non residencie excommunication by Chancelors officials by the scriptuers If they cannot what are they els but mens traditions And it is acknowledged Perpet gov p. 320. that this last is challenged not by Gods law but by mans How say our brethren then is it not an humane tradition this hiding of the disease tendeth not to healing but to Lib. de dile c. 5. further hurt Nolens se esse reum addit ad reatum excusando ignorat non se poenam removere sed veniam He that will not be guilty increaseth his guilt and by excusing himselfe procureth 〈◊〉 pardon but punishment 5. Cens Are we the men that are addicted to our own quiet credit and commodity Ans to petit p. 27. Answ VVho seek their quiet in the vvorld more then idle ministers that either do not or cannot preach vvho their credit more then they that seeke to haue preheminence aboue their brethren vvho their profit more then they that heape living to living benefice to benefice dignity to dignity Are not they the men that take upon them to bee proctors and patrons for all these VVee charge them not to put out their money to usurie their multiplicity of livings will make them rich enough without it their labours by preaching and writing against the common adversaie we dispraise not but wish the one were more and the other in many to better edifying Neither are their brethren the Petitioners inferior in any of these travels But this wee dislike that our bretheren should thinke by their labours to colour and countenance these corruptions This were as Hierome saith Rem medecinae vulnus Ad Demetr facere remedium animae venenum To make a wound with a medecine and turne the remedie of the soule into a maladie 6. Cens It is obiected That the desire of the Petitioners doth not suit with the state of a monarchy whereunto our answer briefly is this First to enforce this conclusion the confuters Vntruth diverse produce false and slanderous premises as that we would haue the king confined within the limits of some particular parish that they giue vnto the presbyters power to Answ to pet p. 29. censure euioyne penance excommunicate the king and where there is cause to proceed against him as a tyrant that they denie appeales to the prince would draw all causes to be Ecclesiasticall that they allow the magistrate Non potestatem iuris sed facti 1. The Petitioners utterly renounce all these uncharitable imputations they are further off from making all causes Ecclesiasticall then the Bishops and their officers for they think that actions matrimoniall decimarie testamentary de jure belong to the deciding of the civill Magistrate which now de facto are appropriated to the Ecclesiastical courts 2. Not presbyters but Bishops haue taken upon them to censure and excommunicate Kings as Odo suspended King Edwine the Bishop of London Elie VVinchester Hereford Fox p. 151. Fox p. 251. interdicted K. Iohn and the whole Realme they were the Bishops not presbyters that iutted with and iostled their Kings Anselme opposed himselfe against William Rufus Becket against K. Henry the 2. Ste. Langhton against K. Iohn Rob. Winchelsey against Edward the 1. Thomas Arundel against Rich. the 2. And few Archbishops we finde saith M. Eox with whom kings haue not bad some quarrels or Fox 395. other But as for the Petitioners concerning the censuring of Kings we assent unto their determination that thus write Si quis vetus novum Testamentum gestaque reuolverit patenter inveniet quod aut minime aut difficulter possint reges imperatores excommunicari admoneri possunt increpari argui a discretis viris c. If a man turn over the old new Testamēt Epist. Leodiens Eccles Cont. Pasch he shall apparantly said that none at all or very hardly Kings and Emperours can bee excommunicate they may be admonished rebuked by discreet men c. And they add further Hildebrandus papa primus levavit sacerdotalem lanceam contra diadema regum The Pope a Bishop not the presbyters did first lift up the Priestly launce against the Kingly crown If in some places some heady men haue presumed without warrant it ought not to preiudice neither us nor our cause But as Ambrose saith the example of such Non excusationi obtenditur sed cautioni proponitur should not be pretended to imitate but propounded to take heed Secondly would our brethren haue the The Ecclesiasticall state in earth not Monarchical state of the Church Monarchicall by this colour to make the Ecclesiasticall and Civill state suteable when there was but one Emperour ambitious policie brought in one supreame Bishop the Pope that tooke upon him to be chiefe over all Bishops There is great difference between the Church and the Kingdom their regiment cannot be alike Our Saviour himselfe sheweth a difference The Luc. 22. 23. Kings of the Gentiles reigne over them c. but yee shall not be so Christ would haue no Monarks and sole commanders in his Church as the Kings were among the Gentiles Do not our learned writers maintaine against Bellarmine that the policie of the Church Quam D. Sutcliffe l. 1. de pont Rom. c. 5. proxime accedere c. doth come most neere to an Aristocraticall estate not a Monarchicall And in this manner was the Church governed at the beginning as Hierome witnesseth communi presbyterorum consilio by the common In Tit. 1. counsell of presbyters Thirdly yet shall it appeare that the regiment and Discipline of the Church which the Petitioners moue is much more suteable to the state of a Monarchie then the Episcopall Hierarchie 1. VVee acknowledge no other Monarch both in Civill and Ecclesiasticall causes but the kings Maiesty there need not to be any other Prince or chiefe of the Bishops but the King 2. the civill state though it be Monarchicall in the head yet it is not throughout in the members The King first hath his honorable state of Councellors all of equall authority to that may answer for Ecclesiasticall matters a Synode of Bishops then in every shire there are worship full knights and Squires in commission for the peace were it not a confused The presbyter of Pastors proued suteable to the state estate that there should bee but one Iustice in a shire as now there is but one Chancellor or Archdeacon How much more suteable were it if every Deanery and division had their assembly and reverent learned Pastors for the administration of discipline then one ignorant Civilian or some other ordinary substituted person VVee appeale now to all religious politike statesmen whether this form of Ecclesiasticall government were not much more fitting to the Commonwealth then that which now is used VVherefore the Confuters are too blame to charge the Petitioners and their requests as not suteable to the state VVe say with Ambrose Didicimus omnes fidem proprio regi
double profession 2. But seing these causes as matrimoniall testamentarie decimarie are now annexed to the Episcopall iurisdiction such matters as they call of instance it is fit they bee referred to the Civilians In such cases let them not onely be advisers but iudges But as for matters of office as they are called which are meerly Ecclesiasticall wee suppose that Ministers are better able to iudge then Civilians and heerein it is not fit they should be assistants to advise much lesse iudges to determine let them containe themselues within their owne element 2. VVhereas wee are referred to the book of the perpetuall governement of the pag. 320. Church let it bee noted that there it is confessed that Iudges of the Civill law take not upon them the power of the keyes committed to the Apostles their suspensions excommunications c. they claim not by Gods law but by mans VVherefore seing it is confessed that this manner of Excommunication by lay men is humane the Petitioners request is reasonable that this abuse be reformed and such usurpers upon the keyes of the Church restrained Fourthly it is obiected If the discipline were once a foote wee should then heare tell of Ans p. 22. Lay Elders c. Answ 1. The Petitioners say nothing of Lay Elders in their Petition but that there haue been such Lay Elders in the Church which haue intermedled in the Ecclesiasticall affaires it cannot bee denied As Reverend D. Fulke confesseth Fulke ans to the Rhem. 1. Tim. ◠sect 13. out of S. Ambrose thus writing or else hee meaneth of those Elders that Saint Ambrose speaketh of upon the first verse of this chapter that were appointed onely for government not for teaching 2. Is not the like practised in the high commission for causes Ecclesiasticall wherein diverse Reverend persons of the civil state are Commissioners And let not our brethren bee so hot against Lay Elders seeing I hope they will not deny but that they may haue voices in Sinods And what greater inconvenience is it for lay men to bee assistants in Ecclesiasticall affaires then for Clergie Of lay Elders men to interpose themselues in Civill and why might not as well Civill persons if it so pleased the state be of the Convocation house as Ecclesiasticall of the parliament as it was practised in K. Henry the 8. his Fox p. 1182 raigne when that worthy Lord Crumwell was made vicegerent in matters Ecclesiasticall and was himselfe present in the assemblies and at the disputations of the Bishops 3. Yet are wee far from making him a Clergie man as the Confuters a little before confessed though they haue soone forgot themselues of Civilians in these words A chancellour or a commissary is not a lay man in this case And yet there is a great differēce between these lay Elders which are but assistants in the presbytery with others theirs who are sole agents and principals in Ecclesiasticall Courts And therefore we may retort the Confuters saying upon their own heads that they reproue others for speaking for Lay Elders and allow the same themselues But there is a principle in the Law Quod semel Reg. iuris 21. placuit iterum displicere non potest That with once did please cannot againe displease And Hierome could haue told them perdit Hieron Ocean authoritatē dicendi cujus sermo opere destruitur He looseth the authority of teaching that overthroweth his words by his works Of Excommunication for trifles THE excuse is that men are not excommunicated for trifles but for their contempt Ans p. 23. Answ Indeed according to our Saviour Christs rule hee that heareth not the Church Mat. 18. 18 must bee held as an heathen and publicane But it is not yet proved that the officiall and his Register make the Church neither shall our brethren bee ever able to shew it 2. It is true that the letters of Excommunication presuppose a contumacy and contempt preceding But he is not contumacious which at the first monition appeareth not upon every cause pretended as it may appeare by these reasons taken out of the Canons 1. First no man should bee excommunicate before the offence bee proved against him nemo Episcopus aliquem excommunicet priusquam causa probetur caus 2. qu. 1. c. 11. But his contumacy is not proued who vpon the first citation appeareth not for he may be ignorant of it or otherwise necessarily letted Ergo such an one is not to bee excommunicate 2. Such onely are to bee excommunicated as are otherwise incorrigible as by Christs rule he must be taken as an heathen and publican that refuseth to heare the adomonition of one of two lastly of the Church Anathema non debet imponi nisi illi qui aliter non potuerit corrigi Anathema ought not to bee imposed but vpon him that can not otherwise bee amended Concil Meldens c. 56. Excommunicatio non infligenda est nisi his qui aliter corrigi noluerint Excōmunication must be inflicted upon such as cannot otherwise bee corrected Coloniens par 13. c. 4. But they which once cited appeare not are not straight way incorrigible Ergo. c. 3. Excommunication should be onely inflicted for criminall offences Non nisi pro mortali debet imponi crimine Meldens ibid. Excommunicationis sententiae ob criminales tantum causas easque valdè graves lethales feruntur Augustans c. 33. As the Apostle bideth an heretike to be after once or twice admonition reiected Tit. 3. 10 As likwise the Law of the Land awardeth the writ de excōmunicato capiendo to take place onely when the Excommunication proceedeth vpon contempt of some originall matter of criminall offencee as of heresie refusing to come to the Church Incontinency vsury Simony Periury Idolatry But euery absence vpon the first citation proceedeth not of any such contempte VVherfore a man ought not to bee excommunicate for the fees of the court or Cans 23. q. 4. c. 27 such like Pro vindicta propriae iniuriae c. To bee revenged for your owne wrong you haue giuen sentence of Anathema which is against the Cannons penitus interdicimus we forbid that for covetousnes sake none dare to excommunicate any Lateranens sub innocent 3. c. 49. 4. The Canons allow that a man should bee twice or thrice cited before hee bee excōmunicate secunda vel tertia admonitione interposita excōmunicationis sentetia procedat Caus 24. 3. 15. Neither should the first citation be peremptory diem peremptorium ad primam citationem non statuendum especially Lateranens sub Alexan p. 3. c. 5. for Ecclesiasticall matters but upon great urgent necessity S. Paul alloweth a manifest heretick two admonitions before he be reiected Much more where the offence is not manifest a canonicall that is thrice admonition should be used according to the constitution of Oxford nemo excommunicationem promulget c. No man shall denounce Excommunication where the excesse is not
Ergo seeing a Bishop and Presbyter are the same by the word of God iurisdiction doth of right belong to both Arg. 7. All pastorall duties doe equally belong unto the Pastors but to seperate the pretious from the vile is a Pastorall duty Ier. 15. 19. as it belongeth to the shepheard to seeke that which is lost Ezek 34. 4. that is to reconcile the penitent so also to separate the uncleane to correct the obstinate Augustine saith De corrept grat cap. 15. Pastoralis necessitas habet c. The Pastoral necessity requireth lest the contagion should spread further to separate the diseased sheepe from the sound Ergo it belongeth to Presbyters which are Pastors and haue their flockes Act. 20. 17. 28. to separate ane excommunicate the vile and uncleane Arg. 8. VVhatsoever belongeth to the gathering together of the Saints the work of the Ministery the edifying of the body of Christ is to be performed by the Pastors and Doctors with other Ministers of the Church for to this end hath Christ ordained these offices Ephes 4. 11. But to separate or excommunicate and recoÌ„cile are profitable to the said purposes This authority is given for edification 2. Cor. 10. 8. Ergo it belongeth to the Pastors and Teachers of the Church Arg. 9. The discipline should bee administred by such as are more likely to haue the spirit of direction and to whom with the least perill of the Church the censures might be exercised But an assembly of Presbyters are more like to haue the spirit of Direction as the Apostles and Presbyters assembled in councell saying It seemed good to the holy Ghost and Concil Affrican can 138. epist ad Coelestium to us Act. 15. 28. Thus saith the Councell of Affrican Vnlesse there be any that thinkes God inspireth one particular person with righteousnesse and forsaketh a number of Priests assembled in Synod Again there would arise lesse danger to the Church by this means for there is a rule in the Law Excommunicatus non potest excommunicare he that is excommunicate himselfe cannot excommunicate another caus 24. q. 1. c. 4. But a Bishop or any one Ecclesiasticall person may by many occasions stand under the censure of excommunication In what cases Bishops are liable to the censures of the church as if he haue two wiues caus 24. q. 3. c. 19. or if he bee a teacher of errour hee must bee delivered to Satan caus 24. q. 3. c 13. Pelagius or if he be an usurer caus 14. q. 4. c. 4. or a blasphemer or swearer Carth. 4. cap. 61. or a player at dice. Trullan c. 50. or be negligent in preaching and so continue can Apost 57. or giue orders for money Chalced. c. 2 Or be promoted for money Constant Conc. 6. gener c. 22. or make a lay man his vicar generall Hispatiens 2. c. 9. Or take upon him any civill office as vice-presidentship Iusticiariship Decr. Greg. 3. 58. 4. or sit in causes of bloud or giue sentence for the cutting off of any meber as of ears hands c. ibid. c 5. So writeth Alexander 3. in his rescript to the Bishop of Canterbury But a Bishop or any one man may stand excommunicate where an assembly or company cannot in this case by whom should the discipline be administred Ergo it is safer that the censures of the Church should bee disposed by many then by one Arg. 10. Presbyters by the word of God and practise of the Church are interessed in the spirituall rule and government of the Church but the Excommunication belongeth to the spirituall regiment Ergo For the proofe of the proposition first in the Scriptures wee find that the Apostles called together the Presbyters for the deciding of doubtfull questions and by the Apostle the Elders that labour in the word are made rulers the Elders that rule well especially they that labour in the word 1. Tim. 5. 17. they then that laboured in the word were also ruling Elders for how else should they haue a double honour being excluded from government which is counted one of the greatest honours of the Church Now the practise of the Church is most evident Hier. saith communi presbyterorum concilio Ecclesiae regebantur â—â—â—rom in â— 1. In the beginning Churches were governed by the common advise of presbyters caus 11. q. 3 c. 106. debent 12. sacerdotes Episcopum circumstare c. twelue Priests must stand by the Bisbop when he denounceth excommunication can 108. VVhen the penitent party was to bee reconciled the Bishop must bee assisted with as many caus 12. q. 2. c. 5. The Bishop could not dispose of the temporall things of the Church much lesse of spirituall inconsulto presbyterio not hauing before consulted with his presbitery neither was the assistance of the presbytery for decency and order onely but of necessity Episcopus nullius causam audiat absque praesentia clericorum aliter erit sententia irrita The Bishop shall heare no mans cause without the presence of his Clarks otherwise let the sentence bee voyd Carth. 4. c. 23. Thus it is evident that at the beginning the presbyters did assist the Bishops in the regiment and gouernment of the Church as is confessed also by our learned writers the government of the Church at the first was so apportioned that neither the presbyters should doe any thing without the Bishop Perpetual gover p. 307. nor the Bishop dispose matters of importance without his presbytery D. Fulke thus testifieth it is manifest that the authority of binding Ans to Rhem in 2 Cor. 2. sect 4. and loosing committing and retaining pertaineth generally to all the Apostles alike and to every pastor in his cure Thus was it in the beginning but by little and little in processe of time Bishops began to encroach upon presbyters and their office 1. Bishops had at the first but a priority before their presbyters they were not How Bishops by little and litile encroached upon Presbyters to suffer a presbyter to stand before them Carth. 4. 34. and within doores Collegam se presbyterorum esse cognoscat let the Bishop take himselfe to be the presbyters collegue and fellow but now Bishops are callled Prelats Ministers subditi their subiects 2. As yet the Bishops had no speciall kind of ordayning as differing in order from presbyters as Ambrose saith Episcopi presbyteri una ordinatio there is but one ordination of a presbyter and a Bishop uterque enim sacerdos for they are both but Priests or Ministers in 1. Tim. 3. afterward the Bishops brought in a speciall kind of consecration for themselues 3. Then they went further that whereas in giuing of Orders presbyters were ioyned with Bishops Carth. 4. c. 3. cited before they did assume that office to Hier. Evag. 10. themselues quid facit excepta ordinatione Episcopus c. What doth a Bishop that a Priest cannot doe ordination onely excepted 4. But not contented to stay here
Petit. p. 24. Answ 1. The 52. canon of the Laodicene Councell which decreeth that marriage should not bee solemnized in Lent doth no more shew that the restraint of marriage is not superstitious then because can 24. mention is made of 7. Ecclesiasticall orders and can 48. of chrisme to bee used after baptisme it might be inferred that neither are these observations popish VVe count not onely those corruptions popish which the pope in his ruffe invented but those of Elder time which hee hath retayned and seing the mysterie of iniquitie wrought in the Apostles time it is no marvaill if it wrought in the time of this Councell 2. This canon obiected maketh but one restraint of Marriage in time of lent but the Church of Rome brought in three froÌ„ More times of restraint for mariage observed in EnglaÌ„d then in the popish Church Advent to the Epiphany from Sepauagesima to the octaves of Easter from the RogatioÌ„ week to the octaues of peÌ„tecost all which times are strictly urged in Engl. still And yet the last time interdicted at Pentecost the Tridentine Chapter hath dispensed with Ses 24. cap. 10. So that heerein Protestants are more superstitious then Papists 3 This canon for restraint of marriage had but a superstitious beginning it was prohibited against such festivals because of the holinesse of the time so that these absur dities follow that marriage is a disgrace to these times which the Apostle calleth honorable Heb. 13 4. And that some time are more holy then other contrary to the Apostle Galath 4. 10. And if marriage bee not fit to be solemnized then all matrimoniall duties might as well bee forbidden and so married persons should bee forced to forbeare and to absteine the third part of the yeare who iudgeth not how inconvenient this would be 4. But seeing marriage in these times may bee lawfull by dispensation to what other use serued that canon then to draw advantage to their purses If they can make it lawfull for mony to some as well may the parliameÌ„t make it lawful to all persons without money And so the Petitioners request is resonable that day of fast onely excepted this al other Popish inconvenient canons should bee abrogated according to the statute of Henry 8. that such canons as by the 32. Commissioners to be nominated by the king should be found contrary to the word of God and the law of the land be abolished This acte was made ann Henry 8. 25. c. 19. repealed ann 1. 92. of P M. reviued ann Eliz. 1. c. 1. VVe desire onely the execution of it 7. of the long somnesse of Ecclesiasticall suites Obiect IT is not the fault of the Court or Iudge c. but some time the error of pleading the intricatnesse of the cause cunning of proctors c Answ 1. None of these pretenses can excuse the length of sutes 1. If the error Cod. lib. 2. tit 28. c. 1. be in the forme of pleading let Constantins law take place Iuris formulae te aucupatione syllabarum amputentur They sbould not stand soe strictly vpon termes and querks of lawe but goe directlie to the equitie of the cause as Innocent wrote to the Bishop of Hereford Non secundum formam Lateranens par 7. c. 13. in literis expressam sed secundum vigorem iustitiae iudicandum Iudge not according to the termes of the letter but after the tenure of iustice 2. If the fault be in the advocate let Iustinians law be executed Cod. lib. 3. tit 1. c. 11. Puniatur in duab libris auri Let a fine be set on his head 3. If the proctors trifle and make vnnecessary pleas let Theodosiê° law be revived that the iudge may remoue theÌ„ ab executione from their practise vt sciant causas à se non esse deludendas that they may learne not to delude causes 4. If the Clients be perverse Cod. lib. 3. tit 3. c. 2 and absent themselues Iustinian also hath taken order for that The Iudge may determine the suite in their absence and against their willes 2. Now for the time to be limited for the determination of suites the ciuill law prescribeth two yeares for criminall causes three years for ciuill pecuniarie suits The canon law also setteth for the Extav com lib. 1. tlt 9. c. 1. Sixtus 4. hearing of Ecclesiasticall suites betweene partie and partie two yeares But this is to bee presupposed in most difficult and intricare causes for the determining of some other civill or criminall a lesse time is limited as the space of 20. dayes Sciant Cod. lib. 1. t. 5. leg zeno Iudices intra viginti dierum spatium debere se prefata litigia postquam orta fuerint terminare And generallie this respect of Clergie mens suites Vt disceptatio litis Cans 11. q. 1. c. 45. duorum mensium spatium non excedat They should not exceed two monethes It were to be wished that some of these lawes What time may be thought meet to be limited for the detaining of suites were restored that a certaine time should be prefixed for a finall end of suites A yeare or two at the most might suffice for the deciding of the most intricate causes Now the Iudge Register advocate proctor are all agreed to prolong suits for their aduantatage and so as the prophete saith they wrape it vp Mic. c. 7 3. But the chiefe fault is in the Iudge who might abridge suits if he would And therefore Iustinian punisheth the Iudge in 10 Cod. lib. 1. tit 1. leg 11. pound of gould that determineth not causes within the time prescribed Leo the 10 decreeth theÌ„ to be excoÌ„municate Iudices causas coram eis pendentes sub poena excoÌ„municationis terminare debent The like Latran sub Leon. 10. sess 11. course if it were taken with our Ecclesiastical Iudges the whole kingdom would soone finde great ease 8. Of the oath ex officio Object THE oath ex officio is used as it ought to be by men of wisdome experience conscience c. Answ p. 25. Answ The oath ex Officio wee desire that it were in Ecclesiasticall courts more sparingly used or rather never used and in these poynts reformed wherein we think it is enforced contrary to the word of God and the law of this land 1. The oath whereby a man is forced to accuse himselfe should not be used in ordinarie proceedings and in trifling and common causes as now it is but in weightie and great matters which tend to the disturbance of the common peace or are against the State such as are handled in the most honourable Court of the Starre-chamber and it should bee used rather in civill causes then canonicall as in matters of trust Exod. 22. 11. And so by the Imperiall law in actione depositi a man might be onerated with an oath Cod. lib. 4. tit 1. leg 10. So in action of debt the debter might be put to his
the world these humble petitioners would by no means hane presumed thus to haue thwarted your Majesties Christian judgement We for our parts wish none other reformation then your Majesties own profession hath given us hope of We thank God for your Christian iudgement and constant resolution It is our happinesse that God hath sent vs such a king not onely noble in princely birth and natiuitie but in vertue knowledge and piety as the preacher sayth Blessed art thou O Eccl. 10. 17 Land when thy King is the sonne of Nobles and such an one as Ambrose describeth the King of Ninivie ser 40. Necesse erat ut qui potentior cunctis fuerat devotior fieret universis Further may it please your Maiestie 2. Observat difference betwene the old and new Oxford doctors to understand how much these Doctors and Proctors of Oxford doe vary from the iudgement of their predecessors approving those abuses and corruptions which were even in the time of Popery condemned in a Councell held at Oxford under Stephen Langthon Arch-Bishop of Canterbury not aboue 250. yeeres since 1. There the Pastors are enioyned Consil oxoniens sub steph Vt plebes sibi commissas c. That they procure the people committed unto them to be informed with the food of Gods word otherwise canes muti iudicentur they are counted dumb dogges But these Oxford men excuse unpreaching Ministers affirming that all were not Preachers in the primitiue Church pag. 14. 2. They decreed that none should be admitted to a vicarage nisi velit c. unlesse he will be personally resident in his Church They condemne Non-residence these iustifie Non-residents pag. 17. 3. They decreed that if they which are admitted to Cures of a certain value were not resident seeing bread must not be given but to those that labour Ecclesijs suis spolientur c. should be deprived But these count it an uncharitable act yea though other provision be made for them that they which cannot labour should be removed p. 15. 4. They would haue no spirituall offices farmed under paine of suspension statuentes c. decreeing that no Archdeaconry Deanery or other Office which consisteth in meere spirituall things nulli dentur ad firmam c. be put to none to farm These count it an indifferent thing pag. 24. 5. Old Oxford men thought good that none should bee excommunicate where the fault is not apparant Nisi canonica monitione praecedente unlesse they be canonically that is thrice admonished These new Oxford men count it contempt for the which men are now excommunicate p. 23. when as they use but once to bee summoned before 6. They forbid Ne praesumant pariter iudices esse actores that they should not be both iudges and actors or promoters But these simply approving the oath ex officio p. 25. do consequently allow such proceedings for in this case the Iudge dealing Ex officio is an agent and promotor of the cause 7. They punish such Advocates qui protrahunt matrimonium malitiose c. which wittingly protract suits of marriage and such are excommunicated because by them it commeth to passe ut contra iustitiam processus causae diutius suspendatur the proceeding in the cause is longer then iustice would suspended But these take upon them to defend longsomnesse of suits in Ecclesiastical courts 8. They determine Ne Monachus vel Canonicus Ecclesiam audeat retinere ad firmam That no Monke or Canon should hold any Church to farme but these maintaine the demising of impropriate Churches to lay Farmers p. 19. which is more unlawfull 9. They thought good Vt in singulis Ecclesijs ubi parochia est diffusa duo sint vel tres presbyteri That in great parishes there should be two or three presbyters But these allow two or three parishes to one Presbyter p. 18. 10. This Councell prohibiteth Ne Clerici iurisdictiones exerceant seculares c. That Cleargy-men exercise not secular iurisdictions especially to the which the iudgement of bloud is annexed and not to bee present where the iudgement of bloud is handled But now it is an usuall thing with our brethren not onely to be present but to sit as assistants to the Iudge in matters of life and death Thus was it decreed in those superstitious times It may seeme strange that any professing purity of religion should come short of them in those duties for our righteousnesse Math. 5. Homil. 5. Exod should exceed the righteousnesse of the Scribes and Pharisees And as Origen well saith Movenda sunt castra cum Israelitis urgenda est perfectio Our brethren should haue runne before their blinde predecessors in pious proceedings not bee cast behinde them to haue moved their tents forward to Canaan not to haue looked backe to the corruptions of Aegypt Beside as our brethren haue thus 3. observat failed in the matter so they haue been much overseen in the manner of handling They haue burdened the Petitioners and others with many untrue accusations laying to their charge lewd absurd false suggestions vntrue imputations clamorous libels defamatory supplications p. 5. We are further accused to be Schismatikes p. 5. Puritans resembled to Papists Epist p. 9. Dislikers of set and stinted prayers refusers condemners of the Lords prayer such as from whom Barrow and Greenwood tooke their beginning p. 11. favourers of those which write against Princes titles p. 9. That some of us haue caused our servants to goe to plough and cart upon the feast day of Christs nativity p. 13. Men accustomed to disobedience p. 23. That we giue power to the Presbytery to excommunicate Kings that we giue the Prince not potestatem iuris but onely facti p. 29. We are also charged with undue and dishonest practise in making petition Epist p. 4. with hypocrisie Ans p. 10. with factious Sermons scurrile Pamphlets ibid. To haue the hands of Esau Epi. p. 8. The mouth of iniquity p. 31. To bee Foxes Epist p. 11. Evill malicious ungratefull men p. 30. Neither haue our brethren stayd here but they haue taken upon them also to censure others some they call busie headed strangers imputing unto them the want of manners and discretion to take upon them in a state wherein they haue nothing to doe in which words they seeme to meane some who should not be in our opinion counted strangers seeing we are all under one God and King Now may it please your Maiesty what could we doe lesse then being thus uniustly accused by a modest and true defence to deliver our selues and our brethren from these imputations being not secretly surmised but publickly and that in writing yea and in your Majesties eares suggested We doubt not but your Maiesty wil grant us equal hearing as King Agrippa sayd to Paul Act. 26. 1 thou art permitted to speake for thy self Wee presse not to offend them but being provoked defend our selues as Hierom saith Vulneratus nequaquam contra persecutorem
farme Ne Laici Ecclesias ad firmam teneant Neither part 27. c. 3 vntruth We doe not content our selues with a 7. part only Reasons of the Petitioners motion conceruing lay mens tythes Synod Colō part 8. c. 5. need it offend our brethren that we seeme to be content with a sixt or seventh part not a seventh part onely as they charge us of such impropriations wee could wish the whole were restrained But seeing that some hold them by inheritance and some by purchase some of good place are wholy maintained of them such a motion would haue seemed unreasonable we say as not long since a provinciall Synod complained Decimas potissimum Ecclesiarum ministris deberi non est dubium That tythes are principally due to the Ministers it is not to be doubted but now they are every where so usurped of lay men that they cannot easily bee pulled out of their hands And this was one cause of so qualifying our motion as also lest we might haue seemed to be partiall while we wish Ecclesiasticall impropriations to stand for the maintenance of their corporations and aime at the dissolution of them of the lay sort as further fearing lest such a motion for these might haue been prejudiciall and dangerous for the other that serue to the maintenance of learning 16. Object It is possible that the men vntruth We despise them not whom they so much contemne would bee able to propose some other course c. Answ This course to be taken for impropriations tendeth not to the alteration or iniury of any state And if the confuters who it were to be wished did no more despise their brethren then they are despised could haue proposed any other course for the maintenance of the Church they might haue done well so to doe But it may be worthily suspected that they can hardly giue counsell to others that will not take it themselues that they which take upon them the defence of Non-residents pluralists impropriations can speake for the maintenance of the Church Ambrose saying may well fit such Quis vtilem causae alienae iudicet quem inutilem Lib. offic 2 12. videt vitae suae quommodo eum iudicare potes superiorem consilio quem vides inferiorem moribus supra me esse debet cui me committere paro an eum idoneum putabo qui mihi det consilium qui non dat sibi Hee cannot giue counsell to another that will take none himselfe neither can hee bee superiour in advice that is inferiour in life And to conclude nothing can bee objected of any weight or moment to hinder so good a worke and so princely a motion which the Kings Maiesty by his letters hath first made whose Christian zeale ought to make others forward Let every man laying aside his owne private respects further the common cause and seeke the generall good of Christs Church that S. Pauls complaint be not renewed All seek their owne and not that which is Iesus Christs Phil. 2. 27. And Hierome well saith Ne lucra saeculi in Christi quaeras militia c Seeke not the worldly gaine in Christs service THE DEFENCE OF THE FOVRTH PART OF THE PETItion concerning Church Discipline 1. Obj. VVE haue been taught heretofore Ans p. 20. that Discipline is an essentiall part of the Gospell c. and matter of faith Ans That the Discipline of the Church being generally understood is a matter of faith and an essentiall marke of the Church I hope our brethren will not deny For Discipline comprehendeth not onely the administration of the keyes but Perpetuall governmēt of the Church p. 208. ordination and imposition of hands but without ordination there are no preachers How shall they preach unlesse they bee sent Rom. 10. 15. And without preaching there is no beliefe ibid. vers 14. VVherefore without some part of Discipline it cannot bee denied but that the Church is no Church faith no faith but generally of euery part it cannot be so affirmed Cyprian is very peremptory for the necessitie of discipline thus writing Apparet non aliter Lib. 2. ep 7. Ecclesiasticae saluti consuli posse c. It appeareth that the safety of the Church cannot otherwise bee provided for unlesse they which are against it as contrary floods bee repelled and the ordor of Discipline as the stirring oare in a tempest be kept safe 2. Obj. It is now come to be so indifferent c. that it will suffer an OR ELS or AT THE LEAST Ibid. Ans And what haue the petitioners here moved which the kings most excellent Maiesty hath not first written That the Discipline of the Church bee preserved in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 44. purity according to Gods word VVhat needed our brethren then to haue carped at this petition Neither is that disiunctiue clause or else at the least any contradiction or repugnance to the former but an exception and qualifying thereof which giveth the adversary no advantage as the Law saith Exceptionem obijciens non videtur de intentione adversarij confiteri Reg. Iuris 63. And it is a condescending to the time that where the perfection desired can not be had reformation be sought that may be attained VVherefore as the rule is in the Law In Argumentum trahi nequeunt quae propter necessitatem aliquando sunt concessa Reg. Iuris 78. That which is yeelded to the necessity of time must not bee urged as the integrity of the thing If Christs institution were exactly kept many things shold be amended that are here not named but the Petitioners haue onely mentioned those things which in reason they thought would not be denied or gainsayd 3. Obj. Were we perswaded that their discipline were of Christs institution could we be without it c. Answ VVhat our brethren will be perswaded wee know not but if these things which are mooved bee not proved to bee agreable to the word of God and the practise of the primitiue Church wee desire not to bee heard but to be reiected with our cause VVee will not obtrude our owne fansies but measure our iudgment by the scriptures as Origen sayth Exhibeo sensus mei testem scripturam Homil. 1. in Ierem. Homil. 9. in Ierem. sensus nostri enarrationes sine ijs testibus non habent fidem I yeeld the scripture a witnesse of my sence my exposition without the scripture let it bee of no credite 4. Object His excellent Maiesty hath had Ans p. 20. experience of the manifold mischeifes that attend their pretended discipline c. Answ This discipline and reformation intended by vs is not attended vpon by any such mischifes other mens ouersights wee iustifie not neither approue any vnaduised proceedings Neither hath his Maiestie so euill opinion of the Scottish Discipline as they insinuate The right vse of a thing must not bee condemned for the abuse as the Law sayth vtile non debet per inutile vitiari Neither the
manifest examples of the primitiue Perpet gov p. 406. Church wee striue not for it Answ 1. But why we pray you do you make mention of the Canons of the Church onely and not of the word of God will you haue bishops to haue more authority and Pastors lesse then the word of God alloweth them 2. But we refuse not to debate this matter by the Canons and practise of the Church which notwithstanding hath been in part shewed before argum 10. and shall bee declared further in the answer to the 11. Objection Hierom thus writeth quomodo ibi leprosum sacerdos mundum vel immundū In Mat. ◠16. facit sic hic alligat vel solvit Episcopus presbyter As there under the Law the Priest made the leprous person cleane or uncleane so here the presbyter bindeth or looseth So then as the iudgement and censuring of the leprosie belonged not onely to the chiefe Priests but indifferently to them all He shall be brought to Aaron the Priest or one of his sonnes the Priests Lev. 13. 2. So now the censuring of spirituall leprosie should indifferently belong to all spirituall Pastors Further wee find that presbyters sate together with Bishops and gaue voyces and made decrees not onely in matters which concerne the word and doctrine as we are borne in hand but such as belonged Perpet gov pag. 291. to discipline and excommunication and anathematizing as is evident Concil Eliberrm to the which subscribed 36. presbyters can 52. 62. 67. And in Arelatens 2. can 25. 28. and can * 30. they decree concerning the suspension of Bishops to this Synod subscribed 12. presbyters from hence it is cleare that presbyters assembled in a synod haue power to excommunicate The imperiall Law saith We charge all Bishops and Priests that they separate no Novil constitut 125. c. 11. man from the sacred communion before they shew the cause c. And he that presumeth to excommunicate let him bee put from the communion Thus it was indifferent for Bishops or presbyters to excommunicate Obj. 6. Not in very Church but in every citty there were presbyters assisting and ayding Perpet gov p. 183. the Bishop and these were Clergy men to helpe him in all sacred actions and advise him in all iudiciall and Ecclesiasticall proceedings p. 184. Answ 1. Neither do we urge to haue a presbyterie of Clergy men in everie parish Church but that in every division the presbyters and Pastors should assemble together for the execution of Discipline 2. It being confessed that presbyters in cities haue assisted the Bishop in Ecclesiacall proceedings why then may not the presbyters of country Churches be admitted who are so much the more fit because they are acquainted with the particular diseases in their severall cures 3. The Presbyteries were not onely in great and populous citties neither had the bishops them such large circuits but that one presbytery might suffice for the Cittie and confines thereof for then the bishop had his proper parish Episcopus propriam parochiam non derelinquat Can. Apost 13. his The Bishop had his proper flock proper Church The bishop qui non acquierit ire ad Ecclesiam sibi cōmissam Which did not resolue to goe to the Church committed to his charge should be put from the communion Antioch concil c. 17. hee had his peculiar flock Episcopus grege sibi commissum c. The bishop must instruct the flocke committed unto him with the preaching of the word Turonens sub Carol. Then bishops lived not onely in famous great Citties but in base and obsure townes Episcopus de loco ignobili ad nobilem per ambitionē non transeat A bishop ambitiously must not go from a base and ignoble towne to a noble Carth. 4. can 15. Then bishops had not such a large Diocesse In Augustines time there were in one province under Carthage of the Catholicke Donatist aboue Bishops 9000. Of the Catholicks part there were present 286. and absent 120. by reason of sicknesse and old age Epispall Churches voyd 60. in all 466. Of the Donatists there were present 279. absent 120. Churches voyd 60. in all 459. These so many bishops in one province cannot be thought to haue had Diocesses much larger then some parishes And few bishoprickes haue so many parish Churches under them and none in England unlesse it be Norwich is found to haue more It is no marvell then if one presbyterie with the bishop sufficed for such Diocesses Object 7. Presbyters sate with the bishops at the first as assessors and consenters before Perpet gov p. 317. Synods undertooke such causes Ans 1. The frequenting of Synods was no let to the authority of the presbytery 1. It was a Synod that decreed that Sententia Episcopi c. The sentence of the Bishop should be voyd if it were not confirmed by the sentence of the Clergie Carth. 4. c. 23. 2. From the Nicene Councell to the time of this Synod were assembled in the space of an hundred years and somewhat more twenty provinciall Synods as the Elibortine Arelatens 1. and 2. Gangrens Agrippin Antioch Sardic with others 3. And before this it was decreed that there should be a Synod of bishops twice every yeare Antio c. 20. Constantin 1. c. 2. But after the time of this Synod of Carthage when the authority of the presbytery began to bee impaired it was decreed that bishops should assemble but once in the yeare Toletan 3. c. 18. So that even when Synods were most frequent the presbytery was in greatest authority it began to fail when Synods were not so often celebrated Obj. 8. For our parts though we take the keyes to be common to all that haue pastorall charge of soules in their degree yet to avoyd Perpet gov p. 320. the infinite showers of excommunication c. if every presbyter at his pleasure might excommunicate we praise the wisedome of Gods Church in suffering no inferiour to excommunicate without the Bishops consent c. Answ 1. If by the institution of Christ the administration of the keyes be common to all pastors what presumption is this for men to take upon thē to be wiser then God to change his institution The Esay 40. 13 prophet saith who hath instructed the spirit of God or taught him 2. It is not the wisdom of the Church but the ambition of Bishops that hath excluded the pastors as Diotrephes that loued to haue preeminence would not receive the brethren 3. Neither are Ioh. epist. 3. excōmunications the fewer because one by the Bishops authoritie excommunicateth but the more for there is like to be more grace and discretion in a companie of reverent and learned pastors then in one vnlearned Chancellor or Officiall and the Courts now intend their own gain therefore multiplie excommunications wheras then the profite of mens soules should be expected As though there hath not been long since complaint made of
the multiplicite of excommunications tot hodie fiunt officiales quod vix est aliquis c. There are so many excommunications now a dayes by officials that scarce any man that feareth God can liue in the world with a safe conscience VVhervpon it was directed vt caveant ab earū multiplicatione c. That they should beware of multiplying excômunications lest they be brought to contempt These are the showers of Chancelors and officials excommunications that flee faster then lightening in tempest Object 9. In our vnderstanding the Minister of the parish doth giue his consent to the petition p. 23. Ans VVhat consent call yee this when the Chancellor or Officiall sendeth his mandate and the Minister must denounce the sentence of excommunication or be suspended himselfe doe yee count this consent sufficient what is the pastor here els but the officials slaue to denounce his censures VVhat is this els but against the Apostle to be the seruantes of men But 1 Cor. 7. 21 De 7. ordin Eccles as Hierome saith non in dominatione vt servos habeas sed in ministerio liberos preachers should not be vsed as servants with indignitie but as free men in their ministrie Object 10. They intend the inabling of everie particular pastor alone to excommunicate Answ to the petition ibid. Ans Neither is it our desire that every particular Pastor should be inabled to excomunicat vntruth We giue no such power to particular pastors himself alone against the Apost rule not as Lords ouer Gods heritage As the the other is slavish so this were popelike as Hierome will saith contenti sint honore suo sciant se patres esse non dominos Let them be content with theyr owne honor and know they are fathers and not Lords Obejct 11. If the pastor ought to be ioyned in commission there would followe a world of troubles Answ ibid. Answ Neither were it fitt that everie pastor should be ioyned in commission with the Chauncelor and attend vpon his courts for that were infinite and tedious for the pastors to withdrawe them from their flocks Cyprian will saith Neque in altari meretur nominari in sacerdotum prece 1. Pet. 5. 3. Lib. 1. ep 9. qui ab altari sacerdotes avocare volunt Hce deserues not to be mentioned in the Minicters praiers that would draw him from executing his Ministery But it shall euen now appeare what our desire is Our desire is that discipline may be administred according to the rules of Gods word or as things now stand seeing there are three persons in this busines to bee respected the Bishop in his diocese the officers and Ministers of the Bishop and the severall pastors VVee would haue euery mans right reserved that all matters of instance and ciuill pleas should be still referred to the Civill Iudges but matters of office as they are called excommunication and spirituall misdemeanors to be censured by the companie of presbyters in euerie Deanrie and division assisted if it please the kings Maiestie with some graue persons of the Lay sort to be assembled monethly together or otherwise as there shall bee cause and from them if there bee any iust agrevance appeale to be made to the bishop Synods of the Bishops and Presbyters necessary with his synod of presbyters For this course to appeale and referre doubtfull matters to synods is both agreable to scriptuers and practise of the ancient Church As in Antioch when the Church was troubled about cercumcision they sent to the Apostles and Elders about that question Act. 15. 2. Thus was it decreed in the great Nicene synode that in euery prouince bishops should assemble twice in the yeare to heare the complaints of such as were excommunicate can 5. The same decree is revived Antioch c. 20. Neither had they onely provinciall synods but the bishop for the same cause had his assembly of pastors Cyprian writing to the presbyters and deacons of Carthage saith A primordio Episcopatus mei statui nibil sine consilio vestro mea privatim sententia gerere c. Since Cypr. lib. 3. epist. 10. my first entrance into my Episcopall charge I dermined to doe nothing priuately of my self without your counsell Gregorie saith lest there be any dissention among brethren c. Lib. 7. epist 110. In unum convnire sacerdotis est c It is necessarie for the Priests to meet together quem negligentia reijcit cum omnium presbyterorum consilio refutetur whom his owne negligence maketh vnworthy let him be displaced by the councell of the presbyters Turenens 2. c. 7. For this cause it was not long since decreed by a provinciall synod singulis annis saltem synodus diocesane a singulis Reformat Ratisp art 35. Episcopis celebrant Euery yeare at the least let everie Bishop celebrate a synod in his diocese Thus if this course were taken Christs institution for the censure of excommunication shall be kept the Pastors shall bee reverenced the preaching of the word furthered people with long iournies not wearied manners shall bee duely corrected And thus much is insinuated by Cyprian Epist 3. ad Cornel. A Equum est iustum ut uniuscujusque causa illic audiatur ubi est crimen admissum singulis pastoribus sit portio gregis a scripta quam regat unusquisque gubernet rationem sui actus Domino redditurus It is right and iust that every mans cause bee heard where the fault is made and to every pastor a part of the flock should be committed to bee governed VVherefore most noble King 1. seeing The conclusion excommunication should bee decreed by an assembly according to Christs rule Matth. 18. 18. 2. Neither should there be any monark or sole commander in the spirituall regiment of the Church 3. If S. Paul did not excommunicate without the Pastors 4. If all that haue authoritie to preach haue right to the keyes 5. If they which haue a ioynt power of ordination haue also of iurisdiction 6. If by the word of God a Bishop and a Priest are all one 7. If all pastorall duties equally belong to all Pastors 8. If whatsoeuer appertaineth to the edifying of the Church is appendant to the pastors office 9 If it be safer that many excōmunicate by consent then one 10. If it hath been the practise of the Church to ioyne presbyters with Bishops in the spirituall regiment of the Church 11. If all Priests indifferently under the Law did separate and restore lepers whereunto answereth excommunication and reconciliation now 12. If presbyters sate in councels and gaue voyces and are allowed by the Law imperiall to excommunicate And further seing nothing can bee obiected of any moment 1. Neither S. Pauls delivering to Sathan of Alexander and Hymeneus 2. Neither of the Incestuous yong man at Corinth 3. seeing the key of knowledge which pastors haue is not to be severed from the keye of power 4. and as well may