Pastor the Elders the Deacons and also the people did deliberate and determine of things belonging to the government of the Church 3. The Churches in the third hundred yeer Cen. 3. cap. 7. Tit. de Synodis privatis in principio Now that the jurisdiction of the great Churches over the lesse was established and the authority of metropolitanes determined by the Nicene Councel yet if any businesse happened which could not be perfected without the rest both Ministers people then they came together and dispatched them with common advice without the calling of the Churches of the same Province So Cyprian cited by them Epist l. 3. cap. 10. From the beginning of my being Bishop or Pastor I determined to do nothing without your counsell hee speaks to the Elders and Deacons nor without the consent of the people by my own private opinion In these assemblies in other Churches there were few orders made by the Bishops or Pastors and afterwards approved by the Church unlesse it was in Rome according to the efficacy of the mysterie of Iniquity they are the Authors words some Bishops made decrees as Damasus Galixtus c. By all which it appeares that the Churches most Primitive were ignorant of any necessity or law lying on them to be governed by one Church or more or of associating with any but as they saw cause and by the law of charity neither understood there was any Provinciall much lesse Nationall or universall and ministeriall and governing Church which must by way of authority dispose of all the affaires of the particular Churches Object But they excommunicated in their Assemblies of many Churches Answ 1. So did they in each particular Church as of their own right and consulted not with others unlesse the cause was difficult 2. The excommunication was rather of the opinion by damning and condemning of it then of persons 3. If there were such excommunication of persons yet it was done by the willing consent of the Churches or else for themselves those Churches that met not for others unlesse by consequent that he who is excommunicated out of one Church if it be duly performed is excommunicated out of all ARGUMENT II. WHy hath not the civill Magistrate a power to set up and establish by a law such a worship as an Assembly of godly Divines shal present to them to be according to the Word of God as well as they had a power to pull down false worship Popery Episcopacie Arminianisme and such grosse errors and innovations as had justled out the true servants and service of God and this they did with the approbations and acclamations of all those that professed the power of godlinesse of what Way or Sect soever they were I never heard of any such that accused them for stretching beyond their line therein If the subject matter of Politicall administration be meerly humane matters why did not Congregationall Divines inform them as much but were silent while they had their hands thrust deep into Church-affaires and things spirituall Why did not their jealousie over the Parliament break out when they saw them begin to dash the foot against that stone but gave thanks to God for them their doing but now when they have come to set up and it proves aworship against their judgement and conscience they are reproved and have no power at all in things Ecclesiasticall but every man must enjoy his conscience worship and way If they once had a power to pull down why have they not now power to pull down in the like case with the like proportioned approbation and if in things Ecclesiasticall they have a power to pull down why not to set up too That the civill Magistrate shall have a power in things spirituall and yet no power is a mysterie unto mee REPLY 1. THe government the Magistrate hath pulled down was erected as a Law of the kingdome and by that power was inabled to the persecution of the Saints and disturbance of the State which was the defection of the Magistracie of these times Now when the Magistrates shall not only withdraw their power but also prohibit the further exercise thereof in the persecution of the Saints and disturbance of the State we suppose it is no more then according to their just power and therefore do rejoyce therein 2. The Magistrates just doing any thing according to the joynt consent desire approbation and congratulatory acclamations of all the Saints is no good argument to prove a lawfull power in the Magistrate to do things contrary to the joynt consent desires c. of all the Saints Herod and Pilate Felix and Agrippa had a just power to release Christ and Paul c. but that doth not argue that their power was just in delivering them up unto whipping imprisonment death c. it was indeed potentia but not potestas might but not right and it is the latter I suppose that you mean 3. We did never deny the Magistrate a lawfull power to intermeddle with that kinde of Church-government or doctrine opinion or practice which shall most dangerously intermeddle with the State it self and thereby prove evidently hurtfull and apparently destructive thereunto and so did the government whereof you speak which was the ground of that act of abolishing the same When Congregationall or Presbyteriall government or the professors thereof be found in their principles and generall practices underminers of the peace and welfare of the kingdome raising up wars and trouble to maintain the same it is high time for the Magistrate who is mainly to minde salutem populi to pull them down and no longer to tolerate the same and such is the instance which you speak of 4. Those Christian or unchristian Magistrates may have a lawfull power and authority to destroy Antichrist which may have no lawfull authority to appoint lawes and rules for the government of the Churches of Jesus Christ and to enforce the same contrary to their judgements and consciences Cyrus may have a just warrant from God for the ruining of Babylon but not for the compulsion of Sion to worship God according to his thoughts of the will of God therein all Magistrates may and ought to assist and preserve the Churches of Jesus Christ from those that wonld ruine and destroy them but that any magistrate hath power to compell the Saints of God what to believe in matters of faith and what to practice in matters of immediate worship especially in things that are of an intricate and deep cognizance and controversall among the godly learned which is the main businesse in hand between the Presbyterian and Independent party is beyond any ground that I can yet perceive from the Scriptures but we shall meet with this again in another of your Arguments ARGUM. III. VVHy do not our Congregationall Divines write to the Brethren of New-England and convince them of their errour who give as some say the civill Magistrate a power to question doctrines censure errours
Independency accused By nine severall ARGUMENTS Written by a godly learned Minister to a Member of Mr. JOHN GOODWINS CONGREGATION AND Acquitted by severall REPLYES to the said ARGUMENTS by a Member of the same CHURCH In both which sweetnesse of spirit and soundnesse of Arguments have been endeavoured GALAT. 6.1 Brethren if a man be overtaken in a fault yee which are spirituall restore such a one in the spirit of meeknesse considering thy self lest thou also be tempted Published according to Order LONDON Printed for Henry Overton in Popes-head Alley 1645. To the Reverend my deare and loving Pastor Mr JOHN GOODWIN Pastor of the Church in Colemanstreet Deare and reverend Sir YOur favourable acceptance of my present pains and candid construction of engaging my self therein is my humble request by my present addresse whereof though mine own insufficiency might beget my suspicion yet the knowledge of your love which thinketh no evill gives me satisfaction for although the piety and parts of my ingenious Antagonist did challenge an opponent of sutable endowments and renders me presumptuous for my attempt therein unworthy to be named in competition with him yet the perfect knowledge of your pressing pains of severall kindes in the work of the Lord stopping the mouth which otherwaies would have begg'd your own labours in this present businesse together with the requests of some of our friends prest mee hereunto wherin if I have not prejudiced the Cause I plead for distasted you nor dishonoured God but though in the least measure have further'd the truth it is the highest ambition and greatest reward of The unworthiest to be numbred amongst your flock J. P. To the Reader Christian Reader VNity in judgement amongst the Saints is the promised blessing of another age but Unity in affection is our present duty confessed by all though the practice hereof be the care of few witnesse the bitter pens and railing lines of men professing the feare of God each against his brother i' th faith to the scandall of Religion and scorne of Profession dishonour of God and disgrace of the Gospel the joy of the Jesuite and hazard of the kingdome the stumbling of others coming into the paths of life seeing them trac'd with Lions and Bears and Wolves and Tygres in stead of Lambs and Doves the meek Saints of the most high God as if they had gotten a speciall dispensation in this present age to slander the persons traduce the actions reproach the names of their dearest brethren to fight the Lords battels with the Devils weapons and to trample under foot that royall Law of their liege Lord This is my commandement that you love one another â—oh 13.33 In this present Discourse thou shalt not observe allowance afforded to humane frailty the least tincture of that unchristian strain the minde of the Lord and truth of Christ being the mutuall designe of my opponent and my self I have not altered one word of his Letter only whereas he writ it entire I have presented thee with each Argument and immediate Replies with a different character between the one and the other for thy more distinct apprehension of both I say no more but prove and approve and the Lord direct thy heart into the knowledge and love of the truth I. P. My deare Friend YOu are not ignorant how respectfull and reverent I have carryed my self towards the Congregationall Way almost ever since you knew mee and daily am both praying and reading that I may be fully perswaded in mine own heart whether that or the other Way called Presbyterian bâ— the Way of God For this end I have given my self to the perusall of Mr. Goodwins Theomachia and his justification of it against Mr. Prynne and so farre as my judgment reaches he gets the better of him but yet some doubts I have to which I cannot pick answers out of both his books I dare not be guilty of that which hee so much pleads against blind obedience implicit faith I must not take up Religion by the lumps as once Mr. Thomas Goodwin said I must not pin my faith upon the sleeve of any person or persons upon earth though never so holy or learned as not knowing whither they may carry it the best of men are but men at best both God and men will expect from me that I be able to render a Scripturall Reason of my faith and conscience and therefore I request you earnestly to improve your interest in some friend you know I have no acquaintance with any Divine of that Way to communicate their light to mee in the following particulars and doubtlesse it will be an addition to my charitablenesse towards that Way if not quite pull me into 't for 't is my full purpose of heart to sall down before the truth when I meet it and know it I will be their's what ere come on 't that I find to have not the strangest hand but argument Deare Sir THe spirit of sobriety and Christian moderation doth so sweetly look through your lines casting such a gracious aspect of meeknesse humility with all lovely and Christian ingenuity and modesty that upon the first reading thereof I desired to ingage my self into your Christian acquaintance and to return an answer being desired hereunto according to my judgement unto your Letter being much encouraged by the spirit of your writing which promiseth mee a candid and an ingenuous interpretation of my mean indeavours and as the first fruits thereof I shall humbly desire these things of you First That you will please to passe by what you observe weak and wanting whereof you may find more then enough and to bestow your more serious considerations upon any thing if such a thing can be found which you may judge more valid the purest gold may be found in the grossest earth and arguments for truth are oftentimes like neighbours in their vicinity the poor weak and insufficient have the rich able and more sufficient for their support and comfort truth is welcome to a gracious heart though evidenced but by one or two sound arguments when many shall say Lo it is here or there and cannot shew it Secondly That you would be a Midwife to any argument which you judge pregnant and which hath truth in the belly thereof having strength to conceive but not to bring forth surely the sons of truth cannot but help the truth in straits which often suffers through the great insufficiencie of the abettors thereof the hearts of the Saints sometimes can better defend the truth discovered then their tongues or pens a nimble wit and learned head prove not alwayes the truths friend but Sir I do not prejudge you Thirdly That if we cannot agree in this truth yet wee may love one another in the truth let this be written in letters of gold upon the foreheads of all the Saints HOLINES TO THE LORD AND LOVE TO THE BRETHREN Faith and Love are the golden pillars supporting the hearts of the
cattle thereof with the edge of the sword and that they should gather all the spoyle thereof into the midst of the streets thereof and should burn with fire the city and all the spoyle thereof every whit and that it should be an heap for ever and that it should be never built again vers 16. But this because it is circumstantiall I will not insist upon Now how far the morall equity of this law may extend in other cases I will not now dispute because whether it reach further or not no way concernes the law fulnesse of Congregationall Churches Secondly as for your instancing Calvin and the Churches of Geneva's burning a blasphemer and grounding their act upon the morall equity of that law spoken of Lev. 24.16 I shall say nothing but referre you to what Calvin hath written of it a Tract entituled Explicatio perfidiae Valentin Gentilis and to Gods 〈…〉 of it one day in the sight of heaven and earth it is notoriously evident to be meant of a prophane wilfull wicked blasphemer and curser of God if that Heretique were such as Galvin endevours to shew Explicat perfidiae Valent. Gentil hee is condemned in the very Text but it is not meant of one that through ignorance misconceiveth of God either in respect of his Attributes or in respect of the Trinity and surely if such kinde of mistakings should not be atoned but by such sacrifices we should have hot work amongst Christians yea and with such sacrifices God would be pleased after the manner as he would be pleased with the sacrificing of the fruit of our body for the sin of our souls yea for any thing that I know and they that shal deal so with men for such mistakes in such things I think are in a great error as well as the mistaken themselves and my reason is because men have been in many places but meanly instructed and educated in the right understanding therof but oftentimes notions of the deepest cognizance are handed over unto men from father to father in a traditionall manner without a cleer debating evincing and confirming the truth thereof and libertie given to declare ones doubts herein insomuch that meeting with a deceiver many are so soon led away with his errour which is one great cause of the so many wofull divisions and errors that are now amongst us and by the way this indeed would be a businesse worthy the endeavours of our godly and learned men of our age to take pains in businesses of this nature viz. the great things of the Law and Gospel of God to establish men in the right understanding of the grounds of their Religion to the rectifying of their judgements and the reformation of their lives and conversation and not thus unhappily alwayes to wrangle about things of more inferiour consideration Thirdly suppose that Law Deut. 13. and that also Levit. 24.16 be morall what is this to the businesse in hand Mr. Goodwin in his Theomachia nor elsewhere that I know of did ever plead for the toleration either of such a false Prophet spoken of Deut. 13. or such a blasphemer spoken of Levit. 24.16 And your self brings in Mr. Cotton and Mr. Thomas Goodwin men of the same Way and opinion with Mr. Goodwin in matters of Church-government to clear the Independent party from any such opinion which notwithstanding is insinuated into mens thoughts to be their darling when alas it is nothing so and therefore why are they charged herewith Surely want of love in the accusers and not guilt in the accused is the ground of their accusation But the Question is about the Magistrates compelling men even in matters of a difficult and hard finding out the minde of God therein and which indeed oftentimes is out of the cognizance and cleer knowledge of the very Magistrate himself But can this follow the Lord commanded a false Prophet that turneth away people from the Lord to be put to death Deut. 13. Will it therefore follow that that Prophet that shall teach any thing at all contrary to the supposed and disputable minde of God that he also must be dealt withall after such a manner is there not great difference between mens pleading for this and that kinde of government of the Churches of Christ and the turning away men from the faith of Christ do you not all confesse that the Independent men are holy godly learned men and usefull unto the begetting unto and building men up in the knowledge of Jesus Christ and doth not God seal unto their Ministry as well as unto any others Ministry And so for the other Text Levit. 24.16 A blasphemer must be stoned to death will it therefore follow that an Independent must not be suffered to live in a Christian Commonwealth surely this conclusion never grew on that Scripture nor in any other that I have yet seen You say That any errour though not fundamentall if it be wilfully held and taught against instructions and admonitions especially if it make Sects and Factions let them be never so conscionable in their Way professe never so much of God in them the Magistrate may and ought to punish them according to nature of their errours c. Answ 1. It is not sufficient a point be cleared but that it be cleared to the persons wee would perswade else they are to be born with till that be done as appeares in the weaker Jewes about ceremonies and some of the Corinthians about the resurrection 2. It is confest that obstinacy and wilfulnesse and that after instructions admonitions is justly punishable by the Magistrate where ever it be found but Quid inde where will you fasten this obstinacie and wilfulnesse that you may bring your supposition to the businesse in hand upon the Independent May they not as well recharge it upon them from whence it came have there not been instructions and admonitions on both fides and is not satisfaction as far off from many godly and learned men it the one as in the other Must nomen multitudinis determine the businesse No certainly your self hath proposed a better rule and that is the making of Sects and Factions and for this quit you the one party the other quits it self As first for the making of Sects surely it is not the triall of doctrines before received but the receiving of doctrines if compelled by authority before the triall thereof that makes Sects it is not the mutuall binding of men together in the bond of love and the mutuall ingagements unto watch fulnesse instructions exhortations one unto another which the Apostle prescribes as means against mens being tossed up and down by every wind of doctrine Ephes 4.14.15 16. it is not these things I say that makes Sects but the want of these things it is true there are severall Sects that professe these Wayes so there are severall Sects that professe the Gospell and the Protestant Religion in so much that Father said The Devill was let loose when