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cause_n bishop_n church_n minister_n 1,640 5 6.7449 4 false
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A27046 A third defence of the cause of peace proving 1. the need of our concord, 2. the impossibility of it, on the terms of the present impositions against the accusations and storms of, viz., Mr. John Hinckley, a nameless impleader, a nameless reflector, or Speculum, &c., Mr. John Cheny's second accusation, Mr. Roger L'Strange, justice, &c., the Dialogue between the Pope and a fanatic, J. Varney's phanatic Prophesie / by Richard Baxter. Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. 1681 (1681) Wing B1419; ESTC R647 161,764 297

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chancellor_n be_v the_o king_n officer_n to_o govern_v the_o church_n circa_fw-la sacra_fw-la by_o the_o sword_n we_o will_v swear_v and_o perform_v obedience_n to_o they_o under_o the_o king_n in_o licitis_fw-la &_o honestis_fw-la but_o i_o tell_v you_o they_o that_o take_v they_o for_o the_o usurper_n of_o spiritual_a power_n will_v easy_o prove_v it_o to_o be_v lawful_a to_o swear_v obedience_n to_o usurper_n in_o licitis_fw-la &_o honestis_fw-la will_v you_o deny_v that_o 3._o and_o i_o tell_v you_o that_o it_o be_v another_o oath_n that_o be_v impose_v on_o we_o to_o take_v but_o do_v you_o well_o to_o say_v you_o produce_v the_o word_n of_o ignatius_n to_o prove_v the_o antiquity_n of_o swear_v to_o bishop_n who_o say_v not_o a_o syllable_n of_o any_o such_o thing_n and_o untrue_o say_v i_o take_v no_o notice_n of_o it_o when_o i_o tell_v you_o that_o ignatius_n mention_v not_o oath_n but_o only_o actual_a obedience_n this_o be_v no_o notice_n with_o you_o but_o do_v you_o not_o know_v how_o late_o it_o be_v before_o swear_v obedience_n to_o bishop_n come_v into_o the_o church_n and_o by_o what_o sort_n of_o man_n and_o to_o what_o end_n and_o effect_n §_o 52._o your_o talk_n of_o cartwright_n confirm_v i_o of_o the_o vanity_n of_o the_o hypocrite_n reward_n the_o praise_n of_o man_n there_o be_v nothing_o so_o false_a which_o may_v not_o by_o some_o man_n be_v say_v of_o they_o with_o bold_a confidence_n if_o cochleus_n or_o his_o like_a do_v but_o say_v that_o luther_n learn_v of_o the_o devil_n that_o calvin_n be_v a_o stigmatise_v sodomite_n etc._n etc._n all_o their_o follower_n can_v ever_o after_o say_v it_o be_v in_o print_n so_o mr._n s._n p._n some_o body_n print_v this_o you_o say_v and_o heylin_n say_v he_o promise_v what_o just_a the_o same_o or_o to_o the_o same_o sense_n as_o i_o tell_v you_o i_o voluntary_o subscribe_v when_o i_o may_v by_o the_o king_n declaration_n have_v choose_v mere_o because_o i_o will_v have_v they_o know_v our_o mind_n 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print_v long_o before_o that_o shall_v the_o liturgy_n be_v restore_v it_o be_v no_o sufficient_a cause_n &c_n &c_n when_o i_o be_v silence_v and_o may_v not_o preach_v in_o public_a the_o last_o sermon_n that_o ever_o i_o preach_v to_o some_o at_o my_o farewell_n in_o a_o private_a house_n be_v in_o conclusion_n to_o persuade_v all_o to_o keep_v to_o the_o public_a church_n where_o the_o minister_n be_v not_o notorious_o insufficient_a as_o to_o the_o very_a essential_o or_o notorious_a herctick_n or_o malignant_a opposer_n not_o of_o differ_v party_n but_o of_o the_o certain_a practice_n of_o godliness_n itself_o but_o when_o i_o have_v do_v my_o best_a then_o and_o since_o by_o other_o mean_n the_o read_v vicar_n and_o one_o sermon_n of_o the_o bishop_n and_o one_o of_o the_o dean_n and_o many_o of_o a_o lecturer_n after_o and_o they_o see_v so_o many_o hundred_o minister_n silence_v it_o possess_v they_o with_o so_o great_a a_o prejudice_n that_o till_o a_o good_a minister_n come_v 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a_o liberty_n to_o preach_v christ_n to_o ignorant_a soul_n must_v protestant_n greek_n and_o papist_n be_v all_o silence_a for_o want_v of_o loyalty_n i_o will_v subscribe_v to_o the_o utmost_a that_o which_o any_o of_o their_o confession_n give_v to_o king_n 4._o the_o nonconformist_n as_o far_o as_o i_o be_o acquaint_v with_o they_o have_v still_o be_v ready_a in_o express_a term_n to_o promise_n never_o to_o meddle_v in_o any_o war_n against_o the_o king_n nay_o to_o promise_n to_o employ_v their_o interest_n and_o labour_n to_o prvent_v it_o i●_n this_o will_v serve_v they_o shall_v not_o be_v silence_v be_v such_o as_o hooker_n and_o bilson_n think_v worthy_a of_o honour_n and_o be_v these_o principle_n of_o we_o so_o much_o less_o security_n against_o war_n as_o to_o leave_v we_o on_o that_o account_n uncapable_a to_o preach_v let_v but_o reason_n and_o humility_n be_v judge_n of_o your_o accusation_n and_o cause_n and_o here_o to_o shame_v yourself_o yet_o more_o marchiaement_n 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deny_v not_o that_o the_o worst_a among_o we_o be_v receive_v if_o they_o do_v but_o conform_v which_o show_v for_o what_o crime_n we_o be_v keep_v out_o and_o for_o your_o exclamation_n against_o we_o that_o come_v not_o in_o you_o will_v be_v impatient_a if_o i_o shall_v but_o describe_v your_o deal_n what_o if_o you_o live_v under_o in_o such_o a_o power_n of_o usurper_n as_o will_v say_v if_o all_o the_o minister_n in_o germany_n holland_n etc._n etc._n will_v under_o their_o hand_n or_o delibrate_o profess_v that_o no_o one_o in_o the_o kingdom_n be_v bind_v by_o the_o oath_n of_o supremacy_n or_o allegiance_n and_o promise_v that_o he_o will_v never_o endeavour_v the_o reformation_n of_o any_o corruption_n in_o religion_n but_o will_v assent_v and_o consent_v to_o every_o word_n in_o the_o interim_n and_o will_v use_v exorcism_n etc._n etc._n they_o shall_v have_v leave_n to_o preach_v else_o they_o shall_v all_o be_v silence_v and_o deprive_v of_o all_o ministerial_a liberty_n and_o maintenance_n and_o the●_n cassander_n shall_v have_v tell_v they_o that_o they_o shu●_n out_o themselves_o if_o they_o come_v not_o in_o i_o say_v not_o that_o our_o case_n be_v the_o same_o with_o this_o i_o know_v it_o be_v not_o but_o cassander_n deal_v more_o candid_o than_o you_o do_v be_v there_o any_o thing_n that_o can_v be_v impose_v that_o will_v make_v you_o a_o nonconformist_a if_o there_o be_v might_n non_fw-la any_o man_n talk_v to_o you_o at_o such_o rate_n even_o tie_v your_o leg_n and_o entreat_v you_o to_o go_v or_o blindfold_o you_o and_o say_v read_v who_o strike_v you_o §_o 6._o what_o need_v you_o more_o to_o the_o present_a case_n when_o you_o say_v that_o there_o be_v never_o a_o cherubin_n to_o hinder_v they_o than_o this_o that_o though_o it_o be_v no_o sin_n in_o your_o opinion_n it_o be_v a_o heinous_a sin_n in_o they_o and_o will_v your_o opinion_n prove_v it_o where_o we_o search_v as_o diligent_o as_o you_o do_v to_o know_v the_o truth_n if_o we_o be_v not_o as_o good_a as_o you_o you_o may_v allow_v we_o to_o love_v ourselves_o as_o well_o tell_v i_o what_o time_n of_o any_o usurpation_n have_v such_o imposition_n which_o the_o main_a body_n of_o the_o present_a conformist_n then_o in_o be_v do_v not_o conform_v or_o submit_v to_o or_o which_o they_o refuse_v to_o the_o cost_n of_o all_o their_o church_n maintenance_n for_o the_o liberty_n of_o preach_v too_o many_o of_o they_o can_v easy_o forego_v it_o i_o know_v that_o many_o be_v turn_v out_o by_o other_o that_o will_v glad_o have_v conform_v if_o that_o will_v but_o have_v be_v accept_v i_o know_v not_o three_o man_n in_o the_o three_o county_n about_o i_o that_o will_v not_o then_o have_v conform_v if_o that_o will_v have_v keep_v they_o in_o their_o live_n if_o there_o be_v more_o unknown_a to_o i_o there_o or_o elsewhere_o i_o will_v but_o have_v ask_v those_o man_n whether_o it_o be_v a_o sin_n that_o be_v impose_v on_o they_o and_o if_o so_o whether_o it_o will_v 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can_v do_v for_o all_o and_o he_o say_v it_o be_v all_o one_o to_o your_o doctrine_n if_o he_o refuse_v your_o church-covenant_n the_o minister_n all_o this_o while_n be_v no_o minister_n the_o people_n all_o this_o while_o be_v no_o christian_n they_o be_v no_o more_o lawful_a pastor_n and_o people_n than_o whoremonger_n and_o whore_n go_v together_o and_o commit_v act_n of_o filthiness_n and_o live_v in_o fornication_n all_o their_o day_n ans_fw-fr continue_a calumny_n as_o to_o i_o be_v no_o modesty_n or_o tender_a fear_n of_o sin_v against_o the_o nine_o commandment_n leave_v 1._o he_o that_o refuse_v consent_n to_o be_v a_o state_v member_n be_v none_o such_o but_o be_v he_o therefore_o no_o christian_a awake_v conscience_n do_v any_o independent_o say_v that_o none_o be_v christian_n but_o their_o special_a charge_n yea_o or_o state_v member_n of_o particular_a church_n if_o there_o be_v any_o such_o what_o be_v that_o to_o i_o 2._o such_o person_n may_v be_v member_n of_o the_o 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parish_n they_o be_v member_n against_o their_o will_n 3._o and_o they_o be_v member_n of_o two_o particular_a church_n one_o in_o despite_n of_o they_o and_o of_o the_o other_o as_o consenter_n 4._o there_o be_v some_o house_n that_o be_v in_o no_o parish_n that_o i_o have_v know_v alas_o these_o must_v be_v of_o no_o church_n 5._o some_o part_n of_o one_o parish_n be_v in_o the_o middle_n of_o another_o the_o truth_n be_v parish-bound_n be_v ordinary_o of_o good_a use_n for_o order_n and_o order_n be_v for_o edification_n and_o to_o promote_v the_o thing_n order_v and_o he_o lay_v it_o not_o waste_v 1._o that_o give_v it_o no_o more_o than_o its_o due_a as_o a_o humane_a mutable_a circumstance_n and_o not_o as_o essential_a 2._o nor_o he_o that_o refuse_v it_o when_o it_o be_v turn_v against_o the_o end_n and_o the_o res_fw-la ordinanda_fw-la §_o 20._o xvi_o he_o add_v than_o if_o the_o pastor_n set_v over_o they_o be_v a_o son_n of_o belial_n and_o sinful_o tolerate_v by_o the_o magistrate_n the_o people_n of_o the_o parish_n who_o can_v neither_o remove_v he_o nor_o sit_v under_o a_o more_o edify_a minister_n must_v covenant_v to_o he_o etc._n etc._n ans_fw-fr strange_a who_o will_v have_v think_v but_o this_o be_v near_o your_o opinion_n than_o they_o brief_o if_o the_o man_n be_v tolerable_a they_o must_v rather_o accept_v of_o he_o than_o have_v none_o if_o he_o be_v intolerable_a in_o the_o ministry_n they_o may_v use_v such_o common_a gift_n as_o he_o have_v as_o we_o read_v even_o a_o cicero_n but_o they_o must_v be_v of_o no_o particular_a church_n till_o they_o can_v be_v so_o on_o lawful_a term_n even_o a_o council_n of_o the_o pope_n decree_v that_o till_o man_n can_v have_v lawful_a pastor_n they_o must_v forbear_v that_o communion_n that_o suppose_v such_o and_o who_o can_v doubt_v of_o it_o §_o 21._o xvii_o next_o he_o quibble_n only_o with_o a_o question_n how_o long_o shall_v it_o last_v answ_n how_o long_o will_v you_o be_v of_o the_o parish-priest_n or_o the_o diocesan_n flock_v or_o of_o a_o physician_n hospital_n we_o can_v secure_v man_n from_o providential_a change_n a_o day_n and_o therefore_o will_v not_o have_v they_o to_o bind_v themselves_o but_o on_o such_o supposition_n he_o that_o mean_v to_o go_v to_o morrow_n to_o another_o country_n shall_v consent_v but_o to_o this_o day_n communion_n he_o that_o intend_v here_o to_o dwell_v must_v consent_v to_o the_o relation_n of_o a_o state_v member_n of_o that_o flock_n till_o he_o remove_v or_o till_o god_n show_v he_o just_a cause_n to_o change_v that_o relation_n till_o then_o he_o shall_v know_v his_o proper_a pastor_n §_o 22._o xviii_o next_o he_o question_v who_o shall_v degrade_v they_o that_o prove_v heretical_a or_o scandalous_a etc._n etc._n ans_fw-fr the_o ordainer_n make_v he_o a_o minister_n by_o investiture_n etc._n etc._n and_o yet_o without_o our_o consent_n he_o be_v not_o relate_v to_o we_o as_o our_o pastor_n or_o we_o to_o he_o as_o part_v of_o that_o church_n and_o so_o we_o may_v withdraw_v our_o consent_n and_o become_v none_o of_o his_o special_a church-flock_n and_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o ordainer_n to_o degrade_v he_o if_o he_o must_v be_v degrade_v as_o to_o the_o world_n and_o church_n universal_a one_o will_v think_v this_o answer_n shall_v be_v undeniable_a but_o he_o go_v on_o with_o his_o dismal_a accusation_n p._n 116._o the_o particular_a church-covenant_n be_v a_o thing_n of_o man_n invention_n no_o where_o require_v of_o god_n it_o be_v destructive_a to_o the_o church_n and_o soul_n shall_v it_o be_v practise_v ans_fw-fr see_v covenanting_a and_o know_v consent_v be_v all_o one_o with_o he_o what_o a_o dreadful_a damn_v sin_n do_v the_o man_n make_v it_o for_o to_o consent_v to_o be_v under_o our_o pastor_n office_n then_o he_o that_o will_v escape_v damnation_n must_v not_o consent_v to_o the_o office_n of_o the_o parish-priest_n much_o less_o of_o the_o bishop_n much_o less_o swear_v obedience_n to_o the_o bishop_n and_o lest_o of_o all_o say_v or_o swear_v never_o to_o endeavour_v any_o alteration_n we_o have_v need_v to_o bless_v we_o from_o conformity_n if_o consent_v be_v so_o damnable_a but_o what_o mean_v he_o to_o say_v shall_v it_o be_v practise_v do_v he_o not_o know_v that_o it_o be_v practise_v by_o they_o all_o and_o so_o that_o this_o judge_n do_v damn_v they_o all_o §_o 23._o xix_o he_o next_o answer_v two_o of_o our_o pretence_n 1._o from_o the_o election_n of_o minister_n by_o the_o people_n and_o say_v election_n be_v quite_o another_o thing_n till_o they_o be_v ordain_v they_o be_v no_o man_n in_o office_n but_o person_n design_v ans_fw-fr alas_o that_o the_o man_n that_o have_v all_o this_o while_n be_v damn_v other_o shall_v not_o see_v that_o he_o have_v so_o damn_v himself_o yea_o and_o quite_o exceed_v my_o damn_v error_n this_o it_o be_v to_o print_v with_o the_o zeal_n describe_v jam._n 3._o before_o man_n know_v what_o it_o be_v that_o they_o talk_v of_o note_v that_o he_o be_v not_o against_o the_o people_n election_n if_o he_o be_v intelligible_a and_o yet_o elsewhere_o they_o be_v rebel_n and_o no_o christian_n that_o stand_v not_o to_o the_o king_n and_o parliament_n election_n 2._o note_v that_o he_o talk_v of_o one_o election_n to_o the_o office_n of_o the_o ministry_n as_o such_o and_o i_o talk_v of_o another_o election_n even_o to_o be_v our_o particular_a pastor_n for_o this_o physician_n to_o be_v my_o physician_n 3._o note_v that_o the_o man_n bare_a word_n must_v against_o all_o common_a use_n and_o reason_n persuade_v we_o that_o consent_n which_o i_o require_v be_v more_o than_o election_n which_o be_v much_o less_o the_o elector_n nominate_v and_o first_o determine_v of_o the_o person_n consent_n may_v come_v after_o even_o in_o obedience_n