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A16170 A courteous conference with the English Catholikes Romane about the six articles ministred vnto the seminarie priestes, wherein it is apparantly proued by their owne diuinitie, and the principles of their owne religion, that the Pope cannot depose her Maiestie, or release her subiectes of their alleageance vnto her. And finally, that the bull of Pius Quiutus [sic] pronounced against her Maiestie is of no force eyther in lawe or conscience, all Catholicke scruples to the contrarie beeing throughly and perfectly cleared and resolued, and many memoriall matters exactly discussed, which haue not beene handled by man heeretofore. Written by Iohn Bishop a recusant papist. Bishop, John, d. 1613.; Frewen, John, 1558-1628. 1598 (1598) STC 3092; ESTC S102284 61,282 90

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because he would not accept at his cōmandement Langton for Archbishoppe anone after excōmunicated Langton and the Byshoppes and the Barrons his confederates because they woulde force the King to performe the oath which his owne legate had commaunded the King to sweare at the attonement making for the restoring of the auncient lawes of the land if the lawes were vniust and it was a wronge to constraiee the King to restore them why did hee force the King to sweare the restitution of them But if they weare iust good and godly and for the publicke profitte why did he not rather assist then excommunicate them that sought to force the king to keepe his bodily oath made vnto him and them the which he had also done at his coronation yea and had made at the time of the peace with the Pope a Charter of them which also this Pope himselfe confirmed Now the case was altered Although indeede this case was of greater moment and the Pope must still pleasure his friendes First his cardinall was to be aduaunced to an Archbyshoppricke and then the king his new vassall was to be enfranchised of all othes and honesty and vpholden and maintained with both sworde● in all tyranny and villanie If any credit is to bee giuen to all the Catholicke Cronicles of that age And this I speake not for that I doe like or allow the rebellion of the Barons Lib. 9. but to shew the irreligious pertiality of the vniust peruerse passionate Pope I doe also finde in Cromerus that the Archbyshoppe of Gnesne did excommunicate Boleslaw the balde one of the Polonian Princes Duke of Legnitz for taking prisoner the byshoppe of Preslen and certain other of that Church and detaining them in prison And when that for all this he woulde not release them without ransome Pope Alexander the fourth willed the Archbyshoppe to proclame a Croly against him in Polen and the Archbyshoppe of Magdenburge annother in Germany But these excommunications for imprisoning of Prelates to proceede of partialitie is manifestly discouered by the same Cromerus who writes that not farre from the same time another Archbyshoppe of Gnesne did excommunicate Boleslawe the chast duke of the lesser Polen and interdicted the whole prouince because certaine young Gentlemen had eyther by the commission or permission of Boleslaw the chast taken and kept one moneth in honorable custodie Paule the Byshoppe of Craccow because that contrary to his calling he was wholly giuen to pleasures hunting and letchery was grieuous to his subiectes stubburne towardes his Prince neither would mende his manners for the entreatie admonishmēt of his Chapter and Prince but also tooke a Nunne out of a Nunery kept hir for his Concubine Yet was the Godly Prince forced to let loose this vngodly prelate to giue him two hundred pounde of siluer for a mendes whereas if he had giuen him his desert a halter he had preuented a daungerous and bloodie Rebellion afterwarde in reuenge hereof procured by the Bishoppe also a pitifull wasting of the country done by the Lythuanians at his traiterous instigation Hitherto ye haue heard not of one Prince deposed for Christes and the common causes but all for priuate quarels here I willingly and wittingly omitte the depriuations of Sicilian and Neapolitaine Princes and all other ouer whom the See of Rome clameth to haue Soueraignetie secular And I can finde onely foure Princes deposed for Religion The first Raimond Earle of Tolowsen Since the writing of this booke Henry king of Nauarre hath been ●●priued of his dominions by the P ●● whether because he did embrace the Religion of the Albigenses or because he did not expell them out of his dominions of certainety I know not The seconde George Pogrebrot the King of Boemia for maintaining the doctrine reuiued by Iohn Hus And the third and fourth Henry the eight and his daughter Queene Elizabeth our renowned Princes and dreade Soueraignes And although some hott headed Catholickes Romaine will perhappes praise the Popes zeale in deposing of our Princes yet must they needes all confesse that it was done smally for the weale of him his friendes here and therefore done without iudgement and discretion And that these ma●do bulles haue killed many and hurt more of the Popes friendes and fauourers but not done one halfe penny worth of harme vnto them against whome they were sent And how smally they haue bene regarded of the Popes most deuoutest children it may apparantly appeare by the leagues made by Charles the Emperour and Charles the french King with King Henry and her maiesty after they were excommunicated and depriued by the Popes and the one an euerlasting league both offensiue and defensiue to the euerlasting shame of such subiectes as haue sought to reuolt or shall wickedly beare armes against the soueraigne in that vniust quarrell But to conclude if wee doe wisely weigh the matter and carefully call to minde all the wofull warres and wastes massacres miseries and calamities that this practise of deposing of Princes hath wrought wee shall finde that the West Church hath beene more wasted and weaken●● thereby and that it hath caused the murder of moe men then all the cruel persecutions of the heathen heretickes and all the bloodie swordes of the Turkes and Saracens Thus hauing shewed that this deposing of Princes is neither authorised by the word of God nor warranted by the practise of the Iewish nor Christian Church within one thousand yeares after Christ nor then deuised or since practised The Pope cannot release subiectes of their aleagiance for the profitte and benefitte of the Christian common weale Let vs goe vnto our third propositiō that the Pope cannot loose subiects of their natural duetifull faith and obedience vnto their Princes It is the common opinion of all diuines Catholicke Romaine that the Pope can not dispense in those things which are ordained by God But this obedience to princes to be cōmāded by the law of god it is most manifest by the places which we haue afore alleaged out of the sacred Scriptures in the first proposition Wherefore as Christ saide of Marriage those whom God hath ioyned togeather let noe man separate and doth pronounce him to be an adulterer that doth put away his wife and marrieth annother vnlesse it be for fornication notwithstanding that Moses had for the hardnesse of the Iewes harts permitted them many other causes So likewise may not the Pope separate the subiectes marryed to their prince for so they are solemnely by a ring in our lande from the Prince for any other causes then such as God hath ordained and what subiecte soeuer shall for any causes put away his Prince and take annother committeth rebellion and treason And as Christ did abrogate that permission of Moses so likewise must that of the Popes be repealed and so much the rather because the Popes constitutions are not so well warranted as were Moses ordinances who receiued them
of the very mouth of God himselfe And if Christ saide he came into the world not to d●stroy the law but to fulfill it by what right can the Pope who deriueth his authoritie from Christ as his substitute and deputy in the earth claime the authoritie to make that voide which God hath ordained And faine would I know of you what faultes you finde in the word of GOD that subiectes may reuolt from their Prince and take them to another And I am sure you cannot name me one for doubtlesse there can be noe greater faultes in a Prince then Idolatry and tyranny and yet wee haue expresse commaundementes of GOD from his owne mouth vnto the people of Israell for to bee obedient vnto two notorious Idolaters and triumphes An obiection of controuersie with the wicked a●swered the one by the Prophet Ieremy Chap. 27. that they should serue Nabuchadonisor the other by Christ himself that they should pay tribute vnto Cesar But ye will say that Christ saide if thy brother will not heare the Church let him bee vnto thee as an Ethnicke and Publicane or customer and that we are commaunded by Paule not to keepe company with the wicken and by Saint Iohn not to say good morrow to an heretike And now I would fayne know of you howe the Iewes did shunne an Ethnike and a publicane did they not pay tributes and customes vnto ethnike Emperours did they they not serue them in warre finally did they not doe all dueties of loyall subiectes did they not also come vnto the publicans to pay their customs and towlles although they were nor familiar with them did vsually keepe them company Againe when Sant Paule did charge the Corinthians not to keepe company with a brother that was a whoorhunter or couetous or an idolatour or euill tongued or a dunkard or a violent taker away of other mens goods and not to eate meate with any such Doe you thinke the wife that had an husband the childe a father the bondmand a Lord or master infected with any of these faultes were thereby incontinently discharged of all duety towardes them yea and bound in conscience speedily to runne away from them and neuer to doe them more seruice nor come at them I am sure ye will say no for by the canon law they are bound to abide with them being excommunicated for any other faulte then for heresy And that is a latter edition of the Popes for there is no such distinction to be found in the cōmandement of God nor his Apostles But all excommunicated and wicked persons are alike commaunded to be shunned and no difference to be put betweene the Idolater and the whooremonger So then if Christ and his Apostles did not discharge the wife the childe or bondman of their dueties towardes the excommunicated neyther did they also the subiectes of their alleageance to their prince for they be as fast tyed to their prince by a bond and lawe which onely death can vndoe as the wife is to hir husband and therefore included in this word Lex of the canonicall verse that shewes who may communicate with excommunicated persons Vtile lex humile res ignorata necesse and also aswell vnder and subiected to their soueraigne as the childe vnto his father and the bondman vnto his Lord and master and so are comprised also in the word humile of the same verse But let vs returne where we left The Pope deposed Boleslaw the king of Polen for slaying in his rage Stanislaw the Bishop of Craccow yet when Saule had without cause vniustly and tyrannically slayne Achimelech the high priest and all his whole house saue one that fortunately escaped yea priestes in number fourescore and seuen all the men women little children sucking babes oxen asses and sheepe that were in the Citie of the priestes called Nob Yet Dauid whom God had annointed king and Saul did causelesse cruelly persecute from place to place sought by all meanes to bereaue of life yet thought not himselfe discharged of his allegeance by this detestable murder of the sacred priestes of God but when hee had him twise at aduantage saued his life and tolde Abisri who desired him to dispatch the tyrante with one blowe slewe him not for who shall stretch foorth his hande against the annoynted of the Lorde and shall be innocent As sure as the Lord liueth vnlesse the Lorde shall strike him or his day shall come that he die or perish in sight God neuer be mercifull vnto me if I doe stretch forth mine hande against the annoynted of the Lorde Yee see heere a playne assertion of Dauid that subiectes are not released of their alleageance if that their princes fall to vngodlinesse and tyranny much lesse doth he allowe that euerie priuate man murder him shamefullie yea when a younge man brought Dauid newes of Saules death and presented him with Saules diademe and bracelette Dauid put him to death because he had tolde him that at the Kinges great instance and entreatie that he might not fall into the handes of his enemies who enuironed him rounde about hee beeing no Israelite but an Amalachite had killed him saying why didst thou not feare to sende thy hande that thou mightest kill the annoynted of the Lorde And againe the bloode be vpon thy heade for thy mouth hath spoken against thee saying I haue slaine the annoynted of the Lord. Wherefore seeing Dauid doth allowe no cause of reuoulte and doth thinke that the subiectes are loosed of their alleageance by no fault and wickednesse of their prince by what warrant of the worde can the Pope at his pleasure release subiectes of their alleageance And whereas we reade in the 34 of Iob that GOD doth make the hypocrite man to raigne for the sinnes of the people or as other translate it to afflict and plauge the people what a malapart parte is it of the Pope to pull the rodde out of Gods hande by violence and to chase him away whome God hath specially sente to chastice his people Neyther haue I sucked this sentence out of mine owne fingers endes but learned it of a learned greate Pope Gregorie the greate who interpreting in his moralles the late rehearsed place of Iob and alleadging vnto it the thirteenth of Osee I will giue Kinges in my furie hath these wordes Quid ergo illos nobis praesse despicimus quorum super nos regimina ex Domini furore suscepimus Why then doe we despise them to be our princes whose raignes and gouermentes ouer vs wee haue receiued from the wrath of GOD So that the Pope may not displace the good princes because they are good princes nor the euill because they are placed by GOD to punish his people And if the Canonistes holde that no man can iudge the Pope because he sitteth in the chiefest chaire Who then shall iudge the king who is saide in 2. Paralip 9. to be ordained of God to set vpon his owne throne and shall
hauock he made in all the the Churches subiect vnto him in Italy Sicileye and Sardinia and yet for all this Peter drewe not the sworde for hee yet remembred how bitterly his master had once checked him before for fighting Anno Dom. 700. Iustinianus the Emperour saith Diaconus commaunding Constantine the Pope to come vnto him honourably receiued him Constantine and sent him backe whom he beeing prostrated on the ground desired to be an intercessor vnto God for his sinnes renewed all the priuiledges of his Church why then the priuiledges were first giuen by the Emperour and not by God himselfe But that the Emperour fell downe at the Bishops feete it was done in respect not of his greatnesse but of his godlinesse a thing vsually done by great princes vnto ancient Monkes and Hermites renowned for their strict life and rare pietie whereof all Christian histories yeelde vs store of examples and this to be soe doth his request of intercession vnto GOD for his sinnes manifestly shewe But to returne againe to our practise about Anno Domini 690. another Iustinian the Emperour sent Zacharias his Protospatharius or high Constable into Italy for to bring Sergius the Bishop of Rome Sergius vnto him in Irons because he woulde not subscribe vnto a lewde counsell helde by him at Constantinople Sabell and he had done it if that the Emperiall Armie in Italy what for hatred of the Emperour and the good will of the Pope and his cause had not speedily marched to Rome to withstand his apprehension yet this Emperour did afterwarde renewe for Constantine the Bishop a confirmation of all the p●iuiledges of the Sea of Rome This Constantine was the first Bishop of Rome saith Omphrius the newe Chronicler of the Popes Qui in os ausus est resistere which durst resist the Emperours of Constantinople to their faces for he at the importunate petition of the people of Rome who requested it with great outcries decreede that the name of Philippicus the Emperour shoulde not be mentioned at the Aulter nor in anie writing or recordes nor his image set vp in their Churches because he had commaunded the Bishop to consent vnto his Arrianisme and the abolishing of the Images of Saintes But Paulus Diaconus who liued neare that time writeth that statuit populus the people decreede and not the Pope About Anno Domini 7●5 Leo Isauricus the Emperour commaunded Gregory the Bishop of Rome Gregorie the second to destroy all the images of the Saintes the which he refused to doe But although the Emperour did execute many therefore and about that matter banished the patriarch of Constantinople and had sundry times practised the Popes death both couertly and also by open forces causing the Eparch to bring his Armie before the Citie of Rome where he was repelled by the Lombardes yet woulde the Pope by no meanes be wonne to consent that a new Emperour should be chosen in Ital●e the which was now in a good forwardnesse the people hauing slaine Martin the gouernour of the Citie of Rome and his sonne the Lieuetenant of Campania and the Citizens of Rauenna the Eparch and had chosen them almost in euerie Citie newe officers But Gregorie woulde by no meanes consent thereunto but wonne them to be quiet with much a doe But when the Emperour woulde not desist from forcing of his edict for the abolishment of Images vppon the Romanes and the Italians Gregorie the third successor vnto the other helde a Counsell in Italie wherein he excommunicated the Emperour and then the Citizens of Rome and all the teritorie about called by the name of the Duchy of Rome reuolted from the Emperour who was negligent in defending them against the Lombardes that had sweeped him almost out of all Italie from Rome to the Alpes and soe the Pope became prince of the Citie and Duchie of Rome S. Sigon de regno Italiae and subiect vnto no man about the yeare 730. And to establish the state of the Romane principalitie by stopping of titles Zacharias the Pope wonne his Creator Pepine the french king to spoyle Aistulfus the king of the Lombardes of Rauenna by right whereof beeing the siege of the Gotish kingdome and the emperiall exarchate in Italy The Pope cannot depose princes he claimeth tribute of the Romanes and for to bestowe it vppon him and his successors for to take away all quarrell for euer Thus ye see that the Bishoppes of Rome were alwaies subiect vnto the temporall princes of the Citie vntill such time as the reuolting people had created him their prince as all other Bishops in ciuill soueraigne so that the Popes are not exempted of temporall subiection by the institution of GOD but by the election of men as the high priestes became to be soueraignes after the returne of the Iewes from Babylon there beeing ordained to be the temporall prince Then seeing by the ordinance of God the Pope was a subiect and by the creation of men beeing made a soueraigne onely ouer some certaine prouinces I cannot see howe eyther by Gods Law or mans hee can rightly claime anie authoritie to depose Christian princes at his pleasure no more then any other subiecte can his soueraigne or seuerall soueraignes one another to grant eyther of which is soe absurde that I shoulde shewe my selfe to haue verie little witte if I shoulde goe aboute to refute eyther as though any man that had common sense woulde doubte of them For to reason that Sixtus Quintus because hee is secular soueraigne ouer these prouinces which are called the patrimonie of Peter may therefore depose all other Christian princes is as good an argument as if I shoulde saie ELIZABETH is Queene of England therefore she may depose the prince of the patrimonie and all other Christian princes So that by prouing my first proposition that Christ gaue vnto Peter and his successors no soueraignetie secular I haue also conuinced the seconde that they can not depriue Christian princes of their principalities The Pope cannot depose the temporall soueraine Neyther is the Popes claime anie thing aduanced by those two sayinges of Christ vnto Peter which I doe finde alleadged by Gregorie the seuenth when hee first of anie Pope deposed Henry the fourth Emperour as the warrant of his doings Plati The first is feede my sheepe wherein hee did not sayde Gregorie exempt Kinges And the other whatsoeuer thou shalt binde on the earth shall be bound in Heauen and whatsoeuer thou doest loose in the earth shall be loosed in Heauen For I haue proued before that Christ his kingdome was spirituall and soe a spirituall charge of soules hee committed to Peter and the rest of the Apostles and their successors and noe Empyre ouer the bodies and goods of anie men But Doctor S●u●ders takes greate holde of the Greeke woorde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Poimaine which the Apostle vseth when Christ bad Peter the second time to feede his sheepe for that
the temple because hee offred incense but because the wraith of GOD had made him a leper the which kinde of men by the expresse commaundement of GOD might not conuerse with other And if wee will receiue the report and assertion of Iosephus a learned Priest and historian of the Iewes the priestes did not thrust him out of the temple but admonished him to depart the which hee did soone obey when he saw himselfe made so loathsome on a sodaine was astonied with the manifest wraith of God and hereunto the text seameth to assent which saith and hastily they expelled him c. But he himselfe also made hast to goe out because he had presently felt the plague or strooke of God But that he was as some seeme to say deposed of his Kingdome therefore we doe reade neither in the scriptures nor in Iosephus But onely this saith Paralyp So King Ozias was a leeper euen to his dying day and dwelt in an house by himselfe because he was full of leprosie for the which he had beene cast out of the house of the Lord Furthermore Ioathan his sonne gouerned the kings house and iudged the people of the land And almost the same words wee reade in the booke of the kings Soe that by the wordes of the text it doth not appeare that he was either deposed or did giue vp the Kingdom but onely abandoned al resort by reason of his contagious sicknesse and ignominy gaue vp the maneging of matters of state and the princely port vnto his sonne and so accordingly whosoeuer doth marke diligently the supputiaton of yeares which the booke of the Kings maketh shall manifestly see that he reckoneth Ozias his raigne euen vntill his dying day Neither if that Ozias had beene deposed because of his leprosy would it soe much further theire cause as they faine in saying that heresy is inward leprosy then Idolatry is And yet can they not finde that euer any King of the Iewes was deposed by the high Priest for Idolatry nor any Christian prince by the Pope for any cause for the space of seauen hundreth yeares after Christ although those times yeelded many vngodly Princes as we haue shewed you before of Emperours one flatly fallen from the faith vnto Paganisme sundry Arrians some Monothlets and Eutiches and many cruell persecutors of the Catholickes And so likewise many of the Ostrogothes in Italy were Arrians and many moe in the same prouince of the Lombard kinges And yet a farre longer race of the Westgotish Kings in Spaine But if any man will rubbe his face and say that the Byshoppes of Rome in those ages eyther had not so much knowledge in the worde of GOD or else so greate zeale as there successors since all men that shall heare them will shoute at them They write that when Nero whipped Senatoures executed noble men spoyled Citizens wasted prouinces without cause or colour and finally in all things made his lust law he triumphing at this iolitie boasted that neuer any man before him did know what an Emperour might doe Act. 5. Certes the holy and learned fathers in ancient time knew not this diuinitie that when there princes wrongfully oppressed them they should straightway cast off their yoke but rather patiently beare whatsoeuer ill should be inflicted on them for Gods cause Mat. 5. They remembred that the Apostles from whom they set their light and learning being whipped at a conuocation of the Iewish Pristes and Elders went away reioycing because they were counted worthie to suffer reproach for the name of Iesus Athanatius in epla 2. ad vlit vit Agent They had not forgotten the saying of their Sauiour Mat. 5. Blessed are they that suffer persecution for righteousnesse for theires is the Kingdome of heauen Ye are blessed when men shall curse you and persecute you and lying shall say all manner of euill against you for me Reioyce and be glad because your reward in heauen is abundant for so they persecuted the Prophets that were before you When Constantius the wicked Emperour vrged Hosius the holy Byshoppe of Cordula the Byshoppe of Rome his deputy and the three hundreth Byshoppes assembled at Sa●dica with bitter banishment as he had alreadie serued many of there colledges vnlesse they would subscribe to the wicked errour of Arrius they all refused to doe it but they did not menace the Emperour with deposition if hee woulde not relinquish his false faith and reuoke the godly banished Byshoppes bur contrariwise confessed vnto him Non nob●s fas est imperium in te●riis tenere it is not lawfull for vs to holde Empire on the earth And not withstanding all his hurtfull wickednesse yet they affirmed that he that should cast but a malignant eye at his Empire did resist the ordinance of God so farre were they from thinking that his subiectes might openly take armes against him Don Iohn De Austria in his warres in the low Cuntries Don Iohns ensignes bare in his ensigne a deuise of a crosse with this word In hoc signo vicī Turcos in h c signo vincam hereticos with this signe I ouercame the Turkes with this signe I will vanquish the heretikes so if the latter Popes had saide with this vertue and weapon of patience our ancestors ouercame the heathen and heriticall Emperours and with the same we will ouercome the Emperours that will intrude vppon our temporalities perhappes their state had not bene now so staggering for whosoeuer shall marke the course of the history of the Church of God shall finde that it hath growen greate by patience but hath rather decreased then encreased by armes and violence Moreouer if the Popes will vouchsafe to reade their old recordes they shall see and vnderstande that such of their predecessors as armed themselues with patience and vsed none other but the spirituall sword and that also sparingly and seldome were had of all men in greater reputation and reuerence and could doe more in the world then their successors that after the spirituall sword which Christ had deliuered vnto them sharpe and dreadfull to be vsed onelie in extremitie but in his cause quarell had through there continuall abusing and drawing at euery light priuate braule became so hagled blunt and contemptible that euery boy laught at it did furiously fall to catching of the secular sworde out of the temporall magistrates hand Like as they report of Iulius the seconde whether meerely deuised or done in deede I saith Ferou know not that when he went in person into the fielde against the French armed with a paire of keyes in his hande and a sworde by his side hee threw his keyes into the riuer of Tiber and therewith all drawing his sworde saide seeing Peters keyes haue done noe good Paules sworde shall helpe mee And surely therein the Pope fared like Ioakin the King of Iuda who trusted in a rotten reede the king of Egypt to defende him against the Assyrian And so they incurred
by little and little they came to take place aboue all Bishoppes Archbishops Metropolitans Primates Patriarkes which began to be vsed by little and little about the time of Gregory the seuenth Vrbane the second in which times the election of the Pope whose authority did then begin to be supreame as well in spirituall thinges as temporall the Emperours being depressed or trodden downe was taken out of the hands and power of the Emperours and granted especially to the Cardinals And anone after a Priest Cardinall was a meane place between a Bishop other Priestes not Cardinals But in the time of Alexander the third vnder whom the Church of Rome was aduanced to the highest top or step in earth the most mighty Emperour Fredericke Redbeard he also a most infestious foe of the Church of Rome being trodē vnder foot vanquished and forced to desire peace of the Church then first contrariwise Priest Cardinals were made of Bishops for the dignity of the Cardinals did stil grow with the dignity of the Church Bishops of Rome but that was greatest in those daies Thus farre Omphrius But because Platina others do affirme that the Pope the Emperour first fell out about symony or inuesting of Bishops let vs see how iniuriously herein the Pope dealt with the Emperour It doth appeare both by the Bookes of the canon law also by Sigonius and other historians the Popes chiefe fauourers that Pope Hadriā gaue vnto Charles the great the king of the french men Emperour of Rome Leo the eight vnto Otho the great the king of the Tuischtmen Emperour for euer the inuesture of the Bishops of Rome of al other Bishops within their dominions decreeing that no Bishop chosen by the clargy and people should be consecrated vnlesse he were first nominated inuested that is had the crosier and ring deliuered him by the Emperour this authority priuiledge enioied al Emperours from Charles the great vnto this Henry being the 17 in succession and that he vsed it no otherwise it is aparant by the election of the Bishop of Cullen by the clergy the people a little while before this broile wherof we do read mention made in Lambertus Snatchburgensis A thing alwaies vsed in England that neyther Bishop nor Abot should be chosen without a conge de ler or licence to chose first obtained of the king nor reputed for Bishop before the king had confirmed him So likewise Hosius contra Brentium doth affirme that the kings of Poland haue alwaies had the nominating of all Bishps with in their kingdom Now of this anciēt part of his patrimony of the Empyre would Gregorie spoyle Henry yea and all lay men making a decree that he should be accursed that did take any ecclesiasticall dignitie or benefice at the hande of any lay man See Platina and Sabell and did also excommunicate the lay man that should giue any nowe I pray you which of them two shewed most charitie Henry that for quietnesse sake was contented to loose the right which he and his ancestors had so long time held in confirming of the Bishops of Rome in the cause and bloodie schisme of Alexander Gregories immediate predecessor or Gregorie that was not contented and satisfied with this rare indulgence of the Emperour in one and the greatest Bishoppricke but would depose him vnlesse he would also surrender his right in all the rest eyther would haue his wil or else would set all Christendome in an vprore And put case he had solde two or three small Bishopprickes as his enemies did charge him for the great electors sees they themselues beeing his enemies confessed he had not sold was that a sufficient cause to make him forsake him and his successors for euer an ancient right and inheritance belonging to the emperiall crowne as the presenting vnto benefices is an inheritance of many secular subiectes And could the Church of Christ be so much endamaged therby as with thirtie yeares bloodie warres in all partes of Germanie and Italy through the troubles whereof neyther the Popes nor other Bishoppes could employ their functions But letting this passe Philippe the next deposition was of Philip the Emperour for inuading Peters patrimony before he was Emperour and while he was duke of Tuscan But because some will say he was neuer Emperour because through the Popes menaces but fiue of the electors had chosen him we will let him passe and come vnto Otho Otho the Duke of Saxon whom two of the electors afterward at the great instance of the Pope had chosen Emperour and whom he almost immediatly after he had crowned him deposed because he inuaded the landes of his puple and vassall the king of Naples Did this come of charitie or of a priuate quarrell It is apparant that the Popes vsed not nor now doe to censure anie prince for enuading of his neighbour vnlesse he were a vassal or priuiledged prince of his And then to make vp the good three comes on a row Fredelicke the second Emperour Frederick and also king of Naples for inuesting of Bishoppes in Naples and leuying money of the clergie And after the controuersie was ended againe because he did not performe his vow to goe into the holy land and that also satisfied for making warres against the rebellious Lombardes or to make the verie worst of it for practising with the Frangipanes and other Romanes to reuolt from the Pope whom he distrusted did secretly ayde his rebelles in Lombardy And did not flesh and blood and priuate reuenge raigne in all these actions were any of these causes so weightie that for them should be raised vp the pernicious factions of Guelses and Ghibbelines to set at enmitie for euer not onely euery prince prouinc● and Citie of Italy but also euery name and familie for to embrace their murdering swordes The last deposed Emperour was Lewes the fourth Lewes See Platina and Nauill because he intermedled in Italie before the Pope had crowned him a vsuall thing and that which was the very cause indeede because he openly professed himselfe a fauourer of the Ghibbelines and namely the vicecount whom the Pope deadly hated and had excommunicated for taking armes against the Guelses and put the Florentines and the Neopolitanes and the other Guelses in feare least he would saith Platina ex●ct of them Iura imperia●a the rightes belonging to the Empyre And who seeth not heere partiality and not charitie Moreouer Peter Peter the king of Aragon was deposed and his kingdom of Aragon giuen vnto Charles of Valois the French kinges brother because he had receiued the Sicilians reuolting from the tyranny of Charles the Duke of Aniou whom the Pope had placed prince there And doth not also smell of priuate reuenge Is this the common good that Pighius beareth vs in hand the Church of Christ reapeth by this prerogatiue of the Pope that he doth therby reuenge the priuate
happely they could bring him within the compasse of treason by denying the paiment of tribute vnto the Emperour and so procure his death by the Romaine president as seditious And therefore he asked them why they tempted him and willed them to shew him a peny and then he demaunded of them whose image was stamped on the peece and they answered the Emperours then saide he giue the Emperour that which is his and so likwise ynto god that which is gods a very obscure sentence giuen by a iudge in a sute but a wise and wittie answere for such false traterous Interrogants And with the like trisles doth the same Felisius also trouble vs when he goeth about to proue the exemption of the clergy frō free subiection of secular princes because Melchisdech was both a king and a priest so likewise Moses a priest supreme gouernor of the Iseralites And finally Hely was both high priest and also secular Prince or iudge of the Iewes For if Melchisedech were both a King and a Priest what is that to the controuersie that we haue now in hand whether that Priestes be subiect vnto the temporall Prince but perhaps it touched the matter if we had disputed whether that a Bishop may be also a temporall Prince See Fenestella As for a King to be a Priest was an vsual thing in many countries among the heathen Yea all the Romaine Kings had the chiefe charge of the sacrifices temples and worshippe of the gods and therefore when the Kinges were expelled they ordained a priest whom they called the sacrificing King who should execute those publicke sacrifices which did of right belong vnto the Kings function but for hatred of their kings made him subiect vnto the chiefe Priest or Pontifiex Maximus the which office of Pontifiex Maximus all the heathen Romaine Emperours continually had See Dion c. But that Moses was both the ciuill magistrate and also a priest it maketh very much against himselfe for although we doe grant that Moses was a Priest yet it is most manifest that he was not high Priest but his brother Aaron whome yet to be subiect vnto Moses all men seene in the sacred scriptures do knowe so that nothing can make more for the superioritie of the ciuill magistrate then this example that Aaron being high Priest and head and chiefe of all Priestes was yet subiect to Moses an ordinary Priest Moses was a prophet and not a priest because he had the soueraigntie temporall Likewise what is it to the purpose if that Hely the high Priest was also created secular magistrate for so were all the high Priestes after the returne of the people from Babilon vntill they were conquered by the Romaines and the kingdome was giuen by them vnto Herodes a stranger and Idumean Now seeing we haue aboundantly prooued in generall the superioritie of the ciuill magistrate ouer all men liuing within their dominions both by expresse places of scripture and authorities of auncient fathers and also conuinced the subiection of the high Priest in the olde law vnto the ciuill Prince and clearely shewed Christs kingdom to be spirituall and that he gaue none other to Peter and the rest of the Apostles and their successors and haue fully answered all obiections of the aduersaries I will descende vnto practise and prooue the superioritie of Emperours and Italian Kings ouer the Popes and Bishoppes of Rome by the prescripsion of seauen hundreth yeares after Christ 〈◊〉 kinde of proofe which we Catholickes Romaine exact of the Protestants crying vnto them to shew their successiion But because Pighius the Popes proctor in the secular primacy doth subiect his client vnto the heathen Emperours The Pops subiect to the Emperours and Italian kings I neede fetch my limmitation noe higher then Constantine the greate the first Christian Emperour Now to shew how he banished Bishoppes perhappes will be thought to small purpose because they doe giue this earthly Empire not vnto the Clergy but onely vnto the Bishoppe of Rome as Christs lieuetenant generall in all causes as well spirituall as temporall See for these histories Paul Dia● Platina and Sabellicus But I doe finde that his sonne and successor Constantius did banish Liberius the Bishoppe of Rome because he would not subscribe to the deposition of Athanasius and caused another to be c●osen in his place Moreouer when the Cytie of Rome and the Country of Italy came by conquest into the possession of the Ostrogothes in Anno Domin 483. Liberius Theodoricus the King of the Ostrogothes or of Italy commanded to come before him to Rauenna whether he had transferred the seate of the Empire of Italy leauing the city of Rome in the gouernement of the Senate Symmachus And least some man vnskilfull of antiquities should dreame that it was then the Popes by the donation of Constantine Theodoricus I say summoned before him at Rauenna Symmachus and Laurentius who contended for the Bishopperickes of Rome to the diuision of the whole Cytie I●hn that he as soueraing might determine the controuersy vpon hearing of the matter And afterward when Iustinus Emperour of Constantinople had banished the Arrians out of all his dominions Theodoricus sent Iohn the byshoppe of Rome and their Senatours Embassadours vnto Iustinus willing them in threatning sort to tell the Emperour from him that vnlesse hee did spedily restore to the Arrians theire Churches and suffer them to liue in peace that he would extinguish 〈…〉 Italy They comming to 〈…〉 honorably receiued by him did with 〈…〉 beeing very hoofull for the safetie of themselues and 〈◊〉 countrymen entreat the Emperour gratiously to graunt the ●●nor of their Embassage although it were vniust and to haue regard and compassion of Italy which otherwise would vtterly perish with whose teares the Emperour beeing mooued granted them their request But when the Bishoppe with his associates were returned to Rauenna to make relation vnto the King of the Emperours answere Theodoricus mooued with malice because 〈◊〉 a defender of the Catholicke pietie had receiued him so honorably killed him and his fellowes with painefull imprisonment Then Theodotus annother king of the Ostrogothes sent Agapetus Agapetus the Bishoppe of Rome Embassadour as his subiect vnto Iustinian the Emperour which Iustinian not long after hauing recouered Rome from the Ostrogothes did not by his Lieuetenant but by his Lieuetenant Belsarius his wife spoyle Siluerius Silberius the Bishoppe of Rome of his Bishopprick● Bishoppes robes and putting him in monasticall needes confined him into an out Iland Charging him that he would haue betrayed the gate Asmaria that adioyned vnto his house vnto the Ostrogothes but in deed perhappes there was some other priuie grudge hidden in the Empresse her heart But the manner of the doing doth manifestly declare for how smale Princes Popes were reputed in those daies for Belsarius sending an officer for him the Bishoppe was brought into his bedde Chamber because Belsarius sate by his
any mortall man be soe audacious to pull him out of it And if that no man can excommunicate the Pope because no man is his superiour neyther can any man depose a king because no man is his superiour But the obiection out of Ruffinus his contimation of Eusebius that Constantine the great said vnto the Bishoppes assembled in the counsell of Nice A Place of Ruffinus answered God hath constituted you priestes and hath giuen you power to iudge also of vs and therefore iustly are we iudged by you But what is the vttermost that can be inferred of these wordes then a spirituall iudgement for seeing he maketh them iudges because they are priestes and not princes how can it import any secular power for the name of priest signifieth a man seperat from secular matters and wholly dedicated to heauenly and diuine So that to say that Bishoppes in that they are priestes are iudges ouer Kinges and Emperours in matters touching their crowne and dignitie is or absurde as if a man should say the Apostles had power to remitte and retaine sinnes because they were fishermen But as the Bishoppes shewed themselues farre from claiming any such authoritie by exhibiting vp vnto him as their soueraigne and chiefe iudge billes of complaint one against another So also did Constantine continually practise among them and vpon them his Empyre and soueraigntie So at the counsell at Nice when the definition of faith was presented vnto him by the counsell not the counsell but he did set downe the tēporall punishment to the infringers thereof he protesting that he would banish all men that would not obey and embrace it And so immediatly after he banished Arrius and certaine Bishoppes that refused to subscribe And afterward as we reade in Socrates he made an edict that all bookes of Arrius his doctrine should be burned and who soeuer did conceale any and not bring them forth to the fire should die therefore we also finde in Theodoretus that he banished Eusebius the Bishop of Nicomedia and Th●●gonus the Bishop of Nice because they sought to peruert to the Arianisme certaine Alexandrines and that he wrote thus to the Citizens of Nicomedia If there shall be founde any among you that shall audaciously praise and commend these pestilent Bishoppes their combes shall be soone cut by the execution of the minister of God that is by me So that the office of beeing Gods minister he kept still after he became a Chrstian neyther was it fallen vnto the Church by his embracing of the faith as Pighius saith And although he refused at the beginning of the counsell to heare and determine the accusations that the Bishoppes did put vp vnto him one against another of humility and pollicie because he would not haue that time vnprofitablie spent about priuate quarels which had beene appoynted for the common cause of Christ and his Church and therefore burnt all their billes of complaint yet that he dealt with the correction and punishment of Bishoppes it is apparant by that which I haue alreadie alledged and is made much more manifest by that Theodoretus writeth how the Arrians of Aegypt suborned by money certaine fellowes because if they had done it themselues it would haue smelt to accuse Athanasius vnto Constantine that he had set certaine impositions in Aegypt and giuen the money thereof to one for to raise a commotion in the country whereupon the Emperour sent for him to appeare before him at Constantinople a long iourney for the chiefe patriarch of the East whither he came and cleared himselfe so substantially that saies Tbeodoretus he recouered againe his Church allotted vnto him by God which is as much to say if he could not haue satisfied the Emperour he had lost his Bishoppricke After this his enemies accused him againe vnto Emperour of many greate crimes who thereupon following the honorable custome of this land that all men are tried by their peeres commaunded the Bishoppes of those countries to assemble together in counsell at Cesaria in Syria to heare the matter of Athanasius whither when Athanasius came not because he thought that seeing most that were assembled were his enemies he should finde no iustice there then they hauing gotten more pretences of slaunder accused him vnto the Emperour of audaciousnesse and tyranny See how it was accounted for an audacious part and rebellious for a patriarke not to appeare where the Emperour had commaunded him Neyther did there hope deceiue them for then the Emperour being exasperated did in letters vnto Athanasius both declare his displeasure and also commanded him to appeare at Tyrus for there should be held a counsell of Bishops Socrates reports that he threatned Athanasius that if he would not goe of himselfe he should be fet by force He also wrote vnto the counsell at Tiru● in which letters Theodoretus hath these wordes I haue sent vnto you Dionysius one that hath beene consul for to be president of the assembly that if any man which I thinke will not happen now all little regarding you commaundement shall not be there that there may be one hence from vs that by emperiall commaundement may banish him and teach him marke well these wordes that he must not disobey the order that the king hath appointed for the trying of a trueth But when Athanasius who singularly well acquitted himselfe coulde yet obtaine no iustice there secretly fled vnto the Emperour to Constantinople and put vp an appeale vnto him Constantine thereupon commaunded all the Bishoppes of the counsell to appeare before him at Constantinople with all speede the tenor of the mandate Socrotes setteth downe thus That all ye that held the counsell at Tyrus to immediately hasten to appeare before vs for to shew by deed the sinceritie and vprightnesse of your iudgement before me that is to wit him whome not ye your selues shall deny to be the propper minister of God From what power came this commaundement to a counsell to appare before the Emperour and to render a reason vnto him of their iudgement as vnto the chiefe minister and officer of God But to proceede with our historie when the Bishoppes were come to Constantinople they for feare of assured conuiction gaue ouer their olde slaunders and charged Athanasius with a newe lie that he should say vnto foure Bishoppes that he woulde let the comming of corne from Alexandria vnto Constantinople the which the Emperour ouer lightly beleeuing banished Athanasius into Trier in Germany where was now the Pope to depose the Emperour for banishing wrongfully the greatest Patriarch of the East this was worse then the emprisoning of the Bishop of Apamea by the french king for giuing him ill languages But to returne to our matter Socrates doth write that Athanasius his first troubles beganne because he woulde not receiue into the Church Arrius whome the Emperour did nowe take for a penitent and honest man whereuppon hee thus wrote vnto Athanasius Seeing that you doe nowe vnderstande the tenor of the