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A43300 Persecution for religion judg'd and condemned in a discourse between an antichristian and a Christian : proving by the law of God and of the land, and by King James his many testimonies, that no man ought to be persecuted for his religion, so he testifie his allegiance by the oath appointed by law. Helveys, Thomas, 1550?-1616? 1662 (1662) Wing H1413A; ESTC R30775 68,908 82

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Kings that have power and authority shall destroy Antichrists Kingdom and nourish and cherish Christs Kingdom Ch. Most true it is the Lord hath spoken it and therefore it ought to be a great comfort to Gods People but what is this to the purpose in hand namely That Kings may persecute the contrary-minded The words of the Prophet Isaiah prove that Kings and Queens that have formerly persecuted and destroyed the Church their hearts shall be turned by the power of Gods Word to be lovers and preservers of the Church And the other place Rev. 17.16 proves that Kings shall make that Whore desolate c. not by their temporal Authority or Sword as some say that make more shew of Religion than you do although themselves be now persecuted yet if Kings were of their minds would be as cruel as you for they maintain the same thing but by the Spirit of the Lords mouth and the Brightness of his coming 2 Thess 2.8 For this kingdom of Antichrist shall be destroyed without hand Dan. 8. 25. only by the Everlasting Gospel the true Armour indeed wherewith the Witnesses fight against the Antichrist As the Kings Majesty acknowledgeth Apol. pag. 93. Ant. You are so stiff against using of outward weapons in Church matters Did not our Saviour make a Whip of small cords and whip the Buyers and Sellers out of the Temple And why may not we follow his example Ch. In this and many other actions of Christ our Saviour we are to consider him as the fulfiller and ender of the Law as in the action of the Passover and sending him that was clensed of his Leprosie to offer to the Priest the gift that Moses commanded in which things we are not to imitate him for by him the Ceremonies are fulfilled and abolished and the everlasting Gospel established in the which we are to walk and it were more than foolish to reason thus Christ whipped wicked men out of Gods Temple made with hands with whips made of cord therfore we may whip wicked men out of Gods Temple made without hands with whips made of cord There is a wholsom doctrine to be collected from the Type to the Truth as thus Christ drove out wicked men out of the Temple made with hands by a carnal or worldly whip So Christ by his People must drive wicked men out of the Temple made without hands by a Spiritual whip even his Word which is called a Whip or Rod. Rev. 2 27. and Psal 2.9 So is Excommunication 1 Cor. 4.21 Ant. If freedom of Religion should be granted there would be such Divisions as would breed Sedition and Innovasion in the State Ch. Thus when your shews out of the Scripture are answered then you run to conceits and imaginations of Sedition Innovasion and the like thinking thereby to disswade Princes and all that are in authority therefrom knowing else your kingdom of iniquity would fall But that it may appear to all that you deal deceitfully herein let us consider first the Scriptures secondly behold the success of suffering of Religion free in other Countries And first Christ our Saviour who is that Prince of Peace Isa 9.6 not of Sedition hath taught Mat. 10 and Luk. 12. That he came not to send Peace on the earth but Debate to divide five in one house two against three and three against two the father against the son c. And a mans enemies shall be they of his own houshold And his desire is that the fire of such Sedition should be kindled Where we see this Prince of Peace putteth difference in Religion by preaching his Gospel which some receive as the savour of life unto them others refuse it and so become enemies unto the Truth and witnesses thereof as they did to Christ Jesus himself and his Disciples and as you do to me and others Secondly behold the Nations where freedom of Religion is permitted and you may see there are not more flourishing and prosperous Nations under the Heavens than they are Indif The Convocation of Bishops and the rest have made a Canon That whosoever shall affirm that the Kings Majesty hath not the same power in Causes Ecclesiastical under the Gospel that the godly Kings of Israel had under the Law let him be excommunicated ipso facto Ch. Yes they have so In the beginning of his Majesties Reign when they had gotten him sure unto them of the which they so much doubted as with my own ears I heard some of their chief followers say when his Highness was coming into England Now must Steeples down and we shall have no more High Commission with a lamentation they spake it then they made this Canon because their consciences are convinced that they stand only by his Power and if his hand be turned their spiritual power of darkness falleth to the pit of darkness from whence it came and whither it must go though there be never so much means used for the supporting of it for the strong Lord hath spoken it Revel 18. As for their sending men to Hell as they suppose with their ipso facto Excommunications if they had no stronger weapons for the supportting of their kingdom it would stand but a short space If Israel now were of this world as it was under the Law then they said something but if it be not of this world as it is not John 17.14 then the King of Israel is not of this world for when this King came the worldly Israel knew him not Indif I see evidently that all are but cavels and that no mortal man can make any man offer Sacrifices under the New Testament until he be a Believer and converted for he must be in Christ before he may offer Sacrifices for in Christ only the Father accepteth us But what say you Have they not power to compel men to come to the place where the Word is publickly taught that they may be converted Ch. Well then you see that the example of the Kings of Israel who had power to compel them to Sacrifice or to cut them off applyed to earthly Princes is gone as a meer doctrine of man and not of God And for compelling men to hear that they may be converted we can learn of no better than of Him who if we hear not we shall have a dreadfull recompence He had all power in Heaven and in Earth for converting souls given unto him and sent his Disciples as his Father sent him Joh. 20.21 charging them that when they should come into a City c. if they would not receive them nor their Word to shake off the dust of their feet for a witness against them saying it should be easier for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of Judgment than for that City or house And so the Apostles went from City to City accordingly Here were no Temples made with hands nor worldly power to compel all to come unto them to hear the Word of the Lord but they were commanded to go
Princes the other Subjects and Subjects must be obedient Ch. Most true it is but is it not also true that Princes must afford all their Subjects Justice and Equity although they be as Heathens and Publicans For if Princes be freed from doing Right and Justice and protecting their Subjects that be excommunicated why are not Subjects also freed from Subjection and Allegiance to their Princes being excommunicated if Excommunication be Christ's Law to all alike that will be saved without respect of persons And also Is not that Law of Christ herein to be observed That whatsoevr ye would men should do unto you even so do ye unto them Mat. 7.12 And therefore as Princes would that all their Subjects should be faithfull and obedient unto them so ought Princes to be just and equal to all their Subjects in maintaining them in every just and equal cause between man and man For For this cause not for Religion saith the Apostle the Saints at Rome payed Tribute to Caesar their Heathen Prince who was against them in Religion Shall they not escape Damnation for this accursed doctrine and practice and think ye you shall Thou that judgest another judgest thou not thy self By this it may appear as also by exceeding many other doctrines and practices how near you are to that bloody spiritual power what pretences to the contrary soever you make Ant. It were a lamentable thing if that bloody Religion should be practised again in this Nation Ch. I acknowledge it a bloody Religion but God hath cast down the Power thereof in this Kingdom blessed be his Name but I would you could see your own cruel bloody Religion But that God of his mercy hath restrained it by the Kings Majesty who thirsteth not after blood How many only for seeking Reformation in Religion have been put to death by your Power in the dayes of Qu. Elizabeth and how many both then and since have been consumed to death in Prisons Yea since that cruel spiritual Power hath been set up hath not Hanging Burning Exile Imprisonments and all manner of contempt been used and all for Religion although some for grievous Errours and yet you see not this to be a bloody Religion Further You cry out of their bloody Cruelty the reason is because you will not be of their Religion And when you have done your selves are most bloody and cruel so far as is in your power because we and all men will not not be of your Religion Ant. If men hold Errors and will not obey the Truth do they not sin against God and deserve punishment Ch. Yes such deserve punishment but God hath appointed their punishment and the time thereof Their punishment Rom. 2.8 9. To them that are contentions and disobey the Truth and obey unrighteousness shall be Indignation and Wrath Tribulation and Anguish shall be upon the soul of every one that doth evil Mark 16.16 He that will not believe shall be damned 2 Thes 1.8 In flaming fire rendring Vengeance unto them that know not God and obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ which shall be punished with everlasting perdition from the Presence of the Lord and the Glory of his Power The time thereof is mentioned in the last recited place ver 7. When the Lord Jesus shall shew Himself from Heaven with his mighty Angels And Rom. 2.5 The day of Wrath. And ver 16. At that day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ And Mat. 13.40 41. At the end of this World the Son of man shall send forth his Angels and they shall gather out of his Kingdom all things that offend and them that do iniquity and shall cast them into a furnace of Fire c. Here is shewed the Punisher the Punishment and the Time thereof This Punisher hath commanded you to wait for their repentance by his own example which is in his hands to give them and not to cut them off and send them to Hell as you teach and practise which is contrary to God who is patient towards mockers which walk after their own lusts 2 Pet. 3.3 Because he would have no man to perish but would that all men whatsoever should come to repentance But you contrary to Him use all means you can to cut men off that they might perish in that you seek to destroy their bodies whilst they remain in their errors Ant. I confess that God commandeth Matth. 13. that the good and bad must grow together unto the end of the World but that is in the Church Ch. Well if that be the true exposition I pray you why do you then excommunicate any out of your Church contrary to your own acknowledgment And here let all men take notice that by this Exposition you overthrow your own Excommunication quite and accuse Christ for giving a Rule Mat. 18. and the Apostle Paul and the Church of Corinth for practising that Rule 1 Cor. 5. in casting out of the Church For you say all must grow together to the end in the Church But the Exposition of the Law-giver himself is against you that the Field is the World ver 38. Yet in that you confess that the Wicked and the Godly must be let alone in the Church unto the end then much more in the World unto the end For if the Wicked pollute not the Church sure it is they pollute not the World This then you are commanded unto ver 29 30. Nay gather them not let them grow together unto the end of the World Ant. Let them come to Church and they shall grow together unto the end Ch. Indeed I think so Hereby you manifest you regard not how wicked and ungodly men be so they come to your Church you will not destroy them though they remain in their abominable lusts but if they will not come to your Church let them be Wheat or Tares you will gather them and as much as in you is send them to burning Herein all men may see as I said before that you seek your own Glory and Obedience and not Gods and so exalt your selves above God 2 Thess 2. Indif Well I bless God I see this as clearly as the Sun shining in his brightness That it is to fight against God to compel any contrary to their consciences to perform any service unto Him in that there are so many places of Scripture commanding the contrary Ch. The whole New Testament throughout in all the Doctrines and Practices of Christ and his Disciples teach no such thing as compelling men by Persecutions and Afflictions to obey the Gospel but the direct contrary viz. to suffer at the hands of the wicked when they were persecuted for Righteousness sake to suffer it when the unbelievers and wicked curse them to bless and pray for their repentance and that God would forgive them and never lay these sins to their charge as our Saviour Luke 23.34 Stephen Act. 7.60 and the rest did And for a conclusion
are upon us in that it is in your power to redress them and especially at this present in this High Meeting assembled for the publick weal of all your loyal Subjects Our miseries are long and lingring Imprisonments for many years in divers Counties of England in which many have dyed and left behind them Widows and many small Children taking away our Goods and others the like of which we can make good probation not for any disloyalty to your Majesty nor hurt to any mortal man our Adversaries themselves being Judges but only because we dare not assent unto and practise in the Worship of God such things as we have not Faith in because it is sin against the Most High Heb. 11.6 Rom. 14.23 as your Majesty well observeth in these words It is a good and safe Rule in Theology That in matters of the Worship of God Quod dubitas ne fereris according to Pauls rule Rom. 14.5 Let every man be fully perswaded in his own mind Medit. on Lo. Prayer If we were in error herein these courses of afflicting our bodies for Conscience cause are not of Christ but of Antichrist as hereafter is most plainly shewed And if no Church be the Rule of Faith but only the holy Scriptures as the learned Protestants do truly confess and that therefore the Doctrine of the Church of Rome that all must believe as the Church believes and so practise or else be cruelly persecuted be most ungodly as it is then how can they avoid the like censure that practise the same thing contrary to their own Judgement For the learned Protestants do say it is high cruelty for the Papists to constrain them to practise those things in Gods Worship which they have not Faith in nay which they know to be evil with Imprisonment Fire and Faggot and therefore why may not we say it is great cruelty for the learned Prorestants to constrain us to practise such things in Gods Worship which we have not Faith in Nay which we certainly know to be evil with lingring Imprisonment loss of Goods and what other cruelties they can procure against us of your Majesty and the Civil State If your Learned say they have the Truth and we are in Errour that resteth to be tryed by the true Touchstone the holy Scriptures If they be our Judges the Verdict must needs go against us If their sayings be a safe Rule for us to be saved by we will rest upon them And then why may not the saying of the Papists be sure also and they be the Protestants Judges and so bring us all to believe as the Church believes The iniquity of which we have discovered as briefty as we could beseeching your Majesty and all that are in Authority to hear us It concerneth our eternal Salvation or Condemnation and is therefore of great importance for what can a man give for the ranfom of his Soul Oh he pleased to remember the saying of that great and good man Job chap. 29. I delivered the Poor that cryed and the Fatherless and him that had none to help him The blessing of him that was ready to perish came upon me and I caused the Widows heart to rejoyce I was a Father to the Poor and when I knew not the cause I sought it out diligently I brake also the jaws of the unrighteous man and pluckt the prey out of his teeth Our prayers are and shall be for you day and night to that God of glory by whom you reign and are advanced that He will pat it into your hearts to let these things enter into your thoughts and then we doubt not the evidence of them being such that you will be moved to repeal and make void all those cruel Laws which we most humbly beseech which persecute poor men only for matters of conscience not that we any way desire for our selves or others any the least liberty from the strict observation of any Civil Temporal or Humane Law made or to be made for the preservation of your Majesties Person Crown State or Dignity for all that give not to Caesar that which is his let them bear their burden but we only desire that God might have that which is his which is the heart and soul in that Worship that He requireth over which there is but one Lord Eph. 4.5 and one Law-giver who is able to save it or to destroy it Jam 4.12 which no mortal man can do It is not in your power to compel the heart you may compel men to be Hypocrites as a great many are who are false-hearted both towards God and the State which is sin both in you and them The vileness of persecuting the body of any man only for cause of Conscience is against the Word of God and Law of Christ It is against the profession of your Majesty against the profession and practice of famous Princes The antient and later approved Writers witness against it so do the Puritans yea the establishers of it the Papists themselves inveigh against it so that God and all men do detest it as is herein shewed And therefore in most humble manner we do beseech your Majesty your Highness your Honours your Worships to consider of it and do as God directeth you in his Word that cannot lye Let the Wheat and Tares grow together in the world until the harvest Matth. 13. And so in humble manner we proceed CHAP. I. The Rule of Faith is the Doctrine of the Holy Ghost contained in the Sacred Scriptures and not any Church Council Prince or Potentate nor any mortal man whatsoever PRoved by the Scriptures themselves which are the Writings of Moses and the Prophers the Evangelists and Apostles these are a sufficient Rule alone to try all Faith and Religion by our Reasons are 1. They are inspired of God and are able to make us wise unto salvation and perfect to every good work 2. Tim. 3.15 c. 2. Because these Writings are written that we might have certainly of the things whereof we are instructed Luke 1.4 That our joy might be full 1 Joh. 1.4 And that we might believe and in believing might have life John 20.31.3 We are commanded not to presame or be wise above what is written 1 Cor. 4.6 For with this weapon Christ put to flight the Devil Mat. 4.4 And taught his Disciples Luke 24.27 46. And Paul taught Christ Jesus Acts 17.2 The Godly are commended for searching the Scriptures Acts 17.11 All are commanded to search them John 5.39 And they that will not believe these Writings will not believe Christs Words John 5.47 nor one that should come from the Dead Luke 16.31 If any ask how we know all or any of these Scriptures to be inspired of God We answer The ear saith Job 12.11 discerneth words and the mouth tasteth meat for it self And as the eye discerneth the light of the Sun so doth our Spirit discern these Scriptures to be inspired of God and that for these