Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A Word B Word C Word D Occurrence Frequency Band MI MI Band Prominent
cause_n bishop_n hear_v rome_n 1,466 5 7.0789 4 false
View all documents for the selected quad

Text snippets containing the quad

ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A00597 The grand sacrilege of the Church of Rome, in taking away the sacred cup from the laiety at the Lords Table: detected, and conuinced by the euidence of holy Scripture, and testimonies of all ages successiuely from the first propagation of the catholike Christian faith to this present: together with two conferences; the former at Paris with D. Smith, now stiled by the Romanists B of Calcedon; the later at London with M Euerard, priest: by Dan. Featly, Doctor in Diuinity. Featley, Daniel, 1582-1645. 1630 (1630) STC 10733; ESTC S120664 185,925 360

There are 4 snippets containing the selected quad. | View original text

faithful_a wife_n be_v like_a to_o be_v debar_v of_o the_o comfort_n of_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n and_o drink_v of_o the_o lord_n cup._n tert._n then_o be_v clear_a for_o the_o laiety_n communicate_v in_o both_o kind_n and_o so_o be_v origen_n anno._n 230._o origen_n in_o 16._o etc._n hom._n on_o numb_a make_v this_o question_n what_o people_n be_v it_o that_o be_v accustom_v to_o drink_v blood_n and_o he_o answer_v the_o faithful_a people_n the_o christian_a people_n hear_v these_o thing_n and_o embrace_v he_o who_o say_v unless_o you_o eat_v the_o flesh_n of_o the_o son_n of_o man_n and_o drink_v his_o blood_n you_o have_v no_o life_n in_o you_o for_o my_o flesh_n be_v meat_n indeed_o and_o my_o blood_n be_v drink_v indeed_o mark_v the_o ingemination_n the_o people_n the_o faithful_a people_n hear_v these_o thing_n etc._n etc._n therefore_o in_o origens_n time_n it_o be_v the_o people_n use_n and_o custom_n to_o drink_v the_o blood_n of_o christ._n papist_n answer_v faciant_fw-la bellarmine_n loc_n sup_v cita_fw-la say_v to_o this_o testimony_n of_o origen_n that_o the_o people_n do_v drink_v but_o they_o have_v no_o command_n so_o to_o do_v it_o be_v their_o use_n it_o be_v not_o christ_n precept_n second_o he_o say_v the_o people_n may_v have_v such_o a_o use_n or_o custom_n to_o drink_v at_o the_o lord_n supper_n though_o every_o one_o drink_v not_o but_o some_o only_a the_o refutation_n i_o need_v not_o refel_v this_o answer_n because_o bellarmine_n grant_v all_o that_o for_o which_o i_o produce_v this_o testimony_n that_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n in_o origens_n time_n go_v for_o we_o and_o his_o mince_v the_o matter_n that_o some_o of_o the_o people_n may_v drink_v not_o all_o and_o that_o they_o drink_v it_o by_o custom_n not_o by_o law_n no_o way_n healp_v his_o bad_a cause_n for_o first_o origen_n in_o this_o very_a place_n allege_v christ_n precept_n for_o this_o practice_n of_o the_o faithful_a people_n john_n 6._o unless_o you_o drink_v my_o blood_n you_o have_v no_o life_n in_o you_o second_o in_o the_o end_n of_o this_o homily_n he_o turn_v his_o speech_n not_o to_o some_o of_o this_o people_n but_o to_o his_o audience_n and_o thus_o conclude_v ●…rire_fw-la thou_o therefore_o be_v the_o true_a people_n of_o israel_n who_o know_v to_o drink_v the_o blood_n and_o have_v learn_v to_o eat_v the_o flesh_n of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o to_o take_v a_o draught_n of_o the_o blood_n of_o that_o grape_n which_o be_v of_o the_o true_a vine_n &_o those_o branch_n of_o which_o the_o father_n purge_v the_o evidence_n of_o this_o truth_n be_v like_o the_o light_n of_o the_o morning_n it_o grow_v clear_a and_o clear_a for_o origen_n be_v clear_a in_o this_o point_n than_o tertullian_n and_o cyprian_a be_v yet_o clear_a than_o origen_n anno._n 250._o cyprian_n that_o learned_a bishop_n of_o carthage_n and_o bless_a martyr_n of_o christ_n jesus_n not_o only_o deliver_v but_o propugn_v our_o assertion_n by_o a_o forcible_a argument_n admittimus_fw-la epist_n 54._o how_o do_v we_o invite_v they_o god_n people_n to_o shed_v their_o blood_n for_o christ_n in_o the_o confession_n of_o his_o name_n if_o when_o they_o set_v forth_o to_o fight_v for_o he_o we_o deny_v they_o his_o blood_n how_o shall_v we_o fit_v they_o for_o the_o cup_n of_o martyrdom_n if_o before_o we_o admit_v they_o not_o by_o right_a of_o communion_n to_o drink_v of_o the_o lord_n cup_n in_o his_o church_n in_o his_o 63._o epistle_n etc._n because_o some_o man_n out_o of_o ignorance_n or_o simplicity_n in_o sanctify_v the_o cup_n of_o the_o lord_n and_o minister_a it_o to_o the_o people_n do_v not_o that_o which_o jesus_n christ_n our_o lord_n and_o god_n the_o author_n and_o institutor_n of_o this_o sacrifice_n do_v and_o teach_v i_o think_v it_o both_o a_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o necessity_n to_o acquaint_v you_o herewith_o by_o letter_n that_o if_o any_o yet_o be_v hold_v in_o that_o error_n the_o light_n of_o truth_n be_v now_o discover_v unto_o he_o he_o may_v return_v unto_o the_o root_n and_o beginning_n of_o our_o lord_n institution_n papist_n answer_v bellarmine_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o saint_n cyprian_n make_v good_a the_o poet_n observation_n qui_fw-la semel_fw-la verecundiae_fw-la limit_n transiverit_fw-la hunc_fw-la graviter_fw-la impudentem_fw-la esse_fw-la oportet_fw-la he_o that_o have_v once_o pass_v the_o bound_n of_o modesty_n he_o must_v be_v stout_o impudent_a and_o arm_v his_o forehead_n with_o brass_n for_o here_o he_o be_v not_o content_a to_o slight_v this_o allegation_n as_o he_o do_v the_o former_a but_o be_v bold_a to_o challenge_v it_o for_o a_o evidence_n on_o his_o own_o side_n this_o place_n say_v he_o rather_o make_v for_o our_o opinion_n then_o against_o it_o for_o docuisse_fw-la saint_n cyprian_n speak_v of_o certain_a christian_n that_o fall_v in_o time_n of_o persecution_n from_o the_o profession_n of_o the_o true_a faith_n and_o be_v therefore_o excommunicate_v by_o the_o bishop_n who_o saint_n cyprian_n exhort_v in_o regard_n of_o the_o eminent_a persecution_n to_o restore_v these_o weak_a christian_n to_o their_o former_a right_n and_o interest_n which_o they_o have_v in_o the_o lord_n body_n the_o right_a therefore_o of_o the_o laiety_n to_o communicate_v be_v give_v by_o the_o priest_n and_o take_v away_o by_o they_o now_o if_o the_o priest_n or_o prelate_n may_v for_o certain_a crime_n take_v the_o right_n of_o communicate_v from_o the_o laiety_n they_o may_v also_o dispose_v of_o the_o manner_n of_o communicate_v under_o one_o kind_n to_o the_o second_o testimony_n he_o answer_v that_o cyprian_a in_o that_o place_n handle_v not_o the_o point_n whether_o the_o cup_n ought_v to_o be_v deliver_v to_o the_o people_n or_o no_o but_o if_o it_o be_v deliver_v unto_o they_o he_o will_v have_v it_o deliver_v not_o in_o water_n only_o but_o wine_n mingle_v with_o water_n and_o this_o he_o say_v christ_n teach_v us._n the_o refutation_n neither_o of_o these_o answer_n will_v bear_v scale_n both_o of_o they_o be_v to_o light_v by_o many_o grain_n the_o first_o of_o these_o be_v liable_a to_o these_o exception_n first_o it_o be_v impertinent_a for_o we_o bring_v the_o testimony_n to_o prove_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n concern_v the_o laiety_n participate_v the_o cup_n but_o bellarmine_n crafty_o wave_v that_o point_n and_o question_v by_o what_o right_a the_o people_n do_v communicate_v admit_v that_o which_o be_v most_o false_a that_o the_o bishop_n or_o priest_n give_v the_o people_n all_o the_o right_n they_o have_v to_o the_o cup_n yet_o they_o have_v it_o and_o use_v it_o their_o practice_n therefore_o make_v for_o us._n second_o it_o be_v inconsequent_a for_o first_o when_z a'man_z be_v excommunicate_v and_o have_v lose_v his_o right_n to_o the_o lord_n table_n a_o bishop_n upon_o the_o party_n submission_n and_o sorrow_n for_o his_o sin_n and_o humble_a entreaty_n may_v restore_v he_o to_o his_o right_n again_o and_o set_v he_o where_o he_o be_v yet_o this_o prove_v not_o that_o the_o laiety_n have_v their_o original_a right_n of_o communicate_v from_o they_o as_o a_o bishop_n may_v upon_o just_a cause_n suspend_v a_o lay_v man_n or_o clergy_n from_o the_o communion_n so_o he_o may_v also_o exclude_v he_o from_o hear_v of_o the_o word_n and_o public_a prayer_n yet_o no_o man_n will_v hence_o conclude_v that_o the_o laiety_n or_o priest_n have_v no_o right_n at_o all_o to_o come_v into_o the_o church_n and_o to_o pray_v and_o to_o hear_v god_n word_n but_o from_o the_o bishop_n albeit_o cyprian_n in_o his_o own_o church_n and_o any_o other_o bishop_n in_o his_o diocese_n may_v admit_v or_o reject_v some_o particular_a person_n upon_o just_a cause_n from_o the_o communion_n yet_o it_o will_v not_o from_o hence_o follow_v that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n may_v take_v away_o either_o the_o cup_n or_o the_o bread_n from_o god_n people_n in_o all_o church_n three_o it_o be_v no_o good_a inference_n that_o because_o the_o bishop_n may_v deprive_v a_o man_n of_o the_o whole_a sacrament_n upon_o some_o cause_n viz._n for_o a_o great_a crime_n or_o high_a misdemeanour_n that_o therefore_o he_o may_v deprive_v he_o of_o a_o part_n of_o it_o without_o any_o fault_n at_o all_o as_o the_o romanist_n do_v the_o laiety_n in_o general_n four_o a_o bishop_n may_v dispense_v with_o his_o own_o censure_n or_o revoke_v they_o but_o he_o can_v dispense_v with_o god_n law_n to_o suspend_v a_o man_n from_o the_o whole_a communion_n if_o the_o delinquent_n deserve_v it_o be_v agreeable_a to_o christ_n and_o the_o apostle_n discipline_n but_o to_o admit_v he_o to_o one_o part_n of_o the_o sacrament_n and_o not_o to_o the_o other_o be_v a_o manifest_a violation_n of_o christ_n ordinance_n who_o institute_v this_o sacrament_n in_o two_o kind_n and_o
cause_n to_o complain_v of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n for_o the_o violation_n of_o christ_n institution_n and_o hinder_v they_o from_o discharge_v their_o whole_a duty_n in_o communicate_v in_o both_o kind_n according_a to_o his_o commandment_n three_o unworthy_a receiver_n receive_v no_o benefit_n at_o all_o by_o the_o communion_n but_o eat_v and_o drink_v their_o own_o damnation_n est_fw-la and_o saint_n ambrose_n pronounce_v he_o to_o be_v a_o unworthy_a receiver_n who_o celebrate_v these_o mystery_n otherways_o than_o the_o lord_n have_v appoint_v therefore_o they_o among_o the_o papist_n who_o consent_n to_o this_o violation_n of_o christ_n institution_n and_o mutilation_n of_o the_o sacrament_n may_v expect_v no_o benefit_n at_o all_o by_o this_o their_o sacrilegious_a practice_n much_o less_o may_v they_o look_v to_o share_v equal_o with_o they_o who_o communicate_v entire_o according_a to_o christ_n commandment_n four_o scent_n although_o each_o element_n represent_v christ_n unto_o we_o yet_o not_o so_o full_o or_o express_o as_o both_o together_o therefore_o this_o argument_n as_o all_o the_o former_a may_v be_v retort_v upon_o the_o adversary_n the_o efficacy_n of_o sacrament_n be_v answerable_a to_o their_o significancie_n for_o they_o effect_v that_o which_o they_o signify_v etc._n etc._n but_o the_o significancie_n of_o one_o element_n be_v not_o equal_a to_o the_o significancie_n of_o both_o therefore_o the_o efficacy_n of_o one_o element_n be_v not_o equal_a to_o the_o efficacy_n of_o both_o which_o conclusion_n be_v assent_v unto_o both_o by_o halensis_n and_o vasquez_n gasper_n consaluus_fw-la and_o clemens_n the_o six_o sect_n v._o the_o four_o argument_n our_o adversary_n thus_o frame_v the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n ●…ught_v to_o be_v administer_v that_o all_o faithful_a people_n may_v communicate_v all_z can_v receive_v in_o both_o kind_n exempli_fw-la gratia_fw-la abstemij_fw-la who_o stomach_n can_v brook_v wine_n and_o nazarite_n who_o make_v a_o vow_n against_o drink_v of_o wine_n but_o all_o faithful_a people_n can_v communicate_v in_o both_o kind_n therefore_o it_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v administer_v in_o both_o kind_n the_o answer_n first_o this_o argument_n touch_v not_o the_o point_n in_o question_n for_o we_o find_v no_o fault_n with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n for_o her_o indulgence_n in_o this_o kind_n but_o for_o her_o sacrilege_n not_o for_o her_o dispense_n with_o they_o that_o can_v receive_v in_o both_o kind_n but_o for_o prohibit_v they_o that_o can_v and_o desire_v it_o second_o law_n as_o consult_v pomponius_n observe_v provide_v for_o those_o thing_n that_o happen_v common_o or_o for_o the_o most_o part_n and_o not_o for_o such_o thing_n as_o happen_v to_o few_o or_o seldom_o a_o man_n can_v scarce_o find_v one_o in_o a_o kingdom_n that_o have_v such_o a_o antipathy_n to_o wine_n that_o he_o can_v endure_v so_o small_a a_o quantity_n of_o some_o kind_n of_o wine_n as_o may_v suffice_v for_o the_o communion_n and_o i_o believe_v our_o adversary_n can_v hardly_o name_v now_o a_o christian_a nazarite_n 〈◊〉_d the_o world_n and_o be_v it_o any_o way_n reasonable_a out_o of_o respect_n to_o so_o few_o to_o make_v a_o general_a law_n for_o the_o restraint_n of_o the_o cup_n from_o the_o laiety_n be_v there_o any_o reason_n that_o the_o disabilitie_n of_o so_o few_o shall_v prejudice_n the_o right_a of_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o god_n people_n some_o priest_n have_v at_o some_o time_n so_o weak_a stomach_n that_o they_o can_v taste_v wine_n and_o some_o both_o of_o the_o laiety_n and_o clergy_n through_o infirmity_n of_o stomach_n or_o drought_n in_o the_o throat_n in_o hot_a disease_n can_v swallow_v down_o the_o bread_n will_v they_o therefore_o make_v a_o general_a law_n to_o take_v away_o the_o cup_n from_o the_o priest_n or_o the_o bread_n from_o both_o three_o for_o nazarite_n if_o there_o be_v any_o in_o the_o church_n they_o be_v to_o be_v teach_v that_o there_o evangelicall_a liberty_n release_v they_o of_o the_o strict_a rigour_n of_o their_o legal_a vow_n and_o that_o our_o saviour_n command_n drink_v you_o all_o of_o this_o be_v a_o sufficient_a warrant_n for_o they_o to_o drink_v of_o the_o sacramental_a wine_n at_o the_o lord_n table_n though_o they_o drink_v no_o wine_n else_o where_o saint_n james_n the_o brother_n of_o our_o lord_n though_o as_o saint_n illust_n hierome_n write_v of_o he_o he_o keep_v strict_o the_o nazarite_n vow_v in_o abstain_v from_o wine_n and_o strong_a drink_n at_o other_o time_n yet_o he_o be_v among_o the_o twelve_o at_o christ_n last_o supper_n and_o saint_n mark_v testify_v that_o all_o drink_v of_o the_o cup_n and_o for_o such_o who_o stomach_n can_v away_o with_o the_o small_a quantity_n of_o wine_n it_o may_v be_v sufficient_a for_o they_o to_o take_v the_o cup_n into_o their_o hand_n and_o show_v their_o desire_n or_o they_o may_v have_v a_o cup_n by_o themselves_o of_o wine_n so_o allay_v with_o water_n as_o their_o stomach_n may_v brook_v as_o the_o father_n in_o the_o counsel_n of_o tower_n order_v to_o give_v to_o sick_a folk_n bread_n sopt_v in_o wine_n because_o they_o be_v not_o able_a to_o take_v down_o dry_a bread_n last_o this_o argument_n be_v both_o answer_v and_o retort_v in_o the_o conference_n sect_n vi_o the_o first_o and_o last_o argument_n which_o our_o adversary_n draw_v from_o reason_n may_v be_v thus_o form_v the_o sacrament_n ought_v to_o be_v so_o administer_v that_o all_o inconvenience_n in_o the_o celebration_n thereof_o may_v be_v prevent_v but_o many_o inconvenience_n can_v be_v prevent_v unless_o the_o cup_n be_v withhold_v from_o the_o laiety_n therefore_o in_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n the_o cup_n ought_v to_o be_v withhold_v from_o the_o laiety_n the_o inconvenience_n which_o they_o pretend_v to_o arise_v from_o the_o public_a use_n of_o the_o chalice_n be_v sum_v up_o by_o m._n harding_n art_n 2._o divis_fw-la 8._o viz._n irreverence_n of_o so_o high_a a_o sacrament_n whereof_o christian_a people_n in_o the_o beginning_n have_v a_o marvelous_a care_n and_o regard_n the_o loathsomenesse_n of_o many_o that_o can_v brook_v the_o taste_n of_o wine_n the_o difficulty_n of_o get_v wine_n in_o country_n near_o situate_v to_o the_o north_n pole_n and_o impossibility_n of_o keep_v it_o long_o the_o answer_n first_o inconvenience_n in_o a_o matter_n of_o indifference_n may_v be_v ponder_v and_o put_v in_o the_o other_o 1._o scale_n against_o the_o commodity_n in_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n and_o if_o the_o inconvenience_n be_v such_o as_o can_v be_v prevent_v and_o they_o be_v great_a and_o more_o in_o number_n than_o the_o profit_n or_o advantage_n that_o be_v like_a to_o grow_v upon_o the_o use_n of_o it_o in_o this_o case_n wisdom_n advise_v to_o take_v away_o a_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o necessary_a i_o say_v if_o the_o unavoidable_a inconvenience_n exceed_v the_o certain_a profit_n thereby_o but_o in_o religious_a duty_n which_o can_v be_v omit_v without_o violation_n of_o god_n law_n and_o christ_n ordinance_n inconvenience_n must_v not_o turn_v the_o balance_n only_o we_o must_v take_v all_o the_o care_n that_o may_v be_v to_o prevent_v such_o inconvenience_n which_o though_o they_o be_v never_o so_o many_o yet_o be_v they_o rather_o to_o beindure_v than_o god_n absolute_a command_n disobey_v or_o christ_n institution_n corrupt_v second_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n and_o the_o christian_a church_n throughout_o all_o the_o world_n 2_o for_o twelve_o hundred_o year_n foresee_v the_o inconvenience_n which_o our_o adversary_n now_o pretend_v yet_o they_o think_v it_o not_o fit_a in_o regard_n of_o they_o to_o violate_v christ_n institution_n by_o restrain_v the_o cup_n to_o the_o clergy_n only_o for_o they_o as_o we_o have_v prove_v by_o abundant_a testimony_n general_o and_o ordinary_o give_v the_o cup_n to_o the_o laiety_n as_o well_o as_o the_o bread_n three_o if_o they_o will_v from_o these_o want_n and_o impediment_n infer_v that_o some_o favourable_a 3_o course_n shall_v be_v take_v and_o dispensation_n grant_v to_o such_o as_o can_v taste_v wine_n or_o live_v in_o such_o country_n where_o wine_n can_v be_v get_v we_o will_v not_o much_o strive_v with_o they_o we_o censure_v not_o the_o priest_n in_o russia_n who_o for_o want_v of_o wine_n use_v to_o consecrate_v in_o metheglin_n nor_o call_v innocentius_n the_o eigth_n into_o question_n howsoever_o now_o many_o papist_n condemn_v he_o for_o it_o for_o dispense_n with_o the_o priest_n in_o norway_n to_o consecrate_v without_o wine_n that_o which_o in_o this_o question_n we_o charge_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n with_o be_v a_o manifest_a transgression_n of_o christ_n ordinance_n and_o a_o general_a prohibition_n of_o give_v the_o cup_n to_o the_o laiety_n where_o wine_n may_v be_v have_v and_o the_o communicant_n be_v able_a and_o willing_a to_o drink_v if_o the_o priest_n
bishop_n over_o the_o priest_n all_o which_o yet_o we_o do_v acknowledge_v in_o a_o peaceable_a and_o flourish_a estate_n of_o the_o church_n aught_o to_o be_v have_v and_o we_o have_v cause_n to_o praise_n god_n for_o our_o happiness_n in_o england_n above_o other_o church_n in_o this_o behalf_n m._n euerard_n here_o m._n euerard_n step_v in_o not_o be_v call_v say_v i_o pray_v you_o sir_n if_o there_o may_v be_v a_o church_n without_o a_o bishop_n who_o shall_v ordain_v the_o priest_n in_o that_o church_n d._n feat_o sir_n what_o be_v you_o who_o intrude_v yourself_o into_o our_o private_a conference_n it_o seem_v you_o be_v a_o romish_a priest_n be_v you_o not_o so_o m._n euerard_n i_o be_o no_o priest_n d._n feat_o what_o will_v you_o deny_v your_o priesthood_n m._n euerard_n i_o be_o no_o priest_n to_o tell_v you_o d._n feat_o now_o i_o perceive_v you_o be_v not_o only_o a_o priest_n but_o a_o jesuited_a priest_n also_o for_o you_o can_v equivocate_v m._n euerard_n it_o be_v no_o equivocation_n to_o say_v i_o be_o no_o priest_n to_o tell_v you_o d._n feat_o indeed_o now_o that_o you_o express_v your_o mental_a reservation_n you_o use_v no_o equivocation_n but_o while_o you_o conceal_v it_o you_o do_v equivocate_v and_o i_o marvel_v you_o blush_v not_o to_o use_v such_o a_o simple_a shift_n or_o evasion_n as_o to_o say_v you_o be_v no_o priest_n to_o tell_v i_o as_o if_o you_o or_o any_o man_n be_v make_v a_o priest_n to_o tell_v another_o man_n you_o be_v a_o priest_n at_o these_o word_n the_o meat_n be_v bring_v in_o and_o thereby_o a_o stop_v make_v of_o a_o far_a reply_n for_o the_o present_a but_o not_o long_o after_o the_o guest_n be_v all_o place_v the_o l._n revive_v the_o former_a question_n demand_v of_o doctor_n feat_o l._n f._n who_o shall_v ordain_v priest_n in_o a_o church_n where_o there_o be_v no_o bishop_n d._n feat_o if_o there_o be_v no_o bishop_n in_o any_o adjoin_v church_n by_o who_o they_o may_v be_v ordain_v and_o present_v to_o the_o church_n i_o say_v in_o that_o case_n the_o church_n to_o who_o christ_n as_o st._n petro._n august_n say_v give_v the_o key_n may_v commit_v episcopal_a authority_n to_o certain_a priest_n and_o they_o thus_o authorize_v may_v ordain_v other_o priest_n as_o well_o as_o absolve_v and_o confirm_v the_o baptize_v and_o perform_v other_o ordain_v act_n ordinary_o reserve_v to_o bishop_n d_o and_o this_o ordination_n in_o a_o trouble_a state_n of_o the_o church_n and_o in_o case_n of_o necessity_n i_o hold_v to_o be_v lawful_a and_o warrantable_a both_o because_o it_o have_v that_o which_o the_o apostle_n require_v 1._o tim._n 4._o 14._o to_o wit_n the_o lay_v on_o of_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o presbytery_n and_o because_o there_o have_v be_v precedent_n of_o such_o ordination_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n and_o questionless_a the_o church_n that_o commit_v the_o power_n to_o one_o priest_n set_v in_o a_o eminent_a degree_n over_o the_o rest_n may_v commit_v the_o same_o power_n to_o more_o presbyter_n or_o priest_n especial_o consider_v it_o be_v the_o judgement_n of_o learned_a divine_n both_o protestant_n and_o papist_n that_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n differ_v rather_o in_o execution_n of_o some_o act_n of_o their_o order_n appropriate_v to_o bishop_n only_o then_o in_o their_o essential_a order_n a_o bishop_n have_v a_o eminency_n of_o degree_n in_o the_o same_o order_n but_o his_o ecclesiastical_a order_n be_v essential_o the_o same_o with_o the_o presbyter_n or_o priest_n but_o what_o do_v this_o question_n concern_v any_o here_o present_a neither_o we_o nor_o for_o aught_o i_o know_v the_o papist_n themselves_o define_v it_o to_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o faith_n necessary_a to_o saluato_fw-la resolve_v this_o way_n or_o that_o way_n therefore_o this_o question_n may_v have_v be_v forbear_v necessitatis_fw-la m._n euerard_n the_o council_n of_o trent_n have_v define_v it_o therefore_o to_o we_o it_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o faith_n d._n feat_o i_o scarce_o believe_v the_o council_n of_o trent_n be_v it_o of_o what_o credit_v it_o may_v be_v have_v define_v this_o point_n in_o such_o sort_n as_o you_o intimate_v m._n euarard_n i_o will_v show_v it_o d._n feat_o when_o you_o show_v it_o i_o will_v answer_v it_o after_o this_o passage_n some_o speech_n have_v be_v cast_v in_o by_o some_o of_o the_o table_n concern_v difference_n in_o point_n of_o religion_n among_o the_o protestant_n of_o england_n d._n feat_o say_v it_o be_v to_o be_v consider_v that_o the_o difference_n among_o the_o true_a member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v only_o in_o point_n of_o discipline_n and_o ceremony_n not_o in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n or_o matter_n of_o faith_n but_o the_o romanist_n differ_v one_o from_o another_o in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n and_o matter_n of_o faith_n for_o the_o present_a say_v he_o i_o will_v instance_n in_o two_o remarkable_a particular_n first_o touch_v the_o conception_n of_o the_o bless_a virgin_n second_o touch_v the_o pope_n supreme_a authority_n even_o over_o general_n counsel_n in_o the_o first_o point_n the_o jacobins_n or_o dominicant_n maintain_v that_o the_o bless_a virgin_n be_v conceive_v in_o original_a sin_n the_o jesuit_n franciscan_n and_o sorbonist_n hold_v the_o contrary_n m._n euarard_n yet_o both_o keep_v the_o feast_n of_o the_o immaculate_a conception_n d._n feat_o they_o may_v both_o keep_v a_o feast_n upon_o the_o same_o day_n and_o that_o for_o the_o conception_n of_o our_o lady_n but_o certain_o they_o who_o believe_v she_o be_v conceive_v in_o sin_n can_v without_o hypocrisy_n keep_v a_o feast_n of_o the_o immaculate_a conception_n touch_v the_o second_o point_n the_o sorbonist_n have_v ever_o hold_v and_o do_v hold_v to_o this_o day_n that_o a_o general_n council_n be_v above_o the_o pope_n but_o the_o jacobins_n jesuit_n &_o all_o order_n of_o friar_n general_o beside_o many_o secular_a priest_n hold_v the_o contrary_a that_o the_o pope_n be_v above_o a_o general_n council_n when_o i_o live_v in_o paris_n in_o the_o ambassador_n house_n i_o hear_v of_o a_o general_a chapter_n as_o they_o call_v it_o hold_v by_o the_o jacobins_n in_o tho._n aquinas_n school_n where_o for_o many_o day_n together_o diverse_a divinity_n question_n be_v handle_v and_o among_o other_o this_o question_n touch_v the_o pope_n superiority_n to_o counsel_n a_o acute_a serbone_n doctor_n there_o present_a thus_o impugn_a the_o jacobins_n assertion_n whatsoever_o be_v define_v in_o a_o general_n council_n confirm_v by_o the_o pope_n be_v infallible_o true_a &_o de_fw-fr fide_fw-la but_o it_o be_v define_v in_o a_o general_a council_n to_o wit_n the_o council_n of_o constance_n confirm_v by_o pope_n martin_n the_o five_o that_o a_o general_n council_n be_v above_o the_o pope_n therefore_o it_o be_v infallible_o true_a and_o de_fw-fr fide_fw-la that_o a_o general_n council_n be_v above_o the_o pope_n the_o auditor_n the_o great_a part_n of_o they_o very_o much_o applaud_v this_o argument_n of_o the_o sorbonist_n and_o express_v their_o applause_n by_o a_o kind_n of_o shout_n but_o the_o jacobin_n respondent_fw-la in_o a_o kind_n of_o scorn_n answer_v it_o by_o retortion_n thus_o whatsoever_o be_v define_v in_o a_o general_a council_n confirm_v by_o the_o pope_n be_v infallible_o true_a and_o de_fw-fr fide_fw-la but_o it_o be_v define_v in_o a_o general_n council_n to_o wit_n the_o council_n of_o lateran_n confirm_v by_o leo_n the_o ten_o that_o the_o pope_n be_v above_o a_o general_n council_n therefore_o it_o be_v infallible_o true_a and_o de_fw-fr fide_fw-la that_o the_o pope_n be_v above_o a_o general_n council_n at_o this_o syllogism_n the_o jacobin_n have_v near_o as_o great_a a_o applause_n as_o the_o sorbonist_n we_o that_o be_v present_a of_o the_o reform_a church_n unknown_a to_o the_o romanist_n receive_v very_o much_o satisfaction_n to_o hear_v papist_n among_o themselves_o thus_o bandy_v council_n and_o pope_n against_o council_n and_o pope_n for_o from_o both_o we_o conclude_v that_o since_o contradictory_n can_v be_v both_o true_a and_o it_o appear_v in_o matter_n of_o faith_n that_o general_n counsel_n confirm_v by_o pope_n have_v decree_v direct_a contradictory_n that_o therefore_o general_n counsel_n confirm_v by_o pope_n may_v err_v and_o consequent_o that_o the_o strong_a pillar_n of_o a_o romanist_n faith_n be_v weak_a and_o totter_v m._n euerard_n the_o council_n of_o constance_n which_o decree_v a_o general_n council_n to_o be_v above_o the_o pope_n be_v confirm_v by_o martin_n the_o five_o conference_n only_o in_o such_o point_n as_o be_v in_o that_o council_n determine_v against_o hus_n and_o the_o bohemian_n the_o pope_n confirm_v not_o all_o point_v define_v in_o that_o council_n m._n l._n have_v you_o any_o example_n of_o any_o such_o confirmation_n of_o a_o council_n wherein_o some_o point_n define_v by_o a_o
ground_v upon_o uncertain_a and_o false_a supposal_n for_o a_o church_n may_v have_v be_v visible_a yet_o not_o the_o name_n of_o all_o visible_a professor_n now_o be_v show_v and_o prove_v out_o of_o good_a author_n there_o may_v be_v million_o of_o professor_n yet_o no_o particular_a and_o authentical_a record_n of_o they_o by_o name_n record_n there_o may_v be_v many_o in_o ancient_a time_n yet_o not_o now_o extant_a at_o least_o for_o we_o to_o come_v by_o yet_o we_o will_v not_o refuse_v to_o deal_v with_o you_o in_o your_o own_o question_n if_o you_o in_o like_a manner_n will_v undertake_v the_o like_a task_n in_o your_o own_o defence_n and_o maintain_v the_o affirmative_a in_o the_o like_a question_n which_o we_o now_o propound_v here_o unto_o you_o in_o writing_n whether_o the_o romish_a church_n that_o be_v a_o church_n hold_v the_o particular_a entire_a doctrine_n of_o the_o now_o romanist_n as_o it_o be_v comprise_v in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n be_v in_o all_o age_n visible_a especial_o in_o the_o first_o 600._o year_n and_o whether_o the_o name_n of_o such_o visible_a or_o legible_a romanist_n in_o all_o age_n can_v be_v show_v and_o prove_v out_o of_o good_a author_n second_o whereas_o in_o a_o conference_n june_n 27._o 1623._o with_o you_o and_o m._n sweet_a i_o undertake_v to_o prove_v the_o perpetual_a visibility_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n both_o à_fw-la priore_fw-la by_o syllogism_n and_o à_fw-la posteriore_fw-la by_o induction_n and_o then_o also_o make_v a_o essay_n in_o both_o kind_n as_o the_o time_n permit_v demonstrate_v the_o visibility_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v a_o effect_n by_o the_o eternity_n of_o our_o faith_n as_o the_o cause_n and_o further_o to_o stop_v your_o clamour_n for_o name_n i_o produce_v at_o that_o time_n the_o name_n of_o visible_a professor_n of_o our_o belief_n for_o 200._o year_n three_o whereas_o since_o the_o conference_n i_o have_v make_v good_a my_o demonstration_n à_fw-la priore_fw-la of_o the_o perpetual_a visibility_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n against_o all_o your_o cavil_n refute_v at_o large_a through_o my_o whole_a book_n entitle_v the_o romish_a fisher_n catch_v and_o hold_v in_o his_o own_o net_n print_v at_o london_n 1624._o but_o particular_o &_o more_o especial_o in_o the_o remonstrance_n therein_o to_o sr._n humphrey_n line_v from_o page_n the_o 14._o usque_fw-la ad_fw-la finem_fw-la and_o in_o my_o reply_n to_o your_o answer_n paragraph_n 8._o pag._n 89._o usque_fw-la ad_fw-la 112_o four_o whereas_o now_o i_o have_v quite_o finish_v my_o demonstration_n à_fw-la posteriore_fw-la and_o have_v set_v down_o the_o so_o much_o harangued_a for_o catalogue_n of_o visible_a professor_n in_o all_o age_n from_o christ_n to_o luther_n of_o our_o protestant_a doctrine_n in_o a_o main_a point_n of_o difference_n and_o one_o of_o the_o first_o mention_v in_o the_o conference_n touch_v the_o communicate_v in_o both_o kind_n i_o now_o therefore_o challenge_v you_o m._n john_n fisher_n according_a to_o your_o deep_a engagement_n before_o in_o and_o since_o the_o conference_n as_o you_o tender_v the_o tickle_a state_n of_o your_o catholic_a cause_n with_o your_o collapse_a lady_n immediate_o after_o the_o perusal_n of_o this_o my_o treatise_n to_o go_v about_o and_o in_o convenient_a time_n without_o further_a delay_n and_o tergiversation_n to_o draw_v a_o like_a catalogue_n for_o your_o part_n of_o such_o writer_n and_o author_n of_o note_n in_o all_o age_n who_o have_v defend_v or_o at_o least_o approve_a your_o dry_a and_o half_a communion_n which_o after_o that_o you_o have_v perform_v i_o will_v proceed_v god_n assist_v i_o to_o name_v visible_a professor_n in_o all_o age_n in_o other_o point_n of_o great_a moment_n but_o if_o you_o refuse_v to_o meet_v i_o in_o this_o field_n pitch_v by_o yourself_o divert_v into_o your_o common_a place_n of_o rail_v at_o sectary_n and_o novelist_n or_o if_o like_o caligula_n you_o triumph_n at_o rome_n for_o a_o signal_n victory_n in_o germany_n when_o he_o have_v gather_v only_o a_o few_o pebble_n on_o the_o shore_n at_o caieta_n and_o you_o thereupon_o cry_v out_o upon_o the_o shift_n and_o tergiversation_n of_o d._n feat_o whereas_o to_o pay_v you_o backsome_a of_o your_o own_o in_o coin_n your_o 1625._o white_a liver_n will_v not_o suffer_v you_o to_o come_v so_o much_o as_o in_o sight_n of_o the_o wall_n and_o gate_n of_o my_o defence_n but_o only_o to_o shoot_v a_o few_o paper_n bullet_n against_o three_o or_o four_o of_o my_o redoubt_n you_o in_o all_o your_o replyer_n not_o reply_v one_o word_n to_o the_o defence_n of_o my_o proceed_n in_o the_o conference_n and_o refutation_n of_o your_o answer_n or_o if_o for_o want_v of_o better_a employment_n ne_o toga_fw-la condylis_fw-la &_o penula_fw-la desit_fw-la olivis_fw-la you_o shall_v tack_n together_o a_o cento_fw-la of_o relation_n 1626._o like_o sibylles_n leave_v as_o much_o distract_a as_o the_o brain_n of_o the_o penner_n and_o if_o you_o shall_v entreat_v in_o good_a earnest_n your_o midas_n reader_n to_o give_v credit_n to_o your_o own_o report_n in_o your_o own_o cause_n you_o be_v both_o a_o romanist_n and_o a_o jesuite_n against_o the_o subscription_n of_o sundry_a person_n of_o honour_n worth_n and_o quality_n affix_v to_o the_o conference_n or_o if_o have_v a_o leaden_a treatise_n that_o have_v long_o feat_o lyen_fw-we heavy_a upon_o your_o hand_n touch_v no_o salvation_n out_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n you_o shall_v clap_v my_o name_n and_o d._n whites_n upon_o it_o to_o make_v it_o sell_v intitul_a it_o a_o reply_n to_o d._n white_a and_o d._n feat_o whereas_o from_o the_o first_o page_n be_v 145._o to_o the_o last_o 181._o there_o be_v not_o one_o syllable_n against_o either_o of_o their_o write_n five_o and_o last_o if_o you_o shall_v change_v your_o trade_n and_o of_o a_o fisher_n turn_v sawyer_n nothing_o but_o draw_v the_o see_v of_o your_o ragged_a stile_n 1000_o time_n by_o the_o same_o line_n backward_o and_o forward_o and_o never_o pierce_v into_o the_o heart_n of_o any_o controversy_n impute_v it_o to_o no_o other_o thing_n then_o mere_a compassion_n in_o your_o opposite_n that_o they_o rejoine_v not_o to_o your_o reply_v ne_fw-la famam_fw-la tuam_fw-la sponte_fw-la concidentem_fw-la procaelio_n maturiùs_fw-la extinguant_fw-la svo_fw-la vulnere_fw-la lest_o they_o shall_v give_v a_o deaths-wound_n to_o your_o reputation_n that_o lie_v on_o bleed_v already_o in_o tauros_fw-la ruunt_fw-la libyci_n leones_fw-la ne_fw-la sint_fw-la papilionibus_fw-la molesti_fw-la finis_fw-la the_o sum_n and_o substance_n of_o a_o disputation_n between_o m._n dan_n feat_o oponent_n and_o d._n smith_z the_o young_a respondent_fw-la now_o by_o the_o pope_n intitutule_v bishop_n of_o chalcedon_n and_o ordinary_a of_o all_o england_n at_o paris_n sept._n 4._o 1612._o stylo_n novo_fw-la touch_v the_o real_a presence_n in_o the_o sacrament_n london_n print_v by_o felix_n kyngston_n for_o robert_n milbourne_n and_o be_v to_o be_v sell_v at_o his_o shop_n in_o paul_n churchyard_n at_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o greyhound_n 1630._o the_o sum_n and_o substance_n of_o a_o disputation_n between_o m._n dan._n feat_o opponent_n and_o d._n smith_n the_o young_a respondent_fw-la now_o by_o the_o pope_n entitle_v bish._n of_o chalcedon_n and_o ordinary_a of_o all_o england_n at_o paris_n sept._n 4._o 1612._o stylo_n novo_fw-la touch_v the_o real_a presence_n in_o the_o sacrament_n the_o law_n of_o the_o disputation_n 1._o that_o they_o shall_v dispute_v calm_o and_o peaceable_o 2._o that_o all_o impertinent_a discourse_n shall_v be_v avoid_v 3._o that_o m._n feat_o at_o this_o time_n shall_v only_o oppose_v and_o d._n smith_n only_a answer_n these_o condition_n agree_v upon_o it_o be_v think_v fit_a both_o shall_v set_v down_o the_o state_n of_o the_o question_n and_o the_o point_n of_o difference_n between_o they_o which_o d._n smith_n be_v respondent_fw-la first_o undertake_v distinguish_v between_o the_o question_n of_o real_a presence_n and_o of_o transubstantion_n and_o determine_v the_o point_n in_o question_n to_o be_v this_o whether_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v true_o and_o substantial_o in_o the_o sacrament_n under_o the_o form_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n which_o be_v do_v he_o enter_v into_o a_o large_a discourse_n to_o set_v down_o the_o proof_n and_o confirmation_n of_o the_o affirmative_a use_v by_o their_o church_n whereupon_o he_o be_v challenge_v by_o m._n feat_o of_o a_o breach_n of_o the_o three_o law_n and_o so_o after_o master_n feat_o have_v for_o his_o part_n promise_v he_o to_o answer_v all_o his_o argument_n at_o another_o time_n when_o the_o hearer_n shall_v think_v good_a d._n smith_n surcease_v and_o m._n feat_o explain_v the_o term_n of_o the_o question_n as_o follow_v there_o be_v two_o term_n say_v he_o in_o the_o question_n presence_n and_o real_a i_o distinguish_v of_o both_o first_o the_o scripture_n