any_o thing_n of_o that_o kind_n to_o the_o uncertainty_n of_o a_o occasional_a meeting_n 3_o the_o apostle_n be_v free_o present_a in_o any_o presbytery_n where_o they_o be_v for_o the_o time_n because_o the_o oversight_n and_o care_n of_o all_o the_o church_n be_v lay_v upon_o they_o pastor_n and_o elder_n be_v necessary_o present_a therein_o and_o do_v by_o virtue_n of_o their_o particular_a vocation_n meet_v together_o presbyterial_o whether_o a_o apostle_n be_v with_o they_o or_o not_o no_o other_o sense_n can_v the_o text_n suffer_v but_o that_o by_o presbytery_n we_o shall_v understand_v consessus_fw-la presbyterorum_fw-la a_o meeting_n of_o elder_n and_o so_o do_v camero_n and_o forbesse_n themselves_o expound_v it_o sutlivius_n object_v to_o the_o contrary_a that_o the_o apostle_n paul_n do_v lay_v on_o hand_n upon_o timothy_n which_o he_o prove_v both_o from_o 2._o tim._n 1._o and_o because_o extraordinary_a gift_n be_v give_v by_o that_o lay_n on_o of_o hand_n ans._n there_o be_v a_o express_a difference_n make_v betwixt_o paul_n lay_v on_o of_o his_o hand_n and_o the_o presbytery_n lay_v on_o of_o their_o hand_n of_o the_o former_a it_o be_v say_v that_o timothy_n receive_v the_o gift_n which_o be_v in_o he_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d by_o the_o lay_n on_o of_o paul_n hand_n but_o he_o receive_v the_o gift_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d with_o the_o lay_n on_o of_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o presbytery_n as_o didoclavius_n note_v but_o say_v sutlivius_n timothy_n be_v a_o evangelist_n as_o you_o hold_v how_o can_v he_o be_v ordain_v by_o the_o presbytery_n ans._n 1._o though_o the_o presbytery_n do_v neither_o give_v he_o ordination_n to_o be_v a_o evangelist_n nor_o yet_o confer_v by_o the_o lay_n on_o of_o their_o hand_n extraordinary_a gift_n upon_o he_o yet_o do_v they_o lie_v on_o their_o hand_n as_o set_v to_o the_o the_o seal_n and_o testimony_n and_o commend_v he_o to_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n even_o as_o certain_a prophet_n and_o teacher_n lay_v hand_n on_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n and_o ananias_n also_o before_o that_o time_n have_v lay_v his_o hand_n upon_o paul_n 2._o the_o presbytery_n may_v ordain_v timothy_n to_o be_v a_o elder_a if_o so_o be_v he_o be_v ordain_v a_o elder_a before_o he_o be_v ordain_v a_o evangelist_n 3._o if_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o presbytery_n by_o the_o lay_n on_o of_o their_o hand_n together_o with_o the_o apostle_n hand_n in_o the_o extraordinary_a mission_n of_o timothy_n be_v require_v much_o more_o may_v it_o be_v put_v out_o of_o question_n that_o the_o apostle_n commit_v to_o the_o presbytery_n the_o full_a power_n of_o ordain_v ordinary_a minister_n but_o it_o be_v further_o object_v by_o sutlivius_n that_o this_o can_v not_o be_v such_o a_o presbytery_n as_o be_v among_o we_o because_o ordination_n and_o imposition_n of_o hand_n pertain_v to_o none_o but_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o word_n 8.10_o ans._n 1._o the_o child_n of_o israel_n lay_v their_o hand_n upon_o the_o levite_n &_o we_o will_v know_v his_o reason_n why_o he_o deny_v the_o like_a power_n to_o rule_v elder_n now_o especial_o since_o this_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v but_o a_o gesture_n of_o one_o pray_v and_o a_o moral_a sign_n declare_v the_o person_n pray_v for_o 2._o howsoever_o our_o practice_n whâ—ch_n be_v also_o approve_a by_o good_a divine_n be_v 37._o to_o put_v a_o difference_n betwixt_o the_o act_n of_o ordination_n and_o the_o external_a right_n thereof_o which_o be_v imposition_n of_o hand_n ascribe_v the_o former_a to_o the_o whole_a presbytery_n both_o pastor_n and_o elder_n and_o reserve_v the_o latter_a to_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o word_n yet_o to_o be_v do_v in_o the_o name_n of_o all_o thus_o have_v we_o evince_v the_o apostle_n meaning_n when_o he_o speak_v of_o a_o presbytery_n and_o this_o consistory_n we_o find_v to_o have_v continue_v in_o the_o christian_a church_n in_o the_o age_n after_o the_o apostle_n it_o be_v certain_a that_o the_o ancient_a bishop_n have_v no_o power_n to_o judge_v any_o cause_n without_o the_o presence_n advice_n and_o counsel_n of_o their_o presbyter_n conc._n carth._n 4._o can_n 23._o field_n forbesse_n saravia_n and_o douname_n do_v all_o acknowledge_v that_o it_o be_v so_o and_o so_o do_v bellarmine_n de_fw-fr pont._n rom._n l._n 1._o c._n 8._o of_o this_o presbytery_n speak_v cyprian_a omni_fw-la actu_fw-la ad_fw-la i_o perlato_fw-la placuit_fw-la contrahi_fw-la presbyterium_fw-la etc._n etc._n of_o the_o presbytery_n speak_v the_o same_o cyprian_a lib._n 2._o ep._n 8._o &_o lib._n 4._o ep._n 5._o ignatius_n ad_fw-la trall_n and_o hierom_n in_o esa._n 3_o we_o find_v it_o also_o in_o conc_fw-fr ancyr_n can_v 18_o and_o in_o conc_fw-fr carthag_n 4._o can_n 35.40_o 254.255_o doctor_n forbesse_n allege_v that_o the_o word_n presbytery_n for_o fifteen_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n do_v signify_v no_o other_o thing_n in_o the_o church_n than_o a_o diocesan_n synod_n but_o herein_o if_o he_o have_v understand_v himself_o he_o speak_v not_o so_o much_o against_o presbytery_n as_o against_o prelate_n for_o a_o diocese_n of_o old_a be_v bound_v within_o one_o city_n 2._o tumque_fw-la jampridem_fw-la per_fw-la omnes_fw-la provincias_fw-la &_o per_fw-la urbes_fw-la singulas_fw-la ordinati_fw-la sint_fw-la episcopi_fw-la etc._n etc._n say_v cyprian_n it_o be_v necessary_a to_o ordain_v bishop_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 10._o say_v chrysostome_n speak_v of_o the_o primitive_a time_n yea_o in_o country_n village_n also_o be_v bishop_n who_o be_v call_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d that_o be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d rural_a bishop_n who_o episcopal_a office_n though_o limit_v yet_o be_v allow_v in_o the_o council_n of_o ancyra_n can_v 13._o and_o the_o council_n of_o antioch_n can_v 8._o &_o 10._o 4._o sozomen_n record_v that_o the_o village_n majuma_n which_o be_v sometime_o a_o suburb_n of_o the_o city_n gaza_n be_v not_o subject_a to_o the_o bishop_n of_o gaza_n but_o have_v its_o own_o proper_a bishop_n and_o that_o by_o the_o decree_n of_o a_o synod_n in_o palestina_n the_o council_n of_o sardis_n can_v 6._o and_o the_o council_n of_o laodicea_n can_v 57_o though_o they_o discharge_v the_o ordain_v of_o bishop_n in_o village_n lest_o the_o name_n of_o a_o bishop_n shall_v grow_v contemptible_a do_v nevertheless_o allow_v every_o city_n to_o have_v a_o bishop_n of_o its_o own_o what_o have_v doctor_n forbesse_n now_o gain_v by_o maintain_v that_o the_o bound_n of_o a_o presbytery_n and_o of_o a_o diocese_n be_v all_o one_o they_o in_o the_o netherlâ—nds_n sometime_o call_v their_o presbytery_n diocaeses_n 100.101_o and_o many_o of_o our_o presbytery_n be_v great_a than_o be_v diocese_n of_o old_a we_o conclude_v there_o be_v ancient_o a_o presbytery_n in_o every_o city_n which_o do_v indeed_o choose_v one_o of_o their_o number_n to_o preside_v among_o they_o and_o to_o lay_v on_o hand_n in_o name_n of_o the_o rest_n and_o he_o be_v call_v the_o bishop_n wherein_o they_o do_v more_o trust_n the_o deceivable_a goodness_n of_o their_o own_o intention_n then_o advert_v to_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n these_o thing_n premit_v i_o come_v now_o to_o that_o which_o be_v principal_o intend_v viz._n by_o what_o warrant_n and_o quâ—_n jure_v the_o classical_a presbytery_n among_o we_o make_v up_o out_o of_o many_o neighbour_a congregation_n shall_v be_v the_o ordinary_a court_n of_o ecclesiastical_a jurisdiction_n at_o least_o in_o all_o matter_n of_o high_a importance_n which_o do_v concern_v either_o all_o or_o any_o of_o those_o congregation_n for_o resolution_n hereof_o we_o must_v understand_v 1._o that_o cause_v common_a to_o many_o congregation_n ought_v not_o to_o be_v judge_v by_o any_o one_o of_o they_o but_o by_o the_o great_a presbytery_n common_a to_o they_o all_o 2._o it_o be_v to_o be_v suppose_v that_o particular_a congregation_n at_o least_o the_o far_o great_a part_n of_o they_o have_v not_o in_o their_o proper_a eldership_n so_o many_o man_n of_o sufficient_a ability_n as_o be_v requisite_a in_o judge_v and_o determine_v the_o case_n of_o the_o examination_n of_o minister_n of_o ordination_n deposition_n excommunication_n and_o the_o like_a 3._o when_o one_o appeal_v from_o a_o particular_a eldership_n out_o of_o persuasion_n that_o he_o be_v wrong_v by_o the_o sentence_n thereof_o or_o when_o that_o eldership_n find_v its_o own_o insufficiency_n for_o determine_v some_o difficult_a cause_n resolve_v to_o refer_v the_o same_o into_o a_o high_a court_n reason_n will_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v a_o ordinary_a court_n of_o a_o classical_a presbytery_n to_o receive_v such_o appellation_n or_o reference_n 4._o congregation_n which_o lie_v near_o together_o ought_v all_o as_o one_o to_o keep_v unity_n and_o conformity_n in_o church_n policy_n and_o government_n neither_o ought_v one_o of_o they_o be_v permit_v to_o do_v a_o
the_o conâ—esâ—ion_n of_o our_o opposite_n for_o roll_a elder_n the_o office_n of_o rule_v elder_n be_v not_o only_o maintain_v by_o 〈◊〉_d cartâ—right_n aâ—â—rsâ—_n bucerâ—â—_n and_o other_o who_o our_o opposite_n will_v call_v partial_a writer_n let_v he_o who_o please_v read_v the_o commentary_n of_o martyr_n 〈◊〉_d gualther_n hemmingius_n piscator_fw-la paraus_n upon_o rom._n 12.8_o 1_o cor._n 12.28_o aretius_n on_o act._n 14.23_o zepper_n de_fw-fr polit._n eccles._n l._n 3._o c._n 1._o &_o 12._o bullinger_n on_o 1_o tim._n 5.17_o arculâ—rius_n on_o act._n 14.23_o catal_a test_n verit_fw-la col_fw-fr 103._o osâ—and_n cent_n 1_o l._n 4._o c._n 11._o chemnâ—t_fw-la exam_fw-la part_n 2._o pâ—g_v 2â—8_n gerard._n loâ—_n theol._n tom_n 6_o pâ—g_n 363_o â—64_n muscul._n loc_n come_v de_fw-fr eccles._n c._n 5_o bucan_n loc_n come_v â—oc_fw-la 42._o suetanus_fw-la de_fw-la discipl_n eccles._n part_n 4_o c._n 3._o polanus_fw-la synt._n l._n 7._o c_o 11._o zanchius_n in_o 4_o praecep_v col_fw-fr 727._o junius_n animad_fw-la in_o bellâ—r_n cont_n 5._o l_o 1._o c_o 2_o danaeus_n de_fw-fr polit._n christ._n l._n 6_o p_o 452._o alsted_n theol._n case_z pag._n 518.520_o sopingâ—us_fw-la ad_fw-la bonam_fw-la fidem_fw-la sibrandi_fw-la pag._n 253._o etc._n etc._n the_o professor_n of_o leyden_n synt._n pur_fw-mi theol._n disp._n 42._o and_o sundry_a other_o who_o testimony_n i_o omit_v for_o brevity_n cause_n it_o be_v enough_o to_o note_v the_o place_n the_o author_n of_o the_o assertion_n for_o true_a and_o christian_a church_n policy_n pag._n 196.197_o cit_v for_o rule_v elder_n the_o testimony_n the_o commissioner_n of_o king_n edward_n the_o six_o authorize_v to_o compile_v a_o book_n for_o the_o reformation_n of_o law_n ecclesiastical_a among_o who_o be_v the_o archbishop_n of_o canterbury_n and_o the_o bishop_n of_o ely_n they_o say_v let_v the_o minister_n go_v apart_o with_o some_o of_o the_o elder_n take_v counsel_n etc._n etc._n voetâ—us_o cit_v to_o the_o same_o purpose_n marlorat_n hyperius_fw-la fulke_n whittaker_n fenner_n bunnius_fw-la willet_n sadeel_v lubbertus_n trelcatius_n both_o the_o one_o and_o the_o other_o yea_o socinus_n and_o the_o remonstrant_n beside_o we_o have_v for_o we_o the_o practice_n of_o all_o well_o reform_a church_n and_o the_o confession_n of_o the_o french_a the_o belgic_a and_o the_o helveticke_a church_n to_o be_v see_v in_o the_o harmony_n of_o confession_n but_o what_o will_v you_o say_v if_o the_o adversary_n of_o rule_v elder_n be_v force_v to_o say_v somewhat_o for_o they_o 1._o whitgift_n confess_v not_o only_o that_o our_o division_n of_o elder_n into_o preach_v elder_n and_o roll_a elder_n have_v learned_a patron_n but_o also_o that_o the_o christian_a church_n when_o there_o be_v no_o christian_a magistrate_n have_v govern_v senior_n 114._o and_o elsewhere_o he_o say_v i_o know_v that_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n they_o have_v in_o every_o church_n senior_n to_o who_o the_o government_n of_o the_o congregation_n be_v commit_v saravia_n dare_v they_o his_o word_n likewise_o 104._o quod_fw-la à _fw-la i_o etc._n etc._n which_o be_v not_o dispute_v by_o i_o in_o that_o meaning_n that_o the_o belgic_a church_n or_o any_o other_o which_o do_v with_o edification_n use_v the_o service_n of_o these_o elder_n shall_v rash_o change_v any_o thing_n before_o that_o which_o be_v better_o be_v substitute_n again_o speak_v of_o the_o government_n of_o rule_v elder_n 118._o he_o say_v quod_fw-la ut_fw-la etc._n etc._n which_o as_o i_o judge_v profitable_a and_o good_a to_o be_v constitute_v in_o a_o christian_a church_n and_o commonwealth_n so_o i_o affirm_v no_o church_n no_o commonwealth_n to_o be_v bind_v thereto_o by_o divine_a law_n except_o perhaps_o necessity_n compel_v or_o great_a utility_n allure_v and_o the_o edification_n of_o the_o church_n require_v it_o loe_o here_o the_o force_n of_o truth_n struggle_v with_o one_o contrary_a mind_v he_o judge_v the_o office_n of_o rule_v elder_n profitable_a and_o good_a yet_o not_o of_o divine_a right_n yet_o hâ—e_v â—cknowledgeth_v that_o necessity_n utility_n and_o the_o edification_n of_o the_o church_n make_v we_o tie_v to_o it_o even_o by_o divine_a right_n but_o if_o it_o be_v profitable_a and_o good_a why_o do_v he_o call_v in_o question_n the_o necessity_n at_o least_o the_o utility_n and_o the_o edification_n of_o it_o can_v one_o call_v in_o question_n the_o utility_n of_o that_o which_o be_v profitable_a he_o will_v have_v say_v the_o truth_n but_o it_o stick_v in_o his_o tooth_n and_o can_v not_o come_v forth_o saelâ—vius_n de_fw-fr council_n lib._n ay_o cap._n 8._o say_v that_o among_o the_o jew_n seniores_fw-la tribuum_fw-la the_o elder_n of_o the_o tribe_n do_v sit_v with_o the_o priest_n in_o judge_a controversy_n of_o the_o law_n of_o god_n hence_o he_o argue_v against_o bellarmine_n that_o so_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v in_o the_o christian_a church_n also_o because_o the_o privilege_n of_o christian_n be_v no_o lessâ—_n thâ—n_v the_o privilege_n of_o the_o jew_n câ—mero_n tell_v we_o 118._o that_o when_o the_o apostle_n 1_o coâ—_n 6._o reprove_v the_o corinthian_n for_o that_o when_o one_o of_o 〈◊〉_d have_v â—_o matter_n against_o another_o they_o 〈…〉_z the_o saint_n to_o be_v â—udges_n 〈…〉_z noâ—_n by_o the_o 〈◊〉_d the_o 〈…〉_z multitude_n sedeos_fw-la qui_fw-la in_o ecclesia_fw-la constituti_fw-la craft_n 68_o ut_fw-la vacarent_fw-la gubernationi_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la that_o be_v â—hose_v who_o be_v ordain_v in_o the_o church_n to_o give_v themselves_o to_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n my_o lord_n craigtanne_v find_v the_o strength_n of_o that_o argument_n that_o if_o beside_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o word_n other_o grave_n and_o wise_a christian_n may_v be_v present_a in_o the_o great_a assembly_n and_o counsel_n of_o the_o church_n why_o not_o in_o presbytery_n also_o answer_v that_o indeed_o it_o be_v not_o amiss_o that_o the_o wise_a sorâ—_n among_o the_o people_n be_v join_v as_o helper_n and_o assistant_n to_o the_o pastor_n provide_v that_o this_o their_o auxiliary_a function_n be_v not_o obtrude_v as_o necessary_a this_o be_v somewhat_o for_o we_o but_o we_o say_v further_o if_o it_o be_v necessary_a in_o oecumenicke_n counsel_n for_o no_o less_o do_v the_o argument_n of_o our_o divine_n in_o that_o question_n with_o the_o papist_n conclude_v then_o be_v it_o necessary_a in_o presbytery_n also_o chap._n xi_o doctor_n field_n five_o argument_n against_o roll_a 〈…〉_z his_o fiâ—st_a reason_n that_o show_v 〈◊〉_d to_o think_v there_o be_v 〈◊〉_d any_o 〈…〉_z church_n be_v because_o bishop_n presbyter_n that_o preach_v and_o minister_v the_o sacrament_n and_o deacon_n howsoever_o they_o much_o degenerate_v in_o late_a time_n yet_o all_o still_o remain_v in_o all_o christian_a church_n throughout_o the_o world_n both_o greek_a and_o latin_a in_o their_o name_n and_o office_n also_o in_o some_o sort_n but_o of_o these_o roll_a elder_n there_o be_v no_o footstep_n to_o be_v find_v in_o any_o christian_a church_n in_o the_o world_n nor_o be_v not_o for_o many_o hundred_o year_n whereas_o there_o will_v have_v be_v some_o remain_v of_o these_o as_o well_o as_o the_o other_o have_v they_o ever_o have_v any_o institution_n from_o christ_n or_o his_o apostle_n as_o the_o other_o have_v to_o this_o we_o answer_v 1._o if_o the_o christian_a church_n throughout_o the_o world_n have_v want_v rule_v elder_n long_o than_o they_o do_v yet_o prescription_n can_v be_v no_o prejudice_n to_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n 2._o after_o that_o the_o golden_a age_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v spend_v and_o go_v exact_a diligence_n be_v not_o take_v to_o have_v the_o church_n provide_v with_o well_o qualify_a minister_n but_o many_o unfit_a man_n yea_o sundry_a heretic_n enter_v into_o that_o sacred_a vocation_n whereby_o it_o come_v to_o pass_v that_o corruption_n and_o error_n overflow_v the_o church_n 103._o as_o both_o eusebius_n prove_v from_o aegesippus_n and_o catalogus_fw-la testium_fw-la veritatis_fw-la from_o irenaus_n may_v not_o this_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o change_v the_o office-bearer_n and_o government_n of_o the_o church_n 3._o in_o the_o roman_a yea_o in_o prelatical_a church_n there_o be_v scarce_o any_o footstep_n at_o all_o of_o the_o office_n of_o preach_v presbyter_n and_o deacon_n as_o they_o be_v institute_v by_o the_o apostle_n the_o apostle_n ordain_v presbyter_n to_o preach_v the_o word_n to_o minister_v the_o sacrament_n to_o govern_v the_o church_n and_o to_o make_v use_n of_o the_o key_n but_o the_o popish_a and_o prelatical_a presbyter_n have_v not_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n nor_o the_o power_n of_o church_n government_n for_o it_o be_v proper_a to_o their_o prelate_n as_o for_o the_o other_o two_o they_o be_v common_a to_o their_o deacon_n for_o they_o also_o do_v preach_v and_o baptise_v the_o office_n of_o the_o popish_a priest_n stand_v in_o two_o thing_n to_o consecrate_v and_o offer_v up_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o absolve_v
word_n only_o other_o he_o permit_v only_o to_o consent_v unto_o that_o which_o be_v do_v by_o they_o saravia_n allow_v grave_a and_o learned_a man_n to_o sit_v with_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o word_n 11._o yet_o not_o as_o judge_n but_o as_o counsellor_n and_o assessor_n only_o tilen_v will_v not_o say_v that_o the_o bishop_n and_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n ought_v to_o call_v any_o into_o their_o council_n but_o that_o they_o may_v do_v it_o when_o there_o be_v need_n against_o who_o and_o all_o who_o be_v of_o their_o mind_n we_o object_n 1._o the_o example_n of_o apostolic_a synod_n mathias_n the_o apostle_n after_o god_n own_o designation_n of_o he_o by_o the_o lot_n which_o fall_v upon_o he_o be_v choose_v by_o the_o voice_n not_o only_o of_o the_o apostle_n but_o the_o other_o disciple_n who_o be_v meet_v with_o they_o act_n 1.26_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d i._o e._n simul_fw-la suffragiis_fw-la electus_fw-la est_fw-la as_o arias_n montanus_n turn_v it_o 1.26_o for_o the_o proper_a and_o native_a signification_n of_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d as_o lorinus_n show_v out_o of_o gagveius_fw-la be_v to_o choose_v by_o voice_n the_o professor_n of_o leyden_n have_v note_v this_o consensus_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la per_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o the_o election_n of_o mathias_n cens._n in_o confess_v cap._n 21._o in_o the_o council_n of_o jerusalem_n act._n 15._o we_o find_v that_o beside_o the_o apostle_n the_o elder_n be_v present_a and_o voice_v definitive_o for_o they_o by_o who_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o synod_n be_v give_v forth_o and_o who_o send_v choose_v man_n to_o antioch_n be_v the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n gerard_n loc._n theol._n come_v 6._o n._n 28._o and_o thâ—_n profess_v of_o leyden_n cens_fw-la in_o conf_n c._n 21._o understand_v that_o the_o elder_n speak_v of_o v_o 5._o &_o 6._o be_v the_o roll_a elder_n of_o the_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n join_v with_o the_o apostle_n who_o labour_v in_o the_o word_n other_o protestant_a writer_n understand_v by_o the_o name_n of_o elder_n there_o both_o preach_v and_o rule_v elder_n the_o brethrent_a hat_n be_v the_o whole_a church_n hear_v the_o dispute_n and_o consent_v to_o the_o decree_n v_o 21_o 22_o 23_o rule_v elder_n behove_v to_o do_v more_o than_o the_o whole_a church_n that_o be_v voice_n definitive_o lorinus_n the_o jesuit_n say_v that_o by_o the_o name_n of_o elder_n there_o we_o may_v understand_v not_o only_a priest_n but_o other_o beside_o they_o viz._n antiquiores_fw-la &_o anctoritate_fw-la praecellentes_fw-la discipulos_fw-la disciple_n of_o great_a age_n and_o note_n and_o this_o he_o say_v be_v the_o reason_n why_o the_o vulgar_a latin_a have_v not_o retain_v in_o that_o place_n the_o greek_a word_n presbyteri_fw-la but_o read_v seniores_fw-la 2._o we_o have_v for_o we_o the_o example_n of_o ecclesiastical_a court_n among_o the_o jew_n wherein_o the_o jewish_a elder_n have_v equal_a power_n of_o voice_n with_o the_o priest_n and_o for_o this_o we_o have_v hear_v before_o saravia_n plain_a confession_n 3._o the_o example_n of_o ancient_a council_n in_o the_o christian_a church_n constantine_n in_o his_o epistle_n which_o he_o write_v to_o the_o church_n concern_v the_o nicene_n council_n say_v i_o myself_o as_o one_o of_o your_o number_n be_v present_a with_o they_o the_o bishop_n which_o import_v that_o other_o of_o the_o laity_n voice_v there_o with_o the_o bishop_n as_o well_o as_o he_o and_o he_o as_o a_o chief_a one_o of_o their_o number_n euagrius_n lib._n 2._o cap._n 4._o say_v that_o the_o chief_a senator_n sit_v with_o the_o bishop_n in_o the_o council_n of_o chalcedon_n and_o after_o he_o say_v the_o senator_n decree_v as_o follow_v the_o four_o council_n of_o carthagâ—_n c._n 27._o speak_v of_o the_o transportation_n of_o a_o bishop_n or_o of_o any_o other_o clergy_n man_n 357._o sai_z sane_fw-la si_fw-la id_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la utilitas_fw-la fiendum_fw-la poposecrit_fw-fr decrete_a pro_fw-la eo_fw-la clericorum_fw-la &_o laicorum_fw-la episcopis_fw-la porrecto_fw-la in_fw-la praesentia_fw-la synodi_fw-la transferatur_fw-la the_o decree_n of_o the_o synod_n of_o france_n hold_v by_o charlemainâ—_n about_o the_o year_n 743._o be_v say_v to_o have_v be_v make_v by_o the_o king_n the_o bishop_n the_o presbyter_n and_o noble_n many_o such_o example_n may_v we_o show_v but_o the_o matter_n be_v so_o clear_a that_o it_o need_v not_o 8._o 4._o the_o revieu_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n write_v by_o a_o papist_n among_o other_o cause_n of_o the_o nobility_n of_o that_o council_n make_v this_o one_o that_o layman_n be_v not_o call_v nor_o admit_v into_o it_o as_o be_v the_o form_n of_o both_o the_o apostolic_a and_o other_o ancient_a council_n show_v also_o from_o sundry_a history_n and_o example_n that_o both_o in_o france_n spain_n and_o england_n layman_n use_v to_o voice_n and_o to_o judge_v of_o all_o matter_n that_o be_v handle_v in_o council_n allege_v further_o the_o example_n of_o pope_n themselves_o that_o adrian_n do_v summon_v many_o layman_n to_o the_o lateran_n council_n as_o member_n thereof_o that_o in_o imitation_n of_o he_o pope_n leo_n do_v the_o like_a in_o another_o council_n at_o the_o lateran_n under_o otho_n the_o first_o and_o that_o pope_n nicholas_n in_o epist._n ad_fw-la michael_n imperat._n acknowledge_v the_o right_a of_o layman_n to_o voice_n in_o council_n wherein_o matter_n of_o faith_n be_v treat_v of_o because_o faith_n be_v common_a to_o all_o abide_v the_o same_o writer_n show_v also_o from_o the_o history_n that_o in_o the_o council_n of_o constance_n be_v 24._o duke_n 140_o earl_n divers_a delegate_n from_o city_n and_o corporation_n divers_a learned_a lawyer_n and_o burgess_n of_o university_n 5._o the_o protestant_n of_o germany_n do_v ever_o refuse_v to_o acknowledge_v any_o such_o council_n wherein_o none_o but_o bishop_n and_o minister_n of_o the_o word_n do_v judge_v expetendarum_fw-la when_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n be_v first_o speak_v of_o in_o the_o diet_n at_o norimberg_n anno_fw-la 1522._o all_o the_o estate_n of_o germany_n desire_v of_o pope_n adrian_n the_o 6._o that_o admittance_n may_v be_v grant_v as_o well_o to_o layman_n as_o to_o clergyman_n and_o that_o not_o only_o as_o witness_n and_o spectator_n but_o to_o be_v judge_n there_o this_o they_o can_v not_o obtain_v therefore_o they_o will_v not_o come_v to_o the_o council_n and_o publish_v a_o book_n which_o they_o entitle_v causa_fw-la cur_n electores_fw-la &_o caeteri_fw-la confessioni_fw-la augustanae_n addicti_fw-la ad_fw-la concilium_fw-la tridentinum_n non_fw-la accedant_fw-la where_o they_o allege_v this_o for_o one_o cause_n of_o their_o not_o come_v to_o trent_n because_o none_o have_v voice_n there_o but_o cardinal_n bishop_n abbot_n general_n or_o superior_n of_o order_n whereas_o laicke_v also_o aught_o to_o have_v a_o decisive_a voice_n in_o council_n 6._o if_o none_o but_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o word_n shall_v sit_v and_o voice_n in_o a_o synod_n than_o it_o can_v not_o be_v a_o church_n representative_a because_o the_o most_o part_n of_o the_o church_n who_o be_v the_o hearer_n and_o not_o the_o teacher_n of_o the_o word_n be_v not_o represent_v in_o it_o 7._o a_o common_a cause_n ought_v to_o be_v conclude_v by_o common_a voice_n but_o that_o which_o be_v treat_v of_o in_o council_n be_v a_o common_a cause_n pertain_v to_o many_o particular_a church_n our_o divine_n when_o they_o prove_v against_o papist_n that_o the_o election_n of_o minister_n and_o the_o excommunication_n of_o obstinate_a sinner_n ought_v to_o be_v do_v by_o the_o suffrage_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n they_o make_v use_v of_o this_o same_o argument_n that_o which_o concern_v all_o aught_o to_o be_v treat_v of_o and_o judge_v by_o all_o 8._o some_o of_o all_o estate_n in_o the_o commonwealth_n voice_n in_o parliament_n therefore_o some_o of_o all_o sort_n in_o the_o church_n ought_v to_o voice_n in_o council_n and_o synod_n for_o de_fw-la paribus_fw-la idem_fw-la judicium_fw-la a_o national_n synod_n be_v that_o same_o to_o the_o church_n which_o a_o parliament_n be_v to_o the_o commonwealth_n 9_o those_o elder_n who_o right_o we_o plead_v be_v call_v by_o the_o apostle_n ruler_n rom._n 12.8_o 1_o tim._n 5.17_o and_o governor_n 1_o cor._n 12.28_o therefore_o needs_o must_v they_o voice_n and_o judge_v in_o those_o assembly_n without_o which_o the_o church_n can_v be_v rule_v nor_o govern_v if_o this_o be_v deny_v they_o they_o have_v no_o other_o function_n behind_o to_o make_v they_o ruler_n or_o governor_n of_o the_o church_n rome_n be_v rule_v by_o the_o senate_n not_o by_o the_o censor_n and_o athens_n be_v govern_v by_o the_o arâ—opagus_n not_o by_o the_o inferior_a office-bearer_n who_o do_v only_o take_v heed_n how_o the_o law_n be_v observe_v but_o let_v we_o now_o see_v what_o be_v object_v against_o this_o power_n of_o rule_v elder_n to_o voice_n
and_o infirm_a bishop_n who_o can_v labour_v in_o the_o word_n and_o doctrine_n answ._n 1._o the_o apostle_n speak_v of_o presbyter_n not_o of_o prelate_n 2._o to_o rule_v well_o import_v as_o great_a labour_n as_o preach_v and_o somewhat_o more_o as_o i_o show_v before_o so_o that_o they_o who_o can_v labour_v in_o preach_v can_v labour_v in_o rule_v neither_o 3._o they_o who_o have_v eviscerate_v and_o spend_v themselves_o in_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n who_o have_v be_v as_o long_o as_o they_o can_v stand_v upon_o their_o foot_n valiant_a champion_n for_o the_o truth_n against_o the_o enemy_n thereof_o who_o have_v serve_v their_o time_n according_a to_o the_o will_n of_o god_n without_o the_o stain_n of_o heresy_n schism_n apostasy_n or_o unfaithfulnesse_n when_o they_o become_v old_a and_o infirm_a they_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v the_o less_o honour_v as_o the_o impious_a verdict_n of_o this_o prelate_n will_v have_v it_o but_o so_o much_o the_o more_o honour_n ought_v to_o be_v give_v to_o their_o hoar_a head_n find_v in_o the_o way_n of_o righteousness_n another_o gloss_n be_v give_v by_o the_o same_o king_n namely_o that_o the_o apostle_n will_v have_v minister_n not_o only_o to_o live_v well_o but_o to_o feed_v also_o by_o the_o word_n and_o doctrine_n answ._n 1._o the_o rise_n of_o the_o apostle_n word_n do_v not_o concern_v duty_n but_o person_n as_o we_o have_v say_v before_o 2._o to_o live_v well_o be_v not_o to_o rule_v well_o unless_o we_o will_v make_v all_o who_o live_v godly_a to_o rule_v well_o 3._o three_o this_o gloss_n do_v still_o leave_v a_o double_a honour_n to_o minister_n that_o live_v well_o though_o they_o do_v not_o preach_v we_o see_v now_o our_o opposite_n have_v be_v try_v all_o wind_n to_o fetch_v upon_o we_o but_o here_o we_o leave_v they_o betwixt_o wind_n and_o wave_n â—or_a this_o our_o last_o argument_n carry_v we_o away_o with_o full_a sail_n chap._n viii_o the_o testimony_n of_o ambrose_n for_o rule_v elder_n vindicate_v if_o we_o look_v back_o beyond_o the_o time_n of_o decline_v unto_o the_o first_o and_o pure_a time_n of_o the_o church_n we_o shall_v find_v roll_a elder_n to_o be_v no_o new_a fangle_a device_n at_o geneva_n but_o that_o the_o primitive_a government_n and_o policy_n of_o the_o church_n have_v be_v in_o they_o restore_v there_o be_v one_o place_n of_o ambrose_n which_o clear_v it_o sufficient_o he_o write_v on_o 1_o tim._n 5.1_o rebuke_v not_o a_o elder_a say_v vnde_fw-la &_o synagoga_fw-la etc._n etc._n wherefore_o both_o the_o jewish_a synagogue_n and_o after_o the_o church_n have_v senior_n or_o elder_n without_o who_o counsel_n nothing_o be_v do_v in_o the_o church_n which_o by_o what_o negligence_n it_o grow_v out_o of_o use_n i_o know_v not_o except_o perhaps_o by_o the_o sloth_n or_o rather_o by_o the_o pride_n of_o the_o teacher_n whiâ—es_v they_o alone_o will_v seem_v to_o be_v something_o this_o sentence_n be_v also_o cite_v in_o glossa_fw-la ordinar_n and_o it_o show_v plain_o that_o as_o the_o jewish_a so_o the_o christian_a church_n have_v some_o elder_n who_o though_o they_o be_v not_o teacher_n of_o the_o word_n yet_o have_v a_o part_n of_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n upon_o their_o shoulder_n but_o that_o this_o come_v into_o desuetude_n partly_o through_o the_o sloth_n of_o the_o teacher_n and_o minister_n of_o the_o word_n while_o they_o be_v not_o careful_a to_o preserve_v the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n and_o the_o right_a way_n of_o govern_v the_o church_n and_o partly_o through_o their_o pride_n whilst_o they_o will_v do_v all_o by_o themselves_o and_o have_v no_o consort_n utinam_fw-la modo_fw-la nostra_fw-la redirent_fw-la in_o mores_fw-la tempora_fw-la priscos_fw-la but_o let_v we_o hear_v a_o triple_a divination_n which_o the_o non-friend_n of_o rule_v elder_n give_v forth_o upon_o this_o testimony_n 226._o first_o bishop_n hall_n tell_v we_o that_o it_o be_v not_o ambrose_n but_o a_o counterfeit_n who_o write_v that_o commentary_n upon_o the_o epistle_n and_o for_o this_o he_o allege_v our_o own_o parker_n against_o we_o the_o truth_n be_v bellaâ—mine_n and_o scultingius_n teach_v he_o this_o answer_n the_o place_n of_o parker_n he_o cit_v noâ—_n in_o the_o margin_n but_o i_o believe_v the_o place_n he_o mean_v of_o be_v de_fw-fr polit_fw-la eccles._n lib._n 2._o cap._n 13._o where_o he_o hold_v indeed_o that_o the_o author_n of_o these_o commentary_n be_v not_o ambrose_n bishop_n of_o milan_n but_o show_v withal_o that_o he_o nothing_o doubt_v of_o the_o catholic_a authority_n of_o the_o commentary_n themselves_o hoc_fw-la vero_fw-la etc._n etc._n this_o say_v he_o may_v befall_v the_o best_a author_n whosoever_o he_o be_v that_o some_o may_v ascribe_v his_o work_n to_o another_o but_o that_o he_o live_v before_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a this_o add_v weight_n to_o his_o testimony_n of_o the_o senior_n these_o commentary_n be_v common_o cite_v by_o our_o divine_n as_o ambrose_n i_o find_v they_o in_o erasmus_n his_o edition_n both_o at_o collen_n 1532._o and_o at_o paris_n 1551._o acknowledge_v to_o be_v the_o genuine_a work_n of_o ambrose_n only_o the_o preface_n before_o the_o epistle_n be_v call_v in_o question_n they_o be_v also_o acknowledge_v in_o the_o edition_n of_o costerius_fw-la at_o basile_n 1555._o sixtuâ—_n senensis_n ascribe_v they_o to_o ambrose_n in_o like_a manner_n the_o edition_n of_o collen_n 1616._o have_v a_o observation_n prefix_v which_o repudiate_v many_o of_o his_o work_n and_o these_o commentary_n among_o the_o rest_n yet_o the_o last_o edition_n at_o paris_n 1632._o have_v expunge_v that_o observation_n which_o they_o have_v not_o do_v if_o they_o have_v approve_v the_o same_o howsoever_o that_o same_o observation_n make_v those_o commentary_n to_o be_v as_o old_a as_o 372._o or_o 373._o perkins_n in_o his_o preparative_n before_o his_o demonstration_n of_o the_o problem_n call_v in_o question_n the_o commentary_n upon_o the_o hebrew_n 18._o but_o no_o more_o rivet_n show_v that_o these_o who_o reject_v they_o do_v neither_o give_v good_a reason_n for_o their_o opinion_n neither_o yet_o do_v agree_v among_o themselves_o bellarmine_n ascribe_v they_o to_o hilarius_n diaconus_fw-la maldonat_fw-la to_o remigius_n lugdunensis_n the_o censor_n of_o louvain_n to_o the_o author_n of_o the_o question_n of_o the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n i_o believe_v that_o cook_n in_o his_o censura_fw-la scriptorum_fw-la veterum_fw-la 134._o have_v touch_v the_o true_a cause_n why_o these_o commentary_n be_v so_o much_o call_v in_o question_n which_o be_v the_o perfidiousness_n of_o papist_n who_o when_o they_o find_v any_o thing_n therein_o which_o they_o imagine_v to_o be_v for_o their_o advantage_n than_o they_o cry_v saint_n ambrose_n say_v thus_o but_o when_o they_o find_v any_o thing_n therein_o which_o make_v against_o they_o than_o they_o say_v as_o hall_n do_v it_o be_v not_o ambrose_n but_o a_o counterseit_n i_o must_v confess_v that_o hall_n be_v wise_a in_o disclaim_v the_o same_o than_o his_o fellow_n in_o acknowledge_v they_o yet_o because_o he_o find_v that_o the_o testimony_n may_v be_v of_o force_n though_o not_o ambrose_n and_o beside_o have_v no_o proof_n for_o this_o alledgeance_n he_o dare_v not_o trust_v to_o it_o but_o think_v upon_o another_o answer_n 26._o to_o proceed_v then_o to_o their_o next_o conjecture_n bilson_n sutcliffe_n and_o doctor_n field_n tell_v we_o that_o ambrose_n mean_v of_o bishop_n who_o exclude_v other_o clergy_n man_n from_o their_o consultation_n and_o that_o by_o the_o name_n of_o teacher_n he_o may_v fit_o understand_v the_o bishop_n see_v none_o but_o they_o have_v power_n to_o preach_v in_o their_o own_o right_n &_o other_o but_o only_a by_o permission_n from_o they_o this_o be_v a_o most_o desperate_a shift_n for_o a_o bad_a cause_n for_o first_o there_o be_v no_o warrant_n neither_o from_o scripture_n nor_o antiquity_n to_o distinguish_v bishop_n from_o other_o minister_n of_o the_o word_n by_o the_o name_n of_o teacher_n second_o as_o for_o that_o reason_n allege_v that_o none_o but_o bishop_n have_v power_n to_o preach_v in_o their_o own_o right_n it_o be_v contrary_a to_o that_o which_o field_n himself_o say_v in_o the_o very_a next_o chapter_n where_o he_o hold_v that_o presbyter_n be_v equal_a with_o bishop_n in_o the_o power_n of_o order_n and_o that_o they_o may_v preach_v and_o minister_v the_o sacrament_n by_o virtue_n of_o their_o order_n as_o well_o as_o bishop_n three_o neither_o do_v the_o advise_v of_o bishop_n with_o presbyter_n cease_v in_o ambrose_n his_o time_n 27._o for_o as_o field_n himself_o note_v out_o of_o the_o four_o council_n of_o carthage_n which_o be_v hold_v short_o after_o ambrose_n his_o writing_n hereof_o all_o sentence_n of_o bishop_n be_v declare_v to_o be_v void_a which_o be_v not_o confirm_v by_o the_o presence_n of_o their_o clergy_n let_v we_o also_o
senatum_fw-la nostrum_fw-la coetum_fw-la presbyterorum_fw-la cum_fw-la ergo_fw-la inter_fw-la cetera_fw-la etiam_fw-la senes_fw-la â—udea_n perdiderit_fw-la quomodo_fw-la poterit_fw-la habere_fw-la concilium_fw-la quod_fw-la proprie_fw-la seniorum_fw-la est_fw-la and_o what_o sense_n shall_v we_o give_v to_o these_o word_n unless_o we_o say_v it_o be_v import_v that_o both_o the_o jewish_a and_o the_o christian_a church_n have_v such_o a_o eldership_n as_o we_o plead_v for_o else_o why_o do_v both_o he_o and_o basil_n make_v such_o a_o parallel_n betwixt_o the_o jewish_a and_o the_o christian_a church_n in_o the_o point_n of_o elder_n sure_o if_o we_o understand_v by_o the_o elder_n of_o the_o christian_a church_n whereof_o they_o speak_v the_o minister_n of_o the_o word_n alone_o we_o must_v also_o understand_v by_o the_o elder_n of_o the_o jewish_a church_n whereof_o they_o speak_v the_o priest_n which_o no_o man_n will_v imagine_v 23._o eusebius_n in_o his_o history_n cit_v dionysiuâ—_n alexandrinus_n relate_v his_o dispute_n with_o the_o chiliast_n after_o this_o manner_n when_o i_o be_v at_o arsenoiâ—a_n where_o thou_o know_v this_o doctrine_n first_o spring_v etc._n etc._n i_o call_v together_o the_o elder_n and_o teacher_n inhabit_v those_o village_n there_o be_v present_a also_o as_o many_o of_o the_o brethren_n as_o be_v willing_a to_o come_v and_o i_o exâ—orted_v they_o public_o to_o the_o search_n of_o this_o doctrine_n etc._n etc._n by_o the_o teacher_n here_o be_v mean_v the_o pastor_n or_o minister_n of_o the_o word_n who_o be_v most_o frequent_o call_v by_o the_o father_n teacher_n or_o doctor_n neither_o can_v it_o be_v suppose_v that_o there_o be_v any_o teacher_n beside_o the_o pastor_n in_o these_o rural_a village_n which_o notwithstanding_o we_o see_v have_v beside_o their_o pastor_n or_o teacher_n elder_n also_o augustine_n write_v his_o 137._o epistle_n to_o those_o of_o his_o own_o church_n at_o hippon_n who_o he_o design_v thus_o dilectissimis_fw-la â—ratribus_fw-la clero_fw-la senioribus_fw-la &_o universae_fw-la plebi_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la hipponenâ—is_fw-la cui_fw-la seruio_fw-la in_o dilectione_n christ_n to_o my_o well-beloved_a brethren_n the_o clergy_n the_o elder_n and_o the_o whole_a people_n of_o the_o church_n at_o hippon_n who_o i_o serve_v in_o the_o love_n of_o christ._n he_o put_v elder_n or_o senior_n in_o the_o middle_n betwixt_o the_o clergy_n and_o the_o people_n as_o distinct_a from_o both_o and_o yet_o somewhat_o participant_a of_o both_o isidorus_n hispalensis_n speak_v of_o the_o prudence_n and_o discretion_n 43._o which_o pastor_n shall_v observe_v in_o teach_v of_o the_o word_n give_v they_o this_o advise_v among_o other_o prius_fw-la docâ—ndi_fw-la sunt_fw-la seniores_fw-la plebis_fw-la ut_fw-la per_fw-la â—os_v infra_fw-la posâ—tifacilius_fw-la doceantur_fw-la the_o elder_n of_o the_o people_n be_v to_o be_v first_o teach_v that_o by_o they_o such_o as_o be_v place_v under_o they_o may_v be_v teach_v the_o more_o easy_o origen_n speak_v of_o the_o trial_n of_o such_o as_o be_v to_o be_v admit_v member_n of_o the_o church_n 3._o say_v nonnulli_fw-la praepositi_fw-la sunt_fw-la etc._n etc._n there_o be_v some_o ruler_n appoint_v who_o may_v inquire_v concern_v the_o conversation_n and_o manner_n of_o these_o thâ—t_n be_v admit_v that_o they_o may_v debar_v from_o the_o congregation_n such_o as_o commit_v filthiness_n in_o the_o act_n of_o the_o 5._o council_n of_o toledo_n according_a to_o the_o late_a edition_n 1._o we_o read_v that_o cinthila_n who_o other_o call_v chintillanus_fw-la come_v into_o that_o council_n cum_fw-la optimatibus_fw-la &_o senioribus_fw-la palatii_fw-la svi_fw-la but_o lorinus_n have_v find_v in_o some_o ancient_a copy_n 4.5_o cum_fw-la optimatibus_fw-la &_o senioribus_fw-la populi_fw-la svi_fw-la with_o the_o noble_n and_o the_o elder_n of_o his_o people_n i_o will_v know_v who_o be_v these_o elder_n of_o the_o people_n distinguish_v from_o the_o noble_n accepisse_fw-la these_o thing_n may_v suffice_v from_o antiquity_n to_o give_v some_o evidence_n that_o the_o office_n of_o rule_v elder_n be_v not_o calvin_n new_a fangle_a devise_n at_o geneva_n as_o our_o adversary_n be_v please_v to_o call_v it_o but_o for_o further_a confirmation_n of_o this_o point_n voetius_fw-la disp_n 2._o de_fw-la senio_fw-la and_o before_o he_o justellus_n in_o annot_n &_o notis_fw-la in_o cod_n can._n eccles._n afric_n can._n 100_o have_v observe_v sundry_a other_o pregnant_a testimony_n from_o antiquity_n for_o rule_v elder_n especial_o out_o of_o these_o notable_a record_n gesta_fw-la puâ—gationis_fw-la caeciliani_n &_o faelicis_fw-la to_o be_v see_v in_o the_o anna_n of_o baronius_n an._n 103._o and_o in_o albaspinaeus_n his_o edition_n of_o optatus_n these_o testimony_n i_o have_v here_o set_v down_o in_o the_o margin_n from_o which_o passage_n it_o be_v apparent_a that_o in_o the_o day_n of_o ambrose_n these_o senior_n be_v neither_o in_o all_o place_n nor_o altogether_o grow_v out_o of_o use_n but_o that_o both_o in_o the_o eastern_a and_o western_a church_n manifest_a footstep_n of_o the_o same_o remain_v neither_o be_v his_o testimony_n before_o allege_v repugnant_a hereunto_o for_o we_o may_v understand_v his_o meaning_n to_o be_v either_o that_o in_o some_o place_n or_o that_o in_o some_o sort_n they_o be_v grow_v out_o of_o use_n because_o peradventure_o the_o teacher_n begin_v to_o do_v something_n without_o their_o counsel_n and_o advice_n which_o in_o former_a time_n be_v not_o so_o 215._o bilson_n answer_v two_o way_n to_o the_o testimony_n from_o the_o 137._o epist._n of_o august_n and_o belike_o he_o will_v have_v answer_v in_o the_o same_o manner_n to_o these_o other_o testimony_n he_o say_v we_o may_v understand_v by_o these_o senior_n either_o the_o better_a part_n of_o the_o clergy_n or_o the_o senator_n &_o ruler_n of_o the_o city_n that_o they_o be_v neither_o bishop_n nor_o preach_v presbyter_n nor_o deacon_n it_o be_v manifest_a for_o they_o be_v distinguish_v from_o all_o these_o in_o act_n purgat_fw-la cacil_a &_o fal._n and_o they_o be_v call_v by_o isiâ—ore_n and_o pâ—rpurius_n seniores_fw-la plebis_fw-la beside_o it_o be_v strange_a if_o august_n bishop_n of_o hippo_n write_v to_o his_o clergy_n shall_v distinguish_v either_o the_o deacon_n from_o the_o presbyter_n by_o the_o name_n of_o the_o clergy_n which_o be_v common_a to_o both_o or_o some_o preach_a presbyter_n from_o other_o preach_a presbyter_n by_o the_o name_n of_o senior_n on_o the_o other_o part_n that_o they_o be_v not_o magistrate_n of_o city_n it_o be_v no_o less_o plain_a for_o they_o be_v call_v seniores_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la and_o ecclesiastici_fw-la viri_fw-la they_o instruct_v the_o people_n and_o have_v place_n in_o judge_v of_o cause_n ecclesiastical_a 253._o but_o elsewhere_o bilson_n take_v upon_o he_o to_o prove_v that_o those_o of_o the_o clergy_n who_o be_v by_o their_o proper_a name_n call_v presbyter_n be_v also_o call_v seniores_fw-la as_o those_o who_o come_v near_a to_o the_o bishop_n in_o degree_n wisdom_n and_o age_n and_o this_o he_o prove_v by_o a_o testimony_n of_o ambrose_n 20._o viduarum_fw-la ac_fw-la virginum_fw-la domos_fw-la nisi_fw-la â—isitandi_fw-la gratia_fw-la juniores_fw-la ad_fw-la re_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la opus_fw-la &_o hoc_fw-la cum_fw-la senioribus_fw-la hoc_fw-la est_fw-la cum_fw-la episcopo_fw-la vel_fw-la sigravior_fw-la est_fw-la causa_fw-la cum_fw-la presbyteris_fw-la answ._n 1._o here_o the_o senior_n be_v the_o bishop_n which_o be_v neither_o good_a sense_n nor_o any_o thing_n to_o his_o purpose_n 2._o he_o have_v leave_v out_o a_o word_n without_o which_o the_o sentence_n can_v be_v understand_v and_o that_o be_v well_fw-mi ambrose_n say_v hoc_fw-la est_fw-la vel_fw-la â—um_fw-la episcopo_fw-la etc._n etc._n and_o so_o the_o word_n may_v suffer_v a_o threefold_a sense_n for_o either_o seniores_fw-la be_v here_o a_o name_n of_o age_n or_o of_o office_n if_o it_o be_v a_o name_n of_o age_n as_o may_v be_v presume_v by_o the_o opposition_n thereof_o to_o juniores_fw-la than_o the_o meaning_n of_o ambrose_n be_v that_o young_a man_n shall_v not_o go_v into_o the_o house_n of_o virgin_n or_o widow_n except_o it_o be_v with_o some_o man_n of_o age_n and_o these_o to_o be_v the_o bishop_n or_o the_o presbyter_n if_o â—t_a be_v a_o name_n of_o office_n theâ—_n may_v we_o either_o understand_v that_o by_o the_o presbyter_n he_o mean_v rule_v elder_n and_o by_o the_o bishop_n the_o pastor_n of_o any_o particular_a church_n 〈◊〉_d for_o if_o whitaker_n be_v not_o deceive_v pastor_n have_v the_o name_n of_o bishop_n not_o only_o in_o scripture_n but_o in_o the_o ancient_a church_n also_o or_o that_o he_o comprehend_v under_o the_o order_n of_o elder_n not_o only_o the_o preach_a presbyter_n but_o the_o bishop_n also_o who_o be_v chief_a among_o they_o by_o the_o first_o sense_n bilson_n do_v gain_v nothing_o by_o the_o other_o two_o he_o have_v worse_a than_o nothing_o for_o any_o of_o they_o destroy_v his_o chief_a ground_n chap._n x._o the_o consent_n of_o protestant_a writer_n and_o
matter_n the_o matter_n of_o law_n and_o judgement_n which_o be_v call_v the_o lord_n matter_n because_o the_o lord_n be_v the_o author_n of_o their_o civil_a law_n 24._o what_o a_o crazy_a device_n be_v this_o do_v not_o matter_n of_o peace_n and_o war_n come_v under_o the_o civil_a law_n which_o god_n have_v deliver_v to_o the_o jew_n as_o well_o as_o any_o matter_n of_o judgement_n betwixt_o man_n and_o man_n and_o what_o can_v be_v more_o plain_a than_o that_o the_o lord_n matter_n or_o thing_n pertain_v to_o god_n 5.1_o when_o they_o be_v difference_v from_o other_o matter_n be_v ever_o understand_v to_o be_v matter_n spiritual_a and_o ecclesiastical_a 17._o quapropter_fw-la wherefore_o say_v junius_n the_o reader_n be_v to_o be_v warn_v whosoever_o they_o be_v that_o consult_v the_o history_n of_o ancient_a time_n that_o where_o they_o read_v the_o name_n synedâ—tum_n they_o wise_o observe_v whether_o the_o civil_a assembly_n or_o the_o ecclesiastical_a be_v mean_v of_o because_o that_o name_n be_v confuse_v and_o indistinct_a after_o the_o time_n of_o antiochus_n but_o notwithstanding_o that_o in_o these_o latter_a time_n all_o good_a order_n have_v much_o degenerate_a and_o grow_v to_o confusion_n yet_o it_o seem_v to_o i_o that_o even_o in_o the_o day_n of_o our_o saviour_n christ_n the_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a court_n remain_v distinct_a let_v i_o say_v my_o opinion_n with_o all_o man_n leave_n and_o under_o correction_n of_o the_o more_o learned_a that_o night_n that_o our_o lord_n be_v betray_v he_o be_v lead_v to_o the_o hall_n of_o cajaphas_n where_o there_o be_v hold_v a_o ecclesiastical_a sanedrim_n which_o ask_v jesus_n of_o his_o disciple_n and_o of_o his_o doctrine_n receive_v witness_n against_o he_o and_o pronounce_v he_o guilty_a of_o blasphemy_n mat._n 27.57_o mark_v 14.53.55_o joh._n 18.19_o nothing_o i_o find_v in_o this_o council_n why_o we_o shall_v think_v it_o civil_a for_o as_o touch_v the_o smite_v and_o buffet_n of_o christ_n mat._n 26.67_o luk_n 22.63_o some_o think_v it_o be_v by_o the_o servant_n of_o the_o high_a priest_n and_o elder_n after_o that_o they_o themselves_o have_v go_v home_o &_o leave_v the_o council_n howsoever_o it_o be_v do_v tumultuous_o not_o judicial_o and_o tumult_n may_v fall_v forth_o in_o any_o judicatory_a whether_o civil_a or_o ecclesiastical_a as_o for_o the_o sentence_n which_o they_o give_v mat._n 26.66_o he_o be_v guilty_a of_o death_n it_o prove_v not_o that_o this_o be_v a_o civil_a court_n for_o just_a so_o if_o a_o incestuous_a person_n shall_v be_v convict_v before_o a_o assembly_n of_o our_o church_n the_o moderator_n may_v ask_v the_o assembly_n what_o think_v you_o and_o they_o may_v well_o answer_v he_o be_v guilty_a of_o death_n away_o with_o he_o to_o the_o magistrate_n short_o then_o the_o matter_n debate_v in_o this_o nocturnal_a council_n be_v mere_o ecclesiastical_a and_o the_o accusation_n of_o sedition_n and_o make_v himself_o a_o king_n be_v not_o speak_v of_o till_o he_o be_v bring_v before_o pâ—â—at_v but_o there_o be_v another_o sanedrim_n convocat_n in_o the_o morning_n mat_n 27_o 1._o mark_v 15.1_o luk_n 22_o 66._o and_o this_o seem_v to_o have_v be_v not_o ecclesiastical_a but_o civil_a 1._o because_o they_o meddle_v not_o with_o the_o trial_n of_o his_o doctrine_n nor_o any_o examination_n of_o witness_n thereanent_a only_o they_o desire_v to_o hear_v out_o of_o his_o own_o mouth_n that_o which_o he_o have_v confess_v in_o the_o other_o council_n viz._n that_o he_o be_v the_o christ_n the_o son_n of_o god_n whereupon_o they_o take_v counsel_n how_o they_o may_v deliver_v he_o to_o pilate_n which_o be_v the_o end_n of_o their_o meeting_n 2._o mâ—â—k_o say_v they_o bind_v he_o and_o carry_v he_o awâ—y_o to_o pilate_n 3._o the_o ecclesiastical_a council_n have_v already_o do_v that_o which_o they_o think_v pertain_v to_o they_o for_o what_o shall_v they_o have_v convene_v again_o some_o say_v that_o aâ—l_v the_o high_a priest_n scribes_z and_o elder_n be_v not_o present_a at_o that_o nocturnal_a council_n and_o that_o therefore_o they_o convene_v more_o full_o in_o the_o morning_n but_o that_o the_o nocturnal_a council_n be_v full_o convene_v it_o be_v manifest_a from_o mat._n 26.59_o mark_v 14.53.55_o 4._o this_o last_o council_n lead_v jesus_n away_o to_o pilot_n and_o go_v themselves_o with_o he_o to_o accuse_v he_o before_o pilate_n of_o sedition_n and_o of_o make_v himself_o a_o king_n luk._n 23.1.2_o mat._n 27.12_o 5._o they_o complain_v that_o the_o power_n of_o capital_a punishment_n be_v take_v from_o they_o by_o the_o roman_n import_v that_o otherwise_o they_o may_v have_v put_v he_o to_o death_n by_o their_o law_n joh._n 18.31_o now_o d._n fields_n last_o reason_n be_v for_o that_o all_o father_n or_o counsel_n mention_v elder_n place_v they_o betwixt_o bishop_n and_o deacon_n and_o make_v they_o to_o be_v clergy_n man_n and_o that_o in_o the_o act_n where_o the_o apostle_n be_v say_v to_o have_v constitute_v elder_n in_o every_o church_n pastor_n be_v mean_v be_v strong_o confirm_v from_o act._n 20.17.28_o where_o the_o elder_n of_o the_o church_n of_o ephesus_n be_v command_v to_o feed_v the_o flock_n of_o christ_n over_o which_o they_o be_v appoint_v overseer_n whence_o it_o follow_v inevitable_o that_o they_o be_v pastor_n 14_o we_o answer_v 1._o ambrose_n speak_v of_o elder_n which_o be_v not_o pastor_n 2._o beza_n &_o gualther_n expound_v the_o place_n act._n 14.23_o where_o the_o apostle_n be_v say_v to_o have_v ordain_v elder_n through_o every_o church_n of_o rule_v as_o well_o as_o preach_v elder_n 3._o as_o for_o that_o which_o he_o allege_v from_o act._n 20._o beza_n 275._o junius_n and_o the_o professor_n of_o leyden_n hold_v that_o the_o name_n of_o bishop_n and_o pastor_n be_v common_a both_o to_o rule_v and_o preach_v elder_n and_o that_o the_o scripture_n give_v these_o name_n to_o both_o howsoever_o in_o ecclesiastical_a use_n for_o distinction_n cause_n they_o be_v appropriate_v to_o teach_v elder_n sure_o the_o roll_a elder_n both_o oversee_v the_o flock_n and_o feed_v the_o same_o both_o by_o discipline_n and_o by_o private_a admonition_n and_o for_o these_o respect_n may_v be_v true_o call_v both_o bishop_n and_o pastor_n 4._o how_o small_a reason_n he_o have_v to_o boast_v of_o the_o father_n we_o have_v already_o make_v it_o to_o appear_v 5._o it_o be_v a_o beg_n of_o the_o question_n to_o reason_n from_o the_o appropriation_n of_o the_o name_n of_o elder_n to_o the_o pastor_n chap._n xii_o the_o extravagancy_n of_o whitgift_n and_o saravia_n in_o the_o matter_n of_o rule_v elder_n these_o two_o disputer_n do_v not_o as_o d._n field_n altogether_o oppose_v the_o government_n of_o rule_v elder_n but_o with_o certain_a restriction_n about_o which_o notwithstanding_o they_o differ_v betwixt_o themselves_o whitgift_n allow_v of_o rule_v elder_n under_o a_o tyrant_n but_o not_o under_o a_o christian_a magistrate_n but_o â—ayeth_v they_o can_v be_v under_o a_o infidel_n magistrate_n i_o think_v i_o see_v here_o sampsons_n fox_n with_o their_o tail_n knit_v together_o and_o a_o firebrand_n betwixt_o they_o yet_o their_o head_n look_v sundry_a waâ—es_n 114._o to_o begin_v with_o whitgift_n he_o say_v in_o one_o place_n i_o know_v that_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n they_o have_v in_o every_o church_n senior_n to_o who_o the_o government_n of_o the_o congregation_n be_v commit_v but_o that_o be_v before_o there_o be_v any_o christian_a prince_n or_o magistrate_n etc._n etc._n in_o another_o place_n my_o reason_n why_o it_o the_o church_n may_v not_o be_v govern_v under_o a_o christian_a magistrate_n be_v it_o may_v under_o a_o tyrant_n be_v this_o god_n have_v give_v the_o chief_a authority_n in_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n to_o the_o christian_a magistrate_n which_o can_v not_o be_v so_o if_o your_o seignory_n may_v aswell_o retain_v their_o authority_n under_o a_o christian_a prince_n and_o in_o the_o time_n of_o peace_n be_v under_o a_o tyrant_n and_o in_o the_o time_n of_o persecution_n for_o tell_v i_o i_o pray_v you_o what_o authority_n ecclesiastical_a remain_v to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n where_o this_o seignory_n be_v establish_v he_o who_o please_v may_v find_v this_o opinion_n large_o consute_v by_o beza_n de_fw-fr presbyterio_n contra_fw-la erasmum_fw-la and_o by_o i._o b._n a._n c._n polit_fw-la civil_a &_o eccles._n 140_o in_o the_o mean_a while_o i_o answer_v first_o t._n c._n have_v make_v a_o sufficient_a reply_n hereunto_o which_o whitgift_n here_o in_o his_o defence_n shall_v have_v confute_v but_o have_v not_o viz._n that_o if_o the_o senior_n under_o a_o tyrant_n have_v meddle_v with_o any_o office_n of_o a_o magistrate_n than_o there_o have_v be_v some_o cause_n why_o a_o godly_a magistrate_n be_v in_o the_o church_n the_o office_n of_o a_o senior_n or_o at_o least_o so_o much_o as_o