their Soueraigntie But let vs come to see what aide the L. Cardinall hath amassed and piled together out of later histories prouided wee still beare in mind that our question is not of popular tumults nor of the rebellion of subiects making insurrections out of their owne discontented spirits and brain-sicke humors nor of lawfull Excommunications nor of Canonicall censures and reprehensions but onely of a iuridicall sentence of deposition pronounced by the Pope as armed with ordinary and lawfull power to depose against a Soueraigne Prince Now then The L. Cardinall sets on and giues the first charge with Anastasius the Emperour whome Euphemius Patriarke of Constantinople would neuer acknowledge for Emperour that is to say would neuer consent he should be created Emperour by the help of his voice or suffrage except he would first subscribe to the Chalcedon Creed notwithstanding the great Empresse and Senate sought by violent courses and practises to make him yeeld And when afterward the said Emperour contrary to his oath taken played the relaps by falling into his former heresie and became a persecutor he was first admonished and then excommunicated by Symmachus Bishop of Rome To this the L. Cardinall addes that when the said Emperour was minded to choppe the poison of his hereticall assertions into the publique formes of diuine seruice then the people of Constantinople made an vproare against Anastasius their Emperour and one of his Commanders by force of armes constrained him to call backe certaine Bishops whome he had sent into banishments before In this first example the L. Cardinall by his good leaue neither comes close to the question nor salutes it a farre off Euphemius was not Bishop of Rome Anastasius was not deposed by Euphemius the Patriarch onely made no way to the creating of Anastasius The suddaine commotion of the base multitude makes nothing the rebellion of a Greeke Commaunder makes lesse for the authorizing of the Pope to depose a Soueraigne Prince The Greek Emperour was excommunicated by Pope Symmachus who knowes whether that be true or forged For the Pope himselfe is the onely witnesse here produced by the Lord Cardinall vpon the point and who knowes not how false how suppositious the writings and Epistles of the auncient Popes are iustly esteemed But graunt it a truth yet Anastasius excommunicated by Pope Symmachus is not Anastasius deposed by Pope Symmachus And to make a full answer I say further that excommunication denounced by a forraine Bishop against a party not beeing within the limits of his iurisdiction or one of his owne flock was not any barre to the party from the communion of the Church but onely a kind of publication that he the said Bishop in his particular would hold no further communion with any such party For proofe whereof I produce the Canons of the Councils held at Carthage In one of the said Canons it is thus prouided and ordained If any Bishop shall wilfully absent himselfe from the vsual and accustomed Synodes let him not be admitted to the communion of other Churches but let him onely vse the benefit and libertie of his owne Church In an other of the same Canons thus If a Bishop shall insinuate himselfe to make a conueiance of his Monasterie and the ordering thereof vnto a Monke of any other Cloister let him be cut off let him bee separated from the communion with other Churches and content himselfe to liue in the communion of his owne flocke In the same sense Hilarius Bishop of Poictiers excommunicated Liberius Bishop of Rome for subscribing to the Arrian Confession In the same sense Iohn Bishop of Antioch excommunicated Caelestine of Rome and Cyrill of Alexandria Bishops for proceeding to sentence against Nestorius without staying his comming to answer in his owne cause In the same sense likewise Victor Bishop of Rome did cut off all the Bishops of the East not from the communion of their owne flocks but from communion with Victor and the Romane Church What resemblance what agreement what proportion betweene this course of excommunication and that way of vniust fulmination which the Popes of Rome haue vsurped against Kings but yet certaine long courses of time after that auncient course And this may stand for a full answer likewise to the example of Clotharius This auncient King of the French fearing the censures of Pope Agapetus erected the territorie of Yuetot vnto the title of a Kingdome by way of satisfaction for murdering of Gualter Lord of Yuetot For this example the L. Cardinall hath ransackt records of 900. yeeres antiquitie and vpward in which times it were no hard peice of worke to shewe that Popes would not haue any hand nor so much as a finger in the affaires and acts of the French Kings Gregorie of Tours that liued in the same age hath recorded many acts of excesse and violent iniuries done against Bishops by their Kings and namely against Praetextatus Bishop of Roan for any of which iniurious prankes then plaied the Bishop of Rome durst not reproue the said Kings with due remonstrance But see here the words of Gregory himselfe to King Chilperic If any of vs O King shall swarue from the path of iustice him thou hast power to punish But in case thou shalt at any time transgresse the lines of equitie who shall once touch thee with reproofe To thee we speake but are neuer heeded and regarded except it be thy pleasure and be thou not pleased who shal challenge thy greatnes but he that iustly challengeth to be iustice it selfe The good Bishop notwithstanding these humble remonstrances was but roughly entreated and packt into exile beeing banished into the Isle of Gernseye But I am not minded to make any deepe search or inquisition into the titles of the Lords of Yuetot whose honourable priuiledges and titles are the most honourable badges and cognizances of their ancestors and of some remarquable seruice done to the Crowne of France so farre I take them to differ from a satisfaction for sinne And for the purpose I onely affirme that were the credit of this historie beyond all exception yet makes it nothing to the present question wherein the power of deposing and not of excommunicating supreme Kings is debated And suppose the King by charter granted the said priuiledges for feare of excommunication how is it prooued thereby that Pope Agapetus had lawfull and ordinarie power to depriue him of his Crowne Nay doubtlesse it was rather a meanes to eleuate and aduance the dignitie of the Crowne of France and to style the French King a King of Kings as one that was able to giue the qualitie of King to all the rest of the Nobles and Gentrie of his Kingdome Doth not some part of the Spanish Kings greatnesse consist in creating of his Great In the next place followeth Gregorie I. who in the 10. Epistle of the 11. booke confirming the priuiledges of the Hospital at Augustodunum in Bourgongne prohibiteth all
Then for King-deposers he frames this answer That by heresie they vnderstand notorious heresie and formerly condemned by sentence of the Church Moreouer in case the Pope hath erred in the fact it is the Clergies part adhering to their King to make remonstrances vnto the Pope and to require the cause may be referred to the iudgement of a full Councill the French Church then and there beeing present Now in this answer the L. Cardinall is of an other minde then Bellarmine his brother Cardinall For he goes thus farre That a Prince condemned by vniust sentence of the Pope ought neuertheles to quit his Kingdome and that his Pastors vniust sentence shall not redound to his detriment prouided that he giue way to the said sentence and shew himselfe not refractarie but stay the time in patience vntill the holy Father shall renounce his error and reuoke his foresaid vniust sentence In which case these two materiall points are to be presupposed The one That he who now hath seized the Kingdome of the Prince displaced will forthwith if the Pope shall solicite and intercede return the Kingdome to the hand of the late possessor The other That in the interim the Prince vniustly deposed shall not neede to feare the bloodie murderers mercilesse blade and weapon But on the other side the Popes power of so large a size as Bellarmine hath shaped is no whit pleasing to the L. Cardinals eie For in case the King should be vniustly deposed by the Pope not well informed he is not of the mind the Kingdome should stoope to the Popes behests but will rather haue the Kingdom to deale by remonstrance and to referre the cause vnto the Council Wherein hee makes the Council to be of more absolute and supreame authoritie then the Pope a straine to which the holy Father will neuer lend his eare And yet doubtles the Councill required in this case must be vniuersall wherein the French for so much as they stand firme for their King and his cause can be no Iudges and in that regard the L. Cardinal requireth onely the presence of the French Church Who seeth not here into what pickle the French cause is brought by this meanes The Bishops of Italie forsooth of Spaine of Sicilie of Germany the subiects of Soueraignes many times at professed or priuy enmitie with France shall haue the cause compromitted referred to their iudgment whether the Kingdome of France shall driue out her Kings and shall kindle the flames of seditious troubles in the very heart and bowels of the Realme But is it not possible that a King may lacke the loue of his owne subiects and they taking the vantage of that occasion may put him to his trumps in his owne Kingdome Is it not possible that calumniations whereby a credulous Pope hath beene seduced may in like manner deceiue some great part of a credulous people Is it not possible that one part of the people may cleaue to the Popes faction an other may hold and stand out for the Kings rightfull cause and ciuil warres may be kindled by the splene of these two sides Is it not possible that his Holinesse will not rest in the remonstrances of the French will yet further pursue his cause And whereas nowe a dayes a Generall Councill cannot be held except it bee called and assembled by the Popes authority is it credible the Pope will take order for the conuocation of a Council by whom he shall be iudged And how can the Pope be President in a Council where himselfe is the partie impleaded and to whom the sifting of his owne sentence is referred as it were to committies to examine whether it was denounced according to Law or against Iustice But in the meane time whilest all these remonstrances and addresses of the Council are on foote behold the Royall Maiesty of the King hangeth as it were by loose gimmals and must stay the iudgement of the Council to whom it is referred Well what if the Councill should happe to be two or three yeeres in assembling and to continue or hold eighteene yeeres like the Council of Trent should not poore France I beseech you be reduced to a very bad plight should shee not be in a very wise and warme taking To be short His Lordships whole speech for the vntying of this knot not onely surmounteth possibility but is stuft with ridiculous toyes This I make manifest by his addition in the same passage If the Pope deceiued in fact shal rashly and vniustly declare the King to be an heretike then the Popes declaration shal not be seconded with actuall deposition vnles the Realme shall consent vnto the Kings deposing What needes any man to be instructed in this doctrine Who doth not knowe that a King so long as he is vpheld and maintained in his Kingdome by his people cannot actually and effectually bee deposed from his Throne Hee that speaketh such language and phrase in effect saith and saith no more then this A King is neuer depriued of his Crowne so long as he can keep his Crowne on his head a King is neuer turn'd and stript naked so long as hee can keepe his cloathes on his backe a King is neuer deposed so long as he can make the stronger partie and side against his enemies in breife a King is King and shal stil remaine King so long as he can hold the possession of his Kingdome and sit fast in his Chaire of Estate Howbeit let vs here by the way take notice of these words vttered by his Lordship That for the deposing of a King the consent of the people must be obtained For by these words the people are exalted aboue the King and are made the Iudges of the Kings deposing But here is yet a greater matter For that Popes may erre in faith it is acknowledged by Popes themselues For some of them haue condemned Pope Honorius for a Monothelite S. Hierome and S. Hilarius and S. Athanasius doe testifie that Pope Liberius started aside and subscribed to Arrianisme Pope Iohn 23. was condemned in the Council of Constance for maintaining there is neither hell nor heauen Diuerse other Popes haue been tainted with error in faith If therefore any Pope hereticall in himselfe shall depose an Orthodoxe King for heresie can it be imagined that he which boasts himselfe to beare all diuine and humane lawes in the priuy coffer or casket of his breast will stoope to the remonstrances of the French and vayle to the reasons which they shall propound though neuer so iustifiable and of neuer so great validitie And how can he that may be infected with damnable heresie when himselfe is not alwaies free from heresie be a iudge of heresie in a King In this question some are of opinion that as a man the Pope may fall into error but not as Pope Very good I demand then vpon the matter wherefore the Pope doth not instruct and reforme the man or
Churches vnder a Prince of contrary religion And if things without life or soule are with lesse danger left in an heretikes hands why then shall not an hereticall King with more facilitie and lesse danger keep his Crown his Royall charge his lands his customes his imposts c. For will any man except he bee out of his wits affirme these things to haue any life or soule Or why shall it be counted follie to leaue a sword in the hand of a mad Bedlam Is not a sword also without life and soule For my part I should rather be of this minde that possession of things without reason is more dangerous and pernicious in the hands of an euill Master then the possession of things indued with life and reason For things without life lacke both reason and iudgement how to exempt and free themselues from being instruments in euill and wicked actions from beeing emploied to vngodly and abhominable vses I will not deny that an hereticall Prince is a plague a pernicious and mortal sicknes to the soules of his subiects But a breach made by one mischiefe must not be filled vp with a greater inconuenience An errour must not be shocked and shouldered with disloialtie nor heresie with periurie nor impietie with sedition and armed rebellion against God and the King God who vseth to try and to schoole his Church will neuer forsake his Church nor hath need to protect his Church by any proditorious and prodigious practises of perfidious Christians For hee makes his Church to be like the burning bush In the middest of the fire and flames of persecutions he will prouide that she shall not bee consumed because he standeth in the midst of his Church And suppose there may bee some iust cause for the French to play the rebels against their King yet will it not follow that such rebellious motions are to be raised by the bellowes of the Romane Bishop to whose Pastorall charge and office it is nothing proper to intermeddle in the ciuill affaires of forraine Kingdomes Here is the summe and substance of the L. Cardinals whole discourse touching his pretence of the second inconuenience Which discourse he hath closed with a remarkeable confession to wit that neither by the authoritie of holy Scripture nor by the testimony and verdict of the Primitiue Church there hath beene any full decision of this question In regard whereof he falleth into admiration that Lay-people haue gone so farre in audaciousnesse as to labour that a doubtfull doctrine might for euer passe currant and be taken for a newe article of faith What a shame what a reproach is this how full of scandall for so his Lordship is pleased to cry out This breakes into the seueralls and inclosures of the Church this lets in whole herds of heresies to grase in her green and sweet pastures On the other side without any such Rhetoricall outcries I simply affirme It is a reproach a scandall a crime of rebellion for a subiect hauing his full charge and loade of benefits in the newe spring of his Kings tender age his King-fathers blood yet reeking and vpon the point of an addresse for a double match with Spaine in so honourable an assembly to seek the thraldome of his Kings Crown to play the captious in cauilling about causes of his Kings deposing to giue his former life the lie with shame enough in his olde age and to make himselfe a common by-word vnder the name of a Problematicall Martyr one that offers himselfe to fagot and fire for a point of doctrine but problematically handled that is distrustfully and onely by way of doubtfull and questionable discourse yea for a point of doctrine in which the French as he pretendeth are permitted to thwart and crosse his Holines in iudgement prouided they speake in it as in a point not certaine and necessary but onely doubtfull and probable The third Jnconvenience examined THE third Inconuenience pretended by the L. Cardinall to growe by admitting this Article of the third Estate is flourished in these colours It would breede and bring forth an open and vnauoideable schism against his Holinesse and the rest of the whole Ecclesiasticall bodie For thereby the doctrine long approoued and ratified by the Pope and the rest of the Church should now be taxed and condemned of impious and most detestable consequence yea the Pope and the Church euen in faith and in points of saluation should be reputed and beleeued to be erroniously perswaded Hereupon his Lordship giues himselfe a large scope of the raines to frame his elegant amplifications against schismes and schismatikes Now to mount so high and to flie in such place vpon the wings of amplification for this Inconuenience what is it else but magnifically to report and imagine a mischeife by many degrees greater then the mischeife is The L. Cardinal is in a great error if he make himselfe beleeue that other nations wil make a rent or separation from the communion of the French because the French stand to it tooth and nayle that French Crownes are not liable or obnoxious to Papall deposition howsoeuer there is no schisme that importeth not separation of communion The most illustrious Republike of Venice hath imbarked herselfe in this quarrell against his Holinesse hath played her prize and carried away the weapons with great honour Doth she notwithstanding her triumph in the cause forbeare to participate with all her neighbors in the same Sacraments doth she liue in schisme with all the rest of the Romane Church No such matter When the L. Cardinal himselfe not many yeeres past maintained the Kings cause and stood honourably for the Kings right against the Popes Temporall vsurpations did he then take other Churches to be schismaticall or the rotten members of Antechrist Beleeue it who list I beleeue my Creed Nay his Lordship telleth vs himselfe a little after that his Holinesse giues the French free scope to maintaine either the affirmatiue or negatiue of this question And will his Holinesse hold them schismatikes that dissent from his opinion and iudgement in a subiect or cause esteemed problematicall Farre be it from his Holinesse The King of Spaine reputed the Popes right arme neuer gaue the Pope cause by any act or other declaration to conceiue that hee acknowledged himselfe deposeable by the Pope for heresie or Tyrannie or stupidity But beeing well assured the Pope standeth in greater feare of his arme then he doth of the Popes head and shoulders he neuer troubles his owne head about our question More when the booke of Cardinall Baronius was come forth in which booke the Kingdome of Naples is decryed and publiquely discredited like false money touching the qualitie of a Kingdome and attributed to the King of Spain not as true proprietary thereof but onely as an Estate held in fee of the Romane Church the King made no bones to condemne and to banish the said booke out of his dominions The holy Father was contented
man who by attempting an act which neuer any man had the heart or face to attempt before hath condemned all his predecessors of cowardise or at least of ignorance what is it else but euen to send vs to the schoole of mighty robbers and to seeke to correct and reforme ancient vertues by late vices Which Otho Frisingensis calling into his owne priuate consideration he durst freely professe that he had not reade of any Emperour before this Henrie the 4. excommunicated or driuen out of his Imperiall Throne and Kingdome by the cheife Bishop of Rome But if this quarrell may bee tryed and fought out with weapons of examples I leaue any indifferent reader to iudge what examples ought in the cause to be of cheifest authoritie and weight whether late examples of Kings deposed by Popes for the most part neuer taking the intended effect or auncient examples of Popes actually and effectually thrust out of their thrones by Emperous and Kings The Emperour Constantius expelled Liberius Bishop of Rome out of the citie banished him as farre as Beroe and placed Foelix in his roome Indeed Constantius was an Arrian and therein vsed no lesse impious then vniust proceeding Neuertheles the auncient Fathers of the Church do not blame Constantius for his hard and sharpe dealing with a cheife Bishop ouer whom he had no lawfull power but onely as an enemie to the Orthodoxe faith and one that raged with extreame rigor of persecution against innocent beleeuers In the raigne of Valentinian the 1. and yeare of the Lord 367. the contention between Damasus and Vrsicinus competitors for the Bishoppricke filled the cittie of Rome with a bloody sedition in which were wickedly and cruelly murdered 137. persons To meete with such turbulent actions Honorius made a law extant in the Decretalls the words whereof be these If it shall happen henceforth by the temeritie of competitors that any two Bishops be elected to the See wee straitly charge and command that neither of both shall sit in the said See By vertue of this Law the same Honorius in the yere 420. expelled Bonifacius and Eulalius competitors and Antipopes out of Rome though not long after he reuoked Bonifacius and settled him in the Papall See Theodoric the Goth King of Italie sent Iohn Bishop of Rome Embassador to the Emperour Iustinian called him home againe and clapt him vp in the close prison where hee starued to death By the same King Peter Bishop of Altine was dispatched to Rome to heare the cause and examine the processe of Pope Symmachus then indited and accused of sundry crimes King Theodatus about the yeare 537. had the seruice of Pope Agapetus as his Embassadour to the Emperour Iustinian vpon a treatie of peace Agapetus dying in the time of that seruicc Syluerius is made Bishop by Theodatus Not long after Syluerius is driuen out by Belisarius the Emperour his Lieutenant and sent into banishment After Syluerius next succeedeth Vigilius who with currant coine purchased the Popedome of Belisarius The Emperour Iustinian sends for Vigilius to Constantinople and receiues him there with great honour Soone after the Emperour takes offence at his freenesse in speaking his mind commands him to be beaten with stripes in manner to death and with a roape about his necke to be drawne through the city like a theife as Platina relates the historie Nicephorus in his 26. booke and 17. chapter comes very neere the same relation The Emperour Constantius in the yere 654. caused Pope Martin to be bound with chains banished him into Chersonesus where he ended his life The Popes in that age writing to the Emperors vsed none but submissiue tearmes by way of most humble supplications made profession of bowing the knee before their sacred Maiesties and of executing their commaunds with entire obedience payed to the Emperours twenty pound weight of gold for their Inuestiture which tribute was afterward released and remitted by Constantine the Bearded to Pope Agatho in the yere 679. as I haue obserued in an other place Nay further euen when the power and riches of the Popes was growne to great height by the most profuse and immense munificence of Charlemayne and Lewis his sonne the Emperours of the West did not relinquish and giue ouer the making and vnmaking of Popes as they saw cause Pope ' Adrian 1. willingly submitted his necke to this yoke and made this Law to be passed in a Council that in Charlemain should rest all right and power for the Popes election and for the gouernement of the Papall See This Constitution is inserted in the Decretals Dist 63. Can. Hadrianus and was confirmed by the practise of many yeeres In the yeare of the L. 963. the Emperour Otho tooke away the Popedom from Iohn 13. and placed Leo 8. in his roome In like manner Iohn 14. Gregorie 5. and Siluester 2. were seated in the Papal Throne by the Othos The Emperour Henrie 2. in the yeere 1007. deposed three Popes namely Benedict 9. Siluester 3. and Gregorie 6. whom Platina doth not sticke to call three most detestable and vile monsters This custome continued this practise stood in force for diuers ages euen vntill the times of Gregorie 7. by whome the whole West was tossed and turmoiled with lamentable warres which plagued the world and the Empire by name with intolerable troubles and mischiefes For after the said Gregorian wars the Empire fell from bad to worse and so went on to decay till Emperours at last were driuen to begge and receiue the Imperiall Crowne of the Pope The Kingdome of France met not with so rude entreatie but was dealt withall by courses of a milder temper Gregorie 4. about the yere of the Lord 832. was the first Pope that perswaded himselfe to vse the censure of Excommunication against a King of France This Pope hauing a hand in the troublesome factions of the Realme was nothing backward to side with the sonnes of Lewis surnamed the Courteous by wicked conspiracy entring into a desperate course and complot against Lewis their owne Father as witnesseth Sigebert in these words Pope Gregorie comming into France ioyned himselfe to the sonnes against the Emperour their Father But Annals of the verie same times and he that furbushed Aimonius a religious of S. Benedicts order do testifie that all the Bishops of France fell vpon this resolution by no meanes to rest in the Popes pleasure or to giue any place vnto his designe and contrariwise In case the Pope should proceed to excommunication of their King he should returne out of Fraunce to Rome an excommunicate person himself The Chronicle of S. Denis hath words in this forme The Lord Apostolicall returned answer that he was not come into Fraunce for any other purpose but onely to excommunicate the King and his Bishops if they would be in any sort opposite vnto the sonnes of Lewis or disobedient vnto the
barke so as they could not bring the seruice which they had vndertaken to any good passe because they stood in a bodily feare of their owne hydes Not long after the Cardinal of Capua was in the like taking For he durst not bring the Realme within the limits of the interdict before he was got out of the limits of the Kingdome The King herewith incensed thrust all the Prelates that had giuen consent vnto these proceedings out of their Sees confiscated their goods c. To the same effect is that which wee reade in Math. Paris After the Pope had giuen his Maiesty to vnderstand by the Cardinal of Anagnia that his Kingdome should be interdicted vnlesse hee would be reconciled to the King of England the King returned the Pope this answer that he was not in any sort afraid of the Popes sentence for as much as it could not bee grounded vpon any equity of the cause and added withall that it did no way appertain vnto the Church of Rome to sentence Kings especially the King of Fraunce And this was done saith Iohannes Tilius Register in Court of Parliament at Paris by the counsell of the French Barons Most notable is the example of Philip the Faire and hits the bird in the right eie In the yeere 1032. the Pope dispatched the Archbishop of Narbona with mandates into France commaunding the King to release the Bishop of Apamia then detained in prison for contumelious words tending to the Kings defamation and spoken to the Kings owne head In very deede this Pope had conceiued a secret grudge and no light displeasure against King Philip before namely because the King had taken vpon him the collation of benefices and other Ecclesiasticall dignities Vpon which occasion the Pope sent letters to the King of this tenour and style Feare God and keepe his commaundements We would haue thee knowe that in spirituall and temporall causes thou art subiect vnto our selfe that collating of benefices and prebends doth not in any sort appertaine to thy office and place that in case as keeper of the spiritualties thou haue the custodie of benefices and prebends in thy hand when they become void thou shalt by sequestration reserue the fruites of the same to the vse and benefit of the next incumbents and successors and in case thou hast heretofore collated any we ordaine the said collations to bee meerely void and so farre as herein thou hast proceeded to the fact we reuoke the said collations We hold them for hereticks whosoeuer are not of this beleefe A Legate comes to Paris and brings these brauing letters By some of the Kings faithful seruants they are violently snatched and pulled out of the Legates hands by the Earle of Artois they are cast into the fire The good King answers the Pope and payes him in as good coyne as he had sent Philip by the grace of God King of the French to Boniface calling and bearing himselfe the Soueraigne Bishop little greeting or none at all May thy exceeding sottishnesse vnderstand that in temporall causes we are not subiect vnto any mortall and earthly creature that collating of benefices and prebends by Regall right appertaineth to our office and place that appropriating their fruites when they become voide belongeth to our selfe alone during their vacancie that all collations by vs heretofore made or to be made hereafter shall stand in force that in the validitie and vertue of the said collations we will euer couragiously defend and maintaine all Incumbents and possessors of benefices and prebends so by vs collated We hold them all for sots and senselesse whosoeuer are not of this beleefe The Pope incensed herewith excommunicates the King but no man dares publish that censure or become bearer thereof The King notwithstanding the said proceedings of the Pope assembles his Prelates Barons and Knights at Paris askes the whole assembly of whome they hold their Fees with all other the Temporalties of the Church They make answer with one voice that in the said matters they disclaime the Pope and know none other Lord beside his Maiestie Meane while the Pope worketh with Germanie and the Lowe Countries to stirre them vp against France But Philip sendeth William of Nogaret into Italy William by the direction and aide of Sciarra Columnensis takes the Pope at Anagnia mounts him vpon a leane ill-fauoured iade carries him prisoner to Rome where ouercome with choller anguish and great indignation hee takes his last leaue of the Popedome and his life All this notwithstanding the King presently after from the successors of Boniface receiues very ample and gratious Bulls in which the memorie of all the former passages and actions is vtterly abolished Witnesse the Epistle of Clement 5. wherein this King is honoured with prayses for a pious and religious Prince and his Kingdom is restored to the former estate In that age the French Nobilitie carried other manner of spirits then the moderne and present Nobilitie doe I meane those by whome the L. Cardinal was applauded and assisted in his Oration Yea in those former times the Prelates of the Realme stood better affected towards their King then the L. Cardinal himselfe now standeth who could finde none other way to dally with and to shift off this pregnant example but by plaine glosing that heresie and Apostasie was no ground of that question or subiect of that controuersie Wherein hee not onely condemnes the Pope as one that proceeded against Philip without a iust cause and good ground but likewise giues the Pope the lie who in his goodly letters but a little aboue recited hath enrowled Philip in the list of heretiks He saith moreouer that indeed the knot of the question was touching the Popes pretence in challenging to himselfe the temporall Soueraingntie of France that is to say in qualifying himselfe King of France But indeed and indeede no such matter to be found His whole pretence was the collating of benefices and to pearch aboue the King to crowe ouer his Crowne in Temporall causes At which pretence his Holinesse yet aimeth still attributing and and challenging to himselfe plenary power to depose the King Now if the L. Cardinal shall yet proceede to cauill that Boniface 8. was taken by the French for an vsurper and no lawfull Pope but for one that crept into the Papacy by fraud and symonie hee must bee pleased to set downe positiuely who was Pope seeing that Boniface then sate not in the Papall chaire To conclude If hee that creepeth and stealeth into the Papacie by symonie by canuases or labouring of suffrages vnder hand or by bribery be not lawfull Pope I dare bee bold to professe there will hardly bee found two lawfull Popes in the three last ages Pope Benedict in the yeare 1408. being in choller with Charles 6. because Charles had bridled and curbed the gainefull exactions and extorsions of the Popes Court by which the Realme of France had been exhausted of their treasure sent
true sight of their owne weakenesse Let stirring spirits be trained vp in such practicall precepts let desperate wits be seasoned with such rules of discipline and what need we or how can we wonder they contriue powder conspiracies and practise the damnable art of parricides After Iulian his Lordship falles vpon Valentinian the younger who maintaining Arrianisme with great and open violence might haue beene deposed by the Christians from his Empire and yet say we they neuer dream'd of any such practise Here the L. Cardinal maketh answer The Christians mooued with respect vnto the fresh memory both of the brother and father as also vnto the weake estate of the sonnes young yeeres abstained from all counsels and courses of sharper effect and operation To which answer I reply these are but friuolous coniectures deuised and framed to tickle his owne fancie For had Valentinianus the younger beene the sonne of an Arrian and had then also attained to threescore yeeres of age they would neuer haue borne themselues in other fashion then they did towards their Emperour Then the Cardinal goeth on The people would not abandon the factious and seditious party but were so firme or obstinate rather for the faction that Valentinian for feare of the tumultuous vproares was constrained to giue way and was threatened by the souldiers that except hee would adhere vnto the Catholikes they would yeeld him no assistance nor stand for his partie Now this answer of the L. Cardinall makes nothing to the purpose concerning the Popes power to pull downe Kings from their stately nest Let vs take notice of his proper consequence Valentinian was afraid of the popular tumult at Milan the Pope therefore hath power to curbe hereticall Kings by deposition Now marke what distance is betweene Rome and Milan what difference betweene the people of Milan and the Bishop of Rome betweene a popular tumult and a iudicatory sentence between fact and right things done by the people or souldiers of Milan and things to bee done according to right and law by the Bishop of Rome the same distance the same difference if not farre greater is betweene the L. Cardinals antecedent and his consequent betweene his reason and the maine cause or argument which we haue in hand The madde commotion of the people was not here so much to be regarded as the sad instruction of the Pastor of their good and godly Pastor S. Ambrose so far from heartning the people of Milan to rebell that being Bishop of Milan he offered himselfe to suffer Martyrdome If the Emperour abuse his Imperiall authoritie for so Theodoret hath recited his words to tyrannize thereby here am I ready to suffer death And what resistance he made against his L. Emperour was only by way of supplication in these tearmes We beseech thee O Augustus as humble suppliants we offer no resistance we are not in feare but we flie to supplication Againe If my patrimony be your marke enter vpon my patrimonie if my bodie I will goe and meet my torments Shall I bee drag'd to prison or to death I will take delight in both Item in his Oration to Auxentius J can afflict my soule with sorrowe I can lament J can send forth grieuous groanes My weapons against either of both souldiers or Goths are teares A Priest hath none other weapons of defence I neither can resist nor ought in any other manner to make resistance Iustinian Emperour in his old age fell into the heresie of the Aphthartodocites Against Iustinian though fewe they were that fauoured him in that heresie the Bishop of Rome neuer darted with violence any sentence of Excommunication interdiction or deposition The Ostrogot Kings in Italy the Visigot in Spaine the Vandal in Africa were all addicted to the Arrian impietie and some of them cruelly persecuted the true professors The Visigot and Vandall were no neighbours to Italie The Pope thereby had the lesse cause to feare the stings of those waspes if they had been angred The Pope for all that neuer had the humour to wrastle or iustle with any of the said Kings in the cause of deposing them from their Thrones But especially the times when the Vandals in Affricke and the Goths in Italy by Belisarius and Narses professors of the Orthodoxe faith were tyred with long warres and at last were vtterly defeated in bloodie battels are to be considered Then were the times or neuer for the Pope to vnsheath his weapons and to vn-case his arrowes of deposition then were the times to drawe them out of his quiuer and to shoote at all such Arrian Heads then were the times by dispensations to release their subiects of their oathes by that peremptory meanes to aide and strengthen the Catholike cause But in that age the said weapons were not knowne to haue been hammered in the Pontificall forge Gregory I. made his boasts that he was able to ruine the Lombards for many yeeres together sworne enemies to the Bishops of Rome their state present and the hope of all their future prosperity But hee telleth vs that by the feare of God before his eyes and in his heart he was bridled and restrained from any such intent as elswhere we haue obserued If J would haue medled with practising and procuring the death of the Lombards the whole nation of the Lombards at this day had been robbed of their Kings Dukes Earles they had beene reduced to the tearmes of extreame confusion Hee might at least haue deposed their King if the credit of the L. Cardinals iudgement bee currant without polluting or stayning his owne conscience What can we tearm this assertion of the L. Cardinall but open charging the most auncient Bishops of Rome with crueltie when they would not succour the Church of Christ oppressed by tyrants whose oppression they had power to represse by deposing the oppressors Is it credible that Iesus Christ hath giuen a Commission to S. Peter and his successors for so many ages without any power to execute their Commission or to make any vse thereof by practise Is it credible that he hath giuen them a sword to be kept in the scabbard without drawing once in a thousand yeeres Is it credible that in the times when Popes were most deboshed abandoning themselues to all sorts of corrupt and vitious courses as it testified by their own flaterers and best affected seruants is it credible that in those times they beganne to vnderstand the vertue and strength of their Commission For if either feare or lacke of power was the cause of holding their hands and voluntarie binding of themselues to the peace or good behauiour wherefore is not some one Pope at least produced who hath complained that he was hindered from executing the power that Christ had conferred vpon his Pontificall See Wherefore is not some one of the auncient and holy Fathers alledged by whom the Pope hath bin aduised and exhorted to take courage to stand vpon the vigor and
sucked of the Churches breasts And as for the greatnesse of the sinne or offence it seemes to me there is very little difference in the matter For a Prince that neuer did sweare any religious obedience to Iesus Christ is bound no lesse to such obedience then if he had taken a solemne oath As the sonne that rebelliously stands vp against his father is in equall degree of sinne whether he hath sworn or not sworn obedience to his father because hee is bound to such obedience not by any voluntarie contract or couenant but by the law of Nature The commaundement of God to kisse the Sonne whom the Father hath confirmed and ratified King of Kings doth equally bind all Kings as wel Pagans as Christians On the other side who denies who doubts that Constantius Emperour at his first steppe or entrance into the Empire did not sweare and bind himselfe by solemne vowe to keepe the rules and to maintaine the precepts of the Orthodox faith or that he did not receiue his fathers Empire vpon such condition This notwithstanding the Bishop of Rome pulled not Constantius from his Imperial throne but Constantius remooued the Bishop of Rome from his Papall See And were it so that an oath taken by a King at his consecration and after violated is a sufficient cause for the Pope to depose an Apostate or hereticall Prince then by good consequence the Pope may in like sort depose a King who beeing neither dead in Apostasie nor sicke of heresie doth neglect onely the due administration of iustice to his loyall subiects For his oath taken at consecration importeth likewise that he shall minister iustice to his people A point wherein the holy Father is held short by the L. Cardinall who dares prescribe new lawes to the Pope and presumes to limit his fulnesse of power within certaine meeres and head-lands extending the Popes power only to the deposing of Christian Kings when they turne Apostats forsaking the Catholike faith and not such Princes as neuer breathed any thing but pure Paganisme and neuer serued vnder the colours of Iesus Christ Meane while his Lordship forgets that King Attabaliba was deposed by the Pope from his Kingdome of Peru and the said Kingdome was conferred vpon the King of Spaine though the said poore King of Peru neuer forsook his heathen superstition and though the turning of him out of his terrestrial Kingdome was no way to conuert him vnto the faith of Christ Yea his Lordship a little after telleth vs himselfe that Be the Turkes possession in the conquests that hee maketh ouer Christians neuer so auncient yet by no long tract of time whatsoeuer can he gaine so much as a thumbes breadth of prescription that is to say the Turke for all that is but a disseisor one that violently and wilfully keeps an other man from his owne and by good right may be dispossessed of the same whereas notwithstanding the Turkish Emperours neuer fauoured nor sauoured Christianitie Let vs runne ouer the examples of Kings whome the Pope hath dared and presumed to depose and hardly will any one be found of whome it may be truely auouched that he hath taken an oath contrary to his oath of subiection to Iesus Christ or that hee hath wilfully cast himselfe into Apostaticall defection And certes to any man that weighs the matter with due consideration it will be found apparantly false that Kings of France haue been receiued of their subiects at any time with condition to serue Iesus Christ They were actually Kings before they came foorth to the solemnity of their sacring before they vsed any stipulation or promise to their subiects For in hereditary Kingdomes nothing more certain nothing more vncontroulable the Kings death instantly maketh liuery and seisin of the Royalty to his next successor Nor is it materiall to reply that a King succeeding by right of inheritance takes an oath in the person of his predecessor For euery oath is personall proper to the person by whom it is taken and to God no liuing creature can sweare that his owne sonne or his heire shall prooue an honest man Well may the father and with great solemnitie promise that he will exhort his heire apparant with all his power and the best of his endeauours to feare God and to practise pietie If the fathers oath be agreeable to the duties of godlines the sonne is bound thereby whether he take an oath or take none On the other side if the fathers oath come from the puddles of impietie the sonne is bound thereby to goe the contrarie way If the fathers oath concerne things of indifferent nature and such as by the varietie or change of times become either pernicious or impossible then it is free for the Kings next successor and heire prudently to fit and proportion his lawes vnto the times present and to the best benefit of the Commonwealth When I call these things to mind with some attention I am out of all doubt his Lordship is very much to seek in the right sense and nature of his Kings oath taken at his Coronation to defend the Church and to perseuere in the Catholike faith For what is more vnlike and lesse credible then this conceit that after Clouis had raigned 15. yeeres in the state of Paganisme and then receiued holy Baptisme he should become Christian vpon this condition That in case hee should afterward revolt from the faith it should then bee in the power of the Church to turne him out of his Kingdome But had any such conditionall stipulation beene made by Clouis in very good earnest and truth yet would hee neuer haue intended that his deposing should be the act of the Romane Bishop but rather of those whether Peeres or people or whole body of the State by whom he had been aduanced to the Kingdome Let vs heare the truth and this is the truth It is farre from the customarie vse in France for their Kings to take any such oath or to vse any such stipulation with their subiects If any King or Prince wheresoeuer doth vse an oath or solemne promise in these expresse tearmes Let mee loose my Kingdome or my life be that day my last both for life and raigne when I shall first reuolt from the Christian religion by these words he calleth vpon God for vengeance he vseth imprecation against his owne head but he makes not his Crowne to stoope by this meanes to any power in the Pope or in the Church or in the people And touching inscriptions vpon coines of which point his Lordship speaketh by the way verily the nature of the money or coine the stamping and minting whereof is one of the markes of the Prince his dignity and Soueraignty is not changed by bearing the letters of Christs name on the reuerse or on the front Such characters of Christs name are aduertisements and instructions to the people that in shewing and yeelding obedience vnto the King they are obedient vnto Christ