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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	bishop_n	king_n	matter_n	1,577	5	5.6457	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A01004	God and the king. Or a dialogue wherein is treated of allegiance due to our most gracious Lord, King Iames, within his dominions Which (by remouing all controuersies, and causes of dissentions and suspitions) bindeth subiects, by an inuiolable band of loue and duty, to their soueraigne. Translated out of Latin into English.; Deus et rex. English	Floyd, John, 1572-1649.; More, Thomas, 1565-1625, attributed name.	1620 (1620)	STC 11110.7; ESTC S107002	53,200	142

the new oath For their standing with such daunger against an oath which they thinke vniust shewes they will not for humane respects sweare but what really they beleeue to be true● nor promise but what they truly meane to performe It may be iustly supposed that these men as they will rather dye then sweare Allegiance which they think not due so they wil loose their liues sooner then neglect the allegiance they haue once sworn And though they cannot frame their consciences to sweare the speculatiue denyall of th● Pop●s authority to depose Princes in some circumstances imagin●●le yet they are ready to sweare that in practise they will stand with the King against ●ll treasons and in al quarrells not openly and vnexcusably vniust Such as persuade his Maiesty to neglect such loyall offer of loue I pray God their trecherous flattery bring him not into occasions that he may need the helpe of such trusty subiects This we see that already the flaterers haue brought him to engage his Honor for the ouerthrow of the Popes authority in this poynt which is the fourth cōsideration that I made promise to present vnto you For I cannot thinke the successe wil be such as might become the enterprise of so great a Monarch Philanax The power to depose Kings at his pleasure which the Pope challenge●h so sauoureth of presumption is so odious that his Maiesty needs not feare the successe of so plausible a quarrell Aristobulus This authority hath ●yn now many yeares together impugned and the abiuration thereof vrged vnder gri●uous penalties What haue we gayned or rather could this doctrine haue more preuailed then by this opposition it hath done Before this stirre I know some learned Papists denyed that authority in the Pope many that held it thought it not a poynt of Faith but the more probable opinion and in France that opinion might scarce be spoken of Now find me a popish Priest that houlds it or thinks that doctrine tollerable in their Church When the matter was vrged in France to haue a like oath enacted did not both Clergy Nobility stand against it When Cardinall Per●ns speach for the Popes authority to depose K●nges was printed what Papist durst p●t his name to an answere We know that that doctrin forsaken of the Papists of France was forced to fly for succour to his Maiestie● pen. Some Papists complayne that we change the state of the question of purpose to make their doctrine odious Which is not that the Pope may depose Princes at his pleasure but in case of necessity But this change of the question to me seemes not so disgraceful to the Pope as to our ●hospell that after so great promises to burne Rome and ouerthrow Popery the heat of al our controuersies worketh vpon this poynt Whether Kings for their Crownes be the Popes tenants at will Would the Pope renounce his right in this point for the rest we would not greatly care to giue ouer When I co●sider the late quarrell begun by our King Henry the 8. against the Pope me thinks the successe thereof hath been much like that of the Carthaginians vnder Haniball against the auncient Common wealth of Rome At the first the Carthaginians so farre preuailed as they got most part of Italy from the Romans and fought with them about the walls of Rome Within a while fortune so changed that the Carthaginians were driuen backe into Africke warre w●s there maintained that much adoe they had to saue their own● Carthage Our Kings in the beginning stroue with the Pope for supremacy in spiri●ua●l things many Papists euen Bishops stood with the King that the Pope was in danger to loose his Miter The more that matters were searched into the more did the Popes cause daily preuaile so that not only Papists be now cleerly resolued in that point as in a most notorious truth but also Puritans mislike Princes supremacy and euen Protestants as far as they da●e go paring away peeces from it And now the Pope secure of supremacy in spirituall things pretends right to dispose of Crownes when the necessity of Religion shall require it And who seeth not that euen in this controuersy they dayly winne ground Had not we s●t our s●lues to impugne this authority had not so many books fr●ught with weak arguments which Papists conf●te with great shew of truth on their side beene written against it had not Priests lost their liues lay Papists their liuings for it I am perswaded it might haue beene buried in obliuio● or at least within their schooles haue beene kept from common peoples ●ares Now persecutiō hath made the question so famous as it will hardly be forgotten the bloud shed for the affirmatiue part thereof hath printed the same deepe in many m●ns conceipts yea the death of men so graue learned and pious hath made some Protestants that hated it before cast vpon it a more fauourable looke Per arma per caedes abipso Sumit opes animumque serro And this is a very remarkable proceeding of Popery different from the course of our Ghospell The light of our Ghospell shined exceeding bright at the first there was no diuision amongest our Ghospellers it stirred vp in mens harts wonderfull zeale● that as one noteth out of pure light they did not consider what they did and i● their zeale their goods lands children wiues and liues were not greatly deere vnto them With time this light waxed dymmer and dymmer the doctrine lesse certaine they grew into factions and sects and therupon their zeale b●came could that now the greatest feare is as oftentimes from one extreme men are prone to fall into the cleane opposite least the supposed cleere shining of truth make men vncerten and not greatly zealous of any Religion at all The Papists contrarywise when controuersies are first raised are very wary and circumspect their censures be not absolute there are commonly diuers opinions amongest them the more that Scriptures Fathers Councells testimonies of antiquity and reasons are examined the more they grow into consent the more resolute and immoueable they become in their doctrine m●re z●alous one day then another to giue their liues for it This course they hold in the doctrine of the Popes power which in the beginning was taught neither so certainly nor vniuersally nor zealously as now it is and wil be euery day more and more except these controuersies be remoued from vulgar examination which cannot be so long as the oath is vrged seeing such as are to sweare must least they be forsworne search into the certainty of this Truth and read bookes that treat of that argument And when no other inconuenience should ensue of this course this alone might moue the prudent frends of Kings to labour the silencing of this controuersy that the wordes of deposing and murthering Gods annointed which should be buried in the depth of amazement horror come by vulgar disputation to sound familiarly in euery eare

holdes this his ground of Soueraignty● The Kinge hath no superiour but God alone i● ●lippery and vncertayne that he dares not stand vpon it himself For elswhere contradicting this principle he ●aith in playne termes that Kings that ●aue giuē their names vnto Christ are sheepe of ●is fold so are to obey their spirituall pastors ●auing ouersight ouer them that they are to be ●bedient vnto their spirituall Pastors as Em●assadors from Christ th●t● Kings and Bishops ●e mutually Pastors and Superiors one to the ●ther Yf Bishops be ouerseers Pastors Superiors to the King how is it true ●hat the King hath no superiour but God alone Yf nothing be more excellent no●hing more sublime then a Bishop as our Theodidact approuing S. Ambrose his ●aying teacheth ●o wit in spirituall ●nd Ecclesiasticall causes which to ad●minister they are sent how can a King ●e more excellent then a Bishop in ●hose causes Is it possible that the same man should be superior and subiect to ●he same persons in respect of the same Court I confesse I cannot vnderstand this diuinity that subiects may iudg ●heir Superiors euen in those causes wherin they are subordinate to them That the Kinge supreme Gouernour of the Church may be sententially summoned arrai●gned and cast out of the Church by a Bishop ● Yf soueraigne Princes may be iudge● by their subiects in those causes wherin they are supreme and independant what doth their supremacy auaile thē● Yf supreme gouernors of the Churc● may be cast out of the Church by thei● Bishops that ar● their spirituall subiects what solid reason can Theodidac● assigne why Soueraignes may not like●wise be cast out of their Kingdome by their Barons and Peeres thoug● they be their vassalls Philanax I could wish our Authors concerning the Kings supremacy spake mor● coherently yet seeing this proposition the King hath no superior but Go● alone doth so much extoll the Soue●raignty of Kings I can not be brough● to forsake Theodidact herein except b● the confutation of his reasons I perceaue this pillar of Maiestye to be vncertayne and vnsound Aristobulus Small reading and skill in Scri●ture is suffici●nt to shew that Theodidacts arguments against Papists be not so conuincing as we may securely ground the authority of Kinges ther●pon For either th●● make nothing to the purpose or els proue what Papists do not deny that the King is supreme in temporalls His mayn●●round and principle is that in the old Testament Priests were not superior to Kings but rather that Kings were their Iudges Could he haue assumed a doctrine more vncertaine or rather more false then is this A doctrine against the learnedst of the Iewes Iosephus saith that to their Priests not to Kings was committed the custody of the Law and the charge of greatest affaires so that they were ouerseers of all Iudges of controuersies and punisher of offenders Philo writeth that Priestly dignity is preferred before royall by the Iewes who iudge Priesthood by so much the more excellent then Royalty by how much God surpasseth man With whom● agree the Chri●tian Fathers namely S. Chrysostome auerring that God woul● haue Kings submit their heads to the hands of Priests that men might vnderstand that Priest● are more worthy Princes and more venerable then are Kings Yea the word of God se●meth ●o distinguish the office of high Priest from the office of King assigning to the high Priest the care of things that pertayne to God to the Kinge the ch●rge of temporall affayres And who conuersant in the old Testament knoweth not that to the high Pri●●● was giuen the supreme and last power to decide all controuersies about the law VVhosoeuer shal be proude and refuse to obey the sentence of the Priest let that man dye the death Philanax These testimony of the Fathers and Scriptures seeme very vrgent But hath not Theodidact made some answere to them Aristobulus No nor brought any proof of his opinion besides the bare example of ●alomon that deposed Abiathar the high Priest ●nd placed Sadocke in his roome ● But first be ●roues not that Salomon deposed Abia●har lawfully that therein he exceeded ●ot the boundes of his authority The deeds of Kings be not euer iustifiable ●or was Salomon such a Saint that we may thinke all his actiōs praise worthy without further proof Secondly he proueth not that Salomon deposed Abia●har by the ordinary power of King Papists say Salomon did in that action proceed not as King but as Prophet Which answere Theodidact doth not confute but misvnderstand as though they me●nt that Salomon was therfore a Prophet because he fulfilled what God had foretould against the house of Heli which he reiecteth with a iest that so Herod might be tearmed a Prophet in murthering the Innocents because therin he ●ulfilled what God by Ieremie had foretolde But the Papists be not so absurde as to say that whosoeuer fulfilleth a prophecy is a Prophet nor that Iudas in betraying his Maister and hanging himself was a Prophet though therin he fulfilled prophecies They say that God to the end that what he had threatned a●gainst the house of Heli might come t● passe he gaue to Salomon propheticall extraordinary Commission to depos● Abi●thar high Priest of the stock of Hel● Salomons royall authority not bein● sufficie●● for the lawfull performanc● thereof Which doctrine is so solid● that Theodidact not being able to ouer●throw it by argument thought goo● to make it ridiculous by mistaking it● Finally though we graunt that Salo●mon deposed Abiathar and by Kingly authority the most that may be thenc● in●erred is that Salomon was suprem● in temporall affaires and might pu●nish Priests in case of Treason Whic● notwithstanding in things pertayning t● God Princes might be subiect to th● high-Priest for spiritual crimes ten●ding to the ouerthrow of Religion● might be deposed And in my opinion it is want o● iudgment in them that would b● thought friends to Kings to stir th● stories of the old Testamēt which for one high Priest desposed by a King witho●t cleere approbation of the ●act yeeldeth two soueraigne Princes deposed by the high Priest and their deposition warranted by the holy Ghost Did not Iehoida high-Priest depose Athalia Queene pronounce sentence of death vpon her and in ●er roome make Ioas King Did not Azarias high-Priest cast King Ozias out of the Temple depriue him of gouernment for his presu●ptuous vsurping the Priestly office to offer inc●n●e to the Lord What needed Theodidact to prouoke Papists to bring forth these examples for the Popes authority two for one and such as he to aunswere thē is driuen to very hard shift● What he saith concerning Athalia that she was not lawfull Queene but an vsurper he neither proueth nor is it very proba●ble She came blodily vniustly to the Crown but this doth not cōuince that she was not afterward righful Queen They who

vsing at his death these words Because I haue loued Iustice and hated wickednesse I now dy in banishment Vrbane that succeded Gregory both in office and in zeale against the Emperour being driuē out of Italy into France hauing so great need of the Kings assistance yet was he so voide of humane respects that at that very time he excommunicated Philip King of France for putting away his true wife and liuing in open incest The Kinge saith an vnpartiall Historian threatned that except Vrbane would restore him to the Church Crowne he wold depart with his whole Kingdome from his obedience the obedience of the Roman Sea yet this moued not that most holy Bishop to relent In fine Philip was faine to yeeld not being able to extort otherwise releasment from excommunication and so religion conscience preuailed ouer th● Scepter and the Diademe the inuincible Maiesty and Name of King So admirable for constancy were those Popes that vsed their authority to depose wicked Emperors so free from loue of the world that we may ius●ly thinke God fauoured their cause H●●soeuer their perpetuall good successe for so many ages against all aduersaries though the reason therof be hidden may giue iust cause in my opinion for Kings to be wary how they aduenture their Crownes vpon preuailing against them and how they deuise new oathes of Allegiance that wage warre against the authority of their Sea And this is the last thing which I desire to leaue to be seriously pondered by you that loue the King so I cōclude praying the Lord hartily that as hitherto he hath defended Kingly authority in our great Britany frō open enemies so now he will defend the same from secret plots and trayterous Treatises which by shew of friendship seek the ouerthrow thereof Philanax I am glad Aristobulus that wee fell into this discourse in which you haue cleerly discryed Theodidacts fraudulent vndermining of Royall Authority The publishers of that booke besides their secret plotting agaynst 〈◊〉 ●oueraignty of Princes seeme like●●●● to haue had an eye to their owne ●uere in the di●ulging therof For there being a commaund that this Booke both in publicke and priuate schooles be read to Children of both sexes ech booke sold for six pence which is hardly worth two pence you must needs see a great summe of money that hēce is yearely made a summe I say so great as doth farre surpasse the custome of the Peter-pence which in old time euery house payed to the Pope Notwithstanding at this their enriching themselues by this deuise I do not so much grieue but I am hartily sory that so many odious vngrounded positions cōcernin● Royall Authority that may raise vp horror rather thē loue of Kinges be instilled into the tender mindes of Childrē which afterward when any occasion is giuen may soone turne into hatred But thereof yo● haue spoken inough Wherfore I likewise will end with your harty good wishes towardes his Maiesty and our most gracious Prince Charles beseching the Almighty to defend them both and to giue them the spirit of wised 〈◊〉 wherby they may discouer these ●●●●sons hidden with a shew of friendshipp The Printer to the Reader THIS Treatise gentle Reader may seeme written by some English Protestant agaynst some Puritans enemies of Kingly Soueraignity which by them in former times openly impugned they now seeke to ouerthrow by groūding the same vpon odious and ●aungerous Positiōs touching the immunity of Tyrants The Authour disputeth the questiō of this weighty subiect in such moderate stile and manner bringing 〈…〉 ns both solide and not reg 〈…〉 ing with Catholike doctrine that he may be thought to be in opinion Catholike though for modesties sake to the end that this truth might be more pleasingly accepted of Protestants in this worke he discourseth as if he were Protestant And for this reason some Catholike arguments he doth pretermit others he doth not vrge to the vttermost partly for breuityes sake but cheefly because his intēt is no more then to shew that the new Protestants principles from which they deduce R●yall Authority be at the least doubtfull and vncertayne And this he doth cleerly demonstrate and thence concludes that it is against the rules euen of humane policy to forsake the most sure grounds of Soueraigne Power in Kinges whereon Christian Kingdomes relying haue hitherto stood firme and florished vnd 〈…〉 Catholike discipline iust l 〈…〉 and to build the sacred authority of Princes whereon their peoples safety dependes vpon the new vngrounded Doctrines Paralogismes of Scriptures which seemes to haue byn the drift of the former Dialogue For this cause I thought it would not be amisse nor lost labour to put the same in print renewed before hand corrected The title God and the King I would not alter because i● two wordes it doth fully put down● the Catholike opinion concerning Princes Authority their subiects Allegiance For as this trea●ise doth i●sinuate three opinions in this poynt now are in Englād The first of Puritās who wil haue God without King or else such a King that must depend on the peoples beck 〈◊〉 their Consistoriā Preachers 〈…〉 ose perfidious audacity his ●●●esty hath had sufficient experience The second is of Politicians who haue no more Christianity then Parlamentary decrees breath into them These will haue King without God or at least King and God that is God so longe and no longer then the King shall please whome they will haue still obeyed though he go openly about to extinguish the light of Christian Religion The third opinion is of Catholik●s whose ●ote is God and the King● in the first place they worship God in the second the King to whome they giue all Allegiance and subiection as farre as Religion and conscience will permit And this is to giue what is Caesars to Caesar and what is Gods to God Farewell FINIS Dial. God and the Kinge pag. 2. Dial. p. 33. 34. ●peach in the Star-chamber 16.6 Bancroft in the Dangerous po●itiōs p. 33. Psal. 84. v. 16. 2. Thessal ● 2 v. 10. Hooker Ecclesiast pol. prefac p. 28. Hooker ibid. p. 29. Suruey of the holy ●iscipline p. 93. (a) Ba●il Dor. p 40. 41. (b) Knox. histor of the Church of Scot. p. 265. Dang po●it p. 11. (c) Sleydan l. 28. l. 22. O●ian Epist. cent 16. p. 566. (d) Cuspin of the Church of France p. 625 Ferres histor p. 588. (e) Osiand ibid. p. 94. (f) Chitr●eus in chron p. 71 (g) Fulk answere to the declam of P. ●rarines (h) Dang posit l ● c. ● 4● seq (i) Suruey of the disc p. 101. (k) Dang po●it Suruey and others by D. Bancroft (l) Principes sunt omnium quos terra ●ustinet s●ultis●imi deterrimi nebulones Tō 2. Ger. ●en de mag saecul fol. 200. (m) Cal. in Dan. cap. 6. v. 22. (n) Knox to Engl. Scotl. fol. 78. (o) Buchā de i●●e Reg.

himselfe Many who now haue Kings and their maiesti●s most frequent in their mouth still ●arbor we may feare the same affecti●n in their hartes to be freed from thē Yea some Puritanes of the last Parlament in their discontented meetings were bold to propose the changing of the gouernment of the Realme ●rom Monarchy into Democracy Nor may such men● that haue been once tayn●ed with this Con●storiall affection be therfore trusted because they are content to take vpon them the dignity of Bishops wherein they may dissemble by their owne doctrine retayning it not as a sacred but as a temporall office from the Prince and vs● it to set vp the discipline These couert enemies of Kings want not their Confederates in France whose mindes and desires Turquet a famous French Protestant expresseth in his booke written in commendatiō of Democracy aboue Monarchy nor in Holland to which ●his French Democratist Turquet dedi●ated his aforesayd booke as to men ●llready made blessed by this kind of gouernment and fittest instruments ●o bring the same into the rest of reformed Countries Of these enemies o● Monarchy so combined togeather so neighbouring vpō vs so subtile as they lye hiddē vnder roche●s corner caps in the shape of Bishops and their adherents we haue more need to take heed then of the Pope who is further off his cause not popular his party not like to preuaile by force his followers rather ready to dye then they wil dissēble their Religion as these others do Philanax I perceaue by your discourse that more treachery against Kings may be couched in these plausible discourses then I could euer haue imagined The Troians were not wise that trusted the guifts of the Grecians nor can I thinke it policy to rest secure of the bookes or writings which those that once were Puritans publish to flatter the state or the Prince pretending affection to soueraignty which their Religion doth so mightily and so intrinsecally oppugne I feare that as within the Troian horse armed enemies lurked so vnder this new deuised allegiance ●●aytors lye hidden who when they ●●e their time wil shew themselues like ●o many firebrands to incense the ●eople against Kings that challenge ●uch infinite and hatefull authority Aristobulus You feare not without cause yf you ●onsider that by this deuise the authors ●herof who would ●ule themselues a●one do nothing but practise the Ma●hiauilian meanes to attayn therunto They seek to seperate the King from ●hose whose loue may stand him in most steed The foure propositions be●ore set downe make him enter into o●ious competency with foure Aduer●aries The first breeds him a quarrell with the Common wealth from whom he will not haue his power de●iued The second puts him into con●ention with the Church to whose ●irection and censures he wil not haue ●is Crowne subordinate The third ●rings him into hatred of mankind by ●hallenging an irresistable power to ●yranize vpon man at his pleasure The ●ourth conteynes an open ●trife with God for precedence requiring of th● Common weal●h in case they canno● enioy both that they be content t● want rather God then their King An● these quarrells are moued vpon weak● titles and claymes grounded on doctrines either vncertayne or apparantly false and so odious as were the● true yet were it not fit to discuss● them in vulgar Treatises Philanax I see these doctrines are odious an● I nothing doubt but they are likewis● vngrounded yet I desire that you wi● seuerally shew both these things in euery one of the foure propositions tha● I may be better instructed to discoue● the treacherous entendments of thes● counterfeit friendes of Maiesty Aristobulus I will do my endeauour to satisfy your request First I will examine the foure aforesaid Propositions which done I meane to speake a word concerning the Oath which Theodidact buildeth vpon them as vpon foure ●●llers And to beginne with the first ●●at the king hath power from God only inde●endently of the Common wealth ●ecause this is the ground of all his di●course and of the other three I will ●ore fully shew the vnsoundnes there●f that the world may see that Theodi●●ct as either a most vnkillfull Archi●ect that layes so weake a principle of ●he building he p●e●eds to raise to the ●kye or a subtill Arch-traytor pur●osely placing the Soueraignty of Kings which he desires may fall vpon ● most ruinous foundation Three be the wayes by the which ●en come to be Kings popular electi●n lawfull conquest Gods personall ●ppointment sp●cially reuealed I say ●pecially reuealed for I nothing doubt ●ut Kings by the two other titles be made by Gods speciall prouidence The title of election depends on mens ●artes The title of Conquest vpon ●attailes which are two things most ●ncertaine and their successe only in Gods hand who bestoweth popular ●auour and victory in warre on whom ●e will For this re●son it is sayd that Kings raign by him that he placeth thē in their throne ruleth in the Kingdome of men giueth it to whome soeuer he please not that h● maketh Monarches without secōdary causes but because these secondary causes worke not but by the speciall direction of his hand● Wherefore the titles of Election and Conquest be spe●cially from God though not only immediatly from him as is the third clayme when God by speciall reuelation declares his will to haue some certayne person King as he did Saul and Dauid Philanax You omit Succession which is a clayme to the Crowne Aristobulus Succession in bloud is not a prim● and originall title but a meanes to deriue to posterity these three fornamed claymes from Auncestors that first enioyed them none of which titles do sufficiently institute a person King● without the consent of common-wealth When a King is made by ele●●ion the case is cleere but the Con●ueror seemes to come to the crowne ●gainst the Commonwealths will In ●eed the right of Conqueror he may ●aue will they nil they yet Royall ●uthority ouer them he cannot haue ●ithout their graunt The right of ●awfull Conquest binds the state con●uered to make the conquerour their King vpon iust conditions which he ●ay prescribe heauy or hard according ●o the quantity of their offence Yf ●hey refuse to yield he hath the right ●f the sword to force them not the ●ight of Prince to gouerne them till ●hey consent This consent being ●ielded then there begins a new So●iety and Commonwealth compacted ●f ●onquerors and the people con●uered and the Prince of the conque●ing side becomes Kinge to gouerne ●hem both according to the lawes and ●onditions agreed vpon which condi●●ons if he neglect he is no lesse sub●●ct and corrigible by the Common-●ealth then Kings made by ele●tion When God personally appoints any one to be Kinge as he did Saul Dauid neither then haue Kings pow●er immediatly and only from God God is sayd to haue made Saul an● Dauid Kings because he eternall● decreed they should be Kings in du● tyme reuealed

And without doubt by this their familiar acquaintance with the word part of the horror against the action is lost Which may be the cause that where speach against the Pops authority for deposing of Kings hath been rifest most vulgar those Countries for practise against the life of their Kinges haue been most vnfortunate Whereas Spayne hath seene no such tragicall practise nor any attempt thereo● but hath enioyed a longe happy peace where the questions how to proceede with Tyrants are freely permitted to the schooles without any popular declamations agaynst Scholastical● opiniōs in this poynt Philanax I must confesse that I haue been my selfe much deceaued in my expectation about the suc●esse of Papists in this controuersy When I considered the circumstances of the contention the doctrine impugned not gratefull to Princes not so cleerly decided in their Church by some of their writers denied the person impugning by sword and penne a Monarch mighty learned beloued euen of Popish Potentates and this at a tyme of great aduantage vpon the gunpowder treason which was vrged as a sequell of this doctrine that euen the greatest fauorers therof seemed fearfull These circumstances made me think that P●pery would receaue a great blow and that his Maiesty would draw the whole Church to be of his opinion What the successe hath been we see you haue shewed I could wish the Controuersy might not haue further progresse be now buried in silence that posterity may not say that Rome grew by his Maiesties opposition against it that this point of her authority was made renowned by victory ouer him what the Papists before did doubtfully defend the bloud of their Martyrs suffering vnder King Iames made certaine knowne illustrious And peace concluded about the silencing of this controuersy might be the beginning of an vniuersall agreement with that Sea seeing other doctrinall controuersies by discussion be brought to that yssue that as I haue heard some learned intelligent persons auerre a calme consultation void of priuate interest and animosity might soone end them Aristobulus This peace were much to be wished nor is it safe to mantaine strife with that Sea but vpon vnauoidable occasions And this is the fifth and last thinge which I wish you would seriously ponder and not wonder that this counsell should be suggested by mee that am no Pa●●st The knowne bad successe that Kings and Princes haue still had in their opposicions against the Romane Church may mooue sufficiently all faithfull Counsailors though not of the Popes Religion neuer if they may choose to engage their So●craignes in such quarrelles Arioch the Ammonite Prince could tell Holosernes out of experience that his power and force would not be able to subdue the Iewes that in the end he would be repelled with disgrace yet he was not a Iew in Religiō The like aduise Amon● Counsailors that were heathens gaue● him to desist in his quarrell against Mardochaus the Iew Thou canst not say they resist him he being of the stock of the Iewes but shalt fall be●ore him It was noted that when Octau●a● and Antony were youthes still in their games Octauian had the best wherupon a prudēt frend gaue Antony warning in ciuill controuersies neuer to encounter him Thou art said he more noble then he more eloquen● and better qualified yet I see cleerly his Genins is stronger thē thine if thou try the for●une of warre with him he will doubtles be Conquerour What the cause may be why it shold be so who knows but experiēce now a thousand and six hundred years old● shewes that this is the● fate and felicity of that Sea to conquer with their patience and bring vnd●● subiection into nothing all the opponents against their doctrine or their authority The Roman Emperors for 300● yeares together bloudily oppugned Christian R●lig●on but principally the Roman Sea in so much as thirty Bishops therof were martyred and the persecuting Emperors as S. Cy●rian saith were more greeued that a new high Priest was placed in that Sea then that a new Prince was chosen set vp against them What was the successe For those three Centuries of yeares scarce any Emperour that persecuted them can be named that deriued the Empire to a third heire or dyed not an vnfortunate death and in the end Constantine their Successor submitted the Empire to the obedience of the Roman Bishop wherin the Empe●ors that followed him contynued Afterward so●e Christian Emperors begā to quarrell with the Church about the priuiledge● and immunities of the Clergy specially Valentinian the third and the succeeding Emperors of the West Did they preuaile In their daies the westerne Empire began to decay The Franks tooke to thē France the Saxons Britanny and VVandalls Asrick the Visigothes Spaine the Gothes Italy ● which ●oone after were made Chri●●●ans and submitted their Kingdomes to the Pope and their Kings professed to receaue their Crownes authority from him Who knoweth not how pittifully the Easterne Emperors and the Patriarches of Constantinople vexed th● Pope for many ages which their quarrell they neuer would giue ouer till finally they fell into the miserable bondage sl●uery of the Tu●ke wherin at this present without hope of remedy they grone What successe to omit many other experiences had the German Caesars that stroue with the Pope for the inuestiture of Bishops by staffe ringe Henry the 4. excommunicated and deposed by Gregory the 7. vpon that cause prospered for a while which this treatiser sets downe to encourage Princes to follow his example but he concealeth how in the end in punishment of his rebellion against his spirituall Father as Papists thinke he was deposed by his owne Sonne put in prison whence escaping he gathered forces was defeated brought to such want as he sued to be Sexton in a Churc●● and serue Priests Masse who had most cruelly vexed the high Priest of Christians many yeares together Not admitted to that office he turned himself to begge of laymen in lamentable manner crying Haue mercy on me at least you my friendes for the hand of the Lord hath touched mee and so full of misery repentance and anguish of mind he pined away to death The newes whereof was receaued with generall ioy of all Christians And his Sonne though for a while he trode the steps of his Fathers disobedience yet finally he yielded vp his right in possession whereof the Roman Bishop is at thi● day Wherein not only the successe which Popes had against so potent Aduersaries as was Henry the 4. who fought more battaile● then euer did Iulius Caesar but their courage and confidence also was admirable Neither ought any discreete Protestant trust Theodidacts relatiō of Hidelbrāds fainting in the quarrell taken out of Sigebert a partiall Monke seeing Papists bring 50. Historians that contradict him These whose fidelity can with no rea 〈…〉 called in question relate that he ended his life full of cōstancy