is terrible as an armie with banners so the number is terrible and strengthened by the Sacrament of Confirmation It is an Army because conioyned and vnited with the Sacrament of the Eucharist it is likewise ordered by the Sacrament of Orders and because some die and some fall away there is a necessity of supply through Matrimonie after they are beaten downe there is a recouerie by Pennance because no man comes to an Armie without an Ensigne there is also the Sacrament of Baptisme and lastly those that depart from their Armie are serued with extreme Vnction I could adde to these mysticall conceits the testimony of Saint Iohn he tels vs there is a woman in whose forehead a name was written Mysterie he tels vs further Reuel 17. this woman had seuen heads and these seuen heads are seuen Mountaines on which the woman sitteth or as Victorinus expounds it on which the Citie of Rome sitteth Fulk in Reuel 17.7 but I confesse I am no way delighted with such conceits especially in a point of their faith which they beleeue concernes their saluation Yet this I say if the beleefe of our two Sacraments had beene grounded vpon such reasons it had beene as easie a matter for vs to haue proued a mysterie in the number of two for there are two great Lights there are two Tables of the Law two Cherubins two Trumpets two Swords two Witnesses but chiefely two Testaments and from them onely wee produce our two Sacraments If wee consider therefore this Article of the Romane faith both as it wants proofe of the ancient Fathers in the affirmatiue and as it is declined by the latter Schoolemen in the Negatiue our aduersaries shall haue little cause to denie the Visibilitie of our Church for our two and lesse reason to bragge of their markes of antiquity and vniuersality in the faith of their seuen Touching our two they were anciently beleeued and are receiued by them and vs for true and proper Sacraments of the Church touching Confirmation Penance Orders Matrimony they are receiued by the Church of Rome and vs but with this difference they are decreed by them for true and proper Sacraments they are receiued and allowed by vs for rites and Ordinances in our Church Touching the two first they are knowne and certaine because they were primarily ordained by Christ himself touching the other fiue they had not that immediate Institution from Christ and thereupon the learned Cardinall is forced to confesse The sacred things which the Sacraments of the new Law signifie De Baptismo Eucharistia res notissima est de alijs Sacramentis non est ita notum Bellar. de Sacram. in genere lib. 1. cap. 9. are threefold the Grace of Iustification the Passion of Christ and eternall life touching Baptisme and the Eucharist the thing is most euident concerning the other fiue it is not so certaine Since therefore some of there best learned denie that all the seuen Sacraments were instituted by Christ others acknowledge they are not all true and proper Sacraments of the new Law others confesse that there owne fiue are not so certaine as our two Saint Austins confession shall bee my conclusion If we August contr Petil. lib. 3. c. 6. or an Angell from heauen preach vnto you any thing concerning faith and life besides that you haue receiued in the Legall and Euangelicall Scriptures let him be accursed PARAG. 5. Communion in both kindes IT is the sixt Article of the Romane Creed I confesse that vnder one kinde onely all and whole Christ and the true Sacrament is receiued This halfe Communion is created or declared for an article of faith and this article of faith is lately descended from the Councell of Consâ—ance 1400 yeares after Christ Concil Constam an 1414 in which Councell it was declared that Christ did institute in both kindes and the Primitiue Church did continue it to the faithfull in both kinds but for weightie reasons as they terme them contrary to Christs institution and the practise of all antiquity they decreed a halfe communion with this Caution Concil Constant Sess 13 that if any should say it was vnlawfull or erroneous to receiue in one kinde he ought to be punished and driuen out as an heretique So that by the Decree with a Non obstante in the Canon that is notwithstanding Christ did institute in both kindes and the Primitiue Church receiue it I say from that time as it were in despight of God and man the whole communion was adiudged Heresie Gerson de heres communicandi sub vtraque speciè and which is most remarkeable this Councell by reason the first sessions iudged the Councell aboue the Pope those first sessions were condemned and reiected by the Councell of Florence Hoc conciliuÌ„ quantum ad primas Sessiones vbi definit Concilium esse siopra Papam reprobatur vt est in Concilio Florentino quantum ad vltimas Sessiones ea omnia que probauit Martin 5. ab omnibus Catholicis recipitur and the last Councel of Lateran but for the last sessions wherein the communion in both kinds was adiudged hereticall although it were contrarie to Christs precept and his holy Institution the Councell in this point was allowed by Pope Martin the Fifth and saith Bellarmine Bellar de Cocil Eccles lib. 1. cap. 7. §. Quintum Acts 3 14. ab omnibus Catholicis recipitur it is receiued of all Catholiques neither can the Councell of Trent pleade ignorance that they know not Christs InstitutioÌ„ for they pursue the decrees of the former Councell and declare in like manner Although our Sauiour did exhibit in both kindes Concil Trid. cap. 3. yet if any shall say the holy Catholique Church was not induced for iust causes to communicate the lay people and the non Conficient Priest vnder one kinde viz. of bread onely Can. 2. and shall say they erred in so doing let him be accursed Hee that shall heare two great Councels the one accusing the other accursing all for heretiques that denie the vnlawfullnesse of one kinde would gladly know what were those causes and reasons that induced the Romane Church to decree flatly against Christs precept and the example of the Primitiue Churh If neither the words Drinke yee all of this nor Doe this in remembrance of me are binding precepts as without doubt they are must therefore Priests and people bee adiudged heretiques and accursed Christians because they follow Christs example It is not to be doubted but that is best and fittest to bee practised which Christ himselfe hath done Bellar. de Euchar. lib. 4. c. 7. This is Bellarmines Confession this is ours besides how the Church of Rome should create or declare a point of faith manifestly repugnant to Christs Word and his Institution and contrarie to the practise of the Primitiue Church and yet retaine the proper markes of their Church which are Antiquitie vniuersality and
Legall and Euangelicall Scriptures let him bee accursed PARAG. 8. Indulgences IT is the Tenth Article of the Romane Creed I must firmely auouch that the power of Indulgences was left by Christ to the Church and I affirme the vse thereof to be most wholesome for Christs people This doctrine was proclaimed by the Councell of Trent Cum Potestas conferendi Jndulgenti as à Christo Ecclesiae concessa sit atque huiusmodi potestatem sibi tradita c. Concil Tridenâ— Sess 25. DecretuÌ„ de Jndulgentijs where it was likewise declared that whereas Christ did leaue Indulgences to the Church and the Church did vse that diuine power so granted in ancient times therefore the sacred Councell doth teach and command them to bee retained in the Church and condemne all them with a curse which either terme them vnprofitable or denie the Churches authority to grant them A reason no doubt sufficient for the Church of Rome to grant them and to lay Anathema vpon all such as shall denie them since Christ did first ordaine them and the Ancient Fathers did exercise that power committed to them by Christ but when we come to examination of Witnesses notwithstanding the Popes Creed and the Councels Decree it will bee found that neither Christ nor the Primitiue Fathers euer knew much lesse exercised such pardons and Indulgences as are now daily practised in the Church of Rome In the Primitiue Church when the Christians had committed any capitall and heinous offence for feare of persecution either in deniall of their faith or in sacrificing vnto Idols the parties were inioyned a seuere and long Penance the rigour of this punishment the Bishops and Pastors of their seuerall congregations had power if they saw cause to mitigate at their discretion which mitigation or relaxation of punishment was called by the name of Pardon or Indulgence This doctrine was deriued from Saint Paul who released the incestuous Corinthian from the bond of excommunication vpon his humiliation and serious repentance and writes vnto the Corinthians that they should doe the like and receiue him againe to their communion least he should be swallowed vp with immoderate griefe and this manner of Indulgence was ancient and continued long in the Church and of this there is no question Indulgentia propriè est absolutio Iudiciaria annexam habens solutionem ex Thesauro Bellâ—â—de Jndulg lib. 1. cap 5. The Indulgence in the Romane Church is an absolution from the guilt of temporall punishment by the application of the merits of Christ and his Saints which merits are termed Thesaurus Ecclesiae the Treasurie of the Church and this common Treasury of satisfactions is applyed to dead soules burning in Purgatory Thus Indulgences which were first vsed for mirigation of punishments are now reduced to priuate satisfactions and that which was formerly left to the discretion of euery Bishop in his owne Dyoces to dispense with summum Ius the extremity of the Law is now transferred wholy to the power and authority of the Pope nor that onely for some few yeares imprisonment in this life but for thousands of yeares in Purgatory after death insomuch that whosoeuer in the state of Grace shall say seuen prayers before the Crucifix Horae beatae Maria Virg secundum vsum sacruÌ„ and seuen Pater-Nosters and seuen Aue-Maries shall attaine six and fiftie thousand yeares of pardon fourteene thousand granted by Saint Gregory fourteene thousand by Nicholas the First and eight and twenty thousand by Sixtus the Fourth These and the like Indulgences were trained vp in the Schoole of Demetrius which brought no small benefit to the Pope and Clergie and therefore their owne Schoolemen Greg. de Valent cap. 2. Gregorie de Valentia termes them but a kinde of godly deceit wherewith the Church doth drawe men vnto some kinde of actions of deuotion euen as a Father when he moueth a little childe to runne promiseth him an apple which notwithstanding he doth not giue him But I will proceede to the publication of Witnesses whereby it shall appeare by the euidence of their owne Learned men that this point of faith hath no more Antiquity and consent of Fathers and Schoolemen in the Romane Church then the Articles before confessed De Jndulgentijs pauca dici possunt per certitudinem quia nec scriptura expresse de ijs loquitur sancti etiam Ambrosius Hilarius c. minime loquutur de Indulgentijs Durand 49. Sentent dist 20. q. 3. Indulgentiae authoritate Scripturae no innoture nobis sed authoritate Ecclesiae Romanae Romanorum Pontificum quae maior est authoritas Prier contr Luth. pro Indulg Difficile est modum Jndulgentiarum fundare authenticè in Scriptura Sacra c. Maior 4. d. 2. q 3. Durand Little can bee said of any certainty or as vndoubtedly true of Indulgences and pardons seeing the Scriptures speake not expressely of them neither the Fathers as Augustine Hillarie Ambrose Hierome c. Siluester Prierias Pardon 's are not knowne to vs by the authority of the Scriptures but by the authority of the Church of Rome and the Popes which is greater then the authoritie of the Scriptures Maior It is hard to ground the manner of Indulgences authentically in Scriptures in token of which the three first Doctors of the Church haue spoken but little Roffensis Bishop of Rochester It is not sufficiently manifest from whom Indulgâ—nces had their Originall Roffens Quamdiis nulla fuerat de Purgatorio cura nemo quaesiuâ— Indulgentias nam ex illo pendet omnit Indulgentiarum aesti matio caeperunt igitur Indulgentiae postquam ad Purgatorij cruciatus aliquaÌ„dò trepidatum erat Roffens art 18. contrà Lutherum Of Purgatorie there is very little or no mention amongst the ancient Fathers but after Purgatorie began to terrifie the world and after a while men had trembled at the torments thereof Indulgences began to be in request as long as Purgatorie was not cared for there was no man sought for Pardons for the whole price of pardons hangeth on Purgatory take away Purgatory and what shall we neede of Pardons harum vsus in Ecclesia serò receptus Alph. contr heres 8. verbo Jndulgentia Alphonsus a Castro There is nothing in Scripture lesse opened or whereof the Ancient Fathers haue lesse written then of Indulgences and it seemes the vse of them came but lately into the Church Antoninus There is not any expresse testimonie for proofe of Indulgences De Indulgentijs nâ—l expressè habemus in sacra Scriptura nec etiam c. Anton. part 1. ut 10 cap. 3. in principio De ortu JndulgentiaruÌ„ si certitudo habere possit veritatis indagandae opeÌ„ ferret verum quia nullâ—e Scripturae Sacra nulla priscorum Doctorum Graecorum aut LatinoruÌ„ authoritas Scripta haec ad nostram de duxit notiâ—iam Caiet opus 15. c. 1. Neque mirum videri debet si authores anti quiores non multos habemur qui
prayer in an vnknowne tongue they confessed it was not vsed in the Primitiue antient Church but say they the prayer and seruice was vsually taught in the vulgar and knowne tongue In this confession they intimate the noueltie and vncertaintie of their owne doctrine and in this acknowledgement they witnesse the antiquitie and visibilitie of our Church long before Luthers dayes Touching Adoration of Images they confessed that there is no expresse place of Scripture that commands their worship they confessed there is no example amongst the Fathers for their adoration but rather against them and in these confessions they intimate the noueltie and vncertaintie of their owne doctrine and practise and in our worshipping of God in spirit and truth they acknowledge the antiquitie of our Religion and the visibilitie of our Church long before Luthers dayes Lastly touching Indulgences and Pardons they confessed that their Indulgences now vsed haue no authoritie from Scriptures or Fathers and in this confession they intimate the noueltie and vncertaintie of their owne doctrine and consequently the Indulgences which wee vse for no other end then the mitigation and relaxation of punishment to haue had antiquitie and visibilitie in the Church long before Luthers dayes If these witnesses had been ignorant or excommunicate persons in their owne Church or had they witnessed the truth in ceremonies and things doubtfull there might bee some plea why their testimonies should not be admitted but when the points in question are Articles of their owne Creed when they are witnessed by Popes by Councels by Cardinals by Bishops by learned Doctors and Schoolemen in their owne Church in our behalfe and against their owne Tenets I see no cause why I should not demand iudgement in defence of our Church and triall of our cause It is the law of God and man Ex ore tuo I will iudge thee out of thine owne mouth and from this decree and their owne confessions vpon record I call men and Angels to witnesse that they haue denyed antiquitie and vniuersality to the Articles of their own Creed and haue resolued the grand question touching our Church before Luther that it was in Christ in the Apostles in the Fathers in the bosome of the Ancient Church long before Luthers dayes Sect. 10. The Testimonies of our Aduersaries touching the infallible certaintie of the Protestant faith and the vncertaintie of the Romish OF what strength and force is truth it appeares by this that she extorts a full and ample testimony of her doctrine from her sworne enemies and yet for further proofe of our cause I will giue another summons to the prime men euen of their grand Inquest who without partialitie will testifie in our behalfe that our Church is built vpon a more stable and sure foundation then the Papacie and that our doctrine is more fruitfull and profitable and euery way more safe and comfortable for the beleefe of euery Christian and the saluation of the beleeuer Touching the certaintie of faith it is Bellarmines confession Bellar. de Jnstit lib. 3. cap. 8. None can be certaine of the certaintie of faith that hee doth receiue a true Sacrament for as much as the Sacrament cannot be made without the intention of the Minister and none can see another mans intention This confession being layed for a positiue ground of their Religion the Church of Rome hath ouer throwne in one Tenet all certaintie of true faith To begin with the Sacrament of Baptisme If the Priests intention faile by their doctrine the Insant is not baptized he is but as a Heathen out of the Church and consequently in the state of damnation Looke vpon their Sacrament of Orders it is the confession of learned Bellar mine Bellar. de Milit Eccles ca. 10. ad secundum If we consider in Bishops their power of Ordination and Iurisdiction we haue no more then a Morall certaintie that they are true Bishops and there he giues the reason for it Because the Sacrament of Orders depends vpon the Intention of the ordeiner Looke vpon the Sacrament of Matrimony and of this there is no certaintie because it doth depend vpon the Intention of the Minister and if he faile in his Intention at the time of solemnization the married people liue all their dayes in adulterie so that by their owne confession there is no certaintie of Christianitie by Baptisme no certaintie of their Sacrament of Orders and consequently no certaintie of succession in person which they so much magnifie in their Church besides if in the whole succession of Popes and Pastors the Intention of any one Priest did faile either in Baptisme or in Orders all succeeding generations that ordaine and consecrate both Priest and people are become vtterly voide and of none effect He that is bound vpon a curse to beleeue seuen Sacraments and yet is not certaine of any one must be saued by an implicit faith and yet it is to be feared for want of their Priests intention the poore ignorant soule doth sometimes worship a peece of bread because the consecration of Christs body depends say they vpon the intention of the Priest and no man doth know another mans intention Againe touching their Inuocation of Saints they are vncertain whether the Saints do heare their prayers they are vncertaine whether some they pray vnto be Saints in heauen or Diuels in hell Touching the first Biel. in Câ—n. Missae Lect. 28. Pet. Lomb. Senten lib. 4. dist 45. It is not certaine saith Biel but it may seeme probable that God reuealeth vnto Saints all those suits which men present vnto them and saith Peter Lombard It is not incredible that the soules of Saints heare the prayers of the suppliants Here is nothing but probabilitie and vncertaintie and yet admit it were more then probable that they did heare our prayers yet there is no certaintie that al such are Saints which are canonized by the Romane Church Accedit quod miracula quae ab Ecclesiae suscipiuntur in Canonizationibus sanctorum quae tamen maximè authentica sunt cum humano testimonio innitantur non omnino certa sunt quoniaÌ„ c. Caret in epusc de concep Virg. Mar. ca. 1. Fidei Christianae certitudo non humano morâ— certa esse debet sed infallibile omnino debet habere testimonium Caret ibid. It cannot be knowne infallibly saith Caietan that the miracles whereon the Church groundeth the Canonization of Saints bee true by reason the credit thereof depends on the reports of men who may deceiue others and bee deceiued themselues And vpon this vncertaintie Saint Austin complained in his dayes That many were tormented with the diuell who were worshipped by men on earth Whose reason and authoritie was so vndoubtedly true Bellar. de sanct Beat. lib. 1. c. 9. that Bellarmine had no way to auoide it but with a Fortasse c. Peraduenture saith he it is none of Austins and yet if Bellarmines answer were true which is but
duo sola Sacramenta in Euangelijs maenifesté tradita legimus Bessa de Sacram. Euchar for he fully concludeth with the Protestants We reade of two onely Sacraments which were deliuered vs plainely in the Gospell I need not insist much vpon the deniall of the certaine and definite number of seuen Sacraments knowne to the Fathers for Cardinall Bellarmine by way of preuention giues vs to vnderstand that The Protestants ought not to require of them to shew the number of seuen Sacraments either in Scriptures or Fathers Non debere adversarios petere vt ostēdamus in Scripturis aut Patribus nomen Septena rij numeri Sacramentorū Nam nec ipsi ostendere possunt nomen binarij vel ternarij vel quaternarij Scriptura enim Patres non c. Bellar. de effectu Sacr. lib. 2. c. 24. Satis esse debet quod Patres in varijs locis aut certè varij Patres eiusdem aetatis omnium septem Sacramētorum alicubi meminerint Idem ca. 27. for that we cannot shew the number of two nor three nor foure besides it is sufficient saith he that the Fathers in diuerse places and diuerse Fathers of the same Age in some place make mention of those Sacraments The number therefore by our Adueruersaries confession is not to be expected in the Primitiue Church and therefore it is more to bee wondred why the Romane Church should impose the peremptorie number of seuen with a curse vpon al them that beleeue them not If the Fathers had made mention of the seuen Trent Sacraments onely although they had neuer mentioned the number of seuen there might haue beene some plea for the number also but when they call many things by the names of Sacraments which had a mysticall sence because they were types and figures of holy things nay more when they did insist sometimes in the number of two and so restrained the proper Sacraments of the Church to the definite number of two onely It is no way probable that those fiue Sacraments were of other account with them then other holy things which they called Sacraments for had the Fathers beleeued that those Sacraments had beene instituted by Christ as the Church of Rome doth they would of necessity concluded them for true and proper Sacraments of the Church and then without doubt the Fathers who were elegant in the application of such mysteries would haue easily found in them the mysterie of the number seuen Saint Ambrose in his Treatise of the Sacraments diuided into sixe bookes makes no mention but of two and in his first booke and first Chapter proclaimes to the beleeuers of his age De Sacramentis quae accepistis sermonem adorior I speake of the Sacraments which you haue receiued that is to say of those two Sacraments which the Church hath taught and declared vnto you and that you may rightly vnderstand what the Roman Church professed concerning the number of Sacraments in those dayes Quaedā pauca pro multu c. August de doct Christ li. 3. c. 9. Saint Austin tels vs Our Lord and his Apostles haue deliuered vnto vs a few Sacraments instead of many and the same in doing most easie in signification most excellent in obseruation most reuerend as is the Sacrament of Baptisme and the celebration of the body and bloud of our Lord and lastly concludeth them both in the number of two August de Symbol ad Catechum Haec sunt Ecclesiae gemina Sacramenta These be the two Sacraments of the Church Tunc demum planè sanctificari esse filij Dei possunt si vtroque Sacramento nascantur Cypr. li. 2. Ep. 1. ad Steph. If we looke beyond those times Saint Cyprian that blessed Martyr liued and dyed in the faith of two Sacraments onely Then saith he may we be throughly sanctified and become the children of God si vtroque Sacramento c. if we bee borne by both the Sacraments If we looke below them Fulbertus Bishop of Chartres shewes vs the way of Christian Religion Fulbertus Epist 1. is to beleeue the Trinitie and veritie of the Deitie to know the cause of his Baptisme and in whom duo vitae Sacramenta the two Sacraments of our life are contained And in the time of Charles the Great Sunt Sacramenta Christi in Ecclesiâ Catholica Baptismus corpus sanguis Christi Paschas de caena Domini Paschasius an Abbat speakes plainely and in few words These be the Sacraments of Christ in the Catholique Church Baptisme and the bodie and bloud of Christ And lastly Bessarion their owne Bishop of Tusculum professeth to all his Romish Proselites Wee reade of onely two Sacraments which were plainely deliuered in the Gospell These learned Doctors rested in the faith of two Sacraments in their dayes and yet notwithstanding called many things by the names of Sacraments Signa cum ad res diuinas adhibentur Sacramenta vocantur Aug de doct Christ l. 3. c. 6. and the reason is giuen by Saint Austin Signes when they be applyed to godly things bee called Sacraments and in this sort many rites ordinances in the Church are called Sacraments because they signifie some holy thing Aug. de bono coniugali cap 18. August in Psal 141. Aug lib. 4. de symbol c. 1. Aug. lib. 2. de pec merit remis ca. 26. Polygamie or marriage of many wiues Saint Austin cals a Sacrament as signifying the multitude of the Gentiles that should bee subiect to God Againe he termeth the signe of the crosse Exorcisme Holy bread giuen to the Catechumenists beginners in the faith by the names of Sacraments Alex. 1. Ep. 1. ca. 5. Pope Alexander the first Ambros li. 3. de Sacram. c. 1 Cypri Serm de lotion pedum Bernard de coena Domini cals Holy water a Sacrament Saint Ambrose Cyprian and Bernard cals Ablutio pedum washing of the Apostles feet a Sacrament Tertullian calleth the whole state of Christian faith a Sacrament Religionis Christianae Sacramentū Tertul. li. 4 contr Marcionem Sacramentū orationis Sacramentum esuritionis Sacramentū Scripturarū Sacramentū fletu◠Sacramentum sitis Hila. in Mat. Canon 11. 12. Canon 23. Saint Hilarie in sundry places speaketh of the Sacrament of prayer the Sacrament of fasting the Sacrament of the Scriptures the Sacrament of weeping the Sacrament of thirst And Saint Hierome speaking of the booke of the Reuelation tells vs there are in it Tot Sacramenta quot verba as many Sacraments as words All these and many like signes and mysteries were called Sacraments by the Ancients and yet are none of the seuen Sacraments which the Church of Rome holdeth so that if euerie ordinance called a mysterie or a Sacrament in Scriptures and Fathers make a true Sacrament they may decree seuentie Sacraments as well as seuen As these men therefore cannot denie there is mention of the number of two Sacraments in the Fathers and not of seuen so likewise we
for contention a wood of theeues e Canus li 3. c. 2 a shop of heretiques imperfect doubtfull obscure f Gladius delphicus Regula Lesbia calceus vtrique pediaptus folis Sybillae Sphyngiâ— aenigmata materia litis full of perplexities And saith Pigghius as one hath truly and merrily said the Scripture is like a nose of waxe f Turrianus aduersus Sadeclum pa. 99. g Luâ—us Praedonum officina haereticorum g Charon de tribus vertitatibus p. 220. h Jmperfecta dubia obscura ambigua perplexa h Lessius in consult que fides sit capescenda Ration 11. p. 127. p. 128. Sunt Scripturae vt non minus verè quum festiue dixit quidam velut nasus cereus qui se horsuÌ„ illorsum quamcunque volueris partem trabi retrahi fingique facile permittit Piggh. Hierarch li. 3. cap. 3. that easily suffereth it selfe to bee drawne backward and forward to bee moulded and fashioned this way and that way and howsoeuer yee list What further need haue we of witnesses behold you haue heard their blasphemy It is no wonder that Robertus Tuitiensis cryed out before the Pope Eras de rat conc l. 3. Fie vpon Peter Fie vpon Paul when these men dare deliuer such accursed speeches against the whole body of the Scriptures Certainely the Archangell contending with the diuell durst not bring against him such railing accusations as these men contending with vs haue brought against the truth of God and his heauenly word If wee cite the Fathers they are sleighted by them or reiected as counterfeit if wee cite Berengarius the Waldenses and the like they are charged with heresie and therefore their testimonies are not authenticall if we produce their owne Doctors and Schoolemen as Testes veritatis witnesses of Gods truth in the bosome of a corrupt Church these men say they are Catholique Authors but they stand not Recti in Curiâ they are too lauish of their tongues and therefore they must be purged If we cite the Scriptures they answer they are vnperfect they are a subiect of debate and contention a couert for theeues and a shop for heretiques Giue me leaue therefore to vse the words of Campian Camp Ret. 2. Can I imagine any of you to be so stuffed in the nose that being forewarned cannot quickely smell out this subtile iugling Can these men challenge succession in person and doctrine from Christ and his Apostles can they vaunt of the generall consent of all the Fathers can they glory in the vnitie and vniuersality of all Romish proselites in their owne Church when they come to the tryall of their cause will they decline the Scriptures as vnperfect the Fathers as counterfeit the Protestants as hereticks and their owne writers as erronious If these men would maintaine no other Tenet but this alone The Scripture is vnperfect they shall neuer bee able to prooue their doctrine Apostolique nor their Church Catholique but to waue the Scriptures and Fathers and writers as vnperfect and yet to crie out with the father of lyes All is mine this is a proper peece of policie to delude the ignorant and deceiue their owne soules For the truth is howsoeuer they pretend that the sound of their Romane faith goeth throgh the world yet the emptiest vessels make the greatest sound there silencing of Scriptures and purging of learned writers argues a distrust in their own cause and a feare lest the truth should appeare nay more Chrys in opere imperfecto Homil. 44. S. Chrysostome rightly obserued the like practise amongst the hereticall priests in his dayes and giues a further reason why the priests led the people by an implicit faith and shut vp the gate of truth Chrysost in Opere imperfect Homil. 44. For saith hee they know that if the Truth be once layed open their Church shall be forsaken and they from their pontificall dignitie shall be brought downe to the basenesse of the people This reason is so truly accomplished amongst the Romanists in these dayes Scomberg that their owne Cardinall as I haue shewed withstood the reformation of knowne errors in the Romane Church especially for this cause lest it should endanger the whole state of the Romane Church Sect. 15. Our chiefest Aduersarie Cardinal Bellarmine testifies the truth of our doctrine in the principall points of controuersie betwixt vs. BVt admit our Translation of the Scriptures were vnperfect the Fathers doubtfull the Romish writers not refined by the Inquisitors for weightie reasons best knowne vnto themselues were to bee reiected yet I hope they will giue vs leaue to produce such writers against whom they take no exception I will present vnto them their owne Cardinall Bellarmine who I thinke was the first and best that wrote the whole body of Controuersies on their side let him I say be conuented and examined without partialitie and it shall appeare vpon a reuiew that in the principall points of difference betwixt vs he is inforced to confesse the antiquitie and safety of our doctrine and plainely to acknowledge the vncertaintie and nouelty of his owne First touching the vncertaintie of all the Trent Sacraments it is Bellarmines confession Bell. de Iustif l. 3. c. 8. None can be certaine of the certaintie of faith that he doth receiue a true Sacrament because it depends vpon the intention of the Minister and none can know another mans intention Touching the succession in person it is Bellarmines confession Idem de Milit Eccles ca. 10. There is no certaintie of ordination because the Sacrament of Orders depends vpon the intention of the Ordeyner Touching Transubstantiation it is Bellarmines confession Idem de Euchar lib. 3. cap. 23. it is not improbable that there is no expresse place of Scripture to prooue it and it may bee doubted whether the Text will beare it Touching Priuate Masse it is Bellarmines confession JdeÌ„ de Missa li. 2. cap. 9. cap. 10. That is a more perfect and lawfull Masse wherein priests and people communicate together Neither is there any expresse mention amongst the ancients where none did communicate but the Priest alone but by coniectures Touching our prayer in a knowne tongue it is Bellarmines confession in the Primitiue Church when the Christians were but few Idem de verâ—o Dei li. 2. cap. 16. they did all sing and answer one Amen at the time of diuine Seruice Touching our Communion in both kinds Idem de Euchar l. 4. c. 24 it is Bellarmines confession Christ did institute in both kinds and the ancient Church did administer vnder both kindes but the multitude increasing the inconuenience appeared more and more and by degrees the vse of both kinds ceased Touching our two Sacraments it is Bellarmines confession Jdem de Sacrament in genere li. 1. c. 9. As for baptisme and the Eucharist the thing is most euident concerning the other fiue it is not so certaine