not neede But because the world is now come to that Infirmity aÌ„d curiositie that maters must be defended against al obiections of heretikes and brought againe vnto examination after they haue ben already determined and beleued therefore hath the charitie and wisedom of the Popeâ— stoode to the charges of calling a general Councell which facte of his doth not proue that he may erre which the holy Ghost wil not suffer for his presence sake in the Church but that he doth so reasonably and discreetly order those maters that shal concerne our Faith that he wil not erre as much as mans wit can prouide but haue also the Aduise Consent and Iudgement of other which are of most authoritie and lerning in the Church of Christ. Let the Bishope of Rome alone Apol. be aboue al Councells Ergo one parte is greater than the whole No Syr Confut. 284 not parte greater than the whole but parte shall be greater than parte and one member worthier than an other The bodie and heade togeather make the whole and take away the head ye take away a parte of the whole Ye can not therfore make a diuisioÌ„ of the church into the whole and the heade but into the head and the reast of the partes of the whole And then it is no absurditie at all that the heade should be greater in price and honor than al the other members beside Athanasius denied to come to yâ— councell at Cesarea Apolog. Athanasius went away from the CouÌ„cell at Syrmium IhoÌ„ Chrysostom kept himself at home although the Emperour commaunded him to come to the Arrians Councel Maximus and Paphnutius depaâ—ted from the Councell at Palestine The Bishops of the East would not come to the Councel of Heretiks named Patropassians Paulinus and many others moe refused to come to the CouÌ„cell at Milane Ergo we are not to be blamed for not comming to the Councel at Trent You mutiply examples al in vaine Confut. 293. aÌ„d there is no proportion at al betwene the holy Fathers constancy and your disobedieÌ„ce For they refused to be at the commaundent of heretikes and their Fauourers but you contempne the lawfull Authority of Catholike Bishops If ye could truly say it that the Fathers gathered of late at Trent were ArriaÌ„s PatropassiaÌ„s or heretikes of any sort then might you laufully vse the examples of Athanasius Chrysostome Maximus Paphnutius and other But for as much as it is impossible that they could be heretikes which held no strainge and singular opinioÌ„s contrary to the Catholike coÌ„mon and receiued faith in the whole world you haue no excuse left for your pride aÌ„d disobedieÌ„ce That Cathalike Bishopes haue refused to come to the conspiracies of heretikes ye neuer neede to haue proued it But if ye can shew by any example that euer any good man yet did refuse to come to a CouÌ„cel lawfully called by the Pope then may that example make for you but there is none suche to be founde None of vs can be suffered to sit in yâ— Councell Apolog. The Popes Legats Patriarchs Archebishopes Bishopes and Abbates do conspire togeather sit alone by them selues and haue power alone to geue theyâ— consente And they wil haue al theyr opinions to be iudged at the will and pleasure of the Pope Princes and Embassadoures are but vsed as mocking stockes Ergo leâ—â—e not the wise and good maruaile if we haue those rather to sit at home then to iourney to the Conucel The Apostles neuer made such argumentes Confut. 294 And you if ye had in dede the holy ghost and if ye were chosen vesselles to cary the name of God abrode ye would neuer so childishely either without causâ— feare or if ye had a iust cause complainâ— and whine that you shal not sit whenâ— you come to the general Councel or that then ye shal haue a number of Bishopeâ— and Abbates against you or that al shalâ— be referred to the Pope or that they wilâ— mocke you if ye goe thither For none of all these thinges should haue letted you from telling your opinionâ— and for the rest you should haue referred al to the will of God what successe your words should haue had But either ye be so prowde that except you maie be of the chiefest you wil not come into the presence of reuereÌ„d and lerned Fathers or ye be so fainteharted that except the Prince be on your syde ye dare non trust the warrant of a safeconduct A Christian Prince hath the charge of both tables committed vnto him Apolog. Ergo not only temporal maters but Ecclesiastical also pertaine to his office He hath the Charge of both tables so far foorth Confut. .303 that he must defend the external geauing of due honour vnto God and outwarde exhibiting of charitie towards our neighbour But to offer vp Sacrifice to minister Sacramentes or to iudge of Murder Adultery Theft or any thing that is coÌ„mitted only in hart hath he any power Euery man seeth that worldly Princes meddle not with suche maters And therefore theyr charge is baser and narower thaÌ„ the charge of Bishopes and Priestes whom God hath appointed to be his Officers in the inward Courte of Conscience The prophets of God coÌ„maunded the Kinges to breake doune altars of Idols Apolog. and to write out the books of yâ— Law for them selues Ergo Ecclesiastical maters perteine to the iurisdiction of Kinges You see Confut. 303. then that the Princes are not Supreme but that betwene them and God the Prophete is the greater Officer For the Prophets coÌ„mauÌ„d the priÌ„ces obey The Prophets geaue charge the princes doe execute it The prophetes declare what an Idol is the Princes destroie it according to the prophetes instruction Moyses â— Ciuile Magistrate recieued from God Apolog. and delyuered to the people al the order for religion and sacrifices and gaue Aaron a sore rebuke for making the golden calfe Ergo ecclesiastical matters perteyne to the office of princes This example agreeth not Confut. 05. because Moyses was not a Ciuile magistrate only but also a priest And he was made also by God the supreme gouernour and captaine ouer al the number of the children of Israel were they temporal or Spiritual persons in figure of Christ. If ye can shew that our Sauiour left any such power vnto any king in the world and that his Apostles were not immediatly next vnto hiÌ„ the chiefe gouernors of his church then shal that temporal King haue the power whach ye labour to geaue him Iosue receyued commaundementes towchinge Religion and the seruice of God Apolog. Ergo Ecclesiasticall maters perteyne to theyr Iurisdiction He receyued commaundement Confut. 305. to meditate in the boke of the law which God had geauen by Moyses and to keepe it But this was so sar of from a Supremacy in maters Ecclesiasticall that it is expressly sayd in the boke of Numeri Cap. 17. that Eleazar the
besides the Canonical Scriptures nothing be red in the Church vnder the name of the holy Scriptures Therfore it forbiddeth not the reading of other thinges but in that sort as they should be commended and vttered for Scripture it selfe And strait wayes it foloweth in the same decree Let it be lauful also for the passioÌ„s and deaths of Martyrs to be read wheÌ„ their yerely feasts are kept Doe you see your lie now and wil ye lowly coÌ„fesse it Or are ye so froward that ye wil not see it or are ye so cunning that ye caÌ„ defend it Your coÌ„fession or defensioÌ„ we are content te heare but if you will be blinde lette others behold and consider that nothiÌ„g but Canonical Scripture and the deathes of Martyrs to be readen also in the Church can not both be true and stand togeather And beholde whiles I thought this obiection could not possibly be refelled it was for certainty reported vnto vs here by some that were present at M. Iewels sermoÌ„ at Poules Crosse the fiftenth of Iuly last that he complained that M. Doctor Harding wroÌ„gfully charged the authors of the Apologie with this place as being a manifeste abusing and mangling of the third CouÌ„cel of Carthage For sayd he we alleage not this out of the CouÌ„cel of Carthage but of the Councel of Hippo. Did ye so in deede Is not your Apologie therin against you Is not the CouÌ„cell of Carthage both named in the Text and noted in the margent thereof Your Latine is thus In Apol. Ecclesi Angl. Vetus Concilium Carthaginense iubet ne quid in Sacro coetulegatur praeter scripturas Canonicas aÌ„d in the margeÌ„t thus it is noted TertiuÌ„ Carth. ca. 47. And the English interpretation hath thus The old Councel at Carthage coÌ„maunded nothing to be readen in Christes coÌ„gration but the Canonical Scriptures and there lykewise in the margent ye put Concil Car. 3. cap. 47. How dare ye then so loudly to lie that ye alleaged the foresaied place out of the Councel of Hippo and not the Councell of Carthage It appereth well that Doctor Harding hath ye vpon the hippe when to saue your selues from the fall ye deny your owne words In his reply to D. Cole And wonder it is that M. Iewel would euer be the reporter of such an answer In his replie to D Harding .157 whereas himselfe hath vsed this very place of the CouÌ„cel of Carthage to like effect aÌ„d purpose as ye haue vsed it in your Apology Especially wheras there is no Councel of Hippo extant at al vnto which yet ye refer your selues CoÌ„sider therfore Indifferent reader of this place and suffer not thy selfe so to be abused that they shal make thee beleue that they alleaged not that Councell whiche thou maiest see with thy owne eyes to be named and quoted in theyr Apologie and that they folowed the Canons of the Councell of Hippo of whiche they can shewe no Canons at all that are extant In the Councell at Chalcedone Apolog. Ciuile Magistrate condemned for Heretiks by the sentence of his owne mouth the Bishoppes Dioscorus Iuuenal and Thalasius and gaue iudgement to put them from that promotion in the Church In what parte of that Councell Conf. 315. maie one finde this which you reporte In the thirde Action we doe reade that Paschasius with his two felowes the Legats of the Pope of Rome pronounced the sentence of condemnation against Dioscorus the forme whereof is fully there expressed How then Shall we thinke that one of the Popes Legates was a Ciuill Magistrate Or that the Ciuil Magistrate condemned Dioscorus ageine by the sentence of his own mouth when he was sufficiently iudged by the whole Councel of Bishopes Ye haue manie fetches yet you can not but be conuinced in this place of an impudent lye or extreme folie The most that ye might saie as farre as we can reache is that the Ciuile magistrate subscribed vnto the sentence of the Councell and by his voice also condemned Dioscorus for an heretike But this is not inoughe for you to saue your honesties For you must declare that the ciuil magistrat not only coÌ„deÌ„ned them by his testimonie or assent but also by his sentence and not such a sentence only as might concurre with the iudgmeÌ„tes of the Superiours lyke as euery bishoppe in a general Councel geueth sentence in causes Ecclesiasticall But it is included within that one senteÌ„ce which the chiefest in al the Councel do alow and geue but you must ê“ue that the ciuil mgistrat gaue the senteÌ„ce with his own mouth For so ye speake as though he had ben the the best man in the place and president of the Councel To this of Dioscorus that ye may aunswer the more fully I wil not troble yoâ— with Iuuenal and Thalassius whome ye haue also belyed in this mater Bishopes of an other sorte than Dioscorus was although you haue coÌ„deÌ„ned them together The Sixth Chapiter wherein is noted how the Apologie belieth and abvseth the Scriptures theÌ„selues It was saied indifferently to all the Apostles Apolog. Feed eye YOu meane Conf. 48. I am assured the one and tweÌ„ty of S. Iohn in which chapiter yet there is no meÌ„tion at al of the plural number with Feed ye but to S. Peter alone feede thou saieth Iesus my lambes feede thou my shepe Whether haue you a Ghospell not yet knowen to the world in which Christ saieth indifferently to al his Apostles feede ye Woe vnto you Scribes and Pharseis Apol. which haue takeÌ„ away yâ— keies of knowlege and haue shut vp the kingdome of heauen before men The Scripture saying Conf. 72. that one iote or title of the law shal not passe vntil all be fulfilled a changing of the numbre in any place of the Gospel must not be thought to be vnworth the noting Luâ—â— 11. Of the keie of knowlege Christ spake and not of keies in the plural number Paule saieth Apolo that the tyme should be when men should not awaie with holsome doctrine but be turned backe vnto â—ables and lyes and that wythin the very Church And that within the very Church Conf. 20â— Where finde ye these wordes in S. Paul That men should not away with holsome doctrine it is to be founde in the fourthe chap. of the seconde to Timothe And it is verified in all heretikes but that S. Paul â—hould referre those wordes to the very Church it selfe it is impudently attributed to the Apostle And to graunte vnto you as muche as might be for excuse of your wordes that in some sense it might be true that euen within the verie Churche men shoulde not away with holsome Doctrine that is that althoughe manie for theyr vnderstandinge dissented not from it yet in theyr lyuing they shoulde impugne it Yet to saye as you doe that S. Paule dothe expound his woordes of the verie Churche it is altogeather boldelie and falselie affirmed God Apolog. by
hys Prophetes often and ernestly commaundeth the King c. To wryte out the booke of the Lawe for hym selfe Ye bring this place to proue Conf. 303 that temporal Princes haue as much to doe with Religion as Bishoppes and Priestes For the Kinge saye you muste write out the Lawe Deut. 17. But whie leaue ye out that whiche foloweth accipiens exemplar takynge the Copie of the Priestes of the Trybe of Leuie By which woordes it is clearlie perceyued that it is not in the Kynges handes to meddle with Scriptures but as he receaueth them of his betters in that authoritie the Priestes King Ioas bridled the riot and arrogancie of the Priestes Apol. We finde no such wordes in the text Conf. 307 4. Reg. 12. Iosue receiued coÌ„maundements Apolo specially touching religion We haue readen the whole Chapiter Iosue 1. Confut. .305 and we find no suche specialities there but onelie that he shoulde passe ouer Iordane And diuide the lande of Promise and be of good cumforte and strength with other lyke woordes all to the Temporall Gouernement of the â—eople but of Religion Sacrifice Praying for the people expounding the Law c. no one sentence Yea rather as it appereth in the first setting of him in his office the scripture saieth expressly 〈◊〉 any thing be to be done for this Iosue Eleazar the Priest shal aske counsel 〈◊〉 the Lorde Nu 27. At his worde vndoubtedly at the Priests he shal goe furth and come in c. Which of the two then 〈◊〉 nerer to God aÌ„d worthier by his office He that speaketh himselfe with God or he that heareth God his word by any interpretatour He which geaueth the commaundement or he which must obey it Doe no more so with the scriptures aÌ„d if none shal let you to make your own sense vpon them yet neuer take so much vpon you to put in the text it self which is not of the Scripture And further consider whether this be not to adde and take awaie from the Scripture to make that of the plural nuÌ„ber which is of the singular only To suppresse those wordes which being put in doe dissolue the knoâ— of the question To put that in whiche is not at al in the text To alleage sayinges that can not be found And to misconstrue sentences that are founde And then when you haue considered all this conferre therewith that which ye finde in the Apocalipse of S. Iohn that If any man adde vnto these things Apo vl God shal lay vpon him the plagues that are written in this booke And if anie man diminishe of the wordes of the booke of this prophecy God shal take his part out of the booke of life and out of the holy Citie and from these things which are writteÌ„ in this booke The 7. Chapiter conteining the flat lyes of the Apologie There haue ben wittely procured by the Bishop of Rome certaine persons of eloquence enough Apolog. not vnlcarned neither which should put their helpe to his cause now almost desperate NAme the Pope which hath procured them Confut. 9 Name the Persone which haue ben procured and ye shal either confesse your faultes or stand gyltie for two lyes Proue also that he wylely procured ani meÌ„ to help his cause because this word wylely maketh your lye aÌ„d slauÌ„der more greeuous For either you meane that he did it in dâ—de and that he would not be sene to doe it either that he did it boldly and manifestly but yet vsed a witty and subtil meane vnto it ConcerniÌ„g the first he neded not to be ashamed to defend his cause He might boldly without reproch choose any of the lerned aÌ„d eloqueÌ„t Catholiks for that purpose For the faith which the whole Churche opeÌ„ly coÌ„fesseth â–ª what dishonesty at al is it to coÌ„maund aloud that the best lerned shuld declare it and by declaring of it coÌ„meÌ„d it that wheÌ„ iust cause is geueÌ„ of it it mai be knoweÌ„ for a truth sufficieÌ„tly pued ConcerniÌ„g the second it were a small part of policy to labour by a fancy to perswade the whole world in a falsitie Princes desirous to restrain the gospel sought many wayes Apolog. but preuailed nothing now almost the whole world doth begyn to opeÌ„ their eies to behold yâ— light What place hath your gospel in Spain Conf. 1â— What place in Italy What successe hath your gospel in France WheÌ„ Lady Marie was once proclaimed Queene how preuailed your preachiÌ„g Did ye not flee beyond sea into free Cities And why into those more thaÌ„ into ani other but because ye preuaile not with Princes but such as cal you to their fauour of whoÌ„ yet ther are so few and so weak in al ChristeÌ„dom that in the rekning they make a litle somme And now say you the whole world almost doth begyn to open their eyes A worshipful begining after xvâ— yearis But why say ye not without almost that al the whole world begiÌ„neth to opeÌ„ their eyes You haue a coÌ„science I trow in making a lye and therfore you add almost How much theÌ„ lacketh I pray you If Loâ—aÌ„ Paris Bonony Padua SalamaÌ„ca CoÌ„pluâ—uÌ„ and other great Vniuersities but smal â—ortioÌ„s of the whole if these were lightened by your gospel would ye put out your almost What meane ye by this almoste Perchance all is ouercomed with you sauing Rome itselfe and the small Cities about it Nay haue ye not greate and Princely states as of Florence Vrbine Genua Ferrara Millaine Venice Treuers Mentes Colone Salisburg and the Catholike Cantones And sundrie Countries as Bauarie Sauoy Burgundie Loraine Brabrant Flaunders Holland Artoys Henaut Friseland Guelderland Cleueland Prussia Carinthia And many Ilandes as Sicilia Corsica Sardinia Maltha and the ZelaÌ„ds And many kingdoms as Naples FraÌ„ce Spaine Pole Bohemie Hungary and Portugale and the Empire it selfe which see well enough how darke your gospel is But no matter for these small peeces What say you then to the new Indians which alone are greater than all whom we haue rekened If you lacke but them alone haue you all the world all most No This is so great a lye that â— might turne it backeward and say the whole world almost doth defie your Gospel All theyr trauayle hath in a manner come to naught Apolog. How say you to the late general CouÌ„cel Conf. 15 â–ª which had so woÌ„derful good successe and which is so executed in Rome it selfe that not only the Bishopes but Cardinals also are sent to theyr cures and goe obediently vnto them No bodye driuing it forwarde and without anie wordly helpe King Harry the eygth then is no body with you the Duke of Saxonie Lantgraue of Hesse King Edwarde the sixth the Villaines of Boheme the Hugonites of France c. Al these then are no body On the other syde our cause againste the wil of Emperours If Charles alone had not geuen more to clemencie which ouercommeth most of all noble personages
for thee â—eter I haue praied that thy faith should not â—aile and thou being once turned confirme thy bretherne Againe to S. Peter he committeth his whole flocke saying Ioan 21. feede my lambes fede my sheepe To S. Peter then as the singularly chosen the promises are made and the priuileges are by praier obtained aÌ„d the charge by expresse worde is committed Nowe for confirmation of these wordes consider the effectes that haue folowed what heresie was euer mainteined by the See of Rome What question was there euer in the Church of Christ and not referred to that See and determined or pacified by it What See hath continued in al tempestes but onlie the See of Rome Who can shewe theyr succession from the Apostles but onlie the Bishopes of Rome What See is preferred in the writinges of holy Fathers but the See of Rome onlie That is the Chaire vnto which perfidiousnes can haue no accesse 〈…〉 That is the chaire of vnitie in which God hath put the doctrine of veritie 〈…〉 That is the Chaire in which euill men are constrayned to speake good thinges that the faith of the Christians may be out of doubt with them whiles it shall depend vpon the infallible promises of God and not vpon the deceiptful coniectures of men This Churche therefore being the Church which we cal Catholik in which the chiefe Master of the worke laied S. Peter as the first stone next to himselfe and in which there is a continual rew of Bishops one vpon an other to the meruelous strengthning and beautifieng of the whole building against which Church it is impossible that any wind or weather should so preuaile as it might ouerturne it for it is builded vpon a sure Rocke in which Church also there is the presence of the Holyghost sent of our Sauiour to teach it all truth and to tarie with it for euer these thinges being most euident and consequent what a blaspheâ—ouse lye is it to say that Christ hath told longe before that this Churche should erre For what other thiÌ„g is that to say but to blaspheme either the wisedoÌ„ of God as though he had not erected a church that should not erre or his power as though he could not bring it to passe or his Charitie as though he would not or his veritie as though he had not sayed poynting to S. Peter Math. 1â— vpon this Rock I wil build my Churcâ—e and againe I haue prayed for thee Peter Luc. 22. that thy Faith might not faile But for this tyme this is inough to note only the blasphemie he that wil see is more largely betraied and conuinced let him reade Doctor Saunders booke lately set furth of the Rocke of the Church The 12. Of the Contradictions Martin Luther Hulderycke Zuinglius Apolog. â—74 a being most excellent men euen sent of God to geue light to the worlde firste came vnto the knowledge of the Gospell ERgo before their tyme Confut. ther was a generall darknes in the world I wysse it is not so harde a matter to find out Gods Church Apolog. .24 for the Church of God is set vpoÌ„ an hill glistering place Ergo Luther and Zuinglius could not be the first that shoulde see the Church Confut. except either Christ had no Church at all in the world wheÌ„ Luther was borne or except a Citie set vpon an hil and for that purpose vndoubtedly sette that it might be sene should not yet be sene before Luther came in with his lanthorn We saye we haue no meede at all Apolog. 125. by our owne workes and dedes Ergo it booteth not to labour Confut. except it be for nothing God hath plucked vs out from the power of darknes Apolog. 225. to serue the liuing God to cut away all the remanents of synne and to worke out Saluation in feare and trembling Ergo that is not without some meede and rewarde Confut. by which we worke our saluation Our Aduersaries must be heaued froÌ„ their mother Apolog. 194. that is from this vaine coloure and shadow of the Church Ergo ye should vtterly dâ—spise the Church Confut. especially as it is now if yoâ—r aduersaries mother be of no substance but a vaine colour only To say truely Apolog. 192. we doe not despise the Chuâ—che of these men how so euer it be ordered by them now adayes â—rgo the Catholiks Church is no vaine colour of a Church Confut. seing that your selues dare not despise it 〈◊〉 popes had neuer hitherto leisure to 〈…〉 and earnesâ—â—â—e of those matters Apolog 19. 〈◊〉 some other cares do let them and â—iuers waies pul them Item â—61 they compt these thinges to be but coÌ„mon and trifling studies and nothing to appertaine to the Popes worthines Ergo being so carelesse Confut. they would neuer haue perceiued the case of their Religion nor procured men to defend it There haue ben wylily procured by yâ— Bishop of Rome Apolog. certaine persons of eloquence inough and not vnlearned neither which should put their helpe to this cause now almoste despaired of Item In deede they perceyued that their owne cause did euery where goe to wracke Ergo it appeareth Confut. that the Popes haue had care of the cause of Religion In this point that is lifting vp the Sacrament consisteth nowe all theyr Religion Apolog 250. Ergo al is not in salt Confut. water c. In these thinges they meane salt water Apolog. 255. Oyle spittle Palme they haue set all their Religion Ergo all is not in lifting vp the Sacrament Confut. What fault haue they once acknowledged and confessed Apolog. 209. Why burden ye then vs with not amending manifest and ofte confessed faultes Confut. Of so many Apolog 291. so manifest so often confessed by them and so euident errours what one haue they amended Why aske you then Confut. what faulte we haue once confessed For so much as we were most ascertened of God his will Apolog. 327. and compâ—ed it a wicked thing to be careful and ouercuÌ„bred about yâ— iudgments of mortal men Therefore ye should haue neuer called a Synode of mortal men Confut. Yet it foloweth Therefore we thought good to remedie our Churches by a prouincial Sinod Apolog. But what neded a remedy by a Synod Confut. if mortal mens iudgmentes are not to be cared for Our cause against the wil of Emperoures from the beginning Apolog. .15 against the willes of so many Kinges in spite of the Popes and almost maugre the head of al men hath taken encreace c. You neuer nede then Confu to aske leaue that your Gospel may procede if it be so victorious and triumâ—hant that maugre the head of al men almost it take encrease Let them geue the Ghospell free passage Apolog 133. let the trueth of Ihesu Christ geue his clere light
plaied at dice neuer so much The Popes would needes make 〈◊〉 the realme triâ—utary to them Apolog. Ergo 〈◊〉 most iustly haue forsaken them It is not for Diuines to alleage anâ— such temporal cause Confut. â—49 of mony mater 〈◊〉 their defence in departiÌ„g froÌ„ the churcâ—â— For seeing that the Popes Authority â—â—meth froÌ„ God what discharge of my 〈◊〉 is that to me if he do more than 〈◊〉 shuld by right and Conscience Do noâ— temporal princes somtimes oppresse theiâ— Subiectes and yet continew in their place and authority aboue their subiectsâ— Your Argument therefore and fact is naught And if the argument were true yet haue you no occasion to depart from the See of Rome vnto which in Quene Maries time you were reconciled considering that no tribute was required of you no not so much as the restitution of the Abbey landes The Second Chapter conteining certaine Absurdities of the English Apologie They be not mad at this day Apolog. so many free cities so many Kings so many Princes which haue falleÌ„ away from the seate of Rome and haue rather ioyned themselues to the Gospell of Christ. HOW thinke you then Confut. .16 by coÌ„mon reason May any Protestant say that AL free Cities AL Kinges AL Princes and AL Christen men and womeÌ„ froÌ„ the highest to the lowest were mad in these last ix hundred yeares in which yow disdaine and yet confesse the Pope to haue ben obeied of all Christendome and him selfe in so saying be nothing madde Or can you reproue your Aduersaries if they be so vnmannerly and hasty in their termes as to call yours so many free Cities c. madde where your selues iudge that all your Forefathers for hundred of yeares together haue bene madde when they all folowe â–ª with one consent Papistrie If it were a synne in the Heluetianâ— to deliuer their own countrie from foreâ— gouernment Apolog. specially wheÌ„ they were 〈◊〉 proudly and tyranniously oppressed yet to burthen vs with other mens faultes or them with the faultes of theire forefathers it is against all right and reason Why then do you obiect against the Catholiques the euill liues and deedes of Popes Confut. 177. Cardinalles Monkes Friers Priestes which may be founde in anie sorte or condition of men after some continuance of tyme and age And why tel you abiding in Englande tales vppon Italy Spayne or other countries of Aloisios Casios Diasios and others to burthen thereby the knowen and auncient Church In tymes past Apolog. where the first Christians our forefathers in making their prayers to God did tourne them selues towardes the Easte there were that sayed they worshipped the Sunne and reckened it as God And you Confut. .191 to proue your selues the sweete Sonnes and exacte folowers of Antiquitie haue altered the olde maner and custom of the Catholike Church by charginge your Ministers to praye towardes the sowth and that in the chiefest tyme and place of all your deuotion and Religion If you knew whether to turne your selues after the putting awaye of the olde faith and ceremonies thereof why chose you the south rather than the East And why remembred ye not the first Christians vsage Except notwithstanding the remembrance of it you regarded not what they had don and practised How absurdly then cal you them the first Christians and your forefathers whom ye disdain or be ashamed to folow in the maner of their praying That old Father Augustine denyeth it to be leefull for a monke to spende his tyme slouthfully Apolog. and vnder pretensed holinesse to liue all vpon others And who so thus liueth an olde father Apollonius likeneth him to a theefe See the pity which these men take of the old Fathers Confut. 239. because their sayinges are not regarded and see the pityful absurdity in which themselues are taken whiles they would seeme to alowe the old Fathers S. Augustine liketh not the idlenes of Monkes but ydlenes put away did he not alow the order of them His booke is De opere Monachorum of the labour of Monkes prouing that none of them must so thinke hym selfe addicted to the seruice of God in praying reading or in spirituall exercises that he should not sette his handes to corporal labour And he maketh it not a case of necessitie that euerie Monke must labour but he impugneth theyr sayinges which made a necessitie of it not to labour wyth the bodie for theyr lyuing but to serue God and man by the labour of mynd only as in praying preaching and such like Nowe therefore if S. Augustine would haue had the very Order it selfe and profession of Monkes destroyed he should haue made short and saied not that such monks as wold hold the opinioÌ„ that they should not labour bodily ought to be sette therevnto but simplie and plainly he would haue concluded that all Munkerie should be taken away And then how could he make a whole Booke De opere Monachorum of the labour of Monkes except he would find some what where nothing is and build a house without labourers But you whom the idlenes of Monkes offendeth and the neglecting of the old Fathers orders shew to vs I pray you your refourmed Monasteries Let Heretikes shevv their monasteries And if your factes haue declared before and yet hytherto your rayling tongues can testifie that ye hate the verie Order and Rule of Monkes nor would abide a laboriouse and a vertuous Monke in your companie how vnsensiblie doe you confesse the olde Fathers to haue spoken againste idle Monkes whereby they signifie no abhomination to be in the Order it selfe your selues allwayes so mockingly and spitefully handeling not distinctly idle Monkes but without all addition Monkes As maye appeare by Iohn Foxes no litle booke of Actes and MonumeÌ„ts to name one for all and by your great muse in the next sentence folowing these words of which I speake where you wote not whether to name them droues or heardes of Monks as though no other title might be geuen vnto them besides that which is proper for brute beastes Concerning the old Father Apollonius if idle Monkes be theeues what call you them which doe robb and spoile not only the idle but the laborious and holy Monkes And robbe them not of their house land and goodes only but of their fame and estimation and robbe againe not only the Monkes but the iust and true owners of such goodes as were bestowed vpon Monasteries But put the case al Monks had bene theeues He that robbeth a theefe is he not him selfe a theefe And if by stelth a true mans landes be taken from him should it not returne in conscience vnto him againe if truth and Iustice were sought for and not gaine or priuate lust How well therefore your Procedinges agree with truth and honestie Apolog. lette it be iudged by the spoyle of Monkes and Monasteries The old Councell at Carthage commaunded nothing to be readde in Christ hys Congregation
to crake of these thinges which are readie to depart as lightly as they came and returne backe againe as quickely as they went away Or doth it consist in true visions and reuelations Not by meanes of reuelations That is much Yet they also shuld be referred to the iudgemeÌ„t of the Rulers in Christs Church before ful credite might he geaueÌ„ vnto them because there may be iust feare of illusions The case therfore being so harde with you as we take it name that meane which reioyseth your harte so much by which aboue the rate of other poore soules you vnderstand the Iudgement of God and stand to it only The Scripture forsooth you wil runne vnto and there loe God him self speaketh vnto you But how Immediatlie by him selfe or by meanes of inferiour things If immediatly why goe ye then to the Scripture Ergo by the meanes of the Characters and letters of the scripture and then the crake is very absurde which is needlesse in that kind of immediate talke But if he speake to you and you heare him â–ª by meanes of these visible characters and letters of Scripture of which visible letters wordes and sentences be made and in which words intelligible senses are concluded and if his be all that so stoutly ye 〈◊〉 of â–ª that ye staÌ„d vnto Gods only iudgemeÌ„t it hath a shew of a great mater and in deede it is of no valew and it maketh the reader beleue that you are wiser then other in your procedings yet whosoeuer wil coÌ„sider them earnestlie shal perceaue that your crakes are most vnreasonable For in the meanes which Almightâ— God vseth in vttering his blessed wilâ— vnto our grosse vnderstandings and sensible natures there be diuers degrees â–ª and not all of like dignitie or worthines As when he declared his minde to the Fathers in the old lawe by sending of Angels in forme of men and when he sent afterwardes his only begotten Sonnâ— in the truth of our nature To vnderstand the vvil of God bimeanes of vvriting is one of the basest And when this blessed Sonne of his declared what he was by sundry miracles and further chose certaine simple men and vnlerned to send them into the world to conquer al the pride and knouledge of the world and to be short when these Apostles of Christ sent vnto diuers places the will of God conteined in their epistles or Gospell In all these degrees the lowest and basest meane to deriue by it vnto vs the will of God is by Scripture and letters You therfore which by your staÌ„ding to Gods only iudgemeÌ„t doe meane his iudgement vttered by meanes and not immediatly by himselfe you also which doe signifie thereby that you folow a better and more excelleÌ„t way than other do you I saie being proued to take the wil of God vttered in scripture and writing for that most excellent waie which by all reason is a more vnperfite and base meane thaÌ„ the appearing of Angels preaching of men or working of miracles what do you els but crake of that as the chiefest which hath his better and refer your self to that as principal whiche requireth other thinges to goe before it If you wil heare more certainly and principally that which God commaundeth ye must go not to the scriptures immediatly but to them that shall tell you what the Scripture is and reade it after a Catholike tune vnto you The Pope is appeached by vs of hainous and foule enormities Apol. and hath not yet put in his answere In what court Confut. 218. before what iudges What yere of our Lord for what foul enormity Your selues may be wel enough Phariseis But wher are your scribes your sumners your apparitors for this mater Is not thâ—s an exceding absurd folie to appeach which importeth an order and forme of law by you obserued him with whoÌ„ you haue nothing to doe And to complaine that he putteth not in his answer whom you can not appeach And which if he would knoweth not where anie consistorie of yours is to answer you in it Your selues would not appere being summoned to the late general Councel where out of al ChristeÌ„dome there were your betters both for spiritual and teÌ„poral gouermeÌ„t and therefore ye would not because they haue as you must now thinke nothing to do with you and now your worshipful wisedomes haue appeached the Pope as though you had iurisdiction ouer him Besides this if the Popes enormities of which you speake coÌ„cerne the priuate liâ—e and maners of the Pope may an English magistrate whatsoeuer he be require by law and conscience that cause to be brought before him On the other side if ye haue appeached not Pius Quintus now Pope a most nolie and innocent Father nor anie of his late predecessours in this respecte as they were priuate men but as heades of the church then haue ye called into iudgemeÌ„t al ChristiaÌ„s which obey them as accessories to their enormities And so besides the Pope Cardinals Archbishops Bishops Priests and others of the clergy either ye haue â–ª or by as good law you may appeach the King of Spaine Fraunce Scotland c. with al the princes Dukes and States of Christendome and yet not accuse them for feare but be shrew theÌ„ for your office sake that they do not put in theyr aÌ„swer Such iudges as you be â–ª such a king was capitaine Kete or if that similitude be not fit you be like to the madde frontike prince of whom it is readen that he tooke care and ioye ouer al the shippes of strangers which passed in great numbre doune by his palace hauing in deede poore kinge verie fewe good vesselles of his owne to crake of Trulie whether the Pope will put in his answer or whether he hath receiued your Iudgement I wil not striue vpon it but for desire to see the ende of your processe against him ye should haue don exceading wel me thinketh to send your Officers some to Rome there to watche when the Pope with al his Cardinalles sitteth in the Consistoriâ— other some to the Emperour wheresoeuer he be in Campe or in Courte and when eche of them is occupied about maters of the Churche and the Empire sodaynlie let your Officers come and arrest I can not tel yet in whose name excepte it be of the Apologie of the Church of Englande but it is no mater for the name let your Officers doe as you commaunde them and lâ—tte them firste arreste the Pope anâ— his Cardinalles as principall with al the Bishoppes about him And then afterwardes the Emperour as accessorie with all his Dukes and nobles and bring them closely to London before hygh commissioners and vntil they wil be ruled and put in theyr answer set them faste here and there through all the gates and prisons in London For either you haue no law or possibilitie to appeach the Pope or els surely ye may by these meanes constraine him to bring in his
Ecclesiasticall or the Temporall Court to encounter them withal they did not belieue And so I say and thou sayest went to and fro betwene them without anie conclusion or profite To driue therefore the mater to some Issue let vs heare no more saieth he I saie or thou sayest but this sayeth our Lorde his bookes we both belieue we both obey there let vs seeke the Church Now in other Kyndes of question as of fasting receiuing the SacrameÌ„ts keping of holy dayes and other traditions S. Augustine wold neuer bind vs to Scripture onlie him selfe saying of these and the like in his Epistle ad Ianuarium August â— epist. 116. ad â—anuarium What so euer the whole Church thorough the worlde dothe kepe thereof to dispute it is a most insolent madnes Likewise also towarde such kynde of Aduersaries as woulde be tried hy testimonies of olde Fathers togeather with Scriptures or without expresse Scripture he would neuer charge vs to vse these wordes onelie This saieth our Lorde but well would haue bene contented that we should saie â–ª this saieth Cyprian Ambrose Basile c. him selfe speakinge of Auncient Fathers before and in his tyme after this fasshion Quod credunt Contra IulianuÌ„ PelagianuÌ„ lib. 1. ca. 2. credo that whiche they beleue I beleue that whiche they say I say c. Therefore ye haue abused very muche your Reader and S. Augustine bothe making the one to thinke the other to testifie that we should not fight against Heretikes but with expresse Scripture onelie Fulgentius ad Thrasimundum saith Apolog. that Christ thoâ—gh he be absent from vs concerning his manhode yet is euer present with vs concerning his Godhead The forme of a seruant is one thing Confut. 3â— and manhood is an other The forme perteineth to shape and figure which couereth our substance and maketh it visible the manhood perteineth to the inwarde nature and is only intelligible The first is not graunted nor taught of the Catholikes that Christ is with vs now in earth after the forme of a seruant The second yet they confesse and belieue that he is with vs really in his manhood The first is Fulgentius true sayeng to the king Thrasimund The second is your deprauing of Fulgentius in face of the worlde Sozomenus saieth of Spiridion Apolog. and Nazianzene saieth of his owne Father that a good and diligent Bishoppe doth serue in the ministery neuer the worse for that he is maried but rather the better and with more hablenes to doe good It will neuer I feare be better with you Confut. 76. but alwaies worse and worse Would ye make Gregorie Nazianzene contrarie to the Apostle And S. Paule so expresselie pronouncyng that he which hath a wyfe is carefull for the thinges of the world 1. Cor. 7. and is diuided thinke you that any Auncient Father or writer whose testimonie your selfe doe trust were likely to say that a Bishop dothe serue the better in the ministery for that he is maried I am glad ye geue credit to Sozomenus and Nazianzene vsing them for witnesses that we may see whether ye wil regard their owne very wordes and crie them mercy for abusiug them Sozomenus saith thus speaking of SpiridioÌ„ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lib. 1. c. â—◠〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 This Spiridion waâ— an husband man hauyng wyfe anâ— chyldren but he was not therefore the worse to Godward How thinke you then doth he praise Mariage Doth he saie He serued God the better and wyth more hablenes by reason thereof Doth he not rather note it as a rare and a singular grace in him that hauing such occasions of diuidyng and distracting his mind he neuerthelesse was nothing abated in his diligence and attention towardes God Nazianzene likewyse speaketh of S. Basiles Fathers perfect life in mariage with A but yet saying Although he put himself in bondes of mariage yet he liued so therein as he was letted no whyt therefore from the attaining of perfect vertue and folowing of wisedome As who should say it commeth most times so to passe that when students or holy men are maried they looke but seldome on their bookes but wait vpon the busines of the world yet was it otherwyse with Basiles Father For he although he put himself in bonds of mariage yet he was no whit letted therefore c. In which words he coÌ„mendeth his vertue and geueth no exaÌ„ple to vnmaried Priests that if they wil be furthered to perfectioÌ„ they should not be without a bedfelow nomore thaÌ„ he which should report of an other that he sitteth at a table ful of delicats and yet neuer surfeiteth vpon them that proue that it is a right waye to temperance alwaies to be at many and fine dishes Whereas contrariwise in all things that are delectable vnto the senses and hurtfull by excesse vnto morall vertues the safest way is to flee from occasions of euill vntil by longe custome an habite be obteined in the vertue And then as it is an argument of greate perfection to liue with a woman and nothing to be hindred in deuotion by her so it is so rare a vertue and needelesse thoughe it be in a man to be practised that as it may sometimes come to passe that one is not the worse yet there was neuer yet any man so blind and vnsensible which would thinke it to be a preferment toward perfection to be at bed and at borde with a woman The more you haue then to answer for which haue fathered such a sense on S. Gregory Nazianzene S. Hierome Al these things saith he which without the testimony of the Scriptures Apolog. are holdeÌ„ as deliuered from the Apostles be throughly smitten doune by the sword of Gods worde He saith not generally al those things Conf. 30 oiÌ„a but In â—rinâ—uÌ„ cap. Aggaei Sed alia that is and other thinges also And he saith not which are holden asseruÌ„tur but which they find and fâ—ncie meaning heretikes of whom onely he speaketh in that place And therefore he maketh not a generall rule against Traditions but a special prouision against the deceits of heretikes It was ryghtly said by Pius the second a bishop of Rome Apolog that he sawe many causes why wiues should be taken away from Priests but many moe and more weighty causes why they ought to be restored to them againe His wordes Conf. â—0 as Platina reporteth are these that mariage hath bene takeÌ„ froÌ„ Priestes with great reason And that it semeth it were to be restored again with greater Note it semeth not it ought and note greater reaâ—on and not manie moe and more weyghtie And if he had so ernestly spoken as you suppose yet dothe he not allowe the mariage of priestes whiche he confesseth to haue bene taken away for greate cause but so muche he seemeth to be greaued with the loosenes of theÌ„ in his time that he thought the causes why they might be permited to
came also thither And seeking the fauâ—â— of his frinds in a certain cause of his owâ— at length he coÌ„meth to Cardinal Martin Yea sayth he Decepisti me Nesciebâ—tibi imminere negotiuÌ„ tolle equuÌ„ tuuÌ„â— ecce in stabulo est you haue deceued me I knew not ye had any sute in haÌ„d Take your horse to you loe yonder he is in the stable This is one and he I truste no deceauer or Pilate An other Cardinal Gauâ—rid is Gaudfridus Bishope of Cartres which many yeres together was at his own charges Embassadour and legat froÌ„ the Pope in the costs of Gascoigne Of whoÌ„ he telleth that ther was a sturgeoÌ„ brought vnto him by a certain priest but I wil not take him sayd the Cardinall except I pay for him Againe a Ladie of the towne where he lodged brought vnto him for deuotioÌ„ and good wil three treen disshes with a towel he behâ—ld theÌ„ he praised theÌ„ but in any case he would not take them And at both these tymes S. Bernard was present And saieth herevpoÌ„ vnto Eugenius O that we might haue store of such meÌ„ geueÌ„ vnto vs as thes were whoÌ„ I brefly haue spokeÌ„ of If therefore the Pope him selfe was good and some Cardinalles and Bishopes were holie men how can you withoâ— impudencie drawe S. Bernard to such 〈◊〉 sense as thoughe he should condemâ—â— the whole See and Church of Romeâ— And if as I saied before you thinke him not to speake generally what helpeth it your cause in departing from the Church to proue that some Prelates be Pilats Secondly I might wel and truely say that S. Bernard speaketh against the maners of the Court of Rome and not against the faith of the Church of Rome And though he should name the Pope for his euill behauiour which he doth not a Pilate yet concerning his Authoritie and office he geueth vnto him all the titles of excellencie that are found in the Scriptures from Abel to Christ. Affirming besides him to be the shepheard not only of shâ—pe but of all other Shepheardes also â–ª and Others to haue bene called to take parte of the cure but hym to haue fulnes of power with other such wordes more of like sense Thirdly I aunswere he neuer spake so vnreuerentlie of the Pope in all hys workes And that the testimony which you alleage is not in the bookes ad Eugenium The old Father Epiphanius saieth Apolog. it is an horrible wickednes Epiph. and a sinne not to be suffred Haere 61. for any man to set vp any picture of Christ him selfe See how these felowes caÌ„ amplifie and â—et furth a lie Confut. â—35 Epiphanius they thinke â—aketh for theÌ„ and therfore they dresse â—im in their own colours Ye find not in hiÌ„â—either these greauous and mightie terâ—es horrible wickednes and Synne â—ot to be suffred Neither these precise â—onclusions that any man shal not set â—p anie picture Neither this aggrauaâ—ing additioÌ„ of Christ him self He speaâ—eth quietly and he speaketh not geneâ—ally but against a certaine kind of Imaâ—es or honor done to them as appeareth by the words istiusmodi vela such kinâ— of veiles And he prescribeth nothinâ— against the Image of our Sauiour Christâ— If ye wil not leaue this place but proâ—â— that it maketh against Images Pluckâ—â— out first these lies and repaire the testimonie making it neither better neither worse then Epiphanius doth permit you and then shal you be otherwise answered The old fathers Origen Chriysosâ—â— exhort yâ— people to reade the scriptures Apolog. to bye them bookes to reason at home betwixt theÌ„selues of diuine maters wiâ—es with their husbaÌ„ds parents with their childreÌ„ These men condeÌ„ne yâ— scriptures as deade â—lemeÌ„ts And as much as eueâ— they may barre the people from them Ye ioyne these two Fathers togeather as though they both confirmed your lyes Confut. 236. But Origene neither speaketh of byeing bookes Ho. 9. in Leuit ca. â—16 nsither of reasoning at home 〈◊〉 the scriptures but of comiÌ„g to church aÌ„â— heariÌ„g the scriptures and of thinking afterwardes at home vpon the keping of them in mynde and folâ—wing them Then as concerning S. Chrysostome he speaketh agaynst suche as neglected the reading of Scriptures and thought this to he a sufficient excuse for them that they were no Monkes Ho. 2. in Matth. as who shuld saâ—e we haue wife children and household with other things besides to thinke vpon and therefore it is not our vocation to looke in the lawe of God and by that to amende our liues He speaketh likewise against other which loued to haue faier and trym books of the Gospel for ostentation sake not to reade them and profit by them Of which sort ther may be found at this preseÌ„t som in the world which liuing loosly and regarding their soules health slenderly cary yet the testameÌ„t or some parte thereof bouÌ„d vp in goldeÌ„ forel and hang it about their necks like a Iewel But as for the biyng of Scriptures he spaketh it by occasioÌ„ oÌ„ly in reprouiÌ„g such as had books in their cupbords aÌ„d no vnderstaÌ„ding or sense of them in their mind For after he had saied Hom. 3â— in loan This hauing of bookes coÌ„meth of the Iewish ambition and craking vnto whom the coÌ„maundementes were geuen in letters and vnto vs not so but in the tables of our hart which are of fleash least he shuld sem to derogate somwhat hereby vnto the written Scriptures he addeth yet I do not forbid it to gette books yea rather I pray you most ernestly get them but so that we maie repere often in our minde both the letters and sence the of them He was not therefore so careful of it that euery man shoulde bye the scripture but this he studied for that euery man should be diligeÌ„t in bearing away of the scriptures readen â–ª or preached in the open church Proue ye now that S. Chrysostome exhorted all and singular of his people to bye them bookes especially in the vulgar tounge And iudge ye whether he had so little discretion to moâ—e al therevnto which verie few could bring to passe the raritie and pryce of the written bookes being considered Nowe as concerning the other lie that wiues at home with theyr husbandes or children with theyr parentes should reason betwixt themselues of diuine maters either I vnderstand not your englishe or els ye abuse S. Chrysostom most shamefully For if ye meane that al that reasoniÌ„g which you imagin signifieth no more but that the father shuld instruct his sonne aÌ„d the wife geue eare to her husbandes good counsel then surely you must pardoÌ„ me I neuer vnderstood this much before that reasoning of diuine maters should haue so litle question in it But if reasoning betwixt parties doth importe an argueing to aÌ„d fro with obiections solutions replies resolutions diuises suppositioÌ„s c. And if reasoning of diuine maters doth signifie the questioÌ„ proponed not to be of so smal
the most Gorgeouse harlot BabiloÌ„ So that the beutiful harlot must not be vnderstanded now of Niniue peculiarly as S. Hierome applieth it but of the whore of Babilon Which by the interpretation of the whorish heretikes is the See of Rome Iudge now whether this be to interpret S. Hierom or to make a tale of their owne by the gifte of theyr lieing Sprite FroÌ„ theÌ„ce sayth S. CypriaÌ„ spring schismes sects Apolog. because meÌ„ seke not yâ— head haue not theyr course to the Fountaine of the Scriptures and keepe not yâ— rules geauen by the heauenly teacher Where hath S. Cyprian these words Or where speaketh he of the fountaines of the Scripture Confut. .347 Or the Original of truthe Of seeking to an head Of the doctrine of the Heauenly teacher He speaketh in the treatise De simplicitate Praelatorum or vnitate Ecclesiae and he bringeth al those three pointes to this end that Christe made Peter the head of his Church But of those fountaines of Scriptures we caÌ„ not tel wheâ— he speaketh and we knowe you so wel by this tyme that we can not beleue you except ye shew it The Euangelistes and the Apostles Prophetes sayinges shew vs sufficiently Apolog. what opinion we ought to haue of the will of God This is a true sayinge Confut. .313 yet Theodorete speaketh not of the wil of God generally but lib. 1. ca. 7 â–ª 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the Godhead For the controuersie was then betwene the Catholiks and Arrians about the Consubstantialitie of God the Sonne with his Father And therefore interprete him better or vse not his Authoritie The 5. Chapiter declaring how Councels are belyed and abused in the Apologie of the Church of England According to the iudgment of the Nicen Councel Apolog. we say that the Bishop of Rome hath no more iurisdiction ouer the Church of God than the rest of the Patriarkes of Alexandria or Antiochia haue The Canon is Conf. 50. Let the auncient custome continue in force whiche he is it Egypt Libya and PeÌ„tapoli that the bishope of AlexaÌ„dâ—ia haue power ouer them all for asmuch as the Bishope oâ— Rome hath thus vsed In these words for asmuch as the Bishoppe of Rome hath thus vsed appeareth manifestlie the prerogatiue of the Bishoppe of Rome as from whose maner and custome they take an example of theyr doeinges For if it should be so vnderstanded that because the Bishoppe of Rome hath power ouer the couÌ„trie about him therefore the Bishope of Alexandria and not the Bishope of Antiochia should â—ule Egypt Libya and Pentapoly that hangeth no better togeather than if you should say let the Bishop of Canterbury be Archbishop of Yorkeshire or Ireland because the Bishoppe of Rome hath power ouer the Countreies about him And allthoughe this Argument maie seeme to conclude à Simili thus as the Bishoppe of Rome ruleth his Countrie so let euerie Metropolitane in like maner beare rule ouer his owne Countrie yet to appointe by name either Eygpte to the Bishope of Alexandria or Ireland to the Bishop of Canterbury that must depeÌ„d of some other cause and not of this that the Bishop of Rome hath iurisdictioÌ„ in Italy Now consider the mater as the truth is that the Bishoppe of Rome hath supreme authoritie emong al Bishopes and then it foloweth by good reason that the Bishop of Alexandria shall rule Egypt because the Bishop of Rome hath so vsed That is because it is so apointed and so receiued at Rome that Aegypte Libya and PeÌ„tapolis should perteine to the Bishoppe of Alexandria therefore let that order continue And this is the meaning of the Nicene Councell and this maketh for the Popes Supremacy and this proueth you to belye the Nicene CouÌ„cel which hath not at al any such wordes as you mention that he hath no more Iurisdiction ouer the Churche than the rest of the Patriarches The Councel of Carthage Apolog. did circumspectely prouide that no Bishoppe shoulde be called either the highe Bishope or Chiefe Priest The Councell doth not say No Bishope but Conf. 53. A Bishop of a first See shal not be called Chiefe of Priestes or highest Priest For whereas there be other priestes besides in the world which are not subiect vnto his see reason it is that his title extend it selfe to no more than those that are vnder his Iurisdiction Also this Canon was for the Bishopes of the prouinces of Aphrica And last of all it extendeth it selfe only to the first sees which are many according to the numbre of Countries and not to the Apostolike See and chiefe aboue all which is but one The Councel of Nice Apolog. as is alleaged by some in greeke plainly forbiddeth vs to be basely affectiouated or bent toward the Bread and Wine whiche are sette before vs. This disproueth nothinge at all the real presence of Christ in the SacrameÌ„t Conf. 108 especiallie if you would haue added that whiche foloweth in the verie selfe same sentence and not haue clipped so worthie a Councell For it foloweth thus But lyfting vp our minde lette vs by faithe vnderstand on that holy table to be laied the laÌ„be of God that taketh away the synnes of the world which is sacrificed of Priestes vnbloudelie and receiuing his preciouse body and bloud verely let vs beleue these to be the pleadges of our resurrection Therefore the Councel in forbidding vs to be baselie affected intended not to make vs beleue that Christ is in heauen onlie and not also vpon the Aultar The old Councell at Rome decreed Apolog. that no man should come to the seruice saied by a Priest well knowen to keepe a Conucbyne We find no such Canon in the old Romaine Councels But Nicolaus and Alexander Popes haue willed that none should heare the Masse of that Priest whom he knoweth vndoutedly to kepe â— Concubine whereby ye may vnderstand the masse alowed and the lustes of the Clergie punished and your mistaking of the Councell corrected The olde councell Gangrense Apolog. commaundeth that none should make suche difference betwene an vnmaried Priest a maried Priest as he ought to thinke the one more holy than the other for single life sake The wordes be these Confut. 240. If anie make a difference of a Priest who hath ben maried as thoughe when he sacrificeth a man might not communicate with his oblation accursed be he The Councell therefore speaketh of suche as were first maried and afterwardes toke Priesthode vppon them and not contrarywise of such as were first of all pristes and then afterwards did fall to mariage In which poynte the obiection of Catholikes against you consisteth The Councell at Carthage coÌ„maunded Apolog. nothing to be reade in Christes coÌ„gregatioÌ„ but the Canonical Sciptures Why reade you then Homelies of your owne making Conf. 24â— But to the matter The wordes of the councel are these It hath seemed good vnto vs that
your lying and slandering and heare Masse with a good wil and deuotioÌ„ and pray to Saints and pray for the soules departed and obey the B. of Romes authority â–ª Which Bishop at this present is a man so diuine and excellent as appeareth most euidently by his expelling of deuils out of possessed bodies by expelling the Courtesans out of the City by correcting al disorders in the Court of Rome by ê“uidiÌ„g for those partes of Christendome which either haue no Bishops and then he seÌ„deth them some as of late he did into the Indians or had Bishops and enioyed them not in which case he hath sent them home to their Countries that if in deed ye had the miÌ„d to returne to the Catholike Church ye might neuer better doe it than now when the heade therof is so woÌ„derful for his holines fortitude of mind vprightnes and Charitie But ye haue a mad fansie to belye your selues aÌ„d say that ye had no cause to depart from vs if enormities of life wold haue pleased you whereas in deede as loÌ„g as the masse aÌ„d the Pope be regarded you cannot abide our coÌ„panie though the maners of the Catholikes were neuer so well amended Now if ye dare be bolde with your selues and say that ye be so persuaded as ye be not take hede yet what ye report of others and think not it is enough to say it and neuer to proue it that such enormities are with vs in theyr chiefe pride and prince Paule the fourth not many monethes sence Apolog. had at Rome in prison certain Augustine friers many Bishops a greate nuÌ„bre of other deuout mâ—n for religions sake he racked them and tormeÌ„ted them The truth is Con. 171 he caused a Publike Edict to be made charging all such as were gone out of their religion and habite to returne againe to their house and Order This coÌ„maundement preuailed with many which coÌ„sidering their dissolute liues came willingly vnder obedience and order Others which passed not for the Popes commaundement or their former vowe being apprehended were put in prison that vexation might geue them vnderstanding and that disobedience shoulde not escape vnpunished euen in their bodyes As for racking and tormenting them that is one and that many Bishops were so handled that is an other or that they suffred for religioÌ„s sake and not for their owne disobedience that is a third fowle lye Although we be not the men we ought and professe to be Apolog. yet whosoeuer we be compare vs with these men and euen our owne life and innocencie will sone proue vs true and condemne their malicious surmises Concerning your liues Con. 127 the greate adoe which yow make for wiues proueth what gift of continencie is emong yow And they being in deede no wiues but concubines either one synne defended and mainteined draweth not an other with it which is iâ—possible either els one maie iustly collecte and gather that in the other maters besides incontinency ye be not innocent I reporte me also to your rayling vpon the Pope whom ye knowe not Your belying of honest men which yet liue Your slaundring of whole orders and companies either vpoÌ„ heare-say only or for the peculiar faults of some fewe persons c. Call ye this innocency Let the world iudge where more disordre of life is emong Catholikes or heretikes We haue ouerthroweÌ„ no kingdom Apolog. we haue decayed no mans power or ryght we haue disordered no common welth Confut. 173. The hundred thousand bandes of Germanie which by tumult and vprore armed themselues against the nobility and died al in it be witnesse against you The Duke of Saxony and Lant graue of Hesse he witnesses against you because they stoode in field against Charles the v. whom ye can not denie to haue bene theyr true Soueraigne and Emperour The Sacramentarie Zuitzers of Berna who robbed the Duke of Sauoie of his townes and CouÌ„tryes from the farder side of the Lake of Geneua vnto the Alpes they shal be brought against you Geneua it selfe which is neither in the power of the Duke of Sauoie nor vnder theyr lawefull Archebishoppe but hath taken all iurisdictions from them into her owne handes maie proue somewhat against you The Hugonotes of Fraunce your brothers and others in Scotland which haue and doe yet continue in theyr rebellious stomakes and enterprises shal testifye that some mans ryghte is decayed by you But if you thinke all these witnesses to be farre of and that they can not be well examined aske I praie you and I thinke ye shall finde that the Brothers of Englande haue furthered the cause of the Hugonotes of France and Knokes men in Scotland And to be shorte goe into your owne bosomes and consider what compassion ye haue ouer the afflicted congregation of the lowe couÌ„tries where theyr coÌ„spiracies and enterprises are so clearlie betraied and broken Or consider what ioye ye haue had in it when not only against lawful Authoritie but also common honestie and order they spoiled Monasteries expelled the Religious threwe doune Churches and plaied other suche parts as sprites of hel doe sometymes in greate tempestes The B. of Rome to fede his ambitioÌ„ greedines of rule Apolog. hath pulled in peeces the Empire of Rome and vexed and rente whole Christendome a sunder Merciful God Con. 17â— what meane ye Are ye offeÌ„ded that the empire was placed in the Weast to the defence of ChristeÌ„dom And the suppressiÌ„g of the LoÌ„bards power which theÌ„ was greuoê° to Italy doth that of fend you Charles the greate so blessed and valiant a Prince shal his actes not onlie be called nowe into question but vtterly be condemned through you If you cal this a pulling of the state in peeces that an Emperour was set vp in the Weast because the Emperour of the East was both vnable and vnready to helpe the Weast church theÌ„ is this present Emperour with al his predecâ—ssours gilty of vniust possessioÌ„ aÌ„d accessory to the Popes ambition as you terme it For if at the beginning the title was not good he can not with safe conscience abide in it And if that were pulling the Empire in peeces you perchaunce wil set it together againe and helpe to put doune the Emperour now liuing with al that state that ye maie make al ful and perfite as it was vnder one Emperour ouer the whole Againe he did not feede his ambition being as great in authoritie before as after Neither pulled he it in peeces but where ther was no whole aÌ„d good peece left there he placed a perfite state of gouernement And it lacked so much that al Christendome was rent a sondre by it that except by that meanes prouision had ben made for defence of the Church the Lombardes euen at those daies and the Turke sense that tyme had spoiled and rent al ChrisÌ„tendome He put Chilpericus the French king being no cuil prince Apolog. beside his realme only
by the name Apolog. of the highest Prelate the vniuersall Bishoppe or the head of the Churche S. Hierome ad Damasum Con. 247 The Councel of ChalcedoÌ„ â–ª and Victor de persequutione Vandalica these haue geauen the for sayd titles vnto the Bishoop of Rome Which of them euer sayd that both the swordes were committed to you Apolog. S. Bernard saiteth it lib. 4. de consideratione ad Eugenium Con. 247 Whiche of them euer sayed that you haue an Authority to cal Councels Apolog. There folowe a broune dosen moe of such which of them Con. 248 Which either nede no aunswer because the Catholik Church hath no suche Articles as you aske question of Or because it is not bound to answer euerie gentleman controllers busie questions although it be able either by expresse Authoritie or els by necessarie consequence to declare good and sufficieÌ„t cause and reason for euery thing that it aloweth But touching this present question Socrates Hist. Tripart lib. 4. ca. 9. doth plainely testifie against you What one error haue they amended From what kind of Idolatry haue they reclaimed the people Apolog. Here is a suspicioÌ„ reised of more thaÌ„ one error Con. 291. aÌ„d of more thaÌ„ one kind of Idolatry to be in the church and ther is no ê“batioÌ„ annexed to ê“ue that which is sayd But herein your bliÌ„dnes aÌ„d ignoraÌ„ce doth vtter it self that ye know not what is truth aÌ„d right worshippiÌ„g of God which obiect errors aÌ„d Idolatry to th'church of God in which church the techer of truth th' holy Ghost Ioan. 14â— is alwaies presideÌ„t and shal be vnto the worlds end Again if you coÌ„sider what hath ben don of late in general couÌ„cels aÌ„d what is don daily both by pÌ„ching aÌ„d writing against euil life and heresy you can not iustly find fault with the heades of the Churche as though they had no regard what the people did beleue and folowe Then further I say if you willo biect ignorance vnto the Catholykes that they knowe not what is true Religion then doth it remaine that you tel your owne mindes and answer theyr Confutations and Replies Before which tyme to insulte vpon them and to crowe out a lowde from what kinde of Idolatrie haue they reclaimed the people is to triumphe before the victorie and to goe merelie awaie with the sentence whiles the mater is a hearing yet in the consistorie But if you obiecte this crime to the Catholikes that they knowe wel inough what Idolatrie is and see the kindes of it and yet reclaime the people from no kind thereof this trulie is so heighnous and so vile a fault that ye shoulde haue euidentlie proued it before ye had so artificiallie concluded it For a plaine answere to whiche fowle suspition let any reasonable maÌ„ be iudge whether it be lykelie and possible that they which with great paines and daunger of bodie haue prouided verie Idolatours in deede to be conuerted vnto our faith would wittingly suffer an Idolatry to be at home before theyr eies aÌ„d yet not take a litle paine to opeÌ„ theyr mouth but once against it The FraÌ„ciscans and they of the societie of Ihesu haue and dâ—e take exceding greate paines about the barbarous people in the East and Weast India and with hazard of theyr temporal lyfe they venter to bring the Infidels to the knowledge of the life euerlasting Therefore surely it is bysides al reason and likelyhod that of so manie of the same order and profession as liue here in Europe emong vs no one should be fouÌ„d so honest so hardy or so faithful as to reclaime the people from theyr Idolatrie if anie were in them at all Why doe they so vncourteously or with such spite Apolog. leaue Princes out as though they were not either Christen meÌ„ or els could not iudge will not haue theÌ„ made acquainted with the cause of Christian Religion nor vnderstand the State of theyr owne Churches And why doe you so openly and so licentiously râ—yse a fowle suspition Con. 297 against the Cleargie where no cause is The teÌ„poral princes are solemly warned before of the general councel when soâ—uer it is to be kept Theyr Legats haue honorable and meete places for them in the Couâ—cel house that they may not be ignorant of that which is done in debating and examining the cause of religioÌ„ They be humbly and hartly thanked for theyr helpes and assistance and presence made in the cause of the Churche They be sent home with peace And say you that princes are so lefte out as though they were no Christen men whose Embassadours you maie vnderstand to be interteyned and vsed so honourably What ys the Pope Apolog. I praie you at this daye other than A Monarche Or A Prince Or what be the Cardinals who must be none other nowe but princes and Kinges Sonnes We neuer hearde anie wyse man call Con. 299 the Pope A Monarche But a Prince he is in deede either as the worde Prince maie signifie the Chiefe in all Priestelie function either as it signifieth a man so indued with Temporalties that he maie worthely be a Kinges felow But saie you what other is he than a Monarche or a Prince As who shoulde thinke that he sate imperiallie vnder his clothe of Estate and hearde Embassadours out of all quarters of the world and gaue kingdomes or toke them awaie at his pleasure and after such maters of weight dispatched then that he went to hunting hauking plaieing dauÌ„sing feasting c. as worldely Princes doe For such a thing do the coÌ„moÌ„ people imagine a Monarche or prince to be one that ruleth al and liueth in al pleasure That you therfore may be corrected of your lie aÌ„d the simple Reader of his error I say that the Pope is no Monarche at al. And I confesse boldly that he is a Prince by reason of the Temporall and greate IurisdictioÌ„ which he hath ouer S. Peters patrimonies but as Pius the fifthe that now liueth did answer agreably to his holines and wisdom Licet Princeps sum antiquius tamen Pastoris quà m principis nomen agnosco so to say the like in English I geue you to vnderstand that although the Pope be a prince yet he acknowledgeth and taketh the office of a Pastor to be the more former and principal with him than the Office of a Prince By this office then of a pastour he gouerneth and fâ—deth his flocke he sendeth non residents home to theyr cure he apointeth out Preachers and Bishopes for the new found lands he calleth CouÌ„cels endeth CouÌ„cels wheÌ„ it shal please him he goeth in visitatioÌ„ as this last yere he did through althe parish churches of Rome he excommunicateth such as wil not repent as he doth Courtesanes expelling them bodyly also out of the Citie he succoureth such as wil conuerte for which purpose his predecessor Pius the fourth of blessed memorie built a peculiar Cloister
put case these Abbates and Bishops haue no knowledge Apolog. What if they vnderstaÌ„d nothing what religion is nor howe we ought to thinke of God I put case the pronouncing and ministring of the lawe be decayed in Priestes and good counsell faile in the Elders as the Prophete Micheas saieth the nyght to be vnto them in stede of a vision and the darkenesse in stede of propheÌ„siyng Or as Esaias saieth what if all the watchmen of the Citie are become blinde What if yâ— salt haue lost his propre streÌ„gth and sauerines And as Christ sayeth be good for no vse scant worth the casting on the dunghill The lesse knowledge you would make the bishops and Abbats to haue Con. 280. the more miracle it wil be that without knowledge they haue such learning as their bookes and preachings and doinges doe testifie Take for an example the Catholike Bishops of England Is there among them all any one against whom you may come with your textes of Micheas Esaias or Christ our Sauiour Yet you put the case they haue no knowledge I aunswere that your case is a verie hard one But yet to remedie somewhat this matter if our Bisshops should be so vnlearned and ignorant I thinke it were better for the common wealth to set them to Schole than to put them in prison Or if they be nothing mete for lerniÌ„g to set them rather at libertie being suche as can hurte the procedinges nothing for lacke of good life and knowledge than to kepe them in so preciselie and politikely as though euerie worde that they should speake were able to coÌ„found an heretik Howe then if the Pope haue seene none of these thinges Apolog. and haue neuer reade either the Scriptures or the old Fathers or yet his owne Councels I aunswer â–ª but first Con. 284 I will also put a case What if there were no shame in a man What if there were no regarde of the sight of God What if in all thinges he should seeke for this onlie howe to fill the peoples eares and to make them gather of an exceading greate word somewhat at the least Wâ—â—ld there be anie discretion or staie in suche a one of putting cases of deniyng moste manifeste truthes of slaundering worthie persons and goeyng against sense and reason So is it with the Authours of the Apologie For how theÌ„ say they if the Pope haue neuer readen either the scriptures or the old fathers or yet his owne CouÌ„cels How then Are ye not ashamed to put such a case as neither euer yet happened nor euer is like to come to passe by any reason Shew the occasion of this your suspition and feare Declare your selfe to be of greater experience and consideration than those are which quake for feare where no cause is Name anie one Pope that hath not bene so learned that you might welthink him to haue readen the Scriptures Ye can name none at al. You put only a case with how then if he hath neuer readen the Scriptures And I aunswer that if it be so it is a great miracle And that except you bring furth some certificate of it it is not to be beleued But neither you meant it I suppose to affirme it only ye thought it enoughe to speake much as thoughe you could bring furth somwhat And to leaue it to your Reader to suspect somwhat although you proued nothing I confesse vnto you I can not tel what to saye to such What thens and What yfs But if you haue any arte in iudging of them I pray you if the skye should fal were not many larkes like to be taken And if such kindes of What yfs as you haue put might be folowed in other examples were not manie fooles like to be made and preferred by it and many Wyll Sommers would they not be found in England which would quickly saie what if all the Councell be vnlearned And what if poore knaues haue as great a gift of wisedome and knowledge as the Noble and Learned of the world Thus far concerning this matter The 11. Chapiter confuting a blasphemous Lye BY manie smal practises at length an habite is goten and he that refrayneth not his tongue and thought in the lesse shal make it so fond and slipperie that it will offende in the greater And the Apologie of England whyles it toke not good heede inough to speake trulie of men it is come to that blind audacitie that it belieth God him selfe For this cause therefore that the Authours thereof maie the better consider of theyr rashnes and the Indifferent Reader may the more plainelie see that he muste not truste euerie Sprite I place this lie by it selfe as a singular one without felowes and without coÌ„parison and I call it as it deserueth a Blasphemous lye For thus they saie in defence of theyr discession from the Catholike Church Though we haue departed from that Church whiche these men cal Catholike Apolog. by that meanes get vs enuy amongst them that want skyl to iudge yet thys is inough for vs it ought to be inough for euerie wyse and good man and one that maketh accompt of euerlasting life that we haue gone from that Churche which had power to erre which Christ who can not erre told so long before it should erre Where find ye this in anie Ghospel Con. 322 Or why tel ye not your Reader of it that he also might perceaue it Or why directe ye him not to the place at the leaste where he might seeke it Can it be any other than wicked impudencie to make Christ saie that which he neuer saied If Christ hath foreâ—old it in deede that our Churche shoulde erre shewe vs that and there is nothing to be replied Fathers Councels Stories Apologies Replies Reioynders al other labours maie be spared onelie that place were to be shewed where Christ hath so plainly coÌ„founded vs. For this you maie be sure if ye can proue that our Church maie erre you shal perswade al the sort of vs to forsake it and get vs to an other of whiche we maie be sure it can not erre But forasmuch as ye can bring furthe no such word of Christ why make ye such a wretched crake as though ye were departed from a church that may erre to a better congregation or as though Christ should beare witnes vnto the goodnes of your doeynges by his foretelling that our Churche should erre Here ye are to be pressed aÌ„d here should ye be enforced to aunswer For by this place it will quickely be seen who hath woÌ„ne or who hath lost For if it were S. Ambrose or S. Augustin that did affirme anie thing the Catholike would so farre accepte it as he should see other Fathers to agree to it and the heretike woulde so litle make of it that if all the fathers bysides did saie with them he woulde not be bound to folow theyr authority because they al were meÌ„ But if Christ
ready to diminsh the numbre of Ceremonies that the greatest papist in the world would not aske more fauor in the questioÌ„ aÌ„d cause of theÌ„ First if the Scripture doth alow anie order or fashioÌ„ it is not vaine If the whole Church hath generally receiued ani it is not vaine If it be but a particular Ceremony of one couÌ„trie and be not agaiÌ„st the faith or good maners it is not vaine Yea if anie thing be in it which helpeth to amendement of life it is not vaine By so many waies and for so many causes a ceremony maie wel continue as ye shal finde in that verie epistle of S. Augustin Epi. 119. c. 18. 19. And had you the face so to alleage this holy Doctours complaining of ceremonies as though he would haue as few as you What Sacrament haue you about which ye doe occupie oile What thinke you of the fast of lent What of Alleluia betwixt Easter and Witsontide What vse haue you of any Octaues Cap. 7. 15. 18. Yet of these Ceremonies he maketh mentioÌ„ in the foresaied Epistle and reckoneth that they are to be vsed and regarded Gregory c. if the Church saieth he shall depend vppon one man Apolog. it will at once fal doune to the ground Ye belie him shamfully he hath no such words at al. Conf. 203 Yet the protestaÌ„t may think this impossible that you should haue no more regarde of your honestye Let him seeke then if he be learned and iudge by his owne senses whether any such proposition is ther to be found But is there not a like vnto it Ye as so like as Rome is to Constantinople or Gregorie S. Peters successour to Nestorius of Constantinople an heretike For if a man should seeke for his life to find in that epistle but some resemblance of that which the Apology reporteth he findeth no more but this which I shal declare for th'vnlerned sake Iohn Bishope of Constantinople affected the title of Vniuersal Bishope S. Gregorie then Pope of Rome coÌ„plaineth thereof to Mauritius the Emperour declaring good causes aÌ„d reasons why such presumptioÌ„ should not be suffred Emong other he maketh this argument Lib. 4. epist. 3â— Surely we haue knoweÌ„ manie Prelats of the Church of CoÌ„staÌ„tinople to haue falleÌ„ into the goulfe of heresie and to haue ben not only heretiks but archeheretikes also Nowe for example he nameth Nestorius and Macedonius then bringeth he in therevpon this conclusion If therefore in that church vndoubtedly of Constantinople anie pul vnto himself that name of Vniuersal Bishope ergo which hath ben the iudgement of all good men the whole church which God forbid falleth froÌ„ her state wheÌ„ he falleth which is called Vniuersall An excellent argument vndoubtedly For if the only or Vniuersall Bishope should be at CoÌ„staÌ„tinople that see hauing no priuilege of coÌ„tinuing stil in the right faith as appereth by the archeheretikes which sate ther and al the world being bound to obey the Vniuersal Bishope this one absurditie grauÌ„ted a thousand would folow and that one Bishoppe erring all the whole Church should go a straie Loe this is al that may seme to geue any occasioÌ„ of reporting that which the Apologie hath attributed to S. Gregorie And wher find we here that if the church depeÌ„d vpon one maÌ„ â–ª it must at once fal doune to the ground Wil they yet defend theyr lying Or dare they yet stil abuse the old fathers â—s the Church aÌ„d that Church al one in coÌ„cluding Is depeÌ„ding vpon one man and that man al a like The successor of S. Peter and Bishop in that chaire in which neuer yet was fouÌ„d any archeheretike to set furth naughty doctrin is he al one with a Bishope of ConstaÌ„tinople â–ª which neither succedeth any Apostle and hath bene a defender of heresies let vs see now therfore whether you wil coÌ„fesse your errour in mistaking S. Gregorie Or mainteine your impudencie in misusing of him The bishâ—ps sayth Bernard who now haue yâ— charge of Gods church Apolog. ar not teachers but deceauers they are not feders but begilers thei are not prelats but pilates These words spake Bernard of yâ— B. who nameth him self the highest Bishop of al of yâ— other Bishops likwise which then had the place of gouernement How then Confut. Did S. Bernard forsake al papistrie and abandon the Pope because of those faâ—ltes which he fouÌ„d If he did why taried he in his moÌ„kes cote vnto his death If he did not what vnwise meÌ„ be you to for sake the Church for euil maners sake But coÌ„sider further WhoÌ„ called he deceauers â–ª begâ—â—ers pilats Al the whole order of Bishopes and gouernoures of the Church froÌ„ the Pope dounward Or spake he of some certain only If he noted but some certain aÌ„d â—heÌ„ worthely those other some which were not infected might wel preserue the state of the Church in truth of maners and doctrine that ye need not to feare an vtter destruction 〈◊〉 it and so through wretched foly depart out of it If he spake generally of al then wil I coÌ„fesse that ye are not so much to be blamed for your departing from that Church nor for anie your applieyng of S. Bernardes Authorie to that purpose But because I am sure this is false therefore I charge you and blame you How proue I this I proue it by those very bookes in which as you saie the foresaid wordes against the Pope and Bishopes are For concerning Eugenius him selfe he saieth in the third boke after much complaint or reproufe made of the euil maners of the Court of Rome Haec ad te Berna de CoÌ„s lib â–ª 3 noÌ„ de te scribo I writ this vnto thee not of thee And immediatly he declareth by example how Eugenius refused bagges of monie which came out of Germany and condemned a greate riche bisshop by likelyhode notwithstaÌ„ding his mony And how he gaue of his own vnto an other poore bisshop to geue vnto the officers in the Court least the bisshop should seeme niggish and vncourteous if he should haue nothing rewarded them Now Doth it greaue thee to heare this And I ê™ S. Bernard doe tell it so muche the more gladly by how much thou hearest it the more greauously The Pope theâ— him selfe was none of those deceauers begilers or pilates whom you mention Furth then were al the Cardinalles and Bishops deceiuers c. No neither al they as you may reade it proued in the fourth boke of that worke by the exaÌ„ples of two great Legats The one was Cardinal Martine Cardinal Martin which being sent legate into Dacia a countrie ful of gold and siluer returned yet so poore that for lacke of mony and horses he coulde scarse reach vnto Florence The Bishope of which place gaue him an horse without mention making of any mater to be done for it Yet the legat aÌ„d Cardinal Martin was 〈◊〉 soner at Rome but the bishop of Florence