commit the chiefe charge and supreme gouernment of his Church c. Is altogither vnnecessarie for neuer did any of that sorte affirme that to bée true Wée doo all know that our Sauiour Christ did not call Emperours Kings Quéenes nor Princes to make them his messengers or Apostles but he called Fisher men and such other and made them able and méete to doo his message euen to Princes and Emperours and to all other the greatest personages in the world As saint Paule writeth 1. Cor. 1. 1 Cor 1 Quae stulta sunt mundi elegâ— Deus vt confundat sapientes c. God hath chosen the foolish things of the world that hée might confounde the wise and God chose the weake things of the world to confounde the stronge and the base and dispised thinges of the world hath God chosen yea and those thinges that bée not that hée might destroy those thinges that bée Yea and wée doo know that God did not prepare the hearts of the Princes and chiefe men of the world to receiue the doctrine of the gospell with the first so that the Apostle Paule had occasion to write thus to the same Corinthians 1. Cor. 1. 1 Cor 1 Videte vocationem vestram c. Brethren consider your calling for there are not amongst you many wise men after the flesh not many mighty not many of noble Parentage c. Yea in the daies wherein Saint Augustin cliued which was 400. yéeres after the ascention of our sauiour Christ it séemed a strange thing euen in the City of Rome that any man of any account in the world would become a Christian man For when Victorinus a famous Rhethorician in that City would professe the Religion of Christ and be baptized hée did it as Saint Augustine hath written Confessionum lib. 8. cap. 2. Mirante Roma gauâ—â—nte Ecclesia August lib 8 Cap 2 Rome meruelling and the Church of Christ in Rome reioyceing There is therefore no cause why you shoulde require the learned Protestant to prooue by plain Scriptures that our Sauiour Christ did commit the chiefe charge and supreme gouernment of his Church to Emperors c. But this the Protestants doo hold and are able to prooue by plaine places of the Scriptures that Emperors Kings Quéenes Princes Dukes and all other Potentates are the supreme gouernours of those peoples ouer whom God hath placed them whether the same people bée by profession Christians or Miscreants Yea and that the chiefe charge that euery of these Potentates haue from God is that they shall in their owne persons walke in the Lordes wayes and leade their people in the same And for that cause they are in the Scriptures called Pastores that is Shéepeheards as in the 44. Cha. of his Prophecies Esay 44 Esaie speaking in the person of God saith Qui dico Cyro Pastor meus 〈◊〉 omnem voluntatem meam complebis That is Which doo say vnto Cyrus thou arte my Shéepeheard and thou shalt fulfill all my will Cyrus was an Heathen prince and yet the Lord calleth him his Shéepeheard and commaundeth him to fulfill all his will and pleasure King Dauid being a Shéepheard in déede was taken from the Shéepefold and made king ouer all Israell that hée might féede that people of the Lord euen as a Shéepeheard féedeth his flocke And hée did rule them prudently with all his possible powre Psal 78. Psalm 78 And that these Potentates might bée able to discharge that duety that the Lord God hath appointed them to doo hée hath giuen vnto them the powre of the Sword as in the 13. Rom 13. Chapter to the Romaines it appeareth Principes saith Saint Paule non sunt timori boni operis sed mali c. Princes are not to bée feared of them that doo well but of them that doo euill Wilt thou bée without feare of the Potentate Doo well and thou shalt bée praised of him For hée is Gods minister to doo the good But if thou doo euill then feare him for hée beareth not a Sword for nought Hée is Gods minister to take vengeance on him that dooth euill c. At that time wherein the Apostle wrote those woordes to the Romaines there was not one Christian Prince as it may bée thought in all the world And yet hée dooth certifie the Romaines that euen those heathen Princes were ordained of GOD for the benefit of Christians as of all other sortes of men that world bend them selues to walke in hys wayes and not contynue in ignoraunce of lyfe And for the punishment of all such as should giue them selues to leade a dissolute life Yea and it belonged to the office euen of those Princes not onely to vse the powre of the Sword in defending Innocents and in punishing wicked doers but also to set foorth aduaunce and maintaine right and true Religion as in the holy Histories it dooth appeare that they did as often as by any occasion their hearts were touched with the feare of GOD As Darius the Persian Emperour when hee had séene the mighty powre of GOD in preseruing Daniell in the Lyons den did hee not write immediately to all his subiects commaunding them to feare to stand in awe of Daniels God confessing him to be the lyuing and euerlasting God that his kingdome powre is euerlasting and that it is hée that deliuereth and saueth worketh woonders both in Heauen in Earth Daniel 6. Daniel 6. The same Darius as it appeareth in the sixt Chapter of the first booke of Esdras coÌ„maunded that the Temple in Hierusalem which had bin destroyed by the Babylonians should bée reedified as king Cyrus had commaunded and that it should bée furnished with all things necessary and meete for the seruice of God 1. Esdras 1. 6. 1. Esd 1. 6 And amongst the good kings of Israell and Iuda Dauid not without a secret motion from God I am sure did cause the Arke of Gods couenant to bée brought to Hierusalem and placed in a Tabernacle which hée had prepared for it there yea and in his owne person hée vsed all such behauiour as might tend to the setting foorth of the glorie of God and abase him selfe in the sight of God and at his owne charges hée caused much sacrifice to bée offered to the Lord and afterward hée blessed the people of the Lord and gaue rewards of meate drinke to euery one of them as well the women as the men As appeareth in the sixt Chapter of the second booke of Samuell which you call the second of the kings 2. Reg. 6 And I pray you good M. Offerer who was hée whom God appointed to build his Temple in Hierusalem was it not Salomon the king And did not hée builde it in déed and furnish it according as the Lord had coÌ„maunded him Tertij Reg. 5. c. And who reformed Religion destroied the Idols that king Achas had caused to bee set vp in the Temple was it
Christ which was 70. yéeres after as it is supposed that Peter was made bishop of Rome So that the church vsed none of those things that were diuised by him for the space of those 70. yéeres of the first 300. yeeres After this Alexander Sixtus 1. was made bishop of Rome in the yeere 121. after the incarnation of our sauiour Christ if the hystories bee true and the fourescore yeere after the supposed entring of Peter into the Byshopricke of Rome This man diuised sundrie things as Sanctus sanctus sanctus to bée songe in the celebration of the Lords supper But heere I must note how vnlikely this is to bée true for as saint Augustine hath written in the 7. August li. 9. Conf. Ca. 7. Chapter of the 9. booke of his confessions the custome of singing in churches was not begun in the Latine church before the dayes of Ambros who liued about the yeere of our Lord 380. And more ouer it can not bee prooued by any hystories that the Christians had any liberty to builde any church in the citie Rome before the time of Constantine the Emperoure who builded at his owne charges the first churches that the Christians had in Rome But let it bée as Platina hath written in the life of Sixtus the first Hée commanded that Sanctus sanctus sanctus that is holy holy holy should bee songe in the celebration that is in the ministration of the cōmunion But I pray you marke what Platina saith further Nuda primo haec erant c. At the first those things were bare and naked and all thinges were handled simply For when Peter did consecrate hée vsed the prayer Our father Iames the bishop of Hierusalem encreased or enriched these mysteries and so did Basill and other For Celestinus gaue the Introite of the Masse Gregorie the Kyrie eleison Telesphorus the Gloria in excelsis Deo Gelasius the first gaue the Collations and Hierome the Epistle and the Gospell Haleluia was taken from the church of Hierusalem The Credo from the counsell of Néece Pelagius inuented the cōmemoration of the deade Leo the third inuented the Incense Innocent the first inuented the kissing of the Paxe And Sergius ordained that Agnus Dei should bée songe But séeing that in the daies of Sixtus fewe were founde by reason of the often murders or slaughters of Christians that durst professe the name of Christ and the Christians in France did desire to haue a bishop Sixtus did send vnto them one Peregrinus a citizen of Rome c. Thus far Platina By these woords of Platina it appeareth that during the first 80. yeeres after saint Peters supposed entring into the bishopricke of Rome there was no more vsed in the ministration of the Lords supper but the Lords prayer which beginneth thus Our father which arte in heauen c. Celestinus that gaue the Introite of the Masse was not bishop in Rome before the ende of 420. yeeres after Christ so that for the space of 420. yéeres your Masse had no Introite That Gregorie that appointed the Kyrie eleison was made bishop of Rome in the yéere 590. after Christ so that your Masse lacked that parte for the space of 600. yeeres almost Telesphorus added the Gloria in excelsis about 130. yeeres after Christ so that your Masse did lack that parte so longe time Gelasius the first that diuised the Collations was bishop of Rome about 490. yeeres after Christ so that your Masse lacked hir Collations almost 500. yéeres Hieronimus that added the Epistle and Gospell was neuer bishop either in Rome or else where Hee liued in Bethlehem about 380. yéeres after Christ so that your Masse had no Epistle or Gospell for 380. yeeres after Christ And your Halleluia was taken from the church of Hierusalem by Gregorie the first who was bishop of Rome about the yéere of our Lord 590. The Nicene Créede could not be vsed before that councell wherein it was agréed vpon which was 330. yeeres after Christ And Pelagius that inuented the remembrance of the deade was made bishop of Rome in the yeere of our Lord 556. so that for the space of so many yeeres after Christ there was no remembrance of the deade in your Masse Leo the third that inuented the burning of Incense was made bishop of Rome in the yeere 796. after Christ so that for the space of so many yeeres there was no burning of Incense in churches Innocent the first was made bishop of Rome in the yeere 406. hée inuented the kissing of the Paxe at Masse so longe therefore was your Masse without that ceremonie And Sergius that appointed the singing of Agnus Dei was made bishop of Rome in the yeere after Christ 694. or there about so that your Masse lacked hir Agnus Dei for the space almost of 700. yeeres after Christ Now M. Offerer consider with your selfe I pray you whether the learned Protestant may not as easily prooue the antiquitie of his communion booke euen from the Apostles time as you may prooue your Authenticall seruice and ministration of sacraments now daily openly practized If you would with indifferent iudgment weigh al that I haue here written I doo not doubt but you would cōfesse that during the first 90. yéeres after Christs ascention there was no prescribed order set downe in any booke for publike seruice or ministration of sacramēts other then that which is contained in the scriptures Wherefore there is none so great a cause of misliking in oure common booke as that there be so many of your latter inuētions allowed of in it And surely if our princes people would yéelde to a perfect reformation wee might make our communion booke a great deale lesse then it is by blotting out of it all that hath bin inuented by your bishops of Rome Thus I doo thinke I haue said enough to cause you to recant although you would not before The twelfth Offer Offerer I demaund of the learned Protestant to know cause and reason why their congregations doo admit and receiue all bishops priests deacons and other officers spirituall ordered by our Catholike church as men lawfull and sufficient to preach the word of God to minister the Sacramēts to exercise all spirituall iurisdiction in no lesse wise but rather more then if they had bin ordred in their owne congregations whereas the Catholike church of Christ dooth not acknowledge any man of their ordering and calling to be any whit the more fit for any spirituall function in Christ his church then other cōmon lay men When therefore the learned Protestant shal be able to shew good cause and reason why our Catholike church hauing by their owne consent and approouing lawfull priestes bishops and spirituall ministers not to be also the lawfull true and Catholike church of Christ I will then recant and not before Crowley This Offer is altogither friuolous and foolish For what reason was it that mooued this vnreasonable Offerer to require the learned
not his sonne Ezechias And did not the same Ezechias brake the brasen Serpent 4. Reg. 18. bicause the people had burned Incense to it Yea and when the Priestes did any thing in the reformation of Religion did they it not by the appointment and at the commaundement of those good kings Dauid Salomon Ezechias and Iosias Reade the History of the kings and you shall sée And what did Christ come to take this Authority from Princes And hath hée taken it from them and giuen it to Peter and his Successors Hée him selfe hath acknowledged that authority in Princes in that hée payde Tribute to the Emperour both for him selfe and for Peter Math. 17. In the 13. Chapter to the Romaines Math 17. saint Paule declareth that the paying of Tribute is an acknowledging of the highest authority in Princes Chrysostome Chrysost in Rom. 13. expounding that place of Saint Paules Epistle writeth thus Cur enim inquit vectigalia Regi damus Nunquid tanquam prospicienti Nunquid tanquam praesidenti curae tuitionisque mercedem soluentes For why saith hée doo wée giue Tribute to the king Doo wée not giue it as vnto him that hath a prouident care for vs Doo wée it not as men that pay vnto him that hath the rule of vs the wages or hyer that is due to him for the care that hée hath to defend vs 1 Peter 2 And dooth not Saint Peter from whom your Bishops and Priests doo claime their high authority write thus in the second Chapter of his first Epistle Subdite igitur estote c. Bée yée subiect therefore to euery humaine creature euen for the Lords cause whether it be to the king as to him that excelleth either to Dukes as to them that are sent of him for the punishment of euill dooers but for â—he praise of them that bée good For so is the will of God that behauing your selues well you may stop the mouthes of foolish and Ignoraunt men as being free and not hauing the liberty for a cloke of maliciousnes but as the seruants of God Thus if you haue eyes to sée you may sée that the very testimonies that you haue alleaged being taken in their right sence doo prooue sufficiently that though no learned Protestant can prooue or dooth or hath affirmed that our Sauiour Christ did commit the chiefe charge and supreme gouernmeÌ„t of his Chruch to Emperors kings c. Yet the chiefe charge sepreme gouernment of men of all sorts hath bin alwaies is still and euer shal be in such Potentats euen by the ordinance of God him selfe as by the other testimonies that I haue alleaged dooth most manifestly appeare And where as you require the learned Protestant to prooue that any one of Christes Apostles or Disciples did by preaching the Protestants doctrine conuert any people lande or countrey from their Idolatry and Ethnike kinde of liuing to Christian faith and Religion as of onely faith to iustifie c. I say that neuer any one of the Apostles or Disciples of Christ were the meanes that God vsed in the conuerting of any one lande people or countrey by the preaching of any other doctrine then that which you call the Protestants doctrine You note sixe points of doctrine preached by the Protestants which as you say neither the Apostles nor any Disciple of Christ preached First that faith onely iustifieth Secondly that all good works are vncleane in the sight of God Thirdly that there is no frée will Fourthly that the body of Christ is not really present in the Eucharist Fiftly that the blessed Masse is not a Sacrifice And sixtly the abolishing of Christes Sacraments and all the graces and goodnes that is conferred to vs by them For the first I say that Christ him selfe hath taught it in that hée hath sayd thus Mar. 16. Qui crediderit baptizatus fuerit saluus erit Qui vere non crediderit coâ—demnabitur Marci 16 Hée that shall belieue and bée baptized shal be saued But hée that shall not belieue shal be condemned Saint Paule hath taught it to the Romaines Chap. 5. Rom. 5. in these woords Justificati ergo ex fide pacem habeamus ad Deum per Dominum nostrum Iesum Christum per quem habemus accessum per fidem in gratiam istam in qua stamus gloriamar in spe gloriae filiorum Dei. Being iustified by faith therefore let vs bee at peace with God through our Lord Iesus Christ by whom wée haue accesse through faith into this grace wherein wée stand and doo reioyce in the hope of the glorie of the children of God To take from you all occasion of quarrelling I haue cited the words of S. Paule as I finde them in your allowed latine translation Although I doo know that in the gréeke it is thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Pacem habemus And not habeamus Wée haue peace and let vs not haue peace but to a simple meaning minde the sence is all one whether wée say wee haue peace or let vs haue peace And in the end of the sentence it maketh no difference to say wée glory or reioyce in the hope of the sonnes of God or wee reioyce in the hope of the glory of God For take it which way yee will Saint Paules meaning must néedes bée that wée are iustified that is wée apprehend and lay hold vpon frée discharge of our sinnes that wée haue by the mediation of Christ onely by faith and by none other meane And againe in the second Chapter to the Ephesians Ephe. 2. Saint Paule writeth thus Gratia enim estis saluati per fidem hoc non ex vobis Dei enim dâ—num est non ex operibus ne quis glorietur For by grace that is frée mercy you are saued thorough faith and that not 〈…〉 selues For it is the gifte of God and commeth not of workes least any man should boaste The Epistles of the Apostle Paule are full of matter to prooue this pointe of doctrine to bee true The second pointe of doctrine is as you doo terme it the contempt of good workes and that they bee all vncleane in the sight of God Wee contemne not good workes but wée esteeme of them as they ought to bee esteemed of that is as of the good fruites of a good faith And wée teach that no workes may bée accounted good otherwise or in any other respect but as they bée the fruits of a good faith This point of doctrine was taught by our sauiour Christ when hée sayd thus Lucae 17. Cum feceritis omnia quae praecepta sunt vobis Lucae 17. dicite serui inutiles sumus Quod de buimus facere fecimus When yee shall haue doone all that you are commaunded to doo then say we are vnprofitable seruants We haue doone that our duety was to doo And againe in the 20. of Mathew Math. 20. in the Parable of the labourers that laboured in the Vineyarde Volo autem
assisted mee but all men left mee alone God graunt it bee not layde to their charge c. If this Offerer his fellowes haue any eyes to sée they may sée that when the Apostle Paule being in prison in Rome did write this Epistle to Timoth. the Bishops and priests that then were in Rome were scarce worthy the name of Christians bicause they durst not stand to the profession of Christian Religion as S. Paule did but left him all alone betraying the Christian cause as much as in them lay Yea and hereof it may bée probably gathered that Peter was not then at Rome and consequently that hee was not Bishop of Rome for the space of xxv yéeres togither as the Romish Catholiques doo affirme that hee was Yea rather it may bée thought that hee neuer was Bishop of Rome for this Epistle was written in Rome the 13. yeere of the raigne of Nero which was the 35. yeere after saint Paule was conuerted to Christ But if hee were then Bishop of Rome hée was at that time either fled from Rome fearing the persecution or els being in that Citie hée durst not shew him selfe to bée of one minde with Paule and so by his example the rest that then were Christians in Rome withdrew them selues from Paule and left him all alone Thirteene yeeres before this the Apostle Paule had written to the Romaines being then at Corinth in the last yeere of the raigne of Claudius the Emperour And as it appeareth in the first Chapter of that Epistle the fame of that Church was such at that time that saint Paule wrote thus Primum quidem gratias ago Deo meo Rom. 1 per Iesum Christum pro omnibus vobis quia fides vestra annuntiatur in vniuerso mundo First of all I giue thankes to my God thorough Iesus Christ on the behalfe of you all for that your faith is declared through out the whole world The Church therefore or Congregation of Christians that then were in Rome were of the best sort of Christians And bicause that Citie was then the chiefe City that then was in the world therefore the fame of their faith was spred ouer all the world But yet as appeareth by that which is before alleaged they had their faults and infirmities which were seene in them more at one time then at another At the first when they receiued the doctrine of the gospell they were earnest professors and followers of the same as commonly men haue bin in our daies and are still but when persecution began to arise for the professing thereof they began to shew them selues to bee like that seede that being sowne fell in stony ground and yet being againe moystened with that dew of Gods grace which fell from aboue they tooke déepe roote and so became more fruitfull in the ende For many of that age gaue their liues for the testimony of the truth and were Martirs or witnesses of Iesus Christ as in the Church Histories dooth appeere But that these were the writers of the Scriptures appeareth not in any Histories for they were written before some by the Prophets and some by the Apostles and such bookes as were written after the time wherein the other Apostles liued were written by the Apostle Iohn which liued after all the rest As touching the especiall care that you say the Catholique Church hath from time to time had not only of preaching the word but also of preseruing the same c all learned Protestants doo know that no man could haue greater care to preach the woord to discerne the bookes of holy scripture from prophane writings and to preserue them from the corruption of the aduersaries then they that in the time of the tenne first persecutions professed the Catholique religion And amongst those Catholiques none were more forwarde therein then were they which then were dwelling in the City of Rome But what maketh this for proofe that the Romish Church hath alwaies bin and is still the keeper and preseruer of the scriptures The first Romish Church which was Catholique preached the gospell as the Apostles and Disciples of Christ had doone but that Romish church that now is and hath bin for the space of these last thousand yéeres almost being Antichristian dooth and hath all this while preached mens traditions is to bee noted with that saying that the Prophet Esay vsed in reprehending the Leuiticall Priestes of his time Esay 29. Esay 29. Cited by our sauiour Christ Math. 15. Math. 15. Populus hic labijs me honorat c. This people honour mee with their lips they draw nighe vnto mée with their mouth but their heart is farre from mée In vaine doo they worship mée in teaching the doctrines and commaundements of men c. The first Romish Church vsed the Sacraments that Christ had instituted religiously and to that end that our sauiour Christ had instituted them for but that Romishe Church which you call Catholique hath for the space of these 1000. yeeres almost and dooth still abuse those Sacraments namely Baptisme and the Supper of the Lord commonly called the Sacrament of the body and blood of our sauiour Christ For that Church dooth minister that sacrament to Churches to Belles and to Ships that saile on the seas and of the other sacrament they make an Idole lifting it vp ouer their heads to bee worshipped setting it vpon their high alter or hanging it ouer the same burning incense before it and vsing iestures of diuine honour before it and carying it abroade in pompous maner compelling the people to doo diuine honour to it Yea they offer it vp to God as a sacrifice for the sinnes both of the quick the dead and in tempests of weather and in coniurations they make it a bug to feare the diuell withall The first Catholique Church in their exercise of Religion did vse as few Ceremonies as might bee for they knew that our sauiour Christ had broken downe that midle walle or particion which was the lawe of Ceremonies contayned in the lawe written and had through the flesh bin the occasion that discord whereby the nations of the worlde were so seuered from the people of Israell that they could neuer ioyne with them in one religion till our sauiour Christ had made it voyde and made of both the people 's but one new man making peace that he might reconcile both in one body And Ephe. 2. Ephe. 2. But your Romish Catholique Church hath reedified a new middle walle or particion of a law of Ceremonies not contayned in the law written but diuised by men And that particion they doo still maintaine and vphold enforcing all men that will beare the name of Christ and bée called Christians to allow of and to vse those Ceremonies and all such as doo refuse those Ceremonies they doo excommunicate and deliuer to the secular powre to bée consumed to ashes with fire or otherwise to bée tormented onely bicause they refuse to vse
feare and nurture of the Lord and to the prayse of God for the preseruation and kéeping of theyr bodyes vndefiled members of Christs body and for the mutuall society helpe and comfort that maryed persons ought to haue the one of the other Your extreame vnction we doo not onely denie to bée a Sacrament because we finde in Histories that Pope Foelix the fourth of that name that occupied the place of the Papacie about 525 yéeres after the incarnation of our Sauiour Christ was the first that tooke order for the anoynting of the bodyes of such as lay in dying with oyle But also because the manner of the vsing of it is too too full of superstition We allowe of a religious visiting of the sicke according to the councell of S. Iames chap. 5. And wee doo vnderstand by the annoynting with oyle that S. Iames speaketh of the applying of naturall remedies to the sicke persons which beeing ioyned with prayer must néedes bee the more effectuall as by that place of S. Iames it may verie well be gathered And thus much I haue thought méete to write concerning the Sacramentes which Christ hath instituted and are now vsed in that Church wherof we Protestantes are and haue béene vsed in that Church euer since they were first instituted by Christ himselfe And because your sorte doo make accounte of fiue other Sacramentes in déede I haue written bréefely of them also The Catholique Church whereof we Protestantes are members hath from tyme to tyme had the hearing of matters in controuesie and so hath it still so farre foorth as the same may appertaine vnto her to iudge of them That is where and when the parties that be at controuersie do submit themselues to her iudgement For what hath she to doo with them that be without As S. Paule wrote to the Corrinthians 1. Cor. 5. 1 Cor. 5. Such as are not of the societie of the members of Christ are not to be iudged by the church of Christ And as touching the orderly succession of Bishops wee are able to shewe by the Histories of the Church that our Church hath had aboue 60. Bishops in Rome successiuely one after another whereof the greatest number were good men and carefull to gouerne the flocke committed to their charge as S. Paule wished the Elders or Bishops of Eph. to doo Act. 20. But here the Offerer must note that none of these was called or would be called vniuersal Bishops or vniuersal heads Acts 20. of the vniuersal church of Christ They knew that the charge that was committed vnto them in Roome and in the Churches of the prouince was great enough for them they sought for no more charge But when any other Bishops dyd séeke to them for councell they were readye to helpe them to the vttermost of theyr power but none of them did claime any power or authority ouer the rest The rest of the Bishoppes in Roome that succéeded Gregorie the first namely Boniface the third and such as succéeded him were Antichristian Bishops and therefore wee refuse them as none of ours Neither is it so necessarie a matter to haue so orderly a succession of Bishoppes in any one Cittie in the christian worlde as in the first 600. hundreth yéeres after Christ there was in Roome But because the cittie Roome was then and had béene of long tyme before the chéefe cittie of the whole world the peoples that inhabited in other Citties and partes of the world owing seruice to the state of Roome had occasion to repaire thether and therefore euen the christians that had theyr dwelling else where had the Bishoppes and other Church ministers that were in Roome in greater estimation then they had those men that were of the lyke calling euen in the citties wherein they themselues had theyr aboade and dwelling And hereof it might come that greter account was made of the succession of those Bishops that were Bishoppes of Roome then of those that were in Millen Constantinople Ierusalem Hippo or in any other part of the whole world But if this orderly succession of bishops that so great accoūt is made of were well weighed it would not bee founde so certaine as thys Offerer and his fellowes would faine haue it séeme to bée S Austine whose anthoritie is not to bee contemned hauing occasion to make mention of this succession placeth Linus next vnto Peter and maketh no mention at all of Cletus and so he maketh in this succession lesse by one then the common account is Some others doo suppose that Linus and Cletus were but Peters coadiutors and not Bishops of Roome at all For Peter him selfe sayd vnto Clement I giue vnto thée the same power of binding and loosing that Christ left vnto me and so he made Clement hys immediate successour Yea there be some that doo thinke and I doo thinke that they haue some good cause so to thinke that Peter him selfe was neuer Bishop of Roome But let the succession of Bishops in the first 600. yéeres be euen such as this Offerer and his fellowes doo suppose it to be yet the succession that hath bene since the end of those first 600 yeres is not so currant as they do auouch it to be For it appeareth in Histories that the seate of Roome hath béene voyde for the space of whole yéere togeather yea for the space of two yéeres and more and that there haue béene two Popes yea thrée Popes at one time where of one hath excommunicated the other and no man was able to say which of them shold by the right successour of Peter I would gladly vnderstand by this Offerer and his fellowes what manner of succession that was when aboute the yéere of our Lord 855. Ioane English borne at Mensse béeing a woman in sexe and nature was made Pope and continued so for the space of two yéeres I thinke they will not say that this was an orderly succession To bée bréefe the succession of the Romane Bishoppes since the time of Bonifacius 3. hath béene such as the succession of high Préests was in the kingdome of Israell from the time of the falling away of the tenne kindreds from the house of Iuda euen to the time wherein they were caried away by the Assirians and lyke the succession of high Préests amongst the Iewes from the first beginning of the Sects of the Phariseis and Saduces amongst them euen to that time wherein that kingdome was vtterly ouerthrowne by the Romanes And as the right professours of the lawe of God in Israell and Iuda which vndoubtedly were many had in al this tyme no succession of highe Préestes so such as in these latter 1000 yéeres haue béene the right Catholiques haue had no succession of Bishops but haue receiued theyr spirituall foode at the hands of such pastors as God hath from time to time stirred vp as he stirred vp Prophets in Iuda Israel in those times wherof I haue spoken before as often as it hath pleased
Bishop Fyshar Sir Thomas Moore the Monkes of the charter house with all the rest of the Popes friends that suffered in the daies of King Henry the eight and Edmond Campion with his companie and the rest that haue bene executed in the time of the raigne of our Soueraigne that now is for what cause haue they suffered was it not for that they affirmed that the Popes holines hath the supreme power in this realme that princes haue not the highest power vpon earth ouer such as be their subiectes This cause can not bee Christs cause for Christ did in his humaine nature submit him selfe to the Emperor in that hee him selfe did pay tribute to the Emperor in token of subiection Mat. 17. Mat 17. S. Peter willeth all christians to submit them selues to all estates of men euen for the Lords sake whether it be to the king as to him that hath the preheminence or to the Dukes or captaines as to men whom the Lord hath sent for the punishment of euill dooers but for the praise of such as bée good for so is the will of God that Christians should by well dooing stop the ignoraunce of foolish men c. 1. Pet. 2. 1 Peter 2. S. Paule also wrote thus to the Romaines Omnis anima potestatibus sublimioribus subdita sit c. Let euery soule be subiect to the higher powers c. Rom. 13. Rom. 13. Chrysostome expounding these woords of S. Paule saith thus Etiam si Apostolus sis si Euangelista si Propheta siue quisquis tandem fueris c. Although thou be an Apostle if thou bée an Euangelist if thou be a Prophet and to conclude who or what so euer thou béest For saith Chrysostome this subiection dooth not subuert godlinesse And hée saith not simply hée must obay but hée saith Chrysost in Rom. 13. subdita sit It must bée in subiection By these woords of Chrysostome it appeereth what maner of Martyrs they are that haue died for the mainetenaunce of your Popes supreme powre ouer all Christians vpon earth If Chrysostome were now liuing and would maintaine this that hee hath written your Pope would make him a Martyr in déed if hée might catch him as hee hath and still dooth make Martyrs of all such as hée hath and can catch that bee of one minde with Chrysostome Your Confessors are euen such as your Martyrs and so are your Virgins with the rest that you meane of when you say and such other Now let the Protestant prooue say you that this is not the true Church that we are not bound to obay and belieue this Church and none other in all controuersies and doubts c. The Protestant hath already prooued that the church that you meane of which is the Romaine Antichristian church is not the true Church of Christ and that it hath not in it those things that you doo so much brag of It hath not continuance as yet for the space of 1000. yéeres It hath not neither dooth it exercise preaching to the conuersion of nations to the obedience of the gospell but to the obedience of Antichristian doctrine It hath not had neither hath it the right administration of the sacraments but with such mixture of humaine diuises as is vnséemely in the Church of Christ It hath not had neither hath it any such orderly succession of bishops as you brag of neither any such vniformitie of solemne Ceremonies It hath not had at any time neither hath it now such vnitie of faith as you speake of nor the holy functions of the spirite as working of Miracles remission of sinnes nor the true sense and interpretation of the woord of God Neither is it beautified with that diuersitie of states that you speake of as Martyrs Confessors and Virgins such other wherefore the Protestant concludeth that there is no cause why he should obay and belieue that church of yours no more is there that you should not yeelde and recant The Twentith offer Offerer Twentith Moreouer let the learned Protestant proue that the true and Catholike church of Christ may at any time bee voide of Gods spirit which he hath promised to be with his Church for euer saying Et ego rogabo patrem et alium paracletum dabit vobis Iohn 14. vt maneat vobiscum in aeternū or falsly to interpret any sentence of holy scripture or to induce any erroure among the people or approoue vnprofitable and hurtfull vsages amonge the Christians or that shee suffereth any damnable abuse in her religion without open repredhension thereof Let the learned Protestant prooue any of these points and I will then yeelde and recant and not before Crowley The true Catholique church of Christ in déed is neuer voyde of Gods spirite Yea there is not one member of that church which hath not that spirite dwelling in it in some measure For thus the Apostle Paule hath written to the Romaines Si quis autem spiritum Christi non habet hie non est eius If there be any that hath not the spirite of Christ the same belongeth not to him Rom. 8. Rom. 8 I doo confesse therefore that the true Catholique church of Christ is neuer voide of Gods spirit But according to the words that this Offerer hath cited out of the 14. cha of Iohn Iohn 14 our sauiour Christ hath sent another comforter which is the holy spirit of God to be with his Church for euer But what maketh this for M. Offerers purpose Hee must prooue that the church of Rome being such as now it is hath bin for the space of a thousand yéeres almost is that true Catholique church of Christ and then these pointes will serue him to some purpose otherwise they doo make flatly against him Taking your church to bee the true Catholike church of Christ you offer to yéelde and recant if the Protestant can prooue that your church hath fasly interpreted any one sentence of the holy scripture The Protestant hath alreain his answere to your 19. offer sufficiently prooued that your whole church hath in the 25. session of your Tridentine counsell falsly interpreted or rather flatly denied mo then one two or thrée sentences of the holy scriptures as to the indifferent Reader it may there most euidently apeere wherefore wée doo looke for the performance of your promise in yéelding and recanting That your church hath induced doth still induce errors amongst the people hath approued and doth still approoue vnprofitable and hurtfull vsages amongst Christians hath suffered and dooth still suffer damnable abuses in religion without open reprehention is more manifest then that which lyeth open in the cleare sunne light Wherefore the Protestant néedeth not to spend any time in the proofe therof It may suffice to put the reader in minde of those shamelesse errors that your church hath taught dooth still teach and maintaine concerning the inuocation of Angelles and Saints the praying for the deade
Protestant to shew cause and reason why our congregations doo those things that neuer any of our congregations did Can this Offerer prooue that euer any congregation of Protestants did admit and receiue all bishops priests deacons and other spirituall officers c. Wée doo in déede receiue the men that haue bin bishops Priests and deacons c. And finding them meete to serue either in the places that they serued in before or in any other wée doo employ them in seruice in those places that we finde them méete for And thus we doo not bicause they haue bin ordered after your Antichristian maner but bicause wee sée in them manifest signes of repētance that euer they yéelded to be made ministers of Antichristian religion do desire to be admitted to serue God in the ministration of the true right religion of Christ As for your shauing your clipping annoynting that you doo vse in the ordring consecrating of your bishops priests deacons we estéeme as lightly of it as you either doo or can estéeme of our maner of ordering and consecrating of ministers of all sortes Wée know that no ceremonies that are or can be vsed in this behalfe either by you or by vs doo or can giue any ability to the persons towards whom those ceremonies are vsed in the admitting of them but we doo vse them as meanes to put those persons in remembrance of those duties that doo belonge to them in the office calling whereunto they are called admitted We doo not thinke that you doo or can by your ceremonies imprimere characterē indelebilem that is imprint into such as you doo order a marke that can not be blotted out so that your priestes being once made priestes must continue so for euer Neither doo we thinke it necessary to degrad your priests when they returne vnto vs from your Antichristian religion as you vse to doo before you deliuer them to the seculer power when you haue cōdemned them for heresie For we know that the marke of the beast which they receiued at your hands is blotted out by their hearty and vnfained repentance the signes wherof we sée in them before we doo admit them to serue in any calling amongst vs either Ecclesiasticall or Ciuill You might much better haue charged vs with consenting vnto and allowing of the lawfulnes of your priests bishops bicause we be not rebaptised but then perhaps you think we would charge you with the like consent and approouing of the lawfulnes of our ministery for that you doo not rebaptise such as haue bin baptised by vs. But to be short I conclude thus Though we doo receiue such as doo come from you as S. Paule was receiued comming from the Phariseis doo admit them to such offices amongst vs as wee finde them méete for as S. Paule was admitted to the office of preaching ministration of sacraments yet we doo not thereby consent vnto or allow of the lawfulnes of your Antichristian ministers more then the church that receiued S. Paule cōming from the Phariseis did thereby consent vnto or allow of the sect of the Phariseis If this be a cause reason sufficient as I think it is why the Protestants should neither take your Antichristian ministers to be méete ministers of Christes religion so longe as they remaine amongst you nor refuse them when they shall repent bring forth fruits worthy méete for repentance and yet notwithstanding account take your church for Antichristian then I require you M. Offerer to fulfill your promise and recant although you haue hitherto refused so to doo The Thriteenth offer Offerer Thirteenth I require of the learned Protestant to expresse what furniture furdrance or cōmoditie to the honor serurce of God did christianity or any part of Christendome receiue by his church or congregations what temple or church did you build at any time for your assēbles and seruice of God what bishopricks for the better gouernment of the church did you founde or procure what vniuersities schooles or colledges did you at any time erect for the maintenance of christian doctrine faith and religion when the learned Protestant shal be able to prooue by ecclesiasticall histories and old auncient writers these things to be monuments of their conuenticles and priuate congregations of their faith and religion and not of the common knowne faith religion and Catholique church of Christ then I shall in like maner yeelde and recant and not before Crowley If this Offerer had liued in the dayes of the prophets or of the Apostles hée would haue kept a iolly stur with them for none of them were builders of Temples Synagogues or Churches neither were they Founders of vniuersities schooles or colledges And yet was their faith and religion fruitfull so is ours though none such fruits as this Offerer speaketh of should spring thereout And yet I doo know that these are good works I hope I shal be able to prooue that the Protestants Catholique church hath not bin neither is slack in dooing these works when hability and oportunity may serue them If I might be so bolde with M. Offerer I would demaund of him require him to expresse who it was that builded S. Peters church in Rome and the rest of the most auncient churches in that citie I think he would answere with spéede say thus it was Constantine the first christened Emperor If hée shall so say he shal say truly for so hath Platina and other more auncient Hystorians written But here is the question whether this Constantine were a Protestant Catholike or such a Catholike as this Offerer is For we hold that hee was a protestant Catholike and this Offerer holdeth the contrary The matter then resteth vpon proofe I doo thinke that I haue already prooued sufficiently that Constantine liuing raigning in the end of the first 300. yéeres after Christ could not be an Antichristian catholike as this Offerer is bicause the great Antichrist was not as yet spronge vp although many Antichrists or false Prophets were in the world euen when the Apostle Iohn worte his first Epistle as in the 4. Chap. thereof it appeareth but that great Antichrist that S. Paule nameth the man of sin 2. Thes 2. did not begin to shew himselfe in the world before the daies of Bonifacius the third that tooke vpon himselfe the name estate of the vniuersall head of Christs vniuersall church And that was the time wherein your Schismaticall church fell away from that true Catholike church whereof Constantine was and wée that beare the name of Protestants now bée The bishopricks also that were appointed or founded at any time within the first 600. yéeres after Christ all the Vniuersities Schooles Colledges that were foūded with in that time were founded builded by protestant Catholiques For although many corruptions were spronge vp in the Catholike church whereof wée be before the end of the first 600.