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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A78447	The censures of the church revived. In the defence of a short paper published by the first classis within the province of Lancaster ... but since printed without their privity or consent, after it had been assaulted by some gentlemen and others within their bounds ... under the title of Ex-communicatio excommunicata, or a Censure of the presbyterian censures and proceedings, in the classis at Manchester. Wherein 1. The dangerousness of admitting moderate episcopacy is shewed. ... 6. The presbyterian government vindicated from severall aspersions cast upon it, ... In three full answers ... Together with a full narrative, of the occasion and grounds, of publishing in the congregations, the above mentioned short paper, and of the whole proceedings since, from first to last.	Harrison, John, 1613?-1670.; Allen, Isaac, 17th cent.	1659 (1659)	Wing C1669; Thomason E980_22; ESTC R207784	289,546	380

is proved from the grounds already layd For this Jurisdiction of theirs above Presbyters did not belong unto them by Divine Right we having proved that the Scripture makes a Bishop and a Presbyter to be both one And therefore the Parliament that by Law gave them their power might seeing just cause for it by Law take it away They had also just reason for to take it away in regard of the oppressiveness and burthensomness of it both to Ministers and People to this whole Church and Nation as hath been proved before And therefore what they herein did was justly yea piously and prudently done and for which the Church of God in this Land both Ministers and People do for the present and will for the future see great cause to bless God for many Generations And that they had the concurrence herein of a reverend and learned Assembly of Divines is clear from their Exhortation annexed to the Ordinance of Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament with Instructions for taking the League and Covenant in the Kingdome of England and Dominion of Wales In this Exhortation of the Assembly of Divines in answer to some Objections they apprehended might be made against the taking of the Covenant they thus express themselves If it be sayd for the extirpation of Prelacy to wit the whole Hierarchiall Government standing as yet by the known Laws of the Kingdome is new and unwarrantable This will appear to all impartiall understandings though new to be not onely warrantable but necessary if they consider to omit what some say that this Government was never formally established by any Laws of this Kingdome at all that the very life and soul thereof is already taken from it by an Act passed this present Parliament so as like Jezabels Carkass of which no more was left but the Skull the Feet and the Palmes of her hands nothing of Jurisdiction remains but what is precarious in them and voluntary in those who submit unto them That their whole Government is at best but a humane Constitution and such as is found and adjudged by both Houses of Parliament in which the Judgment of the whole Kingdome is involved and declared not onely very perjudicial to the civil State but a great hinderance also to the perfect reformation of Religion Yea who knoweth it not to be too much an Enemy thereunto and destructive to the power of Godliness and pure administration of the Ordinances of Christ which moved the well-affected almost throughout this Kingdome long since to petition this Parliament as hath been desired before in the reign of Queen Elizabeth and King James for a total abolition of the same And then a little after And as for these Clergy-men who pretend that they above all other cannot covenant to extirpate that Government because they have as they say taken a solemn Oath to obey the Bishops in licitis honestis they can tell if they please that they that have sworne Obedience to the Laws of the Land are not thereby prohibited from endeavouring by all lawfull means the abolition of those Laws when they prove inconvenient or mischievous And yet if there should any Oath be found into which any Ministers or others have entred not warranted by the Laws of God and the Land in this case they must teach themselves and others that such Oathes call for repentance not pertinacy in them Thus far the Assembly of Divines in their Exhortation for the taking the solemne League and Covenant and which we have thought requisite to transcribe that so it may appear how fully they concurred with the Parliament in what they did touching the abolition of Episcopacy as it doth also confirme by their Testimony severall things that have been mentioned by us wherein the Reader may perceive their concurrence in Judgment with us From all which it is clear that seeing Diocesan Bishops did but obtaine that Jurisdiction they exercised over Presbyters by the Law of the Land and Canon of the Church The Parliament finding this Government of Episcopacy to be very oppressive to this Church A great hinderance to the perfect Reformation of Religion and prejudiciall to the civill State they might both lawsully and laudably being therein also backed with the advice of a reverend and learned Synod take it away And hence it will follow that if the Ministers of this Land for severing themselves from the Bishops and with-drawing their Canonicall Obedience from them as some speake the Parliament according to the reverend Synod having before taken away from them all that Jurisdiction over Presbyters that did belong unto them must needs be accused of Schisme It is a good Schisme yea a blessed Schisme to use the words that Gerhard did defending the Protestants with-drawing from the Pope and the Church of Rome that they will be found to be guilty of The blot whereof as it is not to be much regarded so it is easily wiped off and as we think it is already done in the Eyes of all impartiall and unbyassed Readers by these Considerations which we have layd down We have onely one thing more to add which is the third generall Head we offer to the Reader here before we leave this first Argument with which you would perswade us to returne againe to our former Yoke of Bondag 3. For we offer it to the consideration of all impartiall men whether considering what hath been spoken touching the nature of Schisme in the generall and how lawfully and laudably the Parliament did abolish Episcopacy and how they passed by Ordinance the forme of Church-Government Anno 1648. establishing the Presbyterian in roome of the Episcopall and that how it was set up in this County by their Authority If they but observe what your actings have been and what your expressions are in your Papers they will not thereupon see just cause to impute Schisme taken in the worst part and as it is taken most usually unto you who have been so forward though without reason to fasten this blot upon us But we are sure during the prevalency of Episcopacy those that were not guilty of any such disturbance of the peace of the Church by any such boisterous Ventings of the Distempers of their Spirits as you are were counted and called by the Prelates Schismaticks And from which Aspersion though sundry of those being peaceable and godly however Non-conformists were free yet you being very unlike them are not thereby quit But we have now done with the first of those Arguments we promised to speak to particularly whereby you would perswade us to admit againe of Episcopacy and hope we have sayd to it that which is sufficient 2. We therefore now come to the second wherein you still rise higher for therein you insinuate a thing of a farre greater and more dangerous consequence if Episcopacy be not restored For you intimate that it is necessary That the Church of God may be continued amongst us from Age to Age to the

edifyingly and lastingly be effected that when all our undermining scorning and opposing enemies do hear and see these things they may be much cast down in their own eyes perceiving that this work hath been wrought of our God in whose arms of mercy and truth we leave you and the Cause we manage Manchester Jan. 11. 1658. Signed in the Name and by the appointment of the Class by John Harrison Moderator THE EPISTLE To the READER IT is no new thing that such workes as have been most eminently conducing to the glory of God and the Churches greatest wellfare have met with strong oppositions When the Adversaries of Judah and Benjamin heard that the Children of the captivity builded the Temple unto the Lord God of Israel they set themselves diverse waies to hinder and obstruct the worke When Sanballat and Tobiah and the Arabians and the Ammonites and the Ashdodites heard that the walls of Jerusalem were made up and that the breaches began to be stopped then they were very wroth and conspired all of them together to come and to fight against Jerusalem and to hinder it When Jesus Christ the eternall Son of God the brightness of his Fathers glory and express Image of his Person appeared in the world cloathed with our nature though he came about a worke of greatest consequence that ever was yet his enimies withstood and opposed his Kingdome Of this the Psalmist prophesied before it came to pass Psal 2. 1 2. Why did the Heathen rage and the people imagine a vaine thing The Kings of the Earth set themselves and the people take counsell together against the Lord and against his annointed saying Let us breake their bands asunder and cast away their cords from us And this the Church saw fulfilled who in their Prayer unto God applied unto the times wherein they lived what he by the mouth of his Servant David had foretold so long before saying For of a truth against thy holy Childe Jesus whom thou hast annointed both Herod and Pontius Pilate with the Gentiles and the people of Israel were gathered together for to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsell determined before to be done It would be here too long to go through the Books of the N. T. and tell what persecutions were raised against the Apostles of our Lord and Saviour for executing that Commission which he had given them when he commanded them to go teach all Nations or to go through the story of the Church and speak of the diverse kindes of tortures and torments which thousands of all rankes endured in the times of the ten Primitive persecutions under the Heathen Emperours to tell of the Martyrdome of Ignatius Polycarpus Justin Martyr Irenaeus Cyprian and many others glorious lights and worthy Confessors of the truth for no other reason but because they studied to advance Christs Gospell We will instance something in latter times When the Romish Synagogue having most abominably apostatiz'd both in Doctrine Worship Discipline and Governement Luther and other faithfull Servants of Christ did earnestly bend themselves to endeavour a reformation in Religion the Antichristian world was mad with fury To come yet a little nearer home When Religion was reformed in Scotland in Doctrine and Worship the Church of Christ there had many conflicts and the worke was long obstructed before the Governement and Discipline of Christ could be fully established amongst them as it is in fresh remembrance what troubles they passed through more lately in their contending against Episcopacy and the Ceremonies which had been introduced amongst them to the great prejudice of their Ancient Church governement and Discipline But here it may not be forgotten how when the Parliament of famous memory that was convened eighteen yeares agoe having taken into their pious consideration the condition of our own Church at home and judging that a further reformation in matters of Religion then had been made in the daies of Queen Elizabeth was necessary and setting upon that work as also the vindication of the liberties of this English Nation were forced to take up Armes for their own defence against that Partie that could not brooke the Reformation which they intended And to what an height that opposition grew in after time and with what difficulties they conflicted for many years together because they would not give up that cause they had undertaken to defend is so well known to even such as may be but strangers in our Israel that we may spare the pains of a full recitall But yet nothing of all this is to be wondered at Satan must needs be like himselfe and stir the more when he sees his Kingdome begin to shake And corruption will rage when it is crossed God also hath a wise hand in these oppositions not only thereby the more inflaming the zeal and brightning up other graces in his faithfull servants trying and exercising their faith and patience the purging and purifying and making them white but also getting himself the greater glory when his worke is carried on notwithstanding the greatest opposition of his and his Churches enemies And here we cannot but with all thankfullness to Almighty God take notice of this hand that was most eminently lifted up in the worke of Reformation begun by that late forementioned Parliament as there is cause why also we should to the honour and glory of his great Name and the praise of that Parliament unto the generations that may come hereafter acknowledg their unwearied pains courage and constancy in that worke Much was done yea very much by that illustrious and worthy Parliament By them the foundation of reformation was laid in the solemne League and Covenant which they not only took themselves but ordained should be solemnely taken in all places throughout the Kingdome of England and Dominion of Wales And for the better and more orderly taking thereof appointed and injoyned certain directions to be strictly followed And in pursuance of this League and Covenant engageing every one that tooke it in their severall places to indeavour the refomation of Religion in England and Ireland in Doctrine Worship Discipline and governement according to the word of God and the example of the best reformed Churches and to bring the Churches of God in the three Kingdomes to the nearest conjunction and uniformity of Religion Confession of Faith forme of Church Government Directory for worship and Catechizing After consultation had with the Reverend Pious and Learned Assembly of Divines called together to that purpose they judged it necessary that the Book of Common Prayer should be abolished and the Directory for the publick worship of God and in their Ordinance mentioned should be established and observed in all the Churches within this Land as appears by their Ordinance of January the 3. 1644. for that purpose By them Prelacy that is Church Government by Archbishops Bishops their Chancellors and Commissaries Deanes Deanes and Chapters Archdeacons and all other Ecclesiasticall

God in his Word for the information of the ignorant but in what way of Catechizing as is expressed in our Paper the ignorant in our Congregations who never offered themselves unto the Sacrament were most like to be brought to some measure of knowledge and which is not a matter of Doctrine but of Order onely Neither was it by us submitted to that Assembly whether the censures of the Church were the meanes appointed by Christ for the reforming of the scandalous But whether it might not be meet pro hic nunc and as the present case stood to apply the censures and so put in practice at this time that which in the General we were sufficiently assured from the word of Truth was the way for their reformation and with which we were both by God and Man intrusted to dispense unto those that were openly scandalous in our Congregations However they contented themselves to live in the want of the Lords Supper nor ever presented themselves to the Eldership to be admitted to it And this because meerly circumstantial as to the dispensing of the Censures at this time and to such Persons we think herein we owed the Provincial Assembly unto whose Authority we professe our selves to be subject so much respect and duty as to submit our apprehensions in a case of this nature which they had propounded unto us to be seriously weighed as they had done to the rest of the Classes within this Province unto their Judgement and to take their concurrent approval along with us before we proceeded to practise in a matter of this weight And yet we have declared before That however we are not so wavering and unsettled in matters of faith as to resolve our belief into the determination of Synods or Councils believing no more nor no otherwise then as they determine Yet that it is not out of the compasse of the authority of a Synod to examine try and authoritatively to censure Doctrines as well as matters of Discipline And we think how confident soever you may be of the soundnesse and orthodoxnesse of what in your Paper you propound in way of exception against any thing in ours you have not such clear and unquestionable grounds from Scripture for the same that you were to be accused of wavering or unsettledness if you had submitted the same to have been examined and tried by a Provincial Assembly and much lesse if you could have had the opportunity of submitting it to the Censure of a General Council But whereas mentioning our Provincial Assembly at Preston you call it a new termed Provincial Assembly If your meaning be that the terming it a Provincial Assembly instead of a Provincial Synod is a new term then this is but onely a Logomachia and not much to be insisted on Although we frequently call it a Provincial Synod as well as a Provincial Assembly But if your meaning be That it is a new termed Provincial Assembly at Preston Because Provinciall Synods or Assemblies have been held but lately at Preston we see not if Provincial Assemblies be warrantable and have been of ancient use in the Church that having been long in dis-use they began of late to be held at Preston that can justly incurre your censure But if the Antiquity of such Assemblies be that you question Then we referre you to what Doctor Bernard in the Book of his above quoted shews was the Judgement of Doctor Vsher who is acknowledged by all that knew him or are acquainted with his works to have been a great Antiquary however we alleadge him not that you should build your faith upon his Testimony and which we think may be sufficient to vindicate Provincial Assemblies in your thoughts from all suspition of novelty In that Book you have in the close of it proposals touching the Reduction of Episcopacy unto the form of Synodical Government received in the ancient Church And it thus begins By the Order of the Church of England all Presbyters are charged to administer the Doctrine and Sacraments and the Discipline of Christ as the Lord hath commanded and as this Realm hath received And that they might the better understand what the Lord hath commanded herein The exhortation of Paul to the Elders of Ephesus Acts 20. 28. is appointed to be read unto them at the time of their Ordination A little after it is aknowledged That Ignatius by Presbytery mentioned by Paul 1 Tim. 4. 14. did understand the Community of the rest of the Presbyters or Elders who then had a hand not onely in the delivery of the Doctrine and Sacraments but also in the administration of the Discipline of Christ And for further proof Tertullian is alleadged in his Generall Apologie for Christians Where he saith that in the Church are used exhortations chastisements and divine censure For Judgement is given with great advice as among those who are certain they are in the sight of God And it is the chiefest foreshewing of the Judgement to come if any man have so offended that he be banished from the Communion of Prayer and of the Assembly and of all holy Fellowship The Presidents that bear rule therein are certain approved Elders who have obtained this honour not by reward but by good report There also is further shewed That in matters of Ecclesiastical judicature Cornelius Bishop of Rome used the received form of gathering together the Presbytery And that Cyprian sufficiently declares of what Persons that consisted When he wisheth him to read his Letter to the flourishing Clergy which there did preside or rule with him And further That in the fourth Council of Carthage it was concluded That the Bishop might hear no mans cause without the presence of the Clergy And that otherwise the Bishops sentence should be void unlesse it were confirmed by the Clergy And yet further That this is found inserted into the Canons of Egbert who was Archbishop of York in the Saxon times and afterwards into the body of the Canon law it self It is here also acknowledged That in our Church this kind of Presbyterian Government hath been much disused Yet that it did professe that every Pastor hath a right to rule the Church from whence also the name of Rector was at first given to him and administer the Discipline of Christ as well as to dispense the Doctrine and Sacraments c. By all which it is acknowledged and also proved That the form of Government by the united suffrages of the Clergy is ancient and which is there in express termes asse●ted as it might be demonstrated by many more Testimonies but that we conceive these already mentioned are sufficient and being alleadged by the aforementioned Author As also evidencing what his own Judgement was in this point may be more likely to sway with you if in that there should be a dissent betwixt you and us then any thing that we could our selves produce But in this reduction of Episcopacy to the form of Synodical Government

yet proved or can make good but we have not leasure at present to follow you further then our way lies and therefore come to the matter in hand The Animadversions of the first Class within the Province of Lancaster on this paper 1. FIrst There was no reason why though our answer was large which you complain of seeing it was in order to and necessary for your satisfaction that should hinder your acknowledgement of our civillity towards you especially considering those sharp reflections on us and on our Government in your first paper which in your second you do not deny and which ministred unto us occasion of provocation but we were resolved not to answer you in your own kind as through the grace of God we hope though we must deal faithfully with you we shall keep our selves still from returning railing for railing notwithstanding in this paper you deal farre more uncivilly and unchristianly with us as the Reader will perceive Secondly But whereas you acknowledge our civillity only so farre as it related unto you we cannot see any reason for this restriction we having not dealt uncivilly with any that we had occasion to mention or quote in our answer Thirdly Neither did we give any occasion by the answer we gave you to your second paper to conceive that we intended not an amicable union and composure of differences according to our profession of our cordial and hearty desires although we must needs confess whatever your hopes were we did not apprehend any great likelyhood of a closure with you or that you had reason so to conceive upon the termes you propounded in your second paper as we have said already in our answer to it except you thought we might be courted out of our principles upon your earnest entreaty without any grounds and reasons at all Fourthly We cannot but wonder that you should say with any qualification that you condiscend to come to our terms except it be as it were to come to our termes to propound in order unto peace What in that very place where we profess our selves so willing and desirous of union we had expresly cautioned against as being things we could not in conscience yeeld unto But when you speak of your condescension we cannot but thereby conceive your meaning to be this that if you grant preaching Presbyters any power in Ecclesiastical matters and to have decisive votes in Synods where the Bishops are to be the superintendents and perpetual moderatours according to the proposals of Dr. Vsher you think you condiscend very farre And upon this and other grounds we have cause to fear if the ruling Elders were removed and you should come to be censured by the preaching Presbyters your exceptions then would be as much against them in such a case as against the ruling Elders now and that then you would cry up the Bishops as having the solitary power of jurisdiction and that it belonged not to other Ministers to meddle therein at all Fifthly When mentioning our professions cordially to desire peace which you will have to be but a pretending to it only you say Oh that there had been such a heart in us We must needs tell you that we can approve our hearts to him that is the searcher of them that there was then and is still a cordial desire of peace and union with all that are truly godly and orthodox throughout the Land however differing from us in some points touching Discipline and Government and do heartily wish that you closed with us in those desires as cordially and heartily as we do But we hereby perceive that except we have an heart for Episcopacy condescended by you for the present to be moderated and to throw out the ruling Elders even to the forcing of our consciences against the Scriptures we urged in our answer for the divine right of their office and against the Scriptural arguments thence urged to which we referred you though by you sleighted and against the reasons also we urged in our answer where we cautioned against moderate Episcopacy never so much as attempted to be answered by you you judge us to have no hearts for peace Sixthly Whereas you say our discourse concerning the civill sanction of our Presbyterian Government which produced the authority that awarranted all that was in that paper we published in our several Congregations and whatever we have acted in the exercise of that Government from the first to the last since it was set up was needless we leave it to the Reader to judge of when he shall consider that in your first paper you told us of our making Laws and Edicts and publishing them openly in the Church for all to obey upon pain of Excommunication contrary to the Laws in force and that it concerned us to look unto it whether we had not run our selves into a praemunire Seventhly But it seems you count that discourse also tedious though it was necessary both for our own vindincation and to give you full and particular satisfaction touching the rules prescribed unto us in the forme of Church-Government to walk by besides that this fair manner of dealing with you in bringing to your hand what we judged you might never have enquired after gave you the opportunity to have excepted against us for transgressing our rule if you had any thing to have alleadged against us in that respect But perhaps the mentioning of any Ordinances of Parliament and rules therein expressed for the Presbyterian Government was that which was tedious to you and which we have some reason for to think and therefore afterward you endeavour though you performe not what you undertake to take them all away and utterly to nullifie all Ordinances of Parliament whatsoever Eightly You judge also that we quickly forget our selves when we said in our answer our leisure would not permit us to spend time about impertinencies and yet presently fall upon alleadging of sundry Orders and Ordinances of Parliament but these were not produced by us to prove that the Presbyterian Government was established by the Law of the Land but to give you some account how the setting up of the Presbyterian Government in this County the dividing it into several Classes the making those Classes into a Province and appointing this Class to be the first was all done by Authority of Parliament this being the inference that we made from our recital of the Orders and Ordinances of Parliament that were mentioned in our answer and which was occasioned by your selves who having intituled us in your first paper The first Class at Manchester within the Province of Lancaster then presently added Give us leave to salute you in your own terms We judged you might be ignorant of the particular Orders and Ordinances touching what concerned this Province of Lancaster and this Class in particular in the particulars above-mentioned though you might have seen some Ordinances in the general for the Presbyterian Government and which

lawfull authority there can be no perjury in such Presbyters as now disown it and joyn with other of their Brethren in the ordination of Presbyters without the concurrence of any Diocesan Bishop and which is the case here spoken to 2 But every intelligent Reader will readily discern how the Parliament is also wounded through our sides for if we be guilty of perjury for disowning Prelacy it is easie for to gather what apprehensions you must needs hereupon have of the Parliament that by their authority took it away But we think we have said that which is sufficient to rowl away the reproach that is cast either on them or our selves in this respect and therefore shall forbear to add any more We therefore now come to the second thing you here charge us with which is pertinacy but why should we be charged with this For no other reason that we can imagine but because we cannot force our consciences to admit of Episcopacy again which the Parliament upon many weighry and sound considerations hath removed and of the necessity whereof you never went about to convince us either from Scripture or sound reason But we do not question but all sober Readers will here see cause to censure you for great uncharitableness laying such heavy things to our charge for which you have not the least shew of proof as we we do also believe that what you count pertinacy they will judg to be constancy in us in sticking close to our sound and good principles that we must not forgoe on so easie termes as you would have us And however you would here make Dr. Usher to patronize you because he confesseth the ordination by Presbyters to be valid where Bishops can not be had so in case of necessity yet he hath not a word touching the imputation either of perjury or obstinacy to such Presbyters as have severed themselves from the Bishops as he was of a farre other spirit then to have been so censorious 8. As touching Ae rius of whom you say that he was most justly condemned for heresie for holding a parity amongst Church-officers we well know that this is commonly said by some Episcopal men from whom we judge you received it but we also know that it hath been as often answered by such as were Antiprelatical Mr. Banes in his Diocesans triall hath spoken to it satisfactorily Dr. Whitaker saith in answer to Campians tenth reason pag. 241. of the second Edition in Octavo Cum Aërio Hieronymus de Presbyteris omnino sensi● illos enim jure divino Episcopis aequales esse statuit i. e. With Aërius Hierome did conceive altogether the same thing concerning Presbyters for he determined that by divine right they were equall unto Bishops And because Hierome is here said by Dr. Whitaker to be of the same opinion in this point with Ae rius we shall give you and the Reader an account thereof from Hierome himself His words in his Commentary upon the Epistle to Titus making the same inference from the words of the Apostle Chap. 1. Ver. 5 6 7. that in our answer to your second Paper we have done are these Idem est ergo Presbyter qui Episcopus antequamdiaboli instinctu studia in Religione fierent diceretur in populis ego sum Pauli ego Apollo ego autem Cephae communi Presbyterorum consilio Ecclesiae gubernabantur And then a little after he saith Putet aliquis non Scripturarum sed nostram esse sententiam Episcopum Presbyterum unum esse relegat Apostoli ad Phillippenses verba dicentis Paulus Timotheus servi Jesu Christi omnibus sanc●is in Christo Jesu qui sunt Phillippis cum Episcopis Diaconis gratia vobis pax reliqua Phillipi una est urbs Macedoniae certe in u●â civitate plures ut nuncupantur Episcopi esse non poterant Sed quia eosdem Episcopos illo tempore quos Prebyteros appellabant propterea indifferenter de Episcopis quasi de Presbyteris est loquutus Whence its clear that he did not only hold Bishops and Presbyters to be all one but proves this from the Scriptures and then after addes other Texts to prove the same thing expounding those Texts he quotes in the same manner as we have done in our answer to your second Paper More might be urged out of Hierome to shew that he was of the same opinion with Aërius as touching the parity of a Bishop and a Presbyter and therefore if this opinion was an heresie in Aërius Hierome according to your assertion should have been also most justly condemned for heresie But if you would but take the pains to peruse David Blondellus he might perhaps satisfie you that Hierome was not to be accused of heresie for this opinion he apologizing for him herein and proving at large from the concurrent testimony of the Fathers that he held not in this any singular opinion but what was generally received amongst the ancients His Treatise is a large Quarto and the main subject of it is to apologize for Hierome in this respect as the title of his Book doth also shew But it is well observed by the Provincial Assembly of London that Ae rius was never condemned by any Council of heresie for holding the identity of a Bishop and a Presbyter but that on the contrary Concil Aquisgranens sub Ludovieo pio Imperatore 10. anno 816. hath approved it for true Divinity out of the Scriptures that Bishops and Presbyters are equals bringing the same Texts that Ae rius doth They also well observe that he is called an Heretique by Epiphanius and Augu●tine but this was especially if not only because he was an Arrian and that the same Authours condemne Aërius as much for reprehending and censuring pr●ying and offering for the dead and the performing good works for the benefit of the dead as for holding Bishops and Presbyters to be all one and which opinion as it is commonly thought they condemned in Ae rius But will you say that Ae rius was most justly condemned for heresie for those opinions also But this for Ae rius his opinion touching a parity amongst Church-Officers may be sufficient 9. Concerning your submission to the judgement of Councils you have indeed declared your selves before and we have shewed you have submitted therein too farre as you will further declare your selves to this purpose hereafter But as touching our selves you shall not find that we vary from what we have professed to be our judgement touching this matter either in our first answer or in what we have said in answer to the second Section of this Paper and whereunto we referre the Reader that by comparing of what we say there and what you charge us with here or hereafter touching our not holding to what we have professed he may the better judge how groundlesly you herein do accuse us 10. But you will still have our Provincial Assembly at Preston a

expensis diversum sensum non malé quadrare fateor ut sit nomen officij Ceremoniam pro ipso ●actu posuit and which is the sense that in his Institutions he doth adhere to But Calvin must not have leave from you first to alledg one interpretation as that which in his judgement was probably true and so to approve of it and afterward upon consideration of all things he thought were to be weighed to conclude with another if he do and thus deliver himself in his Comment u●on this place he is flat opposite to himself in his institutions as you judge though we believe all equall judges will be more candid toward him then to approve of your censure of him in this particular 3. But it may be this of Calvin was mentioned by you that thence you might take the occasion to have a fling at us For after you had aspersed him you say you fear you shall find us as wavering and unsetled in our judgments when it comes to scanning But wherein For that we said divers of the Fathers did interpret this word Presbytery as we did and as we said had been declared before That which in our answer we said had been declared before referd to what we had before sc in the latter part of the third Section of it alledged out of Dr. Usher in his reduction of Episcopacy unto the forme of Synodicall Government where he proves from several of the Fathers and from the 4th Council of Carthage that Presbyters had a hand in the administration of the Discipline of Christ We produced him alledging the Fathers you here make mention of and you your selves even now alledged many more interpreting the word Presbytery used 1 Tim. 4. in the same sense that we concurre with and which concurrent sense of ours with the Fathers we declared in that short Parenthesis on which you do thus enlarge when we said the Fathers did understand the word Presbytery as we do But now what is it that you lay to our charge or what is it that is our offence with which you here upbraid us You tell us it is because we said the Fathers understood the word Presbytery as we did and because we produce Dr. Usher speaking in this sense But as to the preaching Presbyters and which was all that in the place above-mentioned in our answer we alleadged him to bring in the Fathers to speak for is not this clear and manifest to him that will either peruse what he hath or what you acknowledg we alleadge out of him or shall but consider what Fathers you your selves do say do expound 1 Tim. 4. touching the company of Presbyters i. e. the Bishops that lay on hands And therefore if you press us herein to stand to their sense and interpretation by us alleadged out of Dr. Usher we shall not run back nor have any cause to be ashamed when we assert that their interpretation of the word Presbytery is the same with ours Yes say you we may be ashamed to say so For that Presbytery which we say is established by Ordinance of Parliament and is that which we stand for and which when we speak of the Government of the Church by Presbytery do mean by that word is not the same with that Presbytery which the Fathers understand And this we suppose you say because you judge the Fathers do not comprehend the ruling Elders under the word Presbytery mentioned 1 Tim. 4. To which we answer that where we alledged the Fathers out of Dr. Usher we never produced them for any such purpose as to prove that the ruling Elders were comprehended under the word Presbytery 1 Tim. 4. only we thought to gain upon you by steps and from what Dr. Usher alledged the Fathers for thence to inferre the antiquity of Assemblies where the Pastors of the Church are members have decisive votes and a right to rule and unto which if you assented we judged then we were so farre agreed and which was the reason why mentioning his proposal of Assemblies we said they were the same in substance with ours and for the reason of which expression we have in this our answer to this your Paper given a full account before and to prevent repetition do referre the Reader thither however the ruling Elders be admitted into them as members although we desire the Reader to take notice and do mind you thereof that we have shewed that it is no novel thing for to admit such to have decisive votes in Synods and Councils that were never ordained to preach and administer the Sacraments and that we have alleadged testimonies of the Ancients for to prove the being of such an Officer as the ruling Elder in their times and consequently that he was a member of the Ecclesiastical consistory But we have thus shewed for what sense of the word Presbytery we alleadged the Fathers out of Dr. Usher as it will be manifest to him that will peruse our answer in that place where we cite them And now we leave it to the Reader to judge whether we have for this merited such language from you as here you give us Do we confidently assert that the Fathers give the same interpretation of the word Presbytery as we d● and yet stand to nothing Do we not still own that very sense of the word Presbytery 1 Tim. 4. which you your selves produce sundry of them to give Where then is our wavering or unsetledness in our judgements that you charge us with Or in what do we run back eating our own words as you here say we do But this is but a little matter in comparison for you will have us hereupon to have two hearts and not one ferehead But what were we in your second Paper your dear friends nay more brethren dearly beloved to you in the Lord and are we now become monsters in Christianity having two hearts and have not that common shamefastness that might be found even amongst Heathens having not one forehead We leave it to the Reader to judge how cordial you were in those sugared words you gave us there when you do here thus vent the rancor that was in your hearts and that upon so sseight an occasion doubtless the answer we gave in words to your second Paper could give no just cause for such unchristian and uncivil censures to pass upon us neither was there any thing in that part of our answer to your first Paper which your selves acknowledge was full of civillity towards you unto which you here reply that gave any such occasion the Fathers we quoted out of Dr. Usher being for such a sense of the word Presbytery as we cited them for But your uncharitableness in passing such hard censures upon us is not all for you do also here charge us with sundry manifest untruths For we never quoted Dr. Usher who in his proposals is expresly for moderate Episcopacy which we as expresly cautioned against as our own man whom we declined

Church government or our own practice is not at all to your purpose neither doth it if it had been as you represented which yet we have shewed you is otherwise prove what it concerned you to have made good viz. That those that present not themselves to the Eldership upon the Exhortation given by the Minister to that purpose were according to our Order to have had their names published in the Congregations and they warned before all to reforme Which yet was your high charge and accusation of us but wanting support of it self falls to the ground And hereupon it is manifest that it is not we that go about to mince the matter or that seek to colour over our actions with a seeming deniall of all or to evade what we still practice but are ashamed to own as you here without the least shadow of proofe affirme of us neither is there any thing to be found in our Answer that hath any tendency this way we there professedly defending and justifying all that we practised But it is you who having laid grevious things to our charge which you could not prove would now represent us as if we did as you say that so you might seem to say some thing though when it comes to be scan'd it is nothing but a plaine discovery that though your accusation was loud and strong your proof is low weake and empty and such as vanisheth into Aire For all the descants as you call them that we made on either Nounes or Pronouns was to shew that the Relative they in the fifth Order could not refer to the Catechized persons who being found knowing and blamelesse by the Minister though they should not according to the Exhortation of the Minister present themselves to the Eldership yet were not to have had their names published to the Congregation nor for that warned before all to reforme and which because you saw you could not make out do therefore having changed the state of the Question fall upon our practice and tell us we mince it or are ashamed of it though this be also untrue and that which you do not prove against us neither and so are doubly guilty in this one particular of false accusation But when to cleare up the sense of our words we had told you in our Answer that the Relative did often referre to the remoter and not the nearer Antecedent and must do so when the matter spoken of did require it and this you here call a weake senselesse and unheard of descanting on Nounes and Pronouns You do hereby proclaime your own ignorance the like descanting if it must be so called on Nounes and Pronounes being observed by the Learned as we have shewed you to open and expound the sense of Scripture and which you your selves must acknowledge or you shall never be able rightly in some places to understand them as from the instances we have given is manifest And you do hereby further discover your impotent passions else you would not have given us such language as we here as but too often throughout your Paper meet with As touching what follows to the conclusion we have already said what is sufficient for our own vindication We have spoken out and owned what is in truth our pactice and which we have told you is to admit of none to the Sacrament but by the juridicall act of the Eldership this being that which is requisite and necessary to be observed as we have told you or the Governement is indangered to be quite overthrown And yet none are debarred by us from the Sacrament that are knowing and blamelesse because they present not themselves before the Eldership which is that you would gladly fasten upon us though herein you labour in vain but the ignorant and scandalous only Although we here must minde you of what we told you even now viz. That this is not the Question that is now disputed betwixt us Neither do vve need upon any practice of ours or any other account whatsoever wave the Ordinance we act upon as repealed and vvhich however you do yet we must not nor be perswaded thereunto either by your threats or intreaties having proved sufficiently that this Ordinance is of force and strength to this very day that and what we have heretofore said concerning the civill sanction of our Governement is so much to the purpose that it makes this forth And so to conclude we do not question but whatever your conceits may be to the contrary others will determine that your high charge having not been supported by reason is of no vveight to the depressing of us much lesse the Presbyterian governement and vvhich though vve had fallen not having been able to have vindicated our selves from vvhat vve had been accused vvith vvould notwithstanding have been far above any depression of yours However vve believe it vvas the summa totalis and the u●shot of all that you chiefly aimed at in all your Papers though how you have therein acquitted your selves will be manifest enough to the attentive and impartiall Reader vvho vvill easily discerne by vvhat hath been said that you have no otherwise indeavoured to depresse this Governement but by aspersing it vvhen you vvanted Arguments vvherewith to oppose it by taking no notice of the reasons vve urged vvhen you could not Answer them and passing over many things in our Answer in silence saying nothing to them by betaking your selves to the Popish principles and practices refusing to have the controversie touching Church governement determined by the Scriptures and railing on us as Scripturists for contending to have the matter tried by this Judge by asserting severall manifest untruths and sometimes palpably contradictng your selves by falsifying and abusing approved Protestant Authors vvho favoured not the cause you plead for and aspersing others by perverting our words and mangling them vvhen you had a minde to render us absurd by many uncivill and unchristian expressions which you have used toward us to the reproaching of us by your severall bitter and reasonless scoffes jeeres uncharitable censures and slanders laying to our charge severall things for which you bring no proof and venting your distempered passions against us only because we are for Presbyterian and against Episcopall governement and to summe up all in a word by hard words but soft and weake Arguments But all wise and sober persons will conclude you fighting against us and the Presbyterians governement with such weapons as these tooke not the way either to depress it or us but have greatly hereby depressed your selves and which we mind you of that you seeing your manifold errours herein might be humbled for them and prevent that by unfeigned repentance which otherwise you have cause to feare and whereof we have all along in faithfullness warned you as there hath been occasion offered throughout your Papers though thereby what is now presented to the publick view is swelled to the greater bulke If this our pains that hath