500. yeeres the Church groned vnder the heauy burthen both of heathen Emperours and of hereticall Kings the Visigot Kings in Spaine and the Vandals in Affrica Of whose displeasure the Pope had small reason or cause to stand in any feare beeing so remote from their dominions and no way vnder the lee of their Soueraigntie But let vs come to see what aide the L. Cardinall hath amassed and piled together out of latter histories prouided wee still beare in mind that our question is not of popular tumults nor of the rebellion of subiects making insurrections out of their owne discontented spirits and braine-sicke humors nor of lawfull Excommunications nor of Canonicall censures and reprehensions but onely of a iuridicall sentence of deposition pronounced by the Pope as armed with ordinary and lawfull power to depose against a Soueraigne Prince Now then Exampl 1. pag. 18 Enag hist Eccles lib. 3. cap. 32. The L. Cardinall sets on and giues the first charge with Anastasius the Emperour whom Euphemius Patriarke of Constantinople would neuer acknowledge for Emperour that is to say would neuer consent he should be created Emperour by the helpe of his voice or suffrage except he would first subscribe to the Chalcedon Creed notwithstanding the great Empresse and Senate sought by violent courses and practises to make him yeeld And when afterward the said Emperour contrary to his oath taken played the relaps by falling into his former heresie and became a persecutor he was first admonished and then excommunicated by Symmachus Bishop of Rome To this the L. Cardinall addes that when the said Emperour was minded to choppe the poison of his hereticall assertions into the publique formes of diuine seruice then the people of Constantinople made an vproare against Anastasius their Emperour and one of his Commanders by force of armes constrained him to call backe certaine Bishops whom he had sent into banishment before In this first example the L. Cardinall by his good leaue neither comes close to the question nor falutes it a farre off Euphemius was not Bishop of Rome Anastasius was not deposed by Euphemius the Patriarch onely made no way to the creating of Anastasius The suddaine commotion of the base multitude makes nothing the rebellion of a Greeke Commaunder makes lesse for the authorizing of the Pope to depose a Soueraigne Prince The Greeke Emperour was excommunicated by Pope Symmachus who knowes whether that be trew or forged For the Pope himselfe is the onely witnesse here produced by the L. Cardinall vpon the point and who knowes not how false how suppositious the writings and Epistles of the auncient Popes are iustly esteemmed But graunt it a trewth yet Anasta sius excommunicated by Pope Symmachus is not Anastasius deposed by Pope Symmachus And to make a full answere I say further that excommunication denounced by a forraine Bishop againsta party not beeing within the limits of his iurisdiction or one of his owne flocke was not any barre to the party from the communion of the Church but onely a kind of publication that he the said Bishop in his particular would hold no further communion with any such party For proofe whereof I produce the Canons of the Councils held at Carthage In one of the said Canons it is thus prouided and ordained * Nomecan Affric Can. 77. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 If any Bishop shall wilfully absent himselfe from the vsuall and accustomed Synodes let him not be admitted to the communion of other Churches but let him onely vse the benefit and libertie of his owne Church In an other of the same Canons thus * Can. 81. eiusd Nomo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 If a Bishop shall insinuate himselfe to make a conuciance of his Monasterie and the ordering thereof vnto a Monke of any other Cloister let him be cut off let him be separated from the communion with other Churches and content himselfe to liue in the communion of his owne flocke In the same sense Hilarius Bishop of Poictiers excommunicated Liberius Bishop of Rome for subscribing to the Arrian Confession Anathematibi à me Liberi Faber in frag Hilarij In the same sense Iohn Bishop of Antioch excommunicated Caelestine of Rome and Cyrill of Alexandria Bishops for proceeding to sentence against Nestorius without staying his comming to answere in his owne cause In the same sense likewise Victor Bishop of Rome did cut off all the Bishops of the East not from the communion of their owne flocks but from communion with Victor and the Romane Church What resemblance what agreement what proportion betweene this course of excommunication and that way of vniust fulmination which the Popes of Rome haue vsurped against Kings Examp. 2. but yet certaine long courses of time after that auncient course And this may stand for a full answere likewise to the example of Clotharius This ancient King of the French fearing the censures of Pope Agapetus erected the Territorie of Yuetor vnto the title of a Kingdome by way of satisfaction for murdering of Gualter Lord of Yuetot For this example the L. Cardinall hath ransackt records of 900. yeeres antiquitie and vpward in which times it were no hard piece of worke to shew that Popes would not haue any hand nor so much as a finger in the affaires and acts of the French Kings Gregorie of Tours that liued in the same aage hath recorded many acts of excesse and violent iniuries done against Bishops by their Kings and namely against Praetextatus Bishop of Roan for any of which iniurious prankes then played the Bishop of Rome durst not reprooue the said Kings with due remonstrance But see heere the words of Gregorie himselfe to King Chilperic If any of vs O King shall swarue from the path of Iustice him hast thou power to punish But in case thou shalt at any time transgresse the lines of equitie who shall once touch thee with reproofe To thee wee speake but are neuer heeded and regarded except it be thy pleasure and bee thou not pleased who shall challenge thy greatnesse but hee that iustly challengeth to bee Iustice it selfe The good Bishop notwithstanding these humble remonstrances was but roughly entreated and packt into exile being banished into the Isle of Guernsay But I am not minded to make any deepe search or inquisition into the titles of the Lords of Yuetot whose honourable priuiledges and titles are the most honourable badges and cognizances of their Ancestours and of some remarkeable seruice done to the Crowne of France so farre I take them to differ from a satisfaction for sinne And for the purpose I onely affirme that were the credit of this historie beyond all exception yet makes it nothing to the present question Wherein the power of deposing and not of excommunicating supreme Kings is debated And suppose the King by Charter granted the said priuiledges for feare of Excommunication how is it prooued thereby that Pope Agapetus had lawfull and ordinary power to depriue him of
Vrbanus part was punished for his presumption dispoyled of his estate and kept in prison whereof he makes complaint himselfe in his 19. and 20. Epistles The L. Cardinall besides in my vnderstanding for his Masters honour should haue made no words of interdicting the whole Kingdome For when the Pope to giue a King chastisement doeth interdict his Kingdome hee makes the people to beare the punishment of the Kings offence For during the time of interdiction the Church doores through the whole Kingdome are kept continually shut and lockt vp publike seruice is intermitted in all places bels euery where silent Sacraments not administred to the people bodies of the dead so prostituted and abandoned that none dares burie the said bodies in holy ground More it is beleeued that a man dying vnder the curse of the interdict without some speciall indulgence or priuiledge is for euer damned and adiudged to eternall punishments as one that dyeth out of the communion of the Church Put case then the interdict holdeth and continueth for many yeares together alas how many millions of poore soules are damned and goe to hell for an others offence For what can or what may the faltlesse and innocent people doe withall if the King will repudiate his wife and she yet liuing ioyne himselfe in matrimonie to an other The Lord Cardinall after Philip the 1. produceth Philippus Augustus Examp. 12. who hauing renounced his wife Ingeberga daughter to the King of Denmarke and marrying with Agnes daughter to the Duke of Morauia was by Pope Innocent the third interdicted himselfe and his whole Kingdome But his Lordshippe was not pleased to insert withall what is auerred in the Chronicle of Saint Denis that Pope Caelestinus 3. sent forth two Legats at once vpon this errand Bochel pag. 320 Who being come into the assemblie and generall Council of all the French Prelats became like dumbe dogs that can not barke so as they could not bring the seruice which they had vndertaken to any good passe because they stood in a bodily feare of their owne bydes Not long after the Cardinall of Capua was in the like taking For hee durst not bring the Realme within the limits of the interdict before hee was got out of the limits of the Kingdome The King herewith incensed thrust all the Prelates that had giuen consent vnto these proceedings out of their Sees confiscated their goods c. To the same effect is that which wee reade in Matthew Paris After the Pope had giuen his Maiestie to vnderstand by the Cardinal of Anagnia that his kingdome should be interdicted vnlesse he would be reconciled to the King of England the King returned the Pope this answere that he was not in any sort afraid of the Popes sentence for as much as it could not be grounded vpon any equitie of the cause and added withall that it did no way appertaine vnto the Church of Rome to sentence Kings especially the King of France And this was done saith Iohannes Tilius Register in Court of Parliament of Paris by the counsell of the French Barons Most notable is the example of Philip the faire and hits the bird in the right eye In the yeere 1032. the Pope dispatched the Archbishop of Narbona with mandates into France commanding the King to release the Bishop of Apamia then detained in prison for contumelious words tending to the Kings defamation and spoken to the Kings owne head In very deed this Pope had conceiued a secret grudge and no light displeasure against King Philip before namely because the King had taken vpon him the collation of Benefices and other Ecclesiastical dignities Vpon which occasion the Pope sent letters to the King of this tenour and style Feare God and keepe his Commandements Wee would haue thee know that in Spirituall and Temporall causes thou art subiect vnto our selfe that collating of Benefices and Prebends doeth not in any sort appertaine to thy office and place that in case as keeper of the Spiritualties thou haue the custodie of Benefices and Prebends in thy hand when they become voyd thou shalt by sequestration reserue the fruits of the same to the vse and benefit of the next Incumbents and successors and in case thou hast heretofore collated any we ordaine the said collations to be meerely void and so farre as herein thou hast proceeded to the fact we reuoke the said collations We hold them for hereticks whosoeuer are not of this beliefe A Legate comes to Paris and brings these brauing letters By some of the Kings faithfull seruants they are violently snatched and pulled out of the Legates hands by the Earle of Artois they are cast into the fire The good King answeres the Pope and payes him in as good coyne as he had sent Philip by the grace of God King of the French to Boniface calling and bearing himselfe the Soueraigne Bishop little greeting or none at all May thy exceeding sottishnesse vnderstand that in Temporall causes we are not subiect vnto any mortall and earthly creature that collating of Benefices and Prebends by Regall right appertaineth to our office and place that appropriating their fruits when they become void belongeth to our selfe alone during their vacancie that all collations by vs heretofore made or to bee made hereafter shall stand in force that in the validitie and vertue of the said collations wee will euer couragiously defend and maintaine all Incumbents and possessors of Benefices and Prebends so by vs collated We hold them all for sots and senselesse whosoeuer are not of this beliefe The Pope incensed herewith excommunicates the King but no man dares publish that censure or become bearer thereof The King notwithstanding the said proceedings of the Pope assembles his Prelates Barons and Knights at Paris askes the whole assembly of whom they hold their Fees with al other the Temporalties of the Church They make answere with one voice that in the said matters they disclaime the Pope and know none other Lord beside his Maiestie Meane while the Pope worketh with Germanie and the Low Countreis to stirre them vp against France But Philip sendeth William of Nogaret into Italy William by the direction and aide of Sciarra Columnensis takes the Pope at Anagnia mounts him vpon a leane ill-fauoured iade caries him prisoner to Rome where ouercome with choller anguish and great indignation he takes his last leaue of the Popedome and his life All this notwithstanding the King presently after from the successours of Boniface receiues very ample and gratious Bulls in which the memorie of all the former passages and actions is vtterly abolished Extrauag Meruit Witnesse the Epistle of Clement 5. wherein this King is honoured with praises for a pious and religious Prince and his Kingdome is restored to the former estate In that aage the French Nobilitie caried other maner of spirits then the moderne and present Nobilitie doe I meane those by whom the L. Cardinal was applauded and assisted in his
peccauerit modò semper rationes suorum dictorum modestè reddere paratus sit That is to say Euery man is a lyer yea more vaine then vanity it selfe God onely is trew c. Which seeing wee ought euer humbly to acknowledge in all great and weighty causes most of all ought we to confesse it in the most holy cause of our Faith insomuch as we should not therefore easily condemne euery thing which at the first seemes strange yea false and absurd vnto our eares nor on the contrary side ought wee foorth-with to approoue and that with an opinion of precise necessitie whatsoeuer is commonly receyued especially in matters abstruse and intricate whereof the knowledge is not necessarie to saluation In such poynts as these if any man shall say that such a King or Prince howsoeuer otherwise most godly and religious yea that many such Kings and Princes nay I will not except Bishops or the like Doctors of the Church haue in some sort erred I am of opinion hee shall not giue any iust cause of offence either to the Maiestie of Kings or to the dignitie of Princes and Bishops so as hee bee alwaies ready modestly to yeeld a reason for that which hee shall affirme In which words hee maintaineth two Principles First that euery man is a lyar aswell in matter of Faith as in any thing else and next that wee must not euer esteeme the vulgar opinion and that which is generally receiued in matter of Faith to be the trewest nor alwayes condemne euery opinion for absurd which at the first seemes vnto vs vncouth and new Now we pray you obserue that this man is not accused of small scapes and therefore beeing not charged with lesser peccadillos then those which before wee haue mentioned it necessarily followes that in his excuse hee must vnderstand the same points whereof he is accused And wee hope by the mercy of GOD that no Christian wee speake in this particular as well for the Papists as for our selues shall euer be found to erre in any of those maine points at the least wee will answere by the grace of God for one of those Kings whom he names in general And as for his new opinions which he would so gladly vent abroad the ancient Faith needes not be changed like an old garment either in substance or fashion Furthermore in the third page of his Preface hee vseth these words Sed neque plures vno aliquo semper hîc ditiores sunt Nemo igitur vnus sibi arroget omnia Nec numero plures vni alicui singulare quidquam inuideant Neither are many men alwayes richer in knowledge then some one man Let not therefore any one man arrogate all things to himselfe Nor let the greater multitude enuie a particular man for hauing some singularitie more then his fellowes The trew principle and foundation of the error of the Anabaptists taking away by this meanes all maner of gouernment from the Church For hauing first ouerthrowen the Monarchicall power of the Pope he sweepes away next all manner of power both Aristocraticall and Democraticall from the Church cleane contrary to the Apostles institution which ordeineth that the spirits of the Prophets should bee subiect to the Prophets For if one particular man may take vpon him such a singularitie as this how shall he bee subiect to Generall Nationall and Synodicall Councels For straight will he say vnto them Sirs yee haue no authoritie to iudge mee for I haue a singular gift aboue you all And in the fift Page these are his words Plamssimè enim persuasus sum Serenissimo Regi nunquam in animo fuisse nunquam in animo fore alienae conscientiae quod ne Apostoli quidem sibi vnquam arrogârunt fiue directè fiue indirectè siue per seipsum siue per alios vllatenùs dominari vel fidem nostram vlli humanae authoritati alligare velle For I am absolutely perswaded that it was neuer his Maiesties meaning nor euer will bee either directly or indirectly by himselfe or by others in any sort to ouer-rule another mans conscience which euen the Apostles neuer challenged to themselues nor did or will his Maiestie euer seeke to tie our Faith to any humane authoritie Whereby hee is plainely discouered to bee resolued not to bee subiect in any sort to the iudgement of the Church in those matters whereof hee is accused For hee knowes too well that the ancient Church hath established vpon necessary consequences drawen from the holy Scripture both a forme of beliefe and a forme of speach concerning the holy Mysteries aforesaid And this is the reason why hee will not in these points submit himselfe to the iudgement of any mortall man But vpon this occasion in the seuenth page of his Preface maintaines his Christian libertie in this maner Qui quidem humanas decisiones à Diuinis mysterijs scrupulosé segregem praesertim in audaces Scholarum hypotheses pro Christiana libertate interdum diligentiùs inquiram I who curiously make a separation betwixt the iudgements of men and the Diuine mysteries and especially according to Christian libertie doe sometimes more narrowly looke into the bold supositions of the Schoolemen As if the Schoole Diuines had bene too ventrous to explaine and to defend the Articles aforesaid already so established by the Church But we may trewly wish in that point as Bellarmine did touching Caluin Vtinam semper sic errassent Scholastici Would God the Scholemen had alwayes so erred For in the maine grounds of Christian Religion they are worthy of all commendation Reade Aquinas against the Gentiles But in matters of controuersie where they were to flatter the Pope in his resolutions and to auow the new ordinances and traditions of their Church there they yeelded alas vnto the iniquitie of the time and the mysterie of iniquitie which was euen then in working got likewise the vpper hand ouer them And as for this Christian libertie which he doeth vrge so much certainely he doeth it with no other intention but onely vnder this faire pretext to haue the better meanes and with more safetie to abuse the world For Christian libertie is neuer meant in the holy Scripture but onely in matters indifferent or when it is taken for our deliuerance from the thraldome of the Law or from the burden of humane traditions and in that sense S. Paul speaketh in his Epistle to the Colossians Quare oneraminiritibus Why are ye burdened with traditions But to abuse Christian libertie in presuming to propound a new doctrine vnto the world in point of the highest and holiest mysteries of GOD is a most audacious rashnesse and an impudent arrogancie Concerning which S. Paul saith Though an Angel from heauen preach vnto you otherwise then that which we haue preached vnto you let him bee accursed And Saint Iohn likewise commandeth vs that wee should not so much as say God speed to that man which shall bring vs any other doctrine as wee haue obserued before
excommunication and deposition against the Emperour Henry IIII. after he had enterprised this act without all precedent example after he had filled all Europe with blood this Pope I say sunke downe vnder the weight of his affaires and died as a fugitiue at Salerne ouerwhelmed with discontent and sorrow of heart Here lying at the point of giuing vp the ghoast Sigeb ad an 1085. calling vnto him as it is in Sigebert a certaine Cardinall whom he much fauoured He confesseth to God and Saint Peter and the whole Church that he had beene greatly defectiue in the Pastor all charge committed to his care and that by the Deuils instigation he had kindled the fire of Gods wrath and hatred against mankind Then hee sent his Confessor to the Emperour and to the whole Church to pray for his pardon because hee perceiued that his life was at an end Likewise Cardinall Benno that liued in the said Gregories time doth testifie That so soone as he was risen out of his Chaire to excommunicate the Emperour from his Cathedrall seate by the will of God the said Cathedrall seate new made of strong board or plancke did cracke and cleaue into many pieces or parts to manifest how great and terrible Schismes had beene sowen against the Church of Christ by an excommunication of so dangerous consequence pronounced by the man that had fit Iudge therein Now to bring and alleadge the example of such a man who by attempting an act which neuer any man had the heart of face to attempt before hath condemned all his predecessors of cowardise or at least of ignorance what is it else but euen to send vs to the schoole of mightie robbers and to seeke to correct and reforme ancient vertues by late vices Which Otho Frisingensis calling into his owne priuate consideration Otho Frisingens in vita Hen. 4. lib. 4. cap 31. hee durst freely professe that hee had not reade of any Emperour before this Henry the IIII. excommunicated or driuen out of his Imperiall Throne and Kingdome by the chiefe Bishop of Rome But if this quarrell may be tryed and fought out with weapons of examples I leaue any indifferent reader to iudge what examples ought in the cause to be of chiefest authority and weight whether late examples of Kings deposed by Popes for the most part neuer taking the intended effect or auncient examples of Popes actually and effectually thrust out of their thrones by Emperours and Kings The Emperour Constantius expelled Liberius Bishop of Rome out of the citie banished him as farre as Beroe and placed Foelix in his roome Theo. lib. 2. Hist cap. 16. Indeed Constantius was an Arrian and therein vsed no lesse impious then vniust proceeding Neuerthelesse the auncient Fathers of the Church doe not blame Constantius for his hard and sharpe dealing with a chiefe Bishop ouer whom hee had no lawfull power but onely as an enemie to the Orthodoxe faith and one that raged with extreame rigour of persecution against innocent beleeuers In the raigne of Valentinian the I. and yeare of the Lord 367. Ammia lib. 27 the contention betweene Damasus and Vrcisinus competitors for the Bishopricke filled the citie of Rome with a bloody sedition in which were wickedly and cruelly murdered 137. Decret dist 79. persons To meet with such turbulent actions Honorius made a law extant in the Decreetalls the words whereof be these If it shall happen henceforth by the temeritie of competitors that any two Bishops be elected to the See we straitly charge and command that neither of both shall fit in the said See Platina Sigebertus By vertue of this Law the same Honorius in the yeare 420. expelled Bonifacius and Eulalius competitors and Antipopes out of Rome though not long after he reuoked Bonifacius and setled him in the Papall See Theodoric the Goth King of Italy Anastatint Platina Lib. Pontifi Diaconus sent Iohn Bishop of Rome Embassador to the Emperour Iustinian called him home againe and clapt him vp in the close prison where he starued to death By the same King Peter Bishop of Altine was dispatched to Rome to heare the cause and examine the processe of Pope Symmachus then indited and accused of sundry crimes King Theodatus about the yeare 537. had the seruice of Pope Agapetus as his Embassadour to the Emperour Iustinian vpon a treatie of peace Agapetus dying in the time of that scruice Syluerius is made Bishop by Theodatus Not long after Syluerius is driuen out by Belisarius the Emperour his Lieutenant and sent into banishment After Syluerius next succeedeth Vigilius who with currant coine purchased the Popedome of Belisarius The Emperour Iustinian sends for Vigilius to Constantinople and receiues him there with great honour Soone after the Emperour takes offence at his freenesse in speaking his mind commands him to bee beaten with stripes in manner to death and with a roape about his necke to be drawne through the city like a thiefe as Platina relates the historie Nicephorus in his 26. booke and 17. chapter comes very neere the same relation The Emperour Constantius Platina Baronius Sigeberius in the yeere 654. caused Pope Martin to be bound with chaines and banished him into Chersonesus where he ended his life The Popes in that aage writing to the Emperours vsed none but submissiue tearmes by way of most humble supplications made profession of bowing the knee before their sacred Maiesties and of executing their commaunds with entire obedience payed to the Emperours twenty pound weight of gold for their Inuestiture which tribute was afterward released and remitted Iustin Authent 123. cap. 3. by Constantine the Bearded to Pope Agatho in the yeere 679. as I haue obserued in an other place Nay further euen when the power and riches of the Popes was growne to great height by the most profuse and immense munificence of Charlemayne and Lewis his sonne the Emperours of the West did not relinquish and giue ouer the making and vnmaking of Popes as they saw cause Pope Adrian 1. willingly submitted his necke to this yoke and made this Law to be passed in a Councill that in Charlemayne should rest all right and power for the Popes election and for the gouernement of the Papall See This Constitution is incerted in the Decretals Distinct 63. Can. * Note that in the same Dist the Can of Greg. 4. beginning with Cum Hadrianus 2. is false and supposititious because Gregorie 4. was Pope long before Hadr. 2. Triateterrima monstra Hadrianus and was confirmed by the practise of many yeeres In the yeere of the Lord 963. the Emperour Otho tooke away the Popedome from Iohn 13. and placed Leo 8. in his roume In like maner Iohn 14. Gregory 5. and Siluester 2. were seated in the Papall Throne by the Othos The Emperour Henrie 2. in the yeere 1007. deposed three Popes namely Bendict 9. Siluester 3. and Gregorie 6. whom Platina doeth not sticke to call three most detestable
be more cruel or more voyd of reason then to seeke to stop the strong and violent streame of tyrannie by sedition These words me thinke doe make very strongly and expresly against butchering euen of Tyrannical Kings And whereas a little after the said passage he teacheth to expell Tyrannie he hath not a word of expelling the Tyrant but onely of breaking and shaking off the yoke of Tyrannie Yet for all that he would not haue the remedies for the repressing of Tyrannie to be fetcht from the Pope who presumeth to degrade Kings but from Philosophers Lawyers Diuines and personages of good conuersation It appeareth now by all that hath bin said before that whereas Gerson in the 7. Considerat against Flatterers doeth affirme Whensoeuer the Prince doeth manifestly pursue and prosecute his naturall subiects and shew himselfe obstinately bent with notorious iniustice to vexe them of set purpose and with full consent so farre as to the fact then this rule and law of Nature doeth take place It is lawfull to resist and repell force by force and the sentence of Seneca There is no sacrifice more acceptable to God then a tyrant offered in sacrifice the words doeth take place are so to be vnderstood as he speaketh in another passage to wit with or amongst seditious persons Or else the words doeth take place doe onely signifie is put in practise And so Gerson there speaketh not as out of his owne iudgement His Lordship also should not haue balked and left out Sigebertus who with more reason might haue passed for French then Thomas and Occam whom hee putteth vpon vs for French Sigebertus in his Chronicle vpon the yeere 1088. speaking of the Emperours deposing by the Pope hath words of this tenour This Heresie was not crept out of the shell in those dayes that his Priests who hath said to the King Apostata and maketh an hypocrite to rule for the sinnes of the people should teach the people they owe no subiection vnto wicked Kings nor any alleagiance notwithstanding they haue taken the oath of alleagiance Now after the L. Cardinal hath coursed in this maner through the histories of the last aages which in case they all made for his purpose doe lacke the weight of authority in stead of searching the will of God in the sacred Oracles of his word and standing vpon examples of the ancient Church at last leauing the troupe of his owne allegations he betakes himselfe to the sharpening and rebating of the points of his aduersaries weapons For the purpose he brings in his aduersaries the champions of Kings Crownes makes them to speake out of his own mouth for his Lordship saith it will be obiected after this maner Pag. 52. sequentibus It may come to passe that Popes either caried with passion or misled by sinister information may without iust cause fasten vpon Kings the imputation of heresie or apostasie Then for King-deposers he frames this answere That by heresie they vnderstand notorious heresie and formerly condemned by sentence of the Church Moreouer in case the Pope hath erred in the fact it is the Clergies part adhering to their King to make remonstrances vnto the Pope and to require the cause may be referred to the iudgement of a full Councel the French Church then and there being present Now in this answere the L. Cardinall is of another mind then Bellarmine his brother Cardinall Aduers Barclaium For hee goes thus farre That a Prince condemned by vniust sentence of the Pope ought neuerthelesse to quit his Kingdome and that his Pastors vniust sentence shall not redound to his detriment prouided that hee giue way to the said sentence and shew himselfe not refractarie but stay the time in patience vntil the holy Father shall renounce his error and reuoke his foresaid vniust sentence In which case these two material points are to be presupposed The one That he who now hath seized the kingdome of the Prince displaced wil forthwith if the Pope shall sollicit and intercede returne the Kingdome to the hand of the late possessor The other That in the interim the Prince vniustly deposed shall not need to feare the bloody murderers mercilesse blade and weapon But on the other side the Popes power of so large a size as Bellarmine hath shaped is no whit pleasing to the L. Cardinals eye For in case the King should be vniustly deposed by the Pope not well informed he is not of the minde the Kingdome should stoupe to the Popes behests but will rather haue the Kingdome to deale by remonstrance and to referre the cause vnto the Council Wherein he makes the Council to be of more absolute and supreme authority then the Pope a straine to which the holy father will neuer lend his eare And yet doubtlesse the Council required in this case must be vniuersall wherein the French for so much as they stand firme for the King and his cause can be no Iudges and in that regard the L. Cardinal requireth onely the presence of the French Church Who seeth not here into what pickle the French cause is brought by this meanes The Bishops of Italie forsooth of Spaine of Sicilie of Germanie the subiects of Soueraignes many times at professed or priuie enmitie with France shall haue the cause compremitted and referred to their iudgement whether the Kindome of France shall driue out her Kings and shall kindle the flames of seditious troubles in the very heart and bowels of the Realme But is it not possible that a King may lacke the loue of his owne subiects and they taking the vantage of that occasion may put him to his trumps in his owne Kingdome Is it not possible that calumniations whereby a credulous Pope hath beene seduced may in like maner deceiue some part of a credulous people Is it not possible that one part of the people may cleaue to the Popes Faction another may hold and stand out for the Kings rightfull cause and ciuill warres may be kindled by the splene of these two sides Is it not possible that his Holinesse will not rest in the remonstrances of the French and will no further pursue his cause And whereas now a dayes a Generall Councill cannot be held except it be called and assembled by the Popes authority is it credible the Pope will take order for the conuocation of a Council by whom he shall be iudged And how can the Pope be President in a Councill where himselfe is the party impleaded and to whom the sifting of his owne sentence is referred as it were to Committies to examine whether it was denounced according to Law or against Iustice But in the meane time whilest all these remonstrances and addresses of the Council are on foot behold the Royall Maiestie of the King hangeth as it were by loose gimmals and must stay the iudgement of the Council to whom it is referred Well what if the Councill should happe to be two or three yeeres in assembling and
away of the Primacie of the Apostolique Sea then are they busie about cutting off the very head of the faith and dissoluing of the state of the whole body and of all the members Which selfe same thing S. Leâ—â— â—â—th confirme in his third Sermon of his Assumption to the Popedom when he saith Our Lord had a special care of Peter praied properly for Peters faith as though the state of others were more stable when their Princes mind was not to be ouercome Whereupon himselfe in his Epistle to the bishops of the prouince of Vienna doth not doubt to affirme that he is not partaker of the diuine Mysterie that dare depart from the solidity of Peter who also saith That who thinketh the Primacy to be denied to that Sea he can in no sort lessen the authority of it but by being puft vp with the spirit of his owne pride doth cast himselfe headlong into hel These and many other of this kind I am very sure are most familiar to you who besides many other books haue diligently read ouer the visible Monarchy of your owne Sanders a most diligent writer and one who hath worthily deserued of the Church of England Neither can you be ignorant that these most holy and learned men Iohn bishop of Rochester and Tho. Moore within our memory for this one most weighty head of doctrine led the way to Martyrdome to many others to the exceeding glory of the English nation But I would put you in remembrance that you should take heart and considering the weightines of the cause not to trust too much to your owne iudgement neither be wise aboue that is meet to be wise and if peraduenture your fall haue proceeded not vpon want of consideration but through humane infirmity for feare of punishment and imprisonment yet do not preferre a temporall liberty to the liberty of the glory of the Sonnes of God neither for escaping a light momentanie tribulation lose an eternal weight of glory which tribulation it selfe doeth worke in you You haue fought a good fight a long time you haue wel-neere finished your course so many yeeres haue you kept the faith do not therefore lose the reward of such labors do not depriue your selfe of that crowne of righteousnes which so long agone is prepared for you Do not make the faces of so many yours both brethren and children ashamed Vpon you at this time are fixed the eyes of all the Church yea also you are made a spectacle to the world to Angels to men Do not so carry your selfe in this your last act that you leaue nothing but laments to your friends and ioy to your enemies But rather on the contrary which we assuredly hope and for which we continually powre forth prayers to God display gloriously the banner of faith and make to reioyce the Church which you haue made heauy so shall you not onely merite pardon at Gods hands but a Crowne Farewell Quite you like a man and let your heart be strengthened From Rome the 28. day of September 1607. Your very Reuerendships brother and seruant in Christ Robert Bellarmine Cardinall THE ANSWERE TO THE CARDINALS LETTER ANd now that I am to enter into the field against him by refuting his Letter I must first vse this protestation That no desire of vaine-glory by matching with so learned a man maketh me to vndertake this taske but onely the care and conscience I haue that such smooth Circes charmes and guilded pilles as full of exterior eloquence as of inward vntrewths may not haue that publike passage through the world without an answere whereby my reputation might vniustly be darkened by such cloudie and foggie mists of vntrewths and false imputations the hearts of vnstayed and simple men be misse-led and the trewth it selfe smothered But before I come to the particular answere of this Letter A great mistaking of the state of the Question and case in hand I must here desire the world to wonder with me at the committing of so grosse an errour by so learned a man as that he should haue pained himselfe to haue set downe so elaborate a Letter for the refutation of a quite mistaken question For it appeareth that our English Fugitiues of whose inward societie with him he so greatly vaunteth haue so fast hammered in his head the Oath of Supremacie which hath euer bene so great a scarre vnto them as he thinking by his Letter to haue refuted the last Oath hath in place thereof onely paied the Oath of Supremacie which was most in his head as a man that being earnestly caried in his thoughts vpon another matter then he is presently in doing will often name the matter or person he is thinking of in place of the other thing he hath at that time in hand For as the Oath of Supremacie was deuised for putting a difference betweene Papists and them of our profession so was this Oath The difference betweene the Oath of Supremacie and this of Allegiance which hee would seeme to impugne ordained for making a difference betweene the ciuilly obedient Papists and the peruerse disciples of the Powder-Treason Yet doeth all his Letter runne vpon an Inuectiue against the compulsion of Catholiques to deny the authoritie of S. Peters successors and in place thereof to acknowledge the Successors of King Henry the eight For in K. Henry the eights time was the Oath of Supremacie first made By him were Thomas Moore and Roffensis put to death partly for refusing of it From his time till now haue all the Princes of this land professing this Religion successiuely in effect maintained the same and in that Oath onely is contained the Kings absolute power to be Iudge ouer all persons aswell Ciuill as Ecclesiastical excluding al forraigne powers and Potentates to be Iudges within his dominions whereas this last made Oath containeth no such matter onely medling with the ciuill obedience of Subiects to their Soueraigne in meere temporall causes And that it may the better appeare that whereas by name hee seemeth to condemne the last Oath yet indeed his whole Letter runneth vpon nothing but vpon the condemnation of the Oath of Supremacie I haue here thought good to set downe the said Oath leauing it then to the discretion of euery indifferent reader to iudge whether he doth not in substance onely answere to the Oath of Supremacie but that hee giues the child a wrong name I A B. doe vtterly testifie and declare in my conscience that the Kings Highnesse is the onely Supreame Gouernour of this Realme and all other his Highnesse Dominions and Countries aswell in all Spirituall or Ecclesiasticall things or causes as Temporall And that no forraine Prince Person Prelate State or Potentate hath or ought to haue any Iurisdiction Power Superioritie Preeminence or Authoritie Ecclesiasticall or Spirituall within this Realme And therefore I doe vtterly renounce and forsake all forraine Iurisdictions Powers Superiorities and Authorities and doe promise that from
thereof since those which immediatly follow are so much derogatorie to the diuine Maiestie And againe My 6 Epist 52. writings be strengthened by the authoritie and merit of my Lord most blessed S. Peter We 7 Epist 89. beseech you to keepe the things decreed by vs through the inspiration of God and the Apostle most blessed S. Peter If 8 In serm 2. in die anniuer assum suae any thing be well done or decreed by vs If any thing be obtained of Gods mercy by daily prayers it is to be ascribed to S. Peters workes and merits whose power doeth liue and authoritie excell in his owne Sea Hee 9 Serm. 3. in die anniuer assump suae was so plentifully watered of the very fountaine of all graces that whereas he receiued many things alone yet nothing passeth ouer to any other but hee was partaker of it And in a word hee was so desirous to extoll Saint Peter that a messenger from him was an 10 Epist 24. embassage from Saint Peter 11 Epist 4. any thing done in his presence was in S. Peters presence Neither did he vse all this Rhetoricke without purpose for at that time the Patriarch of Constantinople contended with him for Primacie And in the Councell of 12 Concil Chalceden Act. 16. Can. 28. Chalcedon the Bishops sixe hundred and more gaue equall authoritie to the Patriarch of that Sea and would not admit any Priuiledge to the Sea of Rome aboue him but went against him And yet he that gaue so much to Peter tooke nothing from Caesar but gaue him both his Titles and due giuing the power of calling a Councell to the Emperour as it may appeare by these one or two places following of many If it may please your 13 Epist 9. Theodosie godlinesse to vouchsafe at our supplication to condiscend that you will command a Councell of Bishops to be holden within Italy And writing vnto the Bishop of Constantinople Because the most clement 1 Epist 16. Flan. Emperour carefull of the peace of the Church will haue a Councell to be holden albeit it euidently appeare the matter to be handled doeth in no case stand in neede of a Councell And againe Albeit 2 Epist 17. Theodosie my occasions will not permit me to be present vpon the day of the Councell of Bishops which your godlinesse hath appointed So as by this it may well appeare that hee that gaue so much to Peter gaue also to Caesar his due and prerogatiue But yet he playeth not faire play in this that euen in all these his wrong applied arguments and examples hee produceth no other witnesses but the parties themselues bringing euer the Popes sentences for approbation of their owne authoritie Now indeed for one word of his in the middest of his examples I cannot but greatly commend him that is that Martyrs ought to endure all sorts of tortures and death before they suffer one syllable to be corrupted of the Law of God Which lesson if hee and all the rest of his owne profession would apply to themselues then would not the Sacrament be administred sub vnâ specie directly contrary to Christs institution the practise of the Apostles and of the whole Primitiue Church for many hundred yeeres then would not the priuate Masses be in place of the Lordes Supper then would not the words of the 3 Bellar. de sacra Encharist lib. 4. cap. 14. Canon of the Masse be opposed to the words of S. Paul and S. Luke as our Aduersarie himselfe confesseth and cannot reconcile them nor then would not so many hundreths other traditions of men be set vp in their Church not onely as equall but euen preferred to the word of God But sure in this point I feare I haue mistaken him for I thinke hee doeth not meane by his Diuina Dogmata the word of the God of heauen but onely the Canons and Lawes of his Dominus Deus Papa otherwise all his Primacie of the Apostolike Sea would not be so much sticken vpon hauing so slender ground in the word of God And for the great feare he hath that the suddennes of the apprehension the bitternesse of the persecution the weaknesse of his aage and other such infirmities might haue been the cause of the Arch-priests fall in this I haue already sufficiently answered him hauing declared as the trewth is and as the said Blackwell himselfe will yet testifie that he tooke this Oath freely of himselfe without any inducement thereunto either Precibus or Minis But amongst all his citations Some of Sanders his worthy sayings remembred hee must not forget holy Sanderus and his visibilis Monarchia whose person and actions I did alreadie a little touch And surely who will with vnpartiall eyes reade his bookes they may well thinke that hee hath deserued well of his English Romane-Church but they can neuer thinke but that hee deserued very ill of his English Soueraigne and State Witnesse his owne books whereout I haue made choice to set downe heere these fewe sentences following as flowers pickt out of so worthy a garland 4 Sand de visib Monar lib. 6. cap. 4. Elizabeth Queene of ENGLAND doeth exercise the Priestly acte of teaching and preaching the Gospel in ENGLAND with no lesse authority then Christ himselfe or Moses euer did The supremacie of a 5 Sand de clau Dauid li. 6. c. 1. woman in Church matters is from no other then from the Deuill And of all things in generall thus he speaketh The 1 Sand. de visib Monar lib. 2. cap. 4. King that will not inthrall himselfe to the Popes authoritie be ought not to be tolerated but his Subiects ought to giue all diligence that another may be chosen in his place assoone as may be A King that is an 2 Ibidem Heretike ought to be remooued from the Kingdome that hee holdeth ouer Christians and the Bishops ought to endeauour to set vp another assoone as possibly they can Wee doe constantly 3 Ibidem affirme that all Christian Kings are so farre vnder Bishops and Priests in all matters appertaining to faith that if they shall continue in a fault against Christian Religion after one or two admonitions obstinately for that cause they may and ought to be deposed by the Bishops from their temporall authoritie they holde ouer Christians 4 Ibidem Bishops are set ouer temporall kingdomes if those kingdomes doe submit themselues to the faith of Christ We doe iustly 5 Sand. de clan Dauid li. 5. c. 2. affirme that all Secular power whether Regall or any other is of men The 6 Ibidem anoynting which is powred vpon the head of the King by the Priest doeth declare that hee is inferiour to the Priest It is altogether against the will of 7 Sand. de clan Dauid li. 5. c. 4. Christ that Christian kings should haue supremacie in the Church And whereas for the crowne and
diuers others and fiue strange and as I thinke erroneous points of Doctrine with sundry falsifications of Histories are set downe in a Table by themselues in the end of this my Epistle hauing their Refutation annexed to euery one of them But as for the particular answering of his booke it is both vnnecessary and vncomely for me to make a Reply Vnnecessary because as I haue already told you my Booke is neuer yet answered so farre as belongeth to the maine question anent the Oath of Alleagiance the picking of aduantages vpon the wrong placing of the figures in the citations or such errors in the Print by casuall addition or omission of words that make nothing to the Argument being the greatest weapons wherewith hee assaults my Booke And vncomely it must needs be in my opinion for a King to fall in altercation with a Cardinal at least with one no more nobly descended then he is That Ecclesiasticall dignitie though by the sloath of Princes as I said before it be now come to that height of vsurped honour yet being in the trew originall and foundation thereof nothing else but the title of the Priests and Deacons of the Parish Churches in the towne of Rome at the first the stile of Cardinals being generally giuen to all Priests and Deacons of any Cathedral Church though the multitude of such Cardinal Priests and Deacons resorting to Rome was the cause that after bred the restraining of that title of Cardinall Priests and Deacons onely to the Parish-priests and Deacons of Rome And since that it is S. Gregorie who in his Epistles sixe hundreth yeeres after CHRIST maketh the first mention of Cardinals and so these now Electours of the Apostolike Sea beeing long and many hundreth yeeres vnknowen or vnheard of after the Apostolik aage and yet doeth hee speake of them but in this sence as I haue now described I hope the Cardinall who calleth him the Apostle of England cannot blame mee that am King thereof to acknowledge the Cardinall in no other degree of honour then our said Apostle did But how they should now become to bee so strangely exalted aboue their first originall institution that from Parish-priests and Deacons Priests inferiours they should now come to bee Princes and Peeres to Kings and from a degree vnder Bishops as both 1 Lib. de Clericis cap. 16. Bellarmine and 2 Lib. de Episcopatibus Titulis Diaconijs Cardinalium Onuphrius confesse to bee now the Popes sole Electours supplying with him the place of a Generall Councell whereby the conuening of Generall Councels is now vtterly antiquated and abolished nay out of their number onely the Pope to be elected who claimeth the absolute Superioritie ouer all Kings how this their strange vsurped exaltation I say should thus creepe in and bee suffered it belongeth to all them in our place and calling to looke vnto it who being GOD his Lieutenants in earth haue good reason to bee iealous of such vpstart Princes meane in their originall come to that height by their owne creation and now accounting themselues Kings fellowes But the speciall harme they do vs is by their defrauding vs of our common Christian interest in General Councels they hauing as I said vtterly abolished the same by rolling it vp making as it were a Monopoly thereof in their Conclaue with the Pope Whereas if euer there were a possibilitie to be expected of reducing all Christians to an vniformitie of Religiō it mustcome by the means of a Generall Councel the place of their meeting being chosen so indifferent as all Christian Princes either in their owne Persons or their Deputie Commissioners and all Church-men of Christian profession that beleeue and professe all the ancient grounds of the trew ancient Catholike and Apostolike Faith might haue tutum accessum thereunto All the incendiaries and Nouelist fire-brands on either side being debarred from the same as well Iesuites as Puritanes And therefore hauing resolued not to paine my selfe with making a Replie for these reasons heere specified grounded as well vpon the consideration of the matter as of the person of the Answerer I haue thought good to content my selfe with the reprinting of my Apologie hauing in a manner corrected nothing but the Copiers or Printers faults therein and prefixed this my Epistle of Dedication and Warning thereunto that I may yet see if any thing will be iustly said against it Not doubting but enow of my Subiects will replie vpon these Libellers and answere them sufficiently wishing YOV deepely to consider and weigh your common interest in this Cause For neither in all my Apologie nor in his pretended Refutation thereof is there any question made anent the Popes power ouer mee in particular for the excommunicating or deposing of mee For in my particular the Cardinall doeth mee that grace that hee saith The Pope thought it not expedient at this time to excommunicate mee by name our question being onely generall Whether the Pope may lawfully pretend any temporall power ouer Kings or no That no Church-men can by his rule bee subiect to any Temporall Prince I haue already shewed you And what Obedience any of you may looke for of any of them de facto hee plainely forewarneth you of by the example of Gregory the Great his obedience to the Emperour Mauritius not being ashamed to slaunder that great Personages Christian humilitie and Obedience to the Emperour with the title of a constrained and forced obedience because hee might or durst doe no otherwise Whereby he not onely wrongs the said Gregory in particular but euen doeth by that meanes lay on an heauie slaunder and reproach vpon the Christian humilitie and patience of the whole Primitiue Church especially in the time of persecution if the whole glory of their Martyrdome and Christian patience shall bee thus blotted with that vile glosse of their coacted and constrained suffering because they could or durst doe no otherwise like the patience and obedience of the Iewes or Turkish slaues in our time cleane contrary to Saint Paul and Saint Peters doctrine of obedience for conscience sake Rom. 13.5 1. Pet. 2.13 and as contrary to Tertullians Apologie for Christians and all the protestations of the ancient Fathers in that case But it was good lucke for the ancient Christians in the dayes of Ethnicke Emperours that this prophane and new conceit was then vnknowen among them otherwise they would haue beene vtterly destroyed and rooted out in that time and no man to haue pitied them as most dangerous members in a Common-wealth who would no longer be obedient then till they were furnished with sufficient abilitie and power to resist and rebell Thus may ye see how vpon the one part our Cardinall will haue all Kings and Monarchs to bee the Popes Vassals and yet will not on the other side allow the meanest of the Pope his vassals to be subiect to any Christian Prince But he not thinking it enough to make the
his Crowne Nay doubtlesse it was rather a meanes to eleuate and aduance the dignitie of the Crowne of France and to style the French King a King of Kings as one that was able to giue the qualitie of King to all the rest of the Nobles and Gentry of his Kingdome Doeth not some part of the Spanish Kings greatnesse consist in creating of his great In the next place followeth Gregorie I. Examp. 3. pag. 22. who in the 10. Epistle of the 11. booke confirming the priuiledges of the Hospitall at Augustodunum in Bourgongne prohibiteth all Kings and Prelates whatsoeuer to infringe or diminish the said priuiledges in whole or in part His formall and expresse words bee these If any King Prelate Iudge or any other Secular person informed of this our Constitution shall presume to goe or doe contrary thereunto let him bee cast downe from his power and dignitie I answere the Lord Cardinall heere wrongs himselse very much in taking imprecations for Decrees Might not euen the meanest of the people vse the same tenour of words and say If any shall touch the life or the most sacred Maiestie of our Kings be he Emperour or be he Pope let him bee accursed let him fall from his eminent place of authoritie let him lose his dignitie let him tumble into beggerie diseases and all kindes of calamities I forbeare to shew how easie a matter it is for Monkes to forge titles after their owne humour and to their owne liking for the vpholding and maintaining of their priuiledges As for the purpose the same Gregorie citeth in the end of his Epistles another priuiledge of the like stuffe and stampe to the former granted to the Abbey of S. Medard at Soissons It is fenced with a like clause to the other But of how great vntrewth and of how little weight it is the very date that it beareth makes manifest proofe For it runs Dated the yeere of our Lords Incarnation 593. the 11. Indiction whereas the 10. Indiction agreeth to the yeere 593. Besides it was not Gregories maner to date his Epistles according to the yeere of the Lord. Againe the said priuiledge was signed by the Bishops of Alexandria and Carthage who neuer knew as may well bee thought whether any such Abbey of S. Medard or citie of Soissons was euer built in the world Moreouer they signed in the thickest of a crowd as it were of Italian Bishops Lastly hee that shall reade in this Gregories Epistles with what spirit of reuerence and humilitie he speaketh of Emperours will hardly beleeue that euer hee armed himselfe with authoritie to giue or to take away Kingdomes Hee styles himselfe * Epist 6. l. 3. Ego antem indignus pietatin tuae seruils Ego verò haec Dominis meis Ioquens quid sum nisi pulu is vermis Ibid. Egc quidem iussioni subiectus c. Epist 61. l. 2. The Emperours vnworthie seruant presuming to speake vnto his Lord when he knowes himselfe to bee but dust and a very worme Hee professeth subiection vnto the Emperours commands euen to the publishing of a certaine Law of the Emperours which in his iudgement somewhat iarred and iustled with Gods Law as elsewhere I haue spoken more at large The L. Cardinall next bringeth vpon the stage Iustinian II. Hee Examp. 4. being in some choller with Sergius Bishop of Rome because hee would not fauour the erroneous Synode of Constantinople would haue caused the Bishop to bee apprehended by his Constable Zacharias But by the Romane Militia that is the troupes which the Emperour then had in Italie Zacharias was repulsed and hindered from his deseigne euen with opprobrious and reproachfull termes His Lordship must haue my shallownesse excused if I reach not his intent by this Allegation wherein I see not one word of deposing from the Empire or of any sentence pronounced by the Pope Heere are now 712. yeeres expired after the birth of Iesus Christ in all which long tract of time the L. Cardinal hath not light vpon any instance which might make for his purpose with neuer so little shew For the example of the Emperor Philippicus by the Cardinal alledged next in sequence Examp. 5. belongeth to the yeere 713. And thus lies the historie This Emperour Philippicus Bardanes was a professed enemie to the worshipping of Images and commanded them to be broken in pieces In that very time the Romane Empire was ouerthrowen in the West and sore shaken by the Saracenes in the East Besides those miseries the Emperour was also incumbred with a ciuill and intestine warre The greatest part of Italie was then seized by the Lombards and the Emperour in Italie had nothing left saue onely the Exarchat of Rauenna and the Dutchie of Rome then halfe abandoned by reason of the Emperours want of forces Pope Constantine gripes this occasion whereon to ground his greatnesse and to shake off the yoke of the Emperour his Lord Vndertakes against Philippicus the cause of Images by a Councel declares the Emperour Heretique Prohibites his rescripts or coine to bee receiued and to goe current in Rome Forbids his Imperiall statue to bee set vp in the Temple according to ancient custome The tumult groweth to a height The Pope is principall promoter of the tumult In the heate of the tumult the Exarche of Rauenna loseth his life Here see now the mutinie of a subiect against his Prince to pull from him by force and violence a citie of his Empire But who seeth in all this any sentence of deposition from the Imperiall dignitie Nay the Pope then missed the cushion and was disappointed vtterly of his purpose The citie of Rome stood firme and continued still in their obedience to the Emperour About some 12. yeeres after Exemp 6. the Emperour Leo Isauricus whom the Lord of Perron calleth Iconoclast falles to fight it out at sharpe and to prosecute worshippers of Images with all extremitie Vpon this occasion Pope Gregory 2. then treading in the steps of his predecessor when he perceiued the citie of Rome to be but weakely prouided of men or munition and the Emperour to haue his hands full in other places found such meanes to make the citie rise in rebellious armes against the Emperour that he made himselfe in short time master thereof Thus farre the Lord Cardinall whereunto my answere for satisfaction is that degrading an Emperour from his Imperiall dignitie and reducing a citie to reuolt against her Master that a man at last may carry the piece himselfe and make himselfe Lord thereof are two seuerall actions of speciall difference If the free-hold of the citie had beene conueied to some other by the Pope depriuing the Emperour as proprietarie thereof this example might haue challenged some credit at least in shew but so to inuade the citie to his owne vse and so to seize on the right and authority of another what is it but open rebellion and notorious ambition For it is farre from Ecclesiasticall censure when
more Pope Iulius tooke the Kingdome from the one and gaue it vnto the other the French thereupon resisted the Pope and declared him to be fallen from the Papacie This noble spirit and courage of the French in maintayning the dignitie and honour of their Kings Crownes bred those ancient customes which in the sequence of many aages haue bene obserued and kept in vse This for one That no Legate of the Pope Pag. 26. Nisi de consensu Regis Christianissimi nor any of his rescripts nor mandates are admitted and receiued in France without licence from the King and vnlesse the Legate impart his faculties to the Kings Atturney Generall to be perused and verified in Court of Parliament where they are to be tyed by certaine modifications and restrictions vnto such points as are not derogatorie from the Kings right from the liberties of the Church and from the ordinances of the Kingdome When Cardinal Balua Bochellus contrary to this ancient forme entred France in the yeere 1484. and there without leaue of the King did execute the office speed certaine Acts of the Popes Legate the Court vpon motion made by the Kings Atturney Generall decreed a Commission to be informed against him by two Councellors of the said Court and inhibited his further proceeding to vse any facultie or power of the Popes Legate vpon paine of beeing proclaimed rebell In the yeere 1561. Iohannes Tanquerellus Batchelour in Diuinitie by order of the Court was condemned to make open confession that hee had indiscreetly and rashly without consideration defended this proposition Indiscretè ac inconsideratè The Pope is the Vicar of Christ a Monarke that hath power both Spirituall and Secular and he may depriue Princes which rebell against his commandements of their dignities Doctrinaliter tantum non iuridicè Which proposition howsoeuer he protested that he had propounded the same onely to be argued and not iudicially to be determined in the affirmatiue Tanquerellus neuerthelesse was compelled openly to recant Here the L. Cardinall answeres The historie of Tanquerellus is from the matter because his proposition treateth neither of Heresie nor of Infidelitie but I answere The said proposition treateth of both forasmuch as it maketh mention of disobedience to the Pope For I suppose hee will not denie that whosoeuer shall stand out in Heresie contrary to the Popes monitorie proceedings he shal shew but poore and simple obedience to the Pope Moreouer the case is cleare by the former examples that no Pope will suffer his power to cast downe Kings to be restrained vnto the cause of Heresie and Infidelitie In the heate of the last warres raised by that holy-prophane League admonitory Bulls were sent by Pope Gregorie 14. from Rome Anno 1591. By these Bulls King Henrie 4. as an Heretike and relapse was declared incapable of the Crowne of France and his Kingdome was exposed to hauocke and spoile The Court of Parliament being assembled at Tours the 5. of August decreed the said admonitorie Bulls to bee cancelled torne in pieces and cast into a great fire by the hand of the publike executioner The Arrest it selfe or Decree is of this tenour The Court duely pondering and approouing the concluding and vnanswerable reasons of the Kings Attourney Generall hath declared and by these present doeth declare the admonitorie Bulls giuen at Rome the 1. of March 1591. to be of no validitie abusiue seditious damnable full of impietie and impostures contrary to the holy decrees rights franchises and liberties of the French Church doeth ordeine the Copies of the said Bulls sealed with the seale of Marsilius Landrianus and signed Septilius Lamprius to bee rent in pieces by the publike executioner and by him to be burnt in a great fire to be made for such purpose before the great gates of the common Hall or Palace c. Then euen then the L. of Perron was firme for the better part and stood for his King against Gregorie the Pope notwithstanding the crime of eresie pretended against Henrie his Lord. All the former examples by vs alledged are drawen out of the times after Schooles of Diuinitie were established in France For I thought good to bound my selfe within those dooles and limits of time which the L. Cardinal himselfe hath set Who goeth not sincerely to worke and in good earnest where he telleth vs there be three instances as if wee had no more obiected against Papall power to remooue Kings out of their chaires of State Page 47. by name the example of Philip the Faire of Lewis XII and of Tanquerellus For in very trewth all the former examples by vs produced are no lesse pregnant and euident howsoeuer the L. Cardinall hath bene pleased to conceale them all for feare of hurting his cause Nay France euen in the dayes of her sorest seruitude was neuer vnfurnished of great Diuines by whom this vsurped power of the Pope ouer the Temporalties and Crownes of Kings hath beene vtterly misliked and condemned Robert Earle of Flanders was commanded by Pope Paschal 2. to persecute with fire and sword the Clergie of Liege who then adhered and stood to the cause of the Emperour Henrie 4. whom the Pope had ignominiously deposed Robert by the Popes order and command was to handle the Clergie of Liege in like sort as before hee had serued the Clergie of Cambray who by the said Earle had beene cruelly stript both of goods and life The Pope promised the said Earle and his army pardon of their sinnes for the said execution The Clergie of Liege addressed answere to the Pope at large They cried out vpon the Church of Rome and called her Babylon Told the Pope home that God had commanded to giue vnto Caesar that which is Caesars that euery soule must bee subiect vnto the superiour powers that no man is exempted out of this precept and that euery oath of alleagiance is to be kept inuiolable yea that hereof they themselues are not ignorant in as much as they by a new Schisme and new traditions making a separation and rent of the Priesthood from the Kingdome doe promise to absolue of periurie such as haue perfidiously forsworne themselues against their King And whereas by way of despight and in opprobrious maner they were excommunicated by the Pope they gaue his Holinesse to vnderstand that Dauids heart had vttered a good matter but Paschals heart had spewed vp sordid and railing words like old bawdes and spinsters or websters of linnen when they scold and brawle one with another Finally they reiected his Papal excommunication as a sentence giuen without discretion This was the voyce and free speach of that Clergie in the life time of their noble Emperour But after hee was thrust out of the Empire by the rebellion of his owne sonne instigated and stirred vp thereunto by the Popes perswasion and practise and was brought vnto a miserable death it is no matter of wonder that for the safegard of their life
the words added by Almainus to contradict and crosse the words going before For Almainus makes this addition and supply Howsoeuer some other Doctors doe stand for the negatiue and teach the Pope hath power onely to declare that Kings and Princes are to be deposed And so much appeareth by this reason because this ample and Soueraigne power of the Pope might giue him occasion to be puft vp with great pride and the same fulnesse of power might prooue extreamely hurtfull to the subiects c. The same Almainus brings in Occams opinion in expresse tearmes deciding the question Quaest 2. de potest Eccl. Laic cap. 12. and there ioynes his owne opinion with Occams The Doctors opinion saith Almainus doeth simply carrie the most probabilitie that a Pope hath no power neither by excommunication nor by any other meanes to depose a Prince from his Imperiall and Royall dignitie In cap. 9 10. 11. And a little before hauing maintained the Greeke Empire was neuer transported by the Pope to the Germaines and that when the Pope crownes the Emperour he doeth not giue him the Empire no more then the Archbishop of Reims when he crownes the King of France doth giue him the kingdom he drawes this conclusion according to Occams opinion I denie that an Emperour is bound by oath to promise the Pope allegiance On the other side if the Pope hold any Temporall possessions hee is bound to sweare allegiance vnto the Emperour and to pay him tribute The said Occam alledged by Almainus doeth further auerre that Iustinian was acknowledged by the Pope for his superiour in Temporall causes for as much as diuers Lawes which the Pope is bound to keepe and obserue were enacted by Iustinian as by name the Law of prescription for an hundred yeeres which Law standeth yet in force against the Bishop of Rome And to the end that all men may clearely see how great distance there is betweene Occams opinion and the L. Cardinals who towards the end of his Oration exhorts his hearers at no hand to dissent from the Pope take you here a view of Occams owne words as they are alledged by Almainus The Doctour assoyles the arguments of Pope Innocent Quest. 1. cap. 14. by which the Pope would prooue out of these words of CHRIST Whatsoeuer thoushalt binde c. that fulnesse of power in Temporall matters belongeth to the Soueraigne Bishop For Innocent saith Whatsoeuer excepteth nothing But Occam assoyles Innocents authoritie as not onely false but also hereticall and saith withall that many things are spoken by Innocent which by his leaue sauour and smell of herefie c. The L. Pag. 40. Cardinall with lesse fidelitie alledgeth two places out of Thomas his Summe The first in the second of his second Quest 10. Art 10. in the body of the Article In which place let it bee narrowly examined Thomas will easily bee found to speake not of the subiection of beleeuing Subiects vnder Infidel Kings as the Lord Cardinall pretendeth but of beleeuing seruants that liue vnder Masters whether Iewes or Infidels As when a Iew keepeth seruants which professe Iesus Christ or as when some of the faithfull kept in Caesars house who are not considered by Thomas as they were subiects of the Empire but as they were seruants of the family The other place is taken out of Quest 11. and 2. Art in the body of the article where no such matter as the L. Cardinal alledgeth can be found With like fidelitie he taketh Gerson in hand Pag. 44. who indeed in his booke of Ecclesiasticall power and 12. Consider doeth affirme When the abuse of Secular power redoundeth to manifest impugning of the faith and blaspheming of the Creator then shall it not bee amisse to haue recourse vnto the last branch of this 12. Consider where in such case as aforesaid a certaine regitiue directiue regulatiue and ordinatiue authoritie is committed to the Ecclesiasticall power His very words which make no mention at all of deposing or of any compulsiue power ouer Soueraigne Princes For that forme of rule and gouernment whereof Gerson speaketh is exercised by Ecclesiasticall censures and excommunications not by losse of goods of Kingdomes or of Empires This place then is wrested by the L. Cardinall to a contrary sense Neither should his Lordship haue omitted that Gerson in the question of Kings subiection in Temporall matters or of the dependance of their Crownes vpon the Popes power excepteth alwayes the King of France witnesse that which Gerson a little before the place alleadged by the Cardinall hath plainely affirmed Now since Peters time saith Gerson all Imperiall Regall and Secular power is not immediatly to draw vertue and strength from the Soueraigne Bishop as in this maner the most Christian King of France hath no Superiour nor acknowledgeth any such vpon the face of the earth Now here need no great sharpenesse of wit for the searching out of this deepe mysterie that if the Pope hath power to giue or take away Crownes for any cause or any pretended occasion whatsoeuer the Crowne of France must needs depend vpon the Pope But for as much as we are now hit in with Gerson Pag. 108.109.119 where the Card. takes Char. 7. for Charl. 6. we will examine the L. Cardinals allegations towards the end of his Oration taken out of Gersons famous Oration made before Charles the 6. for the Vniuersitie of Paris where he brings in Gerson to affirme That killing a Tyrant is a sacrifice acceptable to God But Gerson let it be diligently noted there speaketh not in his owne person he there brings in sedition speaking the words Of which wordes vttered by sedition and other like speeches you shall now heare what iudgement Gerson himselfe hath giuen When sedition had spoken with such a furious voyce I turned away my face as if I had bene smitten with death to shew that I was not able to endure her madnesse any longer And indeed when dissimulation on the one side and sedition on the other had suggested the deuises of two contrary extremes hee brings foorth Discretion as a Iudge keeping the meane betweene both extremes and vttering those words which the L. Cardinall alledgeth against himselfe If the head saith Gerson or some other member of the ciuill body should grow to so desperate a passe that it would gulpe and swallow downe the deadly poyson of tyrannie euery member in his place with all power possible for him to raise by expedient meanes and such as might preuent a greater inconuenience should set himselfe against so madde a purpose and so deadly practise For if the head be grieued with some light paine it is not fit for the hand to smite the head no that were but a foolish and a mad part Nor is the hand forthwith to chop off or separate the head from the body but rather to cure the head with good speach and other meanes like a skilfull and wise Physitian Yea nothing would
to seeke out newe cities and to disconer newe nations ouer whom to beare Soueraigne sway and rule there had remained more enemies to the State then subiects and friends Cypr. cont Demetr Cyprian also against Demetrianus None of vs all howsoeuer we are a people mighty and without number haue made resistance against any of your vniust and wrongfull actions executed with all violence neither haue sought by rebellious armes or by any other sinister practises to crie quittance with you at any time for the righting of our selues Certaine it is that vnder Iulianus the whole Empire in a manner professed the Christian Religion yea that his Leiftenants and great Commanders as Iouinianus and Valentinianus by name professed Christ Which two Princes not long after attained to the Imperiall dignitie but might haue solicited the Pope sooner to degrade Iulianus from the Imperiall Throne For say that Iulians whole army had renounced the Christian Religion as the L. Cardinall against all shew and appearance of trewth would beare vs in hand and contrary to the generall voice of the said whole army making this profession with one consent when Iulian was dead Socr. lib 3. cap 19. Theod. lib. 4. cap. 1. Sozom. lib. 6. cap. 1. Wee are all Christians yet Italie then persisting in the faith of Christ and the army of Iulian then lying quartered in Persia the vtmost limit of the Empire to the East the Bishop of Rome had fit opporunitie to draw the sword of his authoritie if hee had then any such sword hanging at his Pontificall side to make Iulian feele the sharpe edge of his weapon and thereby to pull him downe from the stately pearch of the Romane Empire I say moreouer that by this generall and sudden profession of the whole Caesarian armie Wee are all Christians it is clearely testified that if his armie or souldiers were then addicted to Paganisme it was wrought by compulsion and cleane contrary to their setled perswasion before and then it followes that with greater patience they would haue borne the deposing of Iulian then if hee had suffered them to vse the libertie of their conscience To bee short in the matter S. Augustine makes all whole and by his testimony doth euince that Iulians armie perseuered in the faith of Christ August in Psal 124. The souldiers of Christ serued a Heathen Emperour But when the cause of Christ was called in question they acknowledged none but Christ in heauen When the Emperor would haue them to serue and to perfume his idols with frankincense they gaue obedience to God rather then to the Emperour After which words Page 82. the very same words alleadged by the L. Cardinall against himselfe doe follow They did then distinguish betweene the Lord Eternal and the Lord temporall neuerthelesse they were subiect vnto the Lord temporall for the Lord Eternall It was therefore to pay God his duetie of obedience and not for feare to incense the Emperour or to draw persecution vpon the Church as the L. Cardinal would make vs beleeue that Christians of the Primitiue Church and Bishops by their censures durst not anger and prouoke their Emperours But his Lordship by his coloured pretences doeth manifestly prouoke and stirre vp the people to rebellion so soone as they know their own strength to beare out a rebellious practise Whereupon it followes that in case their conspiracie shall take no good effect all the blame and fault must lie not in their disloyalty and treason but in the bad choice of their times for the best aduantage and in the want of taking a trew sight of their owne weakenesse Let stirring spirits be trained vp in such practicall precepts let desperate wits be seasoned with such rules of discipline and what need we or how can wee wonder they contriue Powder-conspiracies and practise the damnable art of parricides After Iulian his Lordship falles vpon Valentinian the younger who maintaining Arrianisme with great and open violence might haue bene deposed by the Christians from his Empire and yet say wee they neuer dream'd of any such practise Heere the L. Cardinall maketh answere Pag. 82. The Christians mooued with respect vnto the fresh memory both of the brother and father as also vnto the weake estate of the sonnes young yeeres abstained from all counsels and courses of sharper effect and operation To which answere I replie these are but friuolous coniectures deuised and framed to ticle his owne fancie For had Valentinianus the younger beene the sonne of an Arrian and had then also attained to threescore yeeres of aage they would neuer haue borne themselues in other fashion then they did towards their Emperour Then the Cardinall goeth on The people would not abandon the factious and seditious party but were so firme or obstinate rather for the faction that Valentinian for feare of the tumultuous vproares was constrained to giue way and was threatened by the souldiers that except hee would adhere vnto the Catholikes they would yeeld him no assistance nor stand for his partie Now this answere of the L. Cardinall makes nothing to the purpose concerning the Popes power to pull downe Kings from their stately nest Let vs take notice of his proper consequence Valentinian was afraid of the popular tumult at Milan the Pope therefore hath power to curbe Hereticall Kings by deposition Now marke what distance is betweene Rome and Milan what difference betweene the people of Milan and the Bishop of Rome betweene a popular tumult and a iudicatorie sentence betweene fact and right things done by the people or souldiers of Milan and things to be done according to right and law by the Bishop of Rome the same distance the same difference if not farre greater is betweene the L. Cardinals antecedent and his consequent betweene his reason and the maine cause or argument which we haue in hand The mad commotion of the people was not heere so much to bee regarded as the sad instruction of the Pastour of their good and godly Pastour S. Ambrose so farre from hartening the people of Milan to rebel that being Bishop of Milan he offered himselfe to suffer Martydome If the Emperour abuse his Imperiall authority for so Theodoret hath recited his words to tyrannize thereby heere am I ready to suffer death And what resistance he made against his L. Emperor was onely by way of supplication in these termes Wee beseech thee O Augustus as humble suppliants we offer no resistance we are not in feare but we flie to supplication Epist. lib. 5. Epist 33. Againe If my patrimony be your marke enter vpon my patrimony if my body I wil goe and meet my torments Shall I be drag'd to prison or to death Epist lib. 5. I will take delight in both Item in his Oration to Auxentius I can afflict my soule with sorrow I can lament I can send forth grieuous groanes My weapons against either of both souldiers or Goths are teares A Priest hath none
other weapons of defence I neither can resist nor ought in any other maner to make resistance Iustinian the Emperour in his old aage fell into the heresie of the Aphthartodocites Against Iustinian though few they were that fauoured him in that heresie the Bishop of Rome neuer darted with violence any sentence of excommunication interdiction or deposition The Ostrogot Kings in Italie the Visigot in Spaine the Vandal in Africa were all addicted to the Arrian impietie and some of them cruelly persecuted the trew professours The Visigot and Vandall were no neighbours to Italie The Pope thereby had the lesse cause to feare the stings of those waspes if they had bene angred The Pope for all that neuer had the humour to wrestle or iustle with any of the said Kings in the cause of deposing them from their Thrones But especially the times when the Vandals in Affricke and the Goths in Italie by Belisarius and Narses professours of the Orthodoxe Faith were tyred with long warres and at last were vtterly defeated in bloody battels are to bee considered Then were the times or neuer for the Pope to vnsheath his weapons and to vncase his arrowes of deposition then were the times to draw them out of his quiuer and to shoot at all such Arrian heads then were the times by dispensations to release their subiects of their oathes by that peremptorie meanes to aide and strengthen the Catholique cause But in that aage the said weapons were not knowne to haue bene hammered in the Pontificall forge Gregorie the I. made his boasts that he was able to ruine the Lombards for many yeeres together sworne enemies to the Bishops of Rome their state present and the hope of all their future prosperitie But he telleth vs that by the feare of God before his eyes and in his heart he was bridled and restrained from any such intent as elsewhere we haue obserued In Apol. pro iuram fidel His owne words lib. 7. Epist. 1. If I would haue medled with practising and procuring the death of the Lombards the whole nation of the Lombards at this day had bene robbed of their Kings Dukes Earles they had bene reduced to the tearmes of extreame confusion He might at least haue deposed their King if the credit of the L. Cardinals iudgement be currant without polluting or stayning his owne conscience What can we tearme this assertion of the L. Cardinal but open charging the most ancient Bishops of Rome with crueltie when they would not succour the Church of CHRIST oppressed by tyrants whose oppression they had power to represse by deposing the oppressors Is it credible that IESVS CHRIST hath giuen a Commission to S. Peter and his successors for so many aages without any power to execute their Commission or to make any vse thereof by practise Is it credible that hee hath giuen them a sword to bee kept in the scabbard without drawing once in a thousand yeeres Is it credible that in the times when Popes were most deboshed abandoning themselues to all sorts of corrupt and vitious courses as is testified by their owne flatterers and best affected seruants is it credible that in those times they began to vnderstand the vertue strength of their Commission For if either feare or lacke of power was the cause of holding their hands and voluntarie binding of themselues to the Peace or good behauiour wherefore is not some one Pope at least produced who hath complained that he was hindered from executing the power that CHRIST had conferred vpon his Pontificall See Wherefore is not some one of the ancient and holy Fathers alledged by whom the Pope hath bene aduised and exhorted to take courage to stand vpon he vigor and sinewes of his Papall Office to vnsheath and vncase his bolts of thunder against vngodly Princes and grieuous enemies to the Church wherefore liuing vnder Christian and gracious Emperours haue they not made knowne the reasons why they were hindred from drawing the pretended sword lest long custome of not vsing the sword so many aages might make it so to rust in the scabbard that when there should be occasion to vse the said sword it could not be drawne at all and lest so long custome of not vsing the same should confirme prescription to their greater preiudice If weakenesse be a iust let how is it come to passe that Popes haue enterprised to depose Philip the Faire Lewis the XII and ELIZABETH my predecessor of happy memorie to let passe others in whom experience hath well proued how great inequalitie was betweene their strengths Yea for the most part from thence grow most grieuous troubles and warres which iustly recoile and light vpon his owne head as happened to Gregorie the VII and Boniface the VIII This no doubt is the reason wherefore the Pope neuer sets in for feare of such inconueniences to blast a King with lightning and thunder of deposition but when hee perceiues the troubled waters of the Kingdome by some strong faction setled in his Estate or when the King is confined and bordered by some Princemore potent who thirsteth after the prey and is euer gaping for some occasion to picke a quarrell The King standing in such estate is it not as easie for the Pope to pull him downe as it is for a man with one hand to thrust downe a tottering wall when the groundsill is rotten the studdes vnpind and nodding or bending towards the ground But if the King shall beare downe and breake the faction within the Realme if hee shall get withall the vpper hand of his enemies out of the Kingdome then the holy Father presents him with pardons neuer sued for neuer asked and in afathers indulgence forsooth giues him leaue still to hold the Kingdome that hee was not able by all his force to wrest and wring out of his hand no more then the club of Hercules out of his fist How many worthy Princes incensed by the Pope to conspire against Soueraigne Lords their Masters and by open rebellion to worke some change in their Estates haue miscarried in the action with losse of life or honour or both For example Rodulphus Duke of Sueuia was eg'd on by the Pope against Henry IIII. of that name Emperour How many massacres how many desolations of Cities and townes how many bloody battels ensued thereupon Let histories bee searched let iust accompts be taken and beside sieges layde to Cities it will appeare by trew computation that Henry the IIII. and Frederic the fist fought aboue threescore battels in defence of their owne right against enemies of the Empire stirred vp to armes by the Pope of Rome How much Christian blood was then spilt in these bloody battels it passeth mans wit penne or tongue to expresse And to giue a little touch vnto matters at home doeth not his Holinesse vnderstand right well the weakenesse of Papists in my Kingdome Doeth not his Holmesse neuerthesesse animate my Papists to rebellion and forbid my Papists to take
the Oath of Allegiance Doeth not his Holinesse by this meanes draw so much as in him lyeth persecution vpon the backes of my Papists as vpon rebels and expose their life as it were vpon the open stall to be sold at a very easie price All these examples either ioynt or seuerall are manifest and euident proofes that feare to draw mischiefe and persecution vpon the Church hath not barred the Popes from thundering against Emperours and Kings whensoeuer they conceiued any hope by their fulminations to aduance their greatnesse Last of all I referre the matter to the most possessed with preiudice euen the very aduersaries whether this doctrine by which people are trained vp in subiection vnto Infidel or hereticall Kings vntill the subiects be of sufficient strength to mate their Kings to expell their Kings and to depose them from their Kingdomes doth not incense the Turkish Emperours and other Infidell Princes to roote out all the Christians that drawe in their yoke as people that waite onely for a fit occasion to rebell and to take themselues ingaged for obedience to their Lords onely by constraint and seruile feare Let vs therefore now conclude with Ozius in that famous Epistle speaking to Constantius an Arrian heretike Apud Athanâ—in Eâ—â—st ad solitâ—â— vitam aâ—gentes As hee that by secret practise or open violence would bereaue thee of thy Empire should violate Gods ordinance so bee thou touched with feare least by vsurping authoritie ouer Church matters thou tumble not headlong into some hainous crime Where this holy Bishop hath not vouchsafed to insert and mention the L. Cardinals exception to wit the right of the Church alwaies excepted and saued when she shall be of sufficient strength to shake off the yoke of Emperours Neither speaks the same holy Bishop of priuate persons alone or men of some particular condition and calling but hee setteth downe a generall rule for all degrees neuer to impeach Imperiall Maiestie vpon any pretext whatsoeuer As his Lordships first reason drawne from weakenesse is exceeding weake so is that which the L. Cardinall takes vp in the next place The 2. reas Pag. 77. He telleth vs there is very great difference betweene Pagan Emperours and Christian Princes Pagan Emperours who neuer did homage to Christ who neuer were by their subiects receiued with condition to acknowledge perpetuall subiection vnto the Empire of Christ who neuer were bound by oath and mutuall contract betweene Prince and subiect Christian Princes who slide backe by Apostasie degenerate by Arrianisme or fall away by Mahometisme Touching the latter of these two as his Lordshippe saith If they shall as it were take an oath and make a vowe contrary to their first oath and vow made and taken when they were installed and contrary to the condition vnder which they receiued the Scepter of their Fathers if they withall shall turne persecutors of the Catholike religion touching these I say the L. Cardinal holds that without question they may bee remooued from their Kingdomes He telleth vs not by whom but euery where he meaneth by the Pope Touching Kings deposed by the Pope vnder pretence of stupidity as Childeric or of matrimoniall causes as Philip I. or for collating of benefices as Philip the Faire not one word By that point he easily glideth and shuffles it vp in silence for feare of distasting the Pope on the one side or his auditors on the other Now in alledging this reason his Lordship makes all the world a witnes that in deposing of Kings the Pope hath no eye of regard to the benefit and securitie of the Church For such Princes as neuer suckt other milke then that of Infidelitie and persecution of Religion are no lesse noisome and pernicious vermin to the Church then if they had sucked of the Churches breasts And as for the greatnesse of the sinne or offence it seemes to me there is very little difference in the matter For a Prince that neuer did sweare any religious obedience to Iesus Christ is bound no lesse to such obedience then if he had taken a solemne oath As the sonne that rebelliously stands vp against his father is in equall degree of sinne whether he hath sworne or not sworne obedience to his father because he is bound to such obedience not by any voluntarie contract or couenant but by the law of Nature The commaundement of God to kisse the Sonne whom the Father hath confirmed and ratified King of Kings doeth equally bind all Kings as well Pagans as Christians On the other side who denies who doubts that Constantius Emperour at his first steppe or entrance into the Empire did not sweare and bind himselfe by solemne vowe to keepe the rules and to maintaine the precepts of the Orthodox faith or that he did not receiue his fathers Empire vpon such condition This notwithstanding the Bishop of Rome pulled not Constantius from his Imperiall throne but Constantius remooued the Bishop of Rome from his Papall See And were it so that an oath taken by a King at his consecration and after violated is a sufficient cause for the Pope to depose an Apostate or hereticall Prince then by good consequence the Pope may in like sort depose a King who beeing neither dead in Apostasie nor sicke of Heresie doeth neglect onely the due administration of iustice to his loyall subiects For his oath taken at consecration importeth likewise that he shall minister iustice to his people A point wherein the holy Father is held short by the L. Cardinall who dares prescribe new lawes to the Pope and presumes to limit his fulnesse of power within certaine meeres and head-lands extending the Popes power only to the deposing of Christian Kings when they turne Apostats forsaking the Catholike faith and not such Princes as neuer breathed any thing but pure Paganisme and neuer serued vnder the colours of Iesus Christ Meane while his Lordship forgets that King Attabaliba was deposed by the Pope from his Kingdome of Peru and the said Kingdome was conferred vpon the King of Spaine though the said poore King of Peru neuer forsooke his heathen superstition and though the turning of him out of his terrestriall Kingdome was no way to conuert him vnto the faith of Christ Pag. 77. Yea his Lordship a little after telleth vs himselfe that Be the Turkes possession in the conquests that he maketh ouer Christians neuer so auncient yet by no long tract of time whatsoeuer can he gaine so much as a thumbes breadth of prescription that is to say the Turke for all that is but a disseisor one that violently and wilfully keeps an other man from his owne and by good right may be dispossessed of the same whereas notwithstanding the Turkish Emperours neuer fauoured nor sauoured Christianitie Let vs runne ouer the examples of Kings whom the Pope hath dared and presumed to depose and hardly will any one be found of whom it may be trewly auouched that he hath taken an oath