in prison or not he maye well examyne the truthe of the matter For truth ruleth in conscience what soo euer the order of the lawe be and therfore if the appelle in an appele of morder be founde gyltie the iudge of his owne knowelege knewe that he is not gyltie he may not gyue iugemeÌ„t agaynste hym but must rather resygne his office BIS I agree well there but I put case that the appelle in thy case be founde gyltie by false verdite the iuge by examination of wytnesse and by confessioÌ„ of the same iury also come to perfyt knowlege that the appelle is not gilty he may neuer the les in that case geue iugement and is bounde to do it for he toke the examination against the order of the law therfore he must remoue that knowlege bicause he is com to it of his owne wronge ageinst the order of the lawe euen so it is in this case The king ne yet his chanceler neither ought not to haue newli exaiÌ„ed the mater seing that it was sufficieÌ„tly tried proued before in the spiritual court therfore they must remoue put away the conscience that they haue gotten by that vnlawfull examination and beware that they doo not attempte soo farre ageynste the lawe an other tyme. SAL. Though the iudge in the sayde case of appele dyd ageynst the lawe to examyn new witnes yet it is not like to this case For in that case of appele the verdite is of recorde in the same court and it is giuen by auctorite of the same lawe that he sitteth as iuge to iuge vpon it is also tried after the order of the same law so that vpon that matter ther is no ferther trial wherfore I agre wel that he ought not to haue takeÌ„ ther any newe examination but in this case the sentence is giuen in an other court and after another lawe than the chauncellour is sette to iudge vppon For he is sette to iudge after conscience and not only after the order of the lawe spirituall nor temporall but in fewe cases and also the proces of excommunication is to punishe synne and to maynteyne vertue but what punysshement of synne and mayntenaunce of vertue is it if the kynge kepe hym that is no offender in prysone And therfore I thynke the kynge or his chauncellour may well take a newe examination in the matter and do therafter BIS I fele thy conceyte well but yet surely yf suche examination be vsed hit wyll be thoughte by many that the spirituall iurisdiction is therby greatly confounded and that the kynge and his lawes do littel in fauour of it SALEM I se well thou styckest soore to the matter and therfore to ease thy mynd somwhat therin I wyl moue the of two thynges BIS What be they SA One is this if the custome were that whan the excommunicate is in prison vppon the wrytte of Excommunicato capiendo that he shoulde be kepte styll in prison tylle he haue satisfied the churche whether he be ryghtwisely excommunicate or not were this a lawefull custome BIS I thynke naye SAL. And this pretence that thou styckest so moche vpon that there shoulde be no examination of the matter is of the same effect The secoÌ„de is if the parlyamente dyd put clerely away the wrytte of Excommunicato capiendo and lefte the matter in suche case that the ordinaries shulde iustifie al excommunicates by the censures of the churche in the beste maner they coude without any helpe of the kynge or of his lawes shulde the parlyament therby do any wronge to the keys of the churche BY. I thynke nay for the power of the clergie concernynge suche excommunications shulde neuer the les stond styll in her full strength But yet it shoulde breake a good laudable custome of the realme that was fyrst begon in fauour of the clerge of the spiritual iurisdiction SAL. thou sayste euen truth and my meanyng is not that I wolde haue that custome broken but that it shulde appere that thoughe hit were broken that yet no maÌ„ had cause to complaine as thoughe the lybertie of the churche were therby brokin or the keis violate wherfore me thinketh it more expedient for the clergie to take this matter as it is that is to saye that the kynge and his lawes be as well contente to haue suche rebelles as haue deserued punishment yet wyl not obey the keys of the church correctio as they be but yet that the kynge his lawes shoulde therfore in any case be compelled whether they wolde or not to punishe an Innocente it is not resonable thus it shuld seme to be the more indiffereÌ„t way more accordynge with iustice that the mater be examined before the king that if it appere thervpon that the partie offended not that he be deliuerid out of prison that the ordryng of the excoÌ„munication be thervpon lefte to the conscience of the byshop theÌ„ to charge the kinges conscience or his chauncellours eyther with kepynge of hym in prison And then to that thou hast said before that if such excoÌ„munications be taken that it wyl be thought by many that the kyng his lawes do litel in fauour of the spiritual iurisdiction I pray the be iuge therin thy self whether it be moch or litel that the kyng doth whaÌ„ he only vpon the certificat of the bishop taketh the ê‘tie leyeth him in prison there kepith him til he either satisfieth the church or els if he complaine that he hath wronge examineth the mater he being in prison how be it I think that the kiÌ„g in such case may if he se cause let the ê‘tie to bayl haÌ„ging the examination though the shereffe by the reson of the statute of westmÌ„ i. may not do it And nowe to our first matter If the kynge wolde iudge vppon Simony and vsury thynkest thou that he shulde offende the keys BYZANCE I thynke soo for symonye and vsurye be prohibited by the lawe of god and it belongeth to the clergi to declare what is the lawe of god and what not SA Though symonie and vsury be prohibite by the law of god yet that proueth not that princis may not therfore hold ple therof for takyng away of an other mannes goodes and also periurye be prohibyte by the lawe of god and yet princes holde plee therof and thoughe Symonye and vsurye be prohibite by the lawe of god yet it is not declared by the lawe of god what is symonie and vsery and what not And it semeth that princis takyng to them spirituall men as theyr counsailours maye doo that well ynough And if it were ordered that for symonye that the kynges courte shulde holde plee I suppose it wolde doo moche good For hit is not vnlyke but that manye offende therin and yet I here but of lyttell correction in that behalfe And therfore thoughe the kynge iudged vppon symonie and vserye I suppose he offended not
⧠THE ADDICIONS OF SALEM AND BYZANCE LONDINI IN AEDIBVS THOMAE BERTHELETI REGII IMPRESSORIS ANNO DO M.D.XXXIIII ▪ Cum priuilegio The introduction BISAN I haue many tymes sith the makyng of our fyrst dialoge which is called Salem Byzāce remebred the Articles of the treatise that is called the tretise concernyng the Diuisyon betwixt the spiritualtie the tēporaltie whiche was the verye occasion of makynge of our sayd fyrst dialoge And I thynke verily that yf the abusions that be recited in the sayde treatyse and other lyke were refourmed great peace and quietnes wold shortly folowe amonge the people And therfore if thou woldest my frende Salem to encorage them that haue good zeale towarde a refourmation of suche abusions take the peyne to recyte some mo thynges that be mysused and ouer that woldest deuise some meanes howe they myght also be reformed I thynke it wolde do greatte good SALEM I shall my frende Byzance with good wyll do that in me is to accomplysshe thy desyre ¶ Of dyuers abusyons concernynge some of the seuen sacramentes and dyuers other thynges as here after foloweth The fyrste Chapytre SAL Many curates haue taken vppon them to saye that they be not bounde to minister the sacramentes to the people onles they be required and that speciallye the sacrament of extreme vnction whiche commonly is called anoyllynge And yet the truthe is that they are bounde to gyue a great diligence therto them self and specially to admonyshe theym that be aboute the sycke persone that they may haue knowledge when nede shall require And therfore if any dye without that sacrament for lacke of suche good diligence of the curate surely it is in hym a great offence 2. ¶ Also it hath ben a great default in many places that the curates wyll not synge masse nor dirige for none of their paryshens at theyr buryals no more than they wyll do for straungers that dyed within the parysshe excepte they haue money for theyr labour for sythe they haue of theyr paryshens theyr tythes offrynges and dyuers other profytes and commodities as curates customably haue Charitie wolde that they shulde burye them especially that be householders and theyr chylderne with dirige and masse freely without takynge any thynge for it but to saye masse and dirige for straungers they be not bounde therto but of their charite But yet to bury all them frely that dye within the paryshe they are bounde of duetie to do it ¶ Also it is greatte trouble and vexation to the people in many places that the sacrament of confirmation is taken fro the propre curates and is gyuen only to byshoppes For therby the people in some places be many tymes put to greatte labours and expences in gyuynge attendaunce to the bysshoppes And also many chylderne be therby in some countreyes longe vnconfyrmed and sometyme dye without it where if the curates myght confyrme theym as they myght fyrste they shulde be confyrmed with lesse labour and be in moche more greater suertie to haue the sacrament then they be nowe And sythe byshoppes haue taken that auctoritie to them selfe and no greatter consideration apperynge why they shulde do so then there dothe It myght happely cause some symple men to esteme that there is not suche necessitie in that sacrament as there is in dede For they may happely thinke that if there were the byshops wolde not put the children in suche ieoperdie to be so longe without it as they be ofte by that occasion and no greatter cause to moue them to it then they thynke there is ¶ The prohybitinge also of bysshops to graunt pardons hath letted greatly the deuocyon to pardons and the takynge of money for herynge of confessions and specially at pardons hathe also done right great hurt For there is a sayeng the mo confessions the greatter profyt Wherby it is ment that the profyte in heryng confessions is moche regarded And that hath made many tymes ryght short confessions and also as light as hasty absolutions which perauenture hath made some vnware and vnlerned persons to haue the lesse regarde to be confessed 5. ¶ And why shuld the power of absolution that was gyuen by Christe to all priestes be generally taken from them in any case and specially from curates that be admytted to be sufficiēt to haue cure of soules and be cōmytted only to byshops or to theyr deputies which deputies percase be not many tymes so sufficient as the curates be fro whome it is takē so that it semeth that the power of pristes is restrayned in that behalfe by the lawe of man without cause resonable and wolde therfore be reformed 6. ¶ Also it wolde be playnly declared where the curate may prohibite his parishens to be houseled where not And surely it semeth not to stand with charitie that if a paryshener at the tyme of his houselyng lacke money to pay his duetie that he shuld be therfore prohibit of houselynge And sure it is that great grudges haue ensued in tymes past vpon suche matters A prieste if he wyl may go to masse though he be in deedly synne and no manne can prohibite hym but if the curate onely by coniecture thynke his parysshener in deedly synne he wyll prohibite him 7. ¶ Also curious buildynges of spirituall men and the apparel therof whiche sometyme be apparelled with vaine stories stereth more theym that beholdeth it to vanitie and to a worldly loue then to any mekenes or deuotion And though it be right conuenient that byshops and other spirituall rulers haue conuenient dwellyng places after their degree yet all wolde be ordered to the honour of god and to the good example of the people ¶ Also it diminysheth the deuocion of priestes greattely in many places that there haue ben so many chapplens and seruynge priestes For they that be vniuersally conuersant amonge laye people and be bounde to obserue worldely attendaunce as lay men are can neuer haue their minde so perfitly to prayer deuotion as they that be curates or be continually resident in churches For lyke as there is a mery prouerbe in places of courte that the very walles teache the lawe and that euerye busshe in the countrey teareth away a pece so it maye be saide that the very walles of the churche teache deuotion and that worldly company driueth it awaye ageyne And whenne they be in youthe brought vp in suche worldly company it wyll be harde for them in age to sette their mynde to prayer and contemplation And surely if lay menne wolde be contented for preseruynge of deuotion in priestes to forbeare the seruyce and familyaritee of theym more then they haue done in tyme past and wolde here masse and diuine seruice whenne they myghte conueniently at their parysshe churches at the leste on holydays and when they may here none wold supply it with prayer or some other good werkes they shulde more please almyghty god therby and more shewe them selfe to honour the sacrament
occupyed in more vrgent causes for the common welthe byshops and spiritual rulers haue loked vpon suche canonisations whiche the people haue obeyed and princis haue assented and therin they haue done ryght well and after by the long continuance and sufferance they haue claymed that they of ryght and none but they ought to do it and yet haue they not only claymed that to the hole clergie but haue so handeled the matter that it hath bene broughte onely to the see of Rome to do it And thervpon pretence hath ben made that who so euer that see wyll appoynt to be taken as holy and blessed shall be so taken vpon the peyne of herisie and to be taken as a scismatike deuyded froo god and his church and whether that hath ben a great ouersight and a right great abusion or not it is apparant BYZ. If one prince auctorised one as a saint yet perauenture an other prince wold not so accept hym and so it might happen to make variances betwixt the countreyes when one wolde take one as holy and blessed and the other not SAL. And therfore it were moste conuenient that it shulde be done at a generall counsayle And that princis and their ambassadours shoulde be therin iudges takyng the spiritualtie as their counsaylours in that behalfe as is said before BIZ. If a man wolde say abydingly that Peter and Iohn̄ were not holye I suppose hit were herisie why shuld it not be so likewise when a saint is canonysed and the people hathe of longe tyme accepted hym for holy and blessed be herisie to say abidingly that he were not holy ne blessed SAL. To saye that Peter and Iohn̄ or any other of the apostels were not holy and blessed it were ageynst scripture For our lorde said to the apostels Luce. 22. I ordeyne to you as my father hath ordeyned to me the kyngdom of heuen that ye shall syt vpon my table in my kyngdome iugyng the .xii. tribus of Israel No man therfore may say that the .xii. apostelles be not in heuen but he saye ageynst scripture And so the very scripture is a sufficiente canonisation for them But it is apparant inough that it is not so of other saintes that be not canonised by scripture though they haue by reson of their holy life miracles bē accepted for saintes neuer so long And therfore though a man that wold say that he that were so canonised were not worthy to be canonisid did not wel ne were not to be cōmended bycause he went so far fro the cōmon opiniō of the people of that the clergie hath approued yet it shuld seme not to be herisy to say it BI what is it then to say that a nother mā that is not canonised is as good as high in heuen as Peter or Iohn̄ SAL. Surely it were a foule presumption a great ouersight to saye it but yet it were no heresie For it denieth not but that Peter Iohn̄ be in heuen and I trust that there ar none of that opinion And if any mā of malice to make a rumor amonges people wyl report that there be certeyn persons of that opinion they offended right greuousely therin And surely suche reportes haue done great hurt and wold be wel loked vpon here after For there be many so light of credence that though the thing spoken be to the hurt of a right gret multitude of people yet they wil anon report it ouer to other not knowing that it is true that thei say .29 And now if thou wilt giue me the hering I wyl shew the a litil of my cōceite cōcerning the chap. Oīs utriusque sexus which is ex de pen. ramiss BI what thinkest thou of that chaptre SA That it is not so resonable in one point as me thinketh it shuld be that for this cause euery person man woman after that he or she comith to the yeres of discreciō shal therby specially ones in the yere be cōfessed to theyr owne priest wherby is vnderstande theyr owne Curate howe be it it is decreed after in the same chapitre that if a man vppon a iuste cause wyll be confessed to an other prieste he shal fyrst aske licēce of his owne prieste and opteyne it for els the other prieste as it is sayde there maye nother loose hym nor bynde hym But it is not expressedly declared in the sayd chapitre that yf a man vpon a iuste cause aske lycence of his propre priest to be shriuen in an other place he of malice or frowardnes refuseth to gyue hym licence whether he may thervpon be shriuen at his liberte in an other place som haue sayde that in that case the paryshen is bounde to go to the superiour and that he may compelle the curate to gyue lycence And some other haue sayde that the superiour may in suche case giue licence him selfe And many curates pretende the contrary bycause the wordes of the sayd chapitre be so generall that lycence must be opteyned And therfore they say in al cases the paryshens must be shriuen of their propre curates oneles the curat be content to gyue lycence to the contrary And therfore for a more clere waye in conscience in this behalfe many parysshens haue in tymes paste obteyned froo Rome that they myghte chose theym an able confessour and a greatte multitude of suche lycences haue bene pourchased as it is well knowen whiche hathe be right great charge to the people in many places And yet curates haue holdē that not withstondynge suche licences religious men bycause they be neyther elected by the people ne appoynted by the byshoppe to haue the execution of a pristes power ouer the peple be none able confessours and dyuers men haue ben of the same opinion And therfore a ferther question hath ben moued ther vpon that if any religious men haue opteyned a priuilege that they may enioyne penaunce to the people whether that then they be able confessours so that they may laufully here the confession of an other mans parysshen that hath suche a pardon as is afore rehersed and no lycence of his curate or not and yet many curates haue sayde nay And the glose vpon the same chapytre Omnis vtriusque sexus vpon these wordes Alieno sacerdoti is of that opinion as to the reder wyll appere ¶ And by these diuersities of opinions haue risen great variances and striues bytwixte curates and theyr parishens where most loue and charitie shuld be to the right great peryl and daunger of the soules of many persons it is veray lyke so to do as longe as it shall be suffered to contynue as it dothe It semeth therfore right expedient that the rulers prouide a conuenyent remedye in this poynte in as reasonable time as they can ¶ And ferthermore if spiritual reulers wolde now in this daungerous tyme for the auoydyng of suche abusions as be here before remembred and of dyuers other here omytted wherby