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cause_n	bishop_n	church_n	matter_n	1,900	5	5.4286	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A38575	A treatise of excommunication wherein 'tis fully, learnedly, and modestly demonstrated that there is no warrant ... for excommunicating any persons ... whilst they make an outward profession of the true Christian faith / written originally in Latine by ... Thomas Erastus ... about the year 1568.; Explicatio gravissimae quaestionis utrum excommunicatio. English	Erastus, Thomas, 1524-1583.	1682 (1682)	Wing E3218; ESTC R20859	61,430	96

1 Chron. from the 22th to the 27th Chapter Then for Solomon who was a King and no Priest he not onely built the Temple but dedicated it To the same purpose is that famous relation 2 Chron. 19. of Jehosaphat which being well consider'd gives great light to the matter in hand So does that of the good King Hezechia and indeed the whole Old Testament witnesses no less If therefore the State and Church was founded instituted and established upon so much Wisdom that which makes the nearest approaches to the Form and Model thereof as far as the present circumstances and different state of things will allow challenges at least our Praises and Approbation if not our Imitation And therefore in whatever Nation the Civil Magistrate is Christian Pious and Orthodox there 's no need of other persons who under another name or title should set a governing us and call us to account or punish us for our misdeeds as if there were no difference betwixt a Believing and Infidel Prince But says D. Wolfgangus Musculus in his common places de Magistratu from whom I have borrowed and transcribed what I said last 'T is a most pernicious Errour and big with dangerous Consequence that so many think no better of a Christian Magistracy than of an Heathen one whose power is to be allowed of no farther than meer Temporals If then Believing Governours had authority not onely to interpose in the ordering religious matters agreeable to Scripture-rules and to regulate the Offices and other the Ministerial parts about it which is the reason that Moses commands that when they should chuse them a King he should write him a Copy of the Law in a Book and that to be with him and he to read therein all the days of his life but had also power to punish Vice in the same manner 'T is a needless fruitless attempt for men to be now-a-days contriving and setting up new Models of Government which levels Magistrates themselves to the Rank and Condition of their Subjects for this Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction in point of Manners hath no place of Holy Writ to vouch for it or set it up not but that Civil Governours will do well to advise in all Doctrinals with those that are learned and have labour'd in the Word LXXV But now in those Churches whose mishap 't is to live under a Profane Government as in the Dominions of Turks and Papists they should make choice of pious sober persons who agreeable to St. Paul's command might arbitrate between contesting Members might take up Quarrels might do every thing of that nature might chide and admonish debauched flagitious men and such of the Ministry themselves who walk disorderly and if this avail not then might they punish them or rather recal them to a better temper by avoiding their company by debarring them of private Commerce by reprehending them publickly or by some such-like marks of their displeasure but to thrust them from that Sacrament which is of God's Institution when they are minded to come is more than any Church or man has a right to do for none can judge of the Heart but God alone It may chance that some sparks of Piety and Remorse may kindle in a sinners Soul whilst he sits in the Assembly which it can be no hurt nay may be greatly good to cherish since Religion forbids it not And how can it be I would fain ask but horrid absurd and impious to boot to turn away any man from publickly and solemnly paying his Thanks to God and commemorating the Death of his Saviour when he finds Impulses from within to do it and would fain celebrate it with his fellow-brethren the Church and declares 't is his hearty desire to be and continue a Member of it and that he would give publick testimony that his past life is irksom to himself APPENDIX IT will not be amiss perhaps by way of Corollary or Supplement to mention the Decrees that were made in the year 1523. at the Diet at Norimberg by all the Layety of the Imperial States and were sent to the Bishop of Rome for 't will appear by that that we are not the first who have started this Question but that the Divines began to think of it nigh 46 years since I am confident no man that is any whit vers'd in the German Affairs can believe or imagine that any such thing should be enacted but requested by them from the Bishop of Rome without the Clergies knowing of it But that the Authority may be the more authentick and the thing clearer I have been content to compare the German Copy which was writ at that Diet with the Latine one sent to the Pope and which Matth. Flac. Illyricus caus'd to be reprinted at Basil 1565. with his Book De Sectis Dissensionibus Papistarum and upon comparing both to publish the entire Decree or Act. Therefore among the 100 Grievances which were fuller express'd at this Session at Norimberg than they had two years before at Worms this following is the 34th Item Many Christians at Rome and in other places besides are by Archbishops Bishops and their Ecclesiastical Judges excommunicated for Civil causes and on a Temporal account whereby many weak Consciences are disturb'd and brought to despair so that upon a moneyscore and for the transitory things of this life and very often for very trivial causes are some brought into danger of perishing Soul and Body too contrary to the Law and Command of God besides the losses they suffer in Estates and Reputation thereby Whereas no person ought to be excommunicated or held for such unless he be convict of Heresie as the Holy Scripture bears witness And therefore the Lay-states of the Empire beseech your Pontificial Holiness that as becomes a godly and religious Father you would take away these Grievances of Excommunication at Rome or in the Roman Court and provide that the same be done every where else by the Archbishops Bishops and other Ecclesiastical Judges And lastly that your Holiness would command That no person be excommunicated or reputed for such for any cause whatever besides the plain and prov'd Crime of Heresie in matters relating to Religion for that no person ought to be separated or removed from God and his Church for any Temporal cause or otherwise or for any other humane crime except Infidelity or Heresie To the same purpose is that of Joh. Stumpias in his second Book of his Chronicon Helvet cap. 29. where he says That the Swedish Clergy about the year 1245. when Henry Landgrave of Turing and after his death William Earl of Holland were chosen by the instigation of the Pope in opposition to the Emperour Frederick the second and Conrade his Son taught with great constancy among other things That never was there such a Power granted to mortal man under the Sun to prohibit Christians Spiritual Duties and the Worship of God and therefore did they continue to say Mass says he though the Pope had interdicted them and denounced them Excommunicate FINIS Hieronym upon Tit. chap. 1. * See Mat. 11. 28. Luke 5. 5. Joh 4. 6. 1 Cor. 4. 12. Eph. 4. 28. 1 Thess 5. 12. which helps mightily to the explaining this 1 Tim. 5. 17. 1 Tim. 4. 10. 1 Cor. 15. 58. alibi

by their Commission v. 12. I can't imagine but that Agrippa and Festus too knew well enough whether it was lawful or not for their Council to do so and sure they would not have acquitted him in the manner they did v. 34 35. had not the Authority he had been committed by been warrantable for Paul should have offended no less against Caesar than against the Pharisees For he who doth an unlawful act by the permission and command of them who have no right nor authority to permit and command transgresses no less than they that command it but no such thing is charg'd upon the Accusers or Accused but Paul is fully acquitted as one that hath done nothing worthy of death or of bonds And had not the Jewish Sanedrim had this authority and liberty then lest them Pilate could not have said to them Joh. 18. 31. Take ye him and judge him according to your law And when they answer that it was not lawful for them to put any man to death this must be understood either as St. Augustin interprets it at the time of that Festival for fear of the People or as St. Chrysostom expounds it of that kind of Death which they desired that Christ should die With which latter Opinion the words of St. John which immediately follow very well agree to wit That the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled which he spake signifying what death he should die To the same purpose is that of Mat. 26. 55 56. where Christ says I sate dayly with you teaching in the temple and ye laid no hold no me but all this was done that the Scriptures of the Prophets might be fulfilled They took him therefore at a time when by reason of the Feast then at hand and for fear of the People they could not put him to death vid. Mat. 26 5. and Mark 14. 2. Since therefore they could not bear that he should live any longer and they could not well take his life away themselves it follows of course that he must be deliver'd into the hands of the Romans that so all things which he had Mat. 24. foretold his Disciples might be fulfilled as the words of St. John intimate and as Augustine and Chrysostom agree And those Cries and Vociferations of the People Crucifie him crucifie him give farther Testimony to this Interpretation L. By what has been said the falsity of that Affirmation is apparently detected which says that the Sanedrim had not the power of the Sword that is the authority of Life and Death and that Stephen was ston'd tumultuously by the Rabble and not by Decree of the Council For I think I have proved beyond all contradiction that such a Power they had and for St. Stephen's case 't is clear that he was not tumultuously slain for that Acts 6. 12. he was solemnly brought and accused before the Council Witnesses were produced though false ones v. 13. they carried him out of the City and those Witnesses as the Law provides cast the first stones at him as may be easily gather'd from their laying down their Clothes at Saul's feet v. 58. The same too may be as fully proved out of other Histories for Josephus in his fourteenth book of the Antiquity of the Jews ch 12. 16 17. according to the Greek Copies tells us That the Romans gave liberty to all Nations and by name to the Jews who dwelt in or out of Judea to use their own Laws in things relating to Religion and to live freely according to their own Rites and Customs And in that twelfth Chapter he quotes Strabo for his Author that he writing of the City Cyrene says they had there a President or Chief Ruler who heard and decided their Causes and transacted all affairs as absolutely as if they had been an Independent State That also makes farther for us which we read Acts 18. 15. of Gallio the Deputy of Achaia where he tells them that if it be a matter of their Law they may look to it The same Josephus lib. 16. ch 4 5. recounts how Herod had obtained of Agrippa that the Jews in Asia might have the freedom of enjoying the Priviledges before that time indulg'd them by the Romans I take occasion to remember this because some object that Herod destroy'd and slew all the Sanedrim and stript them of all Authority as if none had succeeded those that were kill'd How likely is it that Herod should take from them in Jerusalem that power of judging in matters relating to Religion and determining therein according to their Law who endeavour'd to procure and preserve the same to all the other Asiaticks Besides the time of Christ's preaching fell not under Herod or Archelaus but under the Government of Pilate 'T is certain that the Jews forced even Pilate himself to send again out of the City the Roman Standards which he had caused to be privately introduc'd to prevent the breach of Gods Commands of suffering any Image in the City And that they reserv'd and continued this Power to themselves to the very destruction of Jerusalem may be clearly gathered from Josephus his Oration to the Besieged The Romans says he in his fifth Book of the Wars of the Jews ch 26. exact Tribute of us for that our Forefathers have a long time been wont to pay it to theirs If in this you comply they 'll neither sack this our City nor meddle with our Temple but leave both you your Goods and Families free and the free use and enjoyment of your sacred Laws Titus himself after his having taken the City said almost the very same to the Jews lib. 6. chap. 34. Whether therefore we consult the Holy Writ or the Jewish History 't is an undoubted truth that that Sanedrim which Christ commanded to tell it unto had the power of the Sword the power of Life and Death especially over those who sin'd against their Religion for in Civil matters and Causes of Right and Wrong where the Law had not specified the Punishment I do not question but that the Romans encroached and usurp'd if not all yet most of them to themselves as is easily discernable out of History and may well be conjectur'd out of Acts 18. v. 12. LI. And 't is no ways repugnant to what we have said that in Josephus his Antiquities of the Jews some of them tell Albinus that it was not lawful for the High Priest to call the Sanedrim or Council without his leave For he there as an Historian relates what others did not that he applauds or approves of the Fact thereby Besides peradventure the High Priest during the interregnum that is whilst Albinus after the death of Festus was no his Journey thither ought not to summon a Court for a matter of that weight and moment till the new Governour confirm'd him in that Authority for he had procur'd that James the Lords Brother who was vulgarly sirnamed the Just should be put to death who being a person