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A01335 Tvvo treatises written against the papistes the one being an answere of the Christian Protestant to the proud challenge of a popish Catholicke: the other a confutation of the popish churches doctrine touching purgatory & prayers for the dead: by William Fulke Doctor in diuinitie. Fulke, William, 1538-1589.; Allen, William, 1532-1594. Defense and declaration of the Catholike Churches doctrine, touching purgatory, and prayers for the soules departed.; Albin de Valsergues, Jean d', d. 1566. Notable discourse. 1577 (1577) STC 11458; ESTC S102742 447,814 588

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successions did euer chuse out for the warrant of their faith from amongest the reste the Roman Seate And now when there is no apostolike Church left in the whole worlde but it that they will seeke to Churchies whereof there is neither certainty nor succession when by plaine open dealing we may reduce and must needes referre our faith to that which was euer of all other most farre from falshoodde 3 Euery man in the primitiue Church compted the springe of his faith more pure if he coulde deriue it out of the holy Scriptures and shew the continuance thereof in any of the Apostolicke Churches whereof Rome was but one And condemned all heresies of nouelty or later string which coulde not bring the first author of their heresies eyther from any of the Apostles or apostolicke men which cōtinued in the doctrine of the Apostles as Tertullian doth in that booke De praescriptionibus aduersus haereses The like doth Irenaeus And that these men specially named the Church of Rome it was because the Church of Rome at that time as it was founded by the Apostles so it continued in the doctrine of the Apostles And these heretikes for the most parte had bene sometimes of the Church of Rome as Valentinus Marcion Nouatus But none of these fathers as M. Allen woulde haue it appeare was such a sclaue to the Church of Rome that what so euer pleased the Byshoppes of that Sea they were ready to accept For then woulde not Irenaeus so sharpely haue reproued Victor as Eusebius declareth of him Lib. 5. cap. 25. Cyprian woulde not haue taken vp Cornelius and Stephanus as appeareth by his epistles Hieronym woulde not haue bene so bolde to call Rome the purple whore of Babylon Praefat. ad Paulinū in lib. Didym Nor to compare the bishoppe of Eugubium with the bishop of Rome Euagrio nor to make the Church of England equall with the Church of Rome Nec iam altera Romanae vrbis ecclesia altera totius orbis existimanda est Et Gallia Britania Africa Bersis Oriens Indiae omnes barbarae nationes vnum Christum adorant vnam obseruant regulam veritatis Si authoritas quaeritur orbis maior est vrbe Neither must we thinke that there is one Church of the citye of Rome an other of all the worlde beside Both France and Britayne and Africa and Persia and the Easte and India and all barbarous nations worship one Christ keepe one rule of trueth If authoritie be sought the world is greater then one citye c. Loe Syr here is a Church and christianity and a rule of trueth with out the byshoppe of Rome with out the Church of Rome yea and contrary to the church of Rome For to them that alleged the custome of the church of Rome he sayth Quid mihi profers vnius vrbis cōsuetudinem what bring you me the custome of one citye and Augustine him selfe that knwe so well to fetch an heretike ouer the coles I trowe fetched Zosimus Bonifacius and Coelestinus byshoppes of Rome meetly well ouer the coles when he and his fellowes the byshoppes of Africa tooke them with plaine forgerie and falsification of the canons of the councell of Nice Consilio Milebitano Africano As for that which M. Allen compteth so strange is for lacke of skill and right iudgement For the same cause that moued those auncient fathers to appeale to the iudgment of the church of Rome moueth vs now to condemne the church of Rome of heresie wherefore did they reuerence the church of Rome Aske Tertullian he aunswereth because it had by succession reteined euen vntill his dayes that faith which it did first receiue of the Apostles Therefore it was a true Church therefore it was an apostolicke Church which because it doth not nowe neither hath done of many yeares and hath nothing to boast of but the empty names of many good bishops but thrise as many more of cursed Antichristes therefore it is nowe a false church and a company of heretikes departed from the auncient Romaines true and apostolicke faith 4 Bring my faith once to S. Gregory and the very streame shall driue me to S. Peter and Paule maugre all their beardes In which ordre of Byshops finde me one that set forth by decree any practise of contrary doctrine to that which his next predecessor did before him mainteine I will go seeke with the stray a newe mother Church to founde my faith vpon If all be in this succession salfe and sounde what a folly were it to forsake our owne mother and spring of our belefe to seeke other which haue often erred when they stoode and nowe be almost wholy decaide But yet it is wisedome for false teachers with all force to flie from so greate light as maye arise to the trueth by the recognising of that sounde succession and going the iuste contrary way from the olde doctors faith it is not to be thought straunge that they directly seeke to ouerthrowe that bulwarcke which they euer leaned vnto in the stormes of schisme and heresie The shrewes do knowe full well the might of trueth in that Seate and succession to haue beaten downe all their forefathers the heretikes of all agies They feare their fall whose steppes they follow They vtter much malice torment them selfe in euery sermon in vaine that Church feeleth no sore but in sorow of compassion towardes her forsakers she hath bidden greater stormes then this first by tyraunts then by heretikes last and most by the euill life of her owne Bishoppes In all which she yet standeth and euer riseth to honour as she is most impugned Their owne preaching hath singularly opened the might of God in the defense of that Seate of vnity VVhen they first beganne to touche and taunt the Pope in euery sermon in euery playe in booke and balate men that before liuing in faithfull simplicitie much medled not with his matters nor often hearde of his name beganne straight upon their busy ralinge to conceiue by reasonable discretion that there lay some greate grounde of matter and weight of trueth vpon that point which they coulde not digest in so many yeares bauling and barking at his name they saw the Pope euer in their way neuer out of their mouth and they doubted not but that singular hatred grew vpon some great importance and so admonished luckely by the aduersaries they sought the bottom of that perfecte and deepe hatered and found that it was the olde sore of the Arians and disease of the Donatistes and common to all heretikes they perceiued by S. Cyprian that the first attempte of such men was to driue awaye the pastor that they might with out resistance deuour and destroie the flocke And which was the pricke of all their endeuours to take from vs the acknowledging of the great and singular benefite of our conuersion to the faith that in stopping the heade of that condeth and plentifull well of our faith
but he was of our Church and Religion And I reade that king Edward the third both in his Parliament holden Anno Domini 1371. and at other times with diuers other noble men defended his cause in so much that so long as he liued all the popish byshops coulde do him no harme yet did he openly inueigh against the Pope calling him Antichrist and all popish doctrine without any couller or dissimulatiō both in the vniuersitie of Oxeford where he was reader and also in his sermons abroade as appeareth by his bookes and English homilies which yet are cōmon to be seene with vnlesse he had bene supported and maintained by the kinge and other potentates coulde neuer haue continued so long as he did Further haue you not hearde of Zisca and Procopius two mighty Capitaines which defended the Bohemians from the tyrannie both of the Emperour the Pope and almost all the Princes of Germanie For what cause did Paule the second Anno Domini 1466. condemne George a noble and a worthy Prince king of Bohemia for an heretike and depriued him of his kingdome was it not for defending the Protestantes in his dominion Thus you see that some Princes and Potentates haue not onely offered but haue in deed taken in hand to defend our church which you thought vnable to be shewed wherfore I chalenge your promise you must recante The 11. article is so confuse that it is harde to bring it into any certeine numbre of demandes 1 Againe I requier of the Protestants to declare by good histories or by reasonable likelihoode when the true church as they compt theirs decayed I Answer euen in the Apostles time there arose many heresies which did not a litle trouble the Church but immediatly after the Apostles time while the fathers of the church were earnestly occupied in resisting of horrible heresies by the craft of Satan some errors and abuses crept into the true Church of Christ which at the first because they were small and men occupied in greater matters were either not espied or not regarded as may be knowen by the writinges of Iustinus Martyr and Irenaeus two of the most auncient writers sence the Apostles time Iustinus was in this error that he thought that the Angells lusted after women and therefore were turned into Deuills It seemeth also that the Church in his time was in some error about second mariages and diuorcements Irenaeus affirmeth that our Sauiour Christ liued here 50. yeares which he sayeth was receyued of them that heard it euen of the Apostles mouthes Also both he and Papias which was before him and was the disciple of S. Iohn are charged by S. Ieronym in Catalogo Script Eccl. to haue held this error that Christ should raigne a thousand yeares after the Resurrection here in the flesh whereby it is manifest seeing these auncient fathers and pillers of the Church were thus stayned with errors that the Church in their time could not be free from the same And so it is euident that the true Church decayed immediatly after the Apostles times 2 VVhat yeare the Religion of the Papistes came in and preuayled ALthough many abuses and corruptions were entred into the church of Christ immediatly after the Apostles time which the deuill planted as a preparatiue for his eldest sonne Antichrist Yet we may well say that the religion of the Papist●s came in and preuailed that yeare in which the Pope first obteyned his Antichristian exaltation which was in the yeare of our Lord 607. when Boniface the third for a great summe of mony obteyned of Phocas the trayterous murtherer and adulterous Emperour that the Bishop of Rome should be called and counted the head of all the Church Since that time that deuilish heresie hath alwayes increased in error vntill the yeare of our Lord 1414. in which the Councell of Constance decreed to robbe the people of the Sacrament of Christ his blood From this time it hath againe decaied being mightely subdued by the bright beames of the Gospell shining in the world and at the length shall be vtterly destroyed 3 VVhether all their true Church was so soundly sleeping that none could preach against it as it first entred WHen the cōming of Antichrist was in all power of lying signes and wonders in so much that if it were possible the very elect should be deceiued and a general departing from the faith was foreshewed and the Church to be driuen into the wildernes what maruell were it if none of our Church could preach against it as it first entred yet because you speake of the first entring of popish religion which dependeth chiefly vpon the Popes authoritie you shall heare that when it first began to aduaunce it selfe there wanted not some either to preach or write against it When Victor bishop of Rome about the yeare of our Lord 200. passed the bondes of his authoritie in excommunicating of all the Churches of Asia many bishops withstoode him and especially Irenaeus bishop of Lyons and Policrates of Ephesus as witnesseth Eusebius libro 5. cap. 25. Eccle. S. Cyprian also reproueth Cornelius bishop of Rome for that he was moued by threatning of heretikes to receiue their letters did not send them backe into Africa to their own bishop lib. 1. Ep. 3. Also when Stephanus bishop of Rome was bold to communicate with Basilides and Martialis two Spaniards that were iustly excommunicated and deposed by the bishops of their owne prouince sought to restore them Cyprian and his felow bishops of Aphrica being required to giue their aduise gaue counsell that in no wise they shoulde be receiued not a litle blaming Stephanus that beinge far of and ignorant of their cause he would take vpon him to defend such wicked men lib. 1. Ep. 4. Likewise when the same Stephanus threatned excommunication to Helenus and Firmilianus and almost all the Churches of Asia because they thought that such as were baptized by heretikes shoulde be baptized againe he was misliked by Dionysius of Alexandria and diuers other godly bishops as appeareth by his Epistle wrytten to Xystus Euseb. lib. 7. cap. 5. Cyprian also reproueth him very sharply for the same opinion accusing him of presumption and contumacy Epi. ad Pompeium and in his epistle to Quintinus he sayth plainly that Peter himselfe was not so arrogant nor so presumptuous that he would say he held the primacy that other men should obey him as his inferiors When Anastasius Innocentius Zozimus Caelestinus bishops of Rome all on a row chalenged prerogatiue ouer the bishops in Aphrica by forginge a false Canon of the Nicene Councel they were withstoode by all the bishops of Aphrica who decreed that none vnder paine of excommunicatiō should appeale to any bishop beyond the sea Concil Aphrican cap. 92. and that the bishop of the chiefe see should not be called prince of priestes or highest priest but onely bishop of the chiefe see Conc. Aph. cap. 6. When Celestinus byshop of Rome dealt hardly with the
iustice of God to them that haue there reason rightly reformed it seemeth altogether vnreasonable So vpholden with scripture Neuer once mentioned in scripture and so confessed by Tertullian one that leaned to some parte of your cause so he ordered in all pointes So patched together like a beggers cloke with so many peeses of so many colours one patch out of Tertullian an other out of Augustine an other out of Gregory an other out of Damascene many stolen out of the monkes cowle and sayed to be geuen by Clemens Athanasius and such like some rent awaye violently against the owners willes as from Origen Cyprian the Councells of Vase and Carthage and no small peeses out of drousy dreames and mockadoe miracles narrations and relations c. I promise you a goodly ordered cause But of Cyprians time we must saye the trueth and shame the deuill so we will and shame the Pope to his eldest sonne It was such time M. Allen as Cyprian byshoppe of Carthage thought him selfe equall with Cornelius and Stephanus byshoppes of Rome 1. lib. epist. 1. cap. 4. de simplicitate praelatorum c. It was such a time that Cyprian taught that fayth onely doth profit to saluation To. 2. ad Quirin cap. 42. And that he beleeued not in God at all which placeth not the trust of all his felicity in him onely De duplici martyrio Yea it was such time that Cyprian woulde haue nothing doen in the celebration of the Lords Supper and namly in ministring of the cuppe but that Christ him selfe did lib. 2. epist. 3. And yet it was such a time also as Cyprian and all the byshoppes of Africa decreed in Councel that those whcih were baptised by heretikes should be baptised againe And therefore it was no such time but that he and all his fellowes though they held the foundation of Christ yet might and did erre in some opinions contrary to the trueth of Gods worde And where you aske whether the time of ignoraunce that we limitte for our walke doth rech so high as Cyprian his time I woulde you knewe we walke not in ignoraunce of any time but in the knowen path of Gods word which is higher then Cyprians or any mortall mans time But the time of ignoraunce which is limited for your walke that call ignoraunce the mother of deuotion first is all beside the path of Gods worde and then euen from the time that the misterie of iniquitie beganne to worke 2. Thess. 2. Euen vntill the time that Antichrist was openly shewed in the full power of darkenesse in all times when so euer and where so euer was any peese of miste or darke corner though all the rest were light there were the steppes of your walke As euen in the Apostles time when the superstition of Angells beganne to be receiued there was one steppe of your waye which you holde euen to this daye Colos. 2. And from that time the deuill neuer lefte to set in his foote for his sonne Antichristes dominion vntill he had placed him in the temple of God and prepared the wyde world for his walke VVhat that holy sacrifice is vvhich vvas euer counted so beneficiall to the liue and dead The punishement of our sinnes by the heuy losse thereof The great hatered vvhich the deuill and all his side hath euer borne tovvardes Christes eternall priesthoode and the sacrifice of the Church And that by the saide sacrifice of the Masse the soules departed are especially relieued CAP. VIII 1 ANd nowe we must fall in hande with the good Christian Catholike for the search of this so often named sacrifice so comfortable to the liue so profitable to the deade and what that oblation is which the holy Catholike Apostolike Church hath euer vsed through out the worlde for the sinnes of the departed in place of the offeringes of the law and that sacrifice which Iudas Machabeus made and procured at Hierusalem for the offensies of his people that perished in battle Surely it is no other but the sacrifice of our Mediatour as S. Augustine termeth it and the offering vpon the altar It is no other then that oblation which so fully and liuely expresseth the death and passion of Christ Iesus VVho being once offered by the sheeding of his blessed bloud for the redemption of man kinde hath wrought such a vertuous effect not onely in the holy sacraments for the giuing of grace and remission of sinnes but also hath lefte in a merueillous mistery his owne holy and blessed body and bloude as well to feede vpon for the especial strength and comforth of our soules as to offer vp the same for the remembraunce of his death and cleansing of ou● sinnes Not in that wise as it was done vppon the Crosse by the painefull sheeding of his bloude but as it was instituted first in the last Supper VVhere Christ our God and Redeemer according to the order of Melchisedech gaue to his Apostles and offered to God the father that body which afterward was betrayed and the same bloude which was shedde after also for the remission of sinne being with all tearmed by him the bloude of the new and eternall testament as that which in the newe lawe shoulde succeade the bloudy offeringes of the olde testament VVherof God almighty being as a man woulde say lothesome or full hath instituted this by his onely Sonne as a most pure and precious oblation and sacrifice to be continued in the Church through out the costes and corners of the rounde worlde VVhich being celebrated in the blessed memory of his Sonnes passion and hauing no other hoste nor oblation then that which then was offered can be no other sacrifice then that which there was made for the forgiuenesse of sinne and redemption of the worlde The which worthy action of Christes Church so fructefully applieth vnto vs the benefite of our maisters death that thereby we may haue comfortable hope of remission of all such misdeedes as most iustly deserued Gods wrath and terrible indignation against vs. CAP. VIII 1 NOwe the good catholike shall haue holsome doctrine taught him concerning the sacrifice of the masse which first commeth in place of the sacrifices of the lawe and that sacrifice which Iudas Machabaeus procured to be made at Ierusalem Well sayd M. Allen shall the sacrifice of the masse shoulder out the sacrifice of Christ his death The Apostle to the Hebrewes teacheth vs an other lesson cap. 10. that Christ offering but one sacrifice for our sinnes and that but once cap. 9. hath made perfect for euer those that are sanctified that our sinnes are taken away by that sacri●●ce and therefore there is no more sacrifice for sinnes left Wherefore it excuseth not but increaseth your blasphemy that you say the sacrifice of the masse is all one with the sacrifice of Christ his passion which was but one sacrifice and the same but once offered and by that one oblation hath made perfect all them that receiue any benefite