is vnlawfull But the congregation hath neede of vs Ergo vnlawfull Syllogizari non est exparticulari Remonstrance To be absent from one man or one particular congregation is not vnlawfull his employment being otherwise beneficiall I might reason as well thus Absurdity of the demonstrator To be absent from those who haue neede of vs is vnlawfull The church of Ephesus had neede of Timothie the church of Galathians and Corinthians neede of Paul Ergo Pauls and Timothies absence were both vnlawfull Or after this wise To be absent from those that haue neede of vs is vnlawfull The Paynims and heathen in America terra australi where no church is haue neede of vs Ergo our absence is vtterly vnlawfull This fallacion is secundum quid ad simpliciter The 15. Demonstration Demonstration If the priests might not dwell farre from the temple then the ministers may not be non Resident But the first is true 1. Chron. 28. ca. 13. v. ergo the second I may argue as substantially and as well Remonstrance If the Exchequer men must of conueniencie dwell neere to Westminster hall and the singing men of Paules neere there abouts ergo they must neuer goe out of the place The place which you alledge is Dauid gaue to Salomon a paterne of the courts of the house of God and for all the chambers round about which serue for the treasures of the house of God and for the treasures of the dedicate things and for the courses of the Priestes and Leuites Now the later may expound the former ergo the Priestes and Leuites waited in their courses It proueth not an indefatigable or continuall howrely attendance You deale hardly to make them de genere affixorum or to naile them to a place The 16. Demonstration or Allegation Let no Clerke be placed in two charges for it is filthie merchandize Demonstra Concil Nic. c. 15. c. No man can serue two Maisters Let euery one tarrie in the place where he is called The olde prouerbe is now verefied 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Remonstrance Like egge like birde like master like man T.C. the maister misalledged the Councell and so doeth V. D. his yeoman See the 247. pag. of the Defense of the answere to the Admonition These men to euict their purpose will not refuse omne genus testium etiam ab inferis viz. the most blasphemous corrupt and depraued the 2. Councell of Nice which to bleare mens eies withall they call simply the Councell of Nice Out of this Councell they may proue adoration of reliques inuocation of Saintes worshipping of images with the same worship that the Trinitie is worshipped if they wil take farder serious counsel in the cause I may say of them as Seneca said of a wanton Poet Non ignorauit sed amauit sua vitia they cannot be ignorant but they loue their owne faults and errors Let no man c. in the ende of the canon in Regia ciuitate be placed in moe great cities then one In other towneships and villages it is lawful and so Gratian expoundeth Caus 20. quaest 1. Clericus and the Councell of Chalcedon and the glose A man may be intituled to two Churches if they be poore and with dispensation or by way of trust or Commendam As for allegation 6. Matth. No man can serue two maisters that is contrarie Masters God and Beliall God and Mammon For the other place 1. Cor. 7. Let a man tary in his vocation that is his kinde of vocation not in the locall place These fallacies are fallacies figurae dictionis This therefore must be the meaning of the place Let no man c. without abilitie to discharge them both be placed in two charges or let no man make a filthie lucre of his charge The 17. Allegation or Demonstration Demonstration Damasus compareth them that set ouer their charges to harlots that put out their children Concil com 2. c. to nurse to giue themselues to more pleasure This man heard T. C. say it was in the second Tome of Councels Remonstrance which is in the first See what it is to take euery thing by heare-say Damasus in his epistle speaketh against Chorepiscopi which occupied the place of their bishoprikes some part of their office as consecration of Priestes Deacons and Virgines imposition of handes dedication of Churches who were both insolent themselues and made others their bishops liue in pleasure and idlenes This concerneth nothing honest learned and sufficient Curates If you thinke your owne wife or any other onely for putting out their children within the compasse of an harlot you are within the compasse of a iealous headed foole It were more reasonable to iudge her so if she were with childe before you maried her The 18. Allegation or Demonstration It was ordeined that none Demonstra either Bishop or Elders should goe from Citie to Citie Theodor. l. 1. c. 9. The place is in the Ecclesiasticall historie of Theodoret Remonstrance albeit you quote it not Theodoret speaketh of Eusebius Nicomediensis an Arrian who leauing Nicomedia Ad sedem Constantinopolitani Episcopatus per ambitum arrepsit idque contra Ecclesiae canonem qui vetat tum Episcopos tum Presbyteros de vnius ciuitatis sede ad alterius sedem transferre who translated himselfe by sute and ambition from one Church to another for as it is in the same Theodoret Cùm ei Beryensis Ecclesiae administratio concredita esset inde ad Nicomediae Episcopatum gerendum se transtulit where he was Gouernour of the Church of Beria he translated him selfe to Nicomedia and from the bishoprike thereof to Constantinople leaping from Church to Church by sute after the promotion and contrarie to the Canon of the Church which forbiddeth ambition and sute both vnto Priestes and Bishops and translation from one See to another of their owne heades without a cause allowed by their Superiors according to the seuerall orders of euery Church The 1. Obiection of the Demonstrator Two parishes may be vnited ergo one may haue charge of them Demonstrator when they are two or diuided Answere of the Demonstrator One sheepheard may keepe one flocke being great but not two flockes being litle going in diuerse pastures That is falsly answered Remonstrance with replie for Iacob in the 30. Genes kept Labans and his owne flocke of sheepe and put them in diuerse pastures As for the obiection when they are diuided his paines are the greater he must repaire to them but in the vnion whatsoeuer is the distance they must repaire to him except it be otherwise especially prouided The 2. Obiection of the Demonstrator Parishes were diuided by men by the Monke Denys Pope of Rome Demonstration Answere of the Demonstrator That is vntrue for the Apostles in the Actes diuided the Churches into Congregations Nay that is more vntrue This is as the Schoolemen speake 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉
is simply forbidden to all Christians both in ciuill ecclesiastical gouernment Now to apply these more neerely by the authoritie the bishops haue in this realme a matter so impugned by these men It cannot be resembled vnto oeconomicall albeit in some sence a bishop is called the father of those in his charge and the husband of that church whereof he is bishop that for two causes First in that his authoritie is not contained in the straites of one familie but reacheth ouer many seuerall families and congregations of people Another for that the bishops authoritie is tied by lawes not only what not to do but he is appointed also what to doe whereas oeconomicall authoritie hath no publike lawes positiue commaunding a man howe to gouerne his familie but onely negatiue what they may not doe in that gouernment as not to wound nor kill wife childe nor seruant c. As for supreme authoritie whether Ciuill or Ecclesiasticall absolute or limited our bishops neither haue nor claime It is that which they cōdemne in the Pope by this place as well for that as successor of the Apostles he claimeth both swordes all earthly kingdomes to be his to dispose sinon actu saltem habitu as Bellarmin distinguisheth as for that in matters Ecclesiasticall he claimeth and vsurpeth not onely Seigneuriall but euen tyrannicall authoritie For he saith he may iudge all and be iudged by none may carry millions of soules to hell and none may say to him Domine curita facis Sir why doe you so may command Angels to carry and recarry soules at his pleasure may pardon sinnes past to come for so long or short a time as him listeth and in matters of Ecclesiastical liuings nay in all causes may doe what he list and therefore is iustly condemned by this place as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 one exercising a Lordly absolute and tyrannous authoritie There resteth then vnto bishops of this Realme none other but subordinate or delegated authoritie which they haue partly from God partly from the soueraigne christian Magistrate From God they haue either first to plant or else to gouerne and direct Churches already planted to ordeine ministers and deacons and likewise the vse of the keies either by loosing the penitent according to Gods worde or binding the impenitent which last is done by admonition reprehension suspension excōmunication and by anathematisme The three first of which censures are with vs euen in practise common to all ministers of the word so farre as suspension is taken for debarring from the sacramēt of the supper The last two though by all practise of antiquitie in purer times they were principally and especially attributed to bishops yet not so but that other ministers of the worde vnto which the keies are annexed may not vnlawfully herein concurre with them if the lawes of the Church for weightie causes doe not otherwise dispose which they haue done here in England as I take it by reason of the sundrie ciuill effects which excommunication and anathematisme by lawe doe worke and are such as without great inconuenience and confusion cannot be permitted to euery minister in his cure that haue but slender skil no direction of lawe in this behalfe none autentique seales to certifie of record nor temporalities to be seised for not performance of the Queenes writtes that lie in such cases as de cautione admittenda de excommunicato deliberando c. And these former be the pointes wherein bishops authoritie is from God and not of man but now from the soueraigne Prince by the mediating of lawes bishops haue set downe vnto them the places where the compasse of territorie howe farre the manner howe with other circumstances of executing both the former authorities and also their iurisdiction Likewise they haue assistance of their iurisdiction sundrie waies from the Prince and lawes for the sounder execution thereof and better bridling of offenders as to burne an Heretike to imprison a person obstinately remaining excommunicate aboue 40. daies with such like Lastly they haue the heads and matters wherein their iurisdiction is occupied by and from the Christian Magistrates authoritie in whome as supreme Gouernour all iurisdiction within her dominions aswell Ecclesiasticall as Ciuill by Gods and mans lawe is inuested Such matters in this Church of England so attributed to bishops are causes of titles of benefices matters of maintenance for Ministers vpholding of Churches and Churchyardes of matrimoniall contracts and diuorces testamentarie diffamatorie where there is breach of charitie and none action lieth thereupon at the Common lawe or lastly punishing of sundrie crimes termed Ecclesiasticall being such as are not at all punishable at the Common law or els are left by lawe to be punished by either authoritie And in this respect may this part of bishoply function not vntruely be saide to be deriued from the supreme Christian Magistrates authoritie and supremacie which they haue vnder God By which may appeare both the vndutifulnes of Popish Bishops and of the factious Consistorials the first whereof deriueth their iurisdictions Ecclesiasticall within all Christian kingdomes from the Pope and the other will needes deriue theirs immediately from God and that in larger manner and in moe matters then bishops in England may any way exercise for they of the faction attribute therein no more vnto soueraigne Princes but to be gouerned in that behalfe by them and to defende the exercise thereof by their temporall sworde whereas our bishops cannot make any newe Ecclesiasticall decrees without the Princes authoritie both precedent and subsequent and in the whole course of their function are tied strictly and precisely to obseruation of due course of lawe which if either negligently or wilfully they shall violate it is remediable by appellation the last resorte wherein is to the Soueraigne Prince her selfe who heareth and finally determineth it by her Iudges delegated So that by this discourse it plainely appeareth that our Bishops neyther clayme nor yet exercise any ciuill authoritie at all as Bishops that their authoritie Ecclesiasticall is but subordinate vnder God and the Prince moderated exactly both positiuely and priuatiuely by good lawes deriued for the moste parte from the Prince and reformable by her Not supreme not absolute not tyrannicall not Seigneuriall nor Lordely according to the Rulers luste And therefore no way touched or meant much lesse by these places condemned as the Demonstrators Assumption more boldely then eyther skillfully or truely importeth But out of these groundes thus wee reason and bende the nose of the Cannon against themselues If the bishops authoritie be condemned by these two places as they would inferre then is all greater and more absolute authoritie exercised by persons Ecclesiasticall much more to be condemned But your selues doe claime and exercise greater and more absolute authoritie then the bishops namely to haue your Consistoriall iurisdiction not deriued from the Princes authoritie but supreme vnder God and that in all
Demonstration it is either in respect of his excellencie aboue other men or the place whereof he is aboue other places But neither of these haue euer bene or hereafter can be ergo You might haue remembred the old rule Remonstrance that from insufficient enumeration of the parts or of the causes the argument doth not hold or this fallacie is of the consequent as saieth Aristotle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when you mistake the cause The lawfulnesse of his office is in regard of his superioritie grounded on the word of God and in respect of his authoritie wherewith he is put in trust by the prince and Parliament But I answere thus If the office of the seignorie be lawfull it is either in respect of the excellencie of the men or of the most illustrious and celebrated place not the first for an Artisan elder is as good and substantiall an elder as any Earle or honourable man and by their owne platforme he must sit cheeke by ioll by the noblest Erle or counseller of the land Neither the second for no place is better or worse vnto them who seeke for equalitie Non locus virum sed vir locum honestat The place giueth not credite to the man but the man to the place ergo the seignorie is not lawfull in respect of the man or place and consequently hath none authoritie or gouernment The 1. Allegation Caluin lib. 4. Institut cap. 11. sect 7. Demonstration Beza in the booke of diuorcements speaketh against iurisdiction of bishops and others substitute officers If you alleage new writers one for one Remonstrance we haue an Oliuer for a Rowland if you alleage two wee can produce twise so many Bullinger and Musculus Hemingius Gualter and Zanchus c. But our meaning is not to muster authorities or recite the names of authors Pauperis est numer are pecus Goe rather to the things then names Caluins wordes are against the papists Iurisdictionem suam spiritualem iactant Romanenses Hee alloweth in his institutions Patriarkes Archbishops and bishops in the primitiue Church Shew any impietie in the offices of ours more then in those Beza speaketh against their dealings in those causes that know more in such causes any one of them then 20. of his Assistants in Eldership but if you alleage the onely fathers and begetters of presbyteries for them we will set Ridley and Iewell for bishops as learned as these in all respects and as godly The 2. Allegation Peter Martyr vpon the 13. to the Romanes Demonstration speaketh agaynst ciuill Iurisdiction in Bishops and by the same reason condemneth it in their substitutes Peter Martyr speaketh not against any iurisdiction Remonstrance which is a furtherance but popish iurisdiction which is a hinderance to the Gospell But whatsoeuer Peter Martyr saith we say this to you Bishops in respect they are bishops in England haue no ciuill iurisdiction for the distinction of ciuill and ecclesiasticall matters is more priciselie and vpon greater penalties here retained then else-where in all Christendome If it bee said some matters they handle bee ciuill that are called ecclesiasticall wee aske whether oeconomicall matters bee not a part of ciuill wherein they are as husbandly nay niggardly as any and further demaund a rule out of Gods word of them that vrge this as a sinne whereby to know a specificall difference betweene ciuill and Ecclesiasticall causes They cannot say because some of those which Ecclesiasticall courtes here handle bee accounted else-where ciuill therefore they may not be here Ecclesiasticall for of the contrary some matters here mere ciuill are else-where holden Ecclesiasticall As for example in Geneua and Scotland they inflict censures on those which for ciuill enormious crimes the magistrat hath punished or pardoned as felons manslears such like and all their presbyteries euen that among the Englishmen at Middleborough vse to deale with qualifiyng of forfeitures of bonds and accounts betweene hard masters and their prentises and other such Chancerie matters much more therefore those may iustly be accounted ecclesiastical which the law ciuill magistrate do put ouer to ecclesiastical mē better thē those which being in truth mere ciuil are intruded vpō the presbyteries Causes beneficial viz. for titles and maintenance of Ministers causes matrimonial diffamatorie with breach of charitie where none action lieth in ciuill Courts punishment of sinnes not punishable by the ciuil Magistrate and of reparations of churches churchyards which are all the heads of matters that bishops may hādle sauing testamentarie you wil I hope allow to be Ecclesiastical As for testamentary causes euen at the common law of this land they haue bene alwaies made Ecclesiasticall both because that lawe hath litle direction in those causes but such as is borrowed from the ciuill and Ecclesiastical lawes and for that mens last wils at least were wont do conteine sundrie demises for Churches orphanes poore captiues and such like good vses whereof the Church had the fourth part and wherein Bishops are intended to be most carefull to minister right indifferently to all for performance of the deads will Any iurisdiction ciuill which Bishops or some Ecclesiasticall persons haue is not claimed by them as due to their functions but imposed by the Prince as vpon subiects seruiceable for the Realme and for a credite to their places as Counseller Ambassador Iustice of the Peace c. For seeing they are subiects freemen and citizens of the Common-wealth besides their ministerie of the Church I would knowe whether they owe not this dutie being imposed on them vnto the Common-wealth and their Prince But we shall not I trust neede to perswade much with these men for they are not so squemish of ciuill honor and function as they would then seeme whiles their malignant eies are onely fastened vpon Bishops For where they haue sway neither prince nor Magistrate shall proclaime feast or fast treate of league peace or warre with any Prince nor make any ordinance without their aduise * The example of the reuerend learned man they will haue Deputies of the Churches in Parliament when they haue shut out Bishops and they thrust their Elders and Ministers vpon Kings to sitte with their other Counsellors as was not long since practised Is any matter most ciuil euen almost of least moment determined at Geneua without Beza insomuch as when troubles increase he omitteth his readings and preachings sundry times Is he not of the counsell of 60. in that state was not Villiers Secretarie of estate to the Prince of Orenge and further if we may beleeue the Chaos de Politia ciuili ecclesiastica Lib. 3. which Law Cha. was so earnest to haue printed at Leyden ministers and persons Ecclesiasticall in that they are citizens may nay in respect they are wise learned ought to be of counsell of Princes in affaires ciuill of the Common-wealth and to giue especiall direction euen in setting vp and deposing of Princes
Episcopo suo nec Ecclesiasticam disciplinam cum fide quiete iuxta praecepta Domini continerent vt relictis Domini sacerdotibus contra Euangelicam disciplinam noua traditio sacrilegae institutionis exurgat Note whether these wordes of Cyprian concerne not our times Nowe it is cleare whence T. C. his faction ariseth howe it tooke rooting howe it is hardened He and his crue haue withdrawne certaine who of good zeale professe the name of Christ from the loue and obedience of their Superior or Pastor or Bishop and haue dangerously drawne them into contempt of Ecclesiasticall discipline to breake from the faith and allegeance of the Lordes precepts that by forsaking of the Lorde his Priestes contrarie to the Euangelicall discipline they might begin a newe platforme of sacrilegious institution of their own discipline Obserue last of all that Ecclesiasticall discipline Euangelicall discipline which S. Cyprian soundeth farre otherwise then the newe Tetrarchie of Doctors Pastors Elders and Deacons discipline for it is taken for the doctrine of Christ and his Apostles Yet here of by the way we gather that such as breake foorth from the Bishops gouernment and censures as our schismatikes doe with greatest contempt that may be doe offend against the commandements and the doctrine or discipline of the Gospell and therefore a superioritie of Bishops is a diuine institution by Cyprians iudgement who liued not very long after the Apostles times I might answere Allegare non est probare Allegation is no demonstration least of all of humane authoritie And all this may be granted and nothing gained to the cause Dominus Demonstrator doeth passe away in cloudes of generalitie and concludeth not the question So that in steede of 18. demonstrations there are 18. monsters some without head some without taile some without middle others without arme all without harme not able to affright the veriest foole that is with so much as a false feare of loosing the impregnable fort of the trueth of our cause * ⎠* CAPVT SECVNDVM IN the second chapter followe certaine Maximes of their own or certaine Oracles of one T. C. tanquam ex tripode which if you will not take vpon T.C. his credite you may take it vpon the credite of 20. letters or take vnto you the whole Alphabet to make demonstrations thereby The 1. Proposition No calling is lawfull but which is directly warranted out of the worde to him that executeth it Demonstration The 2. Proposition The name and office of an Archbishop is contrarie to the worde of God The 3. Proposition No man may be ordeined to an office vntill a place be voide as he is fit for Euery one of these propositions hath a speciall aime to the vsuall intended markes of a cauilling Sophister Remonstrance The 1. is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or meere trifling Aristot de reprehens Soph. as Aristotle saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Like as a Cuckow to sing alwaies one song as in the former Chapter the Demonstrator trifleth vp and downe The 2. is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a false or starke staring lie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to make a demonstration of a lie The 3. is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a meere Paradoxe which neuer any but of this newe fantasie said before The saying is A three twisted corde will not easily breake asunder but this thrise twisted cable knappeth asunder If the Demonstrator will onely propound we may lawfully returne these propositions home againe 1. No calling is lawfull but directly warranted to him that executeth it All lay Presbyteri or vnpreaching eldership with the authoritie they attribute vnto it is vnwarranted directly by Gods worde to them that doe execute it Ergo No such calling is lawfull 2. No name of Superioritie for order and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the Church is contrary to the worde The name and office of Archbyshop Archdeacon Deanes are such names and offices of Superioritie Ergo No names and offices of Archbyshop Archdeacon c. are contrary to the worde 3. Paul Barnabas Epaphroditus Andronicus Iunius and others were not forth with limited to a certaine place But Paul Barnabas Philip c. were ordeined Ministers Ergo Certaine were ordeined Ministers not limitted to a place The 1. Demonstration which is a reason of this 1. redoubted Proposition If Iohn were constrained to prooue his ministerie out of the worde when the Priestes accused him Demonstration Then there is no lawfull calling but warranted in the worde but he prooued his calling Ergo no calling lawfull but which is warranted in the worde To the Antecedent This fallacie is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the consequent Remonstrance The sequele of the Antecedent is to be denyed which is in plainer termes this vz. There is no calling in the newe but is first warranted by some prophecie of the olde Testament To the Assumption But he prooued his ministerie Whether he prooued or did not prooue whether he were accused or not accused the ministerie of Iohn was a lawful ministerie their impeachment there of was not to hinder the execution of his ministerie The warrant rather is the immediate commission from heauen and the prophecie that went of him to exercise his ministerie Howe followeth the Argument à facto adius Or from their constraint to the warrantize of his calling If any proofe should be drawen for or against it can bee other in consequence then this One extraordinarie Minister did vpon occasion of those that cauilled at him prooue his extraordinarie calling out of the worde of God Then euery ordinarie Minister may against wranglers prooue his ordinarie ministerie out of the worde to be the ordinance of God Euen so doe we Or this Iohannes confessus est non negauit Iohn 1.20 Iohn did confesse and denyed not confessed who he was and denied not who hee was Euen so in humilitie we ought to doe and semblably doe Vnlesse it please you to argue after this sort out of the text These things were done in Bethany or Bethabara beyond Iordan or Iohn proued his ministerie in Bethany or Bethabara beyonde Iordan Ergo your ministerie must be proued in Bethany beyond Iordan O then your reason hath a further fetch beyond or on the other side of Iericho or Iordan Or else better after this sort Iohn exercised his ministerie and proued it too without warrantie of an outwarde calling of any that sate in Moses chaire for the people helde him for a Prophet Ergo you haue an exercise of your ministerie without an outwarde calling and may runne before you are sent and the people holde your prophecie and baptisme to be true But this will sauour strongly of Anabaptisme I trowe The 2. Demonstration The callings vnder the Gospel must haue as good warrant as the callings vnder the Law Demonstration But all callings vnder the Lawe except miraculous had direct warrant Ergo. Ridetur chorda qui semper oberrat eadem Remonstrance A
causes of doctrine or manners so farre as appertaineth to conscience to make lawes and orders Ecclesiasticall without her knowledge or consent to sitte and determine as your selues iudge best without any guiding of lawes to haue your sentences once giueÌ„ to stand in force though they be appealed from vntil they be in the last instaÌ„ce reuersed to excommunicate your Soueraigne consequently to discharge your selues for that time of all actuall obedience to call your Synodes and Classies without her writte and to haue the last appellation not to runne vnto the Prince but vnto a nationall Synode All which being true notes of soueraigntie in iurisdiction are at least 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lordly or Seigneuriall if not tyrannicall ergo that which is by you claimed and exercised is in deede by Christ there condemned Neither is it the bare ciuill title of Lorde which is giuen to bishops without any authoritie in that respect that will helpe you against vs here for the Scripture giueth not lawes to wordes but to the matters themselues Yours is Lordlines in deed when you both practise these things against her Maiesties royall supremacie and will haue her to throwe her scepter downe and to licke the dust of the feete of your Church viz. your Presbyterie an epitome or representation of euery seuerall Congregation or Church The 3. Demonstration They that may not be Lords ouer Gods people much lesse may be Lordes ouer the ministers Demonstration who are aboue the people but the first is true ergo the second To the Maior The Maior with a litle more helpe will make themselues Lordes Remonstrance For I doe assure you this no Bishop is Lord ouer the people but a Lorde in respect of his owne Baronrie It is more to be aboue the people in deede then to be a Lord vnto the people in phrase of speech or obsequious worde Nowe forsooth the Ministers are aboue the people that is their betters and in authoritie ouer them as this Maior doth import To the Minor Lordlines is one thing in malam partem Lordship is another S. Peter say you forbiddeth it 1. Pet. 5.3 on whome you say we father Lordlines to be Lordes of Gods heritage 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Nay Peter writeth to the bishops or gouerning pastorall Elders such as himselfe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I a fellowe elder not to tyrannize ouer the flocke but to be example to the faithfull The place of Peter and your collection maketh against your selues Retortion To say ministers may haue dominion ouer the people but Ministers may not haue dominion ouer ministers that is Ministers may rule and not be ruled The drift of the place is Ministers may not tyrannize or haue absolute commaund ouer the people or ouer one another I referre me to the answere made to the second demonstration of this matter The 4. Allegation or Demonstration It is ordeined that euery mans fault must be heard Demonstra Cypr. lib. 1. epi. 3. Remonstrance where the accusers and witnesses are ergo euery Minister had authoritie ouer his flocke The Illatiue is ergo euery bishop hath his limited proper iurisdiction Cyprian complained thus Paucis desperatis minor videtur esse authoritas episcoporum in Africa Certaine desperat companions thought worse of the bishops authoritie in Afrike then else where He founde fault with those that went to Rome out of the prouince not for going out of the Parish with the cause as you insinuate The 5. Allegation Bishops in all the worlde are equall to Parish ministers Demonstrat Luth. aduer Papat à Satana fundat Remonstrance some are of better giftes which giftes cause no Lordship Luther confuteth the supremacie of the bishop of Rome Papam non esse caput christianitatis Dominum mundi And that all bishops whether of Eugub or Rome Rheg or Constantinople Alexand Tauis are equall for the ministerie and heires of the See Apostolike The 6. Allegation The Ministers in the Apostolike Church none aboue other Demonstrat Muscu â—e com de verbi minist were subiect to no Head nor President That is no vniuersall Head otherwise Musculus vpon the 20. Remonstrance of Matth. alloweth Gouernors Presidents Rulers in the church The 7. Allegation A Bishop taking the honour from the Ministers Demonstra Idem super 2. Thess 8.2 was the first steppe to Papacie That is translated from them to erect a newe Ministerie Remonstrance or an illimitable authoritie in the Church which a bishoprike vnder the Gospell is not neither of the 7. steppes to Papacie The 8. Allegation Christ did forbid the Apostles primacie and dominion Demonstraet Confess Holuet That is absolute worldly auaritious ambiti ous dominion Remonstrance not all moderate gouernment and authoritie whatsoeuer Remonstrance The 9. Allegation Equall power is giuen to all Ministers sauing for order Demonstrat Confe Hel. c. 18. Order includeth superioritie and excludeth not dignitie Remonstr Nullus dominium in episcopos vsurpauit The 1. Obiection of the Demonstrator Christ 20. Demonstration Matth. 25. v. forbiddeth ambition and not dominion as Musculus doth expound Answere of the Demonstrator Caluine and others expounde it against superioritie but admitte that dominion is ambition because it causeth a man to aspire aboue his fellowe Ministers There is no witte in this misshapen answere Remonstrance with reply the obiection doth not permit so much vnto you dominion in the better part taken for rule is most contrarying to ambition It must be vniust dominion that causeth ambition as to conspire against his superior and to aspire to an higher place or seate your factious study may be called ambition The 2. Obiection of the Demonstrator The Greeke worde signifieth rule with oppression Demonstration which is forbidden Answere of the Demonstrator That is not so Luke 22.25 v. vseth the single verbe to rule the sonnes of Zebedee desired not to oppresse but to rule It is certaine Remonstrance with reply one place must expounde the other the tenor of the text expoundeth all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is one and consignificant termes which is absolutely tyrannously or ambitiously to gouerne and rule or violently to rule and ouerrule or else an absurd interpretation will follow of the word 19. Act. 16. v. 19. Act. 16. v. The man in whome the ill spirite was ranne vpon the vagabond Iewes and ouercame them and preuailed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 had violent dominion and maisterie ouer them or 1. Pet. 5.3 v. not as exercising a proude dominion ouer the Lordes heritage If the worde signifie not so S. Peter should forewarne them of that which yourselues say is no fault therefore it is as cleare as noone day the children of Zebedee and the Apostles were schooled for that same 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 contentious and ambitious desire of ruling and that ciuilly and absolutely The 3. Obiection of the Demonstrator
Christ saith not No man shall be so but he that will be so desiring it Answere of the Demonstrator Demonstra Luke saith Let the greatest be your seruant ergo that is a shift Though our Sauiour say Remonstrance with reply Vos autem non sic and in Luke Let him be your seruant the one doth represse the humour of ambition the other clause doth expresse Christian humilitie Christ was as their seruant 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yet had he superiour authoritie ouer them Assertion of the Demonstrator A Bishop should be resident in euery Congregation Demonstration The 1. Demonstration If a Bishop and a Minister be all one then must there be a bishop in euery Congregation but they are one for S. Paul describeth them and their qualities all one ergo The Antecedent I admit Remonstrance if they be simply and absolutely all one To the Assumption We will not denie but the wordes Episcopus Presbyter Minister Pastor may notifie all one thing or sometimes taken for all one in describing one and the same thing improperly taken But in their more proper acceptance a bishop and a Presbyter must signifie distinct things both in office and in dignitie This is a flat aequiuocation to say Presbyter or pastoral elder signifieth principally an inferiour minister ergo it must notifie as properly and principally a bishop and a minister As for your wittie reason the bishop and minister haue one qualitie ergo are one thing although I might answere you some of those qualities are not of pure necessitie affixed to the bishop or minister as to be the husband of one wife yet your answere shall be all these are not formall accidents and doe not properly distinguish As for the qualities of yemind they make not special difference of offices in the Church It followeth not because they were a while in the foundation of the Church all one that therefore they doe stil in all respectes continue all one being changed euen in the Apostles times But thus we retort If Presbyter and Episcopus be all one then he that is not episcopus cannot be termed Presbyter idem numero sunt maximè idem conuertuntur but your Lay elders are not episcopi ergo they are not Presbyteri no Elders at all nor so to be termed The 2. Demonstration S. Paules Bishops and Deacons were appointed for one place Demonstration S. Paules Deacons were in euery Congregation Philip. 1. Act. 6.2 and continued longer then the Bishops Athan. 2. Apolog. Hierom. cont Lucifer ergo there ought to be a Bishop in euery Congregation Vnlesse you meane place to be a Congregation in the Maior there are 4. termini in the whole Syllogisme Remonstrance To the partes S. Paules Bishops and Deacons c. This is a false copulatiue and maketh a fallacie of things that are separated true not conioined true by fallacious composition The multiplicitie of the meaning breedeth aequiuocation as before viz. a bishop which is an ouerseer of the flocke whome we call Presbyter or Pastor or Priest and the Deacons are for one Congregation And a bishop who is aboue a Pastor or Priest must be but ouer one Congregation the former is true the later is false Episcopus is a worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of many significations S. Paules bishop is in both significations To the Minor The Apostles did the office of Deacons for a time That they continued longer then Paules bishops it is false sith the equitie of the offices continueth still whether you take them for inferior ministers or distributers to the poore they haue neuer discontinued Vnto the place of Athanasius and Hierom which you do not cite but aime to euery way and no way I haue nothing to say but this Athanasius in the 2. Apolog. defuga sua hath written nothing to countenance your assertion you doe the better to quote nothing And for Hierome there he doth proue that Deacons and Priestes in that Church did baptize being authorized from the bishops who gaue an imposition of handes or confirmation after they had baptized The 3. Demonstration That which Paul commanded Titus Demonstration is to be practised in like case But he commanded him to ordeine Elders which is Bishops Tit. 1.5 ergo they must be in euery place This is strange to refort to this place of Titus which maketh for superioritie Remonstrance and against equalitie of ministers To the Minor Elders all pastorall Elders are in generalitie of signification bishops that is ouerseers all bishops are not inferiour pastorall Elders The answere is before the worde Episcopus and Presbyter are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of many significations The 4. Allegation or Demonstration Euery Church should haue her communion table and bishop Demonstr Ignat. ad Philodelph epist None better then Ignatius distinguisheth the orders His meaning is of an ouerseeing Pastor Remonstrance or where it is expedient to haue a chiefe bishop This allegation is answered cap. 13. The 5. Allegation or Demonstration Where any was found woorthy to be a Bishop there they appointed a Bishop Demonstration where there was not to furnish a bishop and an elder hee meaneth the Doctor there the Apostles made the bishop and left the Elder How iniurious is the Demonstrator to Epiphanius Remonstrance who disputeth against Aerius heresie Erat sermo Aerij furiosus magis quà m humanae conditionis quid est episcopus ad Presbyterum vnus or do vnus honor vna dignitas It was Aerius reasonlesse or furious rather then reasonable maner of speach What is a bishop better then a pastorall elder or priest there is but one order of both like honor both one dignitie With what face can he produce Epiphanius for equalitie who saith a bishop cannot rebuke an elder but because he hath authoritie ouer him Now for Epiphanius his words are otherwise and the Demonstrator either obliuious or neuer read Epiphanius Cum autē multitudo non esset non inuenti sunt inter eos qui presbyteri constituerentur had not the supplie of many priests or pastorall elders They were contented onely with a bishop vntil they might haue complete number of such elders ouer whom the bishop caried his superior hand of authoritie Finally Epiphanius did not so much as dreame of this elder to be there an ordinarie Doctor sith Presbyter with him is but an inferior Pastor What Chamaeleon with changeable colours is our Demonstrator An elder in this new Tetrarchie sometimes is a parish bishop elsewhere an Alderman gouerning his ward other times a graue and profound Doctor all which to sweare with them Epiphanius must be forced The 6. Allegation or Demonstration Demonstr 2. Conc. Carth. 1. Tom. ca. 10. If a bishop run into slander and many bishops cannot suddenly bee gathered the cause must be heard of 12. bishops You may bee ashamed to alleage that Councill to confirme your parish bishops Remonstrance which distinctly setteth downe
the authoritie of Metropolitane dicecesan bishops as also of Presbyter and bishop in the same canon The 7. Demonstr 3. Conc. Carth. Allegation or Demonstration If an elder be accused he may call 6. bishops from the place hard by These are fractions and not distinct demonstrations Remonstrance Your allegation hath an answer before The paucitie or fewnesse of our BB. doth not make against the multitude of theirs therefore this demonstration serueth you to no vse The 8. Demonstr Euseb li. 5. ca. 16 Socrates 4.26 Quest 16. dist 50. Theod. li. 5. c. 4. Allegation or Demonstration Stories make mention of one Sotichus bishop of village of Cuman Of one Mares of Solicha Gregorie of Nazianzum a small Citie Bishop of a castle The towne or place of their See might be litle their iurisdiction great Remonstrance I know not whether it be your or your Printers fault Theodoret remembreth one Mares of Dolicha as for the bishop of Solicha and the bishoprike of that God send all the packe of you no better bishoprikes Dorchester was once the bishops See of Lincolne Shirburne of Sarum Selsey of Cicester Thetford of Norwich Cridie of Excester c. yet the iurisdictions and dicecesses as large as now and some of them much larger The 9. Allegation A minister Demonstr Hier. ad Euagr. super Titum ad Oceanum that is to say a bishop A minister and a bishop all one to Titus With the ancient fathers bishops and ministers all one I must remember you what is said also in the same place Remonstrance Presbyter episcopus aliud aetatis aliud dignitatis Non dico de presbyteris non de inferiori gradu ad episcopos venio Priest a name of age Bishop of dignitie and office Priest an inferiour degree other where priests supplie the Apostles place the bishop supplieth Christes place Be your owne remembrancer in the epistle to Oceanus the drift of Hierome is to shew a difference oddes betweene Deacon and Priest because of certaine who made the Deacon equall to the Priest and yet for all that alway the preheminence of the bishop before the Priest Nam Alexandriae à Marco Euangelista vsque ad Heracliam Dionysium episcopos presbyteri semper vnum ex se electum in superiori gradu collocatum episcopum nominabant Euen from Marke the Euangelist downward to his time the bishop of Alexandria had a superior degree aboue the pastorall elders The 10. Allegation or Demonstration Demonstr D. Barns Acts Monum fol. 216. in the 6. art I will neuer beleeue one can be bishop ouer two or three cities or a whole countrey by the law of God I know not whether he saith so or no but if he haue read and remembred that Titus was bishop of Candie Ignatius of Syria Remonstrance with infinite moe out of the Fathers and Councils he would bee of another beliefe Many things slipped such men vpon hatred to popish bishops The 11. Allegation or Demonstration Demonstr Hooper super 8. comm pa. 90. The office of a bishop is degenerate In the primitiue Church they had no bishops as we haue He speaketh of bishops vnder the Popedome Remonstrance or els the speach might very well be spared his words are If the fourth part remaine to the bishop a third part to the teachers two parts to the poore one part to the souldiours it were better bestowed c. then it is bestowed now None of our bishops haue a fourth part vpon the diuision of all the ecclesiasticall reuenues of his dioeces and therefore no cause herein to assigne a fault in the diuision But if there might be as bishop Hooper thought a more equall diuision what is this to prooue a bishops authoritie in euery Pastor of a parish The eleuenth Chapter Assertion of the Demonstrator THere must be Doctors in the Church Demonstration which is an office different from a Pastor The 1. Demonstration That which the Apostles doe distinguish are distinct but the Apostles distinguish Doctours from Pastours 12. Rom. 7. Eph. 4.11 v. as he doeth distinguish man from woman Gal. 3.28 v. Ergo To the Minor The Apostle maketh distinguishment of giftes Remonstrance not of offices in the first two places albeit distinct giftes and offices yet coincident in one The Apostles did exhort they did teach Actes 2. Peter and Actes 7. Steuen Paul a Doctor and yet spake the word of exhortation Of euery action or qualitie groweth not a separable office and function perpetuall in the Church There are certaine who must distribute Absurditie of the Demonstrator shew mercie prophesie gainsay and stop the mouthes of the gainsaier ergo there are seuerall and set offices officers so many in number as are qualities numbred But the Demonstrator saith distinguished as man and woman Gal. 3. v. 28. S. Paul maketh no distinguishment but a combination or connexion of all in Christ he saith not there is bond there is free male and female but neither male nor female c. The Demonstrator had this obiection for the acception of a copulatiue in that place to the Galathians out of the Fenny water of the Country-poison but the good soule vnderstood it not The meaning was that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the copulatiue maketh a distinction betweene Doctor and Pastor Eph. 4. as it doeth Gal. 3. distinguish betweene male and female But how like those two places are the one to the other to make any such shew I would those that haue but a smacke of Greeke or of any iudgement would consider The 2. Demonstration As the gifts are diuers Demonstration so the offices but the giftes of Doctor and Pastor are diuers 1. Cor. 12. as also experience teacheth Ergo To the Maior Diuers gifts make not diuers offices Remonstrance many gifts go to one facultie science office gift of memorie subtiltie to penetrate betweene the cause and the effect iudgement action eloquution to an Orator One man may be better able to diuide his text another to perswade and yet an office of a preacher To the Minor Though they be sundry giftes yet are they not sundered into seuerall offices Apollos was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 eloquent and yet full of forcible perswasion Act. 18. but you could not haue a more probable place against the making of the Pastor and Doctor two seuerall offices then this of the 1. Cor. 12. for the same officers are here reckoned vp that are in the 4. to the Ephesians and yet no mention here of Pastors but onely Doctors which argueth that vnder the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Doctors Pastors be also contained for els were the diuision vnperfect and the Doctor might better then the Pastor haue bene omitted whome you make not so necessarie as Pastor The 3. Demonstration They who are to take a diuerse course are diuerse The Pastor is to exhort Demonstration the Doctor to attend doctrine
bene retained rather then changed for a name of so strange signification as to vnderstand an Eldership by this word Church especially Christ hauing before in an other matter vsed the very worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Matth. 5. I must then also tell you that the insinuation wrapt vp in one single worde is ouer secret and mysticall for a man to builde his faith and conscience vpon for such a solemne perpetual and necessary Cōsistories establishing that is indued with so manifold and large authorities But if it were meant that the Samplar a thing well knowen should be followed wholy then is the Eldership quite ouerthrowen For not onely the Sanhedrim had as is notorious but this Church whatsoeuer that is meant in this place must haue determination of all waightie matters aswell ciuill as Ecclesiastical That this Church here must so haue it is manifest in that this place containeth a course and processe to be holden with a brother who shall in any matter scandalize or offende them But the most offences betwixt man and man growe not vpon matter Ecclesiastical but vpon matters of this life meere ciuill causes Then by this reckoning euen vnder a Christian magistrate must the Eldership haue a set Court for all matters aswel ciuil as Ecclesiasticall as the Sanhedrim did at Ierusalem least otherwise the woundes be farre greater then the plaister can couer But this dealing in ciuill matters they seeme to detest in others howsoeuer vnderhand they will embrace it or dispense with it in themselues The Sanhedrim were ordinarie Iudges of the highest Court of that nation for all politique temporall causes besides Ecclesiastical There were 72. of it there was no more such in that land and it consisted of the high Priest other Priests Leuites and the chiefe and grauest of the people If therefore they will conforme theirs vnto this then are parish Elderships abroade and all Courts of Recorde at Westminster supped vp at once in this one Consistorie of Sanhedrim and all Ecclesiasticall men shal be for euer at libertie to meddle with matters ciuil as in their owne right which were absurde Besides the Sanhedrim made lawes as Iohn 9.22 they directed Commissions foorth as to Paul in the Actes for attaching and imprisoning which the patrones of Elderships wil pretend not to like of They had none ordination no placing nor displacing of Priestes or Leuites nor yet censures of excommunication for any thing I can yet reade sufficient to satisfie mee Shall then the Eldership haue no such authorities If it be saide the two former were corruptions First I woulde haue it prooued then I answere that Caluine maketh the whole Sanhedrim it selfe but a corruption of that state Lastly they must graunt either that Christ alluded not vnto it at all nor made it any Samplar for his Church or else made it a perfect samplar entierly and alwayes euen vnder a Christian magistrate to be followed for we finde none exceptions in Scripture Howe then it may be followed in some part and despised in an other let the first deuisers discusse The 2. Demonstration That which S. Paul enioyned the Church to do when they came together may not be done by one man Demonstrat But he commaunded them to excommunicate the incestuous person Ergo. There is an aequiuocation in the worde Doe in the Maior and it is false Remonstrance as is shewed But I distinguish vpon the Minor Paul commaunded them onely to denounce and publish not to excommunicate The wordes are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I as absent in bodie but present in spirit haue alreadie decreed and iudged as if I were present in the Name of our Lorde Iesus Christ c. from whom this braunch of his authoritie is deriued Ius excommunicandi the right of excommunication was in himselfe Howbeit the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 You being congregated or assembled together and my spirit with the power c. argueth the presence of the people a full Congregation to denounce an excommunication not the right or interest to excommunicate in all As for the presence of the people it is required now at denunciation But what were all the people here of the Presbyterie or had they none such For here all are mentioned to whom he writ How doeth this prooue the Eldership to haue such power or to be necessarie in euery Church if they had none Eldership The 3. Demonstration That which hath neede of greatest aduise and authoritie Demonstrat is not to be done by one man But so is excommunication Ergo. To the Maior Many instances may be framed to this Preaching of the Gospel Remonstrance prophecying 1. Corinth 14. ministration of Baptisme and the Lords supper supreme authoritie and iudgement of a King and many other matters of great importance cannot be done but by one man at one time To the Minor Excommunication is not greater then absolution which is also to be done by one man To saue a soule is greater then to destroy a soule and yet by the preaching of Peter being one man were added vnto the Church three thousand soules The worke of our redemption is but one mans worke the greatest worke You haue no skill of the olde rule nullum proprium datur in gradu superlatiuo And may not one mans aduise directed by lawe 5. Topic. be more sounde then an hundreth running on head and but otherwise vnlearned The 4. Demonstration They must excommunicate who are to deale in other parts of discipline Demonstrat but the other are not exercised by one Ergo neither this This is obscurum per obscurius or to begge that which is in question still This defaceth themselues Remonstrance for Deacons deale in other parts of their discipline and yet being discipliners are none of the Eldership And I neuer heard afore they might excommunicate Cathechizing preaching teaching publicke praying baptizing and celebrating the Supper blessing of marriages c. are parts of the Discipline yet exercised by the doctor alone or pastour alone To the Minor There is none of these offices which are mainteinable in our Church but may be executed by one if it shall seeme best for the commoditie and seruice of the Church The 5. Demonstration As it was amongst the Iewes so it must bee in the Church for euer Demonstrat as it appeareth by this for it is translated from them to vs as the Greeke worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being by corrupt imitation called Sanhedrim by the Rabbynes doeth import and had nothing ceremoniall in it But it was executed by the Church amongst them and not by one Iohn 9.22 Ergo the Church is to excommunicate and not one man Here the Demonstrator leaueth off his Christianitie and will become a Iewe Remonstrance and erect the Iewish policie of gouerning the Church To the Maior By the Iewes you may meane either the Iewish Synagogue or the Apostles and disciples in Iewrie The later you cannot