and_o without_o choice_n by_o which_o their_o most_o hate_a adversary_n climb_v up_o and_o can_v not_o cry_v up_o themselves_o and_o their_o cause_n as_o they_o do_v but_o by_o they_o and_o divine_n of_o all_o the_o rest_n may_v learn_v and_o teach_v this_o wisdom_n if_o they_o will_v since_o they_o see_v all_o other_o profession_n which_o help_v to_o bear_v down_o their_o ceremony_n keep_v up_o their_o own_o therewhile_o and_o that_o to_o the_o high_a i_o have_v be_v too_o bold_a to_o detain_v your_o majesty_n so_o long_o but_o my_o grief_n to_o see_v christendom_n bleed_v in_o dissension_n and_o which_o be_v worse_o triumph_v in_o her_o own_o blood_n and_o most_o angry_a with_o they_o that_o will_v study_v her_o peace_n have_v thus_o transport_v i_o for_o true_o it_o can_v but_o grieve_v any_o man_n that_o have_v bowel_n to_o see_v all_o man_n seek_v but_z as_o s._n paul_n foretell_v phil._n 2._o their_o own_o thing_n and_o not_o the_o thing_n which_o 21._o be_v jesus_n christ_n sua_fw-la their_o own_o sure_o for_o the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n have_v nothing_o to_o do_v with_o they_o and_o to_o see_v religion_n so_o much_o so_o zealous_o pretend_v and_o call_v upon_o make_v but_o the_o stalking-horse_n to_o shoot_v at_o other_o fowl_n upon_o which_o their_o aim_n be_v set_v in_o the_o mean_a time_n as_o if_o all_o be_v truth_n and_o holiness_n itself_o no_o salvation_n must_v be_v possible_a do_v it_o lie_v at_o their_o mercy_n but_o in_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o one_o and_o in_o the_o conventicle_n of_o the_o other_o as_o if_o either_o of_o these_o now_o be_v as_o the_o donatist_n of_o old_a repute_v themselves_o the_o only_a man_n in_o who_o christ_n at_o his_o come_n to_o judgement_n shall_v find_v faith_n no_o faith_n 48._o s._n augustine_n and_o so_o say_v i_o with_o he_o dam_fw-la veniam_fw-la non_fw-la credimus_fw-la pardon_v we_o i_o pray_v we_o can_v believe_v it_o the_o catholic_a church_n of_o christ_n be_v neither_o rome_n nor_o a_o conventicle_n out_o of_o that_o there_o be_v no_o salvation_n i_o easy_o confess_v it_o but_o out_o of_o rome_n there_o be_v and_o out_o of_o a_o conventicle_n too_o salvation_n iâ—_n not_o shut_v up_o into_o such_o a_o narrow_a conclave_n in_o this_o ensue_a discourse_n therefore_o i_o have_v endeavour_v to_o lay_v open_a those_o wider-gate_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n confine_v to_o no_o age_n time_n or_o place_n nor_o know_v any_o bound_n but_o that_o faith_n which_o be_v once_o and_o but_o once_o for_o all_o deliver_v to_o the_o saint_n s._n judas_n 3_o and_o in_o my_o pursuit_n of_o this_o way_n i_o have_v 3._o search_v after_o and_o deliver_v with_o a_o single_a heart_n that_o truth_n which_o i_o profess_v in_o the_o publish_n whereof_o i_o have_v obey_v your_o majesty_n discharge_v my_o duty_n to_o my_o power_n to_o the_o church_n of_o england_n 15._o give_v account_n of_o the_o hope_n that_o be_v in_o i_o and_o so_o testify_v to_o the_o world_n that_o faith_n in_o which_o i_o have_v live_v and_o by_o god_n blessing_n and_o favour_n purpose_n to_o die_v but_o till_o death_n shall_v most_o unfeigned_o remain_v your_o majesty_n most_o faithful_a subject_n and_o most_o humble_a and_o oblige_a servant_n w._n cant_n a_o relation_n of_o the_o conference_n between_o william_n lawd_n then_o l._n bishop_n of_o s._n david_n afterward_o lord_n archbishop_n of_o canterbury_z and_o m._n fisher_n the_o jesuit_n f._n the_o occasion_n of_o this_o conference_n be_v b._n §_o 1_o the_o occasion_n of_o this_o three_o conference_n you_o shall_v know_v sufficient_o you_o be_v a_o actor_n in_o it_o as_o well_o as_o in_o two_o other_o whether_o you_o have_v relate_v the_o two_o former_a true_o appear_v by_o d._n white_n the_o late_a reverend_a l._n bishop_n of_o ely_n his_o relation_n or_o exposition_n of_o they_o i_o be_v present_a at_o none_o but_o this_o three_o of_o which_o i_o here_o give_v the_o church_n a_o account_n but_o of_o this_o three_o whether_o that_o be_v the_o cause_n which_o you_o allege_v i_o can_v tell_v you_o say_v f._n it_o be_v observe_v that_o in_o the_o second_o conference_n all_o the_o speech_n be_v about_o particular_a matter_n little_a or_o none_o about_o a_o continual_a infallible_a visible_a church_n which_o be_v the_o chief_a and_o only_o point_v in_o which_o a_o certain_a lady_n require_v satisfaction_n as_o have_v former_o settle_v in_o her_o mind_n that_o it_o be_v not_o for_o she_o or_o any_o other_o unlearned_a person_n to_o take_v upon_o they_o to_o judge_v of_o particular_n without_o depend_v upon_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o true_a church_n b._n §_o 2_o the_o opinion_n of_o that_o honourable_a person_n in_o this_o be_v never_o open_v to_o i_o and_o it_o be_v very_o fit_a the_o people_n shall_v look_v to_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n before_o they_o be_v too_o busy_a with_o particular_n but_o yet_o neither_o 15._o scripture_n nor_o any_o good_a authority_n deny_v they_o some_o moderate_a use_n of_o their_o own_o understanding_n and_o judgement_n especial_o in_o thing_n familiar_a and_o evident_a which_o even_o deny_v ordinary_a capacity_n may_v as_o easy_o understand_v as_o read_v and_o therefore_o some_o particular_n a_o christian_n may_v judge_v without_o depend_v f._n this_o lady_n therefore_o have_v hear_v it_o grant_v in_o the_o first_o conference_n that_o there_o must_v be_v a_o continual_a visible_a company_n ever_o since_o christ_n teach_v unchanged_a doctrine_n in_o all_o fundamental_a point_n that_o be_v point_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n desire_v to_o hear_v this_o confirm_v and_o proof_n bring_v which_o be_v that_o continual_a infallible_a visible_a church_n in_o which_o one_o may_v and_o out_o of_o which_o one_o can_v attain_v salvation_n and_o therefore_o have_v appoint_v a_o time_n of_o meet_v between_o a_o b._n and_o i_o and_o thereupon_o have_v send_v for_o the_o b._n and_o i_o before_o the_o b._n come_v the_o lady_n and_o a_o friend_n of_o she_o come_v first_o to_o the_o room_n where_o i_o be_v and_o debate_v before_o i_o the_o aforesaid_a question_n and_o not_o doubt_v of_o the_o first_o part_n to_o wit_n that_o there_o must_v be_v a_o continual_a visible_a church_n as_o they_o have_v hear_v grant_v by_o d._n white_a and_o l._n k._n etc._n etc._n b._n num._n 1_o §_o 3_o what_o d._n white_a and_o l._n k._n grant_v i_o hear_v not_o but_o i_o think_v both_o grant_v a_o continual_a and_o a_o visible_a church_n neitherof_o they_o a_o infallible_a at_o least_o in_o your_o sense_n and_o yourself_o in_o this_o relation_n speak_v distract_o for_o in_o these_o few_o line_n from_o the_o begin_n hither_o twice_o you_o add_v infallible_a between_o continual_a and_o visible_a and_o twice_o you_o leave_v it_o out_o but_o this_o concern_v d._n w._n and_o he_o have_v answer_v it_o num._n 2_o here_o a._n c._n step_n in_o and_o say_v the_o jesuit_n do_v not_o speak_v distract_o but_o most_o advise_o for_o say_v he_o where_o he_o relate_v 42._o what_o d._n white_a or_o l._n k._n grant_v he_o leave_v out_o the_o word_n infallible_a because_o they_o grant_v it_o not_o but_o where_o he_o speak_v of_o the_o lady_n there_o he_o add_v it_o because_o the_o jesuit_n know_v it_o be_v a_o infallible_a church_n which_o she_o seek_v to_o rely_v upon_o how_o far_o the_o catholic_n militant_a church_n of_o christ_n be_v infallible_a be_v no_o dispute_n for_o this_o place_n though_o you_o shall_v find_v it_o after_o but_o sure_a the_o jesuit_n do_v not_o speak_v most_o advise_o nor_o a._n c._n neither_o nor_o the_o lady_n herself_o if_o she_o say_v she_o desire_v to_o rely_v upon_o a_o infallible_a church_n for_o a_o infallible_a church_n denote_v a_o particular_a church_n in_o that_o it_o be_v set_v in_o opposition_n to_o some_o other_o particular_a church_n that_o be_v not_o infallible_a now_o i_o for_o my_o part_n do_v not_o know_v what_o that_o lady_n desire_v to_o rely_v upon_o this_o i_o know_v if_o she_o desire_v such_o a_o particular_a church_n neither_o this_o jesuit_n nor_o any_o other_o be_v able_a to_o show_v it_o she_o no_o not_o bellarmine_n himself_o though_o of_o very_o great_a ability_n to_o make_v good_a any_o truth_n which_o he_o undertake_v for_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n 61._o but_o no_o strength_n can_v uphold_v a_o error_n against_o truth_n where_o truth_n have_v a_o able_a defendant_n now_o where_o bellarmine_n set_v himself_o purposely_o to_o make_v this_o good_a that_o fide_fw-la the_o particular_a church_n of_o rome_n can_v err_v in_o matter_n of_o faith_n out_o of_o which_o it_o follow_v that_o there_o may_v be_v find_v a_o particular_a infallible_a church_n you_o shall_v see_v what_o he_o be_v able_a to_o perform_v num._n 3_o 1_o first_o then_o after_o he_o have_v distinguish_v to_o express_v his_o meaning_n in_o what_o sense_n the_o
hinder_v it_o now_o to_o be_v since_o that_o do_v not_o depart_v from_o the_o protestant_a church_n but_o the_o protestant_a church_n from_o it_o true_o i_o neither_o suspect_v the_o inference_n will_v be_v make_v nor_o fear_v it_o when_o it_o be_v make_v for_o it_o be_v no_o news_n that_o any_o particular_a church_n roman_n as_o well_o as_o another_o may_v once_o have_v be_v right_o and_o afterward_o wrong_a and_o in_o far_o worse_a case_n and_o so_o it_o be_v in_o rome_n after_o the_o enemy_n have_v sow_v tare_n among_o the_o wheat_n 25._o s._n mat._n 13._o but_o whether_o these_o tare_n be_v sow_v while_o their_o bishop_n sleep_v or_o whether_o finem_fw-la they_o themselves_o do_v not_o help_v to_o sow_v they_o be_v too_o large_a a_o disquisition_n for_o this_o place_n so_o though_o it_o be_v once_o right_o yet_o the_o tare_n which_o grow_v thick_a in_o it_o be_v the_o cause_n why_o it_o be_v not_o so_o now_o and_o then_o though_o that_o church_n do_v not_o depart_v from_o the_o protestant_n church_n yet_o if_o it_o give_v great_a and_o just_a cause_n for_o the_o protestant_a church_n to_o depart_v from_o the_o error_n of_o it_o while_o it_o in_o some_o particular_n depart_v from_o the_o truth_n of_o christ_n it_o come_v all_o to_o one_o for_o this_o particular_a that_o the_o roman_a church_n which_o be_v once_o right_a be_v now_o become_v wrong_a by_o embrace_v superstition_n and_o error_n f._n farther_o he_o confess_v that_o protestant_n have_v make_v a_o rent_n and_o division_n from_o it_o b._n §_o 21_o num._n 1_o i_o confess_v i_o can_v here_o be_v hearty_o â—_o angry_a but_o that_o i_o have_v resolve_v in_o handle_v matter_n of_o religion_n to_o leave_v all_o gall_n out_o of_o my_o ink_n for_o i_o never_o grant_v that_o the_o roman_a church_n either_o be_v or_o be_v the_o right_a church_n it_o be_v too_o true_a indeed_o that_o there_o be_v a_o miserable_a rent_n in_o the_o church_n and_o i_o make_v no_o question_n but_o the_o best_a man_n do_v most_o bemoan_v it_o 1._o nor_o be_v he_o a_o christian_n that_o will_v not_o have_v unity_n may_v he_o have_v it_o with_o truth_n but_o i_o never_o 7._o say_v nor_o think_v that_o the_o protestant_n make_v this_o rent_n the_o cause_n of_o the_o schism_n be_v you_o for_o you_o thrust_v we_o from_o you_o because_o we_o call_v for_o truth_n and_o redress_v of_o abuses_n for_o a_o faith_n schism_n must_v needs_o be_v they_o who_o the_o cause_n of_o it_o be_v the_o woe_n run_v full_a out_o of_o the_o mouth_n of_o *_o christ_n ever_o against_o he_o that_o give_v the_o offence_n not_o against_o he_o that_o take_v it_o ever_o but_o you_o have_v by_o this_o carriage_n give_v i_o just_a cause_n never_o to_o treat_v with_o you_o or_o your_o like_a but_o before_o a_o judge_n or_o a_o jury_n 7._o num._n 2_o but_o here_o a._n c._n tell_v i_o i_o have_v no_o cause_n to_o be_v angry_a either_o with_o the_o jesuit_n or_o myself_o not_o with_o the_o jesuit_n for_o he_o write_v down_o 56._o my_o word_n in_o fresh_a memory_n and_o upon_o special_a notice_n take_v of_o the_o passage_n and_o that_o i_o do_v say_v either_o iisdem_fw-la or_o aequipollentibus_fw-la verbis_fw-la either_o in_o these_o or_o equivalent_a word_n that_o the_o protestant_n do_v make_v the_o rent_n or_o division_n from_o the_o roman_a church_n what_o do_v the_o jesuit_n set_v down_o my_o word_n in_o fresh_a memory_n and_o upon_o special_a notice_n take_v and_o be_v they_o so_o few_o as_o these_o the_o protestant_n do_v make_v the_o schism_n and_o yet_o be_v his_o memory_n so_o short_a that_o he_o can_v tell_v whether_o i_o utter_v this_o iisdem_fw-la or_o aequipollentibus_fw-la verbis_fw-la well_o i_o will_v a._n c._n and_o his_o fellow_n will_v leave_v this_o art_n of_o they_o and_o in_o conference_n which_o 57_o they_o be_v so_o ready_a to_o call_v for_o impose_v no_o more_o upon_o other_o man_n than_o they_o utter_v and_o you_o may_v observe_v too_o that_o after_o all_o this_o full_a assertion_n that_o i_o speak_v this_o iisdem_fw-la or_o aequipollentibus_fw-la verbis_fw-la a._n c._n conclude_v thus_o the_o jesuit_n take_v special_a notice_n in_o fresh_a memory_n 55._o and_o be_v sure_a he_o relate_v at_o least_o in_o sense_n just_a as_o it_o be_v utter_v what_o be_v this_o at_o least_o in_o sense_n just_a as_o it_o be_v utter_v do_v not_o these_o two_o enterfeire_n and_o show_v the_o jesuit_n to_o be_v upon_o his_o shuffle_a pace_n for_o if_o it_o be_v just_a as_o it_o be_v utter_v than_o it_o be_v in_o the_o very_a form_n of_o word_n too_o not_o in_o sense_n only_o and_o if_o it_o be_v but_o at_o least_o in_o sense_n then_o when_o a._n c._n have_v make_v the_o most_o of_o it_o it_o be_v not_o just_a as_o it_o be_v utter_v beside_o at_o least_o in_o sense_n do_v not_o tell_v we_o in_o who_o sense_n it_o be_v for_o if_o a._n c._n mean_v the_o jesuite_n sense_n of_o it_o he_o may_v make_v what_o sense_n he_o please_v of_o his_o own_o word_n but_o he_o must_v impose_v no_o sense_n of_o he_o upon_o my_o word_n but_o as_o he_o must_v leave_v my_o word_n to_o myself_o so_o when_o my_o word_n be_v utter_v or_o write_v he_o must_v leave_v their_o sense_n either_o to_o i_o or_o to_o that_o genuine_a construction_n which_o a_o ingenuous_a reader_n can_v make_v of_o they_o and_o what_o my_o word_n of_o grant_n be_v i_o have_v before_o express_v and_o their_o sense_n too_o num._n 3_o not_o with_o myself_o that_o be_v the_o next_o for_o a._n c._n say_v it_o be_v truth_n and_o that_o the_o world_n know_v it_o that_o the_o protestant_n do_v depart_v from_o 56._o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o get_v the_o name_n of_o protestant_n by_o protest_v against_o it_o no_o a._n c._n by_o your_o leave_n this_o be_v not_o truth_n neither_o and_o therefore_o i_o have_v reason_n to_o be_v angry_a with_o myself_o have_v i_o grant_v it_o for_o first_o the_o protestant_n do_v not_o depart_v for_o departure_n be_v voluntary_a so_o be_v not_o they_o i_o say_v not_o they_o take_v their_o whole_a body_n and_o cause_n together_o for_o that_o some_o among_o they_o be_v peevish_a and_o some_o ignorant_o zealous_a be_v neither_o to_o be_v doubt_v nor_o be_v there_o danger_n in_o confess_v it_o your_o body_n be_v not_o so_o perfect_a i_o wot_v well_o but_o that_o many_o among_o you_o be_v as_o pettish_a and_o as_o ignorant_o zealous_a as_o any_o of_o we_o you_o must_v not_o suffer_v for_o these_o nor_o we_o for_o those_o nor_o shall_v the_o church_n of_o christ_n for_o either_o next_o the_o protestant_n do_v not_o get_v that_o name_n by_o protest_v against_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n but_o by_o protest_v and_o that_o when_o nothing_o else_o will_v serve_v reformation_n against_o her_o error_n and_o superstition_n do_v you_o but_o remove_v they_o from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o our_o protestation_n be_v end_v and_o the_o separation_n too_o nor_o be_v protestation_n itself_o such_o a_o unheard-of_a thing_n in_o the_o very_a heart_n of_o religion_n for_o the_o sacrament_n both_o of_o the_o 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divide_v themselves_o by_o obstinate_a hold_v and_o teach_v opinion_n contrary_a to_o the_o roman_a faith_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n which_o to_o do_v s._n bernard_n think_v be_v pride_n and_o s._n augustine_n madness_n so_o then_o in_o his_o opinion_n first_o excommunication_n on_o their_o part_n be_v not_o the_o prime_a cause_n of_o this_o division_n but_o the_o hold_n and_o teach_v of_o contrary_a opinion_n why_o but_o then_o in_o my_o opinion_n that_o hold_v and_o teach_v be_v not_o the_o prime_a cause_n neither_o but_o the_o corruption_n and_o superstition_n of_o rome_n which_o force_v many_o man_n to_o hold_v and_o teach_v the_o contrary_n so_o the_o prime_a cause_n be_v they_o still_o second_o a._n
above_o a_o thousand_o year_n ago_o by_o many_o both_o national_a and_o provincial_a synod_n for_o the_o sylvestro_n council_n at_o rome_n under_o pope_n sylvester_n an._n 324._o condemn_v photinus_n and_o sabellius_n and_o their_o heresy_n be_v of_o high_a nature_n against_o the_o faith_n the_o 1._o council_n at_o gangra_n about_o the_o same_o time_n condemn_v eustathius_n for_o his_o condemn_v of_o marriage_n as_o unlawful_a the_o 1._o first_o council_n at_o carthage_n be_v a_o provincial_n condemn_a rebaptisation_n much_o about_o the_o year_n 348._o the_o aquilien_n provincial_a council_n at_o aquileia_n in_o the_o year_n 381._o in_o which_o s._n ambrose_n be_v present_a condemn_v palladius_n and_o secundinus_n for_o embrace_v the_o arrian_n heresy_n the_o 1._o second_o council_n of_o carthage_n handle_v and_o decree_v the_o belief_n and_o preach_v of_o the_o trinity_n and_o this_o a_o little_a after_o the_o year_n 424._o the_o caranzam_n council_n of_o milevis_n in_o africa_n in_o which_o s._n augustine_n be_v present_a condemn_v the_o whole_a course_n of_o the_o heresy_n of_o pelagius_n that_o great_a and_o bewitch_a heresy_n in_o the_o year_n 416._o the_o etc._n second_o council_n at_o orange_n a_o provincial_a too_o handle_v the_o great_a controversy_n about_o grace_n and_o freewill_n and_o set_v the_o church_n right_a in_o they_o in_o the_o year_n 444._o the_o 3_o three_o council_n at_o toledo_n a_o national_a one_o in_o the_o year_n 589._o determine_v many_o thing_n against_o the_o arrian_n heresy_n about_o the_o very_a prime_a article_n of_o faith_n under_o fourteen_o several_a anathema_n the_o four_o council_n at_o toledo_n do_v not_o only_o handle_v matter_n of_o faith_n for_o the_o reformation_n of_o that_o people_n 1._o but_o even_o add_v also_o some_o thing_n to_o the_o creed_n which_o be_v not_o express_o deliver_v in_o former_a creed_n nay_o the_o bishop_n do_v not_o only_o practice_v this_o to_o condemn_v heresy_n in_o national_a and_o provincial_a synod_n and_o so_o reform_v those_o several_a place_n and_o the_o church_n itself_o by_o part_n but_o they_o do_v open_o challenge_v this_o as_o their_o right_n and_o due_a and_o that_o without_o any_o leave_n ask_v of_o the_o sea_n of_o rome_n for_o in_o this_o four_o council_n of_o toledo_n 3._o they_o decree_v that_o if_o there_o happen_v a_o cause_n of_o faith_n to_o be_v settle_v a_o general_n that_o be_v a_o national_a synod_n of_o all_o spain_n and_o galicia_n shall_v be_v hold_v thereon_o and_o this_o in_o the_o year_n 643._o where_o you_o see_v it_o be_v than_o catholic_a doctrine_n in_o all_o spain_n that_o a_o national_a synod_n may_v be_v a_o competent_a judge_n in_o a_o cause_n of_o faith_n and_o i_o will_v fain_o know_v what_o article_n of_o the_o faith_n do_v more_o concern_v all_o christian_n in_o general_a than_o that_o of_o filióque_fw-la and_o yet_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n herself_o make_v that_o addition_n to_o the_o creed_n without_o a_o general_n council_n as_o i_o have_v show_v 2._o already_o and_o if_o this_o be_v practise_v so_o often_o and_o in_o so_o many_o place_n why_o may_v not_o a_o national_a council_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n do_v the_o like_a as_o she_o do_v for_o she_o cast_v off_o the_o pope_n usurpation_n and_o as_o much_o as_o in_o she_o lay_v restore_v the_o king_n to_o his_o right_n that_o appear_v by_o a_o 1534._o book_n subscribe_v by_o the_o bishop_n in_o henry_n the_o eighth_n time_n and_o by_o the_o 1562._o record_n in_o the_o archbishop_n office_n orderly_o keep_v and_o to_o be_v see_v in_o the_o reformation_n which_o come_v after_o our_o faith_n prince_n have_v their_o part_n and_o the_o clergy_n they_o and_o to_o these_o two_o principal_o the_o power_n and_o direction_n for_o reformation_n belong_v that_o our_o prince_n have_v their_o part_n be_v manifest_a by_o their_o call_v together_o of_o the_o bishop_n and_o other_o of_o the_o clergy_n to_o consider_v of_o that_o which_o may_v seem_v worthy_a reformation_n and_o the_o clergy_n do_v their_o part_n for_o be_v thus_o call_v together_o by_o regal_a power_n they_o meet_v in_o the_o national_a synod_n of_o sixty_o two_o and_o the_o article_n there_o agree_v on_o be_v afterward_o confirm_v by_o act_n of_o state_n and_o the_o royal_a assent_n in_o this_o synod_n the_o positive_a truth_n which_o be_v deliver_v be_v more_o than_o the_o polemic_o so_o that_o a_o mere_a calumny_n it_o be_v that_o we_o profess_v only_o a_o negative_a religion_n true_a it_o be_v and_o we_o must_v thank_v rome_n for_o it_o our_o confession_n must_v needs_o contain_v some_o negative_n for_o we_o can_v but_o deny_v that_o image_n be_v to_o be_v adore_v nor_o can_v we_o admit_v maim_a sacrament_n nor_o grant_v prayer_n in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n and_o in_o a_o corrupt_a time_n or_o place_n it_o be_v as_o necessary_a in_o religion_n to_o deny_v falsehood_n as_o to_o assert_v and_o vindicate_v truth_n indeed_o this_o late_a can_n hardly_o be_v well_o and_o sufficient_o do_v but_o by_o the_o former_a a_o affirmative_a verity_n be_v ever_o include_v in_o the_o negative_a to_o a_o falsehood_n as_o for_o any_o error_n which_o may_v fall_v into_o this_o as_o any_o other_o reformation_n if_o any_o such_o can_v be_v find_v than_o i_o say_v and_o it_o be_v most_o true_a reformation_n especial_o in_o case_n of_o religion_n be_v so_o difficult_a a_o work_n and_o subject_a to_o so_o many_o pretension_n that_o it_o be_v almost_o impossible_a but_o the_o reformer_n shall_v step_v too_o far_o or_o fall_v too_o short_a in_o some_o small_a thing_n or_o other_o which_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o far_o great_a benefit_n come_v by_o the_o reformation_n itself_o may_v well_o be_v pass_v over_o and_o bear_v withal_o but_o if_o there_o have_v be_v any_o wilful_a and_o gross_a error_n not_o so_o much_o in_o opinion_n as_o in_o fact_n finem_fw-la sacrilege_n too_o often_o pretend_v to_o reform_v superstition_n that_o be_v the_o crime_n of_o the_o reformer_n not_o of_o the_o reformation_n and_o they_o be_v long_o since_o go_v to_o god_n to_o answer_v it_o to_o who_o i_o leave_v they_o num._n 6_o but_o now_o before_o i_o go_v off_o from_o this_o point_n i_o must_v put_v you_o in_o remembrance_n too_o that_o i_o speak_v at_o that_o time_n and_o so_o must_v all_o that_o will_v speak_v of_o that_o exigent_n of_o the_o general_n church_n as_o it_o be_v for_o the_o most_o part_n force_v under_o the_o government_n of_o the_o roman_a sea_n and_o this_o you_o understand_v well_o enough_o for_o in_o your_o very_a next_o word_n you_o call_v it_o the_o roman_a church_n now_o i_o make_v no_o doubt_n but_o that_o as_o the_o universal_a catholic_a church_n will_v have_v reform_v herself_o have_v she_o be_v in_o all_o part_n free_v of_o the_o roman_a yoke_n so_o while_o she_o be_v for_o the_o most_o in_o these_o western_a part_n under_o that_o yoke_n the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v if_o not_o the_o only_a yet_o the_o chief_a hindrance_n of_o reformation_n and_o then_o in_o this_o sense_n it_o be_v more_o than_o clear_a that_o if_o the_o roman_a church_n will_v neither_o reform_v nor_o suffer_v reformation_n it_o be_v lawful_a for_o any_o other_o particular_a church_n to_o reform_v itself_o so_o long_o as_o it_o do_v it_o peaceable_o and_o orderly_o and_o keep_v itself_o to_o the_o foundation_n and_o free_a from_o together_o sacrilege_n f._n i_o ask_v quo_fw-la judice_fw-la do_v this_o appear_v to_o be_v so_o which_o question_n i_o ask_v as_o not_o think_v it_o equity_n that_o protestant_n in_o their_o own_o cause_n shall_v be_v accuser_n witness_n and_o judge_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n b._n §_o 25_o num._n 1_o you_o do_v well_o to_o tell_v the_o reason_n now_o why_o you_o ask_v this_o question_n for_o you_o do_v not_o discover_v it_o at_o the_o conference_n if_o you_o have_v you_o may_v then_o have_v receive_v your_o answer_n it_o be_v most_o true_a no_o man_n in_o common_a equity_n ought_v to_o be_v suffer_v to_o be_v accuser_n witness_v and_o judge_n in_o his_o own_o cause_n but_o be_v there_o not_o as_o little_a reason_n and_o equity_n too_o that_o any_o man_n that_o be_v to_o be_v accuse_v shall_v be_v the_o accuse_v and_o yet_o witness_v and_o judge_n in_o his_o own_o cause_n if_o the_o first_o may_v hold_v no_o man_n shall_v be_v innocent_a and_o if_o the_o last_o none_o will_v be_v nocent_a and_o what_o do_v we_o here_o with_o in_o their_o own_o cause_n against_o the_o roman_a church_n why_o be_v it_o not_o your_o own_o too_o against_o the_o protestant_a church_n and_o if_o it_o be_v a_o cause_n common_a to_o both_o as_o certain_a it_o be_v than_o neither_o part_n alone_o may_v be_v judge_n if_o neither_o alone_a may_v judge_v then_o either_o they_o must_v be_v judge_v by_o a_o 9_o three_o which_o stand_v indifferent_a to_o both_o and_o
of_o all_o doubt_n for_o if_o there_o be_v reason_n of_o doubt_v the_o one_o there_o be_v as_o much_o reason_n of_o doubt_v the_o other_o since_o they_o stand_v both_o on_o the_o same_o foot_n the_o validity_n of_o christ_n prayer_n for_o saint_n peter_n num._n 17_o yea_o but_o christ_n charge_v s._n peter_n to_o govern_v and_o feed_v his_o whole_a stock_n s._n john_n 21._o nay_o soft_a it_o be_v but_o his_o sheep_n and_o his_o 151_o lamb_n and_o that_o every_o apostle_n and_o every_o apostle_n successor_n have_v charge_n to_o do_v all_o s._n matth._n 28._o but_o over_o the_o whole_a flock_n i_o find_v no_o one_o apostle_n or_o successor_n set_v and_o it_o be_v a_o poor_a shift_n to_o say_v as_o a._n c._n do_v that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n be_v 58._o set_v over_o the_o whole_a flock_n because_o both_o over_o lamb_n and_o sheep_n for_o in_o every_o flock_n that_o be_v not_o of_o barren_a wether_n there_o be_v lamb_n and_o sheep_n that_o be_v be_v weak_a and_o strong_a christian_n not_o people_n and_o pastor_n subject_n and_o governor_n as_o a._n c._n expound_v it_o to_o bring_v the_o neck_n of_o prince_n under_o roman_a pride_n and_o if_o king_n be_v mean_v yet_o then_o the_o command_n be_v pasce_fw-la feed_v they_o but_o deponere_fw-la or_o occidere_fw-la to_o depose_v or_o kill_v they_o be_v not_o pascere_fw-la in_o any_o sense_n lanii_fw-la id_fw-la est_fw-la non_fw-la pastoris_fw-la that_o be_v the_o butcher_n not_o the_o shepherd_n part_n if_o a_o a_o sheep_n go_v astray_o never_o so_o far_o it_o be_v not_o the_o shepherd_n part_n to_o kill_v he_o at_o least_o if_o he_o do_v non_fw-la pascit_fw-la dum_fw-la oâ—cidit_fw-la he_o do_v not_o certain_o feed_v while_o he_o kill_v num._n 18_o and_o for_o the_o close_a that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n shall_v never_o refuse_v 58._o to_o feed_v and_o govern_v the_o whole_a stock_n in_o such_o sort_n as_o that_o neither_o particular_a man_n nor_o church_n shall_v have_v just_a cause_n under_o pretence_n of_o reformation_n in_o manner_n or_o faith_n to_o make_v a_o separation_n from_o the_o whole_a church_n by_o a._n c_n favour_n this_o be_v mere_a beg_n of_o the_o question_n he_o say_v the_o pope_n shall_v ever_o govern_v the_o whole_a whole_a church_n so_o as_o that_o there_o shall_v be_v no_o just_a cause_n give_v of_o a_o separation_n and_o that_o be_v the_o very_a thing_n which_o the_o protestant_n charge_v upon_o he_o namely_o that_o he_o have_v govern_v if_o not_o the_o whole_a yet_o so_o much_o of_o the_o church_n as_o he_o have_v be_v able_a to_o bring_v under_o his_o power_n so_o as_o that_o he_o have_v give_v too_o just_a cause_n of_o the_o present_a continue_a separation_n and_o as_o the_o corruption_n in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v the_o cause_n of_o the_o first_o separation_n so_o be_v they_o at_o this_o present_a day_n the_o cause_n why_o the_o separation_n continue_v and_o far_o i_o for_o my_o part_n be_o clear_a of_o opinion_n that_o the_o error_n in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n which_o be_v charge_v upon_o the_o whole_a church_n at_o least_o so_o much_o of_o the_o whole_a as_o in_o these_o part_n of_o europe_n have_v be_v keep_v under_o the_o roman_a jurisdiction_n have_v have_v their_o original_a and_o continuance_n from_o this_o that_o so_o much_o of_o the_o universal_a church_n which_o indeed_o they_o account_v all_o have_v forget_v she_o own_o liberty_n and_o submit_v to_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o bishop_n and_o so_o be_v in_o a_o manner_n force_v to_o embrace_v all_o the_o corruption_n which_o the_o particular_a church_n of_o rome_n have_v contract_v upon_o itself_o and_o be_v now_o not_o able_a to_o free_v herself_o from_o the_o roman_a jurisdiction_n be_v make_v to_o continue_v also_o in_o all_o her_o corruption_n and_o for_o the_o protestant_n they_o have_v make_v no_o separation_n from_o the_o general_n church_n proper_o so_o call_v for_o therein_o a._n c._n say_v well_o 58._o the_o pope_n administration_n can_v give_v no_o cause_n to_o separate_v from_o that_o but_o their_o separation_n be_v only_o from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o such_o other_o church_n as_o by_o adhere_v to_o she_o have_v hazard_v themselves_o and_o do_v now_o miscall_v themselves_o the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n nay_o even_o here_o the_o protestant_n have_v not_o leave_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o her_o essence_n but_o in_o her_o error_n not_o in_o the_o thing_n which_o constitute_v a_o church_n but_o only_o in_o such_o abuse_n and_o corruption_n as_o work_v towards_o the_o dissolution_n of_o a_o church_n f._n i_o also_o ask_v who_o ought_v to_o judge_v in_o this_o case_n the_o b._n say_v a_o general_n council_n b._n §_o 26_o num._n 1_o and_o sure_o what_o great_a or_o sure_a judgement_n you_o can_v have_v where_o sense_n of_o scripture_n be_v doubt_v than_o a_o general_n council_n i_o do_v not_o see_v nor_o do_v you_o doubt_v and_o a._n c._n grant_v 59_o it_o to_o be_v a_o most_o competent_a judge_n of_o all_o controversy_n of_o faith_n so_o that_o all_o pastor_n be_v gather_v together_o and_o in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n and_o pray_v unanimous_o for_o the_o promise_a assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o make_v great_a and_o diligent_a search_n and_o examination_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o other_o ground_n of_o faith_n and_o then_o decree_n what_o be_v to_o be_v hold_v for_o divine_a truth_n for_o then_o say_v he_o it_o be_v firm_a and_o infallible_a or_o else_o there_o be_v nothing_o firm_a upon_o earth_n as_o fair_a as_o this_o passage_n seem_v and_o as_o free_o as_o i_o have_v grant_v that_o a_o general_n council_n be_v the_o best_a judge_n on_o earth_n where_o the_o sense_n of_o scripture_n be_v doubt_v yet_o even_o in_o this_o passage_n there_o be_v some_o thing_n considerable_a as_o first_o when_o shall_v the_o church_n hope_v for_o such_o a_o general_n council_n in_o which_o all_o pastor_n shall_v be_v gather_v together_o there_o be_v never_o any_o such_o general_n council_n yet_o nor_o do_v i_o believe_v such_o can_v be_v have_v so_o that_o be_v suppose_v in_o vain_a and_o you_o may_v have_v learn_v this_o of_o 1._o bellarmine_n if_o you_o will_v not_o believe_v i_o next_o say_v he_o if_o all_o these_o pastor_n pray_v unanimous_o for_o the_o promise_a assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n why_o but_o if_o all_o pastor_n can_v meet_v together_o all_o can_v pray_v together_o nor_o all_o search_n the_o scripture_n together_o nor_o all_o upon_o that_o search_n decree_v together_o so_o that_o be_v suppose_v in_o vain_a too_o yea_o but_o three_o if_o all_o that_o meet_v do_v pray_v unanimous_o what_o then_o all_o that_o meet_v be_v not_o simple_o all_o nor_o do_v the_o holy_a ghost_n come_v and_o give_v his_o assistance_n upon_o every_o prayer_n that_o be_v make_v unanimous_o though_o by_o very_o many_o prelate_n or_o other_o faithful_a people_n meet_v together_o unless_o all_o other_o requisite_n as_o well_o as_o 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first_o beside_o the_o silence_n of_o impartial_a antiquity_n divers_a 10._o of_o your_o own_o confess_v it_o yea_o and_o prove_v it_o too_o by_o sundry_a instance_n num._n 10_o second_o there_o be_v a_o great_a question_n among_o the_o learned_a both_o schoolman_n and_o controverser_n whether_o the_o pope_n come_v to_o be_v a_o heretic_n may_v be_v depose_v and_o it_o be_v learned_o dispute_v by_o 30._o bellarmine_n the_o opinion_n be_v different_a for_o the_o papa_n canon-law_n say_v express_o he_o may_v be_v judge_v and_o depose_v by_o the_o church_n in_o case_n of_o heresy_n 30._o joh._n de_fw-fr turrecremata_fw-la be_v of_o opinion_n that_o the_o pope_n be_v to_o be_v depose_v by_o the_o church_n so_o soon_o as_o he_o become_v a_o heretic_n though_o as_o yet_o not_o a_o manifest_a one_o because_o he_o be_v already_o deprive_v by_o divine_a right_n and_o recite_v another_o opinion_n that_o the_o pope_n can_v be_v depose_v though_o he_o fall_v into_o secret_a or_o manifest_a 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but_o he_o must_v be_v in_o holy_a order_n first_o and_o if_o any_o man_n be_v choose_v that_o be_v not_o so_o the_o election_n be_v void_a ipso_fw-la facto_fw-la propter_fw-la errorem_fw-la personae_fw-la for_o the_o error_n of_o the_o person_n nullus_fw-la this_o also_o be_v grant_v three_o he_o that_o be_v to_o be_v make_v pope_n can_v never_o be_v in_o holy_a order_n but_o by_o receive_v they_o from_o one_o that_o have_v power_n to_o ordain_v this_o be_v notorious_o know_v so_o be_v it_o also_o that_o with_o you_o order_n be_v a_o sacrament_n proper_o so_o call_v and_o if_o so_o than_o the_o pope_n when_o he_o do_v receive_v the_o order_n of_o deacon_n or_o priesthood_n at_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o bishop_n do_v also_o receive_v a_o sacrament_n upon_o these_o ground_n i_o raise_v my_o
judgement_n infallible_a yea_o and_o he_o set_v this_o mark_n upon_o his_o dissent_n beside_o 189._o that_o he_o reckon_v up_o the_o book_n of_o the_o canon_n just_a so_o and_o no_o otherwise_o then_o as_o he_o receive_v they_o out_o of_o the_o monument_n of_o the_o forefather_n and_o out_o of_o which_o the_o assertion_n of_o our_o faith_n be_v to_o be_v take_v last_o of_o all_o have_v this_o place_n of_o ruffinus_n any_o strength_n for_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n yet_o there_o be_v very_o little_a reason_n that_o the_o pope_n and_o his_o clergy_n shall_v take_v any_o benefit_n by_o it_o for_o k._n s._n hierome_n tell_v we_o that_o when_o ruffinus_n be_v angry_a with_o he_o for_o a_o epistle_n which_o he_o write_v not_o he_o plain_o send_v he_o to_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o bid_v he_o exposiulate_v with_o he_o for_o the_o contumely_n put_v upon_o he_o in_o that_o he_o receive_v not_o his_o exposition_n of_o the_o faith_n which_o say_v he_o all_o italy_n approve_v and_o in_o that_o he_o brand_v he_o also_o dum_fw-la nesciret_fw-la behind_o his_o back_n with_o heresy_n now_o if_o the_o pope_n which_o then_o be_v reject_v this_o exposition_n of_o the_o creed_n make_v by_o ruffinus_n and_o brand_v he_o beside_o with_o heresy_n his_o sentence_n against_o ruffinus_n be_v just_a or_o unjust_a if_o unjust_a than_o the_o pope_n err_v about_o a_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o so_o neither_o he_o nor_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n infallible_a if_o just_a than_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n labour_v to_o defend_v herself_o by_o his_o pen_n which_o be_v judge_v heretical_a by_o herself_o so_o whether_o it_o be_v just_a or_o unjust_a the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v drive_v to_o a_o hard_a strait_n when_o she_o must_v beg_v help_n of_o he_o who_o she_o brand_v with_o heresy_n and_o out_o of_o that_o tract_n which_o she_o herself_o reject_v and_o so_o uphold_v her_o infall_n ibility_n by_o the_o judgement_n of_o a_o man_n who_o in_o her_o judgement_n have_v err_v so_o foul_o nor_o may_v she_o by_o any_o testibus_fw-la law_n take_v benefit_n of_o a_o testimony_n which_o herself_o have_v defame_v and_o protest_v against_o num._n 13_o with_o these_o bellarmine_n be_v please_v to_o name_n sâ—x_n or_o ergo_fw-la seven_o pope_n which_o he_o say_v be_v all_o of_o this_o opinion_n but_o of_o pope_n opinion_n he_o say_v that_o etiam_fw-la these_o testimony_n will_v be_v contemn_v by_o the_o heretic_n good_a word_n i_o pray_v i_o know_v who_o the_o cardinal_n mean_v by_o heretic_n very_o well_o but_o the_o best_a be_v his_o call_n can_v make_v they_o so_o nor_o shall_v i_o easy_o contemn_v seven_o ancient_a bishop_n of_o rome_n concur_v in_o opinion_n if_o apparent_a verity_n in_o the_o thing_n itself_o do_v not_o force_v i_o to_o dissent_v and_o in_o that_o case_n i_o shall_v do_v it_o without_o contempt_n too_o this_o only_a i_o will_v say_v law_n that_o seven_o pope_n concur_v in_o opinion_n shall_v have_v less_o weight_n with_o i_o in_o their_o own_o cause_n than_o any_o other_o seven_o of_o the_o more_o ancient_a father_n indeed_o can_v i_o swallow_v initio_fw-la bellarmine_n opinion_n that_o the_o pope_n judgement_n be_v infallible_a i_o will_v then_o submit_v without_o any_o more_o aâ—o_o but_o that_o will_v never_o down_o with_o i_o unless_o i_o live_v till_o i_o dote_v which_o i_o hope_v in_o god_n i_o shall_v not_o num._n 14_o other_o proof_n than_o these_o bellarmine_n bring_v not_o to_o prove_v that_o the_o particular_a church_n of_o rome_n can_v err_v in_o or_o from_o the_o faith_n and_o of_o what_o force_n these_o be_v to_o sway_v any_o judgement_n i_o submit_v to_o all_o indifferent_a reader_n and_o have_v thus_o examine_v bellarmine_n proof_n that_o the_o particular_a church_n of_o rome_n can_v err_v in_o faith_n i_o now_o return_v to_o a._n c._n and_o the_o jesuit_n and_o 42._o tell_v they_o that_o no_o jesuit_n or_o any_o other_o be_v ever_o able_a to_o prove_v any_o particular_a church_n infallible_a num._n 15_o but_o for_o the_o particular_a church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o pope_n with_o it_o err_v it_o have_v and_o therefore_o may_v err_v err_v i_o say_v it_o have_v in_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n and_o in_o alter_v christ_n institution_n in_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n by_o take_v away_o the_o cup_n from_o the_o people_n and_o divers_a other_o particular_n as_o shall_v appear_v at_o 12._o after_o and_o as_o for_o the_o ground_n which_o be_v presume_v to_o secure_v this_o church_n from_o error_n it_o be_v very_o remarkable_a how_o the_o 1._o learned_a cardinal_n speak_v in_o this_o case_n for_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o this_o proposition_n so_o long_o as_o s._n peter_n chair_n be_v at_o rome_n that_o particular_a church_n can_v err_v in_o the_o faith_n be_v verissima_fw-la most_o true_a and_o yet_o in_o the_o very_a next_o word_n it_o be_v fortasse_fw-la tam_fw-la vera_fw-la peradventure_o as_o true_a as_o the_o former_a that_o be_v that_o the_o pope_n when_o he_o teach_v the_o whole_a church_n in_o those_o thing_n which_o belong_v to_o the_o faith_n can_v err_v in_o any_o case_n what_o be_v that_o proposition_n most_o true_a and_o yet_o be_v it_o but_o at_o a_o peradventure_o it_o be_v as_o true_a as_o this_o be_v it_o possible_a any_o thing_n shall_v be_v absolute_o most_o true_a and_o yet_o under_o a_o peradventure_o that_o it_o be_v but_o as_o true_a as_o another_o truth_n but_o here_o without_o all_o peradventure_o neither_o proposition_n be_v true_a and_o then_o indeed_o bellarmine_n may_v say_v without_o a_o fortasse_fw-la that_o this_o proposition_n the_o particular_a church_n of_o rome_n can_v err_v so_o long_o as_o the_o sea_n apostolic_a be_v there_o be_v as_o true_a as_o this_o the_o pope_n can_v err_v while_o he_o teach_v the_o whole_a church_n in_o those_o thing_n which_o belong_v to_o the_o faith_n for_o neither_o of_o they_o be_v true_a but_o he_o can_v say_v that_o either_o of_o they_o be_v verissima_fw-la most_o true_a when_o 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understanding_n he_o must_v think_v the_o quite_o contrary_a to_o this_o which_o bellarmine_n think_v pious_a and_o so_o probable_a what_o then_o why_o then_o secundum_fw-la bellarmine_n himself_o tell_v you_o that_o the_o quite_o contrary_a proposition_n to_o this_o namely_o that_o s._n peter_n chair_n may_v be_v sever_v from_o rome_n and_o that_o then_o that_o particular_a church_n may_v err_v be_v neither_o heretical_a nor_o manifest_o erroneous_a so_o then_o by_o bellarmine_n own_o confession_n i_o be_o no_o heretic_n nor_o in_o any_o manifest_a error_n if_o i_o say_v as_o indeed_o i_o do_v and_o think_v it_o too_o that_o it_o be_v possible_a for_o s._n peter_n chair_n to_o be_v carry_v from_o rome_n and_o that_o then_o at_o least_o by_o his_o own_o argument_n that_o church_n may_v err_v num._n 17_o now_o then_o upon_o the_o whole_a matter_n and_o to_o return_v to_o a._n c._n 42._o if_o that_o lady_n desire_v to_o rely_v upon_o a_o particular_a infallible_a church_n it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v find_v on_o earth_n rome_n have_v not_o that_o gift_n nor_o her_o bishop_n neither_o and_o bellarmine_n who_o i_o think_v be_v as_o able_a as_o any_o champion_n that_o church_n have_v dare_v not_o say_v it_o be_v either_o heresy_n or_o a_o manifest_a error_n to_o say_v that_o the_o apostolic_a sea_n may_v be_v remove_v thence_o and_o that_o church_n not_o only_o err_v in_o faith_n but_o also_o fall_v quite_o away_o from_o it_o now_o i_o for_o my_o part_n have_v not_o ignorance_n enough_o in_o i_o to_o believe_v that_o that_o church_n which_o may_v apostatise_v at_o some_o one_o time_n may_v not_o err_v at_o another_o especial_o since_o both_o her_o err_a and_o fail_v may_v arise_v from_o other_o cause_n beside_o that_o which_o be_v mention_v by_o the_o cardinal_n and_o if_o it_o may_v err_v it_o
be_v not_o infallible_a f._n the_o question_n be_v which_o be_v that_o church_n a_o friend_n of_o the_o lady_n will_v needs_o defend_v that_o not_o only_o the_o roman_n but_o also_o the_o greek_a church_n be_v right_a b._n §_o 4_o when_o that_o honourable_a personage_n answer_v i_o be_v not_o by_o to_o hear_v but_o i_o presume_v he_o be_v so_o far_o from_o grant_v that_o only_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v right_a as_o that_o he_o do_v not_o grant_v it_o right_n and_o that_o he_o take_v on_o he_o no_o other_o defence_n of_o the_o poor_a greek_a church_n than_o be_v according_a to_o truth_n f._n i_o tell_v he_o that_o the_o greek_a church_n have_v plain_o change_v and_o teach_v false_a in_o a_o point_n of_o doctrine_n concern_v the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o that_o i_o have_v hear_v say_v that_o even_o his_o majesty_n shall_v say_v that_o the_o greek_a church_n have_v err_v against_o the_o holy_a ghost_n have_v lose_v the_o holy_a ghost_n b._n §_o 5_o you_o be_v very_o bold_a with_o his_o 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perhaps_o in_o some_o other_o too_o f._n the_o lady_n friend_n not_o know_v what_o to_o answer_v call_v in_o the_o bishop_n who_o sit_v down_o first_o excuse_v himself_o as_o one_o unprovided_a and_o not_o much_o study_v in_o controversy_n and_o desire_v that_o in_o case_n he_o shall_v fail_v yet_o the_o protestant_a cause_n may_v not_o be_v think_v ill_o of_o b._n §_o 6_o this_o be_v most_o true_a for_o i_o do_v indeed_o excuse_v myself_o and_o i_o have_v great_a reason_n so_o to_o do_v and_o my_o reason_n be_v ground_v upon_o modesty_n for_o the_o most_o part_n there_o i_o leave_v it_o yet_o this_o it_o may_v be_v fit_a other_o shall_v know_v that_o i_o have_v no_o information_n where_o the_o other_o conference_n break_v off_o no_o instruction_n at_o all_o what_o shall_v be_v the_o ground_n of_o this_o three_o conference_n nor_o the_o full_a time_n of_o four_o and_o twenty_o hour_n to_o bethink_v myself_o and_o this_o i_o take_v upon_o my_o credit_n be_v most_o true_a whereas_o you_o make_v the_o sift_v of_o these_o and_o the_o like_a question_n to_o the_o very_a bran_n your_o daily_a work_n and_o come_v thorough_o furnish_v to_o the_o business_n and_o may_v so_o lead_v on_o the_o controversy_n to_o what_o yourself_o please_v and_o i_o be_v to_o follow_v as_o i_o can_v 2._o s._n augustine_n say_v once_o scio_fw-la i_o invalidum_fw-la esse_fw-la i_o know_v i_o be_o weak_a and_o yet_o he_o make_v good_a his_o cause_n and_o so_o perhaps_o may_v i_o against_o you_o and_o in_o that_o i_o prefer_v the_o cause_n before_o my_o particular_a credit_n that_o which_o i_o do_v be_v with_o modesty_n and_o according_a to_o reason_n for_o there_o be_v no_o reason_n the_o weight_n of_o this_o whole_a cause_n shall_v rest_v upon_o any_o one_o particular_a man_n and_o great_a reason_n that_o the_o personal_a defect_n of_o any_o man_n shall_v press_v himself_o but_o not_o the_o cause_n neither_o do_v i_o enter_v upon_o this_o service_n out_o of_o any_o forwardness_n of_o my_o own_o but_o command_v to_o it_o by_o supreme_a authority_n f._n it_o have_v a_o hundred_o better_a scholar_n to_o maintain_v it_o then_o he_o to_o which_o i_o say_v there_o be_v a_o thousand_o better_a scholar_n than_o i_o to_o maintain_v the_o catholic_a cause_n b._n §_o 7_o in_o this_o i_o have_v never_o so_o poor_a a_o conceit_n of_o the_o protestant_n cause_n as_o to_o think_v that_o they_o have_v but_o a_o hundred_o better_a than_o myself_o to_o maintain_v it_o that_o which_o have_v a_o hundred_o may_v have_v as_o many_o more_o as_o it_o please_v god_n to_o give_v and_o more_o than_o you_o and_o i_o shall_v ever_o be_v glad_a that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n which_o at_o this_o time_n if_o my_o memory_n reflect_v not_o amiss_o i_o name_v may_v have_v far_o more_o able_a defendant_n than_o myself_o i_o shall_v never_o envy_v they_o but_o rejoice_v for_o she_o and_o i_o make_v no_o question_n but_o that_o if_o i_o have_v name_v a_o thousand_o you_o will_v have_v multiply_v you_o into_o ten_o thousand_o for_o the_o catholic_a cause_n as_o you_o call_v it_o and_o this_o confidence_n of_o you_o have_v ever_o be_v full_a of_o noise_n then_o proof_n but_o you_o proceed_v f._n then_o the_o question_n about_o the_o greek_a church_n be_v propose_v i_o say_v as_o before_o that_o it_o have_v err_v b._n §_o 8_o then_o i_o think_v the_o question_n about_o the_o greek_a church_n be_v propose_v but_o after_o you_o have_v with_o confidence_n enough_o not_o spare_v to_o say_v that_o what_o i_o will_v not_o acknowledge_v in_o this_o cause_n you_o will_v wring_v and_o extort_v from_o i_o then_o indeed_o you_o say_v as_o before_o that_o it_o have_v err_v and_o this_o no_o man_n deny_v but_o every_o error_n deny_v not_o christ_n the_o foundation_n or_o make_v christ_n deny_v it_o or_o thrust_v it_o from_o the_o foundation_n f._n the_o bishop_n say_v that_o the_o error_n be_v not_o in_o point_n fundamental_a b._n §_o 9_o num._n 1_o i_o be_v not_o so_o peremptory_a my_o speech_n be_v that_o divers_a learned_a man_n and_o some_o of_o your_o own_o be_v of_o opinion_n that_o as_o the_o greek_n express_v themselves_o it_o be_v a_o question_n not_o simple_o fundamental_a i_o know_v and_o acknowledge_v that_o error_n of_o deny_v the_o procession_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n from_o the_o son_n to_o be_v a_o grievous_a error_n in_o divinity_n and_o sure_o it_o will_v have_v grate_v the_o foundation_n if_o they_o have_v so_o deny_v the_o procession_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n from_o the_o son_n as_o that_o they_o have_v make_v a_o inequality_n between_o the_o person_n but_o since_o their_o form_n of_o speech_n be_v ibid._n that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n proceed_v from_o the_o father_n by_o the_o son_n and_o be_v the_o spirit_n of_o the_o son_n without_o make_v any_o difference_n in_o the_o consubstantiality_n of_o the_o person_n i_o dare_v not_o deny_v they_o to_o be_v a_o true_a church_n for_o this_o though_o i_o confess_v they_o a_o erroneous_a church_n in_o this_o particular_a num._n 2_o now_o that_o divers_a learned_a man_n be_v of_o opinion_n that_o à _fw-la filio_fw-la and_o per_fw-la filium_fw-la in_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o greek_a church_n be_v but_o a_o question_n in_o modo_fw-la loquendi_fw-la in_o manner_n of_o speech_n 2._o and_o therefore_o not_o fundamental_a be_v evident_a patriarchae_fw-la the_o master_n and_o his_o scholar_n agree_v upon_o it_o the_o greek_n say_v he_o confess_v the_o holy_a ghost_n to_o be_v the_o spirit_n of_o the_o son_n with_o the_o apostle_n galat._n 4._o and_o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n s._n john_n 16._o and_o since_o non_fw-la est_fw-la aliud_fw-la it_o be_v not_o another_o thing_n to_o say_v the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v the_o spirit_n of_o the_o father_n and_o
but_o as_o it_o be_v appliable_a to_o the_o whole_a church_n militant_a in_o all_o succeed_a time_n so_o the_o promise_n be_v make_v with_o a_o limitation_n 15._o namely_o that_o the_o bless_a spirit_n shall_v abide_v with_o the_o church_n for_o ever_o and_o lead_v it_o into_o all_o truth_n but_o not_o simple_o into_o all_o curious_a truth_n no_o not_o in_o or_o about_o the_o faith_n but_o into_o all_o truth_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o against_o this_o truth_n the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n can_v err_v keep_v herself_o to_o the_o direction_n of_o the_o scripture_n as_o christ_n have_v appoint_v she_o for_o in_o this_o very_a place_n where_o the_o promise_n be_v make_v that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n shall_v teach_v you_o all_o thing_n it_o be_v add_v that_o he_o shall_v bring_v all_o thing_n to_o their_o remembrance_n what_o simple_o all_o thing_n no_o but_o all_o thing_n which_o christ_n have_v tell_v they_o s._n john_n 14._o so_o there_o be_v a_o limitation_n 26._o put_v upon_o the_o word_n by_o christ_n himself_o and_o if_o the_o church_n will_v not_o err_v it_o must_v not_o ravel_v curious_o into_o unnecessary_a truth_n which_o be_v out_o of_o the_o promise_n nor_o follow_v any_o other_o guide_n than_o the_o doctrine_n which_o christ_n have_v lest_o behind_o he_o to_o govern_v it_o for_o if_o it_o will_v come_v to_o the_o end_n it_o must_v keep_v in_o the_o way_n and_o christ_n who_o promise_v the_o spirit_n shall_v lead_v have_v no_o where_o promise_v that_o it_o shall_v follow_v its_o leader_n into_o all_o truth_n and_o at_o least_o not_o infallible_o unless_o you_o will_v limit_v as_o before_o so_o no_o one_o of_o these_o place_n can_v make_v good_a a._n c.'s_n assertion_n that_o the_o whole_a church_n can_v err_v general_o in_o any_o 〈◊〉_d point_v of_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o absolute_a foundation_n 5._o she_o can_v in_o deduction_n and_o superstructure_n she_o may_v num._n 6_o now_o to_o all_o that_o i_o have_v say_v concern_v the_o right_n which_o particular_a church_n have_v to_o reform_v themselves_o when_o the_o general_a church_n can_v for_o impediment_n or_o will_v not_o for_o negligence_n which_o i_o have_v prove_v at_o large_a etc._n before_o all_o the_o answer_n that_o a._n c._n give_v be_v first_o quo_fw-la judice_fw-la who_o shall_v be_v judge_n and_o that_o shall_v be_v the_o scripture_n and_o the_o 4._o primitive_a church_n and_o by_o the_o â—_o rule_n of_o the_o one_o and_o to_o the_o integrity_n of_o the_o other_o both_o in_o faith_n and_o manner_n any_o particular_a church_n may_v safe_o reform_v itself_o num._n 7_o second_o that_o no_o reformation_n in_o faith_n can_v be_v needful_a in_o the_o general_n church_n but_o only_o in_o particular_a church_n in_o which_o case_n also_o he_o say_v particular_a church_n may_v not_o take_v upon_o 58._o they_o to_o judge_n and_o condemn_v other_o of_o error_n in_o faith_n well_o how_o far_o forth_o reformation_n even_o of_o faith_n may_v be_v necessary_a in_o the_o general_n church_n i_o have_v express_v 4._o already_o and_o for_o particular_a church_n i_o do_v not_o say_v that_o they_o must_v take_v upon_o they_o to_o judge_n or_o condemn_v other_o of_o error_n in_o faith_n that_o which_o i_o say_v be_v they_o may_v reform_v themselves_o now_o i_o hope_v to_o reform_v themselves_o and_o to_o condemn_v other_o be_v two_o different_a word_n unless_o it_o fall_v out_o so_o that_o by_o reform_v themselves_o they_o do_v by_o consequence_n condemn_v any_o other_o that_o be_v guilty_a in_o that_o point_n in_o which_o they_o reform_v themselves_o and_o so_o far_o to_o judge_n and_o condemn_v other_o be_v not_o only_o lawful_a but_o necessary_a a_o man_n that_o live_v religious_o do_v not_o by_o and_o by_o sit_v in_o judgement_n and_o condemn_v with_o his_o mouth_n all_o profane_a liver_n but_o yet_o while_o he_o be_v silent_a his_o very_a life_n condemn_v they_o and_o i_o hope_v in_o this_o way_n of_o judicature_n a._n c._n dare_v not_o say_v it_o be_v unlawful_a for_o a_o particular_a church_n or_o man_n to_o condemn_v another_o and_o 〈◊〉_d whatsoever_o a._n c._n can_v say_v to_o the_o contrary_a there_o be_v divers_a case_n where_o heresy_n be_v know_v and_o notorious_a in_o which_o it_o will_v be_v hard_a to_o say_v as_o he_o do_v that_o one_o particular_a church_n must_v 58._o not_o judge_n or_o condemn_v another_o so_o far_o forth_o at_o 〈◊〉_d as_o to_o 〈◊〉_d and_o protest_v against_o the_o heresy_n of_o it_o num._n 8_o three_o if_o one_o particular_a church_n may_v not_o judge_n or_o condemn_v another_o what_o must_v then_o be_v do_v where_o particular_n need_v reformation_n what_o why_o then_o a._n c._n tell_v we_o that_o particular_a 58._o church_n must_v in_o that_o case_n as_o irenaeus_n intimate_v have_v recourse_n to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n which_o have_v more_o powerful_a sub_fw-la principality_n the_o principality_n of_o a_o apostolic_a chair_n or_o if_o you_o will_v the_o apostolic_a chair_n in_o relation_n to_o the_o west_n and_o south_n part_n of_o the_o church_n all_o the_o other_o four_o apostolic_a chair_n be_v in_o the_o east_n now_o this_o no_o man_n deny_v that_o understand_v the_o state_n and_o story_n of_o the_o church_n and_o 16._o calvin_n confess_v it_o express_o nor_o be_v the_o word_n principatus_fw-la so_o great_a nor_o be_v the_o bishop_n of_o those_o time_n so_o little_a as_o that_o principes_fw-la and_o principatus_fw-la be_v not_o common_o give_v they_o both_o by_o the_o general_n greek_a and_o the_o latin_a father_n of_o this_o great_a and_o learn_a age_n of_o the_o church_n make_v up_o of_o the_o four_o and_o five_o hundred_o year_n always_o understand_v principatus_fw-la of_o their_o spiritual_a power_n and_o within_o the_o limit_n of_o their_o several_a jurisdiction_n which_o perhaps_o now_o and_o then_o they_o do_v occasional_o exceed_v and_o there_o be_v not_o one_o word_n in_o s._n augustine_n that_o this_o principality_n of_o the_o apostolic_a chair_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v then_o or_o aught_o to_o be_v now_o exercise_v over_o the_o whole_a church_n of_o christ_n as_o bellarmine_n insinuate_v there_o and_o as_o a._n c._n will_v have_v it_o here_o and_o to_o prove_v that_o s._n augustine_n do_v not_o intend_v by_o principatus_fw-la here_o to_o give_v the_o roman_a bishop_n any_o power_n out_o of_o his_o own_o limit_n which_o god_n know_v be_v far_o short_a of_o the_o whole_a church_n i_o shall_v make_v it_o most_o manifest_a out_o of_o the_o very_a same_o epistle_n for_o afterward_o say_v s._n augustine_n when_o the_o pertinacie_n of_o the_o donatist_n can_v not_o be_v restrain_v by_o the_o african_a bishop_n only_o 16â—_n they_o give_v they_o leave_v to_o be_v beard_n by_o foreign_a bishop_n and_o after_o that_o he_o have_v these_o word_n ibid._n and_o yet_o peradventure_o melciades_n the_o bishop_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n with_o his_o colleague_n the_o transmarine_a bishop_n non_fw-la debuit_fw-la ought_v not_o usurp_v to_o himself_o this_o judgement_n which_o be_v determine_v by_o seventy_o african_a bishop_n tigisitanus_n sit_v primate_n and_o what_o will_v you_o say_v if_o he_o do_v not_o usurp_v this_o power_n for_o the_o emperor_n be_v desire_v send_v bishop_n judge_n which_o shall_v sit_v with_o he_o and_o determine_v what_o be_v just_a upon_o the_o whole_a cause_n in_o which_o passage_n there_o be_v very_o many_o thing_n observable_a as_o first_o that_o the_o roman_a prelate_n come_v not_o in_o till_o there_o be_v leave_v for_o they_o to_o go_v to_o transmarine_a bishop_n second_o that_o if_o the_o pope_n have_v come_v in_o without_o this_o leave_n it_o have_v be_v a_o usurpation_n three_o that_o when_o he_o do_v thus_o come_v in_o not_o by_o his_o own_o proper_a authority_n but_o by_o leave_n there_o be_v other_o bishop_n make_v judge_n with_o he_o four_o that_o these_o other_o bishop_n be_v appoint_v and_o send_v by_o the_o emperor_n and_o his_o power_n that_o which_o the_o pope_n will_v least_o of_o all_o endure_v last_o lest_o the_o pope_n and_o his_o adherent_n shall_v say_v this_o be_v a_o usurpation_n in_o the_o emperor_n 162._o s._n aug._n tell_v we_o a_o little_a before_o in_o the_o same_o epistle_n still_o that_o this_o do_v chief_o belong_v ad_fw-la curam_fw-la ejus_fw-la to_o the_o emperor_n care_n and_o charge_n and_o that_o he_o be_v to_o give_v a_o account_n to_o god_n for_o it_o and_o melciades_n do_v sit_v and_o judge_v the_o business_n with_o all_o christian_a prudence_n and_o moderation_n so_o at_o this_o time_n the_o roman_a prelate_n be_v not_o receive_v as_o pastor_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n say_v a._n c._n what_o he_o please_v nor_o have_v he_o any_o supremacy_n over_o the_o other_o patriarch_n and_o for_o this_o be_v all_o other_o record_n of_o antiquity_n silent_a the_o civil_a law_n be_v proof_n enough_o and_o that_o be_v a_o monument_n
govern_v shall_v carry_v weight_n enough_o with_o it_o to_o depress_v imperial_a power_n low_o than_o god_n have_v make_v it_o out_o of_o doubt_n he_o can_v not_o for_o he_o 1._o well_o know_v that_o omnis_fw-la anima_fw-la every_o soul_n be_v to_o be_v subject_a to_o the_o high_a power_n rom._n 13._o and_o the_o potestatem_fw-la high_a power_n there_o mention_v be_v the_o temporal_a and_o the_o 1130._o ancient_a father_n come_v in_o with_o a_o full_a consent_n that_o omnis_fw-la anima_fw-la every_o soul_n comprehend_v there_o all_o without_o any_o exception_n all_o spiritual_a man_n even_o to_o the_o high_a bishop_n and_o in_o spiritual_a cause_n too_o so_o the_o foundation_n of_o faith_n and_o good_a manner_n be_v not_o shake_v and_o where_o they_o be_v shake_v there_o ought_v to_o be_v prayer_n and_o patience_n there_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v opposition_n by_o force_n nay_o he_o know_v well_o that_o 18._o emperor_n and_o king_n be_v custodes_fw-la utriusque_fw-la tabulae_fw-la they_o to_o who_o the_o custody_n and_o preservation_n of_o both_o table_n of_o the_o law_n for_o worship_n to_o god_n and_o duty_n to_o man_n be_v commit_v that_o a_o book_n of_o the_o law_n be_v by_o god_n own_o command_n in_o moses_n his_o time_n to_o be_v give_v the_o king_n 18._o deut._n 17._o that_o the_o king_n under_o that_o law_n but_o still_o according_a to_o it_o do_v proceed_v to_o necessary_a reformation_n in_o church-business_n and_o therein_o command_v the_o very_a priest_n themselves_o as_o appear_v in_o the_o act_n of_o 4._o hezekiah_n and_o 2._o josiah_n who_o yet_o be_v never_o censure_v to_o this_o day_n for_o usurp_a the_o high-priest_n office_n nay_o he_o know_v full_a well_o that_o the_o great_a emperor_n for_o the_o church_n honour_n theodosius_n the_o elder_a and_o justinian_n and_o charles_n the_o great_a and_o divers_a other_o do_v not_o only_o meddle_v now_o and_o then_o but_o do_v enact_v law_n to_o the_o great_a settlement_n and_o increase_n of_o religion_n in_o their_o several_a time_n but_o then_o if_o this_o can_v not_o be_v the_o reason_n why_o innocentius_n make_v this_o strange_a allusion_n what_o be_v why_o true_o i_o will_v tell_v you_o the_o pope_n be_v now_o grow_v to_o a_o great_a and_o a_o firm_a height_n enough_o gregory_n the_o seven_o have_v set_v the_o popedom_n upon_o a_o broad_a bottom_n before_o this_o innocent_n time_n so_o that_o now_o it_o be_v the_o less_o wonder_n if_o he_o make_v so_o bold_a with_o the_o emperor_n as_o to_o depress_v he_o as_o low_o as_o the_o moon_n upon_o no_o better_a ground_n than_o a_o groundless_a resemblance_n but_o beside_o this_o prime_a reason_n there_o be_v divers_a other_o which_o may_v easy_o be_v draw_v out_o of_o the_o same_o resemblance_n for_o since_o innocentius_n his_o main_a aim_n be_v to_o publish_v the_o pope_n greatness_n over_o king_n and_o emperor_n why_o do_v he_o not_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o pope_n be_v as_o the_o sun_n and_o the_o emperor_n as_o the_o 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any_o christian_a be_v offend_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v a_o good_a end_n of_o controversy_n can_v you_o think_v of_o a_o better_a end_n than_o by_o a_o general_n council_n and_o if_o you_o have_v a_o most_o gracious_a king_n incline_v unto_o it_o as_o you_o say_v it_o be_v offer_v how_o can_v you_o acquit_v yourselves_o if_o you_o do_v not_o consent_v now_o here_o a._n c._n marvel_n what_o 62â—_n kind_n of_o general_n council_n i_o will_v have_v and_o what_o rule_v i_o will_v have_v observe_v in_o it_o which_o be_v moral_o like_a to_o be_v observe_v and_o make_v a_o end_n of_o controversy_n better_o than_o their_o catholic_a general_n counsel_n true_o i_o be_o not_o willing_a to_o leave_v a._n c._n unsatisfy_a in_o any_o thing_n nor_o have_v i_o any_o meaning_n to_o trouble_v the_o church_n with_o any_o new_a devising_n of_o my_o any_o general_a council_n shall_v satisfy_v i_o and_o i_o presume_v all_o good_a christian_n that_o be_v lawful_o call_v continue_a and_o end_v 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and_o yet_o i_o hope_v to_o be_v find_v no_o infringer_n of_o any_o power_n give_v by_o christ_n to_o his_o church_n but_o it_o seem_v by_o that_o which_o follow_v you_o do_v by_o this_o question_n can_n a_o general_n council_n err_v but_o seek_v to_o win_v ground_n for_o your_o other_o which_o follow_v f._n if_o a_o general_n council_n may_v err_v what_o near_o be_v we_o then_o say_v i_o to_o unity_n after_o a_o council_n have_v determine_v yes_o say_v he_o although_o it_o may_v err_v yet_o we_o shall_v be_v bind_v to_o hold_v with_o it_o till_o another_o come_v to_o reverse_v it_o b._n §_o 32_o num._n 1_o whether_o a_o general_a council_n may_v err_v or_o not_o be_v a_o question_n of_o great_a consequence_n in_o the_o church_n of_o christ._n to_o say_v it_o can_v err_v leave_v the_o church_n not_o only_o without_o remedy_n against_o a_o error_n once_o determine_v but_o also_o without_o sense_n that_o it_o may_v need_v a_o remedy_n and_o so_o without_o care_n to_o seek_v it_o which_o be_v the_o misery_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n at_o this_o day_n to_o say_v it_o can_v err_v seem_v to_o expose_v the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n to_o a_o uncertainty_n and_o waver_v in_o the_o faith_n to_o make_v unquiet_a spirit_n not_o only_o to_o disrespect_n former_a counsel_n of_o the_o church_n but_o also_o to_o slight_v and_o contemn_v whatsoever_o it_o may_v now_o determine_v into_o which_o error_n some_o opposer_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v fall_v and_o upon_o this_o be_v ground_v your_o question_n wherein_o be_v we_o near_o to_o unity_n if_o a_o council_n may_v err_v but_o in_o relate_v my_o answer_n to_o this_o you_o be_v not_o so_o candid_a for_o my_o word_n do_v not_o sound_a as_o you_o seem_v to_o do_v that_o we_o shall_v hold_v with_o the_o council_n err_v or_o not_o err_v till_o another_o come_v to_o reverse_v it_o as_o if_o ground_n of_o faith_n may_v vary_v at_o the_o racket_n and_o be_v cast_v of_o each_o side_n as_o a_o cunning_a hand_n may_v lay_v they_o num._n 5_o you_o forget_v again_o omit_v at_o least_o and_o with_o what_o mind_n you_o best_o know_v the_o caution_n which_o i_o add_v for_o i_o say_v the_o determination_n of_o a_o general_n council_n err_v be_v to_o stand_v in_o force_n and_o to_o have_v external_n obedience_n at_o the_o least_o yield_v to_o it_o till_o 7._o evidence_n of_o scripture_n or_o a_o demonstration_n to_o the_o contrary_a make_v the_o error_n appear_v and_o until_o thereupon_o 2._o another_o council_n of_o equal_a authority_n do_v reverse_v it_o and_o indeed_o i_o may_v have_v return_v upon_o you_o again_o if_o a_o general_n council_n not_o confirm_v by_o the_o pope_n may_v err_v which_o you_o affirm_v to_o what_o end_n then_o a_o general_n council_n and_o you_o may_v answer_v yes_o for_o although_o a_o general_n council_n may_v err_v yet_o the_o pope_n as_o head_n of_o the_o church_n can_v a_o excellent_a mean_n of_o unity_n to_o have_v all_o in_o the_o church_n as_o the_o pope_n will_v have_v it_o what_o ever_o scripture_n say_v or_o the_o church_n think_v and_o then_o i_o pray_v to_o what_o end_n a_o general_n council_n will_v his_o holiness_n be_v so_o holy_a as_o to_o confirm_v a_o general_n council_n if_o it_o determine_v against_o he_o and_o as_o for_o etc._n bellarmine_n reason_n why_o a_o general_a council_n shall_v be_v useful_a if_o not_o necessary_a though_o the_o pope_n be_v infallible_a they_o be_v so_o weak_a in_o part_n and_o in_o part_n so_o unworthy_a that_o i_o be_o sorry_a any_o necessity_n of_o a_o bad_a cause_n shall_v force_v so_o learned_a a_o man_n to_o make_v use_n of_o they_o num._n 3_o here_o a._n c._n tell_v i_o the_o caution_n mention_v as_o omit_v make_v my_o answer_n worse_o than_o the_o jesuit_n relate_v it_o and_o that_o in_o two_o 64._o thing_n first_o in_o that_o the_o jesuit_n relate_v it_o thus_o although_o it_o may_v err_v but_o the_o caution_n make_v it_o as_o if_o it_o do_v actual_o err_v second_o in_o that_o the_o jesuit_n relate_v that_o we_o be_v bind_v to_o hold_v it_o till_o another_o come_v to_o reverse_v it_o that_o be_v we_o not_o know_v whether_o it_o do_v err_v or_o not_o but_o only_o that_o it_o may_v err_v but_o the_o caution_n put_v the_o case_n so_o as_o if_o the_o determination_n of_o a_o general_n council_n actual_o err_v be_v not_o ipso_fw-la jure_fw-la invalid_a but_o must_v stand_v in_o force_n and_o have_v external_a obedience_n yield_v to_o it_o till_o not_o only_o moral_a certainty_n but_o evidence_n of_o scripture_n or_o a_o demonstration_n to_o the_o contrary_a make_v the_o error_n appear_v and_o when_o it_o appear_v we_o must_v yield_v our_o obedience_n till_o a_o council_n of_o equal_a authority_n reverse_v it_o which_o perhaps_o will_v not_o be_v find_v in_o a_o whole_a age._n so_o either_o the_o jesuit_n relate_v this_o speech_n true_o or_o less_o disgraceful_o and_o a._n c._n think_v that_o upon_o better_a judgement_n i_o will_v not_o allow_v this_o caution_n true_o i_o shall_v not_o thank_v the_o jesuit_n for_o any_o his_o kindness_n here_o and_o for_o the_o caution_n i_o must_v and_o do_v acknowledge_v it_o i_o even_o upon_o advisement_n and_o that_o whether_o it_o make_v my_o answer_n worse_o or_o better_o and_o i_o think_v far_o that_o the_o jesuit_n have_v no_o great_a cause_n to_o thank_v a._n c._n for_o this_o defence_n of_o his_o relation_n num._n 4_o first_n then_o the_o jesuit_n so_o say_v a._n c._n do_v in_o his_o relation_n make_v it_o but_o a_o supposition_n that_o a_o general_n council_n may_v err_v but_o 63._o the_o caution_n express_v it_o as_o actual_o err_v true_o but_o yet_o i_o hope_v this_o expression_n make_v no_o general_n council_n actual_o err_v and_o then_o it_o come_v all_o to_o one_o whether_o i_o suppose_v that_o such_o a_o council_n may_v err_v or_o that_o it_o do_v err_v and_o it_o be_v fit_a for_o clear_v the_o difficulty_n into_o which_o the_o church_n fall_v in_o such_o a_o case_n to_o suppose_v and_o more_o than_o a_o supposition_n it_o be_v not_o a_o general_a council_n 1._o actual_o err_v then_o as_o only_o under_o a_o possibility_n of_o err_v for_o the_o church_n have_v much_o more_o to_o do_v to_o vindicate_v itself_o from_o such_o a_o error_n actual_o be_v than_o from_o any_o the_o like_a error_n that_o may_v be_v num._n 5_o second_o a._n c._n think_v he_o have_v get_v great_a advantage_n by_o the_o word_n of_o the_o caution_n in_o that_o i_o say_v a_o general_n council_n err_v be_v 63._o to_o stand_v in_o force_n and_o have_v external_a obedience_n at_o least_o so_o far_o as_o it_o consist_v in_o silence_n patience_n and_o forbearance_n yield_v to_o it_o till_o evidence_n of_o scripture_n or_o a_o demonstration_n
ad_fw-la majus_n from_o the_o less_o to_o the_o great_a thus_o 5._o if_o two_o or_o three_o gather_v together_o in_o my_o name_n do_v always_o obtain_v that_o which_o they_o ask_v at_o god_n hand_n to_o wit_n wisdom_n and_o knowledge_n of_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v necessary_a for_o they_o how_o much_o more_o shall_v all_o the_o bishop_n gather_v together_o in_o a_o council_n always_o obtain_v wisdom_n and_o knowledge_n to_o judge_v those_o thing_n which_o belong_v to_o the_o direction_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n i_o answer_v first_o it_o be_v most_o true_a that_o here_o be_v little_a strength_n in_o these_o word_n alone_o for_o though_o the_o father_n make_v different_a interpretation_n of_o this_o place_n of_o scripture_n yet_o 18._o most_o of_o they_o agree_v in_o this_o that_o this_o place_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v of_o consent_n in_o prayer_n and_o this_o be_v manifest_a enough_o in_o the_o text_n itself_o second_o i_o think_v there_o be_v as_o little_a strength_n in_o they_o by_o the_o argument_n draw_fw-mi à _fw-fr minori_fw-la ad_fw-la majus_n and_o that_o i_o prove_v two_o way_n first_o because_o though_o that_o argument_n hold_v in_o natural_a and_o necessary_a thing_n yet_o i_o doubt_v it_o hold_v not_o either_o in_o voluntary_a or_o promise_v thing_n or_o thing_n which_o depend_v upon_o their_o institution_n for_o he_o that_o promise_v the_o less_o do_v not_o hereby_o promise_v the_o great_a and_o he_o which_o will_v do_v the_o less_o will_v not_o always_o do_v the_o great_a second_o because_o this_o argument_n from_o the_o less_o to_o the_o great_a can_v never_o follow_v but_o where_o and_o so_o far_o as_o the_o thing_n upon_o which_o the_o argument_n be_v found_v agree_v to_o the_o less_o for_o if_o it_o do_v not_o always_o agree_v to_o the_o less_o it_o can_v necessary_o pass_v from_o thence_o to_o the_o great_a now_o that_o upon_o which_o this_o argument_n be_v ground_v here_o be_v infallible_a hear_n and_o grant_v the_o prayer_n of_o two_o or_o three_o meet_v together_o in_o the_o name_n of_o christ._n but_o this_o infallibility_n be_v not_o always_o find_v in_o this_o less_o congregation_n where_o two_o or_o three_o be_v gather_v together_o for_o they_o often_o meet_v and_o pray_v yet_o obtain_v not_o because_o there_o be_v divers_a other_o condition_n necessary_o require_v as_o s._n chrysostom_n non_fw-la observe_v to_o make_v the_o prayer_n of_o a_o congregation_n hear_v beside_o their_o gather_v together_o in_o the_o name_n of_o christ._n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v not_o extend_v to_o a_o great_a congregation_n or_o council_n unless_o the_o same_o condition_n be_v still_o observe_v neither_o do_v christ_n promise_n ero_n in_o medio_fw-la i_o will_v be_v in_o the_o midst_n of_o they_o infer_v that_o they_o the_o great_a or_o the_o less_o three_o or_o three_o hundred_o have_v all_o even_o 2._o necessary_a thing_n infallible_o grant_v unto_o they_o as_o oft_o as_o they_o ask_v if_o they_o ask_v not_o as_o well_o as_o they_o ought_v as_o what_o they_o ought_v and_o yet_o most_o true_a it_o be_v that_o where_o more_o or_o few_o be_v gather_v together_o in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n there_o be_v he_o in_o the_o midst_n of_o they_o but_o to_o assist_v and_o to_o grant_v whatsoever_o he_o shall_v find_v fit_a for_o they_o not_o infallible_o whatsoever_o they_o shall_v think_v fit_a to_o ask_v for_o themselves_o and_o therefore_o s._n cyprian_n though_o he_o use_v this_o very_a argument_n à _fw-la minori_fw-la ad_fw-la majus_n from_o the_o less_o to_o the_o great_a yet_o he_o presume_v not_o to_o extend_v it_o as_o bellarmine_n do_v to_o the_o obtain_n of_o infallibility_n but_o only_o use_v it_o in_o the_o general_n way_n in_o which_o there_o neither_o be_v nor_o can_v be_v doubt_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o it_o thus_o 4._o if_o two_o that_o be_v of_o one_o mind_n to_o god-ward_o can_v do_v so_o much_o what_o may_v be_v do_v if_o there_o be_v unanimity_n among_o all_o christian_n undoubted_o more_o but_o not_o all_o what_o soever_o they_o shall_v ask_v unless_o all_o other_o requisite_n be_v present_a three_o in_o this_o their_o own_o 4._o great_a champion_n disagree_v from_o bellarmine_n or_o he_o from_o they_o for_o gregory_n de_fw-fr valentia_n and_o stapleton_n tell_v we_o that_o this_o place_n do_v not_o belong_v proper_o to_o prove_v a_o infallible_a certainty_n of_o any_o sentence_n in_o which_o more_o agree_v in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n but_o to_o the_o efficacy_n of_o consent_n for_o obtain_v that_o which_o more_o shall_v pray_v for_o in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n if_o at_o least_o that_o be_v for_o their_o soul_n health_n for_o else_o you_o may_v prove_v out_o of_o this_o place_n that_o not_o only_o the_o definition_n of_o a_o general_n council_n but_o even_o of_o a_o provincial_n nay_o of_o two_o or_o three_o bishop_n gather_v together_o be_v valid_a and_o that_o without_o the_o pope_n assent_n num._n 7_o the_o last_o place_n mention_v for_o the_o infallibility_n of_o general_n 28._o counsel_n be_v that_o act_v 15._o where_o the_o apostle_n say_v of_o themselves_o and_o the_o council_n hold_v by_o they_o it_o seem_v good_a to_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o to_o we_o and_o they_o may_v well_o say_v it_o for_o they_o have_v infallible_o the_o assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o they_o keep_v close_o to_o his_o direction_n but_o i_o do_v not_o find_v that_o any_o general_a council_n since_o though_o they_o do_v implore_v as_o they_o ought_v the_o assistance_n of_o that_o bless_a spirit_n do_v ever_o take_v upon_o they_o to_o say_v in_o terminis_fw-la in_o express_a term_n of_o their_o definition_n visum_fw-la est_fw-la spiritui_fw-la sancto_fw-la &_o nobis_fw-la it_o seem_v good_a to_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o to_o us._n acknowledge_v even_o thereby_o as_o i_o conceive_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o difference_n in_o the_o certainty_n of_o those_o thing_n which_o a_o general_a council_n at_o after_o determine_v in_o the_o church_n and_o those_o which_o be_v settle_v by_o the_o apostle_n when_o they_o sit_v in_o council_n but_o though_o i_o do_v not_o find_v that_o they_o use_v this_o speech_n punctual_o and_o in_o term_n yet_o the_o father_n when_o they_o meet_v in_o council_n be_v confident_a and_o speak_v it_o out_o that_o they_o have_v assistance_n from_o the_o holy_a ghost_n yet_o so_o as_o that_o they_o neither_o take_v themselves_o nor_o the_o counsel_n they_o sit_v in_o as_o infallible_o guide_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n as_o the_o apostle_n be_v and_o valentia_n be_v very_o right_a 45._o that_o though_o the_o council_n say_v they_o be_v gather_v together_o in_o the_o holy_a ghost_n yet_o the_o father_n be_v neither_o arrogant_a in_o use_v the_o speech_n nor_o yet_o infallible_a for_o all_o that_o and_o this_o be_v true_a whether_o the_o pope_n approve_v or_o disapprove_v their_o definition_n though_o valentia_n will_v not_o admit_v that_o the_o pope_n must_v be_v with_o he_o infallible_a what_o ever_o come_v of_o it_o now_o though_o this_o be_v but_o a_o example_n and_o include_v no_o precept_n yet_o both_o 3._o stapleton_n and_o locus_fw-la bellarmine_n make_v this_o place_n a_o proper_a proof_n of_o the_o infallibility_n of_o general_n counsel_n and_o prima_fw-la stapleton_n say_v the_o decree_n of_o counsel_n be_v the_o very_a oracle_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n which_o be_v little_a short_a of_o blasphemy_n and_o ibid._n bellarmine_n add_v that_o because_o all_o other_o counsel_n borrow_v their_o form_n from_o this_o therefore_o other_o lawful_a counsel_n may_v affirm_v also_o that_o their_o decree_n be_v the_o decree_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n little_o consider_v therewhile_o that_o it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o borrow_v the_o form_n and_o another_o thing_n to_o borrow_v the_o certainty_n and_o the_o infallibility_n of_o a_o council_n for_o suppose_v that_o after-councel_n do_v follow_v the_o form_n of_o that_o first_o council_n exact_o in_o all_o circumstance_n yet_o i_o hope_v no_o advise_a man_n will_v say_v there_o be_v the_o like_a infallibility_n in_o other_o counsel_n where_o no_o man_n sit_v that_o be_v inspire_v as_o be_v in_o this_o where_o all_o that_o sit_v as_o judge_n be_v inspire_v or_o if_o any_o jesuit_n will_v be_v so_o bold_a as_o to_o say_v it_o he_o have_v need_n bring_v very_o good_a proof_n for_o it_o and_o far_o better_a than_o any_o be_v bring_v yet_o now_o that_o all_o counsel_n be_v not_o so_o infallible_a as_o be_v this_o of_o the_o apostle_n nor_o the_o cause_n handle_v in_o they_o as_o there_o they_o be_v be_v manifest_a by_o 7._o one_o of_o their_o own_o who_o tell_v we_o plain_o that_o the_o apostle_n in_o their_o council_n deal_v very_o prudent_o do_v not_o precipitate_v their_o judgement_n but_o weigh_v all_o thing_n for_o in_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o which_o touch_v the_o conscience_n it_o be_v not_o enough_o to_o
say_v volumus_fw-la &_o mandamus_fw-la we_o will_v and_o command_n and_o thus_o the_o apostle_n meet_v together_o in_o simplicity_n and_o singleness_n seek_v nothing_o but_o god_n and_o the_o salvation_n of_o man_n and_o what_o wonder_v if_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v present_a in_o such_o a_o council_n nos_fw-la alitèr_fw-la but_o we_o meet_v otherwise_o in_o great_a pomp_n and_o seek_v ourselves_o and_o promise_v ourselves_o that_o we_o may_v do_v any_o thing_n out_o of_o the_o plenitude_n of_o our_o power_n and_o how_o can_v the_o holy_a ghost_n allow_v of_o such_o meeting_n and_o if_o not_o allow_v or_o approve_v the_o meeting_n then_o certain_o not_o concur_v to_o make_v every_o thing_n infallible_a that_o shall_v be_v conclude_v in_o they_o num._n 8_o and_o for_o all_o the_o place_n togehther_o weigh_v they_o with_o indifferency_n and_o either_o they_o speak_v of_o the_o church_n include_v the_o apostle_n as_o all_o of_o they_o do_v and_o then_o all_o grant_v the_o uoyce_n of_o the_o church_n be_v god_n voice_n divine_a and_o infallible_a or_o else_o they_o be_v general_n unlimited_a and_o applyable_a to_o private_a assembly_n as_o well_o as_o general_a counsel_n which_o none_o grant_v to_o be_v infallible_a but_o some_o mad_a enthusiast_n or_o else_o they_o be_v limit_v not_o simple_o into_o all_o truth_n but_o all_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n in_o which_o i_o shall_v easy_o grant_v a_o general_n council_n can_v err_v suffer_v itself_o to_o be_v lead_v by_o this_o spirit_n of_o truth_n in_o the_o scripture_n and_o not_o take_v upon_o it_o to_o lead_v both_o the_o scripture_n and_o the_o spirit_n for_o suppose_v these_o place_n or_o any_o other_o do_v promise_v assistance_n even_o to_o infallibility_n yet_o they_o grant_v it_o not_o to_o every_o general_a council_n but_o to_o the_o catholic_n body_n of_o the_o church_n itself_o and_o if_o it_o be_v in_o the_o whole_a church_n principal_o then_o be_v it_o in_o a_o general_n council_n but_o by_o consequent_a as_o the_o council_n represent_v the_o whole_a and_o that_o which_o belong_v to_o a_o thing_n by_o consequent_a do_v not_o otherwise_o nor_o long_o belong_v unto_o it_o than_o it_o consent_v and_o cleave_v to_o that_o upon_o which_o it_o be_v a_o consequent_a and_o therefore_o a_o general_n council_n have_v not_o this_o assistance_n but_o as_o it_o keep_v to_o the_o whole_a church_n and_o spouse_n of_o christ_n who_o it_o be_v to_o hear_v his_o word_n and_o determine_v by_o it_o and_o therefore_o if_o a_o general_n council_n will_v go_v out_o of_o the_o church_n way_n it_o may_v easy_o go_v without_o the_o church_n truth_n num._n 1_o four_o i_o consider_v that_o all_o agree_v that_o the_o church_n in_o general_n 4._o can_v never_o err_v from_o the_o faith_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n no_o persecution_n no_o temptation_n no_o 28_o gate_n of_o hell_n whatsoever_o be_v mean_v by_o they_o can_v ever_o so_o prevail_v against_o it_o for_o all_o the_o member_n of_o the_o militant_a church_n can_v err_v either_o in_o the_o whole_a faith_n or_o in_o any_o article_n of_o it_o it_o be_v impossible_a for_o if_o all_o may_v so_o err_v there_o can_v be_v no_o union_n between_o they_o as_o member_n and_o christ_n the_o head_n and_o no_o union_n between_o head_n and_o member_n no_o body_n and_o so_o no_o church_n which_o can_v be_v but_o there_o be_v not_o the_o like_a consent_n that_o 4._o general_a counsel_n can_v err_v and_o it_o seem_v strange_a to_o i_o the_o father_n have_v to_o do_v with_o so_o many_o heretic_n and_o so_o many_o of_o they_o oppose_v church-authority_n that_o in_o the_o condemnation_n of_o those_o heretic_n this_o proposition_n even_o in_o term_n a_o general_n council_n can_v err_v shall_v not_o be_v find_v in_o any_o one_o of_o they_o that_o i_o can_v yet_o see_v now_o suppose_v it_o be_v true_a that_o no_o general_n council_n have_v err_v in_o any_o matter_n of_o moment_n to_o this_o day_n which_o will_v not_o be_v find_v true_a yet_o this_o will_v not_o 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matter_n of_o fact_n but_o of_o right_a and_o of_o universal_a question_n of_o right_a then_o be_v he_o to_o be_v understand_v of_o etiam_fw-la precept_n of_o manner_n not_o of_o point_n of_o faith_n where_o he_o have_v first_o run_v himself_o upon_o a_o contradiction_n and_o then_o we_o have_v gain_v this_o ground_n upon_o he_o that_o either_o his_o answer_n be_v nothing_o or_o else_o against_o his_o own_o state_n of_o the_o question_n a_o general_n council_n can_v err_v in_o precept_n of_o manner_n so_o belike_o when_o bellarmine_n be_v at_o a_o shift_n a_o general_n council_n can_v and_o can_v err_v in_o precept_n of_o manner_n and_o both_o be_v out_o for_o the_o whole_a dispute_n of_o s._n augustine_n be_v against_o the_o error_n of_o s._n cyprian_n follow_v by_o the_o donatist_n which_o be_v a_o error_n in_o faith_n namely_o that_o true_a baptism_n can_v not_o be_v give_v by_o heretic_n and_o such_o as_o be_v out_o of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o proof_n which_o stapleton_n and_o bellarmine_n draw_v out_o of_o the_o subsequent_a word_n â—peritur_fw-la when_o by_o any_o experiment_n of_o thing_n that_o which_o be_v shut_v be_v open_v be_v too_o weak_a for_o experiment_n there_o be_v not_o of_o fact_n nor_o be_v the_o word_n conclusum_fw-la est_fw-la as_o if_o it_o be_v of_o a_o rule_n of_o discipline_n conclude_v as_o stapleton_n cite_v they_o but_o a_o far_a experiment_n or_o proof_n of_o the_o question_n in_o hand_n and_o pertain_v to_o faith_n which_o be_v then_o shut_v up_o and_o as_o s._n augustine_n after_o speak_v involuta_fw-la wrap_v up_o in_o cloudy_a darkness_n num._n 3_o next_o stapleton_n 4._o will_v have_v it_o that_o if_o s._n augustine_n do_v speak_v of_o a_o cause_n of_o faith_n than_o his_o meaning_n be_v that_o late_a general_n counsel_n can_v mend_v that_o be_v explicate_v more_o perfect_o that_o faith_n which_o lie_v hide_v in_o the_o seed_n of_o ancient_a doctrine_n he_o make_v instance_n that_o about_o the_o divinity_n of_o christ_n the_o council_n of_o ephesus_n explicate_v the_o first_o of_o nice_a chalcedon_n both_o of_o they_o constantinople_n chalcedon_n and_o then_o conclude_v etc._n in_o all_o which_o thing_n none_o of_o these_o counsel_n teach_v that_o which_o be_v erroneous_a a_o excellent_a conclusion_n these_o counsel_n and_o these_o in_o this_o thing_n teach_v no_o error_n and_o be_v only_o explain_v therefore_o no_o council_n can_v err_v in_o any_o matter_n of_o faith_n or_o therefore_o s._n augustine_n speak_v not_o of_o a_o emendation_n of_o error_n but_o of_o a_o explanation_n of_o sense_n whereas_o every_o eye_n see_v neither_o of_o these_o can_v follow_v num._n 4_o now_o that_o s._n augustine_n mean_v plain_o that_o even_o a_o plenary_a council_n may_v err_v and_o that_o saepâ—_n often_o for_o that_o be_v his_o word_n and_o that_o in_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o might_n and_o ought_v
assembly_n it_o be_v probable_a it_o be_v no_o demonstration_n and_o the_o producer_n of_o it_o aught_o to_o rest_n and_o not_o to_o trouble_v the_o church_n num._n 2_o nor_o be_v this_o hooker_n alone_a nor_o be_v it_o new_o think_v on_o by_o we_o it_o be_v a_o ground_n in_o nature_n which_o grace_n do_v ever_o set_v right_a never_o undermine_v and_o 4._o s._n augustine_n have_v it_o twice_o in_o one_o chapter_n that_o s._n cyprian_n and_o that_o council_n at_o carthage_n will_v have_v present_o yield_v to_o any_o one_o that_o will_v demonstraâ—ti_fw-la demonstrate_v truth_n nay_o it_o be_v a_o rule_n with_o 4._o he_o consent_v of_o nation_n authority_n confirm_v by_o miracle_n and_o antiquity_n s._n peter_n chair_n and_o succession_n from_o it_o motive_n to_o keep_v he_o in_o the_o catholic_a church_n must_v not_o hold_v he_o against_o demonstration_n of_o truth_n 4._o which_o if_o it_o be_v so_o clear_o demonstrate_v that_o it_o can_v come_v into_o doubt_n it_o be_v to_o be_v 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bellarmine_n too_o of_o lean_v to_o a_o private_a spirit_n for_o neither_o do_v he_o express_v who_o shall_v judge_v whether_o the_o error_n be_v intolerable_a num._n 4_o this_o will_v not_o down_o with_o you_o but_o the_o definition_n of_o a_o general_n council_n be_v and_o must_v be_v infallible_a your_o fellow_n tell_v we_o and_o you_o can_v affirm_v no_o more_o that_o the_o voice_n of_o the_o church_n determine_v in_o council_n be_v not_o 1._o humane_a but_o divine_a that_o be_v well_o divine_a then_o sure_a infallible_a yea_o but_o the_o proposition_n stick_v in_o the_o throat_n of_o they_o that_o will_v utter_v it_o it_o be_v not_o divine_a simple_o but_o in_o a_o â—1_n manner_n divine_a why_o but_o then_o sure_o not_o infallible_a because_o it_o may_v speak_v loud_a in_o that_o manner_n in_o which_o it_o be_v not_o divine_a nay_o more_o the_o church_n forsooth_o be_v a_o infallible_a foundation_n of_o faith_n 3._o in_o a_o high_a kind_n than_o the_o scripture_n for_o the_o 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be_v but_o in_o a_o sort_n can_v never_o be_v a_o foundation_n in_o a_o high_a degree_n than_o that_o which_o be_v absolute_a and_o every_o way_n such_o therefore_o neither_o can_v the_o definition_n of_o the_o church_n be_v so_o infallible_a as_o the_o scripture_n much_o less_o in_o altiori_fw-la genere_fw-la in_o a_o high_a kind_n than_o the_o scripture_n but_o because_o when_o all_o other_o thing_n fail_v you_o fly_v to_o this_o that_o the_o church_n definition_n in_o a_o general_n council_n be_v by_o inspiration_n and_o so_o divine_a and_o infallible_a my_o haste_n shall_v not_o carry_v i_o from_o a_o little_a consideration_n of_o that_o too_o num._n 1_o sixthly_a then_o if_o the_o definition_n of_o a_o general_n council_n be_v infallible_a 6._o than_o the_o infallibility_n of_o it_o be_v either_o in_o the_o conclusion_n and_o in_o the_o mean_n that_o prove_v it_o or_o in_o the_o conclusion_n not_o the_o mean_n or_o in_o the_o mean_n not_o the_o conclusion_n but_o it_o be_v infallible_a in_o none_o of_o these_o not_o in_o the_o first_o the_o conclusion_n and_o the_o mean_n for_o there_o be_v divers_a deliberation_n in_o general_a counsel_n where_o the_o conclusion_n be_v catholic_a but_o the_o mean_n by_o which_o they_o prove_v it_o not_o infallible_a not_o in_o the_o second_o the_o conclusion_n and_o not_o the_o mean_n for_o the_o conclusion_n must_v follow_v the_o nature_n of_o the_o premise_n or_o principle_n out_o of_o which_o it_o be_v deduce_v therefore_o if_o those_o which_o the_o council_n use_v be_v sometime_o uncertain_a as_o be_v prove_v before_o the_o conclusion_n can_v be_v infallible_a not_o in_o the_o three_o the_o mean_n and_o not_o the_o conclusion_n for_o that_o can_v be_v true_a and_o necessary_a if_o the_o mean_n be_v so_o and_o this_o i_o be_o sure_a you_o will_v never_o grant_v because_o if_o you_o shall_v you_o must_v deny_v the_o infallibility_n which_o you_o seek_v to_o establish_v num._n 2_o to_o this_o for_o i_o confess_v the_o argument_n be_v old_a but_o can_v never_o be_v wear_v out_o nor_o shift_v off_o your_o great_a master_n 11_o stapleton_n who_o be_v miserable_o hamper_v in_o it_o and_o indeed_o so_o be_v you_o all_o answer_v that_o the_o infallibility_n of_o a_o council_n be_v in_o the_o second_o course_n that_o be_v 8._o it_o be_v infallible_a in_o the_o conclusion_n though_o it_o be_v uncertain_a and_o fallible_a in_o the_o mean_n and_o proof_n of_o it_o how_o come_v this_o to_o pass_v it_o be_v a_o thing_n altogether_o unknown_a in_o nature_n and_o be_v too_o that_o fallible_a principle_n can_v either_o father_n or_o mother_n beget_v or_o bring_v forth_o a_o infallible_a conclusion_n num._n 3_o well_o that_o be_v grant_v in_o nature_n and_o in_o all_o argumentation_n that_o cause_v knowledge_n but_o we_o shall_v have_v reason_n for_o it_o 4._o first_o because_o the_o church_n be_v discursive_a and_o use_v the_o weight_n and_o moment_n of_o reason_n in_o the_o mean_n but_o be_v prophetical_a and_o depend_v upon_o immediate_a revelation_n from_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n in_o deliver_v the_o conclusion_n it_o be_v but_o the_o make_n of_o this_o appear_v and_o all_o controversy_n be_v at_o a_o end_n well_o i_o will_v not_o discourse_v here_o to_o what_o end_n there_o be_v any_o use_n of_o mean_n if_o the_o conclusion_n be_v prophetical_a which_o yet_o be_v just_o urge_v for_o no_o good_a cause_n can_v be_v assign_v of_o it_o if_o it_o be_v prophetical_a in_o the_o conclusion_n i_o speak_v still_o of_o the_o present_a churchy_n â—_z for_o that_o which_o include_v the_o apostle_n which_o have_v the_o spirit_n of_o prophecy_n and_o immediate_a revelation_n be_v ever_o prophetic_a in_o the_o definition_n but_o than_o that_o be_v infallible_a in_o the_o mean_v too_o that_o since_o it_o deliver_v the_o conclusion_n not_o according_a to_o nature_n and_o art_n that_o be_v out_o of_o principle_n which_o can_v bear_v it_o there_o must_v be_v some_o supernatural_a authority_n which_o must_v 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argument_n thus_o neither_o the_o church_n nor_o any_o member_n of_o the_o church_n can_v know_v that_o this_o pope_n which_o now_o sit_v or_o any_o other_o that_o have_v be_v or_o shall_v be_v be_v infallible_a for_o he_o be_v not_o infallible_a unless_o he_o be_v pope_n and_o he_o be_v not_o pope_n unless_o he_o be_v in_o holy_a order_n and_o he_o can_v be_v so_o unless_o he_o have_v receive_v those_o holy_a order_n and_o that_o from_o one_o that_o have_v power_n to_o ordain_v and_o those_o holy_a order_n in_o your_o doctrine_n be_v a_o sacrament_n and_o a_o sacrament_n be_v not_o perfect_o give_v if_o he_o that_o administer_v it_o have_v not_o intentionem_fw-la faciendi_fw-la quod_fw-la facit_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la a_o intention_n to_o do_v that_o which_o the_o church_n do_v by_o sacrament_n now_o who_o can_v possible_o tell_v that_o the_o bishop_n which_o give_v the_o pope_n order_n be_v first_o a_o man_n qualify_v to_o give_v they_o and_o second_o so_o devout_o set_v upon_o his_o work_n that_o he_o have_v at_o the_o instant_n of_o give_v they_o a_o intention_n and_o purpose_n to_o do_v therein_o as_o the_o church_n do_v surely_n none_o but_o that_o bishop_n himself_o and_o his_o testimony_n of_o himself_o and_o his_o own_o act_n such_o especial_o as_o if_o faulty_a he_o will_v be_v loath_a to_o confess_v can_v neither_o give_v knowledge_n nor_o belief_n sufficient_a that_o the_o pope_n according_a to_o this_o canon_n be_v in_o holy_a order_n so_o upon_o the_o whole_a matter_n let_v the_o romanist_n take_v which_o they_o will_v i_o will_v give_v they_o free_a choice_n either_o this_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n be_v false_a divinity_n and_o there_o be_v no_o such_o intention_n necessary_a to_o the_o essence_n and_o be_v of_o a_o sacrament_n or_o if_o it_o be_v true_a it_o be_v impossible_a for_o any_o man_n to_o know_v and_o for_o any_o advise_a man_n to_o believe_v that_o the_o pope_n be_v infallible_a in_o his_o judicial_a sentence_n in_o thing_n belong_v to_o the_o faith_n and_o so_o here_o again_o a_o general_n council_n at_o least_o such_o a_o one_o as_o that_o of_o trent_n be_v can_v err_v or_o the_o pope_n be_v not_o infallible_a num._n 12_o but_o this_o be_v a_o argument_n ad_fw-la hominem_fw-la good_a against_o your_o party_n only_o which_o maintain_v this_o council_n but_o the_o plain_a truth_n be_v both_o be_v error_n for_o neither_o be_v the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n infallible_a in_o his_o judicial_n about_o the_o faith_n nor_o be_v this_o intention_n of_o either_o bishop_n or_o priest_n of_o absolute_a necessity_n to_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o sacrament_n so_o as_o to_o make_v void_a the_o gracious_a institution_n of_o christ_n in_o case_n by_o any_o tentation_n the_o priest_n thought_n shall_v wander_v from_o his_o work_n at_o the_o instant_n of_o use_v the_o essential_o of_o a_o sacrament_n or_o have_v in_o he_o a_o actual_a intention_n to_o scorn_v the_o church_n and_o you_o may_v remember_v if_o you_o please_v that_o a_o neapolitan_a fuit_fw-la bishop_n then_o present_a at_o trent_n dispute_v this_o case_n very_o learned_o and_o make_v it_o most_o evident_a that_o this_o opinion_n can_v be_v defend_v but_o that_o it_o must_v open_v a_o way_n for_o any_o unworthy_a priest_n to_o make_v infinite_a nullity_n in_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n and_o his_o argument_n be_v of_o such_o strength_n 1622._o ut_fw-la caeteros_fw-la theologos_fw-la dederint_fw-la in_o stuporem_fw-la as_o amaze_v the_o other_o divine_n which_o be_v present_a and_o conclude_v that_o no_o internal_a intention_n be_v require_v in_o the_o minister_n of_o a_o sacrament_n but_o that_o intention_n which_o do_v appear_v opere_fw-la externo_fw-la in_o the_o work_n itself_o perform_v by_o he_o and_o that_o if_o he_o have_v unworthy_o any_o wander_a thought_n nay_o more_o any_o contrary_a intention_n within_o he_o yet_o it_o neither_o do_v nor_o can_v hinder_v the_o bless_a effect_n of_o any_o sacrament_n and_o most_o certain_a it_o be_v if_o this_o be_v not_o true_a beside_o all_o other_o inconvenience_n which_o be_v many_o no_o man_n can_v secure_v himself_o upon_o any_o doubt_n or_o trouble_v in_o his_o conscience_n that_o he_o have_v true_o and_o real_o be_v make_v partaker_n of_o any_o sacrament_n whatsoever_o no_o not_o of_o baptism_n and_o so_o by_o consequence_n be_v leave_v in_o doubt_n whether_o he_o be_v a_o christian_n or_o no_o even_o after_o he_o be_v baptise_a whereas_o it_o be_v most_o impossible_a that_o christ_n shall_v so_o order_v his_o sacrament_n and_o so_o leave_v they_o to_o his_o church_n as_o that_o poor_a believer_n in_o his_o name_n by_o any_o unworthiness_n of_o any_o of_o his_o priest_n shall_v not_o be_v able_a to_o know_v whether_o they_o have_v receive_v his_o sacrament_n or_o not_o even_o while_o they_o have_v receive_v they_o and_o yet_o for_o all_o this_o such_o great_a lover_n of_o truth_n and_o such_o careful_a pastor_n over_o the_o flock_n of_o christ_n be_v these_o trent-fathers_n that_o they_o regard_v none_o of_o this_o but_o go_v on_o in_o the_o usual_a tract_n and_o make_v their_o decree_n for_o the_o internal_a intention_n and_o purpose_n of_o the_o priest_n and_o that_o the_o sacrament_n be_v invalid_a without_o it_o num._n 13_o nay_o one_o argument_n more_o there_o be_v and_o from_o your_o own_o ground_n too_o that_o make_v it_o more_o than_o manifest_a that_o the_o pope_n can_v err_v not_o personal_o only_a but_o judicial_o also_o and_o so_o teach_v false_a doctrine_n to_o the_o church_n which_o 1._o bellarmine_n tell_v we_o no_o pope_n have_v do_v or_o can_v do_v and_o a_o maxim_n it_o be_v with_o you_o that_o a_o general_n council_n can_v err_v if_o it_o be_v confirm_v by_o the_o pope_n 1._o but_o if_o it_o be_v confirm_v than_o it_o can_v err_v where_o first_o this_o be_v very_o improper_a language_n for_o i_o hope_v no_o council_n be_v confirm_v till_o it_o be_v finish_v and_o when_o it_o be_v finish_v even_o before_o the_o pope_n confirmation_n be_v put_v to_o it_o either_o it_o have_v err_v or_o not_o err_v if_o it_o have_v err_v the_o pope_n ought_v not_o to_o confirm_v it_o and_o if_o he_o do_v it_o be_v a_o void_a act_n for_o no_o power_n can_v make_v falsehood_n truth_n if_o it_o have_v not_o err_v than_o it_o be_v true_a before_o the_o pope_n confirm_v it_o so_o his_o confirmation_n add_v nothing_o but_o his_o own_o assent_n therefore_o his_o confirmation_n of_o a_o general_n council_n as_o you_o will_v needs_o call_v it_o be_v at_o the_o most_o signum_fw-la non_fw-la causa_fw-la a_o sign_n and_o that_o such_o as_o may_v fail_v but_o no_o cause_n of_o the_o counsel_n not_o err_v but_o than_o second_o if_o a_o general_n council_n confirm_v as_o you_o will_v have_v it_o by_o the_o pope_n have_v err_v and_o so_o can_v err_v then_o certain_o the_o pope_n can_v err_v judicial_o for_o he_o never_o give_v a_o more_o solemn_a sentence_n for_o truth_n than_o when_o he_o decree_v any_o thing_n in_o a_o general_n council_n therefore_o if_o he_o have_v err_v and_o can_v err_v there_o then_o certain_o he_o can_v err_v in_o his_o definitive_a sentence_n about_o the_o faith_n and_o be_v not_o infallible_a now_o that_o he_o have_v err_v and_o therefore_o can_v err_v in_o a_o general_n council_n confirm_v in_o which_o he_o take_v upon_o he_o to_o teach_v all_o christendom_n be_v most_o clear_a and_o evident_a for_o the_o pope_n teach_v in_o and_o by_o the_o 1._o council_n of_o lateran_n confirm_v by_o innocent_a the_o three_o christ_n be_v present_a in_o the_o sacrament_n by_o way_n of_o transubstantiation_n and_o in_o and_o by_o the_o 13._o council_n of_o constance_n the_o administration_n of_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n to_o the_o laity_n in_o one_o kind_n notwithstanding_o christ_n institution_n of_o it_o in_o both_o kind_n for_o all_o and_o in_o and_o by_o the_o invocation_n council_n of_o trent_n invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o adoration_n of_o image_n to_o the_o great_a scandal_n of_o christianity_n and_o as_o great_a hazard_n of_o the_o weak_a now_o that_o these_o particular_n among_o many_o be_v error_n in_o divinity_n and_o about_o the_o faith_n be_v manifest_a both_o by_o scripture_n &_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o transubstantiation_n first_o that_o never_o be_v hear_v of_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n nor_o till_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n nor_o can_v it_o be_v prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n and_o take_v proper_o can_v stand_v with_o the_o ground_n of_o christian_a religion_n as_o for_o communion_n in_o one_o kind_n christ_n institution_n be_v clear_a against_o that_o and_o not_o only_o the_o primitive_a church_n but_o the_o whole_a church_n of_o christ_n keep_v it_o so_o till_o within_o less_o than_o four_o hundred_o year_n for_o 38._o aquinas_n confess_v it_o be_v so_o in_o use_n even_o to_o
define_v any_o one_o divine_a truth_n how_o can_v we_o be_v infallible_o certain_a of_o any_o other_o truth_n define_v by_o it_o for_o if_o it_o may_v err_v in_o one_o 15._o why_o not_o in_o another_o and_o another_o and_o so_o in_o all_o it_o be_v most_o true_a if_o such_o a_o council_n may_v err_v in_o one_o it_o may_v in_o another_o and_o another_o and_o so_o in_o all_o of_o like_a nature_n i_o say_v in_o all_o of_o like_a nature_n and_o a._n c._n may_v remember_v he_o express_v himself_o a_o little_a 71._o before_o to_o speak_v of_o the_o define_v of_o such_o divine_a truth_n as_o be_v not_o absolute_o necessary_a to_o be_v express_o know_v and_o actual_o believe_v of_o all_o sort_n of_o man_n now_o there_o be_v there_o can_v be_v no_o necessity_n of_o a_o infallible_a certainty_n in_o the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n and_o much_o less_o in_o a_o general_n council_n of_o thing_n not_o 5._o absolute_o necessary_a in_o themselves_o for_o christ_n do_v not_o intend_v to_o leave_v a_o infallibe_n certainty_n in_o his_o church_n to_o satisfy_v either_o contentious_a or_o curious_a or_o presumptuous_a spirit_n and_o therefore_o in_o thing_n not_o fundamental_a not_o necessary_a it_o be_v no_o matter_n if_o counsel_n err_v in_o one_o and_o another_o and_o a_o three_o the_o whole_a church_n have_v power_n and_o mean_n enough_o to_o see_v that_o no_o council_n err_v in_o necessary_a thing_n and_o this_o be_v certainty_n enough_o for_o the_o church_n to_o have_v or_o for_o christian_n to_o expect_v especial_o since_o the_o foundation_n be_v so_o strong_o and_o so_o plain_o lay_v down_o in_o scripture_n and_o the_o creed_n that_o a_o modest_a man_n may_v just_o wonder_v why_o any_o man_n shall_v run_v to_o any_o late_a council_n at_o least_o for_o any_o infallible_a certainty_n num._n 22_o yet_o a._n c._n have_v more_o question_n to_o ask_v and_o his_o next_o be_v how_o 72._o we_o can_v according_a to_o the_o ordinary_a course_n be_v infallible_o assure_v that_o it_o err_v in_o one_o and_o not_o in_o another_o when_o it_o equal_o by_o one_o and_o the_o same_o authority_n define_v both_o to_o be_v divine_a truth_n a._n c._n take_v here_o upon_o he_o to_o defend_v m._n fisher_n the_o jesuit_n can_v not_o but_o see_v what_o i_o have_v former_o write_v concern_v this_o difficult_a question_n about_o general_a counsel_n and_o to_o all_o that_o be_v large_a he_o reply_v little_a or_o nothing_o now_o when_o he_o think_v that_o may_v be_v forget_v or_o as_o if_o he_o do_v not_o at_o all_o lie_n in_o his_o way_n he_o here_o turn_v questionist_n to_o disturb_v that_o business_n and_o indeed_o the_o church_n as_o much_o as_o he_o can_v but_o to_o this_o question_n also_o i_o answer_v again_o if_o any_o general_a council_n do_v now_o err_v either_o it_o err_v in_o thing_n absolute_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n or_o in_o thing_n not_o necessary_a if_o it_o err_v in_o thing_n necessary_a we_o can_v be_v infallible_o assure_v by_o the_o scripture_n the_o creed_n the_o four_o first_o counsel_n and_o the_o whole_a church_n where_o it_o err_v in_o one_o and_o not_o in_o another_o if_o it_o be_v in_o non_fw-fr necessariis_fw-la in_o thing_n not_o necessary_a it_o be_v not_o requisite_a that_o we_o shall_v have_v for_o they_o a_o infallible_a assurance_n as_o for_o that_o which_o follow_v it_o be_v notorious_o both_o cunning_a and_o false_a it_o be_v false_a to_o suppose_v that_o a_o general_n council_n define_v two_o thing_n for_o divine_a truth_n and_o err_v in_o one_o but_o not_o err_v in_o another_o do_v define_v both_o equal_o by_o one_o and_o the_o same_o authority_n and_o it_o be_v cunning_a because_o these_o word_n by_o the_o same_o authority_n be_v equivocal_a and_o must_v be_v distinguish_v that_o the_o truth_n which_o a._n c._n will_v hide_v may_v appear_v thus_o then_o suppose_v a_o general_n council_n err_v in_o one_o point_n and_o not_o in_o another_o it_o do_v define_v both_o and_o equal_o by_o the_o same_o delegated_a authority_n which_o that_o council_n have_v receive_v from_o the_o catholic_a church_n but_o it_o do_v not_o define_v both_o and_o much_o less_o equal_o by_o the_o same_o authority_n of_o the_o scripture_n which_o must_v be_v the_o counsel_n rule_n as_o well_o as_o private_a man_n no_o nor_o by_o the_o same_o authority_n of_o the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n who_o do_v not_o intentional_o give_v they_o equal_a power_n to_o define_v truth_n and_o error_n for_o truth_n and_o i_o hope_v a._n c._n dare_v not_o say_v the_o scripture_n according_a to_o which_o all_o counsel_n that_o will_v uphold_v divine_a truth_n must_v determine_v do_v equal_o give_v either_o ground_n or_o power_n to_o define_v error_n and_o truth_n num._n 23_o to_o his_o former_a question_n a._n c._n add_v that_o if_o we_o leave_v this_o to_o 72._o be_v examine_v by_o any_o private_a man_n this_o examination_n not_o be_v infallible_a have_v need_n to_o be_v examine_v by_o another_o and_o this_o by_o another_o without_o end_n or_o ever_o come_v to_o infallible_a certainty_n necessary_o require_v in_o that_o one_o faith_n which_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o to_o that_o peace_n and_o unity_n which_o ought_v to_o be_v in_o the_o church_n will_v this_o inculcate_v the_o same_o thing_n never_o be_v leave_v i_o tell_v the_o jesuit_n 4._o before_o that_o i_o give_v no_o way_n to_o any_o private_a man_n to_o be_v judge_n of_o a_o general_n council_n and_o there_o also_o i_o show_v the_o way_n how_o a_o err_a council_n may_v be_v rectify_v and_o the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n either_o preserve_v or_o restore_v without_o lift_v any_o private_a spirit_n above_o a_o council_n and_o without_o this_o process_n in_o infinitum_fw-la which_o a._n c._n so_o much_o urge_v and_o which_o be_v so_o much_o decline_v in_o all_o 14._o science_n for_o as_o the_o understanding_n of_o a_o man_n must_v always_o have_v somewhat_o to_o rest_n upon_o so_o must_v his_o faith_n but_o a_o 15._o private_a man_n first_o for_o his_o own_o satisfaction_n and_o after_o for_o the_o church_n if_o he_o have_v just_a cause_n may_v consider_v of_o and_o examine_v by_o the_o priâ—_n judgement_n of_o discretion_n though_o not_o of_o power_n even_o the_o definition_n of_o a_o general_n council_n but_o a._n c._n conclude_v well_o that_o a_o infallible_a certainty_n be_v necessary_a for_o that_o one_o faith_n which_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o of_o that_o as_o i_o express_v 1._o before_o a_o most_o infallible_a certainty_n we_o have_v already_o in_o the_o scripture_n the_o creed_n and_o the_o four_o first_o general_n counsel_n to_o which_o for_o thing_n necessary_a and_o fundamental_a in_o the_o faith_n we_o need_v no_o assistance_n from_o other_o general_a counsel_n and_o some_o of_o your_o faith_n own_o very_o honest_a and_o very_a learned_a be_v of_o the_o same_o opinion_n with_o i_o and_o for_o the_o peace_n and_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n in_o thing_n absolute_o necessary_a we_o have_v the_o same_o infallible_a direction_n that_o we_o have_v for_o faith_n but_o in_o thing_n not_o necessary_a though_o they_o be_v divine_a truth_n also_o if_o about_o they_o christian_a man_n do_v differ_v it_o be_v no_o more_o than_o they_o have_v do_v more_o or_o less_o in_o all_o age_n of_o the_o church_n and_o they_o may_v differ_v and_o yet_o preserve_v the_o â—_o one_o necessary_a faith_n and_o 2._o charity_n too_o entire_a if_o they_o be_v so_o well_o mind_v i_o confess_v it_o be_v hearty_o to_o be_v wish_v that_o in_o these_o thing_n also_o man_n may_v be_v all_o of_o one_o mind_n and_o one_o judgement_n to_o which_o the_o apostle_n exhort_v 2._o 1_o cor._n 1._o but_o this_o can_v be_v hope_v for_o till_o the_o church_n be_v triumphant_a over_o all_o humane_a frailty_n which_o here_o hang_v thick_a and_o close_o about_o she_o the_o want_n both_o of_o unity_n and_o peace_n proceed_v too_o often_o even_o where_o religion_n be_v pretend_v from_o man_n and_o their_o humour_n rather_o than_o from_o thing_n and_o error_n to_o be_v find_v in_o they_o num._n 24_o and_o so_o a._n c._n tell_v i_o that_o it_o be_v not_o therefore_o as_o i_o will_v persuade_v 72._o the_o fault_n of_o counsel_n definition_n but_o the_o pride_n of_o such_o as_o will_v prefer_v and_o not_o submit_v their_o private_a judgement_n that_o lose_v and_o continue_v the_o loss_n of_o peace_n and_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o want_n of_o certainty_n in_o that_o one_o aforesaid_a soulsaving_a faith_n once_o again_o i_o be_o bold_a to_o tell_v a._n c._n there_o be_v no_o want_n of_o certainty_n most_o infallible_a certainty_n of_o that_o one_o soulsaving_a faith_n and_o if_o for_o other_o opinion_n which_o flutter_v about_o it_o there_o be_v a_o difference_n a_o dangerous_a difference_n as_o at_o this_o day_n there_o be_v yet_o
6._o v._n 20._o p._n 44._o 2_o tim._n cap._n 1._o v._n 14._o p._n 44._o c._n 6._o v._n 16._o p._n 72._o hebr._n cap._n 5._o v._n 12._o p._n 125._o c._n 9_o v._n 12._o p._n 199._o c._n 11._o v._n 6._o p._n 28_o 236._o c._n 11._o v._n 1._o p._n 56_o 68_o c._n 12._o v._n 9_o p._n 103._o c._n 13._o v._n 17._o p._n 168._o s._n james_n cap._n 1._o v._n 20._o p._n 99_o 1_o s._n peter_n cap._n 5._o v._n 3._o p._n 59_o 2_o s._n peter_n cap._n 1._o v._n 16._o p._n 73._o 1_o s._n john_n cap._n 4._o v._n 2._o p._n 28._o c._n 2._o v._n 19_o p._n 105._o s._n judas_n v._o 3._o p._n 46._o p._n 218._o apocal._n cap._n 12._o v._n 1._o p._n 136._o finis_fw-la finis_fw-la may_v 24._o 1622._o 1622._o one_o of_o these_o biasses_n be_v a_o aversion_n from_o all_o such_o truth_n as_o fit_v not_o our_o ends._n and_o aversus_fw-la à _fw-la veritatis_fw-la luce_fw-fr ab_fw-la hoc_fw-la luci_fw-la veritatis_fw-la adversus_fw-la fit_a etc._n etc._n s._n aug._n l._n 2._o cont_n adversarium_fw-la legis_fw-la &_o prophet_n and_o it_o be_v a_o easy_a transition_n for_o a_o man_n that_o be_v averse_a from_o to_o become_v adverse_a to_o the_o truth_n truth_n in_o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o reader_n reader_n ibid._n ibid._n these_o word_n be_v in_o my_o former_a epistle_n and_o a._n c._n check_n at_o they_o in_o defence_n of_o the_o jesuit_n and_o say_v that_o the_o jesuit_n do_v not_o at_o all_o so_o much_o as_o in_o speech_n and_o much_o less_o in_o paper_n publish_v this_o or_o either_o of_o the_o other_o two_o conference_n with_o dr._n white_a till_o he_o be_v force_v unto_o it_o by_o false_a report_n give_v out_o to_o his_o private_a disgrace_n and_o the_o prejudice_n of_o the_o catholic_a cause_n nor_o then_o do_v he_o spread_v paper_n abroad_o but_o only_o deliver_v a_o very_a few_o copy_n to_o special_a friend_n and_o this_o not_o with_o a_o intent_n to_o calumniate_v the_o bishop_n etc._n etc._n a._n c._n in_o his_o preface_n before_o his_o relation_n of_o this_o conference_n true_o i_o know_v of_o no_o report_n then_o give_v out_o to_o the_o prejudice_n of_o the_o jesuit_n either_o person_n or_o cause_n i_o be_v in_o a_o corner_n of_o the_o kingdom_n where_o i_o hear_v little_a but_o howsoever_o here_o be_v a_o most_o plain_a confession_n by_o a._n c._n of_o that_o which_o he_o struggle_v to_o deny_v he_o say_v he_o do_v not_o spread_v paper_n what_o then_o what_o why_o he_o do_v but_o deliver_v copy_n why_o but_o do_v not_o he_o that_o deliver_v copy_n for_o instance_n of_o a_o libel_n spread_v it_o yea_o but_o he_o deliver_v but_o a_o very_a few_o copy_n be_v it_o so_o i_o do_v not_o say_v how_o many_o he_o spread_v he_o confess_v the_o jesuit_n deliver_v some_o though_o very_o few_o and_o he_o that_o deliver_v any_o spread_v it_o abroad_o for_o what_o can_v he_o tell_v when_o the_o copy_n be_v once_o out_o of_o his_o power_n how_o many_o may_v copy_n they_o out_o and_o spread_v they_o far_o yea_o but_o he_o deliver_v they_o to_o special_a friend_n be_v it_o so_o too_o the_o more_o special_a friend_n they_o be_v to_o he_o the_o less_o indifferent_a will_v they_o be_v to_o i_o perhaps_o my_o more_o special_a enemy_n yea_o but_o all_o this_o be_v without_o a_o intent_n to_o calumniate_v i_o well_o be_v that_o so_o too_o but_o if_o i_o be_v calumniate_v thereby_o his_o intention_n will_v not_o help_v it_o and_o whether_o the_o copy_n which_o he_o deliver_v have_v not_o in_o they_o calumny_n against_o i_o i_o leave_v to_o the_o indifferent_a reader_n of_o this_o discourse_n to_o judge_v psal._n 50._o 19_o 20._o 20._o s._n aug._n s_o 〈…〉_z 63._o de_fw-fr diversis_fw-la c._n 10._o he_o speak_v of_o christ_n dispute_v in_o the_o temple_n with_o the_o elder_n of_o the_o jew_n and_o they_o hear_v christ_n the_o essential_a word_n of_o the_o father_n with_o admiration_n to_o astonishment_n yet_o believe_v he_o not_o s._n luk._n 2._o 47._o and_o the_o word_n then_o speak_v to_o thâ—â—_n by_o a_o mean_v they_o think_v not_o of_o namely_o per_fw-la fâ—lâ—um_fw-la deâ—_n in_o pvero_fw-la by_o the_o son_n of_o god_n himself_o under_o the_o veil_n of_o our_o human_a nature_n a._n c._n p._n 67._o 67._o preface_n to_o the_o relation_n of_o this_o conference_n by_o a._n c._n c._n and_o s._n aug._n be_v very_o full_a against_o the_o use_n of_o mala_n retid_v unlawful_a net_n and_o say_v the_o fisherman_n themselves_o have_v great_a cause_n to_o take_v heed_n of_o they_o s._n aug._n l._n de_fw-fr fid_n &_o oper._n c._n 17._o rom._n 3._o 8._o 1_o cor._n 9_o 16._o judg._n 5._o 23._o judg._n 17._o 6._o psal._n 118._o 12._o 12._o apum_fw-la similitudine_fw-la ardorem_fw-la notat_fw-la vesanum_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la enim_fw-la in_o illis_fw-la multum_fw-la roboris_fw-la sed_fw-la mira_fw-la excandescentia_fw-la calv_n in_o psal._n 118._o revel_v 22._o 12._o 12._o gen._n 15._o 1._o rom._n 8._o 18._o 18._o there_o be_v no_o other_o difference_n between_o we_o and_o rome_n than_o betwixt_o a_o church_n miserable_o corrupt_v and_o happy_o purge_v etc._n etc._n jos._n hall_n b._n of_o exon._n in_o his_o apologetical_a advertisement_n to_o the_o reader_n p._n 192._o approve_a by_o tho._n morton_n b._n then_o of_o cou._n &_o lich._n now_o of_o dâ—resm_n in_o the_o letter_n print_v by_o the_o b._n of_o exâ—ter_n in_o this_o treatise_n call_v the_o recoâ—scileâ—_n p._n 68_o and_o d._n field_n in_o this_o appen_n to_o the_o three_o part_n c._n 2._o where_o he_o cite_v calv._n to_o the_o saâ—â—t_a purpose_n l._n 4._o inst._n c._n 2._o â—_o 11._o 11._o s._n matth._n 15._o 14._o phil._n 2._o 21._o 21._o s._n aâ—g_n epist._n 48._o s._n jud._n 3._o 3._o 1_o s._n pet._n 3._o 15._o 15._o 1_o cor._n 10._o 15._o 15._o quis_fw-la non_fw-la sine_fw-la ullo_fw-la magistro_fw-la aut_fw-la interpret_v ex_fw-la se_fw-la facilè_fw-la cognoscat_fw-la etc._n etc._n novat_fw-la de_fw-fr trin._n c._n 23._o et_fw-la loquor_fw-la de_fw-fr mysterio_fw-la passionis_fw-la christ_n dijudicare_fw-la est_fw-la mensurare_fw-la etc._n etc._n unde_fw-la &_o mens_fw-la dicitur_fw-la à _fw-la metiendo_fw-la tho._n p._n 1._o q._n 79._o à _fw-la 9_o ad_fw-la 4._o to_o what_o end_n then_o be_v a_o mind_n and_o a_o understanding_n give_v a_o man_n if_o he_o may_v not_o apply_v it_o to_o measure_v truth_n et_fw-fr 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d i._o ab_fw-la to_o quod_fw-la considerate_a &_o discernit_fw-la quia_fw-la decernit_fw-la inter_fw-la verum_fw-la &_o salsum_fw-la damase_v l._n 2._o fid._n orth._n c._n 22._o and_o a._n c._n himself_o p._n 41._o deny_v not_o all_o judgement_n to_o private_a man_n but_o say_v they_o be_v not_o so_o to_o rely_v absolute_o upon_o their_o private_a judgement_n as_o to_o adventure_v salvation_n upon_o it_o alone_o or_o chief_o which_o no_o man_n will_v deny_v a._n c._n p._n 42._o 42._o veritas_fw-la uincat_fw-la necesse_fw-la est_fw-la sive_fw-la negantem_fw-la sive_fw-la conâ—itentem_fw-la etc._n etc._n s._n aug._n epist._n 174._o occultari_fw-la potest_fw-la ad_fw-la tempus_fw-la veritas_fw-la vinci_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la s._n aug._n in_o psal._n 61._o 61._o l._n 4._o de_fw-fr rom._n pont._n cap._n 4._o §._o 1._o romana_fw-la particularis_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la errare_fw-la in_o fide_fw-la fide_fw-la ibid_fw-la §._o 2._o 2._o navigare_fw-la audent_fw-la ad_fw-la petri_n cathedram_fw-la &_o ecclesiam_fw-la principalem_fw-la etc._n etc._n nec_fw-la cogitare_fw-la eos_fw-la esse_fw-la romanos_fw-la ad_fw-la quos_fw-la persidia_fw-la habere_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la accessum_fw-la cyprian_a l._n 1._o epist._n 3._o 3._o bin._n council_n tom._n 1._o p._n 152._o edit_fw-la paris_n 1636._o baron_fw-fr annal._n 253_o 254_o 255._o 255._o rom._n 1._o 8._o 8._o ego_fw-la tibi_fw-la istam_fw-la scelestam_fw-la scelus_fw-la linguam_fw-la abscindam_fw-la plaut_n amphit_n exit_fw-la hac_fw-la enim_fw-la parte_fw-la pudor_fw-la pugnat_fw-la illinc_fw-la petulantia_fw-la etc._n etc._n cic._n latuit_fw-la plebeio_fw-la tectus_fw-la amictu_fw-la omnis_fw-la honos_fw-la nullos_fw-la comitata_fw-la est_fw-la purpura_fw-la fasces_fw-la lucan_n l._n 2._o 2._o nec_fw-la cogitare_fw-la eos_fw-la esse_fw-la romanos_fw-la quorum_fw-la fides_fw-la apostolo_n praedicante_fw-la &c_n &c_n &c_n epist._n 67._o 67._o for_o so_o s._n cyprian_n begin_v his_o epistle_n to_o cornelius_n legi_fw-la literas_fw-la tuas_fw-la frater_fw-la etc._n etc._n and_o after_o sed_fw-la enim_fw-la lectâ_fw-la alia_fw-la epistolâ_fw-la tuâ_fw-la frater_fw-la etc._n etc._n s._n cypr._n l._n 1._o epist._n 3._o 3._o stephanus_n frater_fw-la noster_fw-la haereticorum_fw-la causam_fw-la contra_fw-la christianos_n &_o contra_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la dei_fw-la asserere_fw-la conatur_fw-la cypr._n ad_fw-la pompeium_n contra_fw-la epist._n stephani_fw-la edit_fw-la per_fw-la erasmum_fw-la basil_n p._n 327._o 327._o stephani_fw-la fratris_fw-la nostri_fw-la obstinatio_fw-la dura_fw-la ibid._n p._n 329._o and_o it_o will_v be_v mark_v by_o the_o jesuit_n and_o his_o a._n c._n that_o still_o it_o be_v stephani_fw-la fratris_fw-la nostri_fw-la and_o not_o capitis_fw-la or_o summi_fw-la
say_v express_o 15._o though_o israel_n transgress_v yet_o let_v not_o judah_n sin_n and_o s._n hierome_n ibid._n expound_v it_o of_o this_o very_a particular_a sin_n of_o heresy_n and_o error_n in_o religion_n nor_o can_v you_o say_v that_o 12._o israel_n from_o the_o time_n of_o the_o separation_n be_v not_o a_o a_o church_n for_o there_o be_v true_a prophet_n in_o it_o achaâ—o_fw-la elias_n and_o achabi_fw-la elizaeus_n and_o other_o and_o 18._o thousand_o that_o have_v not_o bow_v knee_n to_o 〈◊〉_d and_o there_o be_v salvation_n for_o these_o which_o can_v be_v in_o the_o ordinary_a way_n where_o there_o be_v no_o church_n and_o god_n threaten_v 17._o to_o cast_v they_o away_o to_o wander_v among_o the_o nation_n and_o be_v no_o congregation_n no_o church_n therefore_o he_o have_v not_o yet_o cast_v they_o away_o in_o non_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la into_o no-church_n and_o they_o be_v express_o call_v the_o people_n of_o the_o lord_n in_o 6._o 〈◊〉_d time_n and_o so_o continue_v long_o after_o nor_o can_v you_o plead_v that_o judan_n be_v your_o part_n and_o the_o ten_o tribe_n we_o as_o some_o of_o you_o do_v for_o if_o that_o be_v true_a you_o must_v grant_v that_o the_o multitude_n and_o great_a number_n be_v we_o and_o where_o then_o be_v multitude_n your_o â—â—merous_a note_n of_o the_o church_n for_o the_o ten_o tribe_n be_v more_o than_o the_o two_o but_o you_o can_v plead_v it_o for_o certain_o if_o any_o calf_n be_v set_v up_o they_o be_v in_o dan_n and_o in_o bethel_n they_o be_v not_o we_o num._n 2_o beside_o to_o reform_v what_o be_v amiss_o in_o doctrine_n or_o manner_n be_v as_o lawful_a for_o a_o particular_a church_n as_o it_o be_v to_o publish_v and_o promulgate_v any_o thing_n that_o be_v catholic_a in_o either_o and_o your_o question_n quo_fw-la judice_fw-la lie_v alike_o against_o both_o and_o yet_o i_o think_v it_o may_v be_v prove_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o that_o as_o a_o particular_a church_n do_v promulgate_v a_o orthodox_n truth_n which_o be_v not_o then_o catholike_o admit_v in_o the_o church_n namely_o the_o procession_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n from_o the_o son_n if_o she_o err_v in_o this_o fact_n confess_v her_o error_n if_o she_o err_v not_o why_o may_v not_o another_o particular_a church_n do_v as_o she_o do_v a_o learned_a school-man_n of_o you_o say_v she_o may_v 9_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n need_v not_o to_o call_v the_o grecian_n to_o agree_v upon_o this_o truth_n since_o the_o authority_n of_o publish_v it_o be_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n especial_o since_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o every_o particular_a church_n to_o promulgate_v that_o which_o be_v catholic_a nor_o can_v you_o say_v he_o mean_v catholic_a as_o fore-determine_a by_o the_o church_n in_o general_a for_o so_o this_o point_n when_o rome_n add_v filioque_fw-la to_o the_o creed_n of_o a_o general_n council_n be_v not_o and_o how_o the_o grecian_n be_v use_v in_o the_o after-councel_n such_o as_o it_o be_v of_o florence_n be_v not_o to_o trouble_v this_o dispute_n but_o catholic_a stand_v there_o for_o that_o which_o be_v so_o in_o the_o nature_n of_o it_o and_o fundamental_o nor_o can_v you_o just_o say_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v or_o may_v do_v this_o by_o the_o pope_n authority_n over_o the_o church_n for_o suppose_v he_o have_v that_o and_o that_o his_o sentence_n be_v infallible_a i_o say_v suppose_v both_o but_o i_o give_v neither_o yet_o neither_o his_o authority_n nor_o his_o infallibility_n can_v belong_v unto_o he_o as_o the_o particular_a bishop_n of_o that_o sâ—a_n but_o as_o the_o 3._o ministerial_a head_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n and_o you_o be_v all_o so_o lodge_v in_o this_o that_o truth_n bellarmine_n profess_v he_o can_v neither_o tell_v the_o year_n when_o nor_o the_o pope_n under_o who_o this_o addition_n be_v make_v a_o particular_a church_n then_o if_o you_o judge_v it_o by_o the_o school_n of_o rome_n or_o the_o practice_n of_o rome_n may_v publish_v any_o thing_n that_o be_v catholic_a where_o the_o whole_a church_n be_v silent_a and_o may_v therefore_o reform_v any_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o catholic_a where_o the_o whole_a church_n be_v negligent_a or_o will_v not_o num._n 3_o but_o you_o be_v as_o jealous_a of_o the_o honour_n of_o rome_n as_o 12._o capellus_n be_v who_o be_v angry_a with_o baronius_n about_o certain_a canon_n in_o the_o second_o milevitane_n council_n and_o say_v that_o he_o consider_v not_o of_o what_o consequence_n it_o be_v to_o grant_v to_o particular_a church_n the_o power_n of_o make_v canon_n of_o faith_n without_o consult_v the_o roman_a sea_n which_o as_o he_o say_v and_o you_o with_o he_o be_v never_o lawful_a nor_o ever_o do_v but_o suppose_v this_o be_v so_o my_o speech_n be_v not_o not_o consult_v but_o in_o case_n of_o neglect_v or_o refuse_v or_o when_o the_o difficulty_n of_o time_n and_o place_n or_o other_o circumstance_n be_v such_o that_o a_o 1._o general_n council_n can_v be_v call_v or_o not_o convene_v for_o that_o the_o roman_a sea_n must_v be_v consult_v with_o before_o any_o reformation_n be_v make_v first_o most_o certain_a it_o be_v capellus_n can_v never_o prove_v and_o second_o as_o certain_a that_o be_v it_o prove_v and_o practise_v we_o shall_v have_v no_o reformation_n for_o it_o will_v be_v long_o enough_o before_o the_o church_n shall_v be_v cure_v if_o that_o sea_n alone_o shall_v be_v her_o physician_n which_o in_o truth_n be_v her_o disease_n num._n 4_o now_o if_o for_o all_o this_o you_o will_v say_v still_o that_o a_o provincial_a council_n will_v not_o suffice_v but_o we_o shall_v have_v bear_v with_o thing_n till_o the_o time_n of_o a_o general_n council_n first_o it_o be_v true_a a_o general_n council_n free_a and_o entire_a will_v have_v be_v the_o best_a remedy_n and_o most_o able_a for_o a_o gangrene_n that_o have_v spread_v so_o far_o and_o eat_v so_o deep_a into_o christianity_n but_o what_o shall_v we_o have_v suffer_v this_o gangrene_n to_o endanger_v life_n and_o all_o rather_o than_o be_v cure_v in_o time_n by_o a_o physician_n of_o a_o weak_a knowledge_n and_o a_o less_o able_a hand_n second_o we_o live_v to_o see_v since_o if_o we_o have_v stay_v and_o expect_v a_o general_n council_n what_o manner_n of_o one_o we_o shall_v have_v have_v if_o any_o for_o that_o at_o trent_n be_v neither_o general_n nor_o free_a and_o for_o the_o error_n which_o rome_n have_v contract_v it_o confirm_v they_o it_o cure_v they_o not_o and_o yet_o i_o much_o doubt_v whether_o ever_o that_o council_n such_o as_o it_o be_v will_v have_v be_v call_v if_o some_o provincial_n and_o national_a synod_n under_o supreme_a and_o regal_a power_n have_v not_o first_o set_v upon_o this_o great_a work_n of_o reformation_n which_o i_o hearty_o wish_v have_v in_o all_o place_n be_v as_o orderly_a and_o happy_o pursue_v as_o the_o work_n be_v right_a christian_a and_o good_a in_o itself_o but_o humane_a frailty_n and_o the_o heat_n and_o distemper_n of_o man_n as_o well_o as_o the_o cunning_a of_o the_o devil_n will_v not_o suffer_v that_o for_o even_o in_o this_o sense_n also_o the_o wrath_n of_o man_n do_v not_o accomplish_v the_o will_n of_o god_n s._n james_n 1_o but_o i_o have_v learn_v not_o to_o 20._o reject_v the_o good_a which_o god_n have_v wrought_v for_o any_o evil_n which_o man_n may_v fasten_v to_o it_o num._n 5_o and_o yet_o if_o for_o all_o this_o you_o think_v it_o be_v better_a for_o we_o to_o be_v blind_a than_o to_o open_v our_o own_o eye_n let_v i_o tell_v you_o very_o grave_a and_o learned_a man_n and_o of_o your_o own_o party_n have_v teach_v i_o that_o when_o the_o universal_a church_n will_v not_o or_o for_o the_o iniquity_n of_o the_o time_n can_v obtain_v and_o settle_v a_o free_a general_a council_n it_o be_v lawful_a nay_o sometime_o necessary_a to_o reform_v gross_a abuse_n by_o a_o national_a or_o a_o provincial_n for_o beside_o alb._n magnus_n who_o i_o quote_v 2._o before_o gerson_n the_o learned_a and_o devout_a chancellor_n of_o paris_n tell_v we_o plain_o f._n that_o he_o will_v not_o deny_v but_o that_o the_o church_n may_v be_v reform_v by_o part_n and_o that_o this_o be_v necessary_a and_o that_o to_o effect_v it_o provincial_a counsel_n may_v suffice_v and_o in_o some_o thing_n diocesan_n and_o again_o b._n either_o you_o shall_v reform_v all_o estate_n of_o the_o church_n in_o a_o general_n council_n or_o command_v they_o to_o be_v reform_v in_o provincial_a counsel_n now_o gerson_n live_v about_o two_o hundred_o year_n since_o but_o this_o right_n of_o provincial_a synod_n that_o they_o may_v decree_v in_o cause_n of_o faith_n and_o in_o case_n of_o reformation_n where_o corruption_n have_v creep_v into_o the_o sacrament_n of_o christ_n be_v practise_v much_o