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A13949 Three small and plaine treatises 1. Of prayer or actiue 2. Of principles, or positiue 3. Resolutions, or oppositiue Diuinitie. Translated and collected out of the auncient writers for the priuate vse of a most noble ladie. By an old praebendary of the Church of Lincolne. Williams, John, 1582-1650. 1620 (1620) STC 24259; ESTC S102025 30,759 166

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pag. 342. Papist b Russic conun c. 23. p. 103. Russeist c Sle. Hist l. 5. Anabaptist d Allens confes Familist and e Protest p. 16. Puritan hold no Church a Church of God but his owne conuenticle and all to bee damn'd that are not of his societie and combination Now what beliefe you shall affoord these Bouteseux of the Catholike Church that dispose of Heauen and Hell as if it were their own Fee-simple I leaue to your wisdome and common vnderstanding Pap. Me thinks you now put me in minde of another obiection which vsually we make against the Protestants of England that they bring in too much good fellowship in religion and make Saluation a flowre which growes in euery mans garden Seeing that according to their Tenets Papist Protestant Anabaptist and Familist may euery one of them by meanes offered in his own Church as a portion or fragment of the Catholike Church attaine vnto Saluation Prot. If you were learned I could answere you in a word that none of these three Sectories considered in his owne Formality Qua talie as he is a Papist Anabaptist or Familist can euer attaine vnto Saluation but only as he is a Christian man admitted by Baptisme vnto the visible Church there made partaker of Gods word and Sacraments For then although these blessed means are very much weakened and obscured in their Synagogues by the malice of Sathan and inuentions of men yet may that holy Spirit that * Iohn 3.8 bloweth where he listeth worke in such a mans heart by these weake instruments and the rather the more the Word is faithfully preached and the Sacraments be in those places sincerely administred a true faith in Christ Iesus to bring him to saluation So then we doe not hold that Papists Anabaptists and Familists but onely that some Christians liuing in their congregations may though with great difficultie in comparison of this flourishing Church of ours and these admirable meanes of Saluation tendered in the same by the speciall mercy of God be saued and preserued If we be in an errour it is safer to erre in Charity then in Malice and praecipitancie considering the euent hereof is vnknowen to either of vs. Pap. I but where was your Church before this reformation began Prot. 1. When our Sauiour Christ with-drew the people from the a Matt. 16.12 leauen of the Scribes and Pharisees to the bread b Iohn 6.35 which came down from heauen and to saluation by faith in his Name was it fitting to demaund of him where his Church was before that Reformation 2. When these Churches of c 1. Corin. 5.1 Corinth d Galat. 3.1 Galatia e Reuel 2.12 Pergamus and f Reuel 2.18 Thiatyra were full of abuses if some part onely vpon the preaching of the Apostles had reformed themselues and so a diuision had growen would you straight wayes haue tax't them of Nouelty or ask't them where their Church had beene before this reformation 3 When the Apostles cast off ●he Lawe of Moses excepting only those g Acts 15.29 three or foure Ceremonies and when the Primitiue church some hundred yeeres after cast off those Ceremonies also for I finde them breathing of their last as it were about the times of h Anno 〈◊〉 140. Dialog qu● ins●●●●tur Tryphon Iustin Martyr had it not beene a poore challenge of the Iewes or Traskists of those times to demaund where this vnceremoniall Church lay hid before the reformation I answer then that our Church before this reformation began liued together in one communion with yours with toleration of all those abuses which you haue still retained and wee most iustly reiected Pap. I but I hope you dare not compare in the gifts of the Spirit with Christ his Apostles or those worthies of the primitiue Church And therefore how presumed you to reforme your selues Reformation being a worke fitter for a generall Councell to haue gone about then for a small handfull of Northerne people Prot. Luther in epist ad Galat. in praefat distinctio admissa in Comitijs Augustanis ab ipsis Germanis Principibus Scultet annal decad 1. pa. 43. The Court of Rome had so gained vpon the Church of Rome that is the Pope and his conclaue of Cardinals had wriggled in themselues to that transcendencie of power ouer the rest of the Clergie and well minded laity that it appeared both at a In the yeere 1415. Constance b In the yeere 1546. Trent there was small hope of Reformation from such a Councell where the Pope the partie to bee reformed became the party reforming and supreame Iudge and president of the Reformation it selfe Although poore seduced ignorant women are much caried away with the name of the Councell of Trent yet you will quickly find out this ridiculous absurdity In a generall Councell as now it is held sithence the decay of the Empire the Pope is the party to be accused yet puts vp his owne endictment passeth a iury of his own vassals and finde they what they will being to giue finall iudgement he will be sure to do as his supposed predecessor taught our Sauiour to doe to wit fauour himselfe Matth. 16.22 So as there was no hope of doing good by a Generall Councell See the history of the Councell of Trent vnles it were a generous and free Councell and such a one the Pope you may bee sure would neuer abide Gerson de concil vnius obed And therefore one of your own writers concludes that in such a case seuerall kingdomes are to reforme themselues by National Councels which England and Denmark did put in practise Pap. Yea but it is too wel knowne It was no zeale of Reformation but carnall respects that mooued King Henry to touch vpon religion Prot. To you it seemes it is giuen to know these secrets but I see no reason we should thinke so The King could not bee induced to this reformation as a meanes to possesse himselfe of the Abbeies for they were already swallowed vp 31. Henr. 8. Nor as a preparatiue for his woing as Saunders thinks because Fisher the Bishop of Rochester who opposed his marriage made vp the one and twentieth prelate in banishing the Pope out of this Kingdome Instruction of a Christian in the Preface But without doubt the finger of God was the cause whatsoeuer was the hint or occasion Act. 23.1 Festus his popularitie and humour of pleasing gaue S. Paul occasion to appeale to Cesar and to visite Rome where and when hee layd the first stone of the Romane church Would you like it well a Protestant should say that your Church was founded vpon courtship and popularity If any carnall respect whetted on the king that was but the opportunity God onely was the first mouer and prime Agent in this reformation Pap. Nay surely God is the God of vnity but your Church being once seuered from the Romane