Separation from a true Church to be sinful who can help that The great number that have liv'd and dy'd in that Opinion does not make the thing less sinful The Donatists in the African Church were more numerous that our English Dissenters are and had 't is likely as many sober and learned Divines among ' em For at the Conference at Carthage they had 400 Bishops yet these were condemn'd for Schismaticks by St. Austin and all the Catholick Bishops And the things that these Donatists separated from the Church for were for the most part the very same that our present Dissenters make the cause of their separation from the Church of England They thought the Bishopricks too large and the Power of the Bishops too great They refus'd to join in Communion with the Catholicks because sinners were admitted there They forsook the Ministers because they were not so agreeable to their humour as they would have them * Optatus Malevianus lib. 2. p. 47. They would not suffer any to speak in the Churches but the Ministers and stopt the mouths of all the People They held that the Civil Magistrate had no Power to Reform the Church They made a shew of greater Zeal for the Purity of Religion than other People and by their stiff rigorous severity which they shew'd and the vehement out-crys which they made that Discipline was not duly executed Many of the People not well grounded in the truth were terrified and turned unto them believing them to be the most zealous holy Men and the only true Church in the World Finally they condemn'd all other Churches as not true Churches See all this in Gifford a Non-conformist Minister his Book against the Brownists 2. part These are the very pretences that our present Dissenters make for their separating from this Church Our Bishopricks are too large our Churches not according to Christ's Institution our Ministers unable and ungodly our way of Worship false our Magistrates assume an unwarranted Power in Church Matters Yea and in their over pretending to Purity and Godliness they are exact Donatists and by that very means do draw the more ignorant and zealous sort of People to them as the Brownists did No People pretend so much to Purity and Religion as they do In all places where they have their publick Meetings they are sure to begin before the Parish Churches and end after be they as long as they will But yet go in to one of their Meetings and you shall see as little signs of Devotion and as many of the People asleep as in any Parish Church in the Kingdom for the number So in their common Discourse many of them will scarce allow themselves so much liberty as to make them good company for fear they should happen to tell a lye but yet in their Dealings they will over-reach a Customer in a Bargain and use as many equivocations to deceive him as any other People shall But least you think I do them wrong let us hear what the learned Mr. Baxter says of them you won't believe that he would wrong them In his Poor Man's Family Book p. 221. speaking of such who run into Parties by Divisions says he Those injudicious sort of Christians having an over high esteem of their own Vnderstandings and Godliness and desiring to be made conspicuous for their Godliness in the World separate from ordinary Christians as below them and unworthy of their Communion these Sects have ever been the Nests of Errors And again ib. p. 331. he bids us beware of joining our selves to Separate Meetings who pretend to stricter Discipline and greater Purity who set themselves up Factiously and Contentiously against the Concordant Churches on pretence of greater Purity whose Meetings are imployed in Reviling others and Condemning other Churches and puffing themselves up with Pride as if they were the only Churches of Christ But our Dissenters will say This is a scandalous abuse to say that they condemn all other Reformed Churches in the World But I doubt they agree with the Donatists even in this For I suppose they will condemn all those that account them Schismaticks And this do all the Reformed Churches for they all hold that Separation from a true Church is Schism and own the Church of England for a true Church and consequently make them Schismaticks and so have expresly declared them as appears before Again I suppose they will condemn all Churches that communicate with an Idolatrous Anti-Christian Church knowing her faults some of them declare the Church of England to be such a Church and then they must condemn all the Reformed Churches which communicate with her Well say the Dissenters You of the Church of England have a great deal to say for your selves and if all be true that you have told us our Separation from you is sinful and unreasonable But what reason have we to believe you we have a great many able and godly Ministers of our own who tell us the quite contrary 't is certain they can't both be in the right why may we not then believe your Ministers may be deceived as well as ours I answer 'T is not so likely that all the Divines of the Church of England that have been since the Reformation should be deceived in a thing of this nature as that those of the Non-conformists should First Because they are much more numerous and 't is not so likely that a great many good Men should be deceived as a few 'T is a Rule in Logick Quod plures sapentiores testantur credibile est esse verum And Secondly Because they have much better means to come to the knowledge of the Truth than those of the Non-conformists can pretend to as will plainly appear by considering the Method taken on both sides for the breeding up of Divines Those who are design'd for the Study of Divinity in the Church of England are kept at the best Schools that can conveniently be had till they understand Latin and Greek very well then they are admitted into one of the Universities where they are put under the Care of a particular Tutor who is always one of the Fellows of the College and consequently a Man well approved of by the whole College for his Learning and Sobriety for by the Statutes of every College none but such are qualified for Fellowships This Tutor has seldom above 20. Students under his Care at a time and many of them not half that number every Student comes twice a day to his Tutor's Chamber to be instructed by him And besides this the College appoints other Tutors or publick Lecturers who are to teach and instruct them in the publick Halls some for Philosophy some for Disputations and other Exercises These publick Tutors are changed every year which is a great Advantage to the Students by acquainting them with the several Methods and Opinions of such variety of Learned Men. Thus they spend the first four Years and then after very strict
join your self to that separated Church till you can prove that the hurt that will follow by discord offence division encouraging of Schisms and Pride c. is not likely to be greater than your benefit can compensate but if this separate Church be a factious Church set up contentiously against the Concordant Churches tho' on pretence of greater purity and if their Meetings be imploy'd in contemning and reviling other Churches whose People are not of their mind and in puffing up themselves with Pride as if they were the only true Churches of Christ avoid such separate Churches as the enemies of Love and Peace And again in the same Book p. 336. he bids us Not peevishly pick quarrels with the Prayers of the Church nor come to them with humorsome prejudice think not that you must stay away or go out of the Church for every passage that is disorderly unmeet yea or unsound or untrue for the words of Prayer are the work of Men and while all Men are fallible imperfect and sinful their Prayers and Preaching will be like themselves and he that is the highest pretender and the peevishest quarrelier hath his own failings c. So that if our Dissenters will allow their own Mr. Baxter to be a competent judge or any of the other learned Divines beforesaid they must own that neither the weakness of the Ministry nor better Edification is a sufficient cause for Separation But there is another thing say they which makes it necessary for us to separate from the Church of England and that is the Oaths and Subscriptions which they require from us What says Mr. Baxter to this Why Mr. Baxter in his Poor Man's Family Book p. 331. says If a Church in other respects sound require of you any false Subscriptions Promises or Oaths or any unlawful thing you must not do it but hold Communion in other lawful things It seems then he does not allow of Separation upon this account neither The Scruples which Men make to the Oaths and Declarations are grounded upon mistakes for that they But for the farther satisfying of such well meaning Persons as are scrupulous 't were much to be wish'd that these Oaths Subscriptions c. and the other things required by the Act of Uniformity were altered and explained by Act of Parliament according to the Bill drawn up by the Dean of St. Pauls which the Dissenters especially the Presbyterians are willing to agree to and have made the very same Proposals themselves in their Answer to Dr. Stillingfleet ' s Sermon at the latter end Vide. take the words in a strained and unnatural Sence Whereas if they would remember what the famous Bishop Sanderson tells us De Juran Praelect 6. sect 12. p. 177. And what all learned Men do agree in to wit That in every Oath all those Conditions or Exceptions ought to be understood which by right or common use are implied in it viz. as far as I can ' and 't is lawful for me things remaining in the same state c. With these Conditions there is nothing in these Oaths or Subscriptions that can reasonably be scrupled and without them 't is impossible to frame an Oath that a Man can safely venter to swear to Besides though these Subscriptions were sufficient cause for Separation how can the Lay People justifie their Separation upon this account No such Oaths or Subscriptions are required of them they are only required from the Ministers Why then do the People forsake the Church Is it in reverence to the Ministers least they should have none to Preach to This is what they never could answer with any colour of Reason and therefore many of the Non-Conformist Ministers do frequently in discourse fairly and honestly own that the Terms of Lay-Communion with the Church of England are easy enough but the only thing they stick at is the terms of Ministerial Communion The only Answer that ever I heard made to this is in a Book call'd An Answer to Dr. Stillingfleet ' s Sermon by some Non-Conformists pag. 6. They tell us That they must not justifie themselves in their Preaching and leave the People in Schism I must needs say this was kindly done of them for 't were very unfriendly in them to draw the poor silly People into Schism and when they have done to slip their own Necks out of the collar and leave the People in the lurch and therefore they quickly find an Answer to stop their Mouths whom they knew would never examine it Say they we are Ministers of Christ and have a Commission to Preach and therefore the People may lawfully forsake the Church to hear us for we must not Preach to the Stone Walls But pray will this Reason justifie the People in leaving their Parish Church and their own lawful Minister to run after a stranger for fear he should want a Congregation to Preach to If the King should give a Gentleman a Commission to raise a Regiment does this oblige Men that have formerly Listed themselves under other Officers to leave their Service and follow him No sure There are in the Two Universities many Hundred young Men that are qualified for the Ministry perhaps as well as most of the Non-Conformist Ministers and are not yet called to the Office nor provided with Churches suppose all these now were admitted into Orders and scatter'd all over the Kingdom are the People obliged to run away from their lawful Minister orderly set over them and divide the Parishes each perhaps into Three or Four to furnish all these new made Ministers with Congregations to Preach to An excellent contrivance this of our Reverend Non-Conformist Ministers to entail the Church Revenue upon them and their Successors for ever without being beholding to King Bishop or Patron and without any possibility of ever being cut off or forfeited all the Lawyers in England could not have devised so good a security for them as they have subtlely done here for themselves They may Preach what Doctrine they please for the Government or against it they have a Commission to Preach and the People are therefore bound they say to hear them For Preaching and Hearing they say are Relatives and the one does necessarily suppose the other 'T is true indeed actual Preaching supposes Hearing so do actual Governours necessarily suppose a People to be Govern'd But a Commission to Govern does not necessarily suppose a People actually to be Govern'd for there may be Governours appointed and made though there be then no People for them to Govern as was resolved by all the Judges of England in the Case of Sutton's Hospital Co. Rep. 10. fol. 32. a. So their Commission to Preach does not necessarily draw with it People to be preached to but only warrants their Preaching where 't is really wanted and when they can have People to Preach to without injuring others or disturbing the Peace of a settled true Christian Church But to say no more in a matter
Churches by the Example of the Apostolical Churches And ibid. Sect. 10. he says That the Lord esteem'd him a runnagade and forsaker of Religion whosoever he be that separated frowardly from any Christian Society which imbraceth but the true Ministry of the Word and Sacraments And ibid. Sect. 12. he says That though something that is faulty may creep in either in the Administration of the Word or of the Sacraments yet we ought not to separate us from the Communion of that Church For says he there are principles of Religion without which we cannot be saved and there are other points in which Men may differ and yet the Vnity of the Faith be kept And ibid. Sect. 13. he says It is not for every private Man to separate from the Communion of a Church tho' faulty in some things c. Beza in his Epist 24. p. 148. agrees herein so does Monsieur Daille and several other of the Foreign Divines See Dr. Still Misch of Separ 23. and 97. so does the Assembly of Divines as I have just now shewn and Papers for Accommodation p. 52. they declare farther That they look upon Separation from a true Church tho' somethings may be amiss in it not as a sin of mere humane Infirmity but as a wilful and dangerous sin And Mr. Baxter in his Poor Man's Family Book p. 347. tells us Many Churches were blam'd in Scripture but none are requir'd to Separate from them See the Answer to Dr. Stillingfleet's Sermon by several Non-conformists where they all acknowledge our Worship in the nature of it to be intrinsecally good and a total Separation from it sinful ibid. p. 31. So then it seems so long as a Church retains the Marks and Signs of a true Church tho' there be many things amiss in such a Church Separation from it is sinful But what if open sinners be admitted to the Communion before they have made publick Confession of their Faults as is too frequent in the Church of England must I be obliged to communicate with such May I not Separate in such case The Apostle 1 Cor. 5. 11 12 13. bids us If any that is call'd a brother be a Fornicator an Idolater or Covetous c. with such see that ye eat not I answer That this very reason did the Donatists in St. Augustine's days give among others for their Separation and quoted the same Texts of Scripture but they were condemn'd for Schismaticks as I shewed before And St. Augustine and all the Catholick Bishops did then agree that these Texts were meant only of Separation in heart not in body And therefore they say When such a multitude offends as that the casting of them out would be in danger to cause a Schism there they ought to be tolerated least while ye go about to pull up the tares ye pull up the wheat also therefore let them both grow together say they till the harvest But when only a few are guilty of scandalous sins there they say Let not the severity of Discipline cease but it must not be so severe as to root up but to amend See Aug. lib. 3. against Permenian a Donatist Bishop ch 3. lib. 2. c. 18. And herewith agrees Calv. lib. 4. Instit c. 1. sect 13. where he says That tho' sinners be admitted to Communion we ought to keep our selves from their followship but not to Separate from the Church Mr. Baxter says the same in his Poor Man's Family Book p. 347. and Vines on the Sacrament p. 39. But suppose the Parson of the Parish be weak or a Man of a loose Conversation and I can hear a better Preacher elsewhere and a Man of a more exemplary Holy Life and Conversation May not I go to that Church or Meeting where I find most Edification No For this still makes way for Schisms and Divisions in the Church and therefore was never allow'd in any regular Church provided the Parson of the Parish be tolerable The Followers of Estathius-Sebastenus who separated upon this account in Paphlagonia were condemned of Schism by the Council at Gangrae and see Calvin's Instit lib. 4. c. 1. sect 13. to the same purpose And indeed it is not reasonable that so ignorant and proud unpeaceable sort of People as Mr. Baxter himself in his Sacraleg Disert p. 102. c. confesses the ordinary sort of zealous Professors of Religion to be shou'd be at liberty to rend and tear a Church to pieces out of a conceit of a puere way of Worship as if they knew what was better for their Edification than the Wisdom of the whole Nation in Parliament and the Governors of the Church do The pretence of greater Edification was never allow'd by the Dissenters themselves heretofore as a sufficient cause for Separation as appears by the Papers for Accommodation and the Grand Debate both Printed when the Assembly of Divines sat at Westminster Nor did Mr. Baxter ever allow of this to be a sufficient cause for Separation as appears by his Cure of Divisions p. 393. where he sets forth the pernicious Consequences of complying with the ungovernable and factious Humours of the ordinary sort of People who are ever apt to revile the best and gravest Ministers and follow the more conceited and such as are of most fierce and bitter Spirits And in his Poor Man's Family Book p. 280. he says For want of understanding the right Terms of Church Communion how woful are our Divisions you must have Vnion and Communion in Faith and Love with all Christians Let your usual Meeting be with the purest Churches if you lawfully may and still respect the publick good But sometimes occasionally Communicate with defective faulty Churches so be it they are true Churches and put you not upon sin Think not that your presence makes all the faults of Ministry Worship or People to be yours for then I would join with no Church in the World Division is wounding and tends to Death abhor it as you love the Churches welfare or your own c. And again ib. p. 330. If your Minister says he be intolerable through Ignorance Heresy or Malignity forsake him utterly but if he be tolerable though weak and cold and if you cannot remove your dwelling then publick Order and your Soul's Edification must be joined as well as you can In London or other Cities you may go ordinarily to another Parish Church but in the Country and where 't would be a great offence you may one part of the day hear in one Parish and another in the next if there be a Man much fitter but notwithstanding you must communicate with the Church you dwell in And a little after he says I advise you if there be Parish Churches orderly settled under the Magistrates Countenance whose teachers are sound tho' an abler Minister should gather a separate Congregation in the same place out of that and other neighbouring Parishes and should have stricter Communicants and Discipline be not too forward to