Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	bishop_n	church_n	rome_n	6,168	5	7.0527	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A09069	A booke of Christian exercise appertaining to resolution, that is, shewing how that we should resolve our selves to become Christians indeed: by R.P. Perused, and accompanied now with a treatise tending to pacification: by Edm. Bunny.; Booke of Christian exercise. Part 1.	Bunny, Edmund, 1540-1619.; Bunny, Edmund, 1540-1619. Treatise tending to pacification.; Parsons, Robert, 1546-1610. Christian directory.	1584 (1584)	STC 19355; ESTC S105868	310,605	572

14 That other hinderance that is of more special force with them al generally is that they have a certain persuasion that they can not join with us in our profession but that so they should depart from the catholik church Which thing indeed is of such importance that if it were tru it were not for any that loved his own salvation or the glorie of God to join with us in our religion For there is but one church as also there is but one faith and whosoever they are that depart from either of both they cannot be of sound religion whatsoever it is they do professe Therfore to examin this matter a little first we may do wel to search out what it is that maketh them to think that if they should reform their profession so far foorth as we have done they should then depart from the catholik church and so consequently deprive themselves of aeternal life then how the same opinion of theirs may be amended Concerning the former me think that the principal cause of this their persuasion is for that they do not rightly gather neither what the church it selfe is nor yet what it is to depart from the same And then if the groundwork it selfe be wrong it is no marvel if the building that be set therupon be awrie likewise The former of them is that in the aestimation of the church they take not unto them a right trial to teach them which is the church indeed For the levels that they commonly use are especially two one taken out of the first foundation of it the other the successe that since it hath had to this praesent time wherin we live Out of the foundation of their church they go about to establish the certaintie of it by two conveiances one from Christ unto Peter the other from Peter unto them For first they imagin that Christ made Peter the cheefe of al and his general substitute heer on earth that he should be under him the head of his church and have the feeding of al that are his Out of this they gather that those onlie are the church that acknowledge Peter next under Christ to be their cheefe principal head Then do they conceive that Peter was disposed to leave this primacy with the church of Rome and to those that should be the bishops therof and that for that cause he left other places and came unto Rome and was bishop there five and twentie yeers And therupon they think they may safely gather that whosoever is not under the church of Rome he also is none of the church of God These conveiances do we take to be of very little force and so consequently no matter of substance to assure us of the truth of this matter For first that Peter had any such praerogative or primacie we find it not set down by Christ himselfe or by any of his Apostles which notwithstanding must needs have been done without quaestion if it had been tru being as it was of such importance Then as touching any assigment over from him to the church of Rome and to those that should be the bishops therof neither do we find by undowted authoritie that he ever did it nor if he had at any time done it yet that he had libertie so to do and that God would ratifie his assigment But I mean not to enter into that discourse sufficiently handled by many others neither is it needful when as our adversaries themselves do of late so much mislike that part of their groundwork that none of them al of any account can finde in their harts to build so much as their own credit theron The other which standeth in the successe that their church hath had is indeed of greater force to such a purpose but yet notwithstanding such as being rightly considered yeeldeth no assurance to the matter that we have in hand The successe which the church of Rome hath had resteth in two principal points in continuance and consent of others By continuance I mean that it hath not fallen bak again to Paganism or heathenish vanitie neither yet stept aside to the sect of Mahomet as the Turks and manie others have done but ever continued after a sort in the profession of the faith since the time that by the Apostles it was delivered unto them Which surely is a very special blessing of God an evident work of the holie Ghost and a very good cause why al those that wish wel to the Gospel of Christ should have the ancient church of Rome so much the more in reverence for it So commeth it to passe that they have not onlie had after a sort a continual succession of bishops teachers but also have in some maner praeserved and hitherto maintained both the word and the sacraments that Christ himself did leave unto us The consent also that they have had hath been verie great yet not ever alike but somtime more than at some other So long as it kept the faith undefiled and was earnestly bent to advance the kingdom of Christ and would in no wise break but carefully maintained the unitie of the church so long they had the consent of al that dwelt about them or by any means could have any dealing with them And that not altogither for the antiquitie and dignitie of the citie bicause it had been of great continuance in a florishing estate and was now the imperial seat but also even for the sinceritie of the faith and for divers excellent gifts that God had powred upon that church in plentiful maner But after that the former zeal being abated it began to fal in love with earthly things and to break the peace of the church to advance it selfe then began manie to let down their former good liking of it al the East churches generally and manie of the better sort in the West likewise Nevertheles even then also the greatest part of al Europe and some others else-where besides did cleave unto it partly of themselves for the former dignitie of the place or for that they perceived not how they began to slide away from the sinceritie of their profession but especially bicause of the great power that the church of Rome did after obtain from which they saw not how to withdraw themselves without some praesent displeasure or danger Hence commeth it that they have had their doings allowed and their opinions confirmed not onlie by manie several persons of best account but also by Provincials abroad and by general Councels at home themselves or their frinds in these latter ages ever bearing the sway in them both So that indeed the church of Rome hath had such successe in these parts of the world among us that to our knowledge there hath not been the like for earthlie pomp any where else Yet notwithstanding this also is over weak wherupon to set that building of theirs needs must it have a faster ground else can it never be able to

so much as he Those with whom they have held hands so long togither are either the bishop of Rome or his frinds abroad for their advantage or else of their own countrimen at home that are grown to so great misliking of the praesent state If it be the bishop and his adhaerents it is but for their own advantage that they conceive that opinion of them so to make up their losses again by the help of them when opportunitie should serve them unto it And the more that their aestimation savoreth of it the more quietly may they be able to beare the losse therof If they be of our discontented countrimen at home the losse also is so much the lesse for that none such wil not mislike of them but so far as themselves are infected with the inchanted cup of forrain power and then the more they are infected therwith the lesse woorth is the best aestimation they are able to give Again whatsoever aestimation is lost either with forrain power abroad or with hollow harts at home the same wil be much more requited with the gratious favor of their natural princes and with the tru hart of faithful subjects and that so much the more in abundance of recompense as it is of greater price or valu to be wel thought on by natural princes and faithful subjects than of forren usurpers and close aides whersoever 10 The hardnes that they account themselves to be put unto to the utter aliening of their minds from us and our profession resteth especially in these two points first that divers of them are streightly handled then that certain points of their religion as they term it are now made treason They accoūt themselves to be streightly handled both in the fining of recusants and that certain of that profession are put to death Concerning both which they would not denie but that the punishment were moderate inough both in the one in the other if either they could finde that they were so heinous offenders as we do conceive and charge them to be or else but remember what dealings themselves have used to us and yet do upon lesse occasion As touching the former they wil not denie but that princes have authoritie by the word of God both to fine and to put to death as need requireth They know that such as worship any strange God or but intise others therto or stubbornly despise the word of God are by the sentence of Gods own mouth accounted woorthie to die the death and though it may be themselves do not see that by aequitie therof they are in the danger of his justice for those yet we are out of dowt that they are and but that we do alreadie know that the blindnes of man is very great we could not but woonder that they do not see it Nevertheles such is the mildnes of hir majestie and such is the peaceablenes of these dais of the Gospel so cold are we the most of us al on behalfe of the glorie God that none are executed for any of those though the selfe-same laws that they used against us be forcible against them and if need were might soone be inlarged So notwithstanding that which is done of that kinde we think there might be done much more than there is and yet that no bodie had any just cause to finde fault therwith That certain points of their religion are now made treason that so they cannot suffer as in cause of religion but of high treason it ought not to be so greevous unto them if they consider wel either the very nature of those points that are made treason or but the maner of our proceeding therin For some points of their profession are of the nature as that they are rank treason indeed to al the states that are in the world that have they proper unto themselves of al the religions that are professed on the face of the earth And this treason of theirs that we speak of resteth especially in these two points that the bishop of Rome hath power to depose the princes and potentates of the earth and to place in their roomes whomsoever he wil and that subjects ought not to remain in alleageance to any whom he deposeth but to put on armor against them Which we take to be as rank a treason as wicked an haeresie and as open a way to al confusion as any that ever was heard of before Neither doth it help them any thing if he were indeed as they would have it the vicar general of Christ on the earth for that therby he might do no more keeping within the bounds of his master but only lay their sin to their charge utterly exclude them from hope of salvation princes if they governed il and subjects likewise if they went with their princes against their obedience and dutie to God But as for deposing the one or loosing the other from their alleageance in those points we are sure that they are not only misliked of us but of many others besides that other wais are wel willers of theirs In the maner of proceeding that in this point is used against them there are two points likewise to be noted For first as touching the law it selfe it is in effect but certain ancient statutes that were made long since revived again and not sought unto til that by many naughtie practises and some rebellions open forces and slaughters contrived we were of necessitie rather constrained than easilie induced to take that order and that for the praeservation of the whole both in religion and civile tranquillitie Then also it is very wel known that although they have been never so faultie therin and so have justly deserved to die yet if they can be sorrie for their practising and utterly renounce and abandon the same they stand not in such danger of death by their former demerits as in the hope and way of life by their new repentance if it appeer to be unfeined as wel as their guiltines sufficiently prooved The dealings that they use towards us is first the rigor that they put us unto when time did serve them and yet do where they are able in that they raised up persecution against us in the cause of religion then also their disloial and unnatural practises now to recover their former usurpation again In that persecution of theirs against us we think they then delt and yet do over-hardly with us for that the cause being no greater than it was yet notwithstanding their punishment was exceeding greevous The cause we think was not so great for that cōmonly they persecuted us for nothing else but either for some tradition of their own or else for some thing that went against the earthly estate of the church of Rome either in the commoditie that they supposed to be du unto it or in the superioritie that they had obtained Howbeit neither of these being better cōsidered wil be as we

wel content with either if in other things they have their minds contented Be it therfore that whatsoever their profession be yet shal they have many of those that now are with us to join with them if in this point there be found no lawful impediment or matter to stay them But heer even at the first appeereth a mightie let which is that no man we think can be of that profession unlesse he be under that government too Could their church and court be sundered could their religion and regiment be parted the one from the other then indeed I think that with many much might be done but when as these go so close togither that no man can professe the one but that he must be under the other that goeth as we take it somwhat hard with many that otherwise would finde no scruple at al. And two things there be wherin we think we have very good cause to finde our selves greeved in that respect one that they extend the authoritie therof so far forth as they are woont to do the other that they wil seem to do it upon such ground as they praetend They stretch out their authoritie we think over far first against al those that are in soveraign authoritie in their own several countries or kingdomes then against al other inferior persons generally With princes those that are in highest place in their several states we think they are a great deal to bold both in abasing them so much as they do and that they do so much intermeddle in the government of themselves and their people They abase them we think over far when as they advance themselves above them and make those that are the Lords annointed to do over servile obeisance unto them How much higher than kings and princes and the greatest states of Christendome besides the bishops of Rome have claimed to be and according when opportunitie hath served have taken upon them is a thing so very manifest that I need not to stay therupon especially when as the remembrance therof is such as I think many of themselves are loath to hear of so might be somwhat irksom unto them Again how far they have made the greatest potentates that are not so much to submit as to cast down in most servile and abject maner themselves before them so oft as they were fain to seeke unto them is likewise so commonly known and so bitter withal that they do not much urge us to cal the same to remembrance again In matters of government they meddle too far somtimes at home but especially and cheefly abroad At home they meddle too far in matters of government when as they take upon them more than appertaineth to the office of a bishop over-ruling the states of Italie as they think good inhibiting them to do otherwise than standeth with their pleasure and injoining them to do as they praescribe Abroad we think they intermeddle to far not only when they deal in civile causes but whensoever they meddle with ecclesiastical also by the way of authoritie taking upon them to command But now to keepe only to that wherby they trouble our civile estate we do think they are over greevous and that beyond al aequitie and right both to those that willingly take in good part whatsoever the Pope doth unto them and to those likewise that somtimes use their own libertie For as for those that remain in ful obedience unto him both he frameth them to govern as pleaseth him and besides that he erecteth his own seat above theirs that so there may be a readie way stil to appeal from them unto him and to do in their states whatsoever else he thinketh good As for those that more freely use their own authoritie with them oft times hath he dealt more roughly accursing their persons interdicting their land and arming their own subjects against them With inferior persons yea and with al generally the Pope as we take it dealeth too hardly when either he traileth them so far from home in very cumbersome chargeable and dangerous journeis either in the way of poenance to the holie land to Saint Peters in Rome or to some such like or to follow their sutes in law before him as in many cases he did and yet doth or else at home doth impose upon them those greevous exactions that he is accustomed to do utterly beyond al measure and mean or in those places that are for pastors to set Italians to reape the commoditie that commeth therby that never so much as come at their charge or being of a strange language themselves can do no good when they come there unlesse it be to practise for him Concerning the ground-work wherupon they wil seem to build their doings in al such cases that do we finde in our judgement so very weak that although it be greefe inough to be so pinched by that usurpation as within fresh remembrance we were yet is this no smal increase of the same that they wil needs go about to bear us down that the grounds that they stand on are very sound substantial and firm For by their patience what may we think May any suppose that they themselves are so persuaded Italian heads indeed we finde are of deepe devise but it would greeve the simplest of al to be so very plainly ●lluded in so weightie matters For their grounds they praetend these two things that such authoritie should of right appertain to the bishop of Rome and that accordingly he hath been in possession of it That it should belong unto him somtimes they alledge some reason for it but for the most part authoritie only Their reason is that it is expedient and very needful it should so be But first they should have considered whether it had been possible or not for the whole world to be kept under the soveraign authoritie of any one Their authorities they bring partly out of the word of God but cheefly out of certain councels and fathers For their possessions they alledge Constantines gift and certain practises of their own that have been since of latter time Al which things are so very wel known that I need not but point unto them But are these so firm and substantial groundworks as they would seem to think that they are Let them be of what valu they can be we can hardly be persuaded but that many of those that did first alledge any of these did it for that they were disposed to abuse the simplicitie of many others So we see the force of this inconveniencie to be very sore and we finde no cause to condescend therunto but rather that we are very fowly abused in those causes that are alledged And then what reasons have they so forcible to persuade any to be of their church when as therwithal they must needs be under their court likewise which is so irksome and greevous a thing Vnlesse we