predetermination_n or_o against_o it_o stephen_n bishop_n of_o rome_n hold_v it_o as_o a_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o apostolic_a tradition_n that_o heretic_n give_v true_a baptism_n other_o there_o be_v and_o they_o as_o good_a catholic_n as_o he_o that_o hold_v that_o this_o be_v neither_o matter_n of_o faith_n nor_o matter_n of_o truth_n justin_n martyr_n and_o irenaeus_n hold_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o millenaries_n as_o a_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o though_o justin_n martyr_v deny_v it_o yet_o you_o i_o hope_v will_v affirm_v that_o some_o good_a christian_n hold_v the_o contrary_n s._n augustine_n i_o be_o sure_a hold_v the_o communicate_v of_o infant_n as_o much_o apostolic_a tradition_n as_o the_o baptise_v of_o they_o whether_o the_o bishop_n and_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n of_o his_o time_n hold_v so_o too_o or_o hold_v otherwise_o i_o desire_v you_o to_o determine_v but_o sure_o i_o be_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n at_o this_o present_a hold_v the_o contrary_a the_o 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the_o opposite_a part_n err_v damnable_o and_o deny_v god_n truth_n sufficient_o propound_v or_o they_o do_v not_o if_o they_o do_v than_o they_o which_o do_v deny_v god_n truth_n sufficient_o propound_v may_v go_v to_o heaven_n and_o than_o you_o be_v rash_a and_o uncharitable_a in_o exclude_v we_o though_o we_o be_v guilty_a of_o this_o fault_n if_o not_o then_o there_o be_v no_o such_o necessity_n that_o of_o two_o disagree_v about_o a_o matter_n of_o faith_n one_o shall_v deny_v god_n truth_n sufficient_o propound_v and_o so_o the_o major_a and_o minor_a of_o your_o argument_n be_v prove_v false_a yet_o though_o they_o be_v as_o true_a as_o gospel_n and_o as_o evident_a as_o mathematical_a principle_n the_o conclusion_n so_o impertinent_a be_v it_o to_o the_o premise_n may_v still_o be_v false_a for_o that_o which_o natural_o issue_v from_o these_o proposition_n be_v not_o therefore_o one_o only_o can_v be_v save_v but_o therefore_o one_o of_o they_o do_v something_o that_o be_v damnable_a but_o with_o what_o logic_n or_o what_o charity_n you_o can_v infer_v either_o as_o the_o immediate_a production_n of_o the_o former_a premise_n or_o as_o a_o corollary_n from_o this_o conclusion_n therefore_o one_o only_o can_v be_v save_v i_o do_v not_o understand_v unless_o you_o will_v pretend_v that_o this_o consequence_n be_v good_a such_o a_o one_o do_v something_o damnable_a therefore_o he_o shall_v certain_o be_v damn_v which_o whether_o it_o be_v not_o to_o overthrow_v the_o article_n of_o our_o faith_n which_o promise_v remission_n of_o sin_n upon_o repentance_n and_o consequent_o to_o ruin_v the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n i_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o pope_n and_o the_o cardinal_n to_o determine_v for_o if_o against_o this_o it_o be_v allege_v that_o no_o man_n can_v repent_v of_o the_o sin_n wherein_o he_o die_v this_o muce_n i_o have_v already_o stop_v by_o show_v that_o if_o it_o be_v a_o sin_n of_o ignorance_n this_o be_v no_o way_n incongruous_a 13._o ad_fw-la 6._o §_o in_o your_o six_o parag._n i_o let_v all_o pass_v save_v only_o this_o that_o a_o persuasion_n that_o man_n of_o different_a religion_n you_o must_v mean_n christian_n of_o different_a opinion_n or_o communion_n may_v be_v save_v be_v a_o most_o pernicious_a heresy_n and_o even_o a_o ground_n of_o atheism_n what_o strange_a extraction_n chemistry_n can_v make_v i_o know_v not_o but_o sure_o i_o be_o he_o that_o by_o reason_n will_v infer_v this_o conclusion_n that_o there_o be_v no_o god_n from_o this_o ground_n that_o god_n will_v save_v man_n in_o different_a religion_n must_v have_v a_o high_a strain_n of_o logic_n than_o you_o or_o i_o have_v hitherto_o make_v show_v of_o in_o my_o apprehension_n the_o other_o part_n of_o the_o contradiction_n that_o there_o be_v a_o god_n shall_v much_o rather_o follow_v from_o it_o and_o i_o say_v and_o will_v maintain_v that_o to_o say_v that_o christian_n of_o different_a opinion_n and_o communion_n such_o i_o mean_v who_o hold_v all_o those_o thing_n that_o be_v simple_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n may_v not_o obtain_v pardon_n for_o the_o error_n wherein_o they_o die_v ignorant_o by_o a_o general_a repentance_n be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v a_o ground_n of_o atheism_n that_o to_o say_v the_o contrary_a be_v to_o cross_v in_o diameter_n a_o main_a article_n of_o our_o creed_n and_o to_o overthrow_v the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n 14._o ad_fw-la 7._o §_o to_o what_o you_o say_v of_o some_o protestant_n that_o hold_v it_o necessary_a to_o be_v able_a to_o prove_v a_o perpetual_a visible_a church_n distinct_a from_o you_o i_o answer_v some_z perhaps_o undertake_v to_o do_v so_o as_o a_o matter_n of_o courtesy_n but_o i_o believe_v you_o will_v be_v much_o to_o seek_v for_o any_o one_o that_o hold_v it_o necessary_a for_o though_o you_o say_v that_o christ_n have_v promise_v there_o shall_v be_v a_o perpetual_a visible_a church_n yet_o you_o yourselves_o do_v not_o pretend_v that_o he_o have_v promise_v there_o shall_v be_v history_n and_o record_n always_o extant_a of_o the_o professor_n of_o it_o in_o all_o age_n nor_o that_o he_o have_v any_o where_o enjoin_v we_o to_o read_v those_o history_n that_o we_o may_v be_v able_a to_o show_v they_o 17._o to_o your_o ensue_a demand_n though_o some_o of_o they_o be_v very_o captious_a and_o ensnare_a yet_o i_o will_v give_v you_o as_o clear_v and_o plain_a and_o ingenuous_a answer_n as_o possible_o i_o can_v 18._o ad_fw-la 11._o §_o to_o the_o first_o then_o about_o the_o perpetuity_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n my_o answer_n be_v that_o i_o believe_v our_o saviour_n ever_o since_o his_o ascension_n have_v have_v in_o some_o place_n or_o other_o a_o visible_a true_a church_n on_o earth_n i_o mean_v a_o company_n of_o man_n that_o profess_v at_o least_o so_o much_o truth_n as_o be_v absolute_o necessary_a for_o their_o salvation_n and_o i_o believe_v that_o there_o will_v be_v somewhere_o or_o other_o such_o a_o church_n to_o the_o world_n end_n but_o the_o contrary_a doctrine_n i_o do_v at_o no_o hand_n believe_v to_o be_v a_o damnable_a heresy_n 19_o ad_fw-la 12._o §_o to_o the_o second_o what_o visible_a church_n there_o be_v before_o luther_n disagree_v from_o the_o roman_a i_o answer_v that_o before_o luther_n there_o be_v many_o visible_a church_n in_o many_o thing_n disagree_v from_o the_o roman_a but_o not_o that_o the_o whole_a catholic_n church_n disagree_v from_o she_o because_o she_o herself_o be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o whole_a though_o much_o corrupt_v and_o to_o undertake_v to_o name_v a_o catholic_n church_n disagree_v from_o she_o be_v to_o make_v she_o no_o part_n of_o it_o which_o we_o do_v not_o nor_o need_v not_o pretend_v and_o for_o man_n agree_v with_o protestant_n in_o all_o point_n we_o will_v then_o produce_v they_o when_o you_o shall_v either_o prove_v it_o necessary_a to_o be_v do_v which_o you_o know_v we_o absolute_o deny_v or_o when_o you_o shall_v produce_v a_o perpetual_a succession_n of_o professor_n which_o in_o all_o point_n have_v agree_v with_o you_o and_o disagree_v from_o you_o in_o nothing_o but_o this_o my_o promise_n to_o deal_v plain_o with_o you_o i_o conceive_v and_o so_o intend_v it_o to_o be_v very_o like_o he_o who_o undertake_v to_o drink_v up_o the_o sea_n upon_o condition_n that_o he_o to_o who_o the_o promise_n be_v make_v shall_v first_o stop_v the_o river_n from_o run_v in_o for_o this_o unreasonable_a request_n which_o you_o make_v to_o we_o be_v to_o yourselves_o so_o impossible_a that_o in_o the_o very_a next_o age_n after_o the_o apostle_n you_o will_v never_o be_v able_a to_o name_v a_o man_n who_o you_o can_v prove_v to_o have_v agree_v with_o you_o in_o all_o thing_n nay_o if_o you_o speak_v of_o such_o who_o work_n be_v extant_a and_o unquestioned_a who_o we_o can_v prove_v
authority_n of_o universal_a tradition_n that_o we_o will_v have_v they_o believe_v scripture_n but_o then_o as_o for_o the_o authority_n which_o you_o will_v have_v they_o follow_v you_o will_v let_v they_o see_v reason_n why_o they_o shall_v follow_v it_o and_o be_v not_o this_o to_o go_v a_o little_a about_o to_o leave_v reason_n for_o a_o short_a turn_n and_o then_o to_o come_v to_o it_o again_o and_o to_o do_v that_o which_o you_o condemn_v in_o other_o it_o be_v indeed_o a_o plain_a impossibility_n for_o any_o man_n to_o submit_v his_o reason_n but_o to_o reason_n for_o he_o that_o do_v it_o to_o authority_n must_v of_o necessity_n think_v himself_o to_o have_v great_a reason_n to_o believe_v that_o authority_n therefore_o the_o confession_n cite_v by_o brere_o you_o need_v not_o think_v to_o have_v be_v extort_a from_o luther_n and_o the_o rest_n it_o come_v very_o free_o from_o they_o and_o what_o they_o say_v you_o practise_v as_o much_o as_o they_o 115._o and_o whereas_o 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be_v you_o ready_a to_o render_v a_o reason_n of_o the_o hope_n that_o be_v in_o you_o last_o this_o very_a pernicious_a doctrine_n be_v teach_v by_o our_o saviour_n in_o these_o word_n if_o the_o blind_a lead_n the_o blind_a both_o shall_v fall_v into_o the_o ditch_n and_o why_o of_o yourselves_o judge_v you_o not_o what_o be_v right_a all_o which_o speech_n if_o they_o do_v not_o advise_v man_n to_o make_v use_n of_o their_o reason_n for_o the_o choice_n of_o their_o religion_n i_o must_v confess_v myself_o to_o understand_v nothing_o last_o not_o to_o be_v infinite_a it_o be_v teach_v by_o m._n knot_n himself_o not_o in_o one_o page_n only_o or_o chapter_n of_o his_o book_n but_o all_o his_o book_n over_o the_o very_a writing_n and_o publish_v whereof_o suppose_v this_o for_o certain_a that_o the_o reader_n be_v to_o be_v judge_n whether_o his_o reason_n which_o he_o bring_v be_v strong_a and_o convince_a of_o which_o sort_n we_o have_v hitherto_o meet_v with_o none_o or_o else_o 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to_o support_v the_o foundation_n will_v not_o campian_n have_v cry_v out_o at_o it_o ecce_fw-la quos_fw-la gyros_fw-la quos_fw-la maeandros_fw-la and_o to_o what_o end_n be_v this_o go_v about_o when_o you_o may_v as_o well_o at_o first_o have_v conclude_v the_o church_n infallible_a because_o she_o say_v so_o as_o thus_o to_o put_v in_o scripture_n for_o a_o mere_a stale_n and_o to_o say_v the_o church_n be_v infallible_a because_o the_o scripture_n say_v so_o and_o the_o scripture_n mean_v so_o because_o the_o church_n say_v so_o which_o be_v infallible_a be_v it_o not_o most_o evident_a therefore_o to_o every_o intelligent_a man_n that_o you_o be_v enforce_v of_o necessity_n to_o do_v that_o yourself_o which_o so_o tragical_o you_o declaim_v against_o in_o other_o the_o
believe_v they_o for_o every_o obligation_n cease_v when_o it_o become_v impossible_a who_o can_v doubt_v but_o the_o primitive_a christian_n to_o who_o the_o epistle_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v write_v either_o of_o themselves_o understand_v or_o be_v instruct_v by_o the_o apostle_n touch_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o obscure_a place_n of_o they_o these_o traditive_a interpretation_n have_v they_o be_v write_v and_o disperse_v as_o the_o scripture_n be_v have_v without_o question_n be_v preserve_v as_o the_o scripture_n be_v but_o to_o show_v how_o excellent_a a_o keeper_n of_o the_o tradition_n the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v be_v or_o even_o the_o catholic_n church_n for_o want_v of_o writing_n they_o be_v all_o lose_v nay_o be_v all_o lose_v within_o a_o few_o age_n after_o christ_n so_o that_o if_o we_o consult_v the_o ancient_a interpreter_n we_o shall_v hardly_o find_v any_o two_o of_o they_o agree_v about_o the_o sense_n of_o any_o one_o of_o they_o cardinal_n perron_n in_o his_o discourse_n of_o tradition_n have_v allege_v this_o place_n for_o they_o hold_v the_o tradition_n etc._n etc._n tell_v we_o we_o must_v not_o answer_v that_o s._n paul_n speak_v here_o only_o of_o such_o tradition_n which_o though_o not_o in_o this_o epist_n to_o the_o thessalonian_o yet_o be_v afterward_o witten_v and_o in_o other_o book_n of_o scripture_n because_o it_o be_v upon_o occasion_n of_o tradition_n touch_v the_o cause_n of_o the_o hindrance_n of_o the_o come_n of_o antichrist_n which_o be_v never_o write_v that_o he_o lay_v this_o injunction_n upon_o they_o to_o hold_v the_o tradition_n well_o let_v we_o grant_v this_o argument_n good_a and_o conclude_v and_o that_o the_o church_n of_o the_o thessalonian_o or_o the_o catholic_n church_n for_o what_o s._n paul_n write_v to_o one_o church_n he_o write_v to_o all_o be_v to_o hold_v some_o unwritten_a tradition_n and_o among_o the_o rest_n what_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o the_o hindrance_n of_o the_o come_n of_o antichrist_n but_o what_o if_o they_o do_v not_o perform_v their_o duty_n in_o this_o point_n but_o suffer_v this_o tradition_n to_o be_v lose_v out_o of_o the_o memory_n of_o the_o church_n shall_v we_o not_o conclude_v that_o see_v god_n will_v not_o suffer_v any_o thing_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n to_o be_v lose_v and_o he_o have_v suffer_v this_o tradition_n to_o be_v lose_v therefore_o the_o knowledge_n or_o belief_n of_o it_o though_o it_o be_v a_o profitable_a thing_n yet_o it_o be_v not_o necessary_a i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o challenge_v such_o authority_n over_o we_o as_o to_o oblige_v we_o to_o impossibility_n to_o do_v that_o which_o you_o can_v do_v yourselves_o it_o be_v therefore_o requisite_a that_o you_o make_v this_o command_n possible_a to_o be_v obey_v before_o you_o require_v obedience_n unto_o it_o be_v you_o able_a then_o to_o instruct_v we_o so_o well_o as_o to_o be_v fit_a to_o say_v unto_o we_o now_o you_o know_v what_o withhold_v or_o do_v you_o yourselves_o know_v that_o you_o may_v instruct_v we_o can_v you_o or_o dare_v you_o say_v this_o or_o this_o be_v this_o hindrance_n which_o s._n paul_n here_o mean_v and_o all_o man_n under_o pain_n of_o damnation_n be_v to_o believe_v it_o or_o if_o you_o can_v as_o i_o be_o certain_a you_o can_v go_v then_o and_o vaunt_v your_o church_n for_o the_o only_a watchful_a faithful_a infallible_a keeper_n of_o the_o apostle_n tradition_n when_o here_o this_o very_a tradition_n which_o here_o in_o particular_a be_v deposit_v with_o the_o thessalonian_o and_o the_o premitive_a church_n you_o have_v utter_o lose_v it_o so_o that_o there_o be_v no_o footstep_n or_o print_n of_o it_o remain_v which_o with_o divine_a faith_n we_o may_v rely_v upon_o bless_a therefore_o be_v the_o goodness_n of_o god_n who_o see_v that_o what_o be_v not_o write_v be_v in_o such_o danger_n to_o be_v lose_v take_v order_n that_o what_o be_v necessary_a shall_v be_v write_v s._n chrysostoms_n counsel_n therefore_o of_o account_v the_o church_n tradition_n worthy_a of_o belief_n we_o be_v willing_a to_o obey_v and_o if_o you_o can_v of_o any_o thing_n make_v it_o appear_v that_o it_o be_v tradition_n we_o will_v seek_v no_o far_o but_o this_o we_o say_v withal_o that_o we_o be_v persuade_v we_o can_v make_v this_o appear_v in_o any_o thing_n but_o only_o the_o canon_n of_o scripture_n and_o that_o there_o be_v nothing_o now_o extant_a and_o to_o be_v know_v by_o we_o which_o can_v put_v in_o so_o good_a plea_n to_o be_v the_o unwritten_a word_n of_o god_n as_o the_o unquestioned_a book_n of_o canonical_a scripture_n to_o be_v the_o write_a word_n of_o god_n 47._o you_o conclude_v this_o paragraph_n with_o a_o sentence_n of_o s._n augustine_n who_o say_v the_o church_n do_v not_o approve_v nor_o dissemble_v nor_o do_v these_o thing_n which_o be_v against_o faith_n or_o good_a life_n and_o from_o hence_o you_o conclude_v that_o it_o never_o have_v do_v so_o nor_o never_o can_v do_v so_o but_o though_o the_o argument_n hold_v in_o logic_n à _fw-la non_fw-la posse_fw-la ad_fw-la non_fw-la esse_fw-la yet_o i_o never_o hear_v that_o it_o will_v hold_v back_o again_o à _fw-la non_fw-la esse_fw-la ad_fw-la non_fw-la posse_fw-la the_o church_n can_v do_v this_o therefore_o it_o do_v it_o not_o follows_z with_o good_a consequence_n but_o the_o church_n do_v not_o this_o therefore_o it_o shall_v never_o do_v it_o nor_o can_v never_o do_v it_o this_o i_o believe_v will_v hardly_o follow_v in_o the_o epistle_n next_o before_o to_o the_o same_o januarius_n write_v of_o the_o same_o matter_n he_o have_v these_o word_n it_o remain_v that_o the_o thing_n you_o inquire_v of_o must_v be_v of_o that_o three_o kind_n of_o thing_n which_o be_v different_a in_o divers_a place_n let_v every_o one_o therefore_o do_v that_o which_o he_o find_v do_v in_o the_o church_n to_o which_o he_o come_v for_o none_o of_o they_o be_v against_o faith_n or_o good_a manner_n and_o why_o do_v you_o not_o infer_v from_o hence_o that_o no_o particular_a church_n can_v bring_v up_o any_o custom_n that_o be_v against_o faith_n or_o good_a manner_n certain_o this_o consequence_n have_v as_o good_a reason_n for_o it_o as_o the_o former_a if_o a_o man_n say_v of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n what_o s._n austin_n of_o the_o church_n that_o she_o neither_o approve_v nor_o dissemble_v nor_o do_v any_o thing_n against_o faith_n or_o good_a manner_n will_v you_o collect_v present_o that_o this_o man_n do_v either_o make_v or_o think_v the_o church_n of_o england_n infallible_a furthermore_o it_o be_v observable_a out_o of_o this_o and_o the_o former_a epistle_n that_o this_o church_n which_o do_v not_o as_o s._n austin_n according_a to_o you_o think_v approve_v or_o dissemble_v or_o do_v any_o thing_n against_o faith_n or_o good_a life_n do_v yet_o tolerate_v and_o dissemble_v vain_a superstition_n and_o humane_a presumption_n and_o suffer_v all_o place_n to_o be_v full_a of_o they_o and_o to_o be_v exact_v as_o nay_o more_o severe_o than_o the_o commandment_n of_o god_n himself_o this_o s._n austin_n himself_o profess_v in_o this_o very_a epistle_n this_o say_v he_o i_o do_v infinite_o grieve_v at_o that_o many_o most_o wholesome_a precept_n of_o the_o divine_a scripture_n be_v little_o regard_v and_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n all_o be_v so_o full_a of_o so_o many_o presumption_n that_o he_o be_v more_o grievous_o find_v fault_n with_o who_o during_o his_o octave_n touch_v the_o earth_n with_o his_o naked_a foot_n than_o he_o that_o shall_v bury_v his_o soul_n in_o drunkenness_n of_o these_o he_o say_v that_o they_o be_v neither_o contain_v in_o scripture_n decree_v by_o council_n nor_o corroborate_v by_o the_o custom_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n and_o though_o not_o against_o faith_n yet_o unprofitable_a burden_n of_o christian_a liberty_n which_o make_v the_o condition_n of_o the_o jew_n more_o tolerable_a than_o that_o of_o christian_n and_o therefore_o he_o profess_v of_o they_o approbare_fw-la non_fw-la possum_fw-la i_o can_v approve_v they_o and_o ubi_fw-la facultas_fw-la tribuitur_fw-la resecanda_fw-la existimo_fw-la i_o think_v they_o be_v to_o be_v cut_v off_o wheresoever_o we_o have_v power_n yet_o so_o deep_o be_v they_o root_v and_o spread_v so_o far_o through_o the_o indiscreet_a devotion_n of_o the_o people_n always_o more_o prone_a to_o superstition_n than_o true_a piety_n and_o through_o the_o connivance_n of_o the_o governor_n who_o shall_v have_v strangle_v they_o at_o their_o birth_n that_o himself_o though_o he_o grieve_v at_o they_o and_o can_v not_o allow_v they_o yet_o for_o fear_n of_o offence_n he_o dare_v not_o speak_v against_o they_o multa_fw-la hujusmodi_fw-la propter_fw-la nonnullarum_fw-la vel_fw-la sanctarum_fw-la vel_fw-la turbulentarum_fw-la personarum_fw-la scandala_fw-la devitanda_fw-la liberius_fw-la improbare_fw-la non_fw-la audeo_fw-la many_o of_o these_o thing_n for_o fear_n of_o
in_o particular_a admonish_v that_o for_o so_o small_a a_o cause_n propter_fw-la tam_fw-la modicam_fw-la causam_fw-la he_o shall_v not_o have_v cut_v off_o so_o many_o province_n from_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n and_o last_o see_v the_o eccesiastical_a story_n of_o those_o time_n mention_n not_o other_o notable_a example_n of_o any_o such_o schismatical_a presumption_n but_o this_o of_o victor_n certain_o we_o have_v great_a inducement_n to_o imagine_v that_o irenaeus_n in_o this_o place_n by_o you_o quote_v have_v a_o special_a aim_n at_o the_o bishop_n and_o church_n of_o rome_n once_o this_o i_o be_o sure_a of_o that_o the_o place_n fit_v he_o and_o many_o of_o his_o successor_n as_o well_o as_o if_o it_o have_v be_v make_v purposely_o for_o they_o and_o this_o also_o that_o he_o which_o find_v fault_n with_o they_o who_o separate_v upon_o small_a cause_n imply_v clear_o that_o he_o conceive_v their_o might_n be_v such_o cause_n as_o be_v great_a and_o sufficient_a and_o that_o then_o a_o reformation_n be_v to_o be_v make_v notwithstanding_o any_o danger_n of_o division_n that_o may_v ensue_v upon_o it_o 12._o last_o s._n denis_n of_o alexandria_n say_v indeed_o and_o very_o well_o that_o all_o thing_n shall_v be_v rather_o endure_v than_o we_o shall_v consent_v to_o the_o division_n of_o the_o church_n i_o will_v add_v rather_o than_o consent_v to_o the_o continuation_n of_o the_o division_n if_o it_o may_v be_v remedy_v but_o then_o i_o be_o to_o tell_v you_o that_o he_o say_v not_o all_o thing_n shall_v rather_o be_v do_v but_o only_o all_o thing_n shall_v rather_o be_v endure_v or_o suffer_v wherein_o he_o speak_v not_o of_o the_o evil_a of_o sin_n but_o of_o pain_n and_o misery_n not_o of_o tolerate_v either_o error_n or_o sin_n in_o other_o though_o that_o may_v be_v lawful_a much_o less_o of_o join_v with_o other_o for_o quietness_n sake_n which_o only_o be_v to_o your_o purpose_n in_o the_o profession_n of_o error_n and_o practice_n of_o sin_n but_o of_o suffer_v any_o affliction_n nay_o even_o martyrdom_n in_o our_o own_o person_n rather_o than_o consent_v to_o the_o division_n of_o the_o church_n omnia_fw-la incommoda_fw-la so_o your_o own_o christophorson_n enforce_v by_o the_o circumstance_n of_o the_o place_n translate_v dionysius_n his_o word_n all_o misery_n shall_v rather_o be_v endure_v than_o we_o shall_v consent_v to_o the_o church_n division_n 13._o ad_fw-la §_o 9_o in_o this_o paragraph_n you_o tell_v we_o first_o that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o total_a deficiency_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n maintain_v by_o many_o chief_a protestant_n imply_v in_o it_o vast_a absurdity_n or_o rather_o sacrilegious_a blasphemy_n answ_n but_o neither_o do_v the_o protestant_n allege_v by_o you_o maintain_v the_o deficiency_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n but_o only_o of_o the_o church_n visibility_n or_o of_o the_o church_n as_o it_o be_v visible_a neither_o do_v they_o hold_v that_o the_o visible_a church_n have_v fail_v total_o from_o its_o essence_n but_o only_o from_o its_o purity_n and_o that_o it_o fall_v into_o many_o corruption_n but_o yet_o not_o to_o nothing_o you_o say_v second_o that_o the_o reason_n which_o cast_v they_o upon_o this_o wicked_a doctrine_n be_v a_o desperate_a voluntary_a necessity_n because_o they_o be_v resolve_v not_o to_o acknowledge_v the_o roman_a to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n and_o be_v convince_v by_o all_o manner_n of_o evidence_n that_o for_o diverse_a age_n before_o luther_n there_o be_v no_o other_o but_o this_o be_v not_o to_o dispute_v but_o to_o divine_a and_o take_v upon_o you_o the_o property_n of_o god_n which_o be_v to_o know_v the_o heart_n of_o men._n for_o why_o i_o pray_v may_v not_o the_o reason_n hereof_o rather_o be_v because_o they_o be_v convince_v by_o all_o manner_n of_o evidence_n as_o scripture_n reason_n antiquity_n that_o all_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o the_o world_n but_o above_o all_o the_o roman_a have_v degenerate_v from_o the_o purity_n of_o the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n and_o thereupon_o do_v conclude_v there_o be_v no_o visible_a church_n mean_v by_o no_o church_n none_o free_a from_o corruption_n and_o conformable_a in_o all_o thing_n to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o christ_n 14._o ad_fw-la §_o 10._o neither_o be_v there_o any_o repugnance_n but_o in_o word_n only_o between_o these_o as_o you_o be_v please_v to_o style_v they_o exterminate_v spirit_n and_o those_o other_o who_o out_o of_o courtesy_n you_o entitle_v in_o your_o 10._o §_o more_o moderate_a protestant_n for_o these_o affirm_v the_o perpetual_a visibility_n of_o the_o church_n yet_o neither_o deny_v nor_o doubt_n of_o she_o be_v subject_a to_o manifold_a and_o grievous_a corruption_n and_o those_o of_o such_o a_o nature_n as_o be_v they_o not_o mitigate_v by_o invincible_a or_o at_o least_o a_o very_a probable_a ignorance_n none_o subject_a to_o they_o can_v be_v save_v and_o they_o on_o the_o other_o side_n deny_v the_o church_n visibility_n yet_o plain_o affirm_v that_o they_o conceive_v very_o good_a hope_n of_o the_o salvation_n of_o many_o of_o their_o ignorant_a and_o honest_a forefather_n thus_o declare_v plain_o though_o in_o word_n they_o deny_v the_o visibility_n of_o the_o true_a church_n yet_o their_o meaning_n be_v not_o to_o deny_v the_o perpetuity_n but_o the_o perpetual_a purity_n and_o incorruption_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n 17._o ad_fw-la §_o 11._o you_o ask_v to_o what_o congregation_n shall_v a_o man_n have_v recourse_n for_o the_o affair_n of_o his_o soul_n if_o upon_o earth_n there_o be_v no_o visible_a church_n of_o christ_n answ_n if_o some_o one_o christian_a live_v alone_o among_o pagan_n in_o some_o country_n remote_a from_o christendom_n shall_v we_o conceive_v it_o impossible_a for_o this_o man_n to_o be_v save_v because_o he_o can_v have_v recourse_n to_o any_o congregation_n for_o the_o affair_n of_o his_o soul_n will_v it_o not_o be_v sufficient_a for_o such_o a_o one_o salvation_n to_o know_v the_o doctrine_n of_o christ_n and_o live_v according_a to_o it_o 18._o obj._n to_o imagine_v a_o company_n of_o man_n believe_v one_o thing_n in_o their_o heart_n and_o with_o their_o mouth_n profess_v the_o contrary_n as_o they_o must_v be_v suppose_v to_o do_v for_o if_o they_o have_v profess_v what_o they_o believe_v they_o will_v have_v become_v visible_a be_v to_o dream_v of_o a_o damn_a crew_n of_o dissemble_a sycophant_n but_o not_o to_o conceive_v aright_o of_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n answ_n what_o be_v this_o to_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o church_n may_v not_o the_o church_n be_v invisible_a and_o yet_o these_o that_o be_v of_o it_o profess_v their_o faith_n no_o say_v you_o their_o profession_n will_v make_v they_o visible_a very_o true_a visible_a in_o the_o place_n where_o and_o in_o the_o time_n when_o they_o live_v and_o to_o those_o person_n unto_o who_o they_o have_v necessary_a occasion_n to_o make_v their_o profession_n but_o not_o visible_a to_o all_o or_o any_o great_a or_o considerable_a part_n of_o the_o world_n while_o they_o live_v much_o less_o conspicuous_a to_o all_o age_n after_o they_o now_o it_o be_v a_o church_n thus_o illustrious_o and_o conspicuous_o visible_a that_o you_o require_v by_o who_o splendour_n all_o man_n may_v be_v direct_v and_o draw_v to_o repair_v to_o she_o for_o the_o affair_n of_o their_o soul_n neither_o be_v it_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o church_n absolute_o but_o this_o degree_n of_o it_o which_o the_o most_o rigid_a protestant_n deny_v which_o be_v plain_a enough_o out_o of_o the_o place_n of_o napper_n cite_v by_o you_o in_o your_o 9_o part._n of_o this_o chap_a where_o his_o word_n be_v god_n have_v withdraw_v his_o visible_a church_n from_o open_a assembly_n to_o the_o heart_n of_o particular_a godly_a man_n and_o this_o church_n which_o have_v not_o open_a assembly_n he_o call_v the_o latent_fw-la and_o invisible_a church_n now_o i_o hope_v papist_n in_o england_n will_v be_v very_o apt_a to_o 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who_o the_o pope_n be_v so_o subject_a unto_o that_o they_o may_v dispense_v with_o he_o whether_o that_o be_v certain_a which_o you_o take_v for_o grant_v that_o your_o ordination_n imprint_n a_o character_n and_o we_o do_v not_o whether_o the_o power_n of_o consecrate_v and_o ordain_v by_o imposition_n of_o hand_n may_v not_o reside_v in_o the_o bishop_n and_o be_v derive_v unto_o they_o not_o from_o the_o king_n but_o god_n and_o yet_o the_o king_n have_v authority_n to_o command_v they_o to_o apply_v this_o power_n to_o such_o a_o fit_a person_n who_o he_o shall_v commend_v unto_o they_o as_o well_o as_o if_o some_o architect_n only_o have_v the_o faculty_n of_o architecture_n and_o have_v it_o immediate_o by_o infusion_n from_o god_n himself_o yet_o if_o they_o be_v the_o king_n subject_n he_o want_v not_o authority_n to_o command_v they_o to_o build_v he_o a_o palace_n for_o his_o use_n or_o a_o fortress_n for_o his_o service_n or_o as_o the_o king_n of_o france_n pretend_v not_o to_o have_v power_n to_o make_v priest_n himself_o yet_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o deny_v he_o power_n to_o command_v any_o of_o his_o subject_n that_o have_v this_o power_n to_o ordain_v any_o fit_a person_n priest_n who_o he_o shall_v desire_v to_o be_v ordain_v whether_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o whensoever_o the_o king_n command_v a_o house_n to_o be_v build_v a_o message_n to_o be_v deliver_v or_o a_o murderer_n to_o be_v execute_v that_o all_o these_o thing_n be_v present_o do_v without_o intervention_n of_o the_o architect_n messenger_n or_o executioner_n as_o well_o as_o that_o they_o be_v ipso_fw-la facto_fw-la ordain_v and_o consecrate_a who_o by_o the_o king_n authority_n be_v commend_v to_o the_o bishop_n to_o be_v ordain_v and_o consecrate_a especial_o see_v the_o king_n
what_o wisdom_n be_v it_o to_o forsake_v a_o church_n acknowledge_v to_o want_v nothing_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n endue_v with_o succession_n of_o bishop_n etc._n etc._n usque_fw-la ad_fw-la election_n or_o choice_n i_o answer_v yet_o may_v it_o be_v great_a wisdom_n to_o forsake_v a_o church_n not_o acknowledge_v to_o want_v nothing_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n but_o accuse_v and_o convict_v of_o many_o damnable_a error_n certain_o damnable_a to_o they_o who_o be_v convict_v of_o they_o have_v they_o still_o persist_v in_o they_o after_o their_o conviction_n though_o perhaps_o pardonable_a which_o be_v all_o that_o be_v acknowledge_v to_o such_o as_o ignorant_o continue_v in_o they_o a_o church_n vain_o arrogate_a without_o possibility_n of_o proof_n a_o perpetual_a succession_n of_o bishop_n hold_v always_o the_o same_o doctrine_n and_o with_o a_o ridiculous_a impudence_n pretend_v perpetual_a possession_n of_o all_o the_o world_n whereas_o the_o world_n know_v that_o a_o little_a before_o luther_n arise_v your_o church_n be_v confine_v to_o a_o part_n of_o a_o part_n of_o it_o last_o a_o church_n vain_o glory_v in_o the_o dependence_n of_o other_o church_n upon_o she_o which_o yet_o she_o support_v no_o more_o than_o those_o crouch_a antic_n which_o seem_v in_o great_a building_n to_o labour_n under_o the_o weight_n they_o bear_v do_v indeed_o support_v the_o fabric_n for_o a_o corrupt_a and_o false_a church_n may_v give_v authority_n to_o preach_v the_o truth_n and_o consequent_o against_o her_o own_o falsehood_n and_o corruption_n beside_o a_o false_a church_n may_v preserve_v the_o scripture_n true_a as_o now_o the_o old_a testament_n be_v preserve_v by_o the_o jew_n either_o not_o be_v arrive_v to_o that_o height_n of_o impiety_n as_o to_o attempt_v the_o corruption_n of_o it_o or_o not_o able_a to_o effect_v it_o or_o not_o perceive_v or_o not_o regard_v the_o opposition_n of_o it_o to_o her_o corruption_n and_o so_o we_o may_v receive_v from_o you_o lawful_a ordination_n and_o true_a scripture_n though_o you_o be_v a_o false_a church_n and_o receive_v the_o scripture_n from_o you_o though_o not_o from_o you_o alone_o i_o hope_v you_o can_v hinder_v we_o neither_o need_v we_o ask_v your_o leave_n to_o believe_v and_o obey_v they_o and_o this_o though_o you_o be_v a_o false_a church_n and_o receive_v the_o scripture_n from_o you_o though_o not_o from_o you_o alone_o i_o hope_v you_o can_v hinder_v we_o neither_o need_v we_o ask_v your_o leave_n to_o believe_v and_o obey_v they_o and_o this_o though_o you_o be_v a_o false_a church_n be_v enough_o to_o make_v we_o a_o true_a one_o as_o for_o a_o succession_n of_o man_n that_o hold_v with_o we_o in_o all_o point_n of_o doctrine_n it_o be_v a_o thing_n we_o need_v not_o and_o you_o have_v as_o little_a as_o we_o so_o that_o if_o we_o acknowledge_v that_o your_o church_n before_o luther_n be_v a_o true_a church_n it_o be_v not_o for_o any_o end_n for_o any_o dependence_n that_o we_o have_v upon_o you_o but_o because_o we_o conceive_v that_o in_o a_o charitable_a construction_n you_o may_v pass_v for_o a_o true_a church_n such_o a_o church_n and_o no_o better_a as_o you_o do_v sometime_o acknowledge_v protestant_n to_o be_v that_o be_v a_o company_n of_o man_n wherein_o some_o ignorant_a soul_n may_v be_v save_v so_o that_o in_o this_o balance_a of_o religion_n against_o religion_n and_o church_n against_o church_n it_o seem_v you_o have_v nothing_o of_o weight_n and_o moment_n to_o put_v into_o your_o scale_n nothing_o but_o smoke_n and_o wind_n vain_a shadow_n and_o fantastical_a pretence_n yet_o if_o protestant_n on_o the_o other_o side_n have_v nothing_o to_o put_v in_o their_o seal_n but_o those_o negative_a commendation_n which_o you_o be_v please_v to_o afford_v they_o nothing_o but_o no_o unity_n nor_o mean_n to_o procure_v it_o no_o far_o extent_n when_o luther_n arise_v than_o luther_n body_n no_o universality_n of_o time_n or_o place_n no_o visibility_n or_o be_v except_o only_o in_o your_o church_n no_o succession_n of_o person_n or_o doctrine_n no_o leader_n but_o luther_n in_o a_o quarrel_n begin_v upon_o no_o ground_n but_o passion_n no_o church_n no_o ordination_n no_o scripture_n but_o such_o as_o they_o receive_v from_o you_o if_o all_o this_o be_v true_a and_o this_o be_v all_o that_o can_v be_v plead_v for_o protestant_n possible_o with_o a_o allowance_n of_o three_o grain_n of_o partiality_n your_o scale_n may_v seem_v to_o turn_v but_o then_o if_o it_o may_v appear_v that_o part_n of_o these_o objection_n be_v false_o make_v against_o they_o the_o rest_n vain_o that_o whatsoever_o of_o truth_n be_v in_o these_o imputation_n be_v impertinent_a to_o this_o trial_n and_o whatsoever_o be_v pertinent_a be_v untrue_a and_o beside_o that_o plenty_n of_o good_a matter_n may_v be_v allege_v for_o protestant_n which_o be_v here_o dissemble_a then_o i_o hope_v our_o cause_n may_v be_v good_a notwithstanding_o these_o pretence_n 55._o i_o say_v then_o that_o want_v of_o universality_n of_o time_n and_o place_n the_o invisibility_n or_o not_o existence_n of_o the_o professor_n of_o protestant_a doctrine_n before_o luther_n luther_n being_n alone_o when_o he_o first_o oppose_v your_o church_n our_o have_v our_o church_n ordination_n scripture_n personal_a and_o yet_o not_o doctrinal_a succession_n from_o you_o be_v vain_a and_o impertinent_a allegation_n against_o the_o truth_n of_o our_o doctrine_n and_o church_n that_o the_o entire_a truth_n of_o christ_n without_o any_o mixture_n of_o error_n shall_v be_v profess_v or_o believe_v in_o all_o place_n at_o any_o time_n or_o in_o any_o place_n at_o all_o time_n be_v not_o a_o thing_n evident_a in_o reason_n neither_o have_v we_o any_o revelation_n for_o it_o and_o therefore_o in_o rely_v so_o confident_o on_o it_o you_o build_v your_o house_n upon_o the_o sand._n and_o what_o obligation_n we_o have_v either_o to_o be_v so_o peevish_a as_o to_o take_v nothing_o of_o you_o or_o so_o foolish_a as_o to_o take_v all_o i_o do_v not_o understand_v for_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o this_o be_v to_o be_v chooser_n and_o therefore_o heretic_n i_o tell_v you_o that_o though_o all_o heretic_n be_v chooser_n yet_o all_o chooser_n be_v not_o heretic_n otherwise_o they_o also_o which_o choose_v your_o religion_n must_v be_v heretic_n as_o for_o our_o want_a unity_n and_o mean_n of_o prove_v it_o luther_n oppose_a your_o church_n upon_o mere_a passion_n our_o follow_v private_a man_n rather_o than_o the_o catholic_n church_n the_o first_o and_o last_o be_v mere_a untruth_n for_o we_o want_v not_o unity_n nor_o mean_n to_o procure_v it_o in_o thing_n necessary_a plain_a place_n of_o scripture_n and_o such_o as_o need_v no_o interpreter_n be_v our_o mean_n to_o obtain_v it_o neither_o do_v we_o follow_v any_o private_a man_n but_o only_o the_o scripture_n the_o word_n of_o god_n as_o our_o rule_n and_o reason_n which_o be_v also_o the_o gift_n of_o god_n give_v to_o direct_v we_o in_o all_o our_o action_n in_o the_o use_n of_o this_o rule_n and_o then_o for_o luther_n oppose_a your_o church_n upon_o mere_a passion_n it_o be_v a_o thing_n i_o will_v not_o deny_v because_o i_o know_v not_o his_o heart_n and_o for_o the_o same_o reason_n you_o shall_v not_o have_v affirm_v it_o sure_o i_o be_o whether_o he_o oppose_v your_o church_n upon_o reason_n or_o no_o he_o have_v reason_n enough_o to_o oppose_v it_o and_o therefore_o if_o he_o do_v it_o upon_o passion_n we_o will_v follow_v he_o only_o in_o his_o action_n and_o not_o in_o his_o passion_n in_o his_o opposition_n not_o in_o the_o manner_n of_o it_o and_o then_o i_o presume_v you_o will_v have_v no_o reason_n to_o condemn_v we_o unless_o you_o will_v say_v that_o a_o good_a action_n can_v be_v do_v with_o reason_n because_o some_o body_n before_o we_o have_v do_v it_o upon_o passion_n you_o see_v then_o how_o imprudent_a you_o have_v be_v in_o the_o choice_n of_o your_o argument_n to_o prove_v protestant_n unwise_a in_o the_o choice_n of_o their_o religion_n 56._o it_o remain_v now_o that_o i_o shall_v show_v that_o many_o reason_n of_o moment_n may_v be_v allege_v for_o the_o justification_n of_o protestant_n which_o be_v dissemble_v by_o you_o and_o not_o put_v into_o the_o balance_n know_v then_o sir_n that_o when_o i_o say_v the_o religion_n of_o protestant_n be_v in_o prudence_n to_o be_v prefer_v before_o you_o as_o on_o the_o one_o side_n i_o do_v not_o understand_v by_o your_o religion_n the_o doctrine_n of_o bellarmine_n or_o baronius_n or_o any_o other_o private_a man_n among_o you_o nor_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o sorbon_n or_o of_o the_o jesuit_n or_o of_o the_o dominicans_n or_o of_o any_o other_o particular_a company_n among_o you_o but_o that_o wherein_o you_o all_o agree_v or_o profess_v to_o agree_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o
err_v person_n that_o lead_v good_a life_n shall_v be_v judge_v of_o charitable_o c._n 7.33_o a_o man_n may_v learn_v of_o the_o church_n to_o confute_v its_o error_n c._n 3.40_o we_o do_v well_o to_o forsake_v the_o roman_a church_n for_o her_o error_n though_o we_o afterward_o may_v err_v out_o of_o it_o c._n 5.63_o 64_o 65_o 67_o 87_o 92._o we_o must_v not_o adhere_v to_o a_o church_n in_o profess_v the_o least_o error_n lest_o we_o shall_v not_o profess_v with_o her_o necessary_a doctrine_n c._n 3.56_o the_o example_n of_o those_o that_o forsake_v popish_a error_n have_v deny_v necessary_a truth_n no_o argument_n against_o protestant_n c._n 3.63_o external_n communion_n of_o a_o church_n may_v be_v leave_v without_o leave_v a_o church_n c._n 5.32_o 45_o 47._o f._n whether_o faith_n be_v destroy_v by_o deny_v a_o truth_n testify_v by_o god_n ans_fw-fr pref._n 25._o c._n 6.49_o c._n 7.19_o the_o object_n of_o faith_n of_o two_o sort_n essential_a and_o occasional_a c._n 4.3_o certainty_n of_o faith_n less_o than_o the_o high_a degree_n may_v please_v god_n and_o save_v a_o man_n c._n 1.8_o &_o 6.3_o 4_o 5._o i'faith_o less_o than_o infallible_o certain_a may_v resist_v temptation_n &_o difficulty_n c._n 6.5_o there_o may_v be_v faith_n where_o the_o church_n and_o its_o infallibility_n beget_v it_o not_o c._n 2.49_o faith_n do_v not_o go_v before_o scripture_n but_o follow_v its_o efficacy_n c._n 2.48_o protestant_n have_v sufficient_a mean_n to_o know_v the_o certainty_n of_o their_o faith_n c._n 2.152_o in_o the_o roman_a church_n the_o last_o resolution_n of_o faith_n be_v into_o motive_n of_o credibility_n c._n 2.154_o the_o father_n declare_v their_o judgement_n of_o article_n but_o do_v not_o require_v their_o declaration_n to_o be_v receive_v under_o anathema_n c._n 4.18_o protestant_n do_v not_o forsake_v the_o church_n though_o they_o forksook_v its_o error_n c._n 3.11_o sufficient_a foundation_n for_o faith_n without_o infallible_a certainty_n c._n 6.6_o 45._o what_o protestant_n mean_v by_o fundamental_a doctrine_n c._n 4.52_o in_o what_o sense_n the_o church_n of_o rome_n err_v not_o fundamental_o ans_fw-fr pref._n 20._o to_o be_v unerring_a in_o fundamental_o can_v be_v say_v of_o no_o church_n of_o one_o denomination_n c._n 3.55_o to_o say_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v always_o a_o church_n not_o err_v in_o fundamental_o be_v to_o say_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v always_o a_o church_n c._n 3.55_o a_o church_n be_v not_o safe_a though_o retain_v fundamental_o when_o it_o build_v hay_n and_o stubble_n on_o the_o foundation_n and_o neglect_v to_o reform_v her_o error_n c._n 5.61_o ignorance_n of_o what_o point_v in_o particular_a be_v fundamental_a do_v not_o make_v it_o uncertain_a whether_o we_o do_v not_o err_v fundamental_o or_o differ_v in_o fundamental_o among_o ourselves_o c._n 7.14_o g._n the_o four_o gospel_n contain_v all_o necessary_a doctrine_n c._n 4.40_o 41_o 42_o 43._o a_o infallible_a guide_n not_o necessary_a for_o avoid_v heresy_n c._n 2.127_o the_o apostolic_a church_n a_o infallible_a guide_n to_o which_o we_o may_v resort_v c._n 3.69_o the_o church_n may_v not_o be_v a_o infallible_a guide_n in_o fundamental_o though_o it_o be_v infallible_a in_o fundamental_o c._n 3.39_o that_o the_o roman_a church_n shall_v be_v the_o only_a infallible_a guide_n of_o faith_n and_o the_o scripture_n say_v nothing_o concern_v it_o be_v incredible_a c._n 6.20_o h._n the_o difference_n betwixt_o heresy_n and_o schism_n c._n 5.51_o there_o be_v no_o new_a heresy_n no_o more_o than_o new_a article_n of_o faith_n c._n 4.18_o 37_o 38._o separation_n from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n no_o mark_n of_o heresy_n by_o the_o father_n who_o citation_n be_v answer_v c._n 6.22_o 23_o 24_o 25_o 26_o 27_o 2d_o 30_o 31_o 33_o 34._o no_o mark_n of_o heresy_n to_o want_v succession_n of_o bishop_n hold_v the_o same_o doctrine_n c._n 6.18_o 41._o we_o be_v not_o heretic_n for_o oppose_a thing_n propound_v by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n for_o divine_a truth_n c._n 6.11_o 12._o whether_o protestant_n schismatical_o cut_v off_o the_o roman_a church_n from_o hope_n of_o salvation_n c._n 5.38_o i._o the_o jewish_a church_n have_v no_o infallibility_n annex_v to_o it_o and_o if_o it_o have_v there_o be_v no_o necessity_n that_o the_o christian_a church_n shall_v have_v it_o c._n 2.141_o the_o impose_v a_o necessity_n of_o profess_v know_v error_n and_o practise_v know_v corruption_n be_v a_o just_a cause_n of_o separate_n from_o a_o church_n c._n 5.31_o 36_o 40_o 50_o 59_o 60_o 68_o 69._o indifferency_n to_o all_o religion_n false_o charge_v upon_o protestant_n ans_fw-fr pref._n 3._o &_o c._n 3.12_o the_o belief_n of_o the_o church_n infallibility_n make_v way_n for_o heresy_n pref._n 10._o a_o infallible_a guide_n not_o needful_a for_o avoid_v heresy_n c._n 2.127_o the_o church_n infallibility_n have_v not_o the_o same_o evidence_n as_o there_o be_v for_o the_o scripture_n c._n 3.30_o 31._o the_o church_n infallibility_n can_v no_o way_n be_v better_o assure_v to_o we_o than_o the_o scripture_n incorruption_n c._n 2.25_o &_o c._n 3.27_o the_o church_n infallibility_n be_v not_o prove_v from_o the_o promise_n that_o the_o gate_n of_o hell_n shall_v not_o prevail_v against_o it_o c._n 3.70_o nor_o from_o the_o promise_n of_o the_o spirit_n lead_v into_o all_o truth_n which_o be_v make_v only_o to_o the_o apostle_n c._n 3.71_o 72._o the_o church_n infallibility_n not_o prove_v from_o ephes_n c._n 11_o 12_o 13._o he_o give_v some_o apostle_n &c._n &c._n till_o we_o all_o come_v in_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o faith_n etc._n etc._n c._n 3.79_o 80._o that_o god_n have_v appoint_v a_o infallible_a judge_n of_o controversy_n because_o such_o a_o one_o be_v desirable_a and_o useful_a be_v a_o weak_a conclusion_n c._n 2._o from_o 128._o to_o 136._o inclusive_a infallibility_n in_o fundamental_o no_o warrant_n to_o adhere_v to_o a_o church_n in_o all_o that_o she_o propose_v c._n 3.57_o infallible_a interpretation_n of_o scripture_n vain_o boast_v of_o by_o the_o roman_a church_n c._n 2.93_o 94_o 95._o whether_o the_o denial_n of_o the_o church_n infallibility_n leave_v man_n to_o their_o private_a spirit_n reason_n and_o discourse_n and_o what_o be_v the_o harm_n of_o it_o pref._n 12.13_o &_o c._n 2.110_o traditional_a interpretation_n of_o scripture_n how_o ill_o preserve_v c._n 2.10_o interprecation_n of_o scripture_n which_o private_a man_n make_v for_o themselves_o not_o pretend_v to_o prescribe_v their_o sense_n to_o other_o though_o false_a or_o seditious_a endanger_v only_o themselves_o c._n 2.122_o allow_v the_o pope_n or_o roman_a church_n to_o be_v a_o decisive_a interpreter_n of_o christ_n law_n and_o she_o can_v evacuate_v they_o and_o make_v what_o law_n she_o please_v pref._n 10.11_o &_o c._n 2.1_o s._n irenaeus_n account_n of_o tradition_n favour_v not_o popery_n c._n 2.144_o 145_o 146._o his_o say_n that_o no_o reformation_n can_v countervail_v the_o danger_n of_o a_o schism_n explain_v c._n 5.11_o a_o live_a judge_n to_o end_v controversy_n about_o the_o sense_n of_o scripture_n not_o necessary_a c._n 2.12_o 13._o if_o christ_n have_v intend_v such_o a_o judge_n in_o religion_n he_o will_v have_v name_v he_o which_o he_o have_v not_o do_v c._n 2.23_o c._n 3.69_o c._n 6.20_o though_o a_o live_a judge_n be_v necessary_a to_o determine_v civil_a cause_n yet_o not_o necessary_a for_o religious_a cause_n c._n 2._o from_o 14._o to_o 22._o inclus_fw-la if_o there_o be_v a_o judge_n of_o controversy_n no_o necessity_n it_o shall_v be_v the_o roman_a church_n c._n 3.69_o roman_n catholic_n set_v up_o as_o many_o judge_n in_o religion_n as_o protestant_n c._n 2.116_o 118_o 153._o a_o judgement_n of_o discretion_n must_v be_v allow_v to_o every_o man_n for_o himself_o about_o religion_n c._n 2.11_o the_o protestant_a doctrine_n of_o justification_n take_v altogether_o not_o a_o licentious_a doctrine_n c._n 7.30_o when_o they_o say_v they_o be_v justify_v by_o faith_n alone_o yet_o they_o make_v good_a work_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n c._n 7.30_o k._n our_o obligation_n to_o know_v any_o divine_a truth_n arise_v from_o god_n manifest_a reveal_n it_o c._n 3.19_o l._n how_o we_o be_v assure_v in_o what_o language_n the_o scripture_n be_v uncorrupted_a c._n 2.55_o 56_o 57_o to_o leave_v a_o church_n and_o to_o leave_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o a_o church_n be_v not_o the_o same_o thing_n c._n 5.32_o 45_o 47._o luther_n separation_n not_o like_a that_o of_o the_o donatist_n and_o why_o c._n 5.33.101_o luther_n and_o his_o follower_n do_v not_o divide_v from_o the_o whole_a church_n be_v a_o part_n of_o it_o but_o only_o reform_v themselves_o forsake_v the_o corrupt_a part_n c._n 5.56_o luther_n oppose_v himself_n to_o all_o in_o his_o reformation_n no_o objection_n against_o he_o c._n 5.89_o 90._o we_o be_v not_o bind_v to_o justify_v all_o that_o luther_n say_v
diligence_n to_o find_v the_o truth_n do_v yet_o miss_v of_o it_o and_o fall_v into_o error_n there_o be_v no_o danger_n in_o it_o they_o that_o err_v and_o they_o that_o do_v not_o err_v may_v both_o be_v save_v so_o that_o those_o place_n which_o contain_v thing_n necessary_a and_o wherein_o error_n be_v dangerous_a need_v no_o infallible_a interpreter_n because_o they_o be_v plain_a and_o those_o that_o be_v obscure_a need_n none_o because_o they_o contain_v not_o thing_n necessary_a neither_o be_v error_n in_o they_o dangerous_a the_o lawmaker_n speak_v in_o the_o law_n i_o grant_v it_o be_v no_o more_o easy_o understand_v than_o the_o law_n itself_o for_o his_o speech_n be_v nothing_o else_o but_o the_o law_n i_o grant_v it_o very_o necessary_a that_o beside_o the_o lawmaker_n speak_v in_o the_o law_n there_o shall_v be_v other_o judge_n to_o determine_v civil_a and_o criminal_a controversy_n and_o to_o give_v every_o man_n that_o justice_n which_o the_o law_n allow_v he_o but_o your_o argument_n draw_v from_o hence_o to_o show_v a_o necessity_n of_o a_o visible_a judge_n in_o controversy_n of_o religion_n i_o say_v be_v sophistical_a and_o that_o for_o many_o reason_n 14._o first_o because_o the_o variety_n of_o civil_a case_n be_v infinite_a and_o therefore_o there_o can_v be_v possible_o law_n enough_o provide_v for_o the_o determination_n of_o they_o and_o therefore_o there_o must_v be_v a_o judge_n to_o supply_v out_o of_o the_o principle_n of_o reason_n the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o law_n where_o it_o be_v defective_a but_o the_o scripture_n we_o say_v be_v a_o perfect_a rule_n of_o faith_n and_o therefore_o need_v no_o supply_n of_o the_o defect_n of_o it_o 15._o second_o to_o execute_v the_o letter_n of_o the_o law_n according_a to_o rigour_n will_v be_v many_o time_n unjust_a and_o therefore_o there_o be_v need_n of_o a_o judge_n to_o moderate_v it_o whereof_o in_o religion_n there_o be_v no_o use_n at_o all_o 16._o three_o in_o civil_a and_o criminal_a cause_n the_o party_n have_v for_o the_o most_o part_n so_o much_o interest_n and_o very_o often_o so_o little_a honesty_n that_o they_o will_v not_o submit_v to_o a_o law_n though_o never_o so_o plain_a if_o it_o be_v against_o they_o or_o will_v not_o see_v it_o to_o be_v against_o they_o though_o it_o be_v so_o never_o so_o plain_o whereas_o if_o man_n be_v honest_a and_o the_o law_n be_v plain_a and_o extend_v to_o all_o case_n there_o will_v be_v little_a need_n of_o judge_n now_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n when_o the_o question_n be_v whether_o every_o man_n be_v a_o fit_a judge_n and_o chooser_n for_o himself_o we_o suppose_v man_n honest_a and_o such_o as_o understand_v the_o difference_n between_o a_o moment_n and_o eternity_n and_o such_o man_n we_o conceive_v will_v think_v it_o high_o concern_v they_o to_o be_v of_o the_o true_a religion_n but_o nothing_o at_o all_o that_o this_o or_o that_o religion_n shall_v be_v the_o true_a and_o then_o we_o suppose_v that_o all_o the_o necessary_a point_n of_o religion_n be_v plain_a and_o easy_a and_o consequent_o every_o man_n in_o this_o cause_n to_o be_v a_o competent_a judge_n for_o himself_o because_o it_o concern_v himself_o to_o judge_v right_a as_o much_o as_o eternal_a happiness_n be_v worth_a and_o if_o through_o his_o own_o default_n he_o judge_v amiss_o he_o alone_o shall_v suffer_v for_o it_o 17._o four_o in_o civil_a controversy_n we_o be_v oblige_v only_o to_o external_a passive_a obedience_n and_o not_o to_o a_o internal_a and_o active_a we_o be_v bind_v to_o obey_v the_o sentence_n of_o the_o judge_n or_o not_o to_o resist_v it_o but_o not_o always_o to_o believe_v it_o just_a but_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n such_o a_o judge_n be_v require_v who_o we_o shall_v be_v oblige_v to_o believe_v to_o have_v judge_v right_o so_o that_o in_o civil_a controversy_n every_o honest_a understand_a man_n be_v fit_a to_o be_v a_o judge_n but_o in_o religion_n none_o but_o he_o that_o be_v infallible_a 18._o five_o in_o civil_a cause_n there_o be_v mean_n and_o power_n when_o the_o judge_n have_v decree_v to_o compel_v man_n to_o obey_v his_o sentence_n otherwise_o i_o believe_v law_n alone_o will_v be_v to_o as_o much_o purpose_n for_o the_o end_n of_o difference_n as_o law_n and_o judge_n both_o but_o all_o the_o power_n in_o the_o world_n be_v neither_o fit_a to_o convince_v nor_o able_a to_o compel_v a_o man_n conscience_n to_o consent_v to_o any_o thing_n worldly_n terror_n may_v prevail_v so_o far_o as_o to_o make_v man_n profess_v a_o religion_n which_o they_o believe_v not_o such_o man_n i_o mean_v who_o know_v not_o that_o there_o be_v a_o heaven_n provide_v for_o martyr_n and_o a_o hell_n for_o those_o that_o dissemble_v such_o truth_n as_o be_v necessary_a to_o be_v profess_v but_o to_o force_v either_o any_o man_n to_o believe_v what_o he_o believe_v not_o or_o any_o honest_a man_n to_o dissemble_v what_o he_o do_v believe_v if_o god_n command_v he_o to_o profess_v it_o or_o to_o profess_v what_o he_o do_v not_o believe_v all_o the_o power_n in_o the_o world_n be_v too_o weak_a with_o all_o the_o power_n of_o hell_n to_o assist_v they_o 19_o six_o in_o civil_a controversy_n the_o case_n can_v be_v so_o put_v but_o there_o may_v be_v a_o judge_n to_o end_v it_o who_o be_v not_o a_o party_n in_o controversy_n of_o religion_n it_o be_v in_o a_o manner_n impossible_a to_o be_v avoid_v but_o the_o judge_n must_v be_v a_o party_n for_o this_o must_v be_v the_o first_o whether_o he_o be_v a_o judge_n or_o no_o and_o in_o that_o he_o must_v be_v a_o party_n sure_o i_o be_o the_o pope_n in_o the_o controversy_n of_o our_o time_n be_v a_o chief_a party_n for_o it_o high_o concern_v he_o even_o as_o much_o as_o his_o popedom_n be_v worth_a not_o to_o yield_v any_o one_o point_n of_o his_o religion_n to_o be_v erroneous_a and_o he_o be_v a_o man_n subject_n to_o like_a passion_n with_o other_o man_n and_o therefore_o we_o may_v just_o decline_v his_o sentence_n for_o fear_v temporal_a respect_n shall_v either_o blind_v his_o judgement_n or_o make_v he_o pronounce_v against_o it_o 20._o seven_o in_o civil_a controversy_n it_o be_v impossible_a titius_n shall_v hold_v the_o land_n in_o question_n and_o sempronius_n too_o and_o therefore_o either_o the_o plaintiff_n must_v injure_v the_o defendant_n by_o disquiet_v his_o possession_n or_o the_o defendant_n wrong_v the_o plaintiff_n by_o keep_v his_o right_n from_o he_o but_o in_o controversy_n of_o religion_n the_o case_n be_v otherwise_o i_o may_v hold_v my_o opinion_n and_o do_v you_o no_o wrong_n and_o you_o you_o and_o do_v i_o none_o nay_o we_o may_v both_o of_o we_o hold_v our_o opinion_n and_o yet_o do_v ourselves_o no_o harm_n provide_v the_o difference_n be_v not_o touch_v any_o thing_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o that_o we_o love_v truth_n so_o well_o as_o to_o be_v diligent_a to_o inform_v our_o conscience_n and_o constant_a in_o follow_v it_o 21._o eight_o for_o the_o end_n of_o civil_a controversy_n who_o do_v not_o see_v it_o be_v absolute_o necessary_a that_o not_o only_a judge_n shall_v be_v appoint_v but_o that_o it_o shall_v be_v know_v and_o unquestioned_a who_o they_o be_v thus_o all_o the_o judge_n of_o our_o land_n be_v know_v man_n know_v to_o be_v judge_n and_o no_o man_n can_v doubt_v or_o question_n but_o these_o be_v the_o men._n otherwise_o if_o it_o be_v a_o disputable_a thing_n who_o be_v these_o judge_n and_o they_o have_v no_o certain_a warrant_n for_o their_o authority_n but_o only_o some_o topical_a congruity_n will_v not_o any_o man_n say_v such_o judge_n in_o all_o likelihood_n will_v rather_o multiply_v controversy_n then_o end_v they_o 22._o nine_o and_o last_o for_o the_o decide_n of_o civil_a controversy_n man_n may_v appoint_v themselves_o a_o judge_n but_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n this_o office_n may_v be_v give_v to_o none_o but_o who_o god_n have_v design_v for_o it_o who_o do_v not_o always_o give_v we_o those_o thing_n which_o we_o conceive_v most_o expedient_a for_o ourselves_o 23._o so_o likewise_o if_o our_o saviour_n the_o king_n of_o heaven_n have_v intend_v that_o all_o controversy_n in_o religion_n shall_v be_v by_o some_o visible_a judge_n final_o determine_v who_o can_v doubt_v but_o in_o plain_a term_n he_o will_v have_v express_v himself_o about_o this_o matter_n he_o will_v have_v say_v plain_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n i_o have_v appoint_v to_o decide_v all_o emergent_a controversy_n for_o that_o our_o saviour_n design_v the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n to_o this_o office_n and_o yet_o will_v not_o say_v so_o nor_o cause_n it_o to_o be_v write_v ad_fw-la rei_fw-la memoriam_fw-la by_o any_o of_o the_o evangelist_n or_o apostle_n so_o much_o as_o once_o but_o leave_v it_o to_o
as_o we_o never_o go_v about_o to_o arrogate_v to_o ourselves_o that_o infallibility_n or_o absolute_a authority_n which_o we_o take_v away_o from_o you_o but_o if_o you_o will_v have_v speak_v to_o the_o purpose_n you_o shall_v have_v say_v that_o in_o follow_v she_o you_o shall_v soon_o have_v be_v excuse_v than_o in_o cleave_v to_o the_o scripture_n and_o to_o god_n himself_o 63._o whereas_o you_o say_v the_o fearful_a example_n of_o innumerable_a person_n who_o forsake_v the_o church_n upon_o pretence_n of_o her_o error_n have_v fail_v even_o in_o fundamental_a point_n aught_o to_o deter_v all_o christian_n from_o oppose_v she_o in_o any_o one_o doctrine_n or_o practice_n this_o be_v just_a as_o if_o you_o shall_v say_v divers_a man_n have_v fall_v into_o scylla_n with_o go_v too_o far_o from_o charybdis_n be_v sure_a therefore_o you_o keep_v close_o to_o charybdis_n divers_a leave_v prodigality_n have_v fall_v into_o covetousness_n therefore_o be_v you_o constant_a to_o prodigality_n many_o have_v fall_v from_o worship_v god_n perverse_o and_o foolish_o not_o to_o worship_v he_o at_o all_o from_o worship_v many_o god_n to_o worship_v none_o this_o therefore_o aught_o to_o deter_v man_n from_o leave_v superstition_n or_o idolatry_n for_o fear_v of_o fall_v into_o atheism_n and_o impiety_n this_o be_v your_o counsel_n and_o sophistry_n but_o god_n say_v clean_a contrary_n take_v heed_n you_o swerve_v not_o either_o to_o the_o right_a hand_n or_o to_o the_o left_a you_o must_v not_o do_v evil_a that_o good_a may_v come_v thereon_o therefore_o neither_o that_o you_o may_v avoid_v a_o great_a evil_n you_o must_v not_o be_v obstinate_a in_o a_o certain_a error_n for_o fear_v of_o a_o uncertain_a what_o if_o some_o forsake_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v forsake_v fundamental_a truth_n be_v this_o because_o they_o forsake_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n no_o sure_a this_o be_v non_fw-la causa_fw-la pro_fw-la causa_fw-la for_o else_o all_o that_o have_v forsake_v that_o church_n shall_v have_v do_v so_o which_o we_o say_v they_o have_v not_o but_o because_o they_o go_v too_o far_o from_o she_o the_o golden_a mean_n the_o narrow_a way_n be_v hard_o to_o be_v find_v and_o hard_o to_o be_v keep_v hard_o but_o not_o impossible_a hard_o but_o yet_o you_o must_v not_o please_v yourself_o out_o of_o it_o though_o you_o err_v on_o the_o right_a hand_n though_o you_o offend_v on_o the_o mild_a part_n for_o this_o be_v the_o only_a way_n that_o lead_v to_o life_n and_o few_o there_o be_v that_o find_v it_o it_o be_v true_a if_o we_o say_v there_o be_v no_o danger_n in_o be_v of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o there_o be_v danger_n in_o leave_v it_o it_o be_v madness_n to_o persuade_v any_o man_n to_o leave_v it_o but_o we_o protest_v and_o proclaim_v the_o contrary_a and_o that_o we_o have_v very_o little_a hope_n of_o their_o salvation_n who_o either_o out_o of_o negligence_n in_o seek_v the_o truth_n or_o unwillingness_n to_o find_v it_o live_v and_o die_v in_o the_o error_n and_o impiety_n of_o that_o church_n and_o therefore_o can_v but_o conceive_v those_o fear_n to_o be_v most_o foolish_a and_o ridiculous_a which_o persuade_v man_n to_o be_v constant_a in_o one_o way_n to_o hell_n lest_o happy_o if_o they_o leave_v it_o they_o shall_v fall_v into_o another_o 64._o obj._n some_o protestant_n pretend_v to_o reform_v the_o church_n be_v come_v to_o affirm_v that_o she_o perish_v for_o many_o age_n which_o other_o can_v deny_v to_o be_v a_o fundamental_a error_n against_o the_o article_n of_o the_o creed_n i_o believe_v the_o catholic_n church_n and_o affirm_v the_o donatist_n err_v fundamental_o in_o confine_v it_o to_o africa_n to_o this_o i_o answer_v first_o that_o the_o error_n of_o the_o donatist_n be_v not_o that_o they_o hold_v it_o possible_a that_o some_o or_o many_o or_o most_o part_n of_o christendom_n may_v fall_v away_o from_o christianity_n and_o that_o the_o church_n may_v loose_v much_o of_o her_o amplitude_n and_o be_v contract_v to_o a_o narrow_a compass_n in_o comparison_n of_o her_o former_a extent_n which_o be_v prove_v not_o only_o possible_a but_o certain_a by_o irrefragable_a experience_n for_o who_o know_v not_o that_o gentilism_n and_o mahumetism_n man_n wickedness_n deserve_v it_o and_o god_n providence_n permit_v it_o have_v prevail_v to_o the_o utter_a extirpation_n of_o christianity_n upon_o far_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o world_n and_o s._n austin_n when_o he_o be_v out_o of_o the_o heat_n of_o disputation_n confess_v the_o militant_a church_n to_o be_v like_o the_o moon_n sometime_o increase_v and_o sometime_o decrease_a this_o therefore_o be_v no_o error_n in_o the_o donatist_n that_o they_o hold_v it_o possible_a that_o the_o church_n from_o a_o large_a extent_n may_v be_v contradict_v to_o a_o lesser_a or_o that_o they_o hold_v it_o possible_a to_o be_v reduce_v to_o africa_n for_o why_o not_o to_o africa_n then_o as_o well_o as_o within_o these_o few_o age_n you_o pretend_v it_o be_v to_o europe_n but_o their_o error_n be_v that_o they_o hold_v the_o facto_fw-la this_o be_v do_v when_o they_o have_v no_o just_a ground_n or_o reason_n to_o do_v so_o and_o so_o upon_o a_o vain_a pretence_n which_o they_o can_v not_o justify_v separate_v themselves_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o all_o other_o part_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o they_o require_v it_o as_o a_o necessary_a condition_n to_o make_v a_o man_n a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n that_o he_o shall_v be_v of_o their_o communion_n and_o divide_v himself_o from_o all_o other_o communion_n from_o which_o they_o be_v divide_v which_o be_v a_o condition_n both_o unnecessary_a and_o unlawful_a to_o be_v require_v and_o therefore_o the_o exact_v of_o it_o be_v direct_o opposite_a to_o the_o church_n catholicism_n in_o the_o very_a same_o nature_n with_o their_o error_n who_o require_v circumcision_n and_o the_o keep_n of_o the_o law_n of_o moses_n as_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n for_o whosoever_o require_v hard_a or_o heavy_a condition_n of_o man_n than_o god_n require_v of_o they_o he_o it_o be_v that_o be_v proper_o a_o enemy_n of_o the_o church_n universality_n by_o hinder_v either_o man_n or_o country_n from_o adjoin_v themselves_o to_o it_o which_o be_v it_o not_o for_o these_o unnecessary_a and_o therefore_o unlawful_a condition_n in_o probability_n will_v have_v make_v they_o member_n of_o it_o and_o see_v the_o present_a church_n of_o rome_n persuade_v man_n they_o be_v as_o good_a for_o any_o hope_n of_o salvation_n they_o have_v not_o to_o be_v christian_n as_o not_o to_o be_v roman_a catholic_n believe_v nothing_o at_o all_o as_o not_o to_o believe_v all_o which_o they_o impose_v upon_o they_o be_v absolute_o out_o of_o the_o church_n communion_n as_o be_v out_o of_o their_o communion_n or_o be_v in_o any_o other_o whether_o they_o be_v not_o guilty_a of_o the_o same_o crime_n with_o the_o donatist_n and_o those_o zelots_n of_o the_o moysaicall_a law_n i_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o judgement_n of_o those_o that_o understand_v reason_n this_o be_v sufficient_a to_o show_v the_o vanity_n of_o this_o argument_n but_o i_o add_v moreover_o that_o you_o neither_o have_v name_v those_o protestant_n who_o hold_v the_o church_n to_o have_v perish_v for_o many_o age_n who_o perhaps_o hold_v not_o the_o destruction_n but_o the_o corruption_n of_o the_o church_n not_o that_o the_o true_a church_n but_o that_o the_o pure_a church_n perish_v or_o rather_o that_o the_o church_n perish_v not_o from_o its_o life_n and_o existence_n but_o from_o its_o purity_n and_o integrity_n or_o perhaps_o from_o its_o splendour_n and_o visibility_n neither_o have_v you_o prove_v by_o any_o one_o reason_n but_o only_o affirm_v it_o to_o be_v a_o fundamental_a error_n to_o hold_v that_o the_o church_n militant_a may_v possible_o be_v drive_v out_o of_o the_o world_n and_o abolish_v for_o a_o time_n from_o the_o face_n of_o the_o earth_n 69._o ad_fw-la §_o 23._o in_o all_o these_o text_n of_o scripture_n which_o be_v here_o allege_v in_o this_o last_o section_n of_o this_o chapter_n or_o in_o any_o one_o of_o they_o or_o in_o any_o other_o do_v god_n say_v clear_o and_o plain_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o that_o society_n of_o christian_n which_o adhere_v to_o he_o shall_v be_v ever_o the_o infallible_a guide_n of_o faith_n you_o will_v confess_v i_o presume_v he_o do_v not_o and_o will_v pretend_v it_o be_v not_o necessary_a yet_o if_o the_o king_n shall_v tell_v we_o the_o lord-keeper_n shall_v judge_v such_o and_o such_o cause_n but_o shall_v either_o not_o tell_v we_o at_o all_o or_o tell_v we_o but_o doubtful_o who_o shall_v be_v lord-keeper_n shall_v we_o be_v any_o thing_n the_o near_a for_o he_o to_o a_o end_n of_o contention_n nay_o rather_o will_v not_o the_o dissension_n about_o the_o person_n who_o it_o
obedience_n to_o all_o court_n of_o civil_a judicature_n yet_o he_o say_v not_o they_o be_v bind_v to_o think_v that_o determination_n lawful_a and_o that_o sentence_n just_a nay_o it_o be_v plain_a he_o say_v that_o they_o must_v do_v according_a to_o the_o judge_n sentence_n though_o in_o their_o private_a opinion_n it_o seem_v unjust_a as_o if_o i_o be_v wrongful_o cast_v in_o a_o suit_n at_o law_n and_o sentence_v to_o pay_v a_o hundred_o pound_n i_o be_o bind_v to_o pay_v the_o money_n yet_o i_o know_v no_o law_n of_o god_n or_o man_n that_o bind_v i_o in_o conscience_n to_o acquit_v the_o judge_n of_o error_n in_o his_o sentence_n neither_o be_v there_o any_o necessity_n as_o you_o say_v that_o he_o must_v either_o acknowledge_v the_o universal_a infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n or_o drive_v man_n into_o dissemble_v against_o their_o conscience_n see_v nothing_o hinder_v but_o i_o may_v obey_v the_o sentence_n of_o a_o judge_n pay_v the_o money_n he_o award_v i_o to_o pay_v or_o forego_v the_o house_n or_o land_n which_o he_o have_v judge_v from_o i_o and_o yet_o withal_o plain_o profess_v that_o in_o my_o conscience_n i_o conceive_v his_o judgement_n erroneous_a to_o which_o purpose_n they_o have_v a_o say_n in_o france_n that_o whosoever_o be_v cast_v in_o any_o cause_n have_v liberty_n for_o ten_o day_n after_o to_o rail_v at_o his_o judge_n 110._o but_o observe_v i_o pray_v that_o mr._n hooker_n say_v not_o absolute_o and_o in_o all_o their_o cause_n but_o only_o in_o litigious_a cause_n of_o the_o quality_n of_o those_o whereof_o he_o there_o treat_v in_o such_o matter_n as_o have_v plain_a scripture_n or_o reason_n neither_o for_o they_o nor_o against_o they_o and_o wherein_o man_n be_v persuade_v this_o or_o that_o way_n upon_o their_o own_o only_a probable_a collection_n in_o such_o case_n this_o persuasion_n say_v he_o ought_v to_o be_v full_o settle_v in_o man_n heart_n that_o the_o will_n of_o god_n be_v that_o they_o shall_v not_o disobey_v the_o certain_a command_n of_o their_o lawful_a superior_n upon_o uncertain_a ground_n but_o do_v that_o which_o the_o sentence_n of_o judicial_a and_o final_a decision_n shall_v determine_v for_o the_o purpose_n a_o question_n there_o be_v whether_o a_o surplice_n may_v be_v wear_v in_o divine_a service_n the_o authority_n of_o superior_n enjoin_v this_o ceremony_n and_o neither_o scripture_n nor_o reason_n plain_o forbid_v it_o sempronius_z notwithstanding_o be_v by_o some_o inducement_n which_o he_o confess_v to_o be_v only_o probable_a lead_v to_o this_o persuasion_n that_o the_o thing_n be_v unlawful_a the_o quaere_fw-la be_v whether_o he_o ought_v for_o matter_n of_o practice_n follow_v the_o injunction_n of_o authority_n or_o his_o own_o private_a and_o only_a probable_a persuasion_n m._n hooker_n resolve_v for_o the_o former_a upon_o this_o ground_n that_o the_o certain_a command_n of_o the_o church_n we_o live_v in_o be_v to_o be_v obey_v in_o all_o thing_n not_o certain_o unlawful_a as_o for_o require_v a_o blind_a and_o a_o unlimited_a obedience_n to_o ecclesiastical_a decision_n universal_o and_o in_o all_o case_n even_o when_o plain_a text_n or_o reason_n seem_v to_o control_v they_o m._n hooker_n be_v as_o far_o from_o make_v such_o a_o idol_n of_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n as_o the_o puritan_n who_o he_o write_v against_o i_o grant_v say_v he_o that_o proof_n derive_v from_o the_o authority_n of_o man_n judgement_n be_v not_o able_a to_o work_v that_o assurance_n which_o do_v grow_v by_o a_o strong_a proof_n and_o therefore_o although_o ten_o thousand_o general_a council_n will_v set_v down_o one_o and_o the_o same_o definitive_a sentence_n concern_v any_o point_n of_o religion_n whatsoever_o yet_o one_o demonstrative_a reason_n allege_v or_o one_o manifest_a testimony_n cite_v from_o the_o word_n of_o god_n himself_o to_o the_o contrary_a can_v not_o choose_v but_o over-weigh_a they_o all_o in_o as_o much_o as_o for_o they_o to_o be_v deceive_v it_o be_v not_o impossible_a it_o be_v that_o demonstrative_a reason_n or_o divine_a testimony_n shall_v deceive_v and_o again_o whereas_o it_o be_v think_v that_o especial_o with_o the_o church_n and_o those_o that_o be_v call_v man_n authority_n ought_v not_o to_o prevail_v it_o must_v and_o do_v prevail_v even_o with_o they_o yea_o with_o they_o especial_o as_o far_o as_o equity_n require_v and_o far_o we_o maintain_v it_o not_o for_o man_n to_o be_v tie_v and_o lead_v by_o authority_n as_o it_o be_v with_o a_o kind_n of_o captivity_n of_o judgement_n and_o though_o there_o be_v reason_n to_o the_o contrary_a not_o to_o listen_v to_o it_o but_o to_o follow_v like_o beast_n the_o first_o in_o the_o herd_n this_o be_v brutish_a again_o that_o authority_n of_o man_n shall_v prevail_v with_o man_n either_o against_o or_o above_o reason_n be_v no_o part_n of_o our_o belief_n company_n of_o learned_a man_n be_v they_o never_o so_o great_a and_o reverend_a be_v to_o yield_v unto_o reason_n the_o weight_n whereof_o be_v no_o whit_n prejudice_v by_o the_o simplicity_n of_o his_o person_n which_o do_v allege_v it_o but_o be_v find_v to_o be_v sound_a and_o good_a the_o bare_a opinion_n of_o man_n to_o the_o contrary_a must_v of_o necessity_n stoop_v and_o give_v place_n thus_o m._n hooker_n in_o his_o seven_o section_n of_o his_o second_o book_n 112._o ad_fw-la §_o 43._o the_o next_o section_n have_v in_o it_o some_o objection_n against_o luther_n person_n but_o none_o against_o his_o cause_n which_o alone_o i_o have_v undertake_v to_o justify_v and_o therefore_o i_o pass_v it_o over_o yet_o this_o i_o promise_v that_o when_o you_o or_o any_o of_o your_o side_n shall_v publish_v a_o good_a defence_n of_o all_o that_o your_o pope_n have_v say_v and_o do_v especial_o of_o they_o who_o bellarmine_n believe_v in_o such_o a_o long_a train_n to_o have_v go_v to_o the_o devil_n than_o you_o shall_v receive_v a_o ample_a apology_n for_o all_o the_o action_n and_o word_n of_o luther_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n i_o hope_v all_o reasonable_a and_o equitable_a judge_n will_v esteem_v it_o not_o unpardonable_a in_o the_o great_a and_o heroical_a spirit_n of_o luther_n if_o be_v opose_v and_o perpetual_o bait_v with_o a_o world_n of_o fury_n he_o be_v transport_v sometime_o and_o make_v somewhat_o furious_a as_o for_o you_o i_o desire_v you_o to_o be_v quiet_a and_o to_o demand_v no_o more_o whether_o god_n be_v wont_a to_o send_v such_o fury_n to_o preach_v the_o gospel_n unless_o you_o desire_v to_o hear_v of_o your_o kill_n of_o king_n massacre_a of_o peoples_n blow_v up_o of_o parliament_n and_o have_v a_o mind_n to_o be_v ask_v whether_o it_o be_v probable_a that_o that_o shall_v be_v god_n cause_n which_o need_v to_o be_v maintain_v by_o such_o devilish_a mean_n chap._n vi_o the_o answer_n to_o the_o six_o chapter_n show_v that_o protestant_n be_v not_o heretic_n ad_fw-la §_o 1._o he_o that_o will_v accuse_v any_o one_o man_n much_o more_o any_o great_a multitude_n of_o man_n of_o any_o great_a and_o horrible_a crime_n shall_v in_o all_o reason_n and_o justice_n take_v care_n that_o the_o greatness_n of_o his_o evidence_n do_v equal_a if_o not_o exceed_v the_o quality_n of_o the_o crime_n and_o such_o a_o accusation_n you_o will_v here_o make_v show_n of_o by_o pretend_v first_o to_o lay_v such_o ground_n of_o it_o as_o be_v either_o already_o prove_v or_o else_o yield_v on_o all_o side_n and_o after_o to_o raise_v a_o firm_a and_o stable_a structure_n of_o convince_a argument_n upon_o they_o but_o both_o these_o i_o find_v to_o be_v mere_a and_o vain_a pretence_n and_o have_v consider_v this_o chapter_n also_o without_o prejudice_n or_o passion_n as_o i_o do_v the_o former_a i_o be_o enforce_v by_o the_o light_n of_o truth_n to_o pronounce_v your_o whole_a discourse_n a_o paint_a and_o ruinous_a building_n upon_o a_o weak_a and_o sandy_a foundation_n 2._o ad_fw-la §_o 2_o 3._o first_o for_o your_o ground_n a_o great_a part_n of_o they_o be_v false_o say_v to_o be_v either_o prove_v or_o grant_v it_o be_v true_a indeed_o that_o man_n by_o his_o natural_a wit_n and_o industry_n can_v never_o have_v attain_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o god_n will_v to_o give_v he_o a_o supernatural_a and_o eternal_a happiness_n nor_o of_o the_o mean_n by_o which_o his_o pleasure_n be_v to_o bestow_v this_o happiness_n upon_o he_o and_o therefore_o your_o first_o ground_n be_v good_a that_o it_o be_v requisite_a his_o understanding_n shall_v be_v enable_v to_o apprehend_v that_o end_n and_o mean_n by_o a_o knowledge_n supernatural_a i_o say_v this_o be_v good_a if_o you_o mean_v by_o knowledge_n a_o apprehension_n or_o belief_n 3._o but_o then_o whereas_o you_o add_v that_o if_o a_o such_o a_o knowledge_n be_v no_o more_o than_o probable_a it_o can_v not_o be_v able_a sufficient_o to_o overbear_v our_o
or_o ill_a opinion_n do_v gather_v otherwise_o than_o they_o ought_v for_o to_o this_o church_n for_o a_o more_o powerful_a principality_n it_o be_v necessary_a that_o all_o church_n resort_n that_o be_v all_o faithful_a people_n undique_fw-la of_o what_o place_n soever_o in_o which_o roman_a church_n the_o tradition_n from_o the_o apostle_n have_v always_o be_v conserve_v from_o those_o who_o be_v undique_fw-la every_o where_n answ_n though_o at_o the_o first_o hear_v the_o glorious_a attribute_n here_o give_v and_o that_o just_o to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n the_o confound_a heretic_n with_o her_o tradition_n and_o say_v it_o be_v necessary_a for_o all_o church_n to_o resort_v to_o she_o may_v sound_v like_o argument_n for_o you_o yet_o he_o that_o be_v attentive_a i_o hope_v will_v easy_o discover_v that_o it_o may_v be_v good_a and_o rational_a in_o irenaeus_n have_v to_o do_v with_o heretic_n who_o somewhat_o like_o those_o who_o will_v be_v the_o only_a catholic_n decline_v a_o trial_n by_o scripture_n as_o not_o contain_v the_o truth_n of_o christ_n perfect_o and_o not_o fit_a to_o decide_v controversy_n without_o recourse_n to_o tradition_n i_o say_v he_o will_v easy_o perceive_v that_o it_o may_v be_v rational_a in_o irenaeus_n to_o urge_v they_o with_o any_o tradition_n of_o more_o credit_n than_o their_o own_o especial_o a_o tradition_n consonant_a to_o scripture_n and_o even_o contain_v in_o it_o and_o yet_o that_o it_o may_v be_v irrational_a in_o you_o to_o urge_v we_o who_o do_v not_o decline_v scripture_n but_o appeal_n to_o it_o as_o a_o perfect_a rule_n of_o faith_n with_o a_o tradition_n which_o we_o pretend_v be_v many_o way_n repugnant_a to_o scripture_n and_o repugnant_a to_o a_o tradition_n far_o more_o general_a than_o itself_o which_o give_v testimony_n to_o scripture_n and_o last_o repugnant_a to_o itself_o as_o give_v attestation_n both_o to_o scripture_n and_o to_o doctrine_n plain_o contrary_a to_o scripture_n second_o that_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v then_o a_o far_o great_a argument_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o her_o tradition_n when_o it_o be_v unite_v with_o all_o other_o apostolic_a church_n than_o now_o when_o it_o be_v divide_v from_o they_o according_a to_o that_o of_o tertullian_n have_v the_o church_n err_v they_o will_v have_v vary_v but_o that_o which_o be_v the_o same_o in_o all_o can_v be_v error_n but_o tradition_n and_o therefore_o though_o irenaeus_n his_o argument_n may_v be_v very_o probable_a yet_o you_o may_v be_v worth_a nothing_o three_o that_o fourteen_o hundred_o year_n may_v have_v make_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o alteration_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n as_o river_n though_o near_o the_o fountain_n they_o may_v retain_v their_o native_a and_o unmixed_a sincerity_n yet_o in_o long_a progress_n can_v but_o take_v in_o much_o mixture_n that_o come_v not_o from_o the_o fountain_n and_o therefore_o the_o roman_a tradition_n though_o then_o pure_a may_v now_o be_v corrupt_a and_o impure_a and_o so_o this_o argument_n be_v one_o of_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v the_o worse_a for_o wear_v may_v in_o irenaeus_n his_o time_n be_v strong_a and_o vigorous_a and_o after_o decline_v and_o decay_v may_v long_o since_o have_v fall_v to_o nothing_o especial_o consider_v that_o irenaeus_n play_v the_o historian_n only_o and_o not_o the_o prophet_n and_o say_v only_o that_o the_o apostolic_a tradition_n have_v be_v always_o there_o as_o in_o other_o apostolic_a church_n conserve_v or_o observe_v choose_v you_o whither_o but_o that_o it_o shall_v be_v always_o so_o he_o say_v not_o neither_o have_v he_o any_o warrant_n he_o know_v well_o enough_o that_o there_o be_v foretell_v a_o great_a fall_v away_o of_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n to_o antichrist_n that_o the_o roman_a church_n in_o particular_a be_v forewarn_v that_o she_o also_o nay_o the_o whole_a church_n of_o the_o gentile_n may_v fall_v if_o they_o look_v not_o to_o their_o stand_n and_o therefore_o to_o secure_v she_o that_o she_o shall_v stand_v for_o ever_o he_o have_v no_o reason_n nor_o authority_n four_o that_o it_o appear_v manifest_o out_o of_o this_o book_n of_o irenaeus_n quote_v by_o you_o that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o chiliast_n be_v in_o his_o judgement_n apostolic_a tradition_n as_o also_o it_o be_v esteem_v for_o aught_o appear_v to_o the_o contrary_a by_o all_o the_o doctor_n and_o saint_n and_o martyr_n of_o or_o about_o his_o time_n for_o all_o that_o speak_v of_o it_o or_o who_o judgement_n in_o the_o point_n be_v any_o way_n record_v be_v for_o it_o and_o justin_n martyr_n profess_v that_o all_o good_a and_o orthodox_n christian_n of_o his_o time_n believe_v it_o and_o those_o that_o do_v not_o he_o reckon_v among_o heretic_n now_o i_o demand_v be_v this_o tradition_n one_o of_o those_o that_o be_v conserve_v and_o observe_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n or_o be_v it_o not_o if_o not_o have_v iraeneus_n know_v so_o much_o he_o must_v have_v retract_v this_o commendation_n of_o that_o church_n if_o it_o be_v than_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o present_a church_n of_o rome_n contradict_v the_o ancient_n and_o account_v it_o heretical_a and_o then_o sure_o it_o can_v be_v no_o certain_a note_n of_o heresy_n to_o depart_v from_o they_o who_o have_v depart_v from_o themselves_o and_o prove_v themselves_o subject_a unto_o error_n by_o hold_v contradiction_n five_o and_o last_o that_o out_o of_o the_o story_n of_o the_o church_n it_o be_v as_o manifest_a as_o the_o light_n at_o noon_n that_o though_o iraeneus_n do_v esteem_v the_o roman_a tradition_n a_o great_a argument_n of_o the_o doctrine_n which_o he_o there_o deliver_v and_o defend_v against_o the_o heretic_n of_o his_o time_n viz._n that_o there_o be_v one_o god_n yet_o he_o be_v very_o far_o from_o think_v that_o church_n be_v and_o ever_o shall_v be_v a_o safe_a keeper_n and_o a_o infallible_a witness_n of_o tradition_n in_o general_a inasmuch_o as_o in_o his_o own_o life_n his_o action_n proclaim_v the_o contrary_n for_o when_o victor_n bishop_n of_o rome_n obtrude_v the_o roman_a tradition_n touch_v the_o time_n of_o easter_n upon_o the_o asian_a bishop_n under_o the_o pain_n of_o excommunication_n and_o damnation_n iraeneus_n and_o all_o the_o other_o western_a bishop_n though_o agree_v with_o he_o in_o his_o observation_n yet_o sharp_o reprehend_v he_o for_o excommunicate_v the_o asian_a bishop_n for_o their_o disagree_v plain_o show_v that_o they_o esteem_v that_o not_o a_o necessary_a doctrine_n and_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n of_o excommunication_n which_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o his_o adherent_n do_v so_o account_v of_o for_o otherwise_o how_o can_v they_o have_v reprehend_v he_o for_o excommunicate_v they_o have_v they_o conceive_v the_o cause_n of_o his_o excommunication_n just_a and_o sufficient_a and_o beside_o evident_o declare_v that_o they_o esteem_v not_o separation_n from_o the_o roman_a church_n a_o certain_a mark_n of_o heresy_n see_v they_o esteem_v not_o they_o heretic_n though_o separate_v and_o cut_v off_o from_o the_o roman_a church_n 31._o obj._n s._n austin_n say_v in_o psalm_n count_v partem_fw-la donati_n it_o grieve_v we_o to_o see_v you_o so_o to_o lie_v cut_v off_o number_v the_o priest_n even_o from_o the_o sea_n of_o peter_n and_o consider_v in_o that_o order_n of_o father_n who_o succeed_v to_o who_o she_o be_v the_o rock_n which_o the_o proud_a gate_n of_o hell_n do_v not_o overcome_v where_o he_o seem_v to_o say_v that_o the_o succession_n in_o the_o sea_n of_o peter_n be_v the_o rock_n which_o our_o saviour_n mean_v when_o he_o say_v upon_o this_o rock_n will_v i_o build_v my_o church_n ans_fw-fr i_o answer_v first_o we_o have_v no_o reason_n to_o be_v confident_a of_o the_o truth_n hereof_o because_o s._n austin_n himself_o be_v not_o but_o retract_v it_o as_o uncertain_a and_o leaf_n to_o the_o reader_n whether_o he_o will_v think_v that_o or_o another_o more_o probable_a retr_n l._n 1._o c._n 26._o second_o what_o he_o say_v of_o the_o succession_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n in_o this_o place_n he_o say_v it_o elsewhere_o of_o all_o the_o succession_n in_o all_o other_o apostolic_a church_n three_o that_o as_o in_o this_o place_n he_o urge_v the_o donatist_n with_o separation_n from_o the_o roman_a church_n as_o a_o argument_n of_o their_o error_n so_o elsewhere_o he_o press_v they_o with_o their_o separation_n from_o other_o apostolic_a church_n nay_o more_o from_o these_o than_o from_o that_o because_o in_o rome_n the_o donatist_n have_v a_o bishop_n though_o not_o a_o perpetual_a succession_n of_o they_o but_o in_o other_o apostolic_a church_n they_o want_v both_o these_o scatter_a man_n say_v he_o of_o the_o donatist_n epist_n 165._o read_v in_o the_o holy_a book_n the_o church_n to_o which_o the_o apostle_n write_v and_o have_v no_o bishop_n in_o they_o but_o what_o be_v more_o perverse_a and_o
shall_v see_v what_o will_v come_v of_o it_o assure_v yourself_o you_o have_v a_o wolf_n by_o the_o ear_n if_o you_o say_v they_o be_v you_o overthrow_v your_o own_o conclusion_n and_o say_v that_o church_n divide_v in_o communion_n may_v both_o be_v member_n of_o the_o catholic_n if_o they_o be_v not_o then_o shall_v we_o have_v saint_n and_o martyr_n in_o heaven_n which_o be_v no_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n roman_n church_n as_o for_o irenaeus_n his_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o ruffinus_n his_o abscindere_fw-la ab_fw-la unitate_fw-la corporis_fw-la they_o imply_v no_o more_o but_o this_o at_o the_o most_o that_o victor_n quantum_fw-la in_fw-la se_fw-la fuit_fw-la do_v cut_v they_o off_o from_o the_o external_n communion_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n suppose_v that_o for_o their_o obstinacy_n in_o their_o tradition_n they_o have_v cut_v themselves_o off_o from_o the_o internal_a communion_n of_o it_o but_o that_o this_o sentence_n of_o victor_n be_v ratify_v in_o heaven_n and_o that_o they_o be_v indeed_o cut_v off_o from_o the_o mystical_a body_n of_o christ_n so_o far_o be_v irenaeus_n from_o think_v that_o he_o and_o in_o a_o manner_n all_o the_o other_o bishop_n reprehend_v victor_n for_o pronounce_v this_o sentence_n on_o they_o upon_o a_o cause_n so_o insufficient_a which_o how_o they_o can_v say_v or_o possible_o think_v of_o a_o sentence_n ratify_v by_o god_n in_o heaven_n and_o not_o reprehend_v god_n himself_o i_o desire_v you_o to_o inform_v i_o and_o if_o they_o do_v not_o intend_v to_o reprehend_v the_o sentence_n of_o god_n himself_o together_o with_o victor_n than_o i_o believe_v it_o will_v follow_v unavoidable_o that_o they_o do_v not_o conceive_v nor_o believe_v victor_n sentence_n to_o be_v ratify_v by_o god_n and_o consequent_o do_v not_o believe_v that_o these_o excommunicate_v church_n be_v not_o in_o god_n account_n true_a member_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n ad_fw-la §_o 4._o and_o here_o again_o we_o have_v another_o subterfuge_n by_o a_o verbal_a distinction_n between_o excommunication_n and_o voluntary_a separation_n as_o if_o the_o separation_n which_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n make_v in_o victor_n time_n from_o the_o asian_a church_n be_v not_o a_o voluntary_a separation_n or_o as_o if_o the_o church_n of_o asia_n do_v not_o voluntary_o do_v that_o which_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o their_o separation_n or_o as_o if_o though_o they_o sepated_a not_o themselves_o indeed_o conceive_v the_o cause_n to_o be_v insufficient_a they_o do_v not_o yet_o remain_v voluntary_o separate_v rather_o than_o conform_v themselves_o to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n or_o last_o as_o if_o the_o grecian_n of_o old_a or_o the_o protestant_n of_o late_a may_v not_o pretend_v as_o just_o as_o the_o asian_a church_n that_o their_o separation_n too_o be_v not_o voluntary_o but_o of_o necessity_n for_o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n require_v of_o they_o under_o pain_n of_o excommunication_n such_o condition_n of_o her_o communion_n as_o be_v neither_o necessary_a nor_o lawful_a to_o be_v perform_v ad_fw-la §_o 5._o and_o here_o again_o the_o matter_n be_v straighten_v by_o another_o limitation_n both_o side_n say_v you_o must_v claim_v to_o be_v the_o church_n but_o what_o then_o if_o one_o of_o they_o only_o claim_v though_o vain_o to_o be_v the_o church_n and_o the_o other_o content_a itself_o with_o be_v a_o part_n of_o it_o these_o than_o it_o seem_v for_o any_o thing_n you_o have_v say_v to_o the_o contrary_a may_v be_v both_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o certain_o this_o be_v the_o case_n now_o between_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o for_o aught_o i_o know_v be_v between_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o church_n of_o greece_n for_o i_o believe_v it_o will_v hardly_o be_v prove_v that_o the_o excommunication_n between_o they_o be_v mutual_a nor_o that_o the_o church_n of_o greece_n esteem_v itself_o the_o whole_a church_n and_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n no_o church_n but_o itself_o a_o sound_a member_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o a_o corrupt_a one_o again_o whereas_o you_o say_v the_o father_n speak_v of_o a_o voluntary_a separation_n certain_o they_o speak_v of_o any_o separation_n by_o heretic_n and_o such_o be_v in_o victor_n judgement_n the_o church_n of_o asia_n for_o hold_v a_o opinion_n contrary_a to_o the_o faith_n as_o he_o esteem_v or_o if_o he_o do_v not_o why_o do_v he_o cut_v they_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n but_o the_o true_a difference_n be_v the_o father_n speak_v of_o those_o which_o by_o your_o church_n be_v esteem_v heretic_n and_o be_v so_o whereas_o the_o asian_a church_n be_v by_o victor_n esteem_v heretic_n but_o be_v not_o so_o ad_fw-la §_o 6._o but_o their_o authority_n produce_v show_v no_o more_o than_o what_o i_o have_v show_v that_o the_o church_n be_v â—ut_v one_o in_o exclusion_n of_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n and_o not_o that_o two_o particular_a church_n divide_v by_o mistake_n upon_o some_o overvalue_v difference_n may_v not_o be_v both_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_n ad_fw-la §_o 7._o but_o i_o desire_v you_o to_o tell_v i_o whether_o you_o will_v do_v this_o if_o the_o doctrine_n produce_v and_o confirm_v by_o such_o a_o consent_n of_o father_n happen_v to_o be_v in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n either_o not_o catholic_n or_o absolute_o heretical_a if_o you_o will_v undertake_v this_o you_o shall_v hear_v far_o from_o i_o but_o if_o when_o their_o place_n be_v produce_v you_o will_v pretend_v as_o some_o of_o your_o side_n do_v that_o sure_o they_o be_v corrupt_v have_v neither_o reason_n nor_o show_v of_o reason_n for_o it_o unless_o this_o may_v pass_v for_o one_o as_o perhaps_o it_o may_v where_o reason_n be_v scarce_o that_o they_o be_v against_o your_o doctrine_n or_o if_o you_o will_v say_v they_o be_v to_o be_v interpret_v according_a to_o the_o pleasure_n of_o your_o church_n whether_o their_o word_n will_v bear_v it_o or_o no_o then_o i_o shall_v but_o lose_v my_o labour_n for_o this_o be_v not_o to_o try_v your_o church_n by_o the_o father_n but_o the_o father_n by_o your_o church_n the_o doctrine_n which_o i_o undertake_v to_o justify_v by_o a_o great_a consent_n of_o father_n than_o here_o you_o produce_v for_o instance_n shall_v be_v these_o 1._o that_o god_n election_n suppose_v prescience_n of_o man_n faith_n and_o perseverance_n 2._o that_o god_n do_v not_o predetermine_v man_n to_o all_o their_o action_n 3._o that_o the_o pope_n have_v no_o power_n in_o temporalty_n over_o king_n either_o direct_o or_o indirect_o 4._o that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n may_v err_v in_o his_o public_a determination_n of_o matter_n of_o faith_n 5._o that_o the_o b._n virgin_n be_v guilty_a of_o original_a sin_n 6._o that_o the_o b._n virgin_n be_v guilty_a of_o actual_a sin_n 7._o that_o the_o communion_n be_v to_o be_v administer_v to_o the_o laity_n in_o both_o kind_n 8._o that_o the_o read_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v to_o be_v deny_v to_o no_o man_n 9_o that_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o millenaries_n be_v true_a 10._o that_o the_o eucharist_n be_v to_o be_v administer_v to_o infant_n 11._o that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n remain_v in_o the_o eucharist_n of_o her_o consecration_n 12._o that_o the_o soul_n of_o the_o saint_n depart_v enjoy_v not_o the_o vision_n of_o god_n before_o the_o last_o day_n 13._o that_o at_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n all_o the_o saint_n shall_v past_o through_o a_o purge_a fire_n all_o these_o proposition_n be_v hold_v by_o your_o church_n either_o heretical_a or_o at_o least_o not_o catholical_a and_o yet_o in_o this_o promise_n of_o you_o you_o have_v undertake_v to_o believe_v they_o as_o firm_o as_o you_o now_o do_v this_o that_o two_o divide_a society_n can_v be_v both_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n ad_fw-la §_o 8._o be_v it_o not_o then_o the_o answerers_n part_n to_o show_v that_o the_o proof_n pretend_v be_v indeed_o no_o proof_n and_o do_v not_o he_o prove_v no_o proof_n at_o least_o in_o your_o mouth_n who_o undertake_v to_o show_v that_o a_o equal_a or_o great_a number_n of_o the_o very_a same_o witness_n be_v reject_v by_o yourselves_o in_o many_o other_o thing_n either_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o father_n in_o any_o age_n or_o age_n be_v infallible_a and_o then_o you_o be_v to_o reject_v it_o in_o nothing_o or_o it_o be_v not_o so_o and_o then_o you_o be_v not_o to_o urge_v it_o in_o any_o thing_n as_o if_o the_o father_n testimony_n against_o we_o be_v sword_n and_o spear_n and_o against_o you_o bulrush_n ad_fw-la §_o 9_o in_o effect_n as_o if_o you_o shall_v say_v if_o you_o answer_v not_o as_o i_o please_v i_o will_v dispute_v no_o long_o but_o you_o remember_v the_o proverb_n will_v think_v
unless_o this_o may_v pass_v for_o one_o as_o perhaps_o it_o may_v where_o reason_n be_v scarce_o no_o proposition_n which_o contradict_v the_o common_a judgement_n of_o the_o father_n can_v be_v probable_a probable_a probable_a i_o shall_v rather_o subsume_v but_o this_o do_v so_o therefore_o not_o probable_a but_o it_o be_v de_fw-fr fide_fw-la that_o our_o opinion_n be_v probable_a for_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n have_v make_v it_o so_o by_o give_v liberty_n to_o all_o to_o hold_v it_o therefore_o without_o doubt_n we_o must_v hold_v that_o it_o be_v not_o whatsoever_o it_o seem_v against_o the_o common_a judgement_n of_o the_o father_n this_o argument_n say_v he_o do_v most_o illustrious_o convince_v the_o follower_n of_o the_o contrary_a opinion_n that_o they_o ought_v not_o to_o dare_v affirm_v hereafter_o that_o their_o opinion_n flow_v from_o the_o common_a judgement_n and_o writing_n of_o the_o ancient_a doctor_n his_o second_o answer_n be_v that_o whereas_o bandillus_n and_o cajetan_n etc._n etc._n produce_v general_a say_n of_o irenaeus_n origen_n athanasius_n theophilus_n alexandrinus_n greg._n nyssen_n basil_n greg._n naz._n cyprian_n hierom_n fulgentius_n and_o in_o a_o manner_n of_o all_o the_o ancient_a father_n exempt_n christ_n alone_o from_o and_o consequent_o conclude_v the_o virgin_n mary_n under_o original_a sin_n which_o argument_n must_v needs_o conclude_v if_o the_o virgin_n mary_n be_v not_o christ_n his_o answer_n i_o say_v be_v these_o testimony_n have_v little_a or_o no_o strength_n for_o do_v they_o conclude_v we_o must_v then_o let_v we_o in_o god_n name_n say_v that_o the_o virgin_n mary_n commit_v also_o many_o venial_a sin_n for_o the_o scripture_n father_n and_o council_n set_v forth_o in_o proposition_n as_o universal_a that_o there_o be_v no_o man_n but_o christ_n who_o be_v not_o often_o defile_v at_o least_o with_o small_a sin_n and_o who_o may_v not_o just_o say_v that_o petition_n of_o our_o lord_n prayer_n demitte_v nobis_fw-la debita_fw-la nostra_fw-la a_o answer_n i_o confess_v as_o fit_a as_o a_o napkin_n to_o stop_v the_o mouth_n of_o his_o domestic_a adversary_n though_o no_o way_n fit_a to_o satisfy_v their_o reason_n but_o this_o man_n little_a thought_n there_o be_v protestant_n in_o the_o world_n as_o well_o as_o dominicans_n who_o will_v not_o much_o be_v trouble_v by_o thief_n fall_v out_o to_o recover_v more_o of_o their_o good_n than_o they_o expect_v and_o to_o see_v a_o prevaricate_a jesuit_n instead_o of_o stop_v one_o breach_n in_o their_o ruinous_a cause_n to_o make_v two_o for_o whereas_o this_o man_n argue_v from_o the_o destruction_n of_o the_o consequent_a to_o the_o destruction_n of_o the_o antecedent_n thus_o if_o these_o testimony_n be_v good_a and_o conclude_a than_o the_o virgin_n mary_n shall_v have_v be_v guilty_a not_o only_o of_o original_a but_o also_o of_o actual_a sin_n but_o the_o consequent_a be_v false_a and_o blasphemous_a therefore_o the_o antecedent_n be_v 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carne_fw-la christi_fw-la cap._n 7._o which_o he_o tell_v we_o will_v not_o be_v salve_v by_o pamelius_n his_o gloss_n out_o of_o athanafius_n out_o of_o irenaeus_n iii_o 18._o out_o of_o s._n austin_n lib._n 2._o de_fw-la symbolo_fw-la ad_fw-la catech._n cap._n 5._o who_o word_n yet_o because_o they_o admit_v say_z poza_fw-it some_o exposition_n i_o think_v fit_a to_o suppress_v though_o some_o think_v they_o be_v very_o hard_a to_o be_v avoid_v out_o of_o greg._n nyss_n out_o of_o s._n cyprian_n in_o his_o sermon_n on_o the_o passion_n who_o word_n say_v he_o though_o they_o may_v by_o some_o mean_n be_v elude_v yet_o will_v always_o be_v very_o difficult_a if_o we_o examine_v the_o antecedent_n and_o consequent_n out_o of_o anselm_n rich._n de_fw-fr s._n victor_n s._n ambrose_n s._n andrew_n of_o jerusalem_n and_o s._n bede_n and_o then_o tell_v we_o there_o be_v many_o other_o testimony_n much_o resemble_v these_o and_o beside_o many_o father_n and_o text_n of_o scripture_n which_o 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define_v though_o there_o be_v more_o testimony_n of_o father_n against_o it_o than_o against_o the_o immaculate_a conception_n so_o he_o say_v in_o the_o argument_n of_o his_o five_o chapter_n and_o in_o the_o end_n of_o the_o same_o chapter_n the_o council_n of_o lateran_n have_v define_v this_o against_o the_o express_a judgement_n of_o twenty_o father_n of_o which_o nazianzen_n basil_n chrysostome_n cyrill_n hierom_n ambrose_n and_o hillary_n be_v part_n his_o three_o example_n to_o the_o same_o purpose_n be_v the_o opinion_n that_o angel_n be_v incorporeal_a against_o which_o say_v he_o in_o the_o argument_n of_o his_o six_o chapter_n there_o be_v more_o testimony_n of_o the_o father_n than_o against_o the_o immaculate_a conception_n and_o yet_o it_o be_v or_o at_o least_o may_v be_v define_v by_o the_o church_n and_o in_o the_o end_n of_o the_o chapter_n i_o have_v for_o this_o opinion_n cite_v twenty_o three_o father_n which_o as_o most_o man_n think_v be_v now_o condemn_v in_o 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if_o they_o can_v not_o be_v so_o explain_v their_o authority_n ought_v not_o to_o hinder_v we_o from_o embrace_v that_o which_o the_o church_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d the_o same_o argument_n i_o make_v say_v peâ—â—_n the_o father_n and_o ancient_a doctor_n which_o be_v object_v against_o the_o pious_a opinion_n of_o the_o conception_n of_o the_o virgin_n may_v be_v commodious_o explicate_v or_o at_o least_o so_o handle_v that_o they_o shall_v not_o hurt_v notwithstanding_o though_o they_o can_v be_v explicate_v some_o of_o they_o that_o their_o testimony_n ought_v not_o to_o hinder_v but_o that_o the_o sea_n apostolic_a may_v define_v the_o bless_a virgin_n preservation_n from_o original_a sin_n in_o fine_a for_o the_o close_a of_o this_o argument_n he_o add_v nolo_fw-la per_fw-la plura_fw-la i_o will_v not_o run_v through_o more_o example_n these_o that_o i_o have_v reckon_v be_v sufficient_a and_o admonish_v learned_a man_n to_o bring_v together_o other_o like_a proof_n whereby_o they_o may_v promote_v the_o desire_a determination_n finis_fw-la