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A74979 Excommunicatio excommunicata, or, A censure of the Presbyterian censures and proceedings in the Classis at Manchester wherein is modestly examined what ecclesiastical or civil function [sic] they pretend for their new and usurped power : in a discourse betwixt the ministers of that Classis, and some dissenting Christians. Allen, Isaac, 17th cent.; Allen, Isaac, 17th cent.; Heyrick, Richard, 1600-1667. 1658 (1658) Wing A1026A; ESTC R42720 45,307 67

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this time and to such Persons we think herein we owed the Provinciall Assembly unto whose Authority we profess our selves to be subject so much respect and duty as to submit our apprehensions in a Case of this nature which they had propounded unto us to be seriously weighed as they had done to the rest of the Classes within this Province unto their Judgement and to take their concurrent approvall along with us before we proceeded to practise in a matter of this weight And yet we have declared before That however we are not so wavering and unsettled in matters of faith as to resolve our belief into the determination of Synods or Councils believing no more nor no otherwise then as they determine Yet that it is not out of the compass of the authority of a Synod to examine try and authoritatively to censure Doctrines as well as matters of Discipline And we think how confident soever you may be of the soundness and orthodoxness of what in your Paper you propound in way of exception against any thing in ours you have not such clear and inquestionable grounds from Scripture for the same that you were to be accused of wavering or unsettledness if you had submitted the same to have been examined and tried by a Provincial Assembly and much less if you could have had the opportunity of submitting it to the Censure of a General Council But whereas mentioning our Provincial Assembly at Preston you call it a new termed Provincial Assembly If your meaning be that the terming it a Provincial Assembly in stead of a Provincial Synod is a new term then this is but onely a Logomachia and not much to be insisted on Although we frequently call it a Provincial Synod as well as a Provincial Assembly But if your meaning be That it is a new termed Provincial Assembly at Preston Because Provinciall Synods or Assemblies have been held but lately at Preston we see not if Provincial Assemblies be warrantable and have been of ancient use in the Church that having been long in dis-use they begin of late to be held at Preston that can justly incurre your censure But if the Antiquity of such Assemblies be that you question Then we referre you to what Dr Bernard in the Book of his above quoted shews was the Judgement of Dr Vsher who is acknowledged by all that knew him or are acquainted with his works to have been a great Antiquary however we alleadge him not that you should build your faith upon his Testimony and which we think may be sufficient to vindicate Provincial Assemblies in your thoughts from all suspition of novelty In that Book you have in the close of it proposals touching the Reduction of Episcopacy unto the form of Synodical Government received in the ancient Church And it thus begins By the Order of the Church of England all Presbyters are charged to administer the Doctrine and Sacraments and the Discipline of Christ as the Lord hath commanded and as this Realm hath received And that they might the better understand what the Lord hath commanded herein The exhortation of Paul to the Elders of Ephesus Acts 20.28 is appointed to be read unto them at the time of their Ordination A little after it is acknowledged That Ignatius by Presbytery mentioned by Paul 1 Tim. 4.14 did understand the Community of the rest of the Presbyters or Elders who then had a hand not onely in the delivery of the Doctrine and Sacraments but also in the administration of the Discipline of Christ And for further proof Tertullian is alleadged in his Generall Apologie for Christians Where he saith that in the Church are used exhortations chastisements and divine censure For Judgement is given with great advice as among those who are certain they are in the sight of God And it is the chiefest foreshewing of the Judgement to come if any man have so offended that he be banished from the Communion of Prayer and of the Assembly and of all holy Fellowship The Presidents that bear rule therein are certain approved Elders who have obtained this honour not by reward but by good report There also is further shewed That in matters of Ecclesiastical judicature Cornelius Bishop of Rome used the received form of gathering together the Presbytery And that Cyprian sufficiently declares of what Persons that consisted When he wisheth him to read his Letter to the flourishing Clergy which there did preside or rule with him And further That in the 4th Council of Carthage it was concluded That the Bishop might hear no mans cause without the presence of the Clergy And that otherwise the Bishops sentence should be void unless it were confirmed by the Clergy And yet further That this is found inserted into the Canons of Egbert who was Archbishop of York in the Saxon times and afterwards into the body of the Canon law it self It is here also acknowledged That in our Church this kind of Presbyterian Government hath been much disused Yet that it did profess that every Pastor hath a right to rule the Church from whence also the name of Rector was at first given unto him and administer the Discipline of Christ as well as to dispence the Doctrine and Sacraments c. By all which it is acknowledged and also proved That the form of Government by the united suffrages of the Clergy is ancient and which is there in express termes asserted as it might be demonstrated by many more Testimonies but that we conceive these already mentioned are sufficient and being alleadged by the aforementioned Author As also evidencing what his own Judgement was in this point may be more likely to sway with you if in that there should be a dissent betwixt you and us then any thing that we could our selves produce But in this reduction of Episcopacy to the form of Synodical Government received in the ancient Church there are proposals of Assemblies of Pastors within certain limited bounds Which saving that they are some of them somewhat larger then ours which is but a circumstantial difference do hold proportion with the Classical Provincial and National Assemblies mentioned in the form of our Church Government As also the times propounded there for their meeting the power of these Assemblies and what they were to have Cognizance of and the subordination of the lesser to the greater with liberty of Appeal if need should require and are the same in substance as with us And all these were propounded as the way of Government in the ancient Church and in the year 1641. after the troubles that had risen in Scotland about Episcopacy and the Ceremonies and before the setting up of the Presbyterian Government in this Land had so much as fallen under debate in the Parliament so far as ever we heard of as an expedient to prevent the troubles that did after arise in this Land about the matter of Church Government being for the moderating of Episcopacy That at that time was