the_o church_n upon_o pretence_n of_o her_o error_n have_v fail_v even_o in_o fundamental_a point_n aught_o to_o deter_v all_o christian_n from_o oppose_v she_o in_o any_o one_o doctrine_n or_o practice_n this_o be_v just_a as_o if_o you_o shall_v say_v divers_a man_n have_v fall_v into_o scylla_n with_o go_v too_o far_o from_o charybdis_n be_v sure_a therefore_o you_o keep_v close_o to_o charybdis_n divers_a leave_v prodigality_n have_v fall_v into_o covetousness_n therefore_o be_v you_o constant_a to_o prodigality_n many_o have_v fall_v from_o worship_v god_n perverse_o and_o foolish_o not_o to_o worship_v he_o at_o all_o from_o worship_v many_o god_n to_o worship_v none_o this_o therefore_o aught_o to_o deter_v man_n from_o leave_v superstition_n or_o idolatry_n for_o fear_v of_o fall_v into_o atheism_n and_o impiety_n this_o be_v your_o counsel_n and_o sophistry_n but_o god_n say_v clean_a contrary_n take_v heed_n you_o swerve_v not_o either_o to_o the_o right_a hand_n or_o to_o the_o left_a you_o must_v not_o do_v evil_a that_o good_a may_v come_v thereon_o therefore_o neither_o that_o you_o may_v avoid_v a_o great_a evil_n you_o must_v not_o be_v obstinate_a in_o a_o certain_a error_n for_o fear_v of_o a_o uncertain_a what_o if_o some_o forsake_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v forsake_v fundamental_a truth_n be_v this_o because_o they_o forsake_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n no_o sure_a this_o be_v non_fw-la causa_fw-la pro_fw-la causa_fw-la for_o else_o all_o that_o have_v forsake_v that_o church_n shall_v have_v do_v so_o which_o we_o say_v they_o have_v not_o but_o because_o they_o go_v too_o far_o from_o she_o the_o golden_a mean_n the_o narrow_a way_n be_v hard_o to_o be_v find_v and_o hard_o to_o be_v keep_v hard_o but_o not_o impossible_a hard_o but_o yet_o you_o must_v not_o please_v yourself_o out_o of_o it_o though_o you_o err_v on_o the_o right_a hand_n though_o you_o offend_v on_o the_o mild_a part_n for_o this_o be_v the_o only_a way_n that_o lead_v to_o life_n and_o few_o there_o be_v that_o find_v it_o it_o be_v true_a if_o we_o say_v there_o be_v no_o danger_n in_o be_v of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o there_o be_v danger_n in_o leave_v it_o it_o be_v madness_n to_o persuade_v any_o man_n to_o leave_v it_o but_o we_o protest_v and_o proclaim_v the_o contrary_a and_o that_o we_o have_v very_o little_a hope_n of_o their_o salvation_n who_o either_o out_o of_o negligence_n in_o seek_v the_o truth_n or_o unwillingness_n to_o find_v it_o live_v and_o die_v in_o the_o error_n and_o impiety_n of_o that_o church_n and_o therefore_o can_v but_o conceive_v those_o fear_n to_o be_v most_o foolish_a and_o ridiculous_a which_o persuade_v man_n to_o be_v constant_a in_o one_o way_n to_o hell_n lest_o happy_o if_o they_o leave_v it_o they_o shall_v fall_v into_o another_o 64._o obj._n some_o protestant_n pretend_v to_o reform_v the_o church_n be_v come_v to_o affirm_v that_o she_o perish_v for_o many_o age_n which_o other_o can_v deny_v to_o be_v a_o fundamental_a error_n against_o the_o article_n of_o the_o creed_n i_o believe_v the_o catholic_n church_n and_o affirm_v the_o donatist_n err_v fundamental_o in_o confine_v it_o to_o africa_n to_o this_o i_o answer_v first_o that_o the_o error_n of_o the_o donatist_n be_v not_o that_o they_o hold_v it_o possible_a that_o some_o or_o many_o or_o most_o part_n of_o christendom_n may_v fall_v away_o from_o christianity_n and_o that_o the_o church_n may_v loose_v much_o of_o her_o amplitude_n and_o be_v contract_v to_o a_o narrow_a compass_n in_o comparison_n of_o her_o former_a extent_n which_o be_v prove_v not_o only_o possible_a but_o certain_a by_o irrefragable_a experience_n for_o who_o know_v not_o that_o gentilism_n and_o mahumetism_n man_n wickedness_n deserve_v it_o and_o god_n providence_n permit_v it_o have_v prevail_v to_o the_o utter_a extirpation_n of_o christianity_n upon_o far_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o world_n and_o s._n austin_n when_o he_o be_v out_o of_o the_o heat_n of_o disputation_n confess_v the_o militant_a church_n to_o be_v like_o the_o moon_n sometime_o increase_v and_o sometime_o decrease_a this_o therefore_o be_v no_o error_n in_o the_o donatist_n that_o they_o hold_v it_o possible_a that_o the_o church_n from_o a_o large_a extent_n may_v be_v contradict_v to_o a_o lesser_a or_o that_o they_o hold_v it_o possible_a to_o be_v reduce_v to_o africa_n for_o why_o not_o to_o africa_n then_o as_o well_o as_o within_o these_o few_o age_n you_o pretend_v it_o be_v to_o europe_n but_o their_o error_n be_v that_o they_o hold_v the_o facto_fw-la this_o be_v do_v when_o they_o have_v no_o just_a ground_n or_o reason_n to_o do_v so_o and_o so_o upon_o a_o vain_a pretence_n which_o they_o can_v not_o justify_v separate_v themselves_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o all_o other_o part_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o they_o require_v it_o as_o a_o necessary_a condition_n to_o make_v a_o man_n a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n that_o he_o shall_v be_v of_o their_o communion_n and_o divide_v himself_o from_o all_o other_o communion_n from_o which_o they_o be_v divide_v which_o be_v a_o condition_n both_o unnecessary_a and_o unlawful_a to_o be_v require_v and_o therefore_o the_o exact_v of_o it_o be_v direct_o opposite_a to_o the_o church_n catholicism_n in_o the_o very_a same_o nature_n with_o their_o error_n who_o require_v circumcision_n and_o the_o keep_n of_o the_o law_n of_o moses_n as_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n for_o whosoever_o require_v hard_a or_o heavy_a condition_n of_o man_n than_o god_n require_v of_o they_o he_o it_o be_v that_o be_v proper_o a_o enemy_n of_o the_o church_n universality_n by_o hinder_v either_o man_n or_o country_n from_o adjoin_v themselves_o to_o it_o which_o be_v it_o not_o for_o these_o unnecessary_a and_o therefore_o unlawful_a condition_n in_o probability_n will_v have_v make_v they_o member_n of_o it_o and_o see_v the_o present_a church_n of_o rome_n persuade_v man_n they_o be_v as_o good_a for_o any_o hope_n of_o salvation_n they_o have_v not_o to_o be_v christian_n as_o not_o to_o be_v roman_a catholic_n believe_v nothing_o at_o all_o as_o not_o to_o believe_v all_o which_o they_o impose_v upon_o they_o be_v absolute_o out_o of_o the_o church_n communion_n as_o be_v out_o of_o their_o communion_n or_o be_v in_o any_o other_o whether_o they_o be_v not_o guilty_a of_o the_o same_o crime_n with_o the_o donatist_n and_o those_o zelots_n of_o the_o moysaicall_a law_n i_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o judgement_n of_o those_o that_o understand_v reason_n this_o be_v sufficient_a to_o show_v the_o vanity_n of_o this_o argument_n but_o i_o add_v moreover_o that_o you_o neither_o have_v name_v those_o protestant_n who_o hold_v the_o church_n to_o have_v perish_v for_o many_o age_n who_o perhaps_o hold_v not_o the_o destruction_n but_o the_o corruption_n of_o the_o church_n not_o that_o the_o true_a church_n but_o that_o the_o pure_a church_n perish_v or_o rather_o that_o the_o church_n perish_v not_o from_o its_o life_n and_o existence_n but_o from_o its_o purity_n and_o integrity_n or_o perhaps_o from_o its_o splendour_n and_o visibility_n neither_o have_v you_o prove_v by_o any_o one_o reason_n but_o only_o affirm_v it_o to_o be_v a_o fundamental_a error_n to_o hold_v that_o the_o church_n militant_a may_v possible_o be_v drive_v out_o of_o the_o world_n and_o abolish_v for_o a_o time_n from_o the_o face_n of_o the_o earth_n 69._o ad_fw-la §_o 23._o in_o all_o these_o text_n of_o scripture_n which_o be_v here_o allege_v in_o this_o last_o section_n of_o this_o chapter_n or_o in_o any_o one_o of_o they_o or_o in_o any_o other_o do_v god_n say_v clear_o and_o plain_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o that_o society_n of_o christian_n which_o adhere_v to_o he_o shall_v be_v ever_o the_o infallible_a guide_n of_o faith_n you_o will_v confess_v i_o presume_v he_o do_v not_o and_o will_v pretend_v it_o be_v not_o necessary_a yet_o if_o the_o king_n shall_v tell_v we_o the_o lord-keeper_n shall_v judge_v such_o and_o such_o cause_n but_o shall_v either_o not_o tell_v we_o at_o all_o or_o tell_v we_o but_o doubtful_o who_o shall_v be_v lord-keeper_n shall_v we_o be_v any_o thing_n the_o near_a for_o he_o to_o a_o end_n of_o contention_n nay_o rather_o will_v not_o the_o dissension_n about_o the_o person_n who_o it_o
or_o ill_a opinion_n do_v gather_v otherwise_o than_o they_o ought_v for_o to_o this_o church_n for_o a_o more_o powerful_a principality_n it_o be_v necessary_a that_o all_o church_n resort_n that_o be_v all_o faithful_a people_n undique_fw-la of_o what_o place_n soever_o in_o which_o roman_a church_n the_o tradition_n from_o the_o apostle_n have_v always_o be_v conserve_v from_o those_o who_o be_v undique_fw-la every_o where_n answ_n though_o at_o the_o first_o hear_v the_o glorious_a attribute_n here_o give_v and_o that_o just_o to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n the_o confound_a heretic_n with_o her_o tradition_n and_o say_v it_o be_v necessary_a for_o all_o church_n to_o resort_v to_o she_o may_v sound_v like_o argument_n for_o you_o yet_o he_o that_o be_v attentive_a i_o hope_v will_v easy_o discover_v that_o it_o may_v be_v good_a and_o rational_a in_o irenaeus_n have_v to_o do_v with_o heretic_n who_o somewhat_o like_o those_o who_o will_v be_v the_o only_a catholic_n decline_v a_o trial_n by_o scripture_n as_o not_o contain_v the_o truth_n of_o christ_n perfect_o and_o not_o fit_a to_o decide_v controversy_n without_o recourse_n to_o tradition_n i_o say_v he_o will_v easy_o perceive_v that_o it_o may_v be_v rational_a in_o irenaeus_n to_o urge_v they_o with_o any_o tradition_n of_o more_o credit_n than_o their_o own_o especial_o a_o tradition_n consonant_a to_o scripture_n and_o even_o contain_v in_o it_o and_o yet_o that_o it_o may_v be_v irrational_a in_o you_o to_o urge_v we_o who_o do_v not_o decline_v scripture_n but_o appeal_n to_o it_o as_o a_o perfect_a rule_n of_o faith_n with_o a_o tradition_n which_o we_o pretend_v be_v many_o way_n repugnant_a to_o scripture_n and_o repugnant_a to_o a_o tradition_n far_o more_o general_a than_o itself_o which_o give_v testimony_n to_o scripture_n and_o last_o repugnant_a to_o itself_o as_o give_v attestation_n both_o to_o scripture_n and_o to_o doctrine_n plain_o contrary_a to_o scripture_n second_o that_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v then_o a_o far_o great_a argument_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o her_o tradition_n when_o it_o be_v unite_v with_o all_o other_o apostolic_a church_n than_o now_o when_o it_o be_v divide_v from_o they_o according_a to_o that_o of_o tertullian_n have_v the_o church_n err_v they_o will_v have_v vary_v but_o that_o which_o be_v the_o same_o in_o all_o can_v be_v error_n but_o tradition_n and_o therefore_o though_o irenaeus_n his_o argument_n may_v be_v very_o probable_a yet_o you_o may_v be_v worth_a nothing_o three_o that_o fourteen_o hundred_o year_n may_v have_v make_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o alteration_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n as_o river_n though_o near_o the_o fountain_n they_o may_v retain_v their_o native_a and_o unmixed_a sincerity_n yet_o in_o long_a progress_n can_v but_o take_v in_o much_o mixture_n that_o come_v not_o from_o the_o fountain_n and_o therefore_o the_o roman_a tradition_n though_o then_o pure_a may_v now_o be_v 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therefore_o to_o secure_v she_o that_o she_o shall_v stand_v for_o ever_o he_o have_v no_o reason_n nor_o authority_n four_o that_o it_o appear_v manifest_o out_o of_o this_o book_n of_o irenaeus_n quote_v by_o you_o that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o chiliast_n be_v in_o his_o judgement_n apostolic_a tradition_n as_o also_o it_o be_v esteem_v for_o aught_o appear_v to_o the_o contrary_a by_o all_o the_o doctor_n and_o saint_n and_o martyr_n of_o or_o about_o his_o time_n for_o all_o that_o speak_v of_o it_o or_o who_o judgement_n in_o the_o point_n be_v any_o way_n record_v be_v for_o it_o and_o justin_n martyr_n profess_v that_o all_o good_a and_o orthodox_n christian_n of_o his_o time_n believe_v it_o and_o those_o that_o do_v not_o he_o reckon_v among_o heretic_n now_o i_o demand_v be_v this_o tradition_n one_o of_o those_o that_o be_v conserve_v and_o observe_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n or_o be_v it_o not_o if_o not_o have_v iraeneus_n know_v so_o much_o he_o must_v have_v retract_v this_o commendation_n of_o that_o church_n if_o it_o be_v than_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o present_a church_n of_o rome_n contradict_v the_o ancient_n and_o account_v it_o heretical_a and_o then_o sure_o it_o can_v be_v no_o certain_a note_n of_o heresy_n to_o depart_v from_o they_o who_o have_v depart_v from_o themselves_o and_o prove_v themselves_o subject_a unto_o error_n by_o hold_v contradiction_n five_o and_o last_o that_o out_o of_o the_o story_n of_o the_o church_n it_o be_v as_o manifest_a as_o the_o light_n at_o noon_n that_o though_o iraeneus_n do_v esteem_v the_o roman_a tradition_n a_o great_a argument_n of_o the_o doctrine_n which_o he_o there_o deliver_v and_o defend_v against_o the_o heretic_n of_o his_o time_n viz._n that_o there_o be_v one_o god_n yet_o he_o be_v very_o far_o from_o think_v that_o church_n be_v and_o ever_o shall_v be_v a_o safe_a keeper_n and_o a_o infallible_a witness_n of_o tradition_n in_o general_a inasmuch_o as_o in_o his_o own_o life_n his_o action_n proclaim_v the_o contrary_n for_o when_o victor_n bishop_n of_o rome_n obtrude_v the_o roman_a tradition_n touch_v the_o time_n of_o easter_n upon_o the_o asian_a bishop_n under_o the_o pain_n of_o excommunication_n and_o damnation_n iraeneus_n and_o all_o the_o other_o western_a bishop_n though_o agree_v with_o he_o in_o his_o observation_n yet_o sharp_o reprehend_v he_o for_o excommunicate_v the_o asian_a bishop_n for_o their_o disagree_v plain_o show_v that_o they_o esteem_v that_o not_o a_o necessary_a doctrine_n and_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n of_o excommunication_n which_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o his_o adherent_n do_v so_o account_v of_o for_o otherwise_o how_o can_v they_o have_v reprehend_v he_o for_o excommunicate_v they_o have_v they_o conceive_v the_o cause_n of_o his_o excommunication_n just_a and_o sufficient_a and_o beside_o evident_o declare_v that_o they_o esteem_v not_o separation_n from_o the_o roman_a church_n a_o certain_a mark_n of_o heresy_n see_v they_o esteem_v not_o they_o heretic_n though_o separate_v and_o cut_v off_o from_o the_o roman_a church_n 31._o obj._n s._n austin_n say_v in_o psalm_n count_v partem_fw-la donati_n it_o grieve_v we_o to_o see_v you_o so_o to_o lie_v cut_v off_o number_v the_o priest_n even_o from_o the_o sea_n of_o peter_n and_o consider_v in_o that_o order_n of_o father_n who_o succeed_v to_o who_o she_o be_v the_o rock_n which_o the_o proud_a gate_n of_o hell_n do_v not_o overcome_v where_o he_o seem_v to_o say_v that_o the_o succession_n in_o the_o sea_n of_o peter_n be_v the_o rock_n which_o our_o saviour_n mean_v when_o he_o say_v upon_o this_o rock_n will_v i_o build_v my_o church_n ans_fw-fr i_o answer_v first_o we_o have_v no_o reason_n to_o be_v confident_a of_o the_o truth_n hereof_o because_o s._n austin_n himself_o be_v not_o but_o retract_v it_o as_o uncertain_a and_o leaf_n to_o the_o reader_n whether_o he_o will_v think_v that_o or_o another_o more_o probable_a retr_n 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fail_v no_o not_o the_o most_o ignoble_a creature_n of_o the_o world_n and_o that_o for_o ourselves_o no_o measure_n of_o heap_v but_o the_o most_o we_o can_v get_v no_o rule_n of_o expense_n but_o to_o the_o utmost_a pomp_n we_o lift_v or_o that_o god_n himself_o have_v so_o enrich_v the_o low_a part_n of_o the_o world_n with_o such_o wonderful_a variety_n of_o beauty_n and_o glory_n thut_v they_o may_v serve_v only_o to_o the_o pamper_n of_o mortal_a man_n in_o his_o pride_n and_o that_o in_o the_o service_n of_o the_o high_a creator_n lord_n and_o giver_n the_o outward_a glory_n of_o who_o high_a palace_n may_v appear_v by_o the_o very_a lamp_n that_o we_o see_v so_o far_o off_o burn_v glorious_o in_o it_o only_o the_o simple_a base_a cheaper_o less_o noble_a less_o beautiful_a less_o glorious_a thing_n shall_v be_v employ_v especial_o see_v as_o in_o prince_n court_n so_o in_o the_o service_n
you_o know_v all_o protestant_n with_o one_o consent_n affirm_v it_o to_o be_v false_a and_o therefore_o without_o proof_n to_o take_v it_o for_o grant_v be_v to_o beg_v the_o question_n 4._o that_o suppose_v luther_n and_o they_o which_o do_v first_o separate_v from_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v guilty_a of_o schism_n it_o be_v certain_o consequent_a that_o all_o who_o persist_v in_o this_o division_n must_v be_v so_o likewise_o which_o be_v not_o so_o certain_a as_o you_o pretend_v for_o they_o which_o alter_v without_o necessary_a cause_n the_o present_a government_n of_o any_o state_n civil_a or_o ecclesiastical_a do_v commit_v a_o great_a fault_n whereof_o notwithstanding_o they_o may_v be_v innocent_a who_o continue_v this_o alteration_n and_o to_o the_o utmost_a of_o their_o power_n oppose_v a_o change_n though_o to_o the_o former_a state_n when_o continuance_n of_o time_n have_v once_o settle_v the_o present_a thus_o have_v i_o know_v some_o of_o your_o own_o church_n condemn_v 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but_o only_o the_o profession_n of_o it_o to_o make_v man_n member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n 8._o that_o every_o heretic_n be_v a_o schismatic_a which_o you_o must_v acknowledge_v false_a in_o those_o who_o though_o they_o deny_v or_o doubt_v of_o some_o point_n profess_v by_o your_o church_n and_o so_o be_v heretic_n yet_o continue_v still_o in_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n 9_o that_o all_o the_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n must_v of_o necessity_n be_v unite_v in_o external_a communion_n which_o though_o it_o be_v much_o to_o be_v desire_v it_o be_v so_o yet_o certain_o can_v be_v perpetual_o true_a for_o a_o man_n unjust_o excommunicate_v be_v not_o in_o the_o church_n communion_n yet_o he_o be_v still_o a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n and_o divers_a time_n it_o have_v happen_v as_o in_o the_o case_n of_o chrisostom_n and_o epiphanius_n that_o particular_a man_n and_o particular_a church_n have_v upon_o a_o overvalue_v difference_n either_o renounce_v 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particular_a case_n thus_o the_o word_n of_o s._n austin_n cap._n 11._o lib._n 2._o cont_n parm._n that_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n to_o divide_v unity_n be_v not_o speak_v absolute_o that_o there_o never_o be_v nor_o can_v be_v any_o necessity_n to_o divide_v unity_n which_o only_o be_v for_o your_o purpose_n but_o only_o in_o such_o a_o special_a case_n as_o he_o there_o set_v down_o that_o be_v when_o good_a man_n tolerate_v bad_a man_n which_o can_v do_v they_o no_o spiritual_a hurt_n to_o the_o intent_n they_o may_v not_o be_v separate_v from_o those_o who_o be_v spiritual_o good_a then_o say_v he_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n to_o divide_v unity_n which_o very_a word_n do_v clear_o give_v we_o to_o understand_v that_o it_o may_v fall_v out_o as_o it_o do_v in_o our_o case_n that_o we_o can_v keep_v unity_n with_o bad_a man_n without_o spiritual_a hurt_n i._n e._n without_o partake_v with_o they_o in_o their_o impiety_n and_o that_o then_o there_o be_v a_o necessity_n to_o 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we_o a_o unavoidable_a necessity_n of_o divide_v unity_n either_o with_o you_o or_o with_o god_n and_o whether_o of_o these_o be_v rather_o to_o be_v do_v be_v you_o judge_n 11._o iraeneus_n also_o say_v not_o simple_o which_o only_o will_v do_v you_o service_n there_o can_v possible_o be_v any_o so_o important_a reformation_n as_o to_o justify_v a_o separation_n from_o they_o who_o will_v not_o reform_v but_o only_o they_o can_v make_v any_o corruption_n so_o great_a as_o be_v the_o pernitiousness_n of_o a_o schism_n now_o they_o here_o be_v a_o relative_a and_o have_v a_o antecedent_n express_v in_o iraeneus_n which_o if_o you_o have_v be_v please_v to_o take_v notice_n of_o you_o will_v easy_o have_v see_v that_o what_o irenaeus_n say_v fall_v heavy_a upon_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n but_o touch_v protestant_n nothing_o at_o all_o for_o the_o man_n he_o speak_v of_o be_v such_o as_o propter_fw-la modicas_fw-la &_o quaslibet_fw-la causas_fw-la for_o trifle_v or_o small_a cause_n divide_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n such_o as_o speak_v of_o peace_n and_o make_v war_n such_o as_o strain_v at_o gnat_n and_o swallow_v camel_n and_o these_o say_v he_o can_v make_v no_o reformation_n of_o any_o such_o importance_n as_o to_o countervail_v the_o danger_n of_o a_o division_n now_o see_v the_o cause_n of_o our_o separation_n from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v as_o we_o pretend_v and_o be_v ready_a to_o justify_v because_o we_o will_v not_o be_v partaker_n with_o she_o in_o superstition_n idolatry_n impiety_n and_o most_o cruel_a tyranny_n both_o upon_o the_o body_n and_o soul_n of_o man_n who_o can_v say_v that_o the_o cause_n of_o our_o separation_n may_v be_v just_o esteem_v modicae_fw-la &_o quaelibet_fw-la causae_fw-la on_o the_o other_o side_n see_v the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n who_o be_v contemporary_a to_o irenaeus_n do_v as_o much_o as_o in_o he_o lay_v cut_v off_o from_o the_o church_n unity_n many_o great_a church_n for_o not_o conform_v to_o he_o in_o a_o indifferent_a matter_n upon_o a_o difference_n non_fw-fr de_fw-fr catholico_n dogmate_n sed_fw-la de_fw-la ritu_fw-la vel_fw-la ritus_fw-la potiùs_fw-la tempore_fw-la not_o about_o any_o catholic_n doctrine_n but_o only_o a_o ceremony_n or_o rather_o about_o the_o time_n of_o observe_v it_o so_o petavius_n value_v it_o which_o be_v just_o all_o one_o as_o if_o the_o church_n of_o france_n shall_v excommunicate_v those_o of_o their_o own_o religion_n in_o england_n for_o not_o keep_v christmas_n upon_o the_o same_o day_n with_o they_o and_o see_v he_o be_v reprehend_v sharp_o and_o bitter_o for_o it_o by_o most_o of_o the_o bishop_n of_o the_o world_n as_o 2._o as_o euseb_n hist_o l._n 5._o c._n 24._o perron_n replic_n l._n 3._o c._n 2._o eusebius_n testify_v and_o as_o cardinal_n perron_n though_o mince_v the_o matter_n yet_o confess_v by_o this_o very_a irenaeus_n himself_o
out_o from_o some_o body_n afford_v a_o argument_n for_o this_o purpose_n for_o the_o first_o place_n there_o be_v no_o certainty_n that_o it_o speak_v of_o heretic_n but_o no_o christian_n of_o antichrist_n of_o such_o as_o deny_v jesus_n to_o be_v the_o christ_n see_v the_o place_n and_o you_o shall_v confess_v as_o much_o the_o second_o place_n it_o be_v certain_a you_o must_v not_o say_v it_o speak_v of_o heretic_n for_o it_o speak_v only_o of_o some_o who_o believe_v and_o teach_v a_o error_n while_o it_o be_v yet_o a_o question_n and_o not_o evident_a and_o therefore_o according_a to_o your_o doctrine_n no_o formal_a heresy_n the_o three_o say_v indeed_o that_o of_o the_o professor_n of_o christianity_n some_o shall_v arise_v that_o shall_v teach_v heresy_n but_o not_o one_o of_o they_o all_o that_o say_v or_o intimate_v that_o whosoever_o separate_v from_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o what_o state_n soever_o be_v certain_o a_o heretic_n heretic_n i_o confess_v do_v always_o do_v so_o but_o they_o that_o do_v so_o be_v not_o always_o heretic_n for_o perhaps_o the_o state_n of_o the_o church_n may_v make_v it_o necessary_a for_o they_o to_o do_v so_o as_o rebel_n always_o disobey_v the_o command_n of_o their_o king_n yet_o they_o which_o disobey_v a_o king_n command_n which_o perhaps_o may_v be_v unjust_a be_v not_o present_o rebel_n 22._o in_o the_o 19_o §_o we_o have_v the_o authority_n of_o eight_o father_n urge_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o separation_n from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n as_o it_o be_v the_o sea_n of_o s._n peter_n i_o conceive_v you_o mean_v as_o it_o be_v the_o particular_a church_n be_v the_o mark_n of_o heresy_n which_o kind_n of_o argument_n i_o may_v well_o refuse_v to_o answer_v unless_o you_o will_v first_o promise_v i_o that_o whensoever_o i_o shall_v produce_v as_o plain_a sentence_n of_o as_o great_a a_o number_n of_o father_n as_o ancient_a for_o any_o doctrine_n whatsoever_o that_o you_o will_v subscribe_v to_o it_o though_o it_o fall_v out_o to_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n for_o i_o conceive_v nothing_o in_o the_o world_n more_o unequal_a or_o unreasonable_a than_o that_o you_o shall_v press_v we_o with_o such_o authority_n as_o these_o and_o think_v yourselves_o at_o liberty_n from_o they_o and_o that_o you_o shall_v account_v they_o father_n when_o they_o be_v for_o you_o and_o child_n when_o they_o be_v against_o you_o yet_o i_o will_v not_o you_o shall_v interpret_v this_o as_o if_o i_o have_v not_o great_a assurance_n that_o it_o be_v not_o possible_a for_o you_o ever_o to_o gain_v this_o cause_n at_o the_o tribunal_n of_o the_o father_n nay_o not_o of_o the_o father_n who_o sentence_n be_v here_o allege_v let_v we_o consider_v they_o in_o order_n and_o i_o doubt_v not_o to_o make_v it_o appear_v that_o far_o the_o great_a part_n of_o they_o nay_o all_o of_o they_o that_o be_v nay_o way_n considerable_a fall_n short_a of_o your_o purpose_n 23._o obj._n s._n hierome_n you_o say_v ep._n 57_o ad_fw-la damasum_fw-la profess_v i_o be_o in_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o chair_n of_o peter_n etc._n etc._n but_o then_o i_o pray_v consider_v he_o say_v it_o to_o pope_n damasus_n and_o this_o will_v much_o weaken_v the_o authority_n with_o they_o who_o know_v how_o great_a over-truth_n man_n usual_o write_v to_o one_o another_o in_o letter_n consider_v again_o that_o he_o say_v only_o that_o he_o be_v then_o in_o communion_n with_o the_o chair_n of_o peter_n not_o that_o he_o always_o will_v or_o of_o necessity_n must_v be_v so_o for_o his_o resolution_n to_o the_o contrary_n be_v too_o evident_a out_o of_o that_o which_o he_o say_v elsewhere_o which_o shall_v be_v produce_v hereafter_o he_o say_v that_o the_o church_n at_o that_o present_a be_v build_v upon_o that_o rock_n but_o not_o that_o only_a nor_o that_o always_o nay_o his_o judgement_n as_o shall_v appear_v be_v express_v to_o the_o contrary_n and_o so_o likewise_o the_o rest_n of_o his_o 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unnecessary_a disturbance_n of_o order_n to_o persuade_v man_n out_o of_o a_o false_a unto_o a_o true_a way_n of_o eternal_a happiness_n especial_o the_o apostle_n have_v assure_v we_o that_o he_o whosoever_o he_o be_v who_o convert_v a_o sinner_n from_o the_o error_n of_o his_o way_n shall_v save_v a_o soul_n from_o death_n and_o shall_v hide_v a_o multitude_n of_o sin_n whether_o the_o first_o reform_v bishop_n die_v all_o at_o once_o so_o that_o there_o be_v not_o enough_o to_o ordain_v other_o in_o the_o place_n that_o be_v vacant_a whether_o the_o bishop_n of_o england_n may_v not_o consecrate_v a_o metropolitan_a of_o england_n as_o well_o as_o the_o cardinal_n do_v the_o pope_n whether_o the_o king_n or_o queen_n of_o england_n or_o they_o that_o have_v the_o government_n in_o their_o hand_n in_o the_o minority_n of_o the_o prince_n may_v not_o lawful_o commend_v one_o to_o they_o to_o be_v consecrate_v against_o who_o there_o be_v no_o canonical_a exception_n whether_o the_o doctrine_n that_o the_o king_n be_v supreme_a head_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o the_o king_n of_o judah_n and_o the_o first_o christian_n emperor_n be_v of_o the_o jewish_a and_o christian_a church_n be_v any_o new_a find_v doctrine_n whether_o it_o be_v not_o true_a that_o bishop_n be_v make_v bishop_n have_v their_o authority_n immediate_o from_o christ_n though_o this_o or_o that_o man_n be_v not_o make_v bishop_n without_o the_o king_n authority_n as_o well_o as_o you_o say_v the_o pope_n be_v pope_n have_v authority_n immediate_o from_o christ_n and_o yet_o this_o or_o that_o man_n can_v be_v make_v pope_n without_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o cardinal_n whether_o you_o do_v well_o to_o suppose_v that_o christian_a king_n have_v no_o more_o authority_n in_o order_v the_o affair_n of_o the_o church_n than_o the_o great_a turk_n or_o the_o pagan_a emperor_n whether_o the_o king_n may_v not_o give_v authority_n to_o a_o bishop_n to_o exercise_v his_o function_n in_o 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who_o the_o pope_n be_v so_o subject_a unto_o that_o they_o may_v dispense_v with_o he_o whether_o that_o be_v certain_a which_o you_o take_v for_o grant_v that_o your_o ordination_n imprint_n a_o character_n and_o we_o do_v not_o whether_o the_o power_n of_o consecrate_v and_o ordain_v by_o imposition_n of_o hand_n may_v not_o reside_v in_o the_o bishop_n and_o be_v derive_v unto_o they_o not_o from_o the_o king_n but_o god_n and_o yet_o the_o king_n have_v authority_n to_o command_v they_o to_o apply_v this_o power_n to_o such_o a_o fit_a person_n who_o he_o shall_v commend_v unto_o they_o as_o well_o as_o if_o some_o architect_n only_o have_v the_o faculty_n of_o architecture_n and_o have_v it_o immediate_o by_o infusion_n from_o god_n himself_o yet_o if_o they_o be_v the_o king_n subject_n he_o want_v not_o authority_n to_o command_v they_o to_o build_v he_o a_o palace_n for_o his_o use_n or_o a_o fortress_n for_o his_o service_n or_o as_o the_o king_n of_o france_n pretend_v not_o to_o have_v power_n to_o make_v priest_n himself_o yet_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o deny_v he_o power_n to_o command_v any_o of_o his_o subject_n that_o have_v this_o power_n to_o ordain_v any_o fit_a person_n priest_n who_o he_o shall_v desire_v to_o be_v ordain_v whether_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o whensoever_o the_o king_n command_v a_o house_n to_o be_v build_v a_o message_n to_o be_v deliver_v or_o a_o murderer_n to_o be_v execute_v that_o all_o these_o thing_n be_v present_o do_v without_o intervention_n of_o the_o architect_n messenger_n or_o executioner_n as_o well_o as_o that_o they_o be_v ipso_fw-la facto_fw-la ordain_v and_o consecrate_a who_o by_o the_o king_n authority_n be_v commend_v to_o the_o bishop_n to_o be_v ordain_v and_o consecrate_a especial_o see_v the_o king_n
what_o wisdom_n be_v it_o to_o forsake_v a_o church_n acknowledge_v to_o want_v nothing_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n endue_v with_o succession_n of_o bishop_n etc._n etc._n usque_fw-la ad_fw-la election_n or_o choice_n i_o answer_v yet_o may_v it_o be_v great_a wisdom_n to_o forsake_v a_o church_n not_o acknowledge_v to_o want_v nothing_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n but_o accuse_v and_o convict_v of_o many_o damnable_a error_n certain_o damnable_a to_o they_o who_o be_v convict_v of_o they_o have_v they_o still_o persist_v in_o they_o after_o their_o conviction_n though_o perhaps_o pardonable_a which_o be_v all_o that_o be_v acknowledge_v to_o such_o as_o ignorant_o continue_v in_o they_o a_o church_n vain_o arrogate_a without_o possibility_n of_o proof_n a_o perpetual_a succession_n of_o bishop_n hold_v always_o the_o same_o doctrine_n and_o with_o a_o ridiculous_a impudence_n pretend_v perpetual_a possession_n of_o all_o the_o world_n whereas_o the_o world_n know_v that_o a_o little_a before_o luther_n arise_v your_o church_n be_v confine_v to_o a_o part_n of_o a_o part_n of_o it_o last_o a_o church_n vain_o glory_v in_o the_o dependence_n of_o other_o church_n upon_o she_o which_o yet_o she_o support_v no_o more_o than_o those_o crouch_a antic_n which_o seem_v in_o great_a building_n to_o labour_n under_o the_o weight_n they_o bear_v do_v indeed_o support_v the_o fabric_n for_o a_o corrupt_a and_o false_a church_n may_v give_v authority_n to_o preach_v the_o truth_n and_o consequent_o against_o her_o own_o falsehood_n and_o corruption_n beside_o a_o false_a church_n may_v preserve_v the_o scripture_n true_a as_o now_o the_o old_a testament_n be_v preserve_v by_o the_o jew_n either_o not_o be_v arrive_v to_o that_o height_n of_o impiety_n as_o to_o attempt_v the_o corruption_n of_o it_o or_o not_o able_a to_o effect_v it_o or_o not_o perceive_v or_o not_o regard_v the_o opposition_n of_o it_o to_o her_o corruption_n and_o so_o we_o may_v receive_v from_o you_o lawful_a ordination_n and_o true_a scripture_n though_o you_o be_v a_o false_a church_n and_o receive_v the_o scripture_n from_o you_o though_o not_o from_o you_o alone_o i_o hope_v you_o can_v hinder_v we_o neither_o need_v we_o ask_v your_o leave_n to_o believe_v and_o obey_v they_o and_o this_o though_o you_o be_v a_o false_a church_n and_o receive_v the_o scripture_n from_o you_o though_o not_o from_o you_o alone_o i_o hope_v you_o can_v hinder_v we_o neither_o need_v we_o ask_v your_o leave_n to_o believe_v and_o obey_v they_o and_o this_o though_o you_o be_v a_o false_a church_n be_v enough_o to_o make_v we_o a_o true_a one_o as_o for_o a_o succession_n of_o man_n that_o hold_v with_o we_o in_o all_o point_n of_o doctrine_n it_o be_v a_o thing_n we_o need_v not_o and_o you_o have_v as_o little_a as_o we_o so_o that_o if_o we_o acknowledge_v that_o your_o church_n before_o luther_n be_v a_o true_a church_n it_o be_v not_o for_o any_o end_n for_o any_o dependence_n that_o we_o have_v upon_o you_o but_o because_o we_o conceive_v that_o in_o a_o charitable_a construction_n you_o may_v pass_v for_o a_o true_a church_n such_o a_o church_n and_o no_o better_a as_o you_o do_v sometime_o acknowledge_v protestant_n to_o be_v that_o be_v a_o company_n of_o man_n wherein_o some_o ignorant_a soul_n may_v be_v save_v so_o that_o in_o this_o balance_a of_o religion_n against_o religion_n and_o church_n against_o church_n it_o seem_v you_o have_v nothing_o of_o weight_n and_o moment_n to_o put_v into_o your_o scale_n nothing_o but_o smoke_n and_o wind_n vain_a shadow_n and_o fantastical_a pretence_n yet_o if_o protestant_n on_o the_o other_o side_n have_v nothing_o to_o put_v in_o their_o seal_n but_o those_o negative_a commendation_n which_o you_o be_v please_v to_o afford_v they_o nothing_o but_o no_o unity_n nor_o mean_n to_o procure_v it_o no_o far_o extent_n when_o luther_n arise_v than_o luther_n body_n no_o universality_n of_o time_n or_o place_n no_o visibility_n or_o be_v except_o only_o in_o your_o church_n no_o succession_n of_o person_n or_o doctrine_n no_o leader_n but_o luther_n in_o a_o quarrel_n begin_v upon_o no_o ground_n but_o passion_n no_o church_n no_o ordination_n no_o scripture_n but_o such_o as_o they_o receive_v from_o you_o if_o all_o this_o be_v true_a and_o this_o be_v all_o that_o can_v be_v plead_v for_o protestant_n possible_o with_o a_o allowance_n of_o three_o grain_n of_o partiality_n your_o scale_n may_v seem_v to_o turn_v but_o then_o if_o it_o may_v appear_v that_o part_n of_o these_o objection_n be_v false_o make_v against_o they_o the_o rest_n vain_o that_o whatsoever_o of_o truth_n be_v in_o these_o imputation_n be_v impertinent_a to_o this_o trial_n and_o whatsoever_o be_v pertinent_a be_v untrue_a and_o beside_o that_o plenty_n of_o good_a matter_n may_v be_v allege_v for_o protestant_n which_o be_v here_o dissemble_a then_o i_o hope_v our_o cause_n may_v be_v good_a notwithstanding_o these_o pretence_n 55._o i_o say_v then_o that_o want_v of_o universality_n of_o time_n and_o place_n the_o invisibility_n or_o not_o existence_n of_o the_o professor_n of_o protestant_a doctrine_n before_o luther_n luther_n being_n alone_o when_o he_o first_o oppose_v your_o church_n our_o have_v our_o church_n ordination_n scripture_n personal_a and_o yet_o not_o doctrinal_a succession_n from_o you_o be_v vain_a and_o impertinent_a allegation_n against_o the_o truth_n of_o our_o doctrine_n and_o church_n that_o the_o entire_a truth_n of_o christ_n without_o any_o mixture_n of_o error_n shall_v be_v profess_v or_o believe_v in_o all_o place_n at_o any_o time_n or_o in_o any_o place_n at_o all_o time_n be_v not_o a_o thing_n evident_a in_o reason_n neither_o have_v we_o any_o revelation_n for_o it_o and_o therefore_o in_o rely_v so_o confident_o on_o it_o you_o build_v your_o house_n upon_o the_o sand._n and_o what_o obligation_n we_o have_v either_o to_o be_v so_o peevish_a as_o to_o take_v nothing_o of_o you_o or_o so_o foolish_a as_o to_o take_v all_o i_o do_v not_o understand_v for_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o this_o be_v to_o be_v chooser_n and_o therefore_o heretic_n i_o tell_v you_o that_o though_o all_o heretic_n be_v chooser_n yet_o all_o chooser_n be_v not_o heretic_n otherwise_o they_o also_o which_o choose_v your_o religion_n must_v be_v heretic_n as_o for_o our_o want_a unity_n and_o mean_n of_o prove_v it_o luther_n oppose_a your_o church_n upon_o mere_a passion_n our_o follow_v private_a man_n rather_o than_o the_o catholic_n church_n the_o first_o and_o last_o be_v mere_a untruth_n for_o we_o want_v not_o unity_n nor_o mean_n to_o procure_v it_o in_o thing_n necessary_a plain_a place_n of_o scripture_n and_o such_o as_o need_v no_o interpreter_n be_v our_o mean_n to_o obtain_v it_o neither_o do_v we_o follow_v any_o private_a man_n but_o only_o the_o scripture_n the_o word_n of_o god_n as_o our_o rule_n and_o reason_n which_o be_v also_o the_o gift_n of_o god_n give_v to_o direct_v we_o in_o all_o our_o action_n in_o the_o use_n of_o this_o rule_n and_o then_o for_o luther_n oppose_a your_o church_n upon_o mere_a passion_n it_o be_v a_o thing_n i_o will_v not_o deny_v because_o i_o know_v not_o his_o heart_n and_o for_o the_o same_o reason_n you_o shall_v not_o have_v affirm_v it_o sure_o i_o be_o whether_o he_o oppose_v your_o church_n upon_o reason_n or_o no_o he_o have_v reason_n enough_o to_o oppose_v it_o and_o therefore_o if_o he_o do_v it_o upon_o passion_n we_o will_v follow_v he_o only_o in_o his_o action_n and_o not_o in_o his_o passion_n in_o his_o opposition_n not_o in_o the_o manner_n of_o it_o and_o then_o i_o presume_v you_o will_v have_v no_o reason_n to_o condemn_v we_o unless_o you_o will_v say_v that_o a_o good_a action_n can_v be_v do_v with_o reason_n because_o some_o body_n before_o we_o have_v do_v it_o upon_o passion_n you_o see_v then_o how_o imprudent_a you_o have_v be_v in_o the_o choice_n of_o your_o argument_n to_o prove_v protestant_n unwise_a in_o the_o choice_n of_o their_o religion_n 56._o it_o remain_v now_o that_o i_o shall_v show_v that_o many_o reason_n of_o moment_n may_v be_v allege_v for_o the_o justification_n of_o protestant_n which_o be_v dissemble_v by_o you_o and_o not_o put_v into_o the_o balance_n know_v then_o sir_n that_o when_o i_o say_v the_o religion_n of_o protestant_n be_v in_o prudence_n to_o be_v prefer_v before_o you_o as_o on_o the_o one_o side_n i_o do_v not_o understand_v by_o your_o religion_n the_o doctrine_n of_o bellarmine_n or_o baronius_n or_o any_o other_o private_a man_n among_o you_o nor_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o sorbon_n or_o of_o the_o jesuit_n or_o of_o the_o dominicans_n or_o of_o any_o other_o particular_a company_n among_o you_o but_o that_o wherein_o you_o all_o agree_v or_o profess_v to_o agree_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o
yet_o our_o own_o brethren_n the_o century_n writer_n acknowledge_v that_o in_o the_o time_n of_o cyprian_a and_o tertullian_n private_a confession_n even_o of_o thought_n be_v use_v and_o that_o it_o be_v then_o command_v and_o think_v necessary_a and_o then_o our_o ordination_n you_o say_v be_v very_o doubtful_a and_o all_o that_o depend_v upon_o it_o answer_v i_o also_o omit_v to_o answer_v 1._o that_o your_o brother_n rhenanus_fw-la acknowledge_v the_o contrary_a and_o assure_v we_o that_o the_o confession_n then_o require_v and_o in_o use_n be_v public_a and_o before_o the_o church_n and_o that_o your_o auricular_a confession_n be_v not_o then_o in_o the_o world_n for_o which_o his_o mouth_n be_v stop_v by_o your_o index_n expurgatorius_fw-la 2._o that_o your_o brother_n arcudius_n acknowledge_v that_o the_o eucharist_n be_v in_o cyprian_n time_n give_v to_o infant_n and_o esteem_v necessary_a or_o at_o least_o profitable_a for_o they_o and_o the_o give_v it_o show_v no_o less_o and_o now_o i_o will_v know_v whether_o you_o will_v acknowledge_v your_o church_n bind_v to_o give_v it_o and_o to_o esteem_v so_o of_o it_o 3._o that_o it_o may_v be_v then_o command_v and_o be_v command_v be_v think_v necessary_a and_o yet_o be_v but_o a_o church_n constitution_n neither_o will_v i_o deny_v if_o the_o present_a church_n can_v and_o will_v so_o order_v it_o that_o the_o abuse_n of_o it_o may_v be_v prevent_v and_o conceive_v it_o profitable_a shall_v enjoin_v the_o use_n of_o it_o but_o that_o be_v command_v it_o will_v be_v necessary_a 4._o concern_v our_o ordination_n beside_o that_o i_o have_v prove_v it_o impossible_a that_o they_o shall_v be_v so_o doubtful_a as_o you_o according_a to_o your_o own_o principle_n i_o answer_v that_o experience_n show_v they_o certain_o sufficient_a to_o bring_v man_n to_o faith_n and_o repentance_n and_o consequent_o to_o salvation_n and_o that_o if_o there_o be_v any_o secret_a defect_n of_o any_o thing_n necessary_a which_o we_o can_v help_v god_n will_v certain_o supply_v it_o 19_o it_o be_v remarkable_a against_o what_o you_o say_v §_o 7._o that_o any_o small_a error_n in_o faith_n destroy_v all_o faith_n that_o s._n austin_n who_o authority_n be_v here_o stand_v upon_o think_v otherwise_o he_o conceive_v the_o donatist_n to_o hold_v some_o error_n in_o faith_n and_o yet_o not_o to_o have_v no_o faith_n his_o word_n of_o they_o to_o this_o purpose_n be_v most_o pregnant_a and_o evident_a you_o be_v with_o we_o say_v he_o to_o the_o donatist_n ep._n 48._o in_o baptism_n in_o the_o creed_n in_o the_o other_o sacrament_n and_o again_o super_fw-la gestis_fw-la cum_fw-la emerit_fw-la thou_o have_v prove_v to_o i_o that_o thou_o have_v faith_n prove_v to_o i_o likewise_o that_o thou_o have_v charity_n initium_fw-la lib._n 5._o prope_fw-la initium_fw-la parallel_v to_o which_o word_n be_v these_o of_o optatus_n among_o we_o and_o you_o be_v one_o ecclesiastical_a conversation_n common_a lesson_n the_o same_o faith_n the_o same_o sacrament_n where_o by_o the_o way_n we_o may_v observe_v that_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o these_o father_n even_o the_o donatist_n though_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n give_v true_a ordination_n the_o true_a sacrament_n of_o matrimony_n true_a sacramental_a absolution_n confirmation_n the_o true_a sacrament_n of_o the_o eucharist_n true_a extreme_a unction_n or_o else_o choose_v you_o whether_o some_o of_o these_o be_v not_o then_o esteem_v sacrament_n but_o for_o ordination_n whether_o he_o hold_v it_o a_o sacrament_n or_o no_o certain_o he_o hold_v that_o it_o remain_v with_o they_o entire_a for_o so_o he_o say_v in_o express_a term_n in_o his_o book_n against_o parmenianus_n his_o epistle_n which_o doctrine_n if_o you_o can_v reconcile_v with_o the_o present_a doctrine_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n eris_n mihi_fw-la magnus_fw-la apollo_n 20._o ad_fw-la §_o 8._o obj._n you_o say_v there_o be_v un_fw-fr inevitable_a necessity_n for_o we_o either_o to_o grant_v salvation_n to_o your_o church_n or_o to_o entail_v certain_a damnation_n upon_o our_o own_o because_o we_o can_v have_v no_o be_v till_o luther_n unless_o you_o be_v suppose_v to_o have_v be_v the_o true_a church_n i_o answer_v this_o cause_n be_v no_o cause_n for_o first_o as_o luther_n have_v no_o be_v before_o luther_n and_o yet_o he_o be_v when_o he_o be_v though_o he_o be_v not_o before_o so_o there_o be_v no_o repugnance_n in_o the_o term_n but_o that_o there_o may_v be_v a_o true_a church_n after_o luther_n though_o there_o be_v none_o for_o some_o age_n before_o as_o since_o columbus_n his_o time_n there_o have_v be_v christian_n in_o america_n though_o before_o there_o be_v none_o for_o many_o age_n for_o neither_o do_v you_o show_v neither_o do_v it_o appear_v that_o the_o generation_n of_o church_n be_v univocal_a that_o nothing_o but_o a_o church_n can_v possible_o beget_v a_o church_n nor_o that_o the_o present_a be_v of_o a_o true_a church_n depend_v necessary_o upon_o the_o perpetuity_n of_o a_o church_n in_o all_o age_n any_o more_o than_o the_o present_a be_v of_o peripatetic_n or_o stoic_n depend_v upon_o a_o perpetual_a pedigree_n of_o they_o for_o though_o i_o at_o no_o hand_n deny_v the_o church_n perpetuity_n yet_o i_o see_v nothing_o in_o your_o book_n to_o make_v i_o understand_v that_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o present_a depend_v upon_o it_o nor_o any_o thing_n that_o can_v hinder_v but_o that_o a_o false_a church_n god_n providence_n overwatch_v and_o overrule_a it_o may_v preserve_v the_o mean_n of_o confute_v their_o own_o heresy_n and_o reduce_v man_n to_o truth_n and_o so_o raise_v a_o true_a church_n i_o mean_v the_o integrity_n and_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n with_o man_n thus_o the_o jew_n preserve_v mean_n to_o make_v man_n christian_n and_o papist_n preserve_v mean_n to_o make_v man_n protestant_n and_o protestant_n which_o you_o say_v be_v a_o false_a church_n do_v as_o you_o pretend_v preserve_v mean_n to_o make_v man_n papist_n that_o be_v their_o own_o bibles_n out_o of_o which_o you_o pretend_v to_o be_v able_a to_o prove_v that_o they_o be_v to_o be_v papist_n second_o you_o show_v not_o nor_o do_v it_o appear_v that_o the_o perpetuity_n of_o the_o church_n depend_v on_o the_o truth_n of_o you_o for_o though_o you_o talk_v vain_o as_o if_o you_o be_v the_o only_a man_n in_o the_o world_n before_o luther_n yet_o the_o world_n know_v that_o this_o be_v but_o talk_n and_o that_o there_o be_v other_o christian_n beside_o you_o which_o may_v have_v perpetuate_v the_o church_n though_o you_o have_v not_o be_v last_o you_o show_v not_o neither_o do_v it_o appear_v that_o your_o be_v acknowledge_v in_o some_o sense_n a_o true_a church_n do_v necessary_o import_v that_o we_o must_v grant_v salvation_n to_o it_o unless_o by_o it_o you_o understand_v the_o ignorant_a member_n of_o it_o which_o be_v a_o very_a unusual_a synecdoche_n 21._o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o catholic_n never_o grant_v that_o the_o donatist_n have_v a_o true_a church_n or_o may_v be_v save_v i_o answ_v s._n austin_n himself_o grant_v that_o those_o among_o they_o who_o seek_v the_o truth_n be_v ready_a when_o they_o find_v it_o to_o correct_v their_o error_n be_v not_o heretic_n and_o therefore_o notwithstanding_o their_o error_n may_v be_v save_v and_o this_o be_v all_o the_o charity_n that_o protestant_n allow_v to_o papist_n therefore_o the_o argument_n of_o the_o donatist_n be_v as_o good_a as_o that_o of_o the_o papist_n against_o protestant_n for_o the_o donatist_n argue_v thus_o speak_v to_o the_o catholic_n yourselves_o confess_v our_o baptism_n sacrament_n and_o faith_n good_a and_o available_a we_o deny_v you_o to_o be_v so_o and_o say_v there_o be_v no_o church_n no_o salvation_n among_o you_o therefore_o it_o be_v safe_a for_o all_o to_o join_v with_o we_o 22._o s._n augustine_n word_n be_v cont_n lit_fw-fr petil_o l._n 2._o c._n 108._o petilianus_n dixit_fw-la venite_fw-la ad_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la populi_fw-la &_o aufugite_fw-la traditores_fw-la 108._o cont._n lit_fw-fr petil_n l._n 2._o c._n 108._o si_fw-la perire_fw-la non_fw-la vultis_fw-la petilian_n say_v come_v to_o the_o church_n you_o people_n and_o fly_v from_o the_o traditour_n if_o you_o will_v not_o be_v damn_v for_o that_o you_o may_v know_v that_o they_o be_v guilty_a esteem_v well_o of_o our_o faith_n behold_v i_o baptise_v these_o who_o they_o have_v infect_v but_o they_o receive_v those_o who_o we_o have_v baptise_a where_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o petilian_n by_o his_o word_n make_v the_o donatist_n the_o church_n and_o exclude_v the_o catholic_n from_o salvation_n absolute_o and_o whereas_o you_o say_v the_o catholic_n never_o yield_v that_o among_o the_o donatist_n there_o be_v a_o true_a church_n and_o hope_n of_o salvation_n i_o say_v it_o appear_v by_o what_o i_o have_v allege_v out_o of_o s._n austin_n that_o they_o
shall_v see_v what_o will_v come_v of_o it_o assure_v yourself_o you_o have_v a_o wolf_n by_o the_o ear_n if_o you_o say_v they_o be_v you_o overthrow_v your_o own_o conclusion_n and_o say_v that_o church_n divide_v in_o communion_n may_v both_o be_v member_n of_o the_o catholic_n if_o they_o be_v not_o then_o shall_v we_o have_v saint_n and_o martyr_n in_o heaven_n which_o be_v no_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n roman_n church_n as_o for_o irenaeus_n his_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o ruffinus_n his_o abscindere_fw-la ab_fw-la unitate_fw-la corporis_fw-la they_o imply_v no_o more_o but_o this_o at_o the_o most_o that_o victor_n quantum_fw-la in_fw-la se_fw-la fuit_fw-la do_v cut_v they_o off_o from_o the_o external_n communion_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n suppose_v that_o for_o their_o obstinacy_n in_o their_o tradition_n they_o have_v cut_v themselves_o off_o from_o the_o internal_a communion_n of_o it_o but_o that_o this_o sentence_n of_o victor_n be_v ratify_v in_o heaven_n and_o that_o they_o be_v indeed_o cut_v off_o from_o the_o mystical_a body_n of_o christ_n so_o far_o be_v irenaeus_n from_o think_v that_o he_o and_o in_o a_o manner_n all_o the_o other_o bishop_n reprehend_v victor_n for_o pronounce_v this_o sentence_n on_o they_o upon_o a_o cause_n so_o insufficient_a which_o how_o they_o can_v say_v or_o possible_o think_v of_o a_o sentence_n ratify_v by_o god_n in_o heaven_n and_o not_o reprehend_v god_n himself_o i_o desire_v you_o to_o inform_v i_o and_o if_o they_o do_v not_o intend_v to_o reprehend_v the_o sentence_n of_o god_n himself_o together_o with_o victor_n than_o i_o believe_v it_o will_v follow_v unavoidable_o that_o they_o do_v not_o conceive_v nor_o believe_v victor_n sentence_n to_o be_v ratify_v by_o god_n and_o consequent_o do_v not_o believe_v that_o these_o excommunicate_v church_n be_v not_o in_o god_n account_n true_a member_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n ad_fw-la §_o 4._o and_o here_o again_o we_o have_v another_o subterfuge_n by_o a_o verbal_a distinction_n between_o excommunication_n and_o voluntary_a separation_n as_o if_o the_o separation_n which_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n make_v in_o victor_n time_n from_o the_o asian_a church_n be_v not_o a_o voluntary_a separation_n or_o as_o if_o the_o church_n of_o asia_n do_v not_o voluntary_o do_v that_o which_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o their_o separation_n or_o as_o if_o though_o they_o sepated_a not_o themselves_o indeed_o conceive_v the_o cause_n to_o be_v insufficient_a they_o do_v not_o yet_o remain_v voluntary_o separate_v rather_o than_o conform_v themselves_o to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n or_o last_o as_o if_o the_o grecian_n of_o old_a or_o the_o protestant_n of_o late_a may_v not_o pretend_v as_o just_o as_o the_o asian_a church_n that_o their_o separation_n too_o be_v not_o voluntary_o but_o of_o necessity_n for_o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n require_v of_o they_o under_o pain_n of_o excommunication_n such_o condition_n of_o her_o communion_n as_o be_v neither_o necessary_a nor_o lawful_a to_o be_v perform_v ad_fw-la §_o 5._o and_o here_o again_o the_o matter_n be_v straighten_v by_o another_o limitation_n both_o side_n say_v you_o must_v claim_v to_o be_v the_o church_n but_o what_o then_o if_o one_o of_o they_o only_o claim_v though_o vain_o to_o be_v the_o church_n and_o the_o other_o content_a itself_o with_o be_v a_o part_n of_o it_o these_o than_o it_o seem_v for_o any_o thing_n you_o have_v say_v to_o the_o contrary_a may_v be_v both_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o certain_o this_o be_v the_o case_n now_o between_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o for_o aught_o i_o know_v be_v between_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o church_n of_o greece_n for_o i_o believe_v it_o will_v hardly_o be_v prove_v that_o the_o excommunication_n between_o they_o be_v mutual_a nor_o that_o the_o church_n of_o greece_n esteem_v itself_o the_o whole_a church_n and_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n no_o church_n but_o itself_o a_o sound_a member_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o a_o corrupt_a one_o again_o whereas_o you_o say_v the_o father_n speak_v of_o a_o voluntary_a separation_n certain_o they_o speak_v of_o any_o separation_n by_o heretic_n and_o such_o be_v in_o victor_n judgement_n the_o church_n of_o asia_n for_o hold_v a_o opinion_n contrary_a to_o the_o faith_n as_o he_o esteem_v or_o if_o he_o do_v not_o why_o do_v he_o cut_v they_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n but_o the_o true_a difference_n be_v the_o father_n speak_v of_o those_o which_o by_o your_o church_n be_v esteem_v heretic_n and_o be_v so_o whereas_o the_o asian_a church_n be_v by_o victor_n esteem_v heretic_n but_o be_v not_o so_o ad_fw-la §_o 6._o but_o their_o authority_n produce_v show_v no_o more_o than_o what_o i_o have_v show_v that_o the_o church_n be_v â—ut_v one_o in_o exclusion_n of_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n and_o not_o that_o two_o particular_a church_n divide_v by_o mistake_n upon_o some_o overvalue_v difference_n may_v not_o be_v both_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_n ad_fw-la §_o 7._o but_o i_o desire_v you_o to_o tell_v i_o whether_o you_o will_v do_v this_o if_o the_o doctrine_n produce_v and_o confirm_v by_o such_o a_o consent_n of_o father_n happen_v to_o be_v in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n either_o not_o catholic_n or_o absolute_o heretical_a if_o you_o will_v undertake_v this_o you_o shall_v hear_v far_o from_o i_o but_o if_o when_o their_o place_n be_v produce_v you_o will_v pretend_v as_o some_o of_o your_o side_n do_v that_o sure_o they_o be_v corrupt_v have_v neither_o reason_n nor_o show_v of_o reason_n for_o it_o unless_o this_o may_v pass_v for_o one_o as_o perhaps_o it_o may_v where_o reason_n be_v scarce_o that_o they_o be_v against_o your_o doctrine_n or_o if_o you_o will_v say_v they_o be_v to_o be_v interpret_v according_a to_o the_o pleasure_n of_o your_o church_n whether_o their_o word_n will_v bear_v it_o or_o no_o then_o i_o shall_v but_o lose_v my_o labour_n for_o this_o be_v not_o to_o try_v your_o church_n by_o the_o father_n but_o the_o father_n by_o your_o church_n the_o doctrine_n which_o i_o undertake_v to_o justify_v by_o a_o great_a consent_n of_o father_n than_o here_o you_o produce_v for_o instance_n shall_v be_v these_o 1._o that_o god_n election_n suppose_v prescience_n of_o man_n faith_n and_o perseverance_n 2._o that_o god_n do_v not_o predetermine_v man_n to_o all_o their_o action_n 3._o that_o the_o pope_n have_v no_o power_n in_o temporalty_n over_o king_n either_o direct_o or_o indirect_o 4._o that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n may_v err_v in_o his_o public_a determination_n of_o matter_n of_o faith_n 5._o that_o the_o b._n virgin_n be_v guilty_a of_o original_a sin_n 6._o that_o the_o b._n virgin_n be_v guilty_a of_o actual_a sin_n 7._o that_o the_o communion_n be_v to_o be_v administer_v to_o the_o laity_n in_o both_o kind_n 8._o that_o the_o read_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v to_o be_v deny_v to_o no_o man_n 9_o that_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o millenaries_n be_v true_a 10._o that_o the_o eucharist_n be_v to_o be_v administer_v to_o infant_n 11._o that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n remain_v in_o the_o eucharist_n of_o her_o consecration_n 12._o that_o the_o soul_n of_o the_o saint_n depart_v enjoy_v not_o the_o vision_n of_o god_n before_o the_o last_o day_n 13._o that_o at_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n all_o the_o saint_n shall_v past_o through_o a_o purge_a fire_n all_o these_o proposition_n be_v hold_v by_o your_o church_n either_o heretical_a or_o at_o least_o not_o catholical_a and_o yet_o in_o this_o promise_n of_o you_o you_o have_v undertake_v to_o believe_v they_o as_o firm_o as_o you_o now_o do_v this_o that_o two_o divide_a society_n can_v be_v both_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n ad_fw-la §_o 8._o be_v it_o not_o then_o the_o answerers_n part_n to_o show_v that_o the_o proof_n pretend_v be_v indeed_o no_o proof_n and_o do_v not_o he_o prove_v no_o proof_n at_o least_o in_o your_o mouth_n who_o undertake_v to_o show_v that_o a_o equal_a or_o great_a number_n of_o the_o very_a same_o witness_n be_v reject_v by_o yourselves_o in_o many_o other_o thing_n either_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o father_n in_o any_o age_n or_o age_n be_v infallible_a and_o then_o you_o be_v to_o reject_v it_o in_o nothing_o or_o it_o be_v not_o so_o and_o then_o you_o be_v not_o to_o urge_v it_o in_o any_o thing_n as_o if_o the_o father_n testimony_n against_o we_o be_v sword_n and_o spear_n and_o against_o you_o bulrush_n ad_fw-la §_o 9_o in_o effect_n as_o if_o you_o shall_v say_v if_o you_o answer_v not_o as_o i_o please_v i_o will_v dispute_v no_o long_o but_o you_o remember_v the_o proverb_n will_v think_v