as_o we_o never_o go_v about_o to_o arrogate_v to_o ourselves_o that_o infallibility_n or_o absolute_a authority_n which_o we_o take_v away_o from_o you_o but_o if_o you_o will_v have_v speak_v to_o the_o purpose_n you_o shall_v have_v say_v that_o in_o follow_v she_o you_o shall_v soon_o have_v be_v excuse_v than_o in_o cleave_v to_o the_o scripture_n and_o to_o god_n himself_o 63._o whereas_o you_o say_v the_o fearful_a example_n of_o innumerable_a person_n who_o forsake_v the_o church_n upon_o pretence_n of_o her_o error_n have_v fail_v even_o in_o fundamental_a point_n aught_o to_o deter_v all_o christian_n from_o oppose_v she_o in_o any_o one_o doctrine_n or_o practice_n this_o be_v just_a as_o if_o you_o shall_v say_v divers_a man_n have_v fall_v into_o scylla_n with_o go_v too_o far_o from_o charybdis_n be_v sure_a therefore_o you_o keep_v close_o to_o charybdis_n divers_a leave_v prodigality_n have_v fall_v into_o covetousness_n therefore_o be_v you_o constant_a to_o prodigality_n many_o have_v fall_v from_o worship_v god_n perverse_o and_o foolish_o not_o to_o worship_v he_o at_o all_o from_o worship_v many_o god_n to_o worship_v none_o this_o therefore_o aught_o to_o deter_v man_n from_o leave_v superstition_n or_o idolatry_n for_o fear_v of_o fall_v into_o atheism_n and_o impiety_n this_o be_v your_o counsel_n and_o sophistry_n but_o god_n say_v clean_a contrary_n take_v heed_n you_o swerve_v not_o either_o to_o the_o right_a hand_n or_o to_o the_o left_a you_o must_v not_o do_v evil_a that_o good_a may_v come_v thereon_o therefore_o neither_o that_o you_o may_v avoid_v a_o great_a evil_n you_o must_v not_o be_v obstinate_a in_o a_o certain_a error_n for_o fear_v of_o a_o uncertain_a what_o if_o some_o forsake_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v forsake_v fundamental_a truth_n be_v this_o because_o they_o forsake_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n no_o sure_a this_o be_v non_fw-la causa_fw-la pro_fw-la causa_fw-la for_o else_o all_o that_o have_v forsake_v that_o church_n shall_v have_v do_v so_o which_o we_o say_v they_o have_v not_o but_o because_o they_o go_v too_o far_o from_o she_o the_o golden_a mean_n the_o narrow_a way_n be_v hard_o to_o be_v find_v and_o hard_o to_o be_v keep_v hard_o but_o not_o impossible_a hard_o but_o yet_o you_o must_v not_o please_v yourself_o out_o of_o it_o though_o you_o err_v on_o the_o right_a hand_n though_o you_o offend_v on_o the_o mild_a part_n for_o this_o be_v the_o only_a way_n that_o lead_v to_o life_n and_o few_o there_o be_v that_o find_v it_o it_o be_v true_a if_o we_o say_v there_o be_v no_o danger_n in_o be_v of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o there_o be_v danger_n in_o leave_v it_o it_o be_v madness_n to_o persuade_v any_o man_n to_o leave_v it_o but_o we_o protest_v and_o proclaim_v the_o contrary_a and_o that_o we_o have_v very_o little_a hope_n of_o their_o salvation_n who_o either_o out_o of_o negligence_n in_o seek_v the_o truth_n or_o unwillingness_n to_o find_v it_o live_v and_o die_v in_o the_o error_n and_o impiety_n of_o that_o church_n and_o therefore_o can_v but_o conceive_v those_o fear_n to_o be_v most_o foolish_a and_o ridiculous_a which_o persuade_v man_n to_o be_v constant_a in_o one_o way_n to_o hell_n lest_o happy_o if_o they_o leave_v it_o they_o shall_v fall_v into_o another_o 64._o obj._n some_o protestant_n pretend_v to_o reform_v the_o church_n be_v come_v to_o affirm_v that_o she_o perish_v for_o many_o age_n which_o other_o can_v deny_v to_o be_v a_o fundamental_a error_n against_o the_o article_n of_o the_o creed_n i_o believe_v the_o catholic_n church_n and_o affirm_v the_o donatist_n err_v fundamental_o in_o confine_v it_o to_o africa_n to_o this_o i_o answer_v first_o that_o the_o error_n of_o the_o donatist_n be_v not_o that_o they_o hold_v it_o possible_a that_o some_o or_o many_o or_o most_o part_n of_o christendom_n may_v fall_v away_o from_o christianity_n and_o that_o the_o church_n may_v loose_v much_o of_o her_o amplitude_n and_o be_v contract_v to_o a_o narrow_a compass_n in_o comparison_n of_o her_o former_a extent_n which_o be_v prove_v not_o only_o possible_a but_o certain_a by_o irrefragable_a experience_n for_o who_o know_v not_o that_o gentilism_n and_o mahumetism_n man_n wickedness_n deserve_v it_o and_o god_n providence_n permit_v it_o have_v prevail_v to_o the_o utter_a extirpation_n of_o christianity_n upon_o far_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o world_n and_o s._n austin_n when_o he_o be_v out_o of_o the_o heat_n of_o disputation_n confess_v the_o militant_a church_n to_o be_v like_o the_o moon_n sometime_o increase_v and_o sometime_o decrease_a this_o therefore_o be_v no_o error_n in_o the_o donatist_n that_o they_o hold_v it_o possible_a that_o the_o church_n from_o a_o large_a extent_n may_v be_v contradict_v to_o a_o lesser_a or_o that_o they_o hold_v it_o possible_a to_o be_v reduce_v to_o africa_n for_o why_o not_o to_o africa_n then_o as_o well_o as_o within_o these_o few_o age_n you_o pretend_v it_o be_v to_o europe_n but_o their_o error_n be_v that_o they_o hold_v the_o facto_fw-la this_o be_v do_v when_o they_o have_v no_o just_a ground_n or_o reason_n to_o do_v so_o and_o so_o upon_o a_o vain_a pretence_n which_o they_o can_v not_o justify_v separate_v themselves_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o all_o other_o part_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o they_o require_v it_o as_o a_o necessary_a condition_n to_o make_v a_o man_n a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n that_o he_o shall_v be_v of_o their_o communion_n and_o divide_v himself_o from_o all_o other_o communion_n from_o which_o they_o be_v divide_v which_o be_v a_o condition_n both_o unnecessary_a and_o unlawful_a to_o be_v require_v and_o therefore_o the_o exact_v of_o it_o be_v direct_o opposite_a to_o the_o church_n catholicism_n in_o the_o very_a same_o nature_n with_o their_o error_n who_o require_v circumcision_n and_o the_o keep_n of_o the_o law_n of_o moses_n as_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n for_o whosoever_o require_v hard_a or_o heavy_a condition_n of_o man_n than_o god_n require_v of_o they_o he_o it_o be_v that_o be_v proper_o a_o enemy_n of_o the_o church_n universality_n by_o hinder_v either_o man_n or_o country_n from_o adjoin_v themselves_o to_o it_o which_o be_v it_o not_o for_o these_o unnecessary_a and_o therefore_o unlawful_a condition_n in_o probability_n will_v have_v make_v they_o member_n of_o it_o and_o see_v the_o present_a church_n of_o rome_n persuade_v man_n they_o be_v as_o good_a for_o any_o hope_n of_o salvation_n they_o have_v not_o to_o be_v christian_n as_o not_o to_o be_v roman_a catholic_n believe_v nothing_o at_o all_o as_o not_o to_o believe_v all_o which_o they_o impose_v upon_o they_o be_v absolute_o out_o of_o the_o church_n communion_n as_o be_v out_o of_o their_o communion_n or_o be_v in_o any_o other_o whether_o they_o be_v not_o guilty_a of_o the_o same_o crime_n with_o the_o donatist_n and_o those_o zelots_n of_o the_o moysaicall_a law_n i_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o judgement_n of_o those_o that_o understand_v reason_n this_o be_v sufficient_a to_o show_v the_o vanity_n of_o this_o argument_n but_o i_o add_v moreover_o that_o you_o neither_o have_v name_v those_o protestant_n who_o hold_v the_o church_n to_o have_v perish_v for_o many_o age_n who_o perhaps_o hold_v not_o the_o destruction_n but_o the_o corruption_n of_o the_o church_n not_o that_o the_o true_a church_n but_o that_o the_o pure_a church_n perish_v or_o rather_o that_o the_o church_n perish_v not_o from_o its_o life_n and_o existence_n but_o from_o its_o purity_n and_o integrity_n or_o perhaps_o from_o its_o splendour_n and_o visibility_n neither_o have_v you_o prove_v by_o any_o one_o reason_n but_o only_o affirm_v it_o to_o be_v a_o fundamental_a error_n to_o hold_v that_o the_o church_n militant_a may_v possible_o be_v drive_v out_o of_o the_o world_n and_o abolish_v for_o a_o time_n from_o the_o face_n of_o the_o earth_n 69._o ad_fw-la §_o 23._o in_o all_o these_o text_n of_o scripture_n which_o be_v here_o allege_v in_o this_o last_o section_n of_o this_o chapter_n or_o in_o any_o one_o of_o they_o or_o in_o any_o other_o do_v god_n say_v clear_o and_o plain_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o that_o society_n of_o christian_n which_o adhere_v to_o he_o shall_v be_v ever_o the_o infallible_a guide_n of_o faith_n you_o will_v confess_v i_o presume_v he_o do_v not_o and_o will_v pretend_v it_o be_v not_o necessary_a yet_o if_o the_o king_n shall_v tell_v we_o the_o lord-keeper_n shall_v judge_v such_o and_o such_o cause_n but_o shall_v either_o not_o tell_v we_o at_o all_o or_o tell_v we_o but_o doubtful_o who_o shall_v be_v lord-keeper_n shall_v we_o be_v any_o thing_n the_o near_a for_o he_o to_o a_o end_n of_o contention_n nay_o rather_o will_v not_o the_o dissension_n about_o the_o person_n who_o it_o
predetermination_n or_o against_o it_o stephen_n bishop_n of_o rome_n hold_v it_o as_o a_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o apostolic_a tradition_n that_o heretic_n give_v true_a baptism_n other_o there_o be_v and_o they_o as_o good_a catholic_n as_o he_o that_o hold_v that_o this_o be_v neither_o matter_n of_o faith_n nor_o matter_n of_o truth_n justin_n martyr_n and_o irenaeus_n hold_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o millenaries_n as_o a_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o though_o justin_n martyr_v deny_v it_o yet_o you_o i_o hope_v will_v affirm_v that_o some_o good_a christian_n hold_v the_o contrary_n s._n augustine_n i_o be_o sure_a hold_v the_o communicate_v of_o infant_n as_o much_o apostolic_a tradition_n as_o the_o baptise_v of_o they_o whether_o the_o bishop_n and_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n of_o his_o time_n hold_v so_o too_o or_o hold_v otherwise_o i_o desire_v you_o to_o determine_v but_o sure_o i_o be_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n at_o this_o present_a hold_v the_o contrary_a the_o same_o s._n austin_n hold_v it_o no_o matter_n of_o faith_n that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n be_v judge_n of_o appeals_n from_o all_o part_n of_o the_o church_n catholic_n no_o not_o in_o major_a cause_n and_o major_a person_n whether_o the_o bishop_n or_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v then_o hold_v the_o contrary_n do_v you_o resolve_v i_o but_o now_o i_o be_o resolve_v they_o do_v so_o in_o all_o these_o difference_n the_o point_n in_o question_n be_v esteem_v and_o propose_v by_o one_o side_n at_o least_o as_o a_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o by_o the_o other_o reject_v as_o not_o so_o and_o either_o this_o be_v to_o disagree_v in_o matter_n of_o faith_n or_o you_o will_v have_v no_o mean_n to_o show_v that_o we_o do_v disagree_v now_o then_o to_o show_v you_o how_o weak_a and_o sandy_a the_o foundation_n be_v on_o which_o the_o whole_a fabric_n both_o of_o your_o book_n and_o church_n depend_v answer_v i_o brief_o to_o this_o dilemma_n either_o in_o these_o opposition_n one_o of_o the_o opposite_a part_n err_v damnable_o and_o deny_v god_n truth_n sufficient_o propound_v or_o they_o do_v not_o if_o they_o do_v than_o they_o which_o do_v deny_v god_n truth_n sufficient_o propound_v may_v go_v to_o heaven_n and_o than_o you_o be_v rash_a and_o uncharitable_a in_o exclude_v we_o though_o we_o be_v guilty_a of_o this_o fault_n if_o not_o then_o there_o be_v no_o such_o necessity_n that_o of_o two_o disagree_v about_o a_o matter_n of_o faith_n one_o shall_v deny_v god_n truth_n sufficient_o propound_v and_o so_o the_o major_a and_o minor_a of_o your_o argument_n be_v prove_v false_a yet_o though_o they_o be_v as_o true_a as_o gospel_n and_o as_o evident_a as_o mathematical_a principle_n the_o conclusion_n so_o impertinent_a be_v it_o to_o the_o premise_n may_v still_o be_v false_a for_o that_o which_o natural_o issue_v from_o these_o proposition_n be_v not_o therefore_o one_o only_o can_v be_v save_v but_o therefore_o one_o of_o they_o do_v something_o that_o be_v damnable_a but_o with_o what_o logic_n or_o what_o charity_n you_o can_v infer_v either_o as_o the_o immediate_a production_n of_o the_o former_a premise_n or_o as_o a_o corollary_n from_o this_o conclusion_n therefore_o one_o only_o can_v be_v save_v i_o do_v not_o understand_v unless_o you_o will_v pretend_v that_o this_o consequence_n be_v good_a such_o a_o one_o do_v something_o damnable_a therefore_o he_o shall_v certain_o be_v damn_v which_o whether_o it_o be_v not_o to_o overthrow_v the_o article_n of_o our_o faith_n which_o promise_v remission_n of_o sin_n upon_o repentance_n and_o consequent_o to_o ruin_v the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n i_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o pope_n and_o the_o cardinal_n to_o determine_v for_o if_o against_o this_o it_o be_v allege_v that_o no_o man_n can_v repent_v of_o the_o sin_n wherein_o he_o die_v this_o muce_n i_o have_v already_o stop_v by_o show_v that_o if_o it_o be_v a_o sin_n of_o ignorance_n this_o be_v no_o way_n incongruous_a 13._o ad_fw-la 6._o §_o in_o your_o six_o parag._n i_o let_v all_o pass_v save_v only_o this_o that_o a_o persuasion_n that_o man_n of_o different_a religion_n you_o must_v mean_n christian_n of_o different_a opinion_n or_o communion_n may_v be_v save_v be_v a_o most_o pernicious_a heresy_n and_o even_o a_o ground_n of_o atheism_n what_o strange_a extraction_n chemistry_n can_v make_v i_o know_v not_o but_o sure_o i_o be_o he_o that_o by_o reason_n will_v infer_v this_o conclusion_n that_o there_o be_v no_o god_n from_o this_o ground_n that_o god_n will_v save_v man_n in_o different_a religion_n must_v have_v a_o high_a strain_n of_o logic_n than_o you_o or_o i_o have_v hitherto_o make_v show_v of_o in_o my_o apprehension_n the_o other_o part_n of_o the_o contradiction_n that_o there_o be_v a_o god_n shall_v much_o rather_o follow_v from_o it_o and_o i_o say_v and_o will_v maintain_v that_o to_o say_v that_o christian_n of_o different_a opinion_n and_o communion_n such_o i_o mean_v who_o hold_v all_o those_o thing_n that_o be_v simple_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n may_v not_o obtain_v pardon_n for_o the_o error_n wherein_o they_o die_v ignorant_o by_o a_o general_a repentance_n be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v a_o ground_n of_o atheism_n that_o to_o say_v the_o contrary_a be_v to_o cross_v in_o diameter_n a_o main_a article_n of_o our_o creed_n and_o to_o overthrow_v the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n 14._o ad_fw-la 7._o §_o to_o what_o you_o say_v of_o some_o protestant_n that_o hold_v it_o necessary_a to_o be_v able_a to_o prove_v a_o perpetual_a visible_a church_n distinct_a from_o you_o i_o answer_v some_z perhaps_o undertake_v to_o do_v so_o as_o a_o matter_n of_o courtesy_n but_o i_o believe_v you_o will_v be_v much_o to_o seek_v for_o any_o one_o that_o hold_v it_o necessary_a for_o though_o you_o say_v that_o christ_n have_v promise_v there_o shall_v be_v a_o perpetual_a visible_a church_n yet_o you_o yourselves_o do_v not_o pretend_v that_o he_o have_v promise_v there_o shall_v be_v history_n and_o record_n always_o extant_a of_o the_o professor_n of_o it_o in_o all_o age_n nor_o that_o he_o have_v any_o where_o enjoin_v we_o to_o read_v those_o history_n that_o we_o may_v be_v able_a to_o show_v they_o 17._o to_o your_o ensue_a demand_n though_o some_o of_o they_o be_v very_o captious_a and_o ensnare_a yet_o i_o will_v give_v you_o as_o clear_v and_o plain_a and_o ingenuous_a answer_n as_o possible_o i_o can_v 18._o ad_fw-la 11._o §_o to_o the_o first_o then_o about_o the_o perpetuity_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n my_o answer_n be_v that_o i_o believe_v our_o saviour_n ever_o since_o his_o ascension_n have_v have_v in_o some_o place_n or_o other_o a_o visible_a true_a church_n on_o earth_n i_o mean_v a_o company_n of_o man_n that_o profess_v at_o least_o so_o much_o truth_n as_o be_v absolute_o necessary_a for_o their_o salvation_n and_o i_o believe_v that_o there_o will_v be_v somewhere_o or_o other_o such_o a_o church_n to_o the_o world_n end_n but_o the_o contrary_a doctrine_n i_o do_v at_o no_o hand_n believe_v to_o be_v a_o damnable_a heresy_n 19_o ad_fw-la 12._o §_o to_o the_o second_o what_o visible_a church_n there_o be_v before_o luther_n disagree_v from_o the_o roman_a i_o answer_v that_o before_o luther_n there_o be_v many_o visible_a church_n in_o many_o thing_n disagree_v from_o the_o roman_a but_o not_o that_o the_o whole_a catholic_n church_n disagree_v from_o she_o because_o she_o herself_o be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o whole_a though_o much_o corrupt_v and_o to_o undertake_v to_o name_v a_o catholic_n church_n disagree_v from_o she_o be_v to_o make_v she_o no_o part_n of_o it_o which_o we_o do_v not_o nor_o need_v not_o pretend_v and_o for_o man_n agree_v with_o protestant_n in_o all_o point_n we_o will_v then_o produce_v they_o when_o you_o shall_v either_o prove_v it_o necessary_a to_o be_v do_v which_o you_o know_v we_o absolute_o deny_v or_o when_o you_o shall_v produce_v a_o perpetual_a succession_n of_o professor_n 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shall_v see_v what_o will_v come_v of_o it_o assure_v yourself_o you_o have_v a_o wolf_n by_o the_o ear_n if_o you_o say_v they_o be_v you_o overthrow_v your_o own_o conclusion_n and_o say_v that_o church_n divide_v in_o communion_n may_v both_o be_v member_n of_o the_o catholic_n if_o they_o be_v not_o then_o shall_v we_o have_v saint_n and_o martyr_n in_o heaven_n which_o be_v no_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n roman_n church_n as_o for_o irenaeus_n his_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o ruffinus_n his_o abscindere_fw-la ab_fw-la unitate_fw-la corporis_fw-la they_o imply_v no_o more_o but_o this_o at_o the_o most_o that_o victor_n quantum_fw-la in_fw-la se_fw-la fuit_fw-la do_v cut_v they_o off_o from_o the_o external_n communion_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n suppose_v that_o for_o their_o obstinacy_n in_o their_o tradition_n they_o have_v cut_v themselves_o off_o from_o the_o internal_a communion_n of_o it_o but_o that_o this_o sentence_n of_o victor_n be_v ratify_v in_o heaven_n and_o that_o they_o be_v indeed_o cut_v off_o from_o the_o mystical_a body_n of_o christ_n so_o far_o be_v irenaeus_n from_o think_v that_o he_o and_o in_o a_o manner_n all_o the_o other_o bishop_n reprehend_v victor_n for_o pronounce_v this_o sentence_n on_o they_o upon_o a_o cause_n so_o insufficient_a which_o how_o they_o can_v say_v or_o possible_o think_v of_o a_o sentence_n ratify_v by_o god_n in_o heaven_n and_o not_o reprehend_v god_n himself_o i_o desire_v you_o to_o inform_v i_o and_o if_o they_o do_v not_o intend_v to_o reprehend_v the_o sentence_n of_o god_n himself_o together_o with_o victor_n than_o i_o believe_v it_o will_v follow_v unavoidable_o that_o they_o do_v not_o conceive_v nor_o believe_v victor_n sentence_n to_o be_v ratify_v by_o god_n and_o consequent_o do_v not_o believe_v that_o these_o excommunicate_v church_n be_v not_o in_o god_n account_n true_a member_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n ad_fw-la §_o 4._o and_o here_o again_o we_o have_v another_o subterfuge_n by_o a_o verbal_a distinction_n between_o excommunication_n and_o voluntary_a separation_n as_o if_o the_o separation_n which_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n make_v in_o victor_n time_n from_o the_o asian_a church_n be_v not_o a_o voluntary_a separation_n or_o as_o if_o the_o church_n of_o asia_n do_v not_o voluntary_o do_v that_o which_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o their_o separation_n or_o as_o if_o though_o they_o sepated_a not_o themselves_o indeed_o conceive_v the_o cause_n to_o be_v insufficient_a they_o do_v not_o yet_o remain_v voluntary_o separate_v rather_o than_o conform_v themselves_o to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n or_o last_o as_o if_o the_o grecian_n of_o old_a or_o the_o protestant_n of_o late_a may_v not_o pretend_v as_o just_o as_o the_o asian_a church_n that_o their_o separation_n too_o be_v not_o voluntary_o but_o of_o necessity_n for_o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n require_v of_o they_o under_o pain_n of_o excommunication_n such_o condition_n of_o her_o communion_n as_o be_v neither_o necessary_a nor_o lawful_a to_o be_v perform_v ad_fw-la §_o 5._o and_o here_o again_o the_o matter_n be_v straighten_v by_o another_o limitation_n both_o side_n say_v you_o must_v claim_v to_o be_v the_o church_n but_o what_o then_o if_o one_o of_o they_o only_o claim_v though_o vain_o to_o be_v the_o church_n and_o the_o other_o content_a itself_o with_o be_v a_o part_n of_o it_o these_o than_o it_o seem_v for_o any_o thing_n you_o have_v say_v to_o the_o contrary_a may_v be_v both_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o certain_o this_o be_v the_o case_n now_o between_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o for_o aught_o i_o know_v be_v between_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o church_n of_o greece_n for_o i_o believe_v it_o will_v hardly_o be_v prove_v that_o the_o excommunication_n between_o they_o be_v mutual_a nor_o that_o the_o church_n of_o greece_n esteem_v itself_o the_o whole_a church_n and_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n no_o church_n but_o itself_o a_o sound_a member_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o a_o corrupt_a one_o again_o whereas_o you_o say_v the_o father_n speak_v of_o a_o voluntary_a separation_n certain_o they_o speak_v of_o any_o separation_n by_o heretic_n and_o such_o be_v in_o victor_n judgement_n the_o church_n of_o asia_n for_o hold_v a_o opinion_n contrary_a to_o the_o faith_n as_o he_o esteem_v or_o if_o he_o do_v not_o why_o do_v he_o cut_v they_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n but_o the_o true_a difference_n be_v the_o father_n speak_v of_o those_o which_o by_o your_o church_n be_v esteem_v heretic_n and_o be_v so_o whereas_o the_o asian_a church_n be_v by_o victor_n esteem_v heretic_n but_o be_v not_o so_o ad_fw-la §_o 6._o but_o their_o authority_n produce_v show_v no_o more_o than_o what_o i_o have_v show_v that_o the_o church_n be_v â—ut_v one_o in_o exclusion_n of_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n and_o not_o that_o two_o particular_a church_n divide_v by_o mistake_n upon_o some_o overvalue_v difference_n may_v not_o be_v both_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_n ad_fw-la §_o 7._o but_o i_o desire_v you_o to_o tell_v i_o whether_o you_o will_v do_v this_o if_o the_o doctrine_n produce_v and_o confirm_v by_o such_o a_o consent_n of_o father_n happen_v to_o be_v in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n either_o not_o catholic_n or_o absolute_o heretical_a if_o you_o will_v undertake_v this_o you_o shall_v hear_v far_o from_o i_o but_o if_o when_o their_o place_n be_v produce_v you_o will_v pretend_v as_o some_o of_o your_o side_n do_v that_o sure_o they_o be_v corrupt_v have_v neither_o reason_n nor_o show_v of_o reason_n for_o it_o unless_o this_o may_v pass_v for_o one_o as_o perhaps_o it_o may_v where_o reason_n be_v scarce_o that_o they_o be_v against_o your_o doctrine_n or_o if_o you_o will_v say_v they_o be_v to_o be_v interpret_v according_a to_o the_o pleasure_n of_o your_o church_n whether_o their_o word_n will_v bear_v it_o or_o no_o then_o i_o shall_v but_o lose_v my_o labour_n for_o this_o be_v not_o to_o try_v your_o church_n by_o the_o father_n but_o the_o father_n by_o your_o church_n the_o doctrine_n which_o i_o undertake_v to_o justify_v by_o a_o great_a consent_n of_o father_n than_o here_o you_o produce_v for_o instance_n shall_v be_v these_o 1._o that_o god_n election_n suppose_v prescience_n of_o man_n faith_n and_o perseverance_n 2._o that_o god_n do_v not_o predetermine_v man_n to_o all_o their_o action_n 3._o that_o the_o pope_n have_v no_o power_n in_o temporalty_n over_o king_n either_o direct_o or_o indirect_o 4._o that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n may_v err_v in_o his_o public_a determination_n of_o matter_n of_o faith_n 5._o that_o the_o b._n virgin_n be_v guilty_a of_o original_a sin_n 6._o that_o the_o b._n virgin_n be_v guilty_a of_o actual_a sin_n 7._o that_o the_o communion_n be_v to_o be_v administer_v to_o the_o laity_n in_o both_o kind_n 8._o that_o the_o read_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v to_o be_v deny_v to_o no_o man_n 9_o that_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o millenaries_n be_v true_a 10._o that_o the_o eucharist_n be_v to_o be_v administer_v to_o infant_n 11._o that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n remain_v in_o the_o eucharist_n of_o her_o consecration_n 12._o that_o the_o soul_n of_o the_o saint_n depart_v enjoy_v not_o the_o vision_n of_o god_n before_o the_o last_o day_n 13._o that_o at_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n all_o the_o saint_n shall_v past_o through_o a_o purge_a fire_n all_o these_o proposition_n be_v hold_v by_o your_o church_n either_o heretical_a or_o at_o least_o not_o catholical_a and_o yet_o in_o this_o promise_n of_o you_o you_o have_v undertake_v to_o believe_v they_o as_o firm_o as_o you_o now_o do_v this_o that_o two_o divide_a society_n can_v be_v both_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n ad_fw-la §_o 8._o be_v it_o not_o then_o the_o answerers_n part_n to_o show_v that_o the_o proof_n pretend_v be_v indeed_o no_o proof_n and_o do_v not_o he_o prove_v no_o proof_n at_o least_o in_o your_o mouth_n who_o undertake_v to_o show_v that_o a_o equal_a or_o great_a number_n of_o the_o very_a same_o witness_n be_v reject_v by_o yourselves_o in_o many_o other_o thing_n either_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o father_n in_o any_o age_n or_o age_n be_v infallible_a and_o then_o you_o be_v to_o reject_v it_o in_o nothing_o or_o it_o be_v not_o so_o and_o then_o you_o be_v not_o to_o urge_v it_o in_o any_o thing_n as_o if_o the_o father_n testimony_n against_o we_o be_v sword_n and_o spear_n and_o against_o you_o bulrush_n ad_fw-la §_o 9_o in_o effect_n as_o if_o you_o shall_v say_v if_o you_o answer_v not_o as_o i_o please_v i_o will_v dispute_v no_o long_o but_o you_o remember_v the_o proverb_n will_v think_v
diligence_n to_o find_v the_o truth_n do_v yet_o miss_v of_o it_o and_o fall_v into_o error_n there_o be_v no_o danger_n in_o it_o they_o that_o err_v and_o they_o that_o do_v not_o err_v may_v both_o be_v save_v so_o that_o those_o place_n which_o contain_v thing_n necessary_a and_o wherein_o error_n be_v dangerous_a need_v no_o infallible_a interpreter_n because_o they_o be_v plain_a and_o those_o that_o be_v obscure_a need_n none_o because_o they_o contain_v not_o thing_n necessary_a neither_o be_v error_n in_o they_o dangerous_a the_o lawmaker_n speak_v in_o the_o law_n i_o grant_v it_o be_v no_o more_o easy_o understand_v than_o the_o law_n itself_o for_o his_o speech_n be_v nothing_o else_o but_o the_o law_n i_o grant_v it_o very_o necessary_a that_o beside_o the_o lawmaker_n speak_v in_o the_o law_n there_o shall_v be_v other_o judge_n to_o determine_v civil_a and_o criminal_a controversy_n and_o to_o give_v every_o man_n that_o justice_n which_o the_o law_n allow_v he_o but_o your_o argument_n draw_v from_o hence_o to_o show_v a_o necessity_n of_o a_o visible_a judge_n in_o controversy_n of_o religion_n i_o say_v be_v sophistical_a and_o that_o for_o many_o reason_n 14._o first_o because_o the_o variety_n of_o civil_a case_n be_v infinite_a and_o therefore_o there_o can_v be_v possible_o law_n enough_o provide_v for_o the_o determination_n of_o they_o and_o therefore_o there_o must_v be_v a_o judge_n to_o supply_v out_o of_o the_o principle_n of_o reason_n the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o law_n where_o it_o be_v defective_a but_o the_o scripture_n we_o say_v be_v a_o perfect_a rule_n of_o faith_n and_o therefore_o need_v no_o supply_n of_o the_o defect_n of_o it_o 15._o second_o to_o execute_v the_o letter_n of_o the_o law_n according_a to_o rigour_n will_v be_v many_o time_n unjust_a and_o therefore_o there_o be_v need_n of_o a_o judge_n to_o moderate_v it_o whereof_o in_o religion_n there_o be_v no_o use_n at_o all_o 16._o three_o in_o civil_a and_o criminal_a cause_n the_o party_n have_v for_o the_o most_o part_n so_o much_o interest_n and_o very_o often_o so_o little_a honesty_n that_o they_o will_v not_o submit_v to_o a_o law_n though_o never_o so_o plain_a if_o it_o be_v against_o they_o or_o will_v not_o see_v it_o to_o be_v against_o they_o though_o it_o be_v so_o never_o so_o plain_o whereas_o if_o man_n be_v honest_a and_o the_o law_n be_v plain_a and_o extend_v to_o all_o case_n there_o will_v be_v little_a need_n of_o judge_n now_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n when_o the_o question_n be_v whether_o every_o man_n be_v a_o fit_a judge_n and_o chooser_n for_o himself_o we_o suppose_v man_n honest_a and_o such_o as_o understand_v the_o difference_n between_o a_o moment_n and_o eternity_n and_o such_o man_n we_o conceive_v will_v think_v it_o high_o concern_v they_o to_o be_v of_o the_o true_a religion_n but_o nothing_o at_o all_o that_o this_o or_o that_o religion_n shall_v be_v the_o true_a and_o then_o we_o suppose_v that_o all_o the_o necessary_a point_n of_o religion_n be_v plain_a and_o easy_a and_o consequent_o every_o man_n in_o this_o cause_n to_o be_v a_o competent_a judge_n for_o himself_o because_o it_o concern_v himself_o to_o judge_v right_a as_o much_o as_o eternal_a happiness_n be_v worth_a and_o if_o through_o his_o own_o default_n he_o judge_v amiss_o he_o alone_o shall_v suffer_v for_o it_o 17._o four_o in_o civil_a controversy_n we_o be_v oblige_v only_o to_o external_a passive_a obedience_n and_o not_o to_o a_o internal_a and_o active_a we_o be_v bind_v to_o obey_v the_o sentence_n of_o the_o judge_n or_o not_o to_o resist_v it_o but_o not_o always_o to_o believe_v it_o just_a but_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n such_o a_o judge_n be_v require_v who_o we_o shall_v be_v oblige_v to_o believe_v to_o have_v judge_v right_o so_o that_o in_o civil_a controversy_n every_o honest_a understand_a man_n be_v fit_a to_o be_v a_o judge_n but_o in_o religion_n none_o but_o he_o that_o be_v infallible_a 18._o five_o in_o civil_a cause_n there_o be_v mean_n and_o power_n when_o the_o judge_n have_v decree_v to_o compel_v man_n to_o obey_v his_o sentence_n otherwise_o i_o believe_v law_n alone_o will_v be_v to_o as_o much_o purpose_n for_o the_o end_n of_o difference_n as_o law_n and_o judge_n both_o but_o all_o the_o power_n in_o the_o world_n be_v neither_o fit_a to_o convince_v nor_o able_a to_o compel_v a_o man_n conscience_n to_o consent_v to_o any_o thing_n worldly_n terror_n may_v prevail_v so_o far_o as_o to_o make_v man_n profess_v a_o religion_n which_o they_o believe_v not_o such_o man_n i_o mean_v who_o know_v not_o that_o there_o be_v a_o heaven_n provide_v for_o martyr_n and_o a_o hell_n for_o those_o that_o dissemble_v such_o truth_n as_o be_v necessary_a to_o be_v profess_v but_o to_o force_v either_o any_o man_n to_o believe_v what_o he_o believe_v not_o or_o any_o honest_a man_n to_o dissemble_v what_o he_o do_v believe_v if_o god_n command_v he_o to_o profess_v it_o or_o to_o profess_v what_o he_o do_v not_o believe_v all_o the_o power_n in_o the_o world_n be_v too_o weak_a with_o all_o the_o power_n of_o hell_n to_o assist_v they_o 19_o six_o in_o civil_a controversy_n the_o case_n can_v be_v so_o put_v but_o there_o may_v be_v a_o judge_n to_o end_v it_o who_o be_v not_o a_o party_n in_o controversy_n of_o religion_n it_o be_v in_o a_o manner_n impossible_a to_o be_v avoid_v but_o the_o judge_n must_v be_v a_o party_n for_o this_o must_v be_v the_o first_o whether_o he_o be_v a_o judge_n or_o no_o and_o in_o that_o he_o must_v be_v a_o party_n sure_o i_o be_o the_o pope_n in_o the_o controversy_n of_o our_o time_n be_v a_o chief_a party_n for_o it_o high_o concern_v he_o even_o as_o much_o as_o his_o popedom_n be_v worth_a not_o to_o yield_v any_o one_o point_n of_o his_o religion_n to_o be_v erroneous_a and_o he_o be_v a_o man_n subject_n to_o like_a passion_n with_o other_o man_n and_o therefore_o we_o may_v just_o decline_v his_o sentence_n for_o fear_v temporal_a respect_n shall_v either_o blind_v his_o judgement_n or_o make_v he_o pronounce_v against_o it_o 20._o seven_o in_o civil_a controversy_n it_o be_v impossible_a titius_n shall_v hold_v the_o land_n in_o question_n and_o sempronius_n too_o and_o therefore_o either_o the_o plaintiff_n must_v injure_v the_o defendant_n by_o disquiet_v his_o possession_n or_o the_o defendant_n wrong_v the_o plaintiff_n by_o keep_v his_o right_n from_o he_o but_o in_o controversy_n of_o religion_n the_o case_n be_v otherwise_o i_o may_v hold_v my_o opinion_n and_o do_v you_o no_o wrong_n and_o you_o you_o and_o do_v i_o none_o nay_o we_o may_v both_o of_o we_o hold_v our_o opinion_n and_o yet_o do_v ourselves_o no_o harm_n provide_v the_o difference_n be_v not_o touch_v any_o thing_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o that_o we_o love_v truth_n so_o well_o as_o to_o be_v diligent_a to_o inform_v our_o conscience_n and_o constant_a in_o follow_v it_o 21._o eight_o for_o the_o end_n of_o civil_a controversy_n who_o do_v not_o see_v it_o be_v absolute_o necessary_a that_o not_o only_a judge_n shall_v be_v appoint_v but_o that_o it_o shall_v be_v know_v and_o unquestioned_a who_o they_o be_v thus_o all_o the_o judge_n of_o our_o land_n be_v know_v man_n know_v to_o be_v judge_n and_o no_o man_n can_v doubt_v or_o question_n but_o these_o be_v the_o men._n otherwise_o if_o it_o be_v a_o disputable_a thing_n who_o be_v these_o judge_n and_o they_o have_v no_o certain_a warrant_n for_o their_o authority_n but_o only_o some_o topical_a congruity_n will_v not_o any_o man_n say_v such_o judge_n in_o all_o likelihood_n will_v rather_o multiply_v controversy_n then_o end_v they_o 22._o nine_o and_o last_o for_o the_o decide_n of_o civil_a controversy_n man_n may_v appoint_v themselves_o a_o judge_n but_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n this_o office_n may_v be_v give_v to_o none_o but_o who_o god_n have_v design_v for_o it_o who_o do_v not_o always_o give_v we_o those_o thing_n which_o we_o conceive_v most_o expedient_a for_o ourselves_o 23._o so_o likewise_o if_o our_o saviour_n the_o king_n of_o heaven_n have_v intend_v that_o all_o controversy_n in_o religion_n shall_v be_v by_o some_o visible_a judge_n final_o determine_v who_o can_v doubt_v but_o in_o plain_a term_n he_o will_v have_v express_v himself_o about_o this_o matter_n he_o will_v have_v say_v plain_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n i_o have_v appoint_v to_o decide_v all_o emergent_a controversy_n for_o that_o our_o saviour_n design_v the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n to_o this_o office_n and_o yet_o will_v not_o say_v so_o nor_o cause_n it_o to_o be_v write_v ad_fw-la rei_fw-la memoriam_fw-la by_o any_o of_o the_o evangelist_n or_o apostle_n so_o much_o as_o once_o but_o leave_v it_o to_o
you_o know_v all_o protestant_n with_o one_o consent_n affirm_v it_o to_o be_v false_a and_o therefore_o without_o proof_n to_o take_v it_o for_o grant_v be_v to_o beg_v the_o question_n 4._o that_o suppose_v luther_n and_o they_o which_o do_v first_o separate_v from_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v guilty_a of_o schism_n it_o be_v certain_o consequent_a that_o all_o who_o persist_v in_o this_o division_n must_v be_v so_o likewise_o which_o be_v not_o so_o certain_a as_o you_o pretend_v for_o they_o which_o alter_v without_o necessary_a cause_n the_o present_a government_n of_o any_o state_n civil_a or_o ecclesiastical_a do_v commit_v a_o great_a fault_n whereof_o notwithstanding_o they_o may_v be_v innocent_a who_o continue_v this_o alteration_n and_o to_o the_o utmost_a of_o their_o power_n oppose_v a_o change_n though_o to_o the_o former_a state_n when_o continuance_n of_o time_n have_v once_o settle_v the_o present_a thus_o have_v i_o know_v some_o of_o your_o own_o church_n condemn_v the_o low-country-man_n who_o first_o revolt_v from_o the_o king_n of_o spain_n of_o the_o sin_n of_o rebellion_n yet_o absolve_v they_o from_o it_o who_o now_o be_v of_o your_o religion_n there_o be_v yet_o faithful_a maintainer_n of_o the_o common_a liberty_n against_o the_o pretence_n of_o the_o king_n of_o spain_n 5._o that_o all_o those_o which_o a_o christian_a be_v to_o esteem_v neighbour_n do_v concur_v to_o make_v one_o company_n which_o be_v the_o church_n which_o be_v false_a for_o a_o christian_a be_v to_o esteem_v those_o his_o neighbour_n who_o be_v not_o member_n of_o the_o true_a church_n 6._o that_o all_o the_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n be_v by_o charity_n unite_v into_o one_o mystical_a body_n which_o be_v manifest_o untrue_a for_o many_o of_o they_o have_v no_o charity_n 7._o that_o the_o catholic_n church_n signify_v one_o company_n of_o faithful_a people_n which_o be_v repugnant_a to_o your_o own_o ground_n for_o you_o require_v not_o true_a faith_n but_o only_o the_o profession_n of_o it_o to_o make_v man_n member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n 8._o that_o every_o heretic_n be_v a_o schismatic_a which_o you_o must_v acknowledge_v false_a in_o those_o who_o though_o they_o deny_v or_o doubt_v of_o some_o point_n profess_v by_o your_o church_n and_o so_o be_v heretic_n yet_o continue_v still_o in_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n 9_o that_o all_o the_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n must_v of_o necessity_n be_v unite_v in_o external_a communion_n which_o though_o it_o be_v much_o to_o be_v desire_v it_o be_v so_o yet_o certain_o can_v be_v perpetual_o true_a for_o a_o man_n unjust_o excommunicate_v be_v not_o in_o the_o church_n communion_n yet_o he_o be_v still_o a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n and_o divers_a time_n it_o have_v happen_v as_o in_o the_o case_n of_o chrisostom_n and_o epiphanius_n that_o particular_a man_n and_o particular_a church_n have_v upon_o a_o overvalue_v difference_n either_o renounce_v communion_n mutual_o or_o one_o of_o they_o separate_v from_o the_o other_o and_o yet_o both_o have_v continue_v member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n these_o thing_n be_v in_o those_o seven_o section_n either_o say_v or_o suppose_v by_o you_o untrue_o without_o all_o show_n or_o pretence_n of_o proof_n the_o rest_n be_v a_o impertinent_a common_a place_n wherein_o protestant_n and_o the_o cause_n in_o hand_n be_v absolute_o unconcern_v and_o therefore_o i_o pass_v to_o the_o eight_o section_n 10._o ad._n §_o 8._o here_o you_o obtrude_v upon_o we_o a_o double_a fallacy_n one_o in_o suppose_v and_o take_v for_o grant_v that_o whatsoever_o be_v affirm_v by_o three_o father_n must_v be_v true_a whereas_o yourselves_o make_v no_o scruple_n of_o condemn_v many_o thing_n of_o falsehood_n which_o yet_o be_v maintain_v by_o more_o than_o thrice_o three_o father_n another_o in_o pretend_v their_o word_n to_o be_v speak_v absolute_o which_o by_o they_o be_v limit_v and_o restrain_v to_o some_o particular_a case_n thus_o the_o word_n of_o s._n austin_n cap._n 11._o lib._n 2._o cont_n parm._n that_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n to_o divide_v unity_n be_v not_o speak_v absolute_o that_o there_o never_o be_v nor_o can_v be_v any_o necessity_n to_o divide_v unity_n which_o only_o be_v for_o your_o purpose_n but_o only_o in_o such_o a_o special_a case_n as_o he_o there_o set_v down_o that_o be_v when_o good_a man_n tolerate_v bad_a man_n which_o can_v do_v they_o no_o spiritual_a hurt_n to_o the_o intent_n they_o may_v not_o be_v separate_v from_o those_o who_o be_v spiritual_o good_a then_o say_v he_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n to_o divide_v unity_n which_o very_a word_n do_v clear_o give_v we_o to_o understand_v that_o it_o may_v fall_v out_o as_o it_o do_v in_o our_o case_n that_o we_o can_v keep_v unity_n with_o bad_a man_n without_o spiritual_a hurt_n i._n e._n without_o partake_v with_o they_o in_o their_o impiety_n and_o that_o then_o there_o be_v a_o necessity_n to_o divide_v unity_n from_o they_o i_o mean_v to_o break_v off_o conjunction_n with_o they_o in_o their_o impiety_n which_o that_o it_o be_v s._n augustine_n mind_n it_o be_v most_o evident_a out_o of_o the_o 21._o c._n of_o the_o same_o book_n where_o to_o parmenian_a demand_v how_o can_v a_o man_n remain_v pure_a be_v join_v with_o those_o that_o be_v corrupt_v he_o answer_v very_o true_a this_o be_v not_o possible_a if_o he_o be_v join_v with_o they_o that_o be_v if_o he_o commit_v any_o evil_n with_o they_o or_o favour_v they_o which_o do_v commit_v it_o but_o if_o he_o do_v neither_o of_o these_o he_o be_v not_o join_v with_o they_o and_o present_o after_o these_o two_o thing_n retain_v will_v keep_v such_o man_n pure_a and_o uncorrupted_a that_o be_v neither_o do_v ill_a nor_o approve_v it_o and_o therefore_o see_v you_o impose_v upon_o all_o man_n of_o your_o communion_n a_o necessity_n of_o do_v or_o at_o least_o approve_v many_o thing_n unlawful_a certain_o there_o lie_v upon_o we_o a_o unavoidable_a necessity_n of_o divide_v unity_n either_o with_o you_o or_o with_o god_n and_o whether_o of_o these_o be_v rather_o to_o be_v do_v be_v you_o judge_n 11._o iraeneus_n also_o say_v not_o simple_o which_o only_o will_v do_v you_o service_n there_o can_v possible_o be_v any_o so_o important_a reformation_n as_o to_o justify_v a_o separation_n from_o they_o who_o will_v not_o reform_v but_o only_o they_o can_v make_v any_o corruption_n so_o great_a as_o be_v the_o pernitiousness_n of_o a_o schism_n now_o they_o here_o be_v a_o relative_a and_o have_v a_o antecedent_n express_v in_o iraeneus_n which_o if_o you_o have_v be_v please_v to_o take_v notice_n of_o you_o will_v easy_o have_v see_v that_o what_o irenaeus_n say_v fall_v heavy_a upon_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n but_o touch_v protestant_n nothing_o at_o all_o for_o the_o man_n he_o speak_v of_o be_v such_o as_o propter_fw-la modicas_fw-la &_o quaslibet_fw-la causas_fw-la for_o trifle_v or_o small_a cause_n divide_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n such_o as_o speak_v of_o peace_n and_o make_v war_n such_o as_o strain_v at_o gnat_n and_o swallow_v camel_n and_o these_o say_v he_o can_v make_v no_o reformation_n of_o any_o such_o importance_n as_o to_o countervail_v the_o danger_n of_o a_o division_n now_o see_v the_o cause_n of_o our_o separation_n from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v as_o we_o pretend_v and_o be_v ready_a to_o justify_v because_o we_o will_v not_o be_v partaker_n with_o she_o in_o superstition_n idolatry_n impiety_n and_o most_o cruel_a tyranny_n both_o upon_o the_o body_n and_o soul_n of_o man_n who_o can_v say_v that_o the_o cause_n of_o our_o separation_n may_v be_v just_o esteem_v modicae_fw-la &_o quaelibet_fw-la causae_fw-la on_o the_o other_o side_n see_v the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n who_o be_v contemporary_a to_o irenaeus_n do_v as_o much_o as_o in_o he_o lay_v cut_v off_o from_o the_o church_n unity_n many_o great_a church_n for_o not_o conform_v to_o he_o in_o a_o indifferent_a matter_n upon_o a_o difference_n non_fw-fr de_fw-fr catholico_n dogmate_n sed_fw-la de_fw-la ritu_fw-la vel_fw-la ritus_fw-la potiùs_fw-la tempore_fw-la not_o about_o any_o catholic_n doctrine_n but_o only_o a_o ceremony_n or_o rather_o about_o the_o time_n of_o observe_v it_o so_o petavius_n value_v it_o which_o be_v just_o all_o one_o as_o if_o the_o church_n of_o france_n shall_v excommunicate_v those_o of_o their_o own_o religion_n in_o england_n for_o not_o keep_v christmas_n upon_o the_o same_o day_n with_o they_o and_o see_v he_o be_v reprehend_v sharp_o and_o bitter_o for_o it_o by_o most_o of_o the_o bishop_n of_o the_o world_n as_o 2._o as_o euseb_n hist_o l._n 5._o c._n 24._o perron_n replic_n l._n 3._o c._n 2._o eusebius_n testify_v and_o as_o cardinal_n perron_n though_o mince_v the_o matter_n yet_o confess_v by_o this_o very_a irenaeus_n himself_o
in_o particular_a admonish_v that_o for_o so_o small_a a_o cause_n propter_fw-la tam_fw-la modicam_fw-la causam_fw-la he_o shall_v not_o have_v cut_v off_o so_o many_o province_n from_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n and_o last_o see_v the_o eccesiastical_a story_n of_o those_o time_n mention_n not_o other_o notable_a example_n of_o any_o such_o schismatical_a presumption_n but_o this_o of_o victor_n certain_o we_o have_v great_a inducement_n to_o imagine_v that_o irenaeus_n in_o this_o place_n by_o you_o quote_v have_v a_o special_a aim_n at_o the_o bishop_n and_o church_n of_o rome_n once_o this_o i_o be_o sure_a of_o that_o the_o place_n fit_v he_o and_o many_o of_o his_o successor_n as_o well_o as_o if_o it_o have_v be_v make_v purposely_o for_o they_o and_o this_o also_o that_o he_o which_o find_v fault_n with_o they_o who_o separate_v upon_o small_a cause_n imply_v clear_o that_o he_o conceive_v their_o might_n be_v such_o cause_n as_o be_v great_a and_o sufficient_a and_o that_o then_o a_o reformation_n be_v to_o be_v make_v notwithstanding_o any_o danger_n of_o division_n that_o may_v ensue_v upon_o it_o 12._o last_o s._n denis_n of_o alexandria_n say_v indeed_o and_o very_o well_o that_o all_o thing_n shall_v be_v rather_o endure_v than_o we_o shall_v consent_v to_o the_o division_n of_o the_o church_n i_o will_v add_v rather_o than_o consent_v to_o the_o continuation_n of_o the_o division_n if_o it_o may_v be_v remedy_v but_o then_o i_o be_o to_o tell_v you_o that_o he_o say_v not_o all_o thing_n shall_v rather_o be_v do_v but_o only_o all_o thing_n shall_v rather_o be_v endure_v or_o suffer_v wherein_o he_o speak_v not_o of_o the_o evil_a of_o sin_n but_o of_o pain_n and_o misery_n not_o of_o tolerate_v either_o error_n or_o sin_n in_o other_o though_o that_o may_v be_v lawful_a much_o less_o of_o join_v with_o other_o for_o quietness_n sake_n which_o only_o be_v to_o your_o purpose_n in_o the_o profession_n of_o error_n and_o practice_n of_o sin_n but_o of_o suffer_v any_o affliction_n nay_o even_o martyrdom_n in_o our_o own_o person_n rather_o than_o consent_v to_o the_o division_n of_o the_o church_n omnia_fw-la incommoda_fw-la so_o your_o own_o christophorson_n enforce_v by_o the_o circumstance_n of_o the_o place_n translate_v dionysius_n his_o word_n all_o misery_n shall_v rather_o be_v endure_v than_o we_o shall_v consent_v to_o the_o church_n division_n 13._o ad_fw-la §_o 9_o in_o this_o paragraph_n you_o tell_v we_o first_o that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o total_a deficiency_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n maintain_v by_o many_o chief_a protestant_n imply_v in_o it_o vast_a absurdity_n or_o rather_o sacrilegious_a blasphemy_n answ_n but_o neither_o do_v the_o protestant_n allege_v by_o you_o maintain_v the_o deficiency_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n but_o only_o of_o the_o church_n visibility_n or_o of_o the_o church_n as_o it_o be_v visible_a neither_o do_v they_o hold_v that_o the_o visible_a church_n have_v fail_v total_o from_o its_o essence_n but_o only_o from_o its_o purity_n and_o that_o it_o fall_v into_o many_o corruption_n but_o yet_o not_o to_o nothing_o you_o say_v second_o that_o the_o reason_n which_o cast_v they_o upon_o this_o wicked_a doctrine_n be_v a_o desperate_a voluntary_a necessity_n because_o they_o be_v resolve_v not_o to_o acknowledge_v the_o roman_a to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n and_o be_v convince_v by_o all_o manner_n of_o evidence_n that_o for_o diverse_a age_n before_o luther_n there_o be_v no_o other_o but_o this_o be_v not_o to_o dispute_v but_o to_o divine_a and_o take_v upon_o you_o the_o property_n of_o god_n which_o be_v to_o know_v the_o heart_n of_o men._n for_o why_o i_o pray_v may_v not_o the_o reason_n hereof_o rather_o be_v because_o they_o be_v convince_v by_o all_o manner_n of_o evidence_n as_o scripture_n reason_n antiquity_n that_o all_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o the_o world_n but_o above_o all_o the_o roman_a have_v degenerate_v from_o the_o purity_n of_o the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n and_o thereupon_o do_v conclude_v there_o be_v no_o visible_a church_n mean_v by_o no_o church_n none_o free_a from_o corruption_n and_o conformable_a in_o all_o thing_n to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o christ_n 14._o ad_fw-la §_o 10._o neither_o be_v there_o any_o repugnance_n but_o in_o word_n only_o between_o these_o as_o you_o be_v please_v to_o style_v they_o exterminate_v spirit_n and_o those_o other_o who_o out_o of_o courtesy_n you_o entitle_v in_o your_o 10._o §_o more_o moderate_a protestant_n for_o these_o affirm_v the_o perpetual_a visibility_n of_o the_o church_n yet_o neither_o deny_v nor_o doubt_n of_o she_o be_v subject_a to_o manifold_a and_o grievous_a corruption_n and_o those_o of_o such_o a_o nature_n as_o be_v they_o not_o mitigate_v by_o invincible_a or_o at_o least_o a_o very_a probable_a ignorance_n none_o subject_a to_o they_o can_v be_v save_v and_o they_o on_o the_o other_o side_n deny_v the_o church_n visibility_n yet_o plain_o affirm_v that_o they_o conceive_v very_o good_a hope_n of_o the_o salvation_n of_o many_o of_o their_o ignorant_a and_o honest_a forefather_n thus_o declare_v plain_o though_o in_o word_n they_o deny_v the_o visibility_n of_o the_o true_a church_n yet_o their_o meaning_n be_v not_o to_o deny_v the_o perpetuity_n but_o the_o perpetual_a purity_n and_o incorruption_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n 17._o ad_fw-la §_o 11._o you_o ask_v to_o what_o congregation_n shall_v a_o man_n have_v recourse_n for_o the_o affair_n of_o his_o soul_n if_o upon_o earth_n there_o be_v no_o visible_a church_n of_o christ_n answ_n if_o some_o one_o christian_a live_v alone_o among_o pagan_n in_o some_o country_n remote_a from_o christendom_n shall_v we_o conceive_v it_o impossible_a for_o this_o man_n to_o be_v save_v because_o he_o can_v have_v recourse_n to_o any_o congregation_n for_o the_o affair_n of_o his_o soul_n will_v it_o not_o be_v sufficient_a for_o such_o a_o one_o salvation_n to_o know_v the_o doctrine_n of_o christ_n and_o live_v according_a to_o it_o 18._o obj._n to_o imagine_v a_o company_n of_o man_n believe_v one_o thing_n in_o their_o heart_n and_o with_o their_o mouth_n profess_v the_o contrary_n as_o they_o must_v be_v suppose_v to_o do_v for_o if_o they_o have_v profess_v what_o they_o believe_v they_o will_v have_v become_v visible_a be_v to_o dream_v of_o a_o damn_a crew_n of_o dissemble_a sycophant_n but_o not_o to_o conceive_v aright_o of_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n answ_n what_o be_v this_o to_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o church_n may_v not_o the_o church_n be_v invisible_a and_o yet_o these_o that_o be_v of_o it_o profess_v their_o faith_n no_o say_v you_o their_o profession_n will_v make_v they_o visible_a very_o true_a visible_a in_o the_o place_n where_o and_o in_o the_o time_n when_o they_o live_v and_o to_o those_o person_n unto_o who_o they_o have_v necessary_a occasion_n to_o make_v their_o profession_n but_o not_o visible_a to_o all_o or_o any_o great_a or_o considerable_a part_n of_o the_o world_n while_o they_o live_v much_o less_o conspicuous_a to_o all_o age_n after_o they_o now_o it_o be_v a_o church_n thus_o illustrious_o and_o conspicuous_o visible_a that_o you_o require_v by_o who_o splendour_n all_o man_n may_v be_v direct_v and_o draw_v to_o repair_v to_o she_o for_o the_o affair_n of_o their_o soul_n neither_o be_v it_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o church_n absolute_o but_o this_o degree_n of_o it_o which_o the_o most_o rigid_a protestant_n deny_v which_o be_v plain_a enough_o out_o of_o the_o place_n of_o napper_n cite_v by_o you_o in_o your_o 9_o part._n of_o this_o chap_a where_o his_o word_n be_v god_n have_v withdraw_v his_o visible_a church_n from_o open_a assembly_n to_o the_o heart_n of_o particular_a godly_a man_n and_o this_o church_n which_o have_v not_o open_a assembly_n he_o call_v the_o latent_fw-la and_o invisible_a church_n now_o i_o hope_v papist_n in_o england_n will_v be_v very_o apt_a to_o grant_v man_n may_v be_v so_o far_a latent_fw-la and_o invisible_a as_o not_o to_o profess_v their_o faith_n in_o open_a assembly_n nor_o to_o proclaim_v it_o to_o all_o the_o world_n and_o yet_o not_o deny_v nor_o dissemble_v it_o nor_o deserve_v to_o be_v esteem_v a_o damn_a crew_n of_o dissemble_a sycophant_n obj._n but_o preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n can_v but_o make_v a_o church_n visible_a and_o these_o be_v inseparable_a note_n of_o the_o church_n i_o answer_v they_o be_v so_o far_o inseparable_a that_o wheresoever_o they_o be_v there_o a_o church_n be_v but_o not_o so_o but_o that_o in_o some_o case_n there_o may_v be_v a_o church_n where_o these_o note_n be_v not_o again_o these_o note_n will_v make_v the_o church_n visible_a but_o to_o who_o certain_o not_o to_o all_o man_n nor_o to_o most_o man_n but_o to_o they_o only_o to_o who_o
church_n to_o communicate_v in_o her_o corruption_n or_o you_o suppose_v her_o communion_n uncorrupted_a if_o the_o former_a and_o yet_o will_v take_v for_o grant_v that_o all_o be_v schismatic_n that_o leave_v her_o communion_n though_o it_o be_v corrupt_v you_o beg_v the_o question_n in_o your_o proposition_n if_o the_o latter_a you_o beg_v the_o question_n in_o your_o supposition_n for_o protestant_n you_o know_v be_v peremptory_a and_o unanimous_a in_o the_o denial_n of_o both_o these_o thing_n both_o that_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n be_v then_o uncorrupted_a and_o that_o they_o be_v true_o schismatic_n who_o leave_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n if_o corrupt_v especial_o if_o the_o case_n be_v so_o and_o luther_n be_v so_o that_o they_o must_v either_o leave_v her_o communion_n or_o of_o necessity_n communicate_v with_o she_o in_o her_o corruption_n 26._o beside_o although_o it_o be_v grant_v schism_n to_o leave_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o what_o state_n or_o case_n so_o ever_o it_o be_v and_o that_o luther_n and_o his_o follower_n be_v schismatic_n for_o leave_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o all_o visible_a church_n yet_o you_o fail_v exceed_o of_o clear_v the_o other_o necessary_a point_n undertake_v by_o you_o that_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v then_o the_o visible_a church_n for_o neither_o do_v protestant_n as_o you_o mistake_v make_v the_o true_a preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o due_a administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n the_o note_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n but_o only_o of_o a_o visible_a church_n now_o these_o you_o know_v be_v very_o different_a thing_n the_o former_a signify_v the_o church_n catholic_n or_o the_o whole_a church_n the_o latter_a a_o particular_a church_n or_o a_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_n and_o therefore_o suppose_v out_o of_o courtesy_n we_o shall_v grant_v what_o by_o argument_n you_o can_v never_o evince_v that_o your_o church_n have_v these_o note_n yet_o will_v it_o by_o no_o mean_n follow_v that_o your_o church_n be_v the_o visible_a church_n but_o only_o a_o visible_a church_n not_o the_o whole_a catholic_n but_o only_o a_o part_n of_o it_o 27._o last_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o protestant_n must_v either_o grant_v that_o your_o church_n then_o be_v the_o visible_a church_n or_o name_v some_o other_o disagree_v from_o you_o and_o agree_v with_o protestant_n in_o their_o particular_a doctrine_n or_o acknowledge_v there_o be_v no_o visible_a church_n it_o be_v all_o one_o as_o if_o to_o use_v s._n paul_n similitude_n the_o head_n shall_v say_v to_o the_o foot_n either_o you_o must_v grant_v that_o i_o be_o the_o whole_a body_n or_o name_v some_o other_o member_n that_o be_v so_o or_o confess_v that_o there_o be_v no_o body_n to_o which_o the_o foot_n may_v answer_v i_o acknowledge_v there_o be_v a_o body_n and_o yet_o that_o no_o member_n beside_o you_o be_v this_o body_n nor_o yet_o that_o you_o be_v it_o but_o only_o a_o part_n of_o it_o and_o in_o like_a manner_n say_v we_o we_o acknowledge_v a_o church_n there_o be_v corrupt_v indeed_o universal_o but_o yet_o such_o a_o one_o as_o we_o hope_v by_o god_n gracious_a acceptance_n be_v still_o a_o church_n we_o pretend_v not_o to_o name_v any_o one_o society_n that_o be_v this_o church_n and_o yet_o we_o see_v no_o reason_n that_o can_v enforce_v we_o to_o confess_v that_o you_o be_v the_o church_n but_o only_o a_o part_n of_o it_o and_o that_o one_o of_o the_o worst_a then_o extant_a in_o the_o world_n in_o vain_a therefore_o have_v you_o trouble_v yourself_o in_o prove_v that_o we_o can_v pretend_v that_o either_o the_o greek_n waldenses_n wickliffite_n hussites_n muscovite_n armenians_n georgians_n abyssine_n be_v then_o the_o visible_a church_n for_o all_o this_o discourse_n proceed_v from_o a_o false_a &_o vain_a supposition_n and_o beg_v another_o point_n in_o question_n between_o we_o which_o be_v that_o some_o church_n of_o one_o denomination_n and_o one_o communion_n as_o the_o roman_a the_o greek_a etc._n etc._n must_v be_v always_o exclusive_o to_o all_o other_o communion_n the_o whole_a visible_a church_n and_o though_o perhaps_o some_o weak_a protestant_n have_v this_o false_a principle_n settle_v in_o he_o that_o there_o be_v to_o be_v always_o some_o visible_a church_n of_o one_o denomination_n pure_a from_o all_o error_n in_o doctrine_n may_v be_v wrought_v upon_o and_o prevail_v with_o by_o it_o to_o forsake_v the_o church_n of_o protestant_n yet_o why_o it_o shall_v induce_v he_o to_o go_v to_o you_o rather_o than_o the_o greek_a church_n or_o any_o other_o which_o pretend_v to_o perpetual_a succession_n as_o well_o as_o you_o that_o i_o do_v not_o understand_v unless_o it_o be_v for_o the_o reason_n which_o aeneas_n silvius_n give_v why_o more_o hold_v the_o pope_n above_o a_o council_n than_o a_o council_n above_o the_o pope_n which_o be_v because_o pope_n do_v give_v bishopric_n and_o archbishopric_n but_o council_n give_v none_o and_o therefore_o sue_v in_o forma_fw-la pauperis_fw-la be_v not_o like_a to_o have_v their_o cause_n very_o well_o maintain_v for_o put_v the_o case_n i_o shall_v grant_v of_o mere_a favour_n that_o there_o must_v be_v always_o some_o church_n of_o one_o denomination_n and_o communion_n free_a from_o all_o error_n in_o doctrine_n and_o that_o protestant_n have_v not_o always_o such_o a_o church_n it_o will_v follow_v indeed_o from_o thence_o that_o i_o must_v not_o be_v a_o protestant_n but_o that_o i_o must_v be_v a_o papist_n certain_o it_o will_v follow_v by_o no_o better_a consequence_n than_o this_o if_o you_o will_v leave_v england_n you_o must_v of_o necessity_n go_v to_o rome_n and_o yet_o with_o this_o wretched_a fallacy_n have_v i_o be_v sometime_o abuse_v myself_o and_o know_v many_o other_o poor_a soul_n seduce_v not_o only_o from_o their_o own_o church_n and_o religion_n but_o unto_o you_o i_o beseech_v god_n to_o open_v the_o eye_n of_o all_o that_o love_v the_o truth_n that_o they_o may_v not_o always_o be_v hold_v captive_a under_o such_o miserable_a delusion_n 28._o let_v we_o come_v now_o to_o the_o argument_n which_o you_o build_v upon_o d._n potter_n own_o word_n out_o of_o which_o you_o promise_v unanswerable_a reason_n to_o convince_v protestant_n of_o schism_n 29._o but_o these_o reason_n will_v easy_o be_v answer_v if_o the_o reader_n will_v take_v along_o with_o he_o these_o three_o short_a memorandum_n 30._o first_o that_o not_o every_o separation_n but_o only_o a_o causeless_a separation_n from_o the_o external_a communion_n of_o any_o church_n be_v the_o sin_n of_o schism_n 31._o second_o that_o impose_v upon_o man_n under_o pain_n of_o excommunication_n a_o necessity_n of_o profess_v know_v error_n and_o practise_v know_v corruption_n be_v a_o sufficient_a and_o necessary_a cause_n of_o separation_n and_o that_o this_o be_v the_o cause_n the_o protestant_n allege_v to_o justify_v their_o separation_n from_o which_o church_n of_o rome_n 32._o three_o that_o to_o leave_v the_o church_n and_o to_o leave_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o a_o church_n be_v not_o the_o same_o thing_n that_o be_v do_v by_o cease_v to_o be_v a_o member_n of_o it_o by_o cease_v to_o have_v those_o requisite_n which_o constitute_v a_o man_n a_o member_n of_o it_o as_o faith_n and_o obedience_n this_o by_o refuse_v to_o communicate_v with_o any_o church_n in_o her_o liturgy_n and_o public_a worship_n of_o god_n this_o armour_n if_o it_o be_v right_o place_v will_v repel_v all_o those_o battery_n which_o you_o threaten_v we_o with_o all_o 33._o ad_fw-la §_o 13.14_o 15._o the_o first_o be_v a_o sentence_n of_o s._n austin_n against_o donatus_n apply_v to_o luther_n thus_o if_o the_o church_n perish_v what_o church_n bring_v forth_o donatus_n you_o say_v luther_n if_o she_o can_v not_o perish_v what_o madness_n move_v the_o sect_n of_o donatus_n to_o separate_v upon_o pretence_n to_o avoid_v the_o communion_n of_o bad_a man_n whereunto_o one_o fair_a answer_n to_o let_v pass_v many_o other_o be_v obvious_a out_o of_o the_o second_o observation_n that_o this_o sentence_n though_o it_o be_v gospel_n as_o it_o be_v not_o be_v impertinent_o apply_v to_o luther_n and_o lutheran_n who_o pretence_n of_o separation_n be_v it_o true_a or_o be_v it_o false_a be_v not_o as_o that_o of_o the_o donatist_n only_o to_o avoid_v the_o communion_n of_o bad_a man_n but_o to_o free_v themselves_o from_o a_o necessity_n which_o but_o by_o separate_n be_v unavoidable_a of_o join_v with_o bad_a man_n in_o their_o impiety_n 34._o ad_fw-la §_o 16._o your_o second_o onset_n drive_v only_o at_o those_o protestant_n who_o hold_v the_o true_a church_n be_v invisible_a for_o many_o age_n which_o doctrine_n if_o by_o the_o true_a church_n be_v understand_v the_o pure_a church_n as_o you_o do_v understand_v it_o be_v a_o certain_a truth_n &_o it_o
corn._n look_v again_o i_o pray_v and_o you_o shall_v see_v that_o the_o field_n he_o speak_v of_o be_v not_o the_o church_n but_o the_o world_n and_o therefore_o neither_o do_v you_o obey_v our_o saviour_n command_n let_v both_o grow_v up_o till_o the_o harvest_n who_o teach_v it_o to_o be_v lawful_a to_o root_v these_o tear_n such_o be_v heretic_n out_o of_o the_o world_n neither_o do_v protestant_n disobey_v it_o if_o they_o eject_v manifest_a heresy_n and_o notorious_a sinner_n out_o of_o the_o church_n 58._o ad_fw-la §_o 19_o in_o the_o 19_o you_o be_v so_o courteous_a as_o to_o suppose_v corruption_n in_o your_o doctrine_n and_o yet_o undertake_v to_o prove_v that_o neither_o can_v they_o afford_v we_o any_o sufficient_a cause_n or_o colourable_a necessity_n to_o depart_v from_o they_o your_o reason_n be_v because_o damnable_a error_n there_o be_v none_o in_o your_o church_n by_o d._n potter_n confession_n neither_o can_v it_o be_v damnable_a in_o respect_n of_o error_n to_o remain_v in_o any_o church_n communion_n who_o error_n be_v not_o damnable_a for_o if_o the_o error_n be_v not_o damnable_a the_o belief_n thereof_o can_v answ_n d._n potter_n confess_v no_o such_o matter_n but_o only_o that_o he_o hope_v that_o your_o error_n though_o in_o themselves_o sufficient_o damnable_a yet_o by_o accident_n do_v not_o damn_v all_o that_o hold_v they_o such_o he_o mean_v and_o say_v as_o be_v excusable_o ignorant_a of_o truth_n and_o among_o the_o number_n of_o their_o unknown_a sin_n repent_v daily_o of_o their_o unknown_a error_n the_o truth_n be_v he_o think_v as_o ill_a of_o your_o error_n and_o their_o desert_n as_o you_o do_v of_o we_o only_o he_o be_v not_o so_o peremptory_a and_o presumptuous_a in_o judge_v your_o person_n as_o you_o be_v in_o judge_v we_o but_o leave_v they_o to_o stand_v or_o fall_v to_o their_o own_o master_n who_o be_v infinite_o merciful_a and_o therefore_o will_v not_o damn_v they_o for_o mere_a error_n who_o desire_v to_o find_v the_o truth_n and_o can_v and_o withal_o infinite_o just_a and_o therefore_o be_v it_o to_o be_v fear_v will_v not_o pardon_v they_o who_o may_v easy_o have_v come_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o truth_n and_o either_o through_o pride_n or_o obstinacy_n or_o neligence_n will_v not_o 59_o to_o your_o minor_fw-la also_o i_o answer_v almost_o in_o your_o own_o word_n §_o 42._o of_o this_o chap._n i_o thank_v you_o for_o your_o courteous_a supposal_n that_o your_o church_n may_v err_v and_o in_o recompense_n thereof_o will_v do_v you_o a_o charity_n by_o put_v you_o in_o mind_n into_o what_o labyrinth_n you_o cast_v yourself_o by_o suppose_v that_o the_o church_n may_v err_v in_o some_o of_o her_o proposal_n and_o yet_o deny_v it_o lawful_a for_o any_o man_n though_o he_o know_v this_o which_o you_o suppose_v to_o oppose_v her_o judgement_n or_o leave_v her_o communion_n will_v you_o have_v such_o a_o man_n dissemble_v against_o his_o conscience_n or_o external_o deny_v that_o which_o he_o know_v true_a no_o that_o you_o will_v not_o for_o they_o that_o do_v so_o you_o yourself_o have_v pronounce_v a_o damn_a crew_n of_o dissemble_a sycophant_n or_o will_v you_o have_v he_o continue_v in_o your_o communion_n and_o yet_o profess_v your_o church_n to_o err_v this_o you_o yourselves_o have_v make_v to_o he_o impossible_a or_o will_v you_o have_v he_o believe_v those_o thing_n true_a which_o together_o with_o he_o you_o have_v suppose_v to_o be_v error_n this_o in_o such_o a_o one_o as_o be_v assure_v or_o persuade_v of_o that_o which_o you_o here_o suppose_v that_o your_o church_n do_v err_v and_o such_o only_o we_o say_v be_v oblige_v to_o forsake_v your_o communion_n be_v as_o schoolman_n speak_v implicatio_fw-la in_o terminis_fw-la a_o contradiction_n so_o plain_a that_o one_o word_n destroy_v another_o as_o if_o one_o shall_v say_v a_o live_a dead_a man_n for_o it_o be_v to_o require_v that_o they_o which_o believe_v some_o part_n of_o your_o doctrine_n false_a shall_v withal_o believe_v it_o all_o true_a see_v therefore_o for_o any_o man_n to_o believe_v your_o church_n in_o error_n and_o profess_v the_o contrary_a be_v damnable_a hypocrisy_n to_o believe_v it_o and_o not_o believe_v it_o a_o manifest_a repugnancy_n and_o three_o to_o profess_v it_o and_o to_o continue_v in_o your_o communion_n as_o matter_n now_o stand_v a_o plain_a impossibility_n what_o remain_v but_o that_o whosoever_o be_v suppose_v to_o have_v just_a reason_n to_o disbelieve_v any_o doctrine_n of_o your_o church_n must_v of_o necessity_n forsake_v her_o communion_n unless_o you_o will_v remit_v so_o far_o from_o your_o present_a rigour_n as_o to_o allow_v they_o your_o church_n communion_n who_o public_o profess_v that_o they_o do_v not_o believe_v every_o article_n of_o her_o establish_a doctrine_n indeed_o if_o you_o will_v do_v so_o you_o may_v with_o some_o coherence_n suppose_v your_o church_n in_o error_n and_o yet_o find_v fault_n with_o man_n for_o abandon_v her_o communion_n because_o they_o may_v continue_v in_o it_o and_o suppose_v she_o in_o error_n but_o to_o suppose_v your_o church_n in_o error_n and_o to_o excommunicate_v all_o those_o that_o believe_v your_o own_o supposition_n and_o then_o to_o complain_v that_o they_o continue_v not_o in_o your_o communion_n be_v the_o most_o ridiculous_a incongruity_n that_o can_v be_v imagine_v and_o therefore_o though_o your_o corruption_n in_o doctrine_n in_o themselves_o which_o yet_o be_v false_a do_v not_o yet_o your_o oblige_v we_o to_o profess_v your_o doctrine_n uncorrupted_a against_o knowledge_n and_o conscience_n may_v induce_v a_o obligation_n to_o depart_v from_o your_o communion_n as_o if_o there_o be_v any_o society_n of_o christian_n that_o hold_v there_o be_v no_o antipode_n notwithstanding_o this_o error_n i_o may_v communicate_v with_o they_o but_o if_o i_o can_v not_o do_v so_o without_o profess_v myself_o of_o their_o belief_n in_o this_o matter_n than_o i_o suppose_v i_o shall_v be_v excuse_v from_o schism_n if_o i_o shall_v forsake_v their_o communion_n rather_o than_o profess_v myself_o to_o believe_v that_o which_o i_o do_v not_o believe_v neither_o be_v there_o any_o contradiction_n or_o shadow_n of_o contradiction_n that_o it_o may_v be_v necessary_a for_o my_o salvation_n to_o depart_v from_o this_o church_n communion_n and_o that_o this_o church_n though_o err_v in_o this_o matter_n want_v nothing_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n 60._o that_o there_o may_v be_v necessary_a cause_n to_o depart_v from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o some_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n though_o she_o want_v nothing_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n as_o dr._n potter_n hold_v and_o you_o call_v a_o contradiction_n will_v appear_v by_o set_v down_o his_o word_n which_o be_v these_o to_o forsake_v the_o error_n of_o that_o church_n and_o not_o to_o join_v with_o she_o in_o those_o practice_n which_o we_o account_v erroneous_a we_o be_v enforce_v by_o necessity_n for_o though_o in_o the_o issue_n they_o be_v not_o damnable_a to_o they_o which_o believe_v as_o they_o profess_v yet_o for_o we_o to_o profess_v and_o avow_v by_o oath_n as_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n enjoin_v what_o we_o believe_v not_o be_v without_o question_n damnable_a and_o they_o with_o their_o error_n by_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n may_v go_v to_o heaven_n when_o we_o for_o our_o hypocrisy_n and_o dissimulation_n he_o may_v have_v add_v and_o perjury_n shall_v certain_o be_v condemn_v to_o hell_n 61._o ad_fw-la §_o 20._o obj._n but_o a_o church_n not_o err_v in_o fundamental_o though_o err_v in_o other_o matter_n do_v what_o our_o saviour_n exact_v at_o her_o hand_n do_v as_o much_o as_o lie_v in_o her_o power_n to_o do_v therefore_o the_o communion_n of_o such_o a_o church_n be_v not_o upon_o pretence_n of_o error_n to_o be_v forsake_v the_o consequence_n be_v manifest_a the_o antecedent_n be_v prove_v because_o god_n by_o d._n potter_n confession_n have_v promise_v his_o assistance_n noâ—_n further_o 151.155_o pag._n 151.155_o nor_o be_v it_o in_o her_o power_n to_o do_v more_o than_o god_n do_v assist_v she_o to_o do_v answ_n the_o promise_n of_o divine_a assistance_n be_v twofold_a absolute_a or_o conditional_a that_o there_o shall_v be_v by_o divine_a providence_n preserve_v in_o the_o world_n to_o the_o world_n end_n such_o a_o company_n of_o christian_n who_o hold_v all_o thing_n precise_o and_o indispensable_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o nothing_o inevitable_o destructive_a of_o it_o this_o and_o no_o more_o the_o doctor_n affirm_v that_o god_n have_v promise_v absolute_o yet_o he_o neither_o doubt_n nor_o deny_v but_o that_o a_o far_a assistance_n be_v conditional_o promise_v we_o even_o such_o a_o assistance_n as_o shall_v lead_v we_o if_o we_o be_v not_o want_v to_o it_o and_o ourselves_o into_o all_o not_o only_o necessary_a but_o very_o profitable_a truth_n and_o guard_v we_o from_o
or_o ill_a opinion_n do_v gather_v otherwise_o than_o they_o ought_v for_o to_o this_o church_n for_o a_o more_o powerful_a principality_n it_o be_v necessary_a that_o all_o church_n resort_n that_o be_v all_o faithful_a people_n undique_fw-la of_o what_o place_n soever_o in_o which_o roman_a church_n the_o tradition_n from_o the_o apostle_n have_v always_o be_v conserve_v from_o those_o who_o be_v undique_fw-la every_o where_n answ_n though_o at_o the_o first_o hear_v the_o glorious_a attribute_n here_o give_v and_o that_o just_o to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n the_o confound_a heretic_n with_o her_o tradition_n and_o say_v it_o be_v necessary_a for_o all_o church_n to_o resort_v to_o she_o may_v sound_v like_o argument_n for_o you_o yet_o he_o that_o be_v attentive_a i_o hope_v will_v easy_o discover_v that_o it_o may_v be_v good_a and_o rational_a in_o irenaeus_n have_v to_o do_v with_o heretic_n who_o somewhat_o like_o those_o who_o will_v be_v the_o only_a catholic_n decline_v a_o trial_n by_o scripture_n as_o not_o contain_v the_o truth_n of_o christ_n perfect_o and_o not_o fit_a to_o decide_v controversy_n without_o recourse_n to_o tradition_n i_o say_v he_o will_v easy_o perceive_v that_o it_o may_v be_v rational_a in_o irenaeus_n to_o urge_v they_o with_o any_o tradition_n of_o more_o credit_n than_o their_o own_o especial_o a_o tradition_n consonant_a to_o scripture_n and_o even_o contain_v in_o it_o and_o yet_o that_o it_o may_v be_v irrational_a in_o you_o to_o urge_v we_o who_o do_v not_o decline_v scripture_n but_o appeal_n to_o it_o as_o a_o perfect_a rule_n of_o faith_n with_o a_o tradition_n which_o we_o pretend_v be_v many_o way_n repugnant_a to_o scripture_n and_o repugnant_a to_o a_o tradition_n far_o more_o general_a than_o itself_o which_o give_v testimony_n to_o scripture_n and_o last_o repugnant_a to_o itself_o as_o give_v attestation_n both_o to_o scripture_n and_o to_o doctrine_n plain_o contrary_a to_o scripture_n second_o that_o the_o 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therefore_o to_o secure_v she_o that_o she_o shall_v stand_v for_o ever_o he_o have_v no_o reason_n nor_o authority_n four_o that_o it_o appear_v manifest_o out_o of_o this_o book_n of_o irenaeus_n quote_v by_o you_o that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o chiliast_n be_v in_o his_o judgement_n apostolic_a tradition_n as_o also_o it_o be_v esteem_v for_o aught_o appear_v to_o the_o contrary_a by_o all_o the_o doctor_n and_o saint_n and_o martyr_n of_o or_o about_o his_o time_n for_o all_o that_o speak_v of_o it_o or_o who_o judgement_n in_o the_o point_n be_v any_o way_n record_v be_v for_o it_o and_o justin_n martyr_n profess_v that_o all_o good_a and_o orthodox_n christian_n of_o his_o time_n believe_v it_o and_o those_o that_o do_v not_o he_o reckon_v among_o heretic_n now_o i_o demand_v be_v this_o tradition_n one_o of_o those_o that_o be_v conserve_v and_o observe_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n or_o be_v it_o not_o if_o not_o have_v iraeneus_n know_v so_o much_o he_o must_v have_v retract_v this_o commendation_n of_o that_o church_n if_o it_o be_v than_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o present_a church_n of_o rome_n contradict_v the_o ancient_n and_o account_v it_o heretical_a and_o then_o sure_o it_o can_v be_v no_o certain_a note_n of_o heresy_n to_o depart_v from_o they_o who_o have_v depart_v from_o themselves_o and_o prove_v themselves_o subject_a unto_o error_n by_o hold_v contradiction_n five_o and_o last_o that_o out_o of_o the_o story_n of_o the_o church_n it_o be_v as_o manifest_a as_o the_o light_n at_o noon_n that_o though_o iraeneus_n do_v esteem_v the_o roman_a tradition_n a_o great_a argument_n of_o the_o doctrine_n which_o he_o there_o deliver_v and_o defend_v against_o the_o heretic_n of_o his_o time_n viz._n that_o there_o be_v one_o god_n yet_o he_o be_v very_o far_o from_o think_v that_o church_n be_v and_o ever_o shall_v be_v a_o safe_a keeper_n and_o a_o infallible_a witness_n of_o tradition_n in_o general_a inasmuch_o as_o in_o his_o own_o life_n his_o action_n proclaim_v the_o contrary_n for_o when_o victor_n bishop_n of_o rome_n obtrude_v the_o roman_a tradition_n touch_v the_o time_n of_o easter_n upon_o the_o asian_a bishop_n under_o the_o pain_n of_o excommunication_n and_o damnation_n iraeneus_n and_o all_o the_o other_o western_a bishop_n though_o agree_v with_o he_o in_o his_o observation_n yet_o sharp_o reprehend_v he_o for_o excommunicate_v the_o asian_a bishop_n for_o their_o disagree_v plain_o show_v that_o they_o esteem_v that_o not_o a_o necessary_a doctrine_n and_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n of_o excommunication_n which_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o his_o adherent_n do_v so_o account_v of_o for_o otherwise_o how_o can_v they_o have_v reprehend_v he_o for_o excommunicate_v they_o have_v they_o conceive_v the_o cause_n of_o his_o excommunication_n just_a and_o sufficient_a and_o beside_o evident_o declare_v that_o they_o esteem_v not_o separation_n from_o the_o roman_a church_n a_o certain_a mark_n of_o heresy_n see_v they_o esteem_v not_o they_o heretic_n though_o separate_v and_o cut_v off_o from_o the_o roman_a church_n 31._o obj._n s._n austin_n say_v in_o psalm_n count_v partem_fw-la donati_n it_o grieve_v we_o to_o see_v you_o so_o to_o lie_v cut_v off_o number_v the_o priest_n even_o from_o the_o sea_n of_o peter_n and_o consider_v in_o that_o order_n of_o father_n who_o succeed_v to_o who_o she_o be_v the_o rock_n which_o the_o proud_a gate_n of_o hell_n do_v not_o overcome_v where_o he_o seem_v to_o say_v that_o the_o succession_n in_o the_o sea_n of_o peter_n be_v the_o rock_n which_o our_o saviour_n mean_v when_o he_o say_v upon_o this_o rock_n will_v i_o build_v my_o church_n ans_fw-fr i_o answer_v first_o we_o have_v no_o reason_n to_o be_v confident_a of_o the_o truth_n hereof_o because_o s._n austin_n himself_o be_v not_o but_o retract_v it_o as_o uncertain_a and_o leaf_n to_o the_o reader_n whether_o he_o will_v think_v that_o or_o another_o more_o probable_a retr_n l._n 1._o c._n 26._o second_o what_o he_o say_v of_o the_o succession_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n in_o this_o place_n he_o say_v it_o elsewhere_o of_o all_o the_o succession_n in_o all_o other_o apostolic_a church_n three_o that_o as_o in_o this_o place_n he_o urge_v the_o donatist_n with_o separation_n from_o the_o roman_a church_n as_o a_o argument_n of_o their_o error_n so_o elsewhere_o he_o press_v they_o with_o their_o separation_n from_o other_o apostolic_a church_n nay_o more_o from_o these_o than_o from_o that_o because_o in_o rome_n the_o donatist_n have_v a_o bishop_n though_o not_o a_o perpetual_a succession_n of_o they_o but_o in_o other_o apostolic_a church_n they_o want_v both_o these_o scatter_a man_n say_v he_o of_o the_o donatist_n epist_n 165._o read_v in_o the_o holy_a book_n the_o church_n to_o which_o the_o apostle_n write_v and_o have_v no_o bishop_n in_o they_o but_o what_o be_v more_o perverse_a and_o
chargeable_a for_o forsake_v that_o guide_n which_o god_n have_v appoint_v i_o to_o follow_v but_o what_o if_o i_o forsake_v it_o because_o i_o think_v i_o have_v reason_n to_o fear_v it_o be_v one_o of_o those_o blind_a guide_n which_o whosoever_o blind_o follow_v be_v threaten_v by_o our_o saviour_n that_o both_o he_o and_o his_o guide_n shall_v fall_v into_o the_o ditch_n then_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v grant_v it_o be_v not_o pride_n but_o conscience_n that_o move_v i_o to_o do_v so_o for_o as_o it_o be_v wise_a humility_n to_o obey_v those_o who_o god_n have_v set_v over_o i_o so_o it_o be_v sinful_a credulity_n to_o follow_v every_o man_n or_o every_o church_n that_o without_o warrant_n will_v take_v upon_o they_o to_o guide_v i_o show_v i_o then_o some_o good_a and_o evident_a title_n which_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v to_o this_o office_n produce_v but_o one_o reason_n for_o it_o which_o upon_o trial_n will_v not_o final_o be_v resolve_v and_o vanish_v into_o uncertainty_n and_o if_o i_o yield_v not_o unto_o it_o say_v if_o you_o please_v i_o be_o as_o proud_a as_o lucifer_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n give_v i_o leave_v to_o think_v it_o strange_a and_o not_o far_o from_o a_o prodigy_n that_o this_o doctrine_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v the_o guide_n of_o faith_n if_o it_o be_v true_a doctrine_n shall_v either_o not_o be_v know_v to_o the_o four_o evangelist_n or_o if_o it_o be_v know_v to_o they_o that_o be_v wise_a and_o good_a man_n they_o shall_v either_o be_v so_o envious_a of_o the_o church_n happiness_n or_o so_o forgetful_a of_o the_o work_n they_o take_v in_o hand_n which_o be_v to_o write_v the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n as_o that_o not_o so_o much_o as_o one_o of_o they_o shall_v mention_v so_o much_o as_o once_o this_o so_o necessary_a part_n of_o the_o gospel_n without_o the_o belief_n whereof_o there_o be_v no_o salvation_n and_o with_o the_o belief_n whereof_o unless_o man_n be_v snatch_v away_o by_o sudden_a death_n 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whole_a world_n wonder_v say_v saint_n hierom_n that_o it_o be_v become_v arrian_n when_o liberius_n bishop_n of_o rome_n as_o s._n athanasius_n and_o s._n hilary_n testify_v subscribe_v their_o heresy_n and_o join_v in_o communion_n with_o they_o or_o in_o the_o division_n between_o the_o greek_a and_o the_o roman_a church_n about_o the_o procession_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n when_o either_o side_n be_v the_o church_n to_o itself_o and_o each_o part_n heretical_a and_o schismatical_a to_o the_o other_o what_o direction_n can_v i_o then_o a_o ignorant_a man_n have_v find_v from_o that_o text_n of_o scripture_n unless_o he_o hear_v the_o church_n let_v he_o be_v to_o thou_o as_o a_o heathen_a or_o a_o publican_n or_o upon_o this_o rock_n will_v i_o build_v my_o church_n and_o the_o gate_n of_o hell_n shall_v not_o prevail_v against_o it_o again_o give_v i_o leave_v to_o wonder_v that_o neither_o s._n paul_n write_v to_o the_o roman_n shall_v so_o much_o as_o intimate_v this_o their_o privilege_n of_o infallibility_n but_o rather_o on_o the_o contrary_n put_v they_o in_o fear_n in_o the_o eleven_o chapter_n that_o they_o as_o well_o as_o the_o jew_n be_v in_o danger_n of_o fall_v away_o that_o saint_n peter_n the_o pretend_a bishop_n of_o rome_n write_v two_o catholic_n epistle_n mention_v his_o departure_n shall_v not_o once_o acquaint_v the_o christian_n who_o he_o write_v to_o what_o guide_v they_o be_v to_o follow_v after_o he_o be_v take_v from_o they_o that_o the_o writer_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n shall_v so_o frequent_o forewarn_v man_n of_o heretic_n false_a christ_n false_a prophet_n and_o not_o once_o arm_v they_o against_o they_o with_o let_v they_o know_v this_o only_a sure_a mean_n of_o avoid_v their_o danger_n that_o so_o great_a a_o part_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n shall_v be_v employ_v about_o antichrist_n and_o so_o little_a or_o indeed_o none_o at_o all_o about_o the_o vicar_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o guide_n of_o the_o faithful_a that_o our_o saviour_n shall_v leave_v this_o only_a mean_n for_o the_o end_n of_o controversy_n and_o yet_o speak_v so_o obscure_o and_o ambiguous_o of_o it_o that_o now_o our_o judge_n be_v the_o great_a controversy_n and_o the_o great_a hindrance_n of_o end_v they_o that_o there_o shall_v be_v better_a evidence_n in_o the_o scripture_n to_o entitle_v the_o king_n to_o this_o office_n who_o disclaim_v it_o than_o the_o pope_n who_o pretend_v it_o that_o s._n peter_n shall_v not_o ever_o exercise_v over_o the_o apostle_n any_o one_o act_n of_o jurisdiction_n nor_o they_o ever_o give_v he_o any_o one_o title_n of_o authority_n over_o they_o that_o if_o the_o apostle_n do_v know_v s._n peter_n be_v make_v head_n over_o they_o when_o our_o saviour_n say_v thou_o be_v peter_n etc._n etc._n they_o shall_v still_o contend_v who_o shall_v be_v the_o first_o and_o that_o our_o saviour_n shall_v never_o tell_v they_o s._n peter_n be_v the_o man_n that_o s._n paul_n shall_v say_v he_o be_v in_o nothing_o inferior_a to_o the_o very_a chief_a apostle_n that_o the_o catechumenist_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n shall_v never_o be_v teach_v this_o foundation_n of_o their_o faith_n that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v guide_n of_o their_o faith_n that_o the_o father_n tertullian_n s._n hierom_n and_o optatus_n when_o they_o fly_v high_a in_o commendation_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n shall_v attribute_v no_o more_o to_o she_o than_o to_o all_o other_o apostolical_a church_n that_o in_o the_o controversy_n about_o easter_n the_o bishop_n and_o church_n of_o asia_n shall_v be_v so_o ill_o catechise_v as_o not_o to_o know_v this_o principle_n of_o christian_a religion_n the_o necessity_n of_o conformity_n in_o doctrine_n with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n that_o they_o shall_v never_o be_v press_v with_o any_o such_o necessity_n of_o conformity_n in_o all_o thing_n but_o only_o with_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o western_a church_n in_o that_o point_n that_o irenaeus_n and_o many_o other_o bishop_n notwithstanding_o ad_fw-la hanc_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la necesse_fw-la est_fw-la omnem_fw-la convenire_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la shall_v not_o yet_o think_v that_o a_o necessary_a doctrine_n nor_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n of_o excommunication_n which_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n though_o to_o be_v so_o that_o s._n cyprian_n and_o the_o bishop_n of_o africa_n shall_v be_v so_o ill_o instruct_v in_o their_o faith_n as_o not_o to_o know_v this_o foundation_n of_o it_o that_o they_o likewise_o be_v never_o urge_v with_o any_o such_o necessity_n of_o conformity_n with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n nor_o ever_o charge_v with_o heresy_n or_o error_n for_o deny_v it_o that_o when_o liberius_n join_v in_o communion_n with_o the_o arrian_n and_o subscribe_v their_o heresy_n the_o arrian_n than_o shall_v not_o be_v the_o church_n and_o the_o guide_n of_o faith_n that_o never_o any_o heretic_n for_o three_o age_n after_o christ_n be_v press_v with_o this_o argument_n of_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o present_a church_n of_o rome_n or_o charge_v with_o denial_n of_o it_o as_o a_o distinct_a heresy_n so_o that_o aeneas_n silvius_n shall_v have_v cause_n to_o say_v ante_fw-la tempora_fw-la concilii_fw-la niceni_n cuique_fw-la sibi_fw-la vivebat_fw-la &_o parvus_fw-la respectus_fw-la habebatur_fw-la ad_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la romanam_fw-la that_o the_o ecclesiastical_a story_n of_o those_o time_n mention_n no_o act_n of_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n over_o other_o church_n as_o if_o there_o shall_v be_v a_o monarchy_n and_o the_o king_n for_o some_o age_n together_o shall_v exercise_v no_o act_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o it_o that_o to_o supply_v this_o defect_n the_o decretal_a epistle_n shall_v be_v so_o impudent_o forge_v which_o in_o a_o manner_n speak_v nothing_o else_o but_o reges_a &_o monarchas_n i_o mean_v the_o pope_n make_v law_n for_o exercise_v authority_n
philosopher_n and_o heresy_n of_o christian_n be_v none_o of_o he_o he_o be_v but_o one_o to_o wit_n the_o catholic_n church_n etc._n etc._n s._n epiphan_n in_o fine_a panar_n 11._o a_o man_n may_v not_o call_v the_o conventicle_n of_o heretic_n i_o mean_v marcionites_n manichees_n and_o the_o rest_n church_n therefore_o the_o tradition_n appoint_v you_o to_o say_v i_o believe_v one_o holy_a catholic_n church_n etc._n etc._n s._n cyrill_n catech._n 18._o and_o these_o testimony_n i_o think_v be_v sufficient_a to_o show_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n that_o this_o title_n of_o the_o church_n one_o be_v direct_o and_o proper_o exclusive_a to_o all_o company_n beside_o one_o to_o wit_n that_o where_o there_o be_v diverse_a profession_n of_o faith_n or_o diverse_a communion_n there_o be_v but_o one_o of_o these_o which_o can_v be_v the_o catholic_n church_n upon_o this_o ground_n i_o desire_v some_o company_n of_o christian_n to_o be_v name_v profess_v a_o diverse_a faith_n and_o hold_v a_o diverse_a communion_n from_o the_o roman_a which_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n at_o the_o time_n of_o luther_n rise_n and_o if_o no_o other_o in_o this_o sense_n can_v be_v name_v than_o be_v she_o the_o catholic_n church_n at_o that_o time_n and_o therefore_o her_o judgement_n to_o be_v rest_v in_o and_o her_o communion_n to_o be_v embrace_v upon_o peril_n of_o schism_n and_o heresy_n mr._n chillingworths_n answer_n upon_o the_o same_o ground_n if_o you_o please_v you_o may_v desire_v a_o protestant_n to_o name_v some_o company_n of_o christian_n profess_v a_o diverse_a faith_n and_o hold_v a_o diverse_a communion_n from_o the_o greek_a church_n which_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n at_o the_o time_n of_o luther_n rise_v and_o see_v he_o can_v name_v no_o other_o in_o this_o sense_n conclude_v that_o the_o greek_a church_n be_v the_o catholic_n church_n at_o that_o time_n upon_o the_o very_a same_o ground_n you_o may_v have_v conclude_v for_o the_o church_n of_o the_o abyssine_n or_o armenians_n or_o any_o other_o society_n of_o christian_n extant_a before_o luther_n time_n and_o see_v this_o be_v so_o thus_o i_o argue_v against_o your_o ground_n 1._o that_o ground_n which_o conclude_v indifferent_o for_o both_o part_n of_o a_o contradiction_n must_v needs_o be_v false_a and_o deceitful_a and_o conclude_v for_o neither_o part_n but_o this_o ground_n conclude_v indifferent_o both_o part_n of_o a_o contradiction_n viz._n that_o the_o greek_a church_n be_v the_o catholic_n church_n and_o not_o the_o roman_a as_o well_o as_o that_o the_o roman_a be_v the_o catholic_n church_n and_o not_o the_o greek_a therefore_o the_o ground_n be_v false_a and_o deceitful_a seem_v it_o never_o so_o plausible_a 2._o i_o answer_v second_o that_o you_o shall_v have_v take_v notice_n of_o my_o answer_n which_o i_o then_o give_v you_o which_o be_v that_o your_o major_n as_o you_o then_o frame_v your_o argument_n but_o as_o now_o your_o minor_a be_v not_o always_o true_a if_o by_o one_o you_o understand_v one_o in_o external_a communion_n see_v nothing_o hinder_v in_o my_o judgement_n but_o that_o one_o church_n excommunicate_v by_o another_o upon_o a_o insufficient_a cause_n may_v yet_o remain_v a_o true_a member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o that_o church_n which_o upon_o the_o over-value_a this_o cause_n do_v excommunicate_v the_o other_o though_o in_o fault_n may_v yet_o remain_v a_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n which_o be_v evident_a from_o the_o difference_n about_o easter-day_n between_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o church_n of_o asia_n for_o which_o vain_a matter_n victor_n bishop_n of_o rome_n excommunicate_v the_o church_n of_o asia_n and_o yet_o i_o believe_v you_o will_v not_o say_v that_o either_o the_o church_n excommunicate_v or_o the_o church_n excommunicate_v cease_v to_o be_v a_o true_a member_n of_o the_o church_n catholic_n the_o case_n be_v the_o same_o between_o the_o greek_a and_o the_o roman_a church_n for_o though_o the_o difference_n between_o they_o be_v great_a yet_o it_o be_v not_o so_o great_a as_o to_o be_v a_o sufficient_a ground_n of_o excommunication_n and_o therefore_o the_o excommunication_n be_v causeless_a and_o consequent_o brutum_fw-la fulmen_fw-la and_o not_o ratify_v or_o confirm_v by_o god_n in_o heaven_n and_o therefore_o the_o church_n of_o greece_n at_o luther_n rise_a might_n be_v and_o be_v a_o true_a member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n as_o concern_v the_o place_n of_o father_n which_o you_o allege_v i_o demand_v 1._o if_o i_o can_v produce_v you_o a_o equal_a or_o great_a number_n of_o father_n or_o more_o ancient_a than_o these_o not_o contradict_v by_o any_o that_o live_v with_o they_o or_o before_o they_o for_o some_o doctrine_n condemn_v by_o the_o roman_a church_n whether_o you_o will_v subscribe_v it_o if_o not_o with_o what_o face_n or_o conscience_n can_v you_o make_v use_n of_o and_o build_v your_o whole_a faith_n upon_o the_o authority_n of_o father_n in_o some_o thing_n and_o reject_v the_o same_o authority_n in_o other_o 2._o second_o because_o you_o urge_v s._n cyprian_n authority_n i_o desire_v you_o to_o tell_v i_o whether_o this_o argument_n in_o his_o time_n will_v have_v conclude_v a_o necessity_n of_o rest_v in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n or_o no_o if_o not_o how_o shall_v it_o come_v to_o pass_v that_o it_o shall_v serve_v now_o and_o not_o then_o fit_v this_o time_n and_o not_o that_o as_o if_o it_o be_v like_o a_o almanac_n that_o will_v not_o serve_v for_o all_o meridian_n if_o it_o will_v why_o be_v it_o not_o urge_v by_o other_o upon_o s._n cyprian_n or_o represent_v by_o s._n cyprian_n to_o himself_o for_o his_o direction_n when_o he_o differ_v from_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o all_o other_o that_o herein_o conform_v unto_o she_o touch_v the_o point_n of_o rebaptising_a heretic_n which_o the_o roman_a church_n hold_v unlawful_a and_o damnable_a s._n cyprian_n not_o only_o lawful_a but_o necessary_a so_o well_o do_v he_o rest_v in_o the_o judgement_n of_o that_o church_n quid_fw-la verba_fw-la audiam_fw-la cùm_fw-la facta_fw-la videam_fw-la say_v he_o in_o the_o comedy_n and_o cardinal_n perron_n tell_v you_o in_o his_o epistle_n to_o casaubon_n that_o nothing_o be_v more_o unreasonable_a than_o to_o draw_v consequence_n from_o the_o word_n of_o father_n against_o their_o lively_a and_o actual_a practice_n the_o same_o may_v be_v say_v in_o refutation_n of_o the_o place_n out_o of_o s._n austin_n who_o be_v so_o far_o from_o conclude_v from_o they_o or_o any_o other_o a_o necessity_n of_o rest_v in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n that_o he_o himself_o as_o your_o author_n testify_v live_v and_o die_v in_o opposition_n of_o it_o even_o in_o that_o main_a fundamental_a point_n upon_o which_o mr._n lewgar_n have_v build_v the_o necessity_n of_o his_o departure_n from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o embrace_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n that_o be_v the_o supreme_a authority_n of_o that_o church_n over_o other_o church_n and_o the_o power_n of_o receive_v appeals_n from_o they_o mr._n lewgar_o i_o know_v can_v be_v ignorant_a of_o these_o thing_n and_o therefore_o i_o wonder_v with_o what_o conscience_n he_o can_v produce_v their_o word_n against_o we_o who_o action_n be_v for_o we_o if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o s._n cyprian_a and_o s._n austin_n be_v schismatic_n for_o do_v so_o it_o seem_v then_o schismatic_n may_v not_o only_o be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n against_o mr._n lewgar_n main_a conclusion_n but_o canonize_v saint_n of_o it_o or_o else_o s._n austin_n and_o s._n cyprian_a shall_v be_v raze_v out_o of_o the_o roman_a calendar_n if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o point_n of_o rebaptisation_a be_v not_o define_v in_o s._n cyprian_n time_n i_o say_v that_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o bishop_n and_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o their_o adherent_n it_o be_v for_o they_o urge_v it_o as_o a_o original_a and_o apostolic_a tradition_n and_o consequent_o at_o least_o of_o as_o great_a force_n as_o any_o church_n definition_n they_o excommunicate_v firmilianus_n and_o condemn_v s._n cyprian_n as_o a_o false_a christ_n and_o a_o false_a apostle_n for_o hold_v the_o contrary_a and_o urge_v he_o tyrannico_fw-la terror_fw-la to_o conform_v his_o judgement_n to_o they_o as_o he_o himself_o clear_o intimate_v if_o it_o be_v say_v they_o differ_v only_o from_o the_o particular_a church_n of_o rome_n and_o not_o from_o the_o roman_a church_n take_v it_o for_o the_o universal_a society_n of_o christian_n in_o communion_n with_o that_o church_n i_o answer_v 1._o they_o know_v no_o such_o sense_n of_o the_o word_n i_o be_o sure_a never_o use_v it_o in_o any_o such_o which_o whether_o it_o have_v be_v possible_a if_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v be_v in_o their_o judgement_n to_o other_o church_n in_o
necessary_a to_o the_o church_n to_o be_v so_o than_o it_o be_v impossible_a the_o church_n shall_v acquire_v this_o essence_n or_o this_o property_n afterward_o and_o therefore_o impossible_a it_o shall_v have_v it_o at_o the_o time_n of_o luther_n rise_n necessarium_fw-la est_fw-la quod_fw-la non_fw-la aliquando_fw-la inest_fw-la aliquando_fw-la non_fw-la inest_fw-la alicui_fw-la inest_fw-la alicui_fw-la non_fw-la inest_fw-la sed_fw-la quod_fw-la semper_fw-la &_o omni_fw-la arist_n post_n analyt_v again_o every_o sophister_n know_v that_o of_o particular_n nothing_o can_v be_v conclude_v and_o therefore_o he_o that_o will_v show_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o adherent_n of_o it_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n at_o luther_n rise_v he_o must_v argue_v thus_o it_o be_v always_o so_o therefore_o than_o it_o be_v so_o now_o this_o antecedent_n be_v overthrow_v by_o any_o instance_n to_o the_o contrary_a and_o so_o the_o first_o antecedent_n be_v prove_v false_a the_o first_o consequent_a can_v but_o be_v false_a for_o what_o reason_n can_v be_v imagine_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o adherent_n of_o it_o be_v not_o the_o whole_a catholic_n church_n at_o s._n cyprian_n time_n and_o be_v at_o luther_n rise_n if_o you_o grant_v as_o i_o think_v you_o can_v deny_v that_o a_o church_n divide_v from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o roman_a may_v be_v still_o in_o truth_n and_o in_o god_n account_n a_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n we_o speak_v of_o than_o i_o hope_v mr._n lewgars_n argument_n from_o unity_n of_o communion_n be_v fall_v to_o the_o ground_n and_o it_o will_v be_v no_o good_a plea_n to_o say_v some_o one_o church_n not_o consist_v of_o divers_a communion_n be_v the_o catholic_n church_n at_o luther_n rise_n no_o one_o church_n can_v be_v name_v to_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n but_o the_o roman_a therefore_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v the_o catholic_n at_o luther_n rise_n for_o mr._n lewgar_n have_v not_o nor_o can_v prove_v the_o major_a of_o this_o syllogism_n certain_o true_a but_o to_o the_o contrary_n i_o have_v prove_v that_o it_o can_v be_v certain_o true_a by_o show_v divers_a instance_n wherein_o divers_a divide_a communion_n have_v make_v up_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o therefore_o not_o the_o divide_n of_o the_o communion_n but_o the_o cause_n and_o ground_n of_o it_o be_v to_o be_v regard_v whether_o it_o be_v just_a and_o sufficient_a or_o unjust_a and_o insufficient_a neither_o be_v the_o bishop_n or_o church_n of_o rome_n with_o the_o adherent_n of_o it_o a_o infallible_a judge_n thereof_o for_o it_o be_v evident_a both_o he_o and_o it_o have_v err_v herein_o divers_a time_n which_o i_o have_v evince_v already_o by_o divers_a example_n which_o i_o will_v not_o repeat_v but_o add_v to_o they_o one_o confess_v by_o mr._n lewgar_n himself_o in_o his_o discourse_n upon_o the_o article_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n pag._n 84._o s._n athanasius_n be_v excommunicate_v though_o by_o the_o it_o the_o how_o by_o the_o whole_a church_n when_o himself_o be_v part_n of_o it_o and_o communicate_v still_o with_o divers_a other_o part_n of_o it_o whole_a church_n yet_o may_v remain_v a_o member_n of_o christ_n body_n not_o visible_a for_o that_o be_v impossible_a excommunicate_v impossible_a what_o not_o to_o they_o who_o know_v and_o believe_v he_o to_o be_v unjust_o excommunicate_v that_o a_o person_n cut_v off_o from_o visible_a communion_n though_o unjust_o shall_v be_v a_o visible_a member_n of_o the_o church_n but_o by_o invisible_a communion_n by_o reason_n of_o the_o invalidity_n of_o the_o sentence_n which_o be_v unjust_a be_v valid_a enough_o to_o visible_a excision_n but_o not_o far_o ii_o a_o discourse_n against_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n with_o a_o answer_n to_o all_o those_o text_n of_o scripture_n that_o be_v allege_v to_o prove_v it_o the_o condition_n of_o communion_n with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n without_o the_o performance_n whereof_o no_o man_n can_v be_v receive_v into_o it_o be_v this_o that_o he_o believe_v firm_o and_o without_o doubt_v whatsoever_o that_o church_n require_v he_o to_o believe_v it_o be_v impossible_a that_o any_o man_n shall_v certain_o believe_v any_o thing_n unless_o that_o thing_n be_v either_o evident_a of_o itself_o as_o that_o twice_o two_o be_v four_o that_o every_o whole_a be_v great_a than_o a_o part_n of_o itself_o or_o unless_o he_o have_v some_o certain_a reason_n at_o least_o some_o suppose_a certain_a reason_n and_o infallible_a guide_n for_o his_o belief_n thereof_o the_o doctrine_n which_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n require_v to_o be_v believe_v be_v not_o evident_a of_o themselves_o for_o then_o every_o one_o will_v grant_v they_o at_o first_o hear_v without_o any_o further_a proof_n he_o therefore_o that_o will_v believe_v they_o must_v have_v some_o certain_a and_o infallible_a ground_n whereupon_o to_o build_v his_o belief_n of_o they_o there_o be_v no_o other_o ground_n for_o a_o man_n belief_n of_o they_o especial_o in_o many_o point_n but_o only_o a_o assurance_n of_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n now_o this_o point_n of_o that_o church_n infallibility_n be_v not_o evident_a of_o itself_o for_o than_o no_o man_n can_v choose_v but_o in_o his_o heart_n believe_v it_o without_o far_a proof_n second_o it_o be_v in_o vain_a to_o bring_v any_o proof_n of_o it_o as_o vain_a as_o to_o light_v a_o candle_n to_o show_v man_n the_o sun_n three_o it_o be_v impossible_a to_o bring_v any_o proof_n of_o it_o see_v nothing_o can_v be_v more_o evident_a than_o that_o which_o of_o itself_o be_v evident_a and_o nothing_o can_v be_v bring_v in_o proof_n of_o any_o thing_n which_o be_v not_o more_o evident_a than_o that_o matter_n to_o be_v prove_v but_o now_o experience_n teach_v that_o million_o there_o be_v which_o have_v hear_v talk_n of_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o yet_o do_v not_o believe_v that_o the_o defender_n of_o it_o do_v not_o think_v it_o either_o vain_a or_o impossible_a to_o go_v about_o to_o prove_v it_o and_o from_o hence_o it_o follow_v plain_o that_o this_o point_n be_v not_o evident_a of_o itself_o neither_o be_v there_o any_o other_o certain_a ground_n for_o any_o man_n belief_n of_o it_o or_o if_o there_o be_v i_o desire_v it_o may_v be_v produce_v as_o who_o be_o ready_a and_o most_o willing_a to_o submit_v my_o judgement_n to_o it_o full_o persuade_v that_o none_o can_v be_v produce_v that_o will_v endure_v a_o severe_a and_o impartial_a examination_n if_o it_o be_v say_v the_o roman_a church_n be_v to_o be_v believe_v infallible_a because_o the_o scripture_n say_v it_o be_v so_o 1._o i_o demand_v how_o shall_v i_o be_v assure_v of_o the_o text_n that_o be_v allege_v that_o they_o be_v indeed_o scripture_n that_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o the_o answer_n to_o this_o must_v be_v either_o because_o the_o church_n tell_v i_o so_o or_o some_o other_o if_o any_o other_o be_v give_v than_o all_o be_v not_o final_o resolve_v into_o and_o build_v upon_o that_o church_n authority_n and_o this_o answer_n than_o i_o hope_v a_o protestant_n may_v have_v leave_n to_o make_v use_n of_o when_o he_o be_v put_v to_o that_o perilous_a question_n how_o know_v you_o the_o scripture_n to_o be_v the_o scripture_n if_o the_o answer_n be_v because_o the_o church_n tell_v i_o so_o my_o reply_n be_v ready_a that_o to_o believe_v that_o church_n be_v infallible_a because_o the_o scripture_n say_v so_o and_o that_o the_o scripture_n be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n because_o the_o same_o church_n say_v so_o be_v nothing_o else_o but_o to_o believe_v the_o church_n be_v infallible_a because_o the_o church_n say_v so_o which_o be_v infallible_a 2._o i_o can_v never_o yet_o from_o the_o begin_n of_o genesis_n to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o apocalypse_n find_v it_o write_v so_o much_o as_o once_o in_o express_a term_n or_o equivalent_o that_o the_o church_n in_o subordination_n to_o the_o sea_n of_o rome_n shall_v be_v always_o infallible_a 3._o if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o this_o be_v draw_v from_o good_a consequence_n from_o scripture_n true_o interpret_v i_o demand_v what_o certain_a ground_n have_v i_o to_o warrant_v i_o that_o this_o consequence_n be_v good_a and_o this_o interpretation_n true_a and_o if_o answer_v be_v make_v that_o reason_n will_v tell_v i_o so_o i_o reply_v 1._o that_o this_o be_v to_o build_v all_o upon_o my_o own_o reason_n and_o private_a interpretation_n 2._o i_o have_v great_a reason_n to_o fear_v that_o reason_n assure_v no_o man_n that_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n may_v be_v deduce_v from_o scripture_n by_o good_a and_o firm_a consequence_n 4._o if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o a_o consent_n of_o father_n do_v so_o interpret_v the_o scripture_n i_o answer_v 1._o that_o
hear_v christ_n and_o he_o that_o despise_v he_o despise_v christ_n they_o urge_v out_o of_o john_n 14._o for_o 15_o 16._o i_o will_v ask_v my_o father_n and_o he_o will_v give_v you_o another_o paraclete_n that_o he_o may_v abide_v with_o you_o for_o ever_o even_o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n but_o here_o also_o what_o warrant_v have_v we_o by_o you_o to_o understand_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n whereas_o he_o that_o compare_v v._o 26._o with_o this_o shall_v easy_o perceive_v that_o our_o saviour_n speak_v only_o of_o the_o apostle_n in_o their_o own_o person_n for_o there_o he_o say_v go_v on_o in_o the_o same_o discourse_n the_o holy_a ghost_n who_o the_o father_n will_v send_v in_o my_o name_n he_o shall_v teach_v you_o all_o thing_n and_o bring_v all_o thing_n to_o your_o remembrance_n whatsoever_o i_o have_v say_v to_o you_o which_o can_v agree_v but_o to_o the_o apostle_n themselves_o in_o person_n and_o not_o to_o their_o successor_n who_o have_v not_o yet_o be_v teach_v and_o therefore_o not_o forget_v any_o thing_n and_o therefore_o can_v not_o have_v they_o bring_v to_o their_o remembrance_n but_o what_o if_o it_o have_v be_v promise_v to_o they_o and_o their_o successor_n have_v they_o no_o successor_n but_o they_o of_o the_o roman_a church_n this_o indeed_o be_v pretend_v and_o cry_v up_o but_o for_o proof_n of_o it_o desiderantur_fw-la again_o i_o will_v fain_o know_v whether_o there_o be_v any_o certainty_n that_o every_o pope_n be_v a_o good_a christian_a or_o whether_o he_o may_v not_o be_v in_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o scripture_n of_o the_o world_n if_o not_o how_o be_v it_o that_o bellarmine_n shall_v have_v cause_n to_o think_v that_o such_o a_o rank_n of_o they_o go_v successive_o to_o the_o devil_n iii_o a_o conference_n concern_v the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n prove_v that_o the_o present_a church_n of_o rome_n either_o err_v in_o she_o worship_v the_o bless_a virgin_n mary_n or_o that_o the_o ancient_a church_n do_v err_v in_o condemn_v the_o collyridians_n as_o heretic_n 1._o demand_v whether_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v not_o the_o foundation_n of_o their_o faith_n which_o be_v member_n of_o that_o church_n answ_n the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n be_v not_o the_o foundation_n but_o a_o part_n of_o their_o faith_n who_o be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v hold_v to_o be_v the_o church_n by_o all_o those_o who_o be_v member_n of_o it_o reply_n that_o which_o be_v the_o last_o reason_n why_o you_o believe_v the_o scripture_n to_o be_v the_o write_a word_n of_o god_n and_o unwritten_a tradition_n his_o unwritten_a word_n and_o this_o or_o that_o to_o be_v the_o true_a sense_n of_o scripture_n that_o be_v to_o you_o the_o foundation_n of_o your_o faith_n and_o such_o unto_o you_o be_v the_o infallible_a authority_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n therefore_o unto_o you_o it_o be_v not_o only_o a_o part_n of_o your_o faith_n but_o also_o such_o a_o part_n as_o be_v the_o foundation_n of_o all_o other_o part_n therefore_o you_o be_v deceive_v if_o you_o think_v there_o be_v any_o more_o opposition_n between_o be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o faith_n and_o the_o foundation_n of_o other_o part_n of_o it_o than_o there_o be_v between_o be_v a_o part_n of_o a_o house_n and_o the_o foundation_n of_o it_o but_o whether_o you_o will_v have_v it_o the_o foundation_n of_o your_o faith_n or_o only_o a_o part_n of_o it_o for_o the_o present_a purpose_n it_o be_v all_o one_o 2._o demand_v whether_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v not_o absolute_o overthrow_v by_o prove_v the_o present_a roman_a church_n be_v in_o error_n or_o that_o the_o ancient_n be_v answ_n it_o be_v if_o the_o error_n be_v in_o those_o thing_n wherein_o she_o be_v affirm_v to_o be_v infallible_a viz._n in_o point_n of_o faith_n reply_n and_o this_o here_o speak_v of_o whether_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o offer_v taper_n and_o incense_n to_o the_o honour_n of_o the_o bless_a virgin_n be_v i_o hope_v a_o question_n concern_v a_o point_n of_o faith_n 3._o demand_v whether_o offer_v a_o cake_n to_o the_o virgin_n mary_n be_v not_o as_o lawful_a as_o to_o offer_v incense_n and_o taper_n and_o divers_a other_o oblation_n to_o the_o same_o virgin_n answ_n it_o be_v as_o lawful_a to_o offer_v a_o cake_n to_o her_o honour_n as_o wax-taper_n but_o neither_o the_o one_o nor_o the_o other_o may_v be_v offer_v to_o she_o or_o her_o honour_n as_o the_o term_n or_o object_n of_o the_o action_n for_o to_o speak_v proper_o nothing_o be_v offer_v to_o she_o or_o to_o her_o honour_n but_o to_o god_n in_o the_o honour_n of_o the_o bless_a virgin_n for_o incense_n it_o be_v a_o foul_a slander_n that_o it_o be_v offer_v any_o way_n to_o the_o bless_a virgin_n for_o that_o incense_a which_o be_v use_v in_o the_o time_n of_o mass_n be_v ever_o understand_v by_o all_o sort_n of_o people_n to_o be_v direct_v to_o god_n only_o reply_n if_o any_o thing_n 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deny_v she_o simple_o to_o be_v the_o object_n of_o this_o action_n when_o you_o mean_v only_o she_o be_v not_o such_o a_o kind_n of_o object_n no_o more_o than_o you_o may_v deny_v a_o man_n to_o be_v a_o live_a creature_n mean_v only_o that_o he_o be_v not_o a_o horse_n second_o i_o say_v it_o be_v not_o require_v of_o roman_a catholic_n when_o they_o offer_v taper_n to_o the_o saint_n that_o by_o a_o actual_a intention_n they_o direct_v their_o action_n actual_o to_o god_n but_o it_o be_v hold_v sufficient_a that_o they_o know_v and_o believe_v that_o the_o saint_n be_v in_o subordination_n and_o near_a relation_n to_o god_n and_o that_o they_o give_v this_o honour_n to_o the_o saint_n because_o of_o this_o relation_n and_o to_o god_n himself_o rather_o habitual_o and_o interpretative_a than_o actual_o express_o and_o formal_o as_o many_o man_n honour_v the_o king_n deputy_n without_o have_v any_o present_a thought_n of_o the_o king_n and_o yet_o their_o action_n may_v be_v 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sure_o do_v ill_a to_o charge_v the_o collyridians_n with_o heresy_n have_v nothing_o to_o impute_v to_o they_o but_o only_o that_o he_o be_v inform_v that_o they_o offer_v a_o cake_n to_o the_o honour_n of_o the_o bless_a virgin_n which_o honour_n yet_o they_o may_v and_o without_o question_n do_v give_v unto_o she_o for_o her_o relation_n unto_o christ_n and_o so_o make_v she_o not_o the_o last_o object_n and_o term_v of_o their_o worship_n and_o from_o hence_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o he_o conceive_v the_o very_a action_n itself_o substantial_o and_o intrinsical_o malicious_a i._n e._n he_o believe_v it_o a_o sin_n that_o they_o offer_v to_o she_o at_o all_o and_o so_o by_o their_o action_n put_v she_o in_o the_o