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A69195 Certaine demandes with their grounds, drawne out of holy writ, and propounded in foro conscientiæ by some religious gentl. vnto the reverend fathers, Richard archbishop of Canterbury, Richard bishop of London, William bishop of Lincolne, Garvase bishop of Worcester, William bishop of Exeter, & Thomas bishop of Peterbourough wherevnto the said gentl. require that it would please their lordships to make a true, plaine, direct, honest and resolute aunswere. Bancroft, Richard, 1544-1610. 1605 (1605) STC 6572.5; ESTC S112734 57,418 70

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as that not only they content not thē selves by eating flesh themselves to grieve to offend a weak brother to give him an occasion to sinne but also cōmand a weake brother to eate that meate by eating wherof he can not but fal but stumble but grieve but offend but sinne and but destroy him selfe This kind of charitie may deserve vnhappely the name of some Synodal or Provincial charitie but certes it can neverworthely deserve to be called an Apostolicall charitie But Sirs you mistake the matter very much you deceive your selves draw not the cases rightly The vse of Crosses Copes Surplices Cappes kneelings are cōmanded by the christiā Magistrates soveraigne authority only as things indifferēt for orders sake not that men should be grieved and offended or that they should fall stumble sinne destroy them selves Touching the christian Magistrates authoritie about ordering rites ceremonies in the church we have somewhat at large argued before which we had thought might have fully satisfied your Lordships but because it pleaseth you still to presse vs with the same we must once againe plainly signifie vnto you that we beleeve that your selves do not attribute any more spirituall authoritie vnto the King to make constitute and ordeine canons constitutions rites or ceremonies then you give vnto him spirituall power to preach the word administer the Sacraments and excommunicate For we beleeve that your selves with the residue of the clergie assembled by the Kings writt in your convocation doe chalendge all spirituall power vnto your selves to make ordeine and decree all maner of canons constitutions ordinances ornaments rites and ceremonies in the Church Yea and this spirituall power we beleeve that you pretend to be derived vnto your selves and the rest of the clergie in the convocation not from any spirituall power invested in the person of our soveraigne Lord the King but onely from the spirituall power of our Saviour Christ alone And this is manifest by your Cxxxix canon for so are your words Whosoever shall hereafter affirme that the Sacred Synode of this nation in the name of Christ and by the Kings authoritie assembled is not the church of England by representation let him be excommunicated c. These wordes wee say of your canon viz. Sacred Synod is assembled in the name of Christ and by authoritie of the King plainely testifie that you hold your Synode not to be assembled by authoritie of the King in the name of the King or in the name of Christ and the King but only in the name of Christ And therefore by your owne wordes wee are inforced to beleeve that you attribute vnto the King none other authoritie then such as you attribute to the godly Kinges of Judah namely an authoritie to assemble and command your persons as they assembled and commanded the persons of the Priestes What to execute the rites and ceremonies of the Kinges of Iudah No but to execute the rites and ceremonies of God And so we beleeve your persons being assembled by authoritie and commandement of the King that your selves by your owne authoritie and that in the name and by the power of Christ and not in the name and power of the King doe ordeine decree and make canons constitutions rites and ceremonies as if they were sent vnto vs by your handes from God And thus much doe the very first words of your first canon and some words in your 140. 141. canons clearly prove For howsoever in the title of your book you vse these words Constitutions and Canons treated and agreed vpon by the Bishop of London c. Yet both in the proheme body of your first canō you affirme as followeth In your proheme or title you say thus the Kings supremacy over the church of Englād in causes ecclesiastical you say not over the church causes but over the church in causes and in the body of the same canō you say we first decree ordeine that the Archb. of Canterbury c. and in the Cxl. canon your words are these Whosoever shall affime that no maner of person c. are to be subiect to the decrees therof speaking of the Synod eccllesiasticall made ratified by the kings Maiesties supreame authority c. let him be c. your words also in your last canō are these whosoever shal hereafter affirm c. that the sacred Sinod assembled c. was a company of persons c. in making canons cōstitutions in causes ecclesiasticall c. ought to be despised c. the same being ratified confirmed and inioyned by the regall power supremacie and authoritie lett them be excommunicated Now by all these your owne words and sentences we decree ordeine decrees of the Synod making canons by the sacred Synod ratified confirmed inioyned by the regall power c. by all these words we say we can not but beleeve that you chalendge your ecclesiasticall power of ordeining decreeing making decrees canons constitutions rites and ceremonies to be invested in your owne persons assembled by authoritie of the King from the authoritie and power of Christ and not from any spirituall or ecclesiasticall power invested in the person of the King and derived and conveighed vnto your persons assembled by his regall writt For then how should we not beleeve also but that you iudged the Kings writt to be no civil but an ecclesiasticall and spirituall writt But howsoever as yet wee beleeve not this latter yet still we beleeve that you appropriate vnto your owne persons assembled by the Kings writt a sole power and that from our Saviour Christ to give vnto your decrees canons constitutions rites and ceremonies their first being and their first birthright and that you assigne vnto the King none other power but a power of their after birth of ratifying and confirming of that life being which your persons have first put into them So that the King is in this but as it were an executioner of your canons and not you the executioners of the Kings decrees Yea thus much M. Doctor Bilson in his Book intituled True difference betweene Christian subiection vnchristian rebellion Pag. 243. avoweth testifieth whose words are these We never said that Princes had any spirituall power it is a false collection of yours it is no part of our cōfession the sword which they bear we never called but external tēporall Againe to devise new rites and ceremonies for the Church is not the Princes vocation but to receive and allow such as the Scriptures and canons commend and such as the Bishops Pastours of the place shall advise not infringing the Scriptures or canons so for all other ecclesiasticall things causes Princes be neither the devisors nor directors of them but the confirmers and establishers of that which is good and displacers and revengers of that which is evill which power we say they have in all things be they spirituall