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cause_n	bishop_n	council_n	rome_n	4,497	5	7.4489	4	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A05535	A true narration of all the passages of the proceedings in the generall Assembly of the Church of Scotland, holden at Perth the 25. of August, anno Dom. 1618 VVherein is set downe the copy of his Maiesties letters to the said Assembly: together with a iust defence of the Articles therein concluded, against a seditious pamphlet. By Dr. Lyndesay, Bishop of Brechen.	Lindsay, David, d. 1641?; Calderwood, David, 1575-1650. Perth assembly.	1621 (1621)	STC 15657; ESTC S108553	266,002	446

vnto things that were proponed and serued to the good and peace of the Church And to insist in the same example brought by your selfe reade the Letter which Constantine writes to Agatho and yee shall find the chiefe and onely Argument almost hee vses to moue him to condescend to an agreement with the Greeke Church is by laying before him the danger wherein the whole Church lyes by their dissention Tacere quippe hoc terribile existimamus vt ne plebs quae vt sanctificetur accedit ad sanctas Dei Ecclesias contrarijs cogitationibus occupetur considerans Antistitum ad inuicem dissonantiam And againe Propter viles igitur inquisitiones ne sit infinita contentio Ne nobis insultent Pagani Haeretici neque in nobis vsque quaque locum accipiant semina aduersarij c. Looke likewise that graue Harrangue of Constantine the great in the Councell of Nice where hee sayes Nolite ergo pati vt denuo perditus Daemon diuinam Christi disciplinam Religionem maleuolorum obtrectationibus lacerandam obijciat quando quidem intestina seditio in Ecclesia Dei conflata multo plus molestiarum acerbitatis quam quoduis bellum pugnave videtur mihi in se complecti c. Finally as to that yee obiect That the party defendant was forced to pursue It was not so but the party refusing obedience was vrged to obey or then giue sufficient reasons of their disagreement which was most iust and equitable For by one Statute made in the Assembly at Dundie Anno 1597. 14 Maij Sess. 7. it is ordayned That hee that sustaynes the negation with his vote shall giue rationem negandi The rest of your Assertions are manifest lyes and calumnies For all the Contradictors were heard with great patience the space of two dayes both in the priuy Conference and face of the Assembly while they had no more to obiect PP In free and lawfull Assemblies priuate reasoning is not sufficient but it is requisite that there bee also free reasoning in publique for the full information of all who haue the right of voting Neuerthelesse in this Assembly publique reasoning was hardly obtayned it was not full and free to propone and pursue with replyes ANS Publike reasoning was neuer refused neither was any man hindered to speake freely prouiding he spake pertinently but onely by the Lawes of disputation the President comptrolled those who transgressed the Lawes when either they reasoned not formally or not to the purpose or repeated arguments vnnecessarily which had beene already sufficiently discussed and this is the power of the Moderator by the Assembly at Saint Andrewes Anno 1571. in March But the falshood of this exception is cleared sufficiently by the true Narration of the proceedings of the Assembly PP In all free and lawfull Assemblies humble requests for mature deliberation in matters of great importance hath beene heard and granted but in this Assembly humble supplication for continuation till matters were more ripely considered or till his Maiesties answer were returned to the Petition of the defenders of the established order was peremptorily refused ANS If these matters had neuer beene proponed before or if we had not knowne his Maiesties will by his Letters hereabout perchance this exception might haue had some force but seeing some of these Articles had beene discussed in an Assembly at Abirdene and all proponed thereafter in an Assembly at Saint Andrewes at the which time the same request of continuation was proponed and an humbly sute sent to his Maiestie to accept of this delay to the end euery man might consider the matters more deeply with promise that if it would please his Maiestie to grant them leisure to aduise and instruct their flocks in the lawfulnesse of these Articles they should doe their best to giue his Maiestie satisfaction a longer continuation could not be harkened vnto especially since this Assembly was conuocated to trie the effects of their promises and that it was euident how a number of them against their promise were so farre from the instructing of their people in the lawfulnesse of the Articles that in the contrary they pressed most sediciously to stirre vp both their owne flocks and others to disobedience So at this time that proposition of continuation could not bee granted for three weightie reasons first because the former continuation was abused to the stirring vp of discontentment amongst the popular Secondly the Moderator and the Commissioners could not graunt it because of his Maiesties peremptory declaration of his will in his Highnesse Letter directed to the Assembly Thirdly because they perceyued by the disposition of the party that a further continuance would haue serued for nothing but to haue augmented the Schisme and diuision begun PP Pope Leo excepteth against the second Councell of Ephesus called praedatorie that Dioscorus who challenged the chiefe place kept not priestly moderation and would not suffer the Synodall Letters of the west to be read In all free and lawfull Assemblies good aduisements haue been heard and followed but in this Assembly some difficulties presented in writing to be considered and remoued before the voting were peremptorily reiected ANS That this reiection of these difficulties is a iust exception against the lawfulnesse of this Assembly yee proue it by the example of Pope Leo who excepted against the second Councell of Ephesus called Praedatorie because Dioscorus who was President there would not suffer the Synodal Letters of the West to be read in the Councell I will answere first to your proofe and then to the matter it selfe The reason yee vse is captious for yee reason from a partiall cause to a totall rejection The Councell of Ephesus was iustly reiected for diuers errours committed both in matter and forme yet yee choose onely one of the smallest and applie it falsly to this Assembly The errours in matter were That first it did approue hereticall doctrine peruerting the grounds of our Faith Next it restored pernicious Heretickes alreadie condemned in a Councel at Constantinople as Eutyches and his followers and condemned reuerend Fathers for maintenance of the true doctrine as Flautanus Archbishop of Constantinople and others The errours in the manner of proceeding were first The Orthodoxe Bishops beaten by the souldiers whom Dioscorus had brought into the Councell fustibus gladijs with swordes and staues whereby some dyed of their wounds receiued others were bound with chaines and others presently carried to prison Secondly the rest that remained were forced to subscribe a blanke paper wherein Dioscorus wrote whatsoeuer pleased him these were the causes why this Councell was called Praedatoria Synodus It is true The Pope of Rome alledged some other reasons for the nullitie thereof wherewith he was more offended because the same seemed derogatiue to his authoritie as that the Synode was not conuocate by him but by the Emperours commaund His Legats were not admitted Moderators therein And his Letters contayning his sentence and opinion were not publiquely

ordained in stead of sitting as yet we haue seene nothing against it neither Law Ciuill or Ecclesiasticall nor custome c. And I hope the reasons yee bring hereafter shal be found is friuolous But keeping your order I will first consider ●ow yee qualifie it to be a breach of the institution PP p. 35. lin 25. The first breach of the institution by kneeling is the taking away of that commendable gesture of sitting vsed by Christ and his Apostles at and after the Institution That Christ and his Apostles sate at Table yee labour to proue it by the words of the Euangelist Edenti●us ●llis whilest they did eate Matth. 26.26 Mark 14.22 Christ tooke bread and blessed c. If whilest they did eate say yee then also whilest they did sit as these two are conioyned Mark 14.18 The phrase imports that nothing interuened betwixt the eating and the celebration of the Sacrament it was therfore ministred vnto them ●itting This is your reasoning pag. 36. lin 16. seq ANS Your argument is a captione â fallacia consequentis For albeit nothing interuened betweene the eating of the Paschall Supper and the celebration of the Sacrament yet it followeth not that the Sacrament was ministred vnto them sitting For as yee say their eating of the Paschall Supper and sitting were coniunct and that eating of the Paschall Supper ceasing at the beginning of the institution of this Sacrament how will it follow that the gesture of sitting continued and was not changed For although nothing interuened betweene the Paschall Supper and the Sacrament yet the gesture might haue beene changed when the action was changed And as the one action ceased when the other began so the gesture of sitting might haue ceased with the action wherewith it was conioyned and another gesture might haue begun and been vsed in the celebration of the Sacrament Moreouer betwixt their eating of the Paschall Supper and the administration of the Sacrament to the Disciples there interuened diuers actes as first the taking of the bread secondly the thankesgiuing thirdly the breaking fourthly the precept Take yee eate yee fiftly the word whereby the element was made the Sacrament After this the Sacrament was giuen by our Sauiour and receiued by the Disciples which yee call the ministration of the Sacrament vnto them Now albeit it were true that between the time they sate eating of the Paschall Supper and the time when the Sacrament began to bee celebrated nothing had interuened yet betwixt that and the ministring of the Sacrament to the Disciples all these fiue acts interuened In which time the gesture of sitting might haue beene changed for if they changed it not at the breaking of the bread by our Sauiour which was the first act yet they might haue changed it at the thankesgiuing which was the second or at the breaking which was the third or at Christs pronouncing of the words whereby the element became a Sacrament So vpon this ground that they were sitting and eating yee cannot conclude that they receiued the Sacrament sitting seeing betwixt the time of their eating of the Paschall Supper so many acts interuened wherein the gesture of sitting might haue beene changed before they receiued the Sacrament Thus it is not certaine that they sate and receiued the Sacrament or as yee say that the Sacrament was ministred vnto them sitting If it be replied that it is not written that they rose and altered their gesture I answere à non scriptum ad non factum est non valet consequentia It is not written that they altered their gesture 〈…〉 cons●●●ence is ●uer good 〈…〉 is not written is to ●ee holden and ●el●eued for 〈◊〉 vndoubted truth in the wor●hi● of God ●ut after the eating of the Paschall Supper that the Apostles 〈◊〉 will at Table and a●●ered not their gesture vntill they ●ad receiued the ●acrament is a thing that is not written ●●erefore after the eating of the Paschall Supper that the A●ostles sate still without altering their gesture vntil they ●ad receiued ●he Sacrament is not to be beleeued and ●olden for an vndoubted truth in Gods worship But ●ee subio●ne 〈…〉 ●u●dem pag. P● This is so euident that neuer man doubted of it 〈…〉 ●eare euen ●hose who ●ffirme but against the 〈◊〉 that they ●●ood at the 〈◊〉 seruice confesse that 〈◊〉 sate at the second and at the celebration of the Sa●rament 〈◊〉 Master ●ohn Mare and the Bishop o● 〈◊〉 c. ANS ●hat this is not ●o euident as yee alledge is manifest 〈◊〉 that which hath bin said But the cause that hath 〈◊〉 ●oubt since the last yeare is the Paradox which ●ee and your followers haue vndertaken to defend since ●he ●ast ●eare of which ●euer Diuine either in the anci●nt o● reformed Church ●reamed of before namely ●hat we should beleeue without doubting First that the ●postles receiued the Sacrament sitting Secondly that ●his gesture of theirs was exemplary Thirdly that it was ●nstituted by our Sauiour to be obserued in all succeeding 〈◊〉 ●ince ●ee ●fter ●his manner vrge sitting with an ●pinion o● necessity ●nd impose it vpon the conscien●es of the weake with such terrours and feares that it ●annot be omitted without a manifest breach of the In●titution we can doe no lesse then trie by the Scriptures ●hether it be so or not The testimony of M. Iohn Mare or of any mortall man cannot tye our consciences to beleeue or practise any thing in Religion as an Article of Faith or a necessary point of Gods worship whereof there is not a cleare and vndoubted warrant in the Word of God And for the Bishop of Chester hee declareth his opinion onely but astricts no man to beleeue it nor will he haue any man to build thereupon as yee doe that the Apostles sitting was exemplary against the which his arguments in the Treatise that yee cite are such as might haue stayed you or any other that reason could satisfie from taking a pen in hand to the contrary PP That sitting was instituted I proue it by two reasons first the gesture that Christ retained in passing from the conclusion of the Paschall Supper That hee did institute sitting hee retained Therefore he did institute sitting ANS This is a Demonstration whereupon the faith and obedience of the worthy Receiuers must be grounded touching the gesture they must vse at Communion yet the Libeller perceiuing that the proposition of this argument may be denyed and being denied that it must be proued by this generall Whatsoeuer Christ retained that he did institute and considering withall that Christ retained many things as the place the quality of the bread and circūstance of time which he dare not affirme to haue bin instituted hee makes exception of such things as were retained of necessity and could not conueniently bee changed And thereupon subioynes this saying PP pag. 36. lin vlt. But as for the gesture of sitting he might haue changed it in standing or kneeling without working