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cause_n bishop_n church_n think_v 1,479 5 4.5634 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A41330 The questions between the conformist and nonconformist, truly stated, and briefly discussed Dr. Falkner, The friendly debate &c., examined and answered : together with a discourse about separation, and some animadversions upon Dr. Stillingfleet's book entituled, The unreasonableness of separation : observations upon Dr. Templers sermon preached at a visitation in Cambridge : a brief vindication of Mr. Stephen Marshal. Firmin, Giles, 1614-1697. 1681 (1681) Wing F962; ESTC R16085 105,802 120

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so_o many_o thousand_o protestant_n be_v pour_v out_o in_o france_n and_o the_o day_n also_o on_o which_o so_o many_o hundred_o of_o gospel-minister_n to_o who_o christ_n have_v give_v both_o will_n and_o skill_n for_o his_o work_n success_n in_o his_o work_n be_v turn_v out_o of_o his_o work_n in_o england_n the_o crime_n both_o there_o and_o here_o which_o they_o find_v be_v the_o same_o the_o prince_n find_v against_o daniel_n in_o the_o law_n of_o his_o god_n a_o day_n of_o gladness_n it_o be_v to_o many_o but_o not_o to_o all_o upon_o the_o same_o ground_n one_o conformist_n and_o a_o man_n of_o note_n tell_v a_o captain_n under_o his_o majesty_n since_o his_o return_n that_o he_o be_v glad_a so_o many_o minister_n refuse_v to_o conform_v the_o captain_n will_v know_v his_o reason_n he_o give_v it_o thus_o have_v all_o minister_n conform_v people_n will_v have_v think_v there_o be_v nothing_o in_o religion_n only_o a_o thing_n to_o talk_v of_o in_o the_o pulpit_n and_o serve_v a_o 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great_a question_n about_o the_o rule_v elder_a but_o i_o be_o not_o to_o meddle_v with_o it_o now_o our_o brethren_n of_o the_o presbyterian_a judgement_n i_o suppose_v yield_v the_o question_n they_o may_v and_o aught_o to_o unite_v to_o make_v up_o one_o govern_v church_n but_o i_o do_v not_o full_o understand_v their_o meaning_n suppose_v twenty_o parish_n and_o congregation_n that_o meet_v together_o to_o worship_n god_n and_o twenty_o minister_n belong_v to_o they_o be_v these_o twenty_o parish_n distinct_a church_n as_o to_o word_n and_o sacrament_n so_o that_o he_o that_o be_v pastor_n in_o one_o church_n have_v nothing_o to_o do_v in_o another_o parish_n as_o to_o feed_v they_o with_o word_n and_o sacrament_n but_o as_o to_o government_n and_o jurisdiction_n one_o minister_n with_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la have_v power_n over_o they_o all_o if_o this_o be_v the_o meaning_n i_o be_o not_o satisfy_v in_o it_o dr._n still_v fleet_n have_v declare_v his_o judgement_n they_o may_v unite_v i_o wish_v he_o have_v please_v to_o have_v open_v his_o mind_n full_o about_o it_o if_o he_o will_v yield_v but_o this_o that_o constitution_n of_o a_o church_n wherein_o a_o pastor_n can_v possible_o feed_v with_o word_n and_o sacrament_n watch_v over_o and_o govern_v his_o flock_n according_a to_o christ_n be_v it_o diocesan_n or_o parochial_a that_o constitution_n be_v not_o according_a to_o christ_n and_o consequent_o unlawful_a as_o scripture-light_n and_o nature_n light_n will_v prove_v it_o i_o shall_v it_o may_v be_v come_v up_o to_o he_o to_o perform_v our_o duty_n by_o substitute_n this_o may_v please_v they_o who_o make_v their_o own_o brain_n not_o god_n word_n their_o rule_n and_o such_o we_o little_a regard_n god_n have_v now_o bring_v i_o to_o old_a age_n in_o my_o pilgrimage_n divers_a dispute_n about_o church-work_n and_o government_n i_o have_v read_v absurd_a unscriptural_a practice_n in_o church_n i_o have_v see_v woeful_a disorder_n and_o wretched_a effect_n i_o have_v hear_v and_o know_v great_a scandal_n but_o so_o circumstance_v that_o a_o single_a pastor_n can_v not_o proceed_v by_o mat._n 18.15_o etc._n etc._n to_o remove_v it_o i_o have_v meet_v with_o one_o of_o the_o able_a divine_n in_o england_n and_o exercise_v in_o government_n be_v of_o the_o same_o opinion_n with_o i_o all_o arise_v from_o this_o notion_n of_o a_o single_a pastor_n with_o such_o a_o people_n make_v a_o church_n and_o all_o which_o mischief_n may_v be_v avoid_v if_o the_o unite_n of_o several_a particular_a congregation_n into_o one_o particular_a church_n be_v admit_v which_o scripture-example_n and_o scripture-reason_n will_v sufficient_o justify_v chap._n iu._n of_o schism_n there_o remain_v yet_o one_o thing_n to_o be_v speak_v to_o viz._n the_o great_a crime_n of_o schism_n with_o which_o we_o be_v charge_v by_o the_o fr._n deb._n in_o his_o first_o and_o second_o book_n very_o deep_o thus_o also_o dr._n goodman_n and_o this_o be_v the_o common_a language_n of_o they_o all_o both_o in_o pulpit_n and_o press_n to_o which_o i_o will_v take_v liberty_n to_o speak_v more_o large_o that_o schism_n in_o the_o church_n be_v a_o great_a crime_n be_v ready_o yield_v by_o understand_a man_n of_o all_o party_n and_o no_o party_n will_v own_v it_o though_o they_o be_v guilty_a enough_o of_o it_o at_o this_o day_n all_o but_o conformist_n be_v schismatic_n but_o to_o the_o prelatical_a party_n this_o sin_n be_v a_o stranger_n yea_o in_o the_o time_n of_o our_o trouble_n when_o they_o be_v in_o france_n and_o refuse_v communion_n with_o the_o french_a protestant_a church_n yet_o a_o prelatical_a person_n be_v not_o then_o nor_o can_v be_v guilty_a of_o schism_n but_o they_o be_v schismatic_n in_o france_n what_o be_v schism_n dr._n goodman_n tell_v we_o p._n 112_o 113._o schism_n be_v a_o voluntary_a separation_n of_o one_o self_n without_o cause_n give_v from_o that_o christian_a church_n whereof_o once_o he_o be_v a_o member_n he_o open_v his_o definition_n p._n 113_o 114._o first_o it_o be_v a_o separation_n etc._n etc._n i._n e._n when_o a_o man_n shall_v refuse_v to_o join_v in_o the_o act_n and_o exercise_n of_o religion_n use_v by_o such_o a_o society_n and_o to_o submit_v to_o its_o authority_n so_o he_o that_o refuse_v baptism_n the_o lords-supper_n or_o to_o submit_v to_o the_o censure_n of_o the_o church_n thus_o he_o but_o what_o he_o mean_v by_o non-submission_n to_o the_o censure_n of_o the_o church_n i_o know_v not_o for_o i_o know_v but_o few_o nonconformist_n that_o be_v under_o the_o censure_n of_o their_o church_n nor_o how_o it_o will_v agree_v with_o his_o second_o which_o be_v 2_o it_o must_v be_v voluntary_a separation_n so_o that_o excommunicate_a person_n be_v no_o schismatic_n 3_o it_o be_v separation_n from_o a_o particular_a church_n 4_o of_o which_o church_n he_o be_v once_o a_o member_n because_o schism_n import_v division_n make_v two_o of_o that_o which_o be_v but_o one_o before_o but_o according_a to_o this_o open_n of_o his_o definition_n i_o pray_v sir_n tell_v we_o how_o you_o will_v prove_v we_o schismatic_n for_o take_v up_o your_o three_o head_n 1._o i_o pray_v tell_v we_o what_o be_v that_o particular_a church_n you_o mean_v national_a diocesan_n parochial_a as_o for_o the_o national_a i_o know_v not_o how_o you_o understand_v a_o national_a church_n for_o as_o i_o understand_v it_o you_o can_v prove_v we_o schismatic_n for_o the_o diocesan_n you_o can_v prove_v we_o schismatic_n unless_o the_o refuse_v to_o submit_v to_o prelatical_a government_n be_v schism_n for_o the_o sacrament_n belong_v not_o to_o a_o diocesan_n church_n quâ_fw-la sic_fw-la i_o suppose_v dr._n goodman_n judgement_n to_o be_v the_o same_o with_o the_o doctor_n that_o keep_v the_o act_n at_o the_o commencement_n at_o cambridg_n i_o hear_v so_o much_o of_o one_o question_n that_o i_o labour_v much_o to_o get_v a_o view_n of_o it_o but_o can_v not_o in_o our_o part_n a_o conformist_n tell_v i_o it_o be_v to_o this_o purpose_n recessio_fw-la a_o regimine_fw-la episcopali_fw-la est_fw-la mortale_fw-la schisma_fw-la he_o tell_v i_o damnabile_fw-la schisma_fw-la as_o it_o be_v tell_v he_o i_o say_v only_o this_o to_o it_o as_o god_n give_v up_o some_o man_n to_o monstrous_a lust_n in_o practice_n so_o he_o do_v other_o to_o as_o monstrous_a opinion_n in_o judgement_n in_o these_o day_n so_o that_o it_o must_v be_v mean_v the_o parochial_a church_n but_o 2_o i_o pray_v prove_v that_o we_o be_v member_n once_o of_o that_o particular_a church_n you_o mean_v for_o the_o diocesan_n we_o deny_v any_o such_o church_n especial_o as_o your_o constitution_n be_v to_o be_v according_a to_o christ_n institution_n and_o therefore_o be_v not_o be_v not_o member_n of_o it_o for_o the_o parochial_a church_n i_o pray_v how_o be_v we_o member_n of_o they_o 1._o not_o by_o our_o baptism_n if_o that_o be_v your_o meaning_n i_o will_v soon_o give_v argument_n to_o confute_v it_o 2._o not_o by_o my_o dwell_n within_o such_o a_o parish-bound_n though_o i_o be_o for_o the_o vicinity_n of_o church-member_n yet_o i_o be_v not_o so_o simple_a when_o i_o be_v in_o my_o place_n to_o think_v that_o all_o the_o people_n that_o dwell_v within_o the_o bound_n of_o the_o parish_n where_o i_o be_v minister_n must_v own_v i_o for_o their_o minister_n as_o if_o a_o spot_n of_o ground_n measure_v out_o by_o a_o civil_a constitution_n must_v make_v a_o man_n a_o member_n of_o a_o church_n which_o as_o such_o be_v a_o spiritual_a and_o free_a society_n i_o wish_v dr._n goodman_n can_v convince_v all_o the_o papist_n that_o dwell_v within_o these_o parish_n that_o therefore_o they_o be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n or_o schismatic_n 3._o i_o know_v nothing_o but_o consent_v that_o constitute_v any_o man_n a_o member_n of_o a_o church_n but_o that_o we_o never_o give_v either_o to_o the_o priest_n impose_v upon_o we_o by_o a_o patron_n and_o a_o prelate_n nor_o to_o the_o parochial_a church_n as_o you_o take_v parochial_a wherefore_o upon_o dr._n goodman_n definition_n i_o argue_v where_o there_o be_v no_o union_n there_o can_v be_v no_o schism_n but_o between_o we_o and_o your_o church_n there_o be_v no_o union_n ergo_fw-la no_o schism_n why_o then_o do_v he_o charge_v we_o with_o it_o 3_o suppose_v we_o be_v member_n yet_o still_o you_o be_v to_o prove_v there_o be_v no_o cause_n give_v for_o our_o separation_n which_o though_o you_o attempt_v to_o do_v yet_o sir_n you_o must_v bring_v other_o manner_n of_o argument_n than_o rhetorical_a flourish_n and_o humane_a story_n to_o convince_v we_o but_o one_o thing_n more_o why_o do_v he_o tie_v up_o his_o definition_n to_o a_o particular_a church_n i_o think_v a_o man_n may_v hold_v communion_n with_o that_o particular_a church_n of_o which_o he_o be_v a_o
the_o church_n and_o worship_n of_o god_n to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n will_v have_v hinder_v our_o pocket_n bibles_n individua_fw-la sunt_fw-la infinita_fw-la but_o for_o significant_a ceremony_n all_o the_o moysaicall_a ceremony_n be_v set_v down_o to_o the_o pin_n of_o the_o tabernacle_n and_o if_o god_n have_v like_v ceremony_n as_o we_o do_v he_o can_v have_v set_v down_o twice_o as_o many_o as_o popery_n afford_v 8_o these_o mystical_a ceremony_n be_v external_a worship_n as_o i_o say_v before_o but_o so_o be_v not_o circumstance_n mr._n falkner_n evade_v these_o text_n in_o deut._n 12_o etc._n etc._n tell_v we_o as_o the_o author_n of_o the_o er._n deb._n that_o the_o text_n concern_v the_o judicial_a law_n as_o well_o this_o i_o have_v speak_v to_o before_o also_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o divers_a thing_n refer_v to_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n 360._o pag._n 360._o be_v allowable_o under_o the_o jewish_a dispensation_n order_v as_o matter_n of_o decency_n and_o expediency_n by_o humane_a prudence_n but_o sir_n this_o reach_v not_o our_o question_n we_o be_v inquire_v for_o a_o warrant_n for_o such_o ceremony_n as_o your_o preface_n and_o our_o question_n from_o thence_o treat_v of_o else_o i_o yield_v before_o that_o the_o jew_n be_v not_o determine_v in_o every_o particular_a circumstance_n but_o m._n falkner_n refer_v we_o to_o a_o former_a section_n where_o he_o have_v instance_a in_o such_o thing_n at_o p._n 311._o i_o find_v there_o he_o begin_v first_o with_o the_o discumb_a gesture_n at_o the_o passover_n which_o they_o change_v from_o stand_v to_o this_o i_o speak_v before_o 2_o he_o instance_v in_o the_o white_a garment_n that_o the_o levite_n do_v wear_v 1_o chron._n 15.27_o for_o which_o there_o be_v no_o direction_n give_v in_o the_o word_n yet_o the_o scripture_n speak_v of_o the_o allowableness_n of_o these_o levitical_a garment_n answ_n 1._o but_o the_o question_n be_v whether_o these_o levitical_a garment_n be_v ordain_v by_o man_n to_o signify_v a_o spiritual_a duty_n they_o owe_v to_o god_n and_o be_v to_o stir_v up_o their_o dull_a mind_n to_o their_o duty_n and_o to_o edify_v they_o if_o not_o they_o reach_v not_o the_o question_n but_o of_o this_o not_o a_o word_n in_o scripture_n sanctius_n 1_o sam._n 2._o conceive_v and_o other_o with_o he_o that_o these_o be_v not_o holy_a garment_n which_o samuel_n while_o a_o child_n do_v wear_v and_o david_n also_o wear_v when_o he_o dance_v before_o the_o ark_n who_o be_v not_o of_o the_o priest_n order_n and_o certain_o they_o know_v the_o garment_n of_o the_o levite_n to_o be_v according_a to_o the_o mind_n of_o god_n else_o they_o will_v not_o have_v dare_v to_o have_v use_v they_o when_o god_n have_v so_o late_o make_v a_o breach_n for_o want_v of_o due_a order_n they_o have_v way_n to_o know_v god_n mind_n that_o we_o have_v not_o 2._o for_o the_o levite_n one_a they_o be_v of_o the_o same_o tribe_n with_o the_o priest_n 2_o their_o work_n be_v about_o the_o holy_a thing_n of_o god_n as_o be_v the_o priest_n 3_o there_o be_v nothing_o determine_v about_o the_o apparel_n or_o garment_n of_o the_o levite_n by_o god_n numb_a 8._o neither_o for_o matter_n whether_o linen_n or_o woollen_a nor_o for_o the_o colour_n 4_o but_o yet_o black_a colour_n be_v not_o i_o conceive_v allowable_a about_o the_o temple_n worship_n the_o bread_n of_o mourner_n hos_fw-la 9.4_o be_v but_o unclean_a hence_o the_o text_n deut._n 26.14_o and_o that_o of_o aaron_n levit._n 10.19_o when_o there_o be_v such_o a_o cause_n of_o mourning_n do_v not_o eat_v god_n require_v cheerfulness_n in_o his_o worship_n and_o service_n deut._n 12.7_o whiteness_n be_v the_o colour_n that_o betoken_v cheerfulness_n in_o all_o sort_n of_o person_n eccles_n 9.8_o let_v thy_o garment_n be_v always_o white_a we_o find_v a_o threaten_n against_o the_o chemarim_n zephan_n 1.4_o those_o black_a priest_n atrati_fw-la because_o clothe_v in_o black_a so_o schindl_n pagn_n buxtorf_n vatablis_n drusius_n jun._n &_o tremel_n god_n have_v appoint_v white_a in_o his_o priest_n and_o worship_n lay_v all_o these_o together_o and_o we_o may_v see_v good_a reason_n why_o the_o levite_n choose_v white_a garment_n and_o so_o david_n partly_o for_o lightness_n and_o the_o joy_n now_o dance_v before_o the_o ark._n so_o that_o this_o instance_n do_v not_o yet_o prove_v the_o question_n beside_o i_o do_v not_o see_v how_o the_o carry_v the_o ark_n or_o david_n dance_n be_v part_v of_o worship_n his_o three_o instance_n the_o altar_n of_o witness_n make_v by_o the_o two_o tribe_n but_o i_o know_v not_o how_o this_o reach_v the_o case_n for_o that_o be_v not_o intend_v with_o any_o respect_n to_o divine_a worship_n the_o ten_o tribe_n fear_v it_o and_o send_v their_o messenger_n about_o it_o but_o the_o two_o tribe_n protest_v against_o it_o they_o have_v no_o such_o intent_n josh_n 22.29_o god_n forbid_v etc._n etc._n there_o be_v no_o worship_n and_o our_o question_n be_v about_o religious_a humane_a ceremony_n appropriate_v to_o worship_n his_o four_o instance_n the_o temple_n itself_o design_v by_o david_n and_o approve_v by_o god_n 1_o king_n 8.17_o 18._o ans_fw-fr 1._o if_o this_o be_v follow_v than_o you_o will_v tell_v we_o that_o something_o essential_a to_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n may_v be_v invent_v by_o man_n as_o i_o touch_v before_o will_v you_o sir_n affirm_v it_o i_o be_o sure_a the_o temple_n be_v essential_a to_o their_o worship_n 2._o place_n be_v but_o a_o circumstance_n of_o worship_n if_o the_o place_n be_v more_o splendid_a and_o sumptuous_a it_o be_v but_o a_o place_n still_o but_o i_o pray_v do_v david_n intend_v to_o build_v a_o place_n to_o have_v that_o mystical_a signification_n that_o the_o temple_n have_v prove_v this_o i_o pray_v else_o you_o reach_v not_o the_o question_n there_o be_v nothing_o of_o this_o appear_v in_o the_o chapter_n david_n be_v move_v from_o the_o zeal_n he_o bear_v to_o the_o honour_n of_o god_n the_o want_n of_o this_o the_o lord_n reprove_v hag._n 1.4_o 9_o 3._o david_n do_v ground_v his_o design_n upon_o deut._n 12.10_o when_o he_o give_v you_o rest_n from_o all_o your_o enemy_n round_o about_o etc._n etc._n then_o there_o shall_v be_v a_o place_n which_o your_o god_n shall_v choose_v to_o which_o text_n 2_o sam._n 7.1_o answer_n when_o the_o king_n sit_v in_o his_o house_n and_o the_o lord_n have_v give_v he_o rest_v round_o about_o from_o all_o his_o enemy_n etc._n etc._n then_o david_n be_v think_v to_o prepare_v a_o place_n so_o that_o david_n have_v ground_n for_o his_o enterprise_n only_o he_o be_v mistake_v as_o to_o his_o enemy_n for_o he_o have_v much_o war_n after_o this_o and_o that_o solomon_n render_v as_o one_o cause_n why_o he_o can_v not_o build_v the_o house_n 1_o king_n 5.3_o and_o in_o the_o four_o v._n but_o now_o the_o lord_n my_o god_n have_v give_v i_o rest_n on_o every_o side_n so_o that_o there_o be_v neither_o adversary_n nor_o evil_a occurrent_a so_o that_o david_n and_o solomon_n have_v respect_n to_o that_o law_n 4_o i_o know_v no_o error_n in_o it_o if_o i_o shall_v say_v god_n also_o inspire_v david_n god_n have_v a_o great_a council_n a_o decree_n of_o he_o to_o reveal_v to_o david_n of_o build_v he_o a_o house_n and_o of_o christ_n to_o come_v of_o he_o after_o the_o flesh_n rom._n 1.3_o act._n 13.23_o he_o put_v david_n upon_o it_o have_v also_o declare_v his_o purpose_n before_o in_o the_o law_n deut._n 12.10_o 11._o and_o take_v occasion_n from_o this_o love_n of_o he_o to_o god_n to_o open_v his_o love_n and_o decree_n towards_o david_n that_o god_n do_v inspire_v he_o bradwardin_n do_v intimate_v the_o cause_n dei_fw-la l._n 1._o c._n 25._o those_o word_n in_o the_o five_o vers_fw-la shall_v thou_o build_v i_o etc._n etc._n diodati_n think_v to_o be_v word_n of_o admiration_n rather_o than_o reprehension_n and_o the_o seven_o v._o speak_v i_o word_n etc._n etc._n god_n have_v often_o say_v in_o his_o law_n that_o he_o will_v choose_v himself_o a_o place_n but_o have_v not_o express_v where_n or_o when_o it_o shall_v be_v and_o therefore_o love_o admonish_v david_n to_o wait_v for_o this_o expression_n thus_o diodati_n but_o this_o still_o intimate_v that_o david_n take_v the_o word_n for_o his_o ground_n hence_o psal_n 32.5_o until_o i_o find_v a_o place_n for_o the_o lord_n david_n use_v the_o same_o word_n which_o moses_n do_v in_o deut._n 12.11_o his_o next_o instance_n be_v in_o the_o synagogue-worship_n in_o which_o they_o be_v leave_v in_o some_o particular_n to_o their_o own_o prudential_a determination_n which_o the_o christian_a church_n be_v not_o instance_n be_v give_v in_o their_o synagogal_a officer_n admit_v by_o imposition_n of_o hand_n when_o neither_o their_o office_n and_o authority_n nor_o