Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	bishop_n	church_n	judgement_n	1,426	5	5.8624	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A91473	Independency accused by nine severall arguments: written by a godly learned minister, to a member of Mr. John Goodwins congregation, and acquitted by severall replyes to the said arguments by a member of the same church. In both which, sweetnesse of spirit, and soundnesse of arguments have been endeavoured. Published according to order.	I. P.	1645 (1645)	Wing P53A; Thomason E296_16; ESTC R200209	27,998	39

Pastor the Elders the Deacons and also the people did deliberate and determine of things belonging to the government of the Church 3. The Churches in the third hundred yeer Cen. 3. cap. 7. Tit. de Synodis privatis in principio Now that the jurisdiction of the great Churches over the lesse was established and the authority of metropolitanes determined by the Nicene Councel yet if any businesse happened which could not be perfected without the rest both Ministers people then they came together and dispatched them with common advice without the calling of the Churches of the same Province So Cyprian cited by them Epist l. 3. cap. 10. From the beginning of my being Bishop or Pastor I determined to do nothing without your counsell hee speaks to the Elders and Deacons nor without the consent of the people by my own private opinion In these assemblies in other Churches there were few orders made by the Bishops or Pastors and afterwards approved by the Church unlesse it was in Rome according to the efficacy of the mysterie of Iniquity they are the Authors words some Bishops made decrees as Damasus Galixtus c. By all which it appeares that the Churches most Primitive were ignorant of any necessity or law lying on them to be governed by one Church or more or of associating with any but as they saw cause and by the law of charity neither understood there was any Provinciall much lesse Nationall or universall and ministeriall and governing Church which must by way of authority dispose of all the affaires of the particular Churches Object But they excommunicated in their Assemblies of many Churches Answ 1. So did they in each particular Church as of their own right and consulted not with others unlesse the cause was difficult 2. The excommunication was rather of the opinion by damning and condemning of it then of persons 3. If there were such excommunication of persons yet it was done by the willing consent of the Churches or else for themselves those Churches that met not for others unlesse by consequent that he who is excommunicated out of one Church if it be duly performed is excommunicated out of all ARGUMENT II. WHy hath not the civill Magistrate a power to set up and establish by a law such a worship as an Assembly of godly Divines shal present to them to be according to the Word of God as well as they had a power to pull down false worship Popery Episcopacie Arminianisme and such grosse errors and innovations as had justled out the true servants and service of God and this they did with the approbations and acclamations of all those that professed the power of godlinesse of what Way or Sect soever they were I never heard of any such that accused them for stretching beyond their line therein If the subject matter of Politicall administration be meerly humane matters why did not Congregationall Divines inform them as much but were silent while they had their hands thrust deep into Church-affaires and things spirituall Why did not their jealousie over the Parliament break out when they saw them begin to dash the foot against that stone but gave thanks to God for them their doing but now when they have come to set up and it proves aworship against their judgement and conscience they are reproved and have no power at all in things Ecclesiasticall but every man must enjoy his conscience worship and way If they once had a power to pull down why have they not now power to pull down in the like case with the like proportioned approbation and if in things Ecclesiasticall they have a power to pull down why not to set up too That the civill Magistrate shall have a power in things spirituall and yet no power is a mysterie unto mee REPLY 1. THe government the Magistrate hath pulled down was erected as a Law of the kingdome and by that power was inabled to the persecution of the Saints and disturbance of the State which was the defection of the Magistracie of these times Now when the Magistrates shall not only withdraw their power but also prohibit the further exercise thereof in the persecution of the Saints and disturbance of the State we suppose it is no more then according to their just power and therefore do rejoyce therein 2. The Magistrates just doing any thing according to the joynt consent desire approbation and congratulatory acclamations of all the Saints is no good argument to prove a lawfull power in the Magistrate to do things contrary to the joynt consent desires c. of all the Saints Herod and Pilate Felix and Agrippa had a just power to release Christ and Paul c. but that doth not argue that their power was just in delivering them up unto whipping imprisonment death c. it was indeed potentia but not potestas might but not right and it is the latter I suppose that you mean 3. We did never deny the Magistrate a lawfull power to intermeddle with that kinde of Church-government or doctrine opinion or practice which shall most dangerously intermeddle with the State it self and thereby prove evidently hurtfull and apparently destructive thereunto and so did the government whereof you speak which was the ground of that act of abolishing the same When Congregationall or Presbyteriall government or the professors thereof be found in their principles and generall practices underminers of the peace and welfare of the kingdome raising up wars and trouble to maintain the same it is high time for the Magistrate who is mainly to minde salutem populi to pull them down and no longer to tolerate the same and such is the instance which you speak of 4. Those Christian or unchristian Magistrates may have a lawfull power and authority to destroy Antichrist which may have no lawfull authority to appoint lawes and rules for the government of the Churches of Jesus Christ and to enforce the same contrary to their judgements and consciences Cyrus may have a just warrant from God for the ruining of Babylon but not for the compulsion of Sion to worship God according to his thoughts of the will of God therein all Magistrates may and ought to assist and preserve the Churches of Jesus Christ from those that wonld ruine and destroy them but that any magistrate hath power to compell the Saints of God what to believe in matters of faith and what to practice in matters of immediate worship especially in things that are of an intricate and deep cognizance and controversall among the godly learned which is the main businesse in hand between the Presbyterian and Independent party is beyond any ground that I can yet perceive from the Scriptures but we shall meet with this again in another of your Arguments ARGUM. III. VVHy do not our Congregationall Divines write to the Brethren of New-England and convince them of their errour who give as some say the civill Magistrate a power to question doctrines censure errours

Independency accused By nine severall ARGUMENTS Written by a godly learned Minister to a Member of Mr. JOHN GOODWINS CONGREGATION AND Acquitted by severall REPLYES to the said ARGUMENTS by a Member of the same CHURCH In both which sweetnesse of spirit and soundnesse of Arguments have been endeavoured GALAT. 6.1 Brethren if a man be overtaken in a fault yee which are spirituall restore such a one in the spirit of meeknesse considering thy self lest thou also be tempted Published according to Order LONDON Printed for Henry Overton in Popes-head Alley 1645. To the Reverend my deare and loving Pastor Mr JOHN GOODWIN Pastor of the Church in Colemanstreet Deare and reverend Sir YOur favourable acceptance of my present pains and candid construction of engaging my self therein is my humble request by my present addresse whereof though mine own insufficiency might beget my suspicion yet the knowledge of your love which thinketh no evill gives me satisfaction for although the piety and parts of my ingenious Antagonist did challenge an opponent of sutable endowments and renders me presumptuous for my attempt therein unworthy to be named in competition with him yet the perfect knowledge of your pressing pains of severall kindes in the work of the Lord stopping the mouth which otherwaies would have begg'd your own labours in this present businesse together with the requests of some of our friends prest mee hereunto wherin if I have not prejudiced the Cause I plead for distasted you nor dishonoured God but though in the least measure have further'd the truth it is the highest ambition and greatest reward of The unworthiest to be numbred amongst your flock J. P. To the Reader Christian Reader VNity in judgement amongst the Saints is the promised blessing of another age but Unity in affection is our present duty confessed by all though the practice hereof be the care of few witnesse the bitter pens and railing lines of men professing the feare of God each against his brother i' th faith to the scandall of Religion and scorne of Profession dishonour of God and disgrace of the Gospel the joy of the Jesuite and hazard of the kingdome the stumbling of others coming into the paths of life seeing them trac'd with Lions and Bears and Wolves and Tygres in stead of Lambs and Doves the meek Saints of the most high God as if they had gotten a speciall dispensation in this present age to slander the persons traduce the actions reproach the names of their dearest brethren to fight the Lords battels with the Devils weapons and to trample under foot that royall Law of their liege Lord This is my commandement that you love one another ●oh 13.33 In this present Discourse thou shalt not observe allowance afforded to humane frailty the least tincture of that unchristian strain the minde of the Lord and truth of Christ being the mutuall designe of my opponent and my self I have not altered one word of his Letter only whereas he writ it entire I have presented thee with each Argument and immediate Replies with a different character between the one and the other for thy more distinct apprehension of both I say no more but prove and approve and the Lord direct thy heart into the knowledge and love of the truth I. P. My deare Friend YOu are not ignorant how respectfull and reverent I have carryed my self towards the Congregationall Way almost ever since you knew mee and daily am both praying and reading that I may be fully perswaded in mine own heart whether that or the other Way called Presbyterian b● the Way of God For this end I have given my self to the perusall of Mr. Goodwins Theomachia and his justification of it against Mr. Prynne and so farre as my judgment reaches he gets the better of him but yet some doubts I have to which I cannot pick answers out of both his books I dare not be guilty of that which hee so much pleads against blind obedience implicit faith I must not take up Religion by the lumps as once Mr. Thomas Goodwin said I must not pin my faith upon the sleeve of any person or persons upon earth though never so holy or learned as not knowing whither they may carry it the best of men are but men at best both God and men will expect from me that I be able to render a Scripturall Reason of my faith and conscience and therefore I request you earnestly to improve your interest in some friend you know I have no acquaintance with any Divine of that Way to communicate their light to mee in the following particulars and doubtlesse it will be an addition to my charitablenesse towards that Way if not quite pull me into 't for 't is my full purpose of heart to sall down before the truth when I meet it and know it I will be their's what ere come on 't that I find to have not the strangest hand but argument Deare Sir THe spirit of sobriety and Christian moderation doth so sweetly look through your lines casting such a gracious aspect of meeknesse humility with all lovely and Christian ingenuity and modesty that upon the first reading thereof I desired to ingage my self into your Christian acquaintance and to return an answer being desired hereunto according to my judgement unto your Letter being much encouraged by the spirit of your writing which promiseth mee a candid and an ingenuous interpretation of my mean indeavours and as the first fruits thereof I shall humbly desire these things of you First That you will please to passe by what you observe weak and wanting whereof you may find more then enough and to bestow your more serious considerations upon any thing if such a thing can be found which you may judge more valid the purest gold may be found in the grossest earth and arguments for truth are oftentimes like neighbours in their vicinity the poor weak and insufficient have the rich able and more sufficient for their support and comfort truth is welcome to a gracious heart though evidenced but by one or two sound arguments when many shall say Lo it is here or there and cannot shew it Secondly That you would be a Midwife to any argument which you judge pregnant and which hath truth in the belly thereof having strength to conceive but not to bring forth surely the sons of truth cannot but help the truth in straits which often suffers through the great insufficiencie of the abettors thereof the hearts of the Saints sometimes can better defend the truth discovered then their tongues or pens a nimble wit and learned head prove not alwayes the truths friend but Sir I do not prejudge you Thirdly That if we cannot agree in this truth yet wee may love one another in the truth let this be written in letters of gold upon the foreheads of all the Saints HOLINES TO THE LORD AND LOVE TO THE BRETHREN Faith and Love are the golden pillars supporting the hearts of the