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cause_n bishop_n church_n good_a 1,603 5 3.5505 3 false
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A27046 A third defence of the cause of peace proving 1. the need of our concord, 2. the impossibility of it, on the terms of the present impositions against the accusations and storms of, viz., Mr. John Hinckley, a nameless impleader, a nameless reflector, or Speculum, &c., Mr. John Cheny's second accusation, Mr. Roger L'Strange, justice, &c., the Dialogue between the Pope and a fanatic, J. Varney's phanatic Prophesie / by Richard Baxter. Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. 1681 (1681) Wing B1419; ESTC R647 161,764 297

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teach_v some_o man_n be_v angry_a with_o they_o if_o they_o will_v care_v whether_o they_o be_v teach_v or_o untaught_a of_o all_o merchandise_n i_o love_v not_o make_v merchandise_n of_o soul_n but_o i_o pray_v you_o dream_v not_o that_o i_o take_v all_o the_o old_a ministry_n for_o such_o as_o these_o i_o know_v there_o be_v many_o excellent_a man_n but_o i_o think_v the_o present_a nonconformist_n as_o fit_v for_o the_o sacred_a office_n as_o these_o be_v that_o presumption_n §_o 10._o p._n 10._o i_o thank_v you_o for_o your_o transition_n and_o purpose_a brevity_n to_o requite_v you_o 1._o your_o first_o paragraph_n do_v but_o say_v in_o effect_n 1._o that_o you_o untrue_o suppose_v i_o to_o meddle_v with_o the_o controversy_n which_o i_o do_v but_o wish_v for_o leave_v to_o meddle_v with_o 2._o and_o that_o you_o think_v many_o thing_n good_a which_o i_o think_v to_o be_v stark_o naught_o but_o because_o you_o call_v i_o so_o oft_o to_o dispute_v the_o main_a controversy_n i_o 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a_o accuser_n of_o the_o afflict_a to_o talk_v of_o the_o dreadful_a subject_n of_o oath_n so_o poor_o as_o you_o do_v though_o i_o tell_v you_o i_o will_v not_o dispute_v this_o point_n with_o you_o without_o a_o licence_n from_o authority_n i_o will_v say_v 1._o that_o when_o you_o say_v take_v a_o unlawful_a oath_n in_o what_o sense_n you_o please_v and_o will_v there_o be_v much_o need_n of_o absolution_n you_o shall_v not_o so_o confuse_o have_o name_v a_o unlawful_a oath_n remember_v that_o you_o have_v prove_v against_o i_o that_o a_o question_n may_v be_v false_a and_o that_o a_o indefinite_a in_o renecessariâ_fw-la or_o thus_o unlimited_o deliver_v go_v for_o a_o universal_a a_o oath_n be_v unlawful_a 1._o quoad_fw-la actum_fw-la imponendi_fw-la 2._o quoad_fw-la actum_fw-la jurandi_fw-la 3._o quoad_fw-la materiam_fw-la juratam_fw-la if_o the_o materia_fw-la jurata_fw-la be_v lawful_a do_v you_o think_v that_o the_o unlawfulness_n of_o the_o other_o two_o do_v leave_v no_o need_n of_o a_o absolution_n 1._o what_o if_o a_o thief_n force_v i_o to_o swear_v allegiance_n to_o the_o king_n or_o to_o swear_v to_o do_v some_o duty_n do_v it_o not_o add_v a_o second_o bond_n or_o what_o if_o i_o vow_v without_o the_o command_n of_o any_o power_n 2._o what_o if_o i_o sin_v in_o make_v a_o vow_n or_o oath_n by_o take_v it_o from_o a_o usurper_n or_o without_o just_a cause_n or_o unreasonable_o or_o to_o a_o ill_a end_n etc._n etc._n if_o the_o matter_n be_v good_a do_v it_o not_o then_o bind_v i_o and_o de_fw-fr materiâ_fw-la what_o if_o one_o article_n or_o many_o be_v bad_a and_o another_o good_a do_v the_o neighbourhood_n of_o the_o bad_a disoblige_v i_o from_o the_o good_a if_o so_o it_o be_v but_o insert_v some_o bad_a clause_n and_o man_n may_v be_v bind_v by_o no_o oath_n or_o vow_n as_o in_o the_o former_a case_n it_o be_v but_o swear_v sinful_o to_o a_o ill_a end_n etc._n etc._n and_o never_o be_v oblige_v but_o if_o this_o be_v your_o divinity_n about_o oath_n and_o perjury_n you_o have_v no_o cause_n to_o censure_v they_o so_o deep_o that_o swear_v not_o as_o quick_a and_o deep_a as_o you_o your_o next_o question_n be_v must_v the_o sense_n of_o a_o oath_n be_v measure_v by_o he_o that_o receive_v it_o or_o ●rom_o the_o authority_n and_o intention_n of_o those_o that_o impose_v it_o answer_v still_o worse_o and_o worse_o what_o confusion_n be_v here_o who_o know_v whether_o by_o measure_v the_o sense_n you_o mean_v as_o to_o the_o take_n of_o the_o ●ath_n or_o as_o to_o the_o obligation_n of_o it_o when_o take_v your_o must_v seem_v to_o speak_v of_o both_o but_o 1._o he_o ●hat_n take_v a_o oath_n from_o one_o in_o lawful_a authority_n ●r_o from_o a_o equal_a be_v bind_v to_o take_v it_o in_o the_o sense_n ●f_o the_o imposer_n or_o requirer_n who_o we_o will_v satisfy_v 2._o he_o that_o take_v a_o oath_n from_o a_o thief_n ●r_o murderer_n some_o casuist_n say_v be_v bind_v not_o ●o_o lie_v to_o hide_v his_o sense_n but_o may_v take_v 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vow_v to_o god_n and_o not_o only_o a_o ●ath_n to_o man_n be_v bind_v to_o keep_v it_o in_o the_o sense_n he_o ●ok_v it_o in_o if_o it_o be_v material_o lawful_a if_o i_o vow_v to_o ●ive_a so_o much_o to_o a_o minister_n of_o christ_n and_o he_o that_o ●rced_v i_o to_o it_o mean_v a_o mass_n priest_n and_o i_o mistake_v ●im_v and_o mean_v a_o true_a minister_n i_o be_o bind_v by_o ●y_a vow_n to_o give_v it_o he_o if_o your_o confuse_a question_n suppose_v the_o contrary_a than_o a_o man_n vow_n to_o god_n be_v all_o null_a if_o he_o that_o force_v he_o to_o it_o be_v of_o another_o sense_n a_o mere_a oath_n to_o confirm_v a_o contract_n to_o a_o man_n be_v to_o be_v interpret_v by_o the_o contract_n be_v but_o a_o obligation_n to_o perform_v it_o yea_o and_o may_v be_v remit_v by_o the_o man_n that_o will_v remit_v his_o right_n but_o in_o a_o vow_n god_n and_o man_n be_v the_o party_n and_o god_n sense_n impose_v and_o man_n sense_n intend_v in_o the_o vow_n be_v each_o oblige_v so_o that_o if_o ten_o man_n use_v the_o same_o word_n in_o vow_v in_o ten_o several_a sense_n they_o be_v ten_o several_a vow_n and_o all_o oblige_v if_o material_o lawful_a and_o therefore_o when_o you_o say_v that_o the_o vow_n be_v command_v by_o usurper_n and_o when_o i_o know_v not_o the_o sense_n of_o one_o that_o vow_v let_v he_o that_o will_v say_v of_o million_o that_o they_o be_v not_o bind_v no_o not_o when_o they_o vow_v against_o schism_n and_o profaneness_n but_o you_o cite_v here_o a_o non_fw-fr conformist_n against_o i_o amesius_n case_n conscience_n to_o you_o p._n 216._o to_o i_o p._n 203._o but_o 1._o he_o speak_v not_o at_o all_o of_o our_o question_n in_o what_o sense_n a_o oath_n bind_v when_o take_v but_o only_o in_o what_o sense_n it_o ought_v to_o be_v take_v 2._o he_o speak_v not_o of_o a_o vow_n but_o of_o a_o mere_a oath_n 3._o he_o speak_v only_o of_o the_o case_n of_o equivocation_n but_o he_o that_o swear_v in_o sensu_fw-la famosiore_fw-la to_o a_o thief_n who_o mind_n he_o be_v not_o bind_v to_o follow_v do_v not_o equivocate_v 4._o he_o himself_o say_v in_o the_o next_o case_n that_o the_o word_n of_o a_o oath_n must_v be_v take_v eo_fw-la sensu_fw-la quem_fw-la audientes_fw-la concepturos_fw-la judicamus_fw-la id_fw-la est_fw-la regulariter_fw-la eo_fw-la sensu_fw-la quem_fw-la habent_fw-la in_o communi_fw-la hominum_fw-la usu_fw-la but_o the_o audientes_fw-la and_o the_o imposer_n may_v be_v different_a and_o a_o man_n may_v think_v sometime_o that_o the_o imposer_n sense_n may_v be_v contrary_a to_o the_o usum_fw-la communem_fw-la and_o his_o own_o agreeable_a to_o it_o but_o this_o impertinent_a question_n be_v nothing_o to_o
i_o be_o sure_a to_o play_v with_o oath_n be_v a_o mark_n of_o the_o contrary_n god_n will_v not_o hold_v he_o guiltless_a that_o take_v his_o name_n in_o vain_a all_o thing_n by_o temptation_n may_v go_v for_o lawful_a to_o he_o to_o who_o perjury_n deliberate_a study_a perjury_n seem_v lawful_a yea_o and_o a_o duty_n and_o avoid_v the_o name_n be_v no_o avoid_v of_o the_o thing_n he_o that_o will_v commit_v murder_n adultery_n theft_n etc._n etc._n and_o then_o prove_v it_o to_o be_v no_o murder_n etc._n etc._n do_v not_o thereby_o escape_v the_o guilt_n and_o he_o that_o be_v not_o willing_a to_o know_v sin_n to_o be_v sin_n that_o he_o may_v leave_v it_o be_v wilful_a and_o wicked_a as_o well_o as_o he_o that_o will_v not_o leave_v it_o when_o he_o know_v it_o we_o do_v search_v the_o scripture_n to_o know_v what_o be_v perjury_n as_o well_o as_o we_o can_v and_o we_o be_v the_o less_o likely_a to_o be_v partial_a when_o our_o judgement_n lose_v we_o the_o favour_n of_o so_o many_o and_o our_o maintenance_n and_o liberty_n and_o in_o prison_n hazard_v our_o life_n beside_o our_o ministry_n the_o most_o of_o all_o few_o man_n will_v take_v this_o way_n for_o the_o flesh_n yet_o this_o be_v no_o proof_n that_o our_o cause_n be_v good_a but_o let_v the_o evidence_n show_v whether_o in_o fear_v perjury_n we_o fear_v a_o serpent_n under_o every_o leaf_n or_o a_o gorgon_n head_n in_o every_o bush_n and_o bring_v this_o woe_n upon_o ourselves_o or_o not_o if_o we_o do_v it_o be_v not_o for_o worldy_a end_n nor_o be_v it_o by_o a_o superstitious_a fear_n of_o thing_n indifferent_a if_o so_o many_o in_o queen_n mary_n day_n be_v burn_v for_o deny_v the_o real_a presence_n etc._n etc._n shall_v i_o not_o fear_v perjury_n §_o 44._o next_o p._n 20._o you_o come_v to_o the_o liturgy_n confession_n that_o our_o discipline_n be_v imperfect_a and_o think_v that_o shall_v satisfy_v i_o ans_fw-fr so_o it_o do_v satisfy_v i_o not_o to_o assent_v and_o consent_n to_o all_o thing_n contain_v in_o and_o prescribe_v by_o the_o book_n of_o ordination_n and_o the_o liturgy_n and_o not_o to_o forswear_v all_o lawful_a endeavour_n of_o a_o reformation_n it_o seem_v unmeet_a for_o i_o whatever_o other_o do_v to_o give_v so_o plenary_a assent_n and_o consent_v thus_o to_o swear_v to_o that_o which_o in_o the_o same_o book_n be_v confess_v imperfect_a i_o can_v live_v in_o communion_n with_o a_o church_n that_o have_v imperfection_n and_o keep_v its_o peace_n but_o not_o assent_v consent_n or_o swear_v to_o its_o imperfection_n 2._o an_o you_o give_v i_o no_o reason_n yet_o why_o a_o confession_n the_o imperfection_n of_o discipline_n shall_v satisfy_v u●_n that_o all_o thing_n in_o the_o church_n government_n or_o all_o church-government_n be_v both_o lawful_a and_o necessary_a and_o unalterable_a for_o if_o it_o be_v alterable_a by_o king_n and_o parliament_n i_o will_v ●●●●_o swear_v never_o to_o endeavour_v a_o alteration_n though_o they_o command_v i_o nor_o will_v i_o believe_v you_o if_o you_o say_v that_o this_o case_n of_o their_o command_n be_v except_v while_o the_o term_n be_v universal_a without_o exception_n remember_v that_o the_o long_a parliament_n long_o before_o the_o war_n when_o the_o lord_n falkland_n lord_n digby_n and_o the_o rest_n join_v with_o they_o do_v exagitate_v the_o et_fw-la cetera_fw-la oath_n for_o the_o word_n not_o consent_n as_o establish_n prelacy_n as_o a_o unalterable_a thing_n whereas_o they_o know_v not_o but_o the_o king_n and_o parliament_n may_v be_v bring_v to_o see_v cause_n for_o some_o alteration_n and_o this_o parliament_n have_v not_o restore_v that_o oath_n and_o canon_n ib._n §_n 44._o my_o consutation_n of_o your_o horn_a reason_v and_o of_o the_o common_a peralium_fw-la i_o perceive_v offend_v you_o as_o triumphant_a it_o be_v natural_a for_o man_n that_o see_v plain_a truth_n to_o be_v guilty_a of_o call_v it_o truth_n in_o this_o if_o we_o can_v be_v pardon_v we_o must_v be_v patient_a truth_n itself_o be_v our_o reward_n and_o satisfaction_n the_o force_n of_o my_o reply_n you_o indeed_o leave_v entire_a and_o untouched_a for_o when_o you_o say_v that_o you_o break_v my_o chain_n at_o the_o first_o link_n you_o do_v but_o repeat_v what_o i_o reply_v to_o and_o put_v i_o but_o to_o say_v over_o again_o what_o i_o say_v you_o say_v that_o lay-chancellor_n excommunicate_a neither_o as_o layman_n or_o as_o clergyman_n formal_o or_o by_o any_o proper_a causality_n but_o from_o the_o surrogate_v answ_n and_o be_v you_o willing_a here_o to_o be_v understand_v either_o they_o do_v excommunicate_a by_o proper_a causality_n without_o causality_n no_o act_n be_v do_v or_o they_o do_v not_o if_o you_o mean_v that_o indeed_o they_o do_v not_o why_o will_v you_o not_o say_v so_o and_o deal_v plain_o if_o you_o mean_v they_o excommunicate_v but_o ●●●●_o by_o causality_n why_o will_v you_o not_o say_v so_o which_o ●●most_o absurd_a if_o they_o do_v it_o they_o do_v it_o formal_o as_o some_o person_n and_o in_o some_o capacity_n and_o by_o some_o power_n or_o right_v whatever_o it_o be_v that_o they_o do_v excommunicate_a and_o absolve_v decretive_o as_o the_o state_v public_a judge_n be_v notorious_a to_o the_o land_n that_o the_o person_n in_o which_o they_o do_v it_o be_v formal_o lay_v or_o clergy_n i_o think_v have_v be_v past_o doubt_n and_o the_o enumeration_n have_v be_v sufficient_a but_o you_o do_v dare_v tertium_fw-la find_v out_o a_o three_o number_n he_o be_v formal_o neither_o lay_v nor_o clergy_n but_o do_v it_o from_o the_o surrogate_v see_v you_o not_o how_o you_o change_v the_o question_n in_o what_o person_n he_o do_v it_o into_o from_o who_o he_o do_v it_o or_o make_v that_o from_o to_o signify_v a_o three_o species_n which_o you_o can_v not_o or_o will_v not_o name_v and_o when_o i_o say_v that_o if_o he_o do_v it_o from_o the_o surrogate_n yet_o he_o do_v it_o either_o as_o a_o layman_n or_o a_o clergyman_n you_o answer_v i_o as_o neither_o but_o from_o the_o surrogate_n you_o may_v have_v say_v as_o well_o as_o neither_o but_o from_o the_o king_n but_o who_o ever_o it_o be_v from_o tell_v we_o of_o what_o species_n that_o man_n be_v in_o act_v who_o be_v neither_o formal_o a_o layman_n nor_o a_o clergyman_n whereas_o in_o our_o present_a sense_n as_o a_o clergyman_n signify_v one_o in_o the_o priesthood_n or_o deaconship_n dedicate_v to_o the_o sacred_a church-office_n i_o easy_o prove_v that_o in_o the_o world_n there_o be_v no_o three_o sort_n because_o the_o term_n signify_v opposita_fw-la contradicentia_fw-la &_o contradictio_fw-la est_fw-la omnium_fw-la oppositionum_fw-la maxima_fw-la prima_fw-la &_o reliquarum_fw-la mensura_fw-la for_o to_o be_v a_o layman_n be_v to_o be_v one_o that_o be_v not_o devote_v and_o separate_v as_o aforesaid_a and_o devotus_fw-la &_o non_fw-la devotus_fw-la separatus_fw-la ad_fw-la sacra_fw-la &_o non_fw-la separatus_fw-la vel_fw-la persona_fw-la sacrata_fw-la &_o non_fw-la 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excommunicate_v king_n offer_v we_o as_o a_o test_n or_o why_o be_v there_o never_o any_o such_o difference_n between_o we_o and_o the_o prelatist_n pretend_v try_v we_o whether_o we_o will_v not_o subscribe_v in_o this_o to_o as_o much_o as_o the_o prelatist_n ever_o do_v agree_v on_o or_o ordinary_o hold_v and_o lay_v our_o liberty_n upon_o it_o and_o spare_v not_o but_o i_o remember_v you_o nibble_v before_o at_o my_o word_n in_o differ_v of_o magist_n and_o pastor_n power_n thes_n 60._o p._n 38._o as_o if_o i_o have_v say_v that_o unless_o perhaps_o in_o some_o rare_a case_n king_n may_v not_o be_v excommunicate_v a_o calumny_n when_o i_o annex_v those_o word_n of_o exception_n only_o to_o the_o excommunicate_v of_o parent_n but_o your_o way_n be_v still_o equal_a and_o i_o give_v even_o moral_a reason_n against_o excommunicate_a king_n and_o parent_n but_o when_o you_o in_o swear_v will_v put_v who_o know_v how_o many_o exception_n to_o express_v universals_z must_v i_o after_o 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that_o alex_n severus_n borrow_v his_o motto_n of_o the_o christian_n quod_fw-la tibi_fw-la fieri_fw-la non_fw-la vis_fw-la etc._n etc._n he_o never_o say_v that_o therefore_o he_o be_v a_o christian_n i_o have_v get_v no_o lawyer_n to_o plead_v for_o i_o at_o the_o bar_n if_o they_o have_v know_v that_o they_o be_v accountable_a for_o all_o my_o opinion_n i_o be_o sure_a the_o lord_n chief_a justice_n when_o he_o acquit_v i_o think_v fit_a to_o declare_v his_o different_a judgement_n from_o i_o in_o point_n of_o preach_v private_o yet_o here_o your_o term_n of_o logic_n be_v into_o how_o many_o shape_n and_o hecatetriformis_fw-la fish_n flesh_n mermaid_n episcopal_n presbyterian_a independent_a yet_o none_o of_o these_o when_o you_o please_v a_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d sometime_o in_o the_o water_n sometime_o out_o i_o wish_v you_o be_v hot_a or_o cold_a all_o this_o set_v together_o will_v make_v a_o syllogism_n of_o a_o new_a mood_n and_o figure_n but_o 1._o for_o aught_o i_o 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do_v rom._n 14._o 1_o 2_o etc._n etc._n but_o be_v such_o a_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d as_o he_o that_o become_v a_o jew_n a_o greek_a all_o thing_n to_o all_o man_n that_o he_o may_v win_v some_o when_o i_o offend_v the_o bishop_n in_o conference_n i_o open_o tell_v they_o i_o have_v ever_o take_v kneel_v at_o the_o sacrament_n to_o be_v lawful_a but_o i_o never_o take_v it_o to_o be_v lawful_a to_o cast_v honest_a christian_n out_o of_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n that_o dare_v not_o do_v it_o do_v this_o prove_v i_o to_o be_v neither_o fish_n nor_o flesh_n be_v no_o man_n of_o your_o religion_n that_o be_v not_o for_o excommunication_n or_o prison_n sword_n or_o flame_n for_o every_o child_n of_o god_n that_o cry_v or_o wrangle_v with_o the_o breast_n again_o i_o will_v say_v be_v they_o priscillianist_n i_o be_o more_o for_o martin_n spirit_n than_o the_o ithacian_a bishop_n and_o sir_n that_o factious_a fury_n and_o uncharitableness_n keep_v up_o but_o 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